Since webny99 made a thread on cities with a great freeway setup, I decided to make a thread about cities with awful freeway setups.
So what are the cities with the shittiest freeway setup?
i feel like chicago could use 2 more east west interstates and one parallel route in between 90/90 and 294. Milwaukee's is shitty
Probably Philadelphia is up there. 1 major route with massive design issues from the west is not a good idea.
Nexus 6P
Chicago :ded:
London, UK.
Tucson is definitely one of them, and unfortunately Tucson area residents keep on voting down road bonds.
Washington. There are only two freeways within the northern half-ish of the area encircled by the Beltway, and neither of them are truck-friendly. As a result, the surface arterials in Montgomery and PG counties are consistently jam-packed.
Boston. Granted you have 10 and 30 mile radius half belts, but there's only one expressway in from the west, and only one of the other expressways that connects to the 10 mile belt actually takes you directly into the city. Plus, there's only one expressway directly through downtown and a street grid without much rhyme or reason.
Quote from: sbeaver44 on May 19, 2017, 03:59:55 PM
Probably Philadelphia is up there. 1 major route with massive design issues from the west is not a good idea.
Nexus 6P
Trenton NJ. Pretty bad. State Capitol with two major connections, one is a substandard freeway, the other ceases to be a freeway once it enters the city proper.
Philadelphia has one saving grace, i276 serves as a thru traffic bypass.
Memphis TN: Just...the mess that is 240. A bypass serving as the mainline interstate due to cancelation of the through route two bridges, needs a third one to the north to bypass town for 40 through traffic.
Atlanta GA: All non local delivery trucks must use I-285. Meaning that trucks are forced into commuter traffic even if 285 is jammed.
Birmingham AL, bypass route exists, but if you have to connect to i-22 you have to use the downtown viaduct on 20/65
Jackson MS: i-220 is nearly worthless unless you're going to the west or to the industrial area along it. 55/20 merge weirdly.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on May 19, 2017, 04:55:07 PM
Tucson is definitely one of them, and unfortunately Tucson area residents keep on voting down road bonds.
The problem is that it isn't all that difficult to get around Tucson even with just I-10 and I-19. The metro area needs to grow a whole lot more for surface traffic to become a huge issue.
My vote would go to Miami which largely consists of toll roads and geographic constraints. There is only so much that you can do when your metro area is only 10-15 miles wide with the Everglades and the Atlantic Ocean as obstructions. Pretty much every freeway, toll road, or even surface route is an exercise in sadism during rush hour. I deliberately took a surface route just today on 997 just to avoid the city, even though it crawled along at 20 MPH most of the way....it can be that bad on the limited access roads.
Here my cities of note:
DC. There's no main through route running through downtown, unless you count I-695 but that's more of a spur route off the Capital Beltway. And it's a pain in the butt trying to enter the city from the north.
Springfield MA. Substandard interchanges, travel limited to surface streets entering from the SE (that means MA 83. Boston Rd. is always cluttered
Quote from: sbeaver44 on May 19, 2017, 03:59:55 PM
Probably Philadelphia is up there. 1 major route with massive design issues from the west is not a good idea.
In addition: I-95 and I-76 are missing some moves between each other. I-676 doesn't directly connect with itself going from PA to NJ and vice versa. Half the ramps to/from 676 and 76 are hairpin turns. I-95 near the airport is a wonderful, 4 lane per direction highway, but with some horrendous ramp lane configurations with the airport (merging areas without accel lanes, etc). Heck, I-295 never enters PA at all (we're talking the last 50 years here) and really isn't considered much of a loop around Philly, to the point where it's questionable if it even deserved the 295 designation.
Hartford
Substandard interchange between the two primary interstates, an incomplete beltway, and one of the primary interstates in dire need of reconstruction.
Boston. Not constructing 95 through Boston and 695 has really hurt. Now our roads are trafficked 24/7.
Key West.
Vancouver, BC. One east/west bypass freeway, no north/south freeway whatsoever. There are some freeways, like the 91, but most don't seem to do a whole lot to connect far-flung places (they act more like feeder freeways). The 99 is the closest thing to a north/south freeway, but it ends just outside of Richmond, with a bunch more surface street driving to reach downtown.
Most of the traffic gets around on surface streets, which are wide but covered in signals. All told though, the city has flourished without freeways. The suburbs could do with some better connections, but the city proper is best without any freeways. Downtown already has too many cars. It's best not to make it easier to access. Focus should be on public transit and cycling.
Corbin City, NJ
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on May 19, 2017, 09:22:58 PM
Springfield MA. Substandard interchanges, travel limited to surface streets entering from the SE (that means MA 83. Boston Rd. is always cluttered
There is nothing southeast of Springfield. Don't see that as a major issue.
Frankly, I thought the biggest problem with Springfield is that I-91 has seemed to be constantly under construction since that useless ramp reversal project. Of course, Springfield was happy to have the viaduct when the Connecticut River was an industrial sewer. Trying to rejuvenate the waterfront has still been tricky despite the new Hall of Fame (and the associated, massive corruption of the Albano administration).
Anyway, I place my chip on Philly, if only because the connection to NYC is so idiotic. The lack of direct freeway-to-freeway connections from New Jersey is a decades-long embarrassment.
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on May 19, 2017, 09:36:40 PM
Hartford
Substandard interchange between the two primary interstates
My word, you must have forgotten what it was like before the flyover! I remember having to wait in that horrendous backup to go from I-84 EB to I-91 NB (IIRC), where you had to take surface streets!
Because of the improvements, Hartford's system doesn't seem that bad to me.
Quote from: Rothman on May 19, 2017, 11:05:06 PM
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on May 19, 2017, 09:36:40 PM
Hartford
Substandard interchange between the two primary interstates
My word, you must have forgotten what it was like before the flyover! I remember having to wait in that horrendous backup to go from I-84 EB to I-91 NB (IIRC), where you had to take surface streets!
Because of the improvements, Hartford's system doesn't seem that bad to me.
Oh, that dreaded exit onto Morgan St S where you'd have to merge with traffic, wait out a loooong light, then turn right onto Columbus Blvd before turning onto I-91 North where you had to fight crossing traffic trying to get from I-91 North to Morgan St N to catch the I-84 West ramp. Legend has it that the owner of G. Fox department store refused to let an interchange be built for fear of losing business. Made going to Bradley for a morning flight an absolute nightmare unless you went through before 7 AM.
Portland, Oregon, a million times over. The whole road grid for the metro area is, in and of itself, terrible. The freeways were largely crap already, but all the development that's gotten thrown in during just the past three years has pushed all the road infrastructure past its breaking point. The local politicians don't realize and/or don't care that their solutions to the "housing crisis" that they created (largely via corporate welfare for Intel, Nike, and developers; Metro's mere existence; and general self-aggrandization) is going to cause a massive infrastructure crisis, that they don't have the intelligence or money to solve.
- The I-405/US-26 interchange (where the Vista Ridge Tunnel comes in) is backed up at just about any time of day. The ramps to get on to I-405 from US-26 are just a single lane, really short, and dump out into a weaving situation. I-405 itself is a mere two to three lanes per direction for most of its length.
- OR-217, the poster child for substandard design, and the only north-south freeway that really serves Washington County--where Nike HQ is located, and Intel has four campuses. It's two lanes per direction for most of its length, has severe weaving issues, and its interchange with I-5 consists of a badly-built flyover ramp, and two signalized intersections.
- I-5 through the Rose Quarter--right through the area with the Moda Center, and between I-84 and the northern terminus of I-405--is largely only two lanes per direction, also with weaving galore. (Sensing a theme here?)
- Left exits and general bizarre design everywhere--the fast lanes on I-84 westbound coming into the metro area dump onto I-205 northbound, headed toward the airport, which usually causes those fast lanes to suddenly grind to a halt. Additionally, the exit off I-5 southbound onto I-405 northbound at the south end of the Marquam Bridge also is a big ol' left exit. It's often used by people coming from I-84, trying to get to US-26 and the west side, meaning . . . you guessed it . . . heavy-duty weaving.
- There's also the fact that I-5, despite crossing under the Ross Island Bridge (which carries US-26 over to the east side, where it become Powell Blvd) has no direct access. Instead, there's the Ross Island Maze.
- Aside from very short stretches and auxiliary lanes for exits/entrances, there are very few spots that exceed three lanes per direction, all in a metro area of over 3 million.
- The most recent limited access roadway built--the Sunrise Corridor (part of OR-224)--took over 30 years from planning to completion. It's two miles in length, two lanes per direction, and only has a 50mph speed limit at the highest (there's a surprisingly long 35mph zone near the OR-212 intersection). Its termini are, of course, signalized intersections.
- If we start discussing surface streets, there are very few out there with more than two lanes per direction for any appreciable length, so there's very little that the surface streets can absorb to help relieve the crappy freeways
Pittsburgh's definitely sucks. But not much can be done about that
How about Manhattan? Except for all the way up in Washington Heights, there are no east/west highways. The only ways to get across the island are to either take the local streets or circumnavigate it on the FDR Drive and NY 9A.
Quote from: I-90 on May 19, 2017, 04:36:04 PM
Chicago :ded:
More of a capacity issue than design.
I'd go with Milwaukee and Philly
Quote from: Rothman on May 19, 2017, 11:05:06 PM
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on May 19, 2017, 09:36:40 PM
Hartford
Substandard interchange between the two primary interstates
My word, you must have forgotten what it was like before the flyover! I remember having to wait in that horrendous backup to go from I-84 EB to I-91 NB (IIRC), where you had to take surface streets!
Because of the improvements, Hartford's system doesn't seem that bad to me.
I live near Bradley. My local office location is in Farmington, near the Bristol line.
Mercifully, I got telecommuting privileges.
The downtown situation is indeed somewhat better than it used to be, in much the same way that the sixth layer of hell is somewhat better than the seventh.
In fairness, I guess it's not so much the suckage of the freeway system as it is the limitations of the road network in general.
Considering the decentralized nature of the metro area, the age of many of the communities involved, and topography, some of those limitations aren't too surprising. But when you compare Hartford to more-recently developed metro areas, there is a distinct lack of choice when plotting itineraries within the Hartford metro as compared to newer metros.
Quote from: dgolub on May 20, 2017, 09:08:18 AM
How about Manhattan? Except for all the way up in Washington Heights, there are no east/west highways. The only ways to get across the island are to either take the local streets or circumnavigate it on the FDR Drive and NY 9A.
Other than tunneling across Midtown, there really aren't any options for any east-west highway because of density issues.
Pittsburgh's freeways are garbage 376 over the Monongahela river is just fucked up, along with most of the bizarre interchanges along the route
San Francisco city proper has its limits. Given population density and parkland have cut off virtually every path to the Golden Gate Bridge, the only ways are on 19th Ave/Park-Presidio (SR 1) and Van Ness Ave/Lombard/Doyle Dr (US-101). The freeways themselves are chock full of traffic everywhere you turn because of the single path.
Milwaukee only really seems to be missing an e-w freeway in the northern part of the city. Everything else is a fixable design/capacity issue as far as I'm concerned.
St. Louis is shitty because they didn't put in enough bridges over the Mississippi back in the day.
Indy is missing a 'spoke' inside its beltline; that's kind of shitty. Cincy is missing one, too, though it's less glaring.
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on May 19, 2017, 04:50:25 PMLondon, UK.
Outside of South Asia and Sub-saharan Africa, is there a sparser freeway network in an urban area with more than 2 million? And London has over 10 million!
With all of these examples, I guess I can throw Buffalo in even though it's a dying city with a decent road network.
50-60 years ago in its heydey, they should've built the Lancaster Expressway from where I-190 joins I-90. This would solve some traffic issues and shorten the drive from the eastern suburbs.
They should've finished the outer beltway they started as well. Today it exists in the form of the Milestrip and Lasalle Expressways, and I doubt either will (or can) be extended anytime soon.
Quote from: dgolub on May 20, 2017, 09:08:18 AM
How about Manhattan? Except for all the way up in Washington Heights, there are no east/west highways. The only ways to get across the island are to either take the local streets or circumnavigate it on the FDR Drive and NY 9A.
Well you can blame your friend Jane Jacobs for that.
Quote from: Tarkus on May 20, 2017, 06:40:35 AM
Portland, Oregon, a million times over. The whole road grid for the metro area is, in and of itself, terrible. The freeways were largely crap already, but all the development that's gotten thrown in during just the past three years has pushed all the road infrastructure past its breaking point. The local politicians don't realize and/or don't care that their solutions to the "housing crisis" that they created (largely via corporate welfare for Intel, Nike, and developers; Metro's mere existence; and general self-aggrandization) is going to cause a massive infrastructure crisis, that they don't have the intelligence or money to solve.
- The I-405/US-26 interchange (where the Vista Ridge Tunnel comes in) is backed up at just about any time of day. The ramps to get on to I-405 from US-26 are just a single lane, really short, and dump out into a weaving situation. I-405 itself is a mere two to three lanes per direction for most of its length.
- OR-217, the poster child for substandard design, and the only north-south freeway that really serves Washington County--where Nike HQ is located, and Intel has four campuses. It's two lanes per direction for most of its length, has severe weaving issues, and its interchange with I-5 consists of a badly-built flyover ramp, and two signalized intersections.
- I-5 through the Rose Quarter--right through the area with the Moda Center, and between I-84 and the northern terminus of I-405--is largely only two lanes per direction, also with weaving galore. (Sensing a theme here?)
- Left exits and general bizarre design everywhere--the fast lanes on I-84 westbound coming into the metro area dump onto I-205 northbound, headed toward the airport, which usually causes those fast lanes to suddenly grind to a halt. Additionally, the exit off I-5 southbound onto I-405 northbound at the south end of the Marquam Bridge also is a big ol' left exit. It's often used by people coming from I-84, trying to get to US-26 and the west side, meaning . . . you guessed it . . . heavy-duty weaving.
- There's also the fact that I-5, despite crossing under the Ross Island Bridge (which carries US-26 over to the east side, where it become Powell Blvd) has no direct access. Instead, there's the Ross Island Maze.
- Aside from very short stretches and auxiliary lanes for exits/entrances, there are very few spots that exceed three lanes per direction, all in a metro area of over 3 million.
- The most recent limited access roadway built--the Sunrise Corridor (part of OR-224)--took over 30 years from planning to completion. It's two miles in length, two lanes per direction, and only has a 50mph speed limit at the highest (there's a surprisingly long 35mph zone near the OR-212 intersection). Its termini are, of course, signalized intersections.
- If we start discussing surface streets, there are very few out there with more than two lanes per direction for any appreciable length, so there's very little that the surface streets can absorb to help relieve the crappy freeways
When both PDX Metro government, the city planning agency, and much of ODOT, including the district encompassing Metro, are dominated by anti-car/anti-mobility officials and advisors, capacity increases on regional freeways (and even surface facilities) are very hard to come by. The prevailing attitude is "starve the beast" -- regardless of the ancillary effects on commerce and commuting. Like most metro areas, greater Portland
has grown their public-transit capabilities, but the traffic issues persist pretty much unabated. The area continues to grow; the level of growth has outstripped the aggregate ridership of public transit -- so one can assume that more folks moving to the area are bringing their cars & trucks with them and decidedly
not "checking them at the door", so to speak. Despite all efforts to the contrary, I'd venture a guess that a good 90-95% of the region remains dependent upon automotive traffic to sustain economic viability. Even with stalled capacity increases, people keep on coming -- and bringing their own preferences with them. There may be a few starry-eyed millennials among them with little ambition beyond living in a loft over a Starbuck's -- but they're certainly not anywhere near a working plurality, much less a majority -- even in PDX! The freeway system may be a congested mess well on the way to FUBAR status -- but people will continue to slog through the jams anyway.
Quote from: english si on May 20, 2017, 06:00:33 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on May 19, 2017, 04:50:25 PMLondon, UK.
Outside of South Asia and Sub-saharan Africa, is there a sparser freeway network in an urban area with more than 2 million? And London has over 10 million!
I dunno. London and Chicago roughly the same area and pop/density. London roads move decently (or theyre workin on em), Chicago pretty much a mess most days. Airports? Ask again later. Freight rail and seaport? Not sure. Commuter trains similar? Kinda. Old London electrics seem like they do 100 mph as they pass stations. HSR (or airport rail) connections, not close. CTA and Tube? One is a tenth of the other. Bus systems? Both pretty darn good. Just :ded:
Agreed with Chicago, but what about Baltimore and Atlanta? The former is listed because of the fact that I-70 and I-83 were never built all the way to I-95, and I-170 was never built beyond the small stub west of downtown; the latter because of the many freeways (I-420, I-485 and I-675) that might've helped ease the traffic flow on I-20 and the I-75/I-85 Downtown Connector.
Seattle. Just one N-S freeway within Seattle, and it narrows down to 2 lanes each way in the middle of downtown and features frequent left entrances/exits with heavy weave movements.
Port St. Lucie.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 20, 2017, 03:28:47 PM
Milwaukee only really seems to be missing an e-w freeway in the northern part of the city. Everything else is a fixable design/capacity issue as far as I'm concerned.
Search up park east freeway
Quote from: The Nature Boy on May 20, 2017, 10:21:24 AM
Quote from: dgolub on May 20, 2017, 09:08:18 AM
How about Manhattan? Except for all the way up in Washington Heights, there are no east/west highways. The only ways to get across the island are to either take the local streets or circumnavigate it on the FDR Drive and NY 9A.
Other than tunneling across Midtown, there really aren't any options for any east-west highway because of density issues.
Yes, that would be an excellent idea. Or alternatively, convert a couple of the Midtown cross streets into one-way Jersey freeways with no exits. They could even have bus lanes to provide a way to get across by bus without stopping for any traffic lights.
Quote from: I-90 on May 23, 2017, 08:11:01 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 20, 2017, 03:28:47 PM
Milwaukee only really seems to be missing an e-w freeway in the northern part of the city. Everything else is a fixable design/capacity issue as far as I'm concerned.
Search up park east freeway
The Park East was a useless waste of space. Good riddance.
The Park West Freeway would have been the one with some merit if it met up with the FdL Freeway. But I don't think it would have been worth it to slash through so much neighborhood.
The one canceled MKE freeway I sometimes lament is the Bay Freeway; a once-proposed east-west freeway that would have linked I-43 and WI 145 between Capitol and Hampton.
Quote from: dgolub on May 23, 2017, 08:53:38 AM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on May 20, 2017, 10:21:24 AM
Quote from: dgolub on May 20, 2017, 09:08:18 AM
How about Manhattan? Except for all the way up in Washington Heights, there are no east/west highways. The only ways to get across the island are to either take the local streets or circumnavigate it on the FDR Drive and NY 9A.
Other than tunneling across Midtown, there really aren't any options for any east-west highway because of density issues.
Yes, that would be an excellent idea. Or alternatively, convert a couple of the Midtown cross streets into one-way Jersey freeways with no exits. They could even have bus lanes to provide a way to get across by bus without stopping for any traffic lights.
Who says we can't tear down a few buildings?
Pasadena, California, thanks to the gap in the 710.
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on May 20, 2017, 10:03:08 AM
Quote from: Rothman on May 19, 2017, 11:05:06 PM
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on May 19, 2017, 09:36:40 PM
Hartford
Substandard interchange between the two primary interstates
My word, you must have forgotten what it was like before the flyover! I remember having to wait in that horrendous backup to go from I-84 EB to I-91 NB (IIRC), where you had to take surface streets!
Because of the improvements, Hartford's system doesn't seem that bad to me.
I live near Bradley. My local office location is in Farmington, near the Bristol line.
Mercifully, I got telecommuting privileges.
The downtown situation is indeed somewhat better than it used to be, in much the same way that the sixth layer of hell is somewhat better than the seventh.
In fairness, I guess it's not so much the suckage of the freeway system as it is the limitations of the road network in general.
Considering the decentralized nature of the metro area, the age of many of the communities involved, and topography, some of those limitations aren't too surprising. But when you compare Hartford to more-recently developed metro areas, there is a distinct lack of choice when plotting itineraries within the Hartford metro as compared to newer metros.
I do think they should expand the lanes in the interchange.
Quote from: dgolub on May 20, 2017, 09:08:18 AM
How about Manhattan? Except for all the way up in Washington Heights, there are no east/west highways. The only ways to get across the island are to either take the local streets or circumnavigate it on the FDR Drive and NY 9A.
And NY 9A's not even limited-access until you get to Riverside Park. I would've mentioned New York City in general, but it's not hard to understand why you picked the primary borough of the city.
Bakersfield, CA. Served directly really only by CAL 99, though CAL 58 helps out on the south side of the city. It's a city of almost 350,000 people and is not served by an Interstate.
I don't think Vancouver needs any more freeways in the city itself, but it does need better connectivity around the suburbs. The SFPR isn't a freeway, and even if it was, it doesn't have freeway/freeway interchanges with BC 91 and TCH 1. The southern suburbs have better connectivity to the US than they do to even the rest of the metro area.
Quote from: vdeane on May 27, 2017, 10:05:24 PM
I don't think Vancouver needs any more freeways in the city itself, but it does need better connectivity around the suburbs. The SFPR isn't a freeway, and even if it was, it doesn't have freeway/freeway interchanges with BC 91 and TCH 1. The southern suburbs have better connectivity to the US than they do to even the rest of the metro area.
The SFPR isn't a full-fledged, Ontario-style freeway. But it does its job well enough. The best you could do between the 91 and the SFPR would be a couple of trumpets, and the Parclo between the SFPR and Hwy 1 is free-flow in the most important direction (EB Hwy 17 to EB Hwy 1). Room for improvement? Definitely. But it's a hell of a lot better than its predecessor: trying to get through Langley and Surrey via surface streets.
Honestly, most of the traffic that I hit in Vancouver is in the city, not in the suburbs. The suburbs are actually pretty well connected. Most arterial roads have two lanes each direction, with excellent signalisation. The vast majority of Vancouver freeways interchanges are very well designed (except some like Hwy 1 & Dollarton Hwy, though the fix there is easy). I think upgrading the SFPR to full-freeway would be the only major thing I'd do (besides replacement of the Massey Tunnel and the Pattullo Bridge, though both are on the table already).
Salt Lake City area. There is no east-west freeway south of 201, which means that all the surface roads (especially 90th, 106th, 114th South) get bad congestion every rush hour. Both of the freeway projects, Bangerter and MVC, are north-south routes, which might help the congestion on the surface roads but will just make 201 and 80 even worse than they already are.
Quote from: dgolub on May 23, 2017, 08:53:38 AM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on May 20, 2017, 10:21:24 AM
Quote from: dgolub on May 20, 2017, 09:08:18 AM
How about Manhattan? Except for all the way up in Washington Heights, there are no east/west highways. The only ways to get across the island are to either take the local streets or circumnavigate it on the FDR Drive and NY 9A.
Other than tunneling across Midtown, there really aren't any options for any east-west highway because of density issues.
Yes, that would be an excellent idea. Or alternatively, convert a couple of the Midtown cross streets into one-way Jersey freeways with no exits. They could even have bus lanes to provide a way to get across by bus without stopping for any traffic lights.
Venturing into Fictional Highway territory here, but I sure wish PA would use Jersey expressways more than the few exisiting ones (PA 61, US 11/15). IMO it is much more pleasant to drive than traffic lights every 200 feet, even if it means I have to go 1/4 mile past my destination to make a turn and come back.
Nexus 6P
Quote from: dgolub on May 20, 2017, 09:08:18 AM
How about Manhattan? Except for all the way up in Washington Heights, there are no east/west highways. The only ways to get across the island are to either take the local streets or circumnavigate it on the FDR Drive and NY 9A.
Even N-S since Miller's Westside Highway got demolished and never rebuilt as its Westway replacement never got steam to move forward. Manhattan is pretty much streets that are clogged to the max and crosstown streets are the worse with double and triple parking and of course delivery vehicles allowing very little room on those very narrow streets. At least the uptown and downtown avenues are wide with many through lanes, but still have their quirks with too damn many cars on them.
Any city that has every or almost every freeway dead end upon reaching downtown. San Francisco, Baltimore, DC and New York City get my votes. HM to Philadelphia, Pittsburgh and Boston.
Quote from: tribar on May 30, 2017, 11:46:21 AM
Any city that has every or almost every freeway dead end upon reaching downtown. San Francisco, Baltimore, DC and New York City get my votes. HM to Philadelphia, Pittsburgh and Boston.
Boston is like that because of the Atlantic Ocean.
O K C!! I hate what odor did, which was selling vital right of way too developers, or, not buying it in the first place!! Why couldn't you be like Texas, and make a road with a super wide meadean. Then, no problem.
Washington, DC! It's been nearly 30 years since I lived there, but I still can't forget I-395 dumping out onto New York Avenue or the old I-66 ramps into the dirt at M Street & Rock Creek Parkway...
Quote from: mhking on May 30, 2017, 02:37:10 PM
Washington, DC! It's been nearly 30 years since I lived there, but I still can't forget I-395 dumping out onto New York Avenue or the old I-66 ramps into the dirt at M Street & Rock Creek Parkway...
How fitting, per a recent discussion on another thread...
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 22, 2017, 09:45:24 PM
I-66 in DC. Either you cut essentially a U-turn onto 27 Street or you go up an ignominious single-lane ramp to either the Whitehurst Freeway or a stub end of L Street NW.
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on May 22, 2017, 10:16:11 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 22, 2017, 09:45:24 PM
I-66 in DC. Either you cut essentially a U-turn onto 27 Street or you go up an ignominious single-lane ramp to either the Whitehurst Freeway or a stub end of L Street NW.
I'd cast my lot with I-395...mandatory double right-turn lanes onto outbound NY Avenue.
Quote from: MCRoads on May 30, 2017, 02:11:30 PM
O K C!! I hate what odor did, which was selling vital right of way too developers, or, not buying it in the first place!! Why couldn't you be like Texas, and make a road with a super wide meadean. Then, no problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK_0jXPuIr0
Fayetteville/Bentonville/Springdale, AR.
Quote from: MCRoads on May 30, 2017, 02:11:30 PM
O K C!! I hate what odor did, which was selling vital right of way too developers, or, not buying it in the first place!! Why couldn't you be like Texas, and make a road with a super wide meadean. Then, no problem.
You could argue that NW Expressway and OK-9 should both be freeways, but other than that, the OKC freeway system is reasonably complete and functions well.
the only thing indy is missing is 69 down to the north split downtown. the current configuration of interstates downtown is stupid.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 30, 2017, 01:54:47 PM
Boston is like that because of the Atlantic Ocean.
The Atlantic Ocean isn't what detours I-95 onto MA 128.
Orlando. There's only one freeway. Everything else is a toll road.
Quote from: RG407 on June 11, 2017, 11:37:03 PM
Orlando. There's only one freeway. Everything else is a toll road.
I've always thought that the tolls were what made Florida freeways especially good. They keep the roads from getting crazy congested, and they help pay for maintenance.
Quote from: jakeroot on June 11, 2017, 11:46:21 PM
Quote from: RG407 on June 11, 2017, 11:37:03 PM
Orlando. There's only one freeway. Everything else is a toll road.
I've always thought that the tolls were what made Florida freeways especially good. They keep the roads from getting crazy congested, and they help pay for maintenance.
Tolls can become traffic traps. There have been many traffic jams thanks to tolls.
Quote from: JJBers on June 12, 2017, 08:27:10 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on June 11, 2017, 11:46:21 PM
Quote from: RG407 on June 11, 2017, 11:37:03 PM
Orlando. There's only one freeway. Everything else is a toll road.
I've always thought that the tolls were what made Florida freeways especially good. They keep the roads from getting crazy congested, and they help pay for maintenance.
Tolls can become traffic traps. There have been many traffic jams thanks to tolls.
I suppose if a tollbooth is involved, that's pretty much a guaranteed road block. But toll booths are so two-thousand and late!
How well do the Sunpass-/Licence plate- only roads operate in comparison?
Quote from: jakeroot on June 12, 2017, 11:04:54 PM
Quote from: JJBers on June 12, 2017, 08:27:10 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on June 11, 2017, 11:46:21 PM
Quote from: RG407 on June 11, 2017, 11:37:03 PM
Orlando. There's only one freeway. Everything else is a toll road.
I've always thought that the tolls were what made Florida freeways especially good. They keep the roads from getting crazy congested, and they help pay for maintenance.
Tolls can become traffic traps. There have been many traffic jams thanks to tolls.
I suppose if a tollbooth is involved, that's pretty much a guaranteed road block. But toll booths are so two-thousand and late!
How well do the Sunpass-/Licence plate- only roads operate in comparison?
Extremely favorably.... I even did a stub on the Suncoast Parkway/FL 589 on the Southeast board when I was on my Southeast trip, it made a huge difference having plate readers even though the project is far from done. The 528 was by far the worst Tollroad in Orlando for backups with the plaza at OIA still requiring even Sunpass cars to pass through the same gantry the cash people are using. 408, 417, and 429 were always pretty freely flowing....the Turnpike had problems sometimes with occasional backups southbound that were coming off the 408.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 12, 2017, 11:25:12 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on June 12, 2017, 11:04:54 PM
Quote from: JJBers on June 12, 2017, 08:27:10 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on June 11, 2017, 11:46:21 PM
Quote from: RG407 on June 11, 2017, 11:37:03 PM
Orlando. There's only one freeway. Everything else is a toll road.
I've always thought that the tolls were what made Florida freeways especially good. They keep the roads from getting crazy congested, and they help pay for maintenance.
Tolls can become traffic traps. There have been many traffic jams thanks to tolls.
I suppose if a tollbooth is involved, that's pretty much a guaranteed road block. But toll booths are so two-thousand and late!
How well do the Sunpass-/Licence plate- only roads operate in comparison?
Extremely favorably.... I even did a stub on the Suncoast Parkway/FL 589 on the Southeast board when I was on my Southeast trip, it made a huge difference having plate readers even though the project is far from done. The 528 was by far the worst Tollroad in Orlando for backups with the plaza at OIA still requiring even Sunpass cars to pass through the same gantry the cash people are using. 408, 417, and 429 were always pretty freely flowing....the Turnpike had problems sometimes with occasional backups southbound that were coming off the 408.
Holy shit! I had no idea they caused that much traffic. Of all the toll roads in Washington and BC, only one even
permits cash payments: the Tacoma Narrows. But even that has a licence plate/toll tag option.
Around here, tolls have been introduced as a way to curb congestion (acting as a form of congestion charge -- tolls increase as the roads get busier).
Quote from: jakeroot on June 12, 2017, 11:31:03 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 12, 2017, 11:25:12 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on June 12, 2017, 11:04:54 PM
Quote from: JJBers on June 12, 2017, 08:27:10 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on June 11, 2017, 11:46:21 PM
Quote from: RG407 on June 11, 2017, 11:37:03 PM
Orlando. There's only one freeway. Everything else is a toll road.
I've always thought that the tolls were what made Florida freeways especially good. They keep the roads from getting crazy congested, and they help pay for maintenance.
Tolls can become traffic traps. There have been many traffic jams thanks to tolls.
I suppose if a tollbooth is involved, that's pretty much a guaranteed road block. But toll booths are so two-thousand and late!
How well do the Sunpass-/Licence plate- only roads operate in comparison?
Extremely favorably.... I even did a stub on the Suncoast Parkway/FL 589 on the Southeast board when I was on my Southeast trip, it made a huge difference having plate readers even though the project is far from done. The 528 was by far the worst Tollroad in Orlando for backups with the plaza at OIA still requiring even Sunpass cars to pass through the same gantry the cash people are using. 408, 417, and 429 were always pretty freely flowing....the Turnpike had problems sometimes with occasional backups southbound that were coming off the 408.
Holy shit! I had no idea they caused that much traffic. Of all the toll roads in Washington and BC, only one even permits cash payments: the Tacoma Narrows. But even that has a licence plate/toll tag option.
Around here, tolls have been introduced as a way to curb congestion (acting as a form of congestion charge -- tolls increase as the roads get busier).
Heh....and the only reason I stopped at the Narrows booth was due to the fact that I needed a receipt to get reimbursed.
Now the really tricky city was Miami before it went to toll-by-plate....man that got out of control with backups, more so than even now.
Quote from: jakeroot on June 12, 2017, 11:31:03 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 12, 2017, 11:25:12 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on June 12, 2017, 11:04:54 PM
Quote from: JJBers on June 12, 2017, 08:27:10 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on June 11, 2017, 11:46:21 PM
Quote from: RG407 on June 11, 2017, 11:37:03 PM
Orlando. There's only one freeway. Everything else is a toll road.
I've always thought that the tolls were what made Florida freeways especially good. They keep the roads from getting crazy congested, and they help pay for maintenance.
Tolls can become traffic traps. There have been many traffic jams thanks to tolls.
I suppose if a tollbooth is involved, that's pretty much a guaranteed road block. But toll booths are so two-thousand and late!
How well do the Sunpass-/Licence plate- only roads operate in comparison?
Extremely favorably.... I even did a stub on the Suncoast Parkway/FL 589 on the Southeast board when I was on my Southeast trip, it made a huge difference having plate readers even though the project is far from done. The 528 was by far the worst Tollroad in Orlando for backups with the plaza at OIA still requiring even Sunpass cars to pass through the same gantry the cash people are using. 408, 417, and 429 were always pretty freely flowing....the Turnpike had problems sometimes with occasional backups southbound that were coming off the 408.
Holy shit! I had no idea they caused that much traffic. Of all the toll roads in Washington and BC, only one even permits cash payments: the Tacoma Narrows. But even that has a licence plate/toll tag option.
Bridge of the Gods and Hood River Bridge still take cash.
Quote from: Bickendan on June 13, 2017, 12:55:13 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on June 12, 2017, 11:31:03 PM
Of all the toll roads in Washington and BC, only one even permits cash payments: the Tacoma Narrows. But even that has a licence plate/toll tag option.
Bridge of the Gods and Hood River Bridge still take cash.
Ahh, you're right. I always forget about those two. Of all the places in the Northwest that I've visited, the Gorge isn't one of them.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 13, 2017, 06:32:48 AM
Heh....and the only reason I stopped at the Narrows booth was due to the fact that I needed a receipt to get reimbursed.
You're driving isn't for pleasure!? I don't know what you do for work, but color me interested.
St. Louis. The elevated portion of 64- erm, I mean US 40 ( :-D) makes you feel claustrophobic. The depressed section is also pretty bad.
Quote from: CapeCodder on July 28, 2017, 06:11:03 PM
The depressed section is also pretty bad.
One might say it's...depressing? :poke:
Try Anchorage. Three freeways with no direct connection to each other, with none providing a through connection across the city. On top of that, two of the freeways provide the only road evacuation routes out of the city, which is worrisome considering how badly Anchorage got whacked by the Good Friday earthquake of 1964 (when the population was much lower).
Charleston, SC is pretty bad. When a tarp falling closed the Don Holt I-526 bridge a couple weeks ago, traffic backed up all over the Charleston area. The 8 lane Ravenel Bridge was jammed up because of that bridge being closed.
I-526, the highway that connects West Ashley to Mount Pleasant and tens of thousands of people use every day, has only two lanes in each direction in most areas, except for the two high-level bridges which have a third lane for trucks.
I-26 is the only east-west freeway. One accident during the AM commute can cause a backup for hundreds of thousands of commuters, since the only other way to downtown is US 52 (Rivers Ave), with traffic lights every quarter mile, and two lane SC 61 (Ashley River Rd).
There is no freeway connecting West Ashley and downtown, and the I-526 loop, which should have been completed 15 years ago over to James Island, keeps getting stalled by NIMBYs.
Quote from: pianocello on July 28, 2017, 11:47:03 PM
Quote from: CapeCodder on July 28, 2017, 06:11:03 PM
The depressed section is also pretty bad.
One might say it's...depressing? :poke:
2 lanes each way in the heart of downtown? you bet. Too bad 755 wasn't built. The express lanes on 70 are almost pointless. Then again they are from the days when north St. Louis County was a bustling population center. I-55 can be pretty hairy south of 44.
i always thought st louis had good freeways, were any cancelled?
Quote from: silverback1065 on August 01, 2017, 10:28:37 AM
i always thought st louis had good freeways, were any cancelled?
Others probably have better facts, but I believe there are? were? some ghost ramps along I-70 just North of Downtown, and I think it was supposed to be for a Northern end of a West Side N/S Freeway. If I had to guess, extending North from the I-55/I-44 Southern Split, to near the Market Street Exit complex on 64/40, and then the "maybe" ghost ramp (gone now) on I-70 was just north of Branch St Exit -- can see a road/ramp going under I-70 to seemingly nowhere, that has since been removed and I-70 put back on the ground instead of an overpass there.
The 55/44 Southern junction looks like it could have been made with a through N/S route, and that 64/40 exit for Market Street doesn't look quite right either, especially with all the ROW between the ramps -- almost enough for about 4-6 lanes of a through road?
Where and how the exact routing...well there are enough road geeks around here, that surely one or two are historians =)
Over on the IL side, the South interchange of I-255 and IL-3 looks over-engineered...maybe for a thought of an extended I-24, sometime, back in the day?
And also, the interchange on I-55/I-64 for Tudor Ave/13th St looks like it was engineered for a freeway, where there is none
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 23, 2017, 09:09:22 AM
Quote from: I-90 on May 23, 2017, 08:11:01 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 20, 2017, 03:28:47 PM
Milwaukee only really seems to be missing an e-w freeway in the northern part of the city. Everything else is a fixable design/capacity issue as far as I'm concerned.
Search up park east freeway
The Park East was a useless waste of space. Good riddance.
The Park West Freeway would have been the one with some merit if it met up with the FdL Freeway. But I don't think it would have been worth it to slash through so much neighborhood.
The one canceled MKE freeway I sometimes lament is the Bay Freeway; a once-proposed east-west freeway that would have linked I-43 and WI 145 between Capitol and Hampton.
If it was such a useless waste of space then why did the land sit empty for so long? We all told what a gold mine the land was but it took well over a decade before anything was built there. If it wasn't for the new Bucks arena who knows how long it would have sat there vacant.
Quote from: ColossalBlocks on May 19, 2017, 03:47:42 PM
Since webny99 made a thread on cities with a great freeway setup, I decided to make a thread about cities with awful freeway setups.
So what are the cities with the shittiest freeway setup?
San Francisco BY FAR. Just try to get from SFO to the Marin headlands in anything like a reasonable time by Freeway. Hint: It's US-101 to I-80 across the Bay Bridge to I-580 across the San Rafael Bridge to US-101 south. ... and some of that isn't even limited access. Both Van Ness (the posted US-101) and 19th Ave (the posted CASR-1) are surface streets and have nothing approaching synchronized signals.
Quote from: michravera on August 02, 2017, 01:55:23 PM
Quote from: ColossalBlocks on May 19, 2017, 03:47:42 PM
Since webny99 made a thread on cities with a great freeway setup, I decided to make a thread about cities with awful freeway setups.
So what are the cities with the shittiest freeway setup?
San Francisco BY FAR. Just try to get from SFO to the Marin headlands in anything like a reasonable time by Freeway. Hint: It's US-101 to I-80 across the Bay Bridge to I-580 across the San Rafael Bridge to US-101 south. ... and some of that isn't even limited access. Both Van Ness (the posted US-101) and 19th Ave (the posted CASR-1) are surface streets and have nothing approaching synchronized signals.
It could have been all-freeway if the Embarcadero Freeway hadn't been cancelled/torn down.
Quote from: ilpt4u on August 01, 2017, 10:13:18 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on August 01, 2017, 10:28:37 AM
i always thought st louis had good freeways, were any cancelled?
Others probably have better facts, but I believe there are? were? some ghost ramps along I-70 just North of Downtown, and I think it was supposed to be for a Northern end of a West Side N/S Freeway. If I had to guess, extending North from the I-55/I-44 Southern Split, to near the Market Street Exit complex on 64/40, and then the "maybe" ghost ramp (gone now) on I-70 was just north of Branch St Exit -- can see a road/ramp going under I-70 to seemingly nowhere, that has since been removed and I-70 put back on the ground instead of an overpass there.
The 55/44 Southern junction looks like it could have been made with a through N/S route, and that 64/40 exit for Market Street doesn't look quite right either, especially with all the ROW between the ramps -- almost enough for about 4-6 lanes of a through road?
Where and how the exact routing...well there are enough road geeks around here, that surely one or two are historians =)
Over on the IL side, the South interchange of I-255 and IL-3 looks over-engineered...maybe for a thought of an extended I-24, sometime, back in the day?
And also, the interchange on I-55/I-64 for Tudor Ave/13th St looks like it was engineered for a freeway, where there is none
Off the top of my head, there were plans to continue I-170 South to I-55. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_170)
You got the MO755 using the ramps from the I-44/55 interchange and the Market St ramps that have that excessive ROW. Narrative about Route 755 including maps and route descriptions (http://gumbully.com/blog/2014/11/27/lessons-learned-from-route-755).
Can't find hardly anything over the E St Louis stuff. But, admittedly I don't live in STL, so it's hard to find the 1960s-1980s stuff online
Quote from: michravera on August 02, 2017, 01:55:23 PM
Quote from: ColossalBlocks on May 19, 2017, 03:47:42 PM
Since webny99 made a thread on cities with a great freeway setup, I decided to make a thread about cities with awful freeway setups.
So what are the cities with the shittiest freeway setup?
San Francisco BY FAR. Just try to get from SFO to the Marin headlands in anything like a reasonable time by Freeway. Hint: It's US-101 to I-80 across the Bay Bridge to I-580 across the San Rafael Bridge to US-101 south. ... and some of that isn't even limited access. Both Van Ness (the posted US-101) and 19th Ave (the posted CASR-1) are surface streets and have nothing approaching synchronized signals.
19th Avenue used to have timed signals southbound... is that no longer the case?
A lot varies with conditions. On nice days, especially summers and weekends, the Golden Gate Bridge gets very crowded with tourists. But 880 is often terrible too, and so are the Bay Bridge, San Rafael Bridge, and San Mateo Bridge (another option). Really you should check out traffic conditions right before you head out.
Quote from: intelati49 on August 03, 2017, 12:46:40 PM
You got the MO755 using the ramps from the I-44/55 interchange and the Market St ramps that have that excessive ROW. Narrative about Route 755 including maps and route descriptions (http://gumbully.com/blog/2014/11/27/lessons-learned-from-route-755).
MO 755 looks like it ran into a similar fate as I-494/Chicago's Crosstown Expressway, that never happened
Quote from: kkt on August 03, 2017, 06:41:53 PM
Quote from: michravera on August 02, 2017, 01:55:23 PM
Quote from: ColossalBlocks on May 19, 2017, 03:47:42 PM
Since webny99 made a thread on cities with a great freeway setup, I decided to make a thread about cities with awful freeway setups.
So what are the cities with the shittiest freeway setup?
San Francisco BY FAR. Just try to get from SFO to the Marin headlands in anything like a reasonable time by Freeway. Hint: It's US-101 to I-80 across the Bay Bridge to I-580 across the San Rafael Bridge to US-101 south. ... and some of that isn't even limited access. Both Van Ness (the posted US-101) and 19th Ave (the posted CASR-1) are surface streets and have nothing approaching synchronized signals.
19th Avenue used to have timed signals southbound... is that no longer the case?
A lot varies with conditions. On nice days, especially summers and weekends, the Golden Gate Bridge gets very crowded with tourists. But 880 is often terrible too, and so are the Bay Bridge, San Rafael Bridge, and San Mateo Bridge (another option). Really you should check out traffic conditions right before you head out.
Maybe (and I have strong reservations about that) 19th is timed southbound, but certainly not northbound!