https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/whitehouse.gov/files/omb/budget/fy2018/fact_sheets/2018%20Budget%20Fact%20Sheet_Infrastructure%20Initiative.pdf
From a supplemental fact sheet to the recently-released budget proposal.
QuoteLiberalize Tolling Policy and Allow Private Investment in Rest Areas
Tolling is generally restricted on interstate highways. This restriction prevents public and private investment in such facilities. We should reduce this restriction and allow the States to assess their transportation needs and weigh the relative merits of tolling assets. The Administration also supports allowing the private sector to construct, operate, and maintain interstate rest areas, which are often overburden and inadequately maintained.
Let us all try to stay on topic. Your opinions on the president or various conspiracy theories belong elsewhere.
IMHO, the devil is in the details. The toll road I am most familiar with, the WV Turnpike is totally corrupt. It takes in huge $$ and spends them without any legislative oversight. If we are talking about that then pass. If someone has the moral courage to simply take whatever money a newly tolled interstate has and put it in the general highway department budget and maintain the toll road out of that in the same way as any other road, then that is worth talking about.
As to rest areas, then again, what do they mean. If they are talking about turning current rest areas into toll road like service areas, with cooked food and fuel, then that is a political non-starter, no matter what anyone thinks about it. If they are talking about allowing a competitive private industry to operate the vending (rather than the stae's blind program or the state DOT directly) and perhaps charge a little for their services, then maybe they can do something.
Seeing rest areas described as "overburden" (sic) leads me to believe they are talking about inadequate truck parking.
Quote from: SP Cook on May 23, 2017, 02:30:53 PM
Let us all try to stay on topic. Your opinions on the president or various conspiracy theories belong elsewhere.
IMHO, the devil is in the details. The toll road I am most familiar with, the WV Turnpike is totally corrupt. It takes in huge $$ and spends them without any legislative oversight. If we are talking about that then pass. If someone has the moral courage to simply take whatever money a newly tolled interstate has and put it in the general highway department budget and maintain the toll road out of that in the same way as any other road, then that is worth talking about.
As to rest areas, then again, what do they mean. If they are talking about turning current rest areas into toll road like service areas, with cooked food and fuel, then that is a political non-starter, no matter what anyone thinks about it. If they are talking about allowing a competitive private industry to operate the vending (rather than the stae's blind program or the state DOT directly) and perhaps charge a little for their services, then maybe they can do something.
I doubt that toll roads will be limited to that, given as the talking point called for private construction and operation, with presumably a profit motive.
Quote from: hbelkins on May 23, 2017, 02:53:06 PM
Seeing rest areas described as "overburden" (sic) leads me to believe they are talking about inadequate truck parking.
Presumably states will start charging for overnight truck parking (if they don't already)?
It's a bad idea if the profits made don't go towards road construction or improvements.
Quote from: Buffaboy on May 23, 2017, 03:17:54 PM
It's a bad idea if the profits made don't go towards road construction or improvements.
Pretty sure private operators are going to want to deliver those profits to shareholders.
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on May 23, 2017, 03:18:58 PM
Quote from: Buffaboy on May 23, 2017, 03:17:54 PM
It's a bad idea if the profits made don't go towards road construction or improvements.
Pretty sure private operators are going to want to deliver those profits to shareholders.
I would want a clause for a certain pavement quality, and average LOS. Or the contract is void and the state gets the road back/Major fines...
Something to hold the owner accountable for the "public road."
Haven't thought about it for a while so I'm probably missing something...
I'd take any proposals gleaned from the WH budget with a shaker rather than a mere grain of salt! It's likely the entire budget is DOA once it hits the Senate; some House members may give it a modicum of support, but it steps on too many toes at once to have a chance of passage unscathed. Congress will likely do what it always does -- cobble together something for which no one cares much ideologically -- with maybe 5% content derived from the executive branch -- but which will minimally satisfy most of the longer-termed representatives & senators. Expect business as usual but with a lot more pissing & moaning from all sides than with past budgets.
Quote from: sparker on May 24, 2017, 05:51:21 PM
I'd take any proposals gleaned from the WH budget with a shaker rather than a mere grain of salt! It's likely the entire budget is DOA once it hits the Senate; some House members may give it a modicum of support, but it steps on too many toes at once to have a chance of passage unscathed. Congress will likely do what it always does -- cobble together something for which no one cares much ideologically -- with maybe 5% content derived from the executive branch -- but which will minimally satisfy most of the longer-termed representatives & senators. Expect business as usual but with a lot more pissing & moaning from all sides than with past budgets.
Agreed. On first glance, this budget gets us on the move back toward a constitutionally-compliant federal government (cutting social programs, eliminating the National Endowment for the Humanities, National Endowment for the Arts and a number of other things that aren't expressly authorized as proper functions of the federal government) but when you see the amount of whining by senators, representatives and bureaucrats, you realize this budget isn't going anywhere. :angry:
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on May 23, 2017, 01:28:25 PM
https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/whitehouse.gov/files/omb/budget/fy2018/fact_sheets/2018%20Budget%20Fact%20Sheet_Infrastructure%20Initiative.pdf
From a supplemental fact sheet to the recently-released budget proposal.
QuoteLiberalize Tolling Policy and Allow Private Investment in Rest Areas
Tolling is generally restricted on interstate highways. This restriction prevents public and private investment in such facilities. We should reduce this restriction and allow the States to assess their transportation needs and weigh the relative merits of tolling assets. The Administration also supports allowing the private sector to construct, operate, and maintain interstate rest areas, which are often overburden and inadequately maintained.
Don't know if tolling will happen, but making our rest areas into service areas (a la Ontario 401) isn't a bad idea. On road service areas complete (at least in Illinois) rather well with off road services. The prices of food aren't much different, and the price of fuel is about the same.
Quote from: intelati49 on May 23, 2017, 03:53:52 PM
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on May 23, 2017, 03:18:58 PM
Quote from: Buffaboy on May 23, 2017, 03:17:54 PM
It's a bad idea if the profits made don't go towards road construction or improvements.
Pretty sure private operators are going to want to deliver those profits to shareholders.
I would want a clause for a certain pavement quality, and average LOS. Or the contract is void and the state gets the road back/Major fines...
Something to hold the owner accountable for the "public road."
Haven't thought about it for a while so I'm probably missing something...
Pretty much this.
I have no problem with profits and shareholders getting their share, so as long as safety upkeep, road quality, maintenance, and traffic improvements can be all be met
first.
If they bail out of a rocky road 10-12 years in, it's not about "who's holding the baby" but "who's taking care of the troublesome adolescent"?
Quote from: SP Cook on May 23, 2017, 02:30:53 PM
As to rest areas, then again, what do they mean. If they are talking about turning current rest areas into toll road like service areas, with cooked food and fuel, then that is a political non-starter, no matter what anyone thinks about it. If they are talking about allowing a competitive private industry to operate the vending (rather than the stae's blind program or the state DOT directly) and perhaps charge a little for their services, then maybe they can do something.
The U.S. is unusual in not having full-service plazas along freeway-class roads.
Across the northern border, Ontario and Quebec have had them for as long as I can remember (some of the ones on the Quebec
Autoroute system may date back to the days when much of it was tolled, though I am not certain about that).
Quote from: SP Cook on May 23, 2017, 02:30:53 PM
IMHO, the devil is in the details. The toll road I am most familiar with, the WV Turnpike is totally corrupt. It takes in huge $$ and spends them without any legislative oversight. If we are talking about that then pass. If someone has the moral courage to simply take whatever money a newly tolled interstate has and put it in the general highway department budget and maintain the toll road out of that in the same way as any other road, then that is worth talking about.
To the north of West Virginia is Pennsylvania, where the Turnpike Commission has been under close legislative oversight for many years. Has that reduced corruption at the PTC? Apparently not, as senior managers (examples here (http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2014/11/ex-turnpike_chairman_mitchell.html) and here (http://www.pennlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/05/pa_turnpike_whistleblower_case.html)) and more than a few Pennsylvania elected officials have served time in prison for Turnpike-related corruption (examples here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_Fumo) and here (http://wnep.com/2013/03/13/mellow-implicated-in-turnpike-scheme/)).
Then we have Act 44 and Act 89 (https://www.paturnpike.com/business/act44_plan.aspx), which divert hundreds of millions of dollars from the PTC to fund mostly transit capital and operating subsidies - that have little (or usually
nothing) to do with the Turnpike.
Then there's Breezewood and its kin.
I am not excusing any illegal or improper activities at the W.Va. Turnpike, but mention the above in Pennsylvania because legislative oversight does not assure that government a government agency runs something well.
According to Bloomberg, the ATA (American Trucking Ass'n) has come out squarely (again) against placing tolls on existing Interstate facilities; aside from the obviously negative impact that would have on the industry, they're stating that there is considerably more political opposition to this plan than there is support. Since the ATA have been substantial contributors to Republicans (particularly if their last name is Shuster!) over the years, this is likely to give pause to congressional leaders as well as the rank & file regarding the "retrofit" of tolls -- although tolling additional lanes and/or selected new facilities remains on the table.
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on May 23, 2017, 01:28:25 PM
https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/whitehouse.gov/files/omb/budget/fy2018/fact_sheets/2018%20Budget%20Fact%20Sheet_Infrastructure%20Initiative.pdf
From a supplemental fact sheet to the recently-released budget proposal.
QuoteLiberalize Tolling Policy and Allow Private Investment in Rest Areas
Tolling is generally restricted on interstate highways. This restriction prevents public and private investment in such facilities. We should reduce this restriction and allow the States to assess their transportation needs and weigh the relative merits of tolling assets. The Administration also supports allowing the private sector to construct, operate, and maintain interstate rest areas, which are often overburden and inadequately maintained.
now they need to cut the power of the EPA so they can do more road building.
In Chicago they can toll I-290 I-294 to loop? or start of 4 lane part? I-55 I-294 to loop.
I-94 US-41 to Chicago line?
borman expressway / Kingery Expressway?
I-290 I-294 to I-90? With I-355 being toll in full?