Where do you think the Crossroads of America is?
You can pick any junction of (at least) two 2dis, except for Indianapolis, and explain your reasoning.
If you're explicitly excluding Indianapolis, we have a clear winner (otherwise there would be no reason to exclude it).
Taking a quick look at a map, the only cities with more than 6 2di legs radiating out of the metro area are Indianapolis and Chicago. Since we're excluding Indianapolis, I say Chicago.
But really, it's Indy. No question.
I vote St. Louis. I-55, I-44, I-64, I-70, and the de facto central divider of the US: the Mississippi River.
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on June 02, 2017, 01:03:53 AM
I vote St. Louis. I-55, I-44, I-64, I-70, and the de facto central divider of the US: the Mississippi River.
Not to mention the I-24 West traffic that must use I-57 to I-64 to get to STL and points West, since I-24 stops in Marion, IL instead of continuing on its NW trajectory and reaching STL directly...
I-24 does use STL for a Control City, Westbound...
Indianapolis has commonly and historically used the term. Joliet, IL, uses the term "Crossroads of Mid-America" (I-55 & 80, previously US-6, 30, & 66).
Springfield for Mass.
If we are excluding Indianapolis then the obvious answer is Speedway, IN.
St. Louis.
Or Kansas City.
Chicago. :P
I would think Oklahoma City is decent choice (I-35, I-40, and I-44)
Quote from: 7/8 on June 02, 2017, 02:49:04 PM
I would think Oklahoma City is decent choice (I-35, I-40, and I-44)
Not centraly located enough.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 02, 2017, 03:28:39 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on June 02, 2017, 02:49:04 PM
I would think Oklahoma City is decent choice (I-35, I-40, and I-44)
Not centraly located enough.
A lot more centrally located than Springfield, Massachusetts.
Quote from: US 41 on June 02, 2017, 03:39:41 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 02, 2017, 03:28:39 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on June 02, 2017, 02:49:04 PM
I would think Oklahoma City is decent choice (I-35, I-40, and I-44)
Not centraly located enough.
A lot more centrally located than Springfield, Massachusetts.
The reply of Springfield, MA was for the state, not for the whole country.
Quote from: US 41 on June 02, 2017, 03:39:41 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 02, 2017, 03:28:39 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on June 02, 2017, 02:49:04 PM
I would think Oklahoma City is decent choice (I-35, I-40, and I-44)
Not centraly located enough.
A lot more centrally located than Springfield, Massachusetts.
Or Chicago.
I know we're discussing country, but I could also make an argument for Worcester for MA (I-90, I-290/I-395, I-190, and MA 146, with I-84 and I-495 on the periphery)
Quote from: 1 on June 02, 2017, 03:40:11 PM
Quote from: US 41 on June 02, 2017, 03:39:41 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 02, 2017, 03:28:39 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on June 02, 2017, 02:49:04 PM
I would think Oklahoma City is decent choice (I-35, I-40, and I-44)
Not centraly located enough.
A lot more centrally located than Springfield, Massachusetts.
The reply of Springfield, MA was for the state, not for the whole country.
Yeah but the thread is about the "crossroads of AMERICA" not the "crossroads of the state you're from".
In the past Chicago hands down... With populatuin moving South and West... I would say Dallas
LGMS428
Quote from: jwolfer on June 02, 2017, 06:54:46 PM
In the past Chicago hands down... With populatuin moving South and West... I would say Dallas
LGMS428
Chicago still is the nation's major Rail Hub, and for an "inland" City is a pretty major Waterway Hub, as it is a primary location that links the Mississippi Waterways to the Great Lakes, and O'Hare is a major Air Hub. Its a pretty major Transportation center, including the Interstate System as well
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 02, 2017, 03:28:39 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on June 02, 2017, 02:49:04 PM
I would think Oklahoma City is decent choice (I-35, I-40, and I-44)
Not centraly located enough.
It's actually reasonably close to Lebanon, KS (the geographic centre of the lower 48), and it's closer than Indianapolis is.
Quote from: ilpt4u on June 02, 2017, 06:57:10 PM
Quote from: jwolfer on June 02, 2017, 06:54:46 PM
In the past Chicago hands down... With populatuin moving South and West... I would say Dallas
LGMS428
Chicago still is the nation's major Rail Hub, and for an "inland" City is a pretty major Waterway Hub, as it is a primary location that links the Mississippi Waterways to the Great Lakes, and O'Hare is a major Air Hub. Its a pretty major Transportation center, including the Interstate System as well
I am not denying thag Chicago a major hub.. It just is not as prominent as it once was... As the population is moving South and West.. The "crossroads" has moved south and west
Perhaps i should have written the crossroads is in transition.
LGMS428
Indianapolis :colorful:
Crossroads of New England...Boston, then Hartford.
Washington's crossroads would almost certainly be Seattle (5 & 90), but perhaps someone could make the case for Ellensburg? Assuming the 82's importance could be wrapped together with the 84.
Oregon's would have to be Portland (5 & 84). The only other contender would be Pendleton, but 82 is only important because of 84, so I think it's out.
Since there have been some regional and state crossroads.. Here are some of my thoughts
Southern US.. Atlanta.. i75,i85 and i20 meet there... Air travel and the city exists because of the railroads
Florida... Orlando.. Central to entire state... Its not on i95 but close.. It is a transition from the more tropical south Florida and subtropical north Florida... It also bridges the gap between Deep South old Florida and transplants from up North and Latin America. And the urban and rural. Even before Disney, although Orlando was not internationally known and a much smaller city it was the center of Florida. In the 1950s there was attempts to move capital there...And Walt Disney chose Orlando based on the crossroads of i4 and the FL Turnpike
New Jersey.. It would be Woodbridge(area) where NJTP(i95) and GSP cross..i287 and US 1&9 come into mix too... Its where i95 would have split off to use Somerset Expressway to Trenton...
LGMS428
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 02, 2017, 03:28:39 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on June 02, 2017, 02:49:04 PM
I would think Oklahoma City is decent choice (I-35, I-40, and I-44)
Not centraly located enough.
Oh, it absolutely is. Junction of the x5 Interstate that most centrally traverses the American heartland with the x0 Interstate that most centrally traverses the American heartland? Yup. Crossroads of America.
Quote from: empirestate on June 03, 2017, 07:40:30 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 02, 2017, 03:28:39 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on June 02, 2017, 02:49:04 PM
I would think Oklahoma City is decent choice (I-35, I-40, and I-44)
Not centraly located enough.
Oh, it absolutely is. Junction of the x5 Interstate that most centrally traverses the American heartland with the x0 Interstate that most centrally traverses the American heartland? Yup. Crossroads of America.
more south central than central.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 03, 2017, 09:05:10 PM
Quote from: empirestate on June 03, 2017, 07:40:30 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 02, 2017, 03:28:39 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on June 02, 2017, 02:49:04 PM
I would think Oklahoma City is decent choice (I-35, I-40, and I-44)
Not centraly located enough.
Oh, it absolutely is. Junction of the x5 Interstate that most centrally traverses the American heartland with the x0 Interstate that most centrally traverses the American heartland? Yup. Crossroads of America.
more south central than central.
Doesn't matter; the city's location alone is not the basis for my selection. There's one other city I might consider equally suitable, based on my stated criteria; can you guess which?
Kansas City is the nearest major city to the geographic center of the contiguous 48 United States. That point is Lebanon, KS. The United States' center of population as of 2010 was near Plato, Missouri. That's about 15 miles SSW from Fort Leonard Wood.
Kansas City is both a major rail hub and major highway intersection. Chicago is also both a major intersection of rail and national highways. But Chicago is really in the Northeast US, right off the Great Lakes. I don't think of Chicago being in the geographical center or population center of the country.
I think a good argument could be made for Oklahoma City being the geographic center of the Interstate Highway system, especially when one considers how the nation's population center has been slowly migrating West near the I-44 corridor. The Eastern Seaboard Cities (Boston, NYC, Philadelphia, DC) and Southern California are the nation's two biggest population centers. Oklahoma City is the halfway point between those population centers. Historic US-66 makes its turn Westbound in OKC, where I-44 and I-40 intersect. I-44 is a very busy route between Oklahoma City and St Louis. There is a lot of coast to coast traffic taking that route.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on June 09, 2017, 01:18:22 PM
Kansas City is the nearest major city to the geographic center of the contiguous 48 United States. That point is Lebanon, KS. The United States' center of population as of 2010 was near Plato, Missouri. That's about 15 miles SSW from Fort Leonard Wood.
Kansas City is both a major rail hub and major highway intersection. Chicago is also both a major intersection of rail and national highways. But Chicago is really in the Northeast US, right off the Great Lakes. I don't think of Chicago being in the geographical center or population center of the country.
I think a good argument could be made for Oklahoma City being the geographic center of the Interstate Highway system, especially when one considers how the nation's population center has been slowly migrating West near the I-44 corridor. The Eastern Seaboard Cities (Boston, NYC, Philadelphia, DC) and Southern California are the nation's two biggest population centers. Oklahoma City is the halfway point between those population centers. Historic US-66 makes its turn Westbound in OKC, where I-44 and I-40 intersect. I-44 is a very busy route between Oklahoma City and St Louis. There is a lot of coast to coast traffic taking that route.
I agree with Kansas City. It has 4 2dis and 8 US highways, and not that many cities have so many routes. In addition, I think I-35 and I-70 are the interstates that run down the middle of the country, and they intersect in KC.
For the Southern US, Lafayette, Louisiana. I-10 and I-49.
Quote from: ColossalBlocks on June 09, 2017, 06:15:57 PM
For the Southern US, Lafayette, Louisiana. I-10 and I-49.
Jackson, Miss, would be a better choice.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 09, 2017, 11:05:33 PM
Quote from: ColossalBlocks on June 09, 2017, 06:15:57 PM
For the Southern US, Lafayette, Louisiana. I-10 and I-49.
Jackson, Miss, would be a better choice.
What about Atlanta, at least currently it is for the south.
Quote from: JJBers on June 09, 2017, 11:31:51 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 09, 2017, 11:05:33 PM
Quote from: ColossalBlocks on June 09, 2017, 06:15:57 PM
For the Southern US, Lafayette, Louisiana. I-10 and I-49.
Jackson, Miss, would be a better choice.
What about Atlanta, at least currently it is for the south.
If South includes Texas, Atlanta would not be centrally located enough.
Quote from: roadguy2 on June 09, 2017, 05:16:29 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on June 09, 2017, 01:18:22 PM
Kansas City is the nearest major city to the geographic center of the contiguous 48 United States. That point is Lebanon, KS. The United States' center of population as of 2010 was near Plato, Missouri. That's about 15 miles SSW from Fort Leonard Wood.
Kansas City is both a major rail hub and major highway intersection. Chicago is also both a major intersection of rail and national highways. But Chicago is really in the Northeast US, right off the Great Lakes. I don't think of Chicago being in the geographical center or population center of the country.
I think a good argument could be made for Oklahoma City being the geographic center of the Interstate Highway system, especially when one considers how the nation's population center has been slowly migrating West near the I-44 corridor. The Eastern Seaboard Cities (Boston, NYC, Philadelphia, DC) and Southern California are the nation's two biggest population centers. Oklahoma City is the halfway point between those population centers. Historic US-66 makes its turn Westbound in OKC, where I-44 and I-40 intersect. I-44 is a very busy route between Oklahoma City and St Louis. There is a lot of coast to coast traffic taking that route.
I agree with Kansas City. It has 4 2dis and 8 US highways, and not that many cities have so many routes. In addition, I think I-35 and I-70 are the interstates that run down the middle of the country, and they intersect in KC.
Kansas City is indeed the other city I was thinking of. The reason I somewhat discounted it, frankly, is because it does have so many routes intersecting–my thought was that a genuine "crossroads" is really the crossing of only two roads (I honestly forgot about I-44 in OKC).
But yes, if you figure that I-70 is the most central of the I-x0's, then it's KC. If you figure I-40, then OKC. (And if you're going by numerical median, it is I-40, although in that case the x5 would be 45 or 55...)
And that's just for Interstates...what's the crossroads if we're thinking US routes?
Suburban Dayton, Ohio. (National Rd-Dixie Highway)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.roadfan.com%2F40-25.jpg&hash=527fda0dfae1c9b081d5f0620a37de6617fc1da2)
Drops mic.
Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on June 10, 2017, 10:38:45 AM
Suburban Dayton, Ohio. (National Rd-Dixie Highway)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.roadfan.com%2F40-25.jpg&hash=527fda0dfae1c9b081d5f0620a37de6617fc1da2)
Drops mic.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8908993,-84.1987681,3a,15y,71.64h,94.69t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sHsKOEj5JCdVtxQ3v8_G7rg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DHsKOEj5JCdVtxQ3v8_G7rg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D67.13583%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656
Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on June 10, 2017, 10:38:45 AM
Suburban Dayton, Ohio. (National Rd-Dixie Highway)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.roadfan.com%2F40-25.jpg&hash=527fda0dfae1c9b081d5f0620a37de6617fc1da2)
Drops mic.
Nice one
Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on June 10, 2017, 10:38:45 AM
Suburban Dayton, Ohio. (National Rd-Dixie Highway)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.roadfan.com%2F40-25.jpg&hash=527fda0dfae1c9b081d5f0620a37de6617fc1da2)
Drops mic.
Ja but,
The
other intersection of Dixie Highway and National Road is where? :-/
Quote from: empirestate on June 10, 2017, 12:22:37 AM
Quote from: roadguy2 on June 09, 2017, 05:16:29 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on June 09, 2017, 01:18:22 PM
Kansas City is the nearest major city to the geographic center of the contiguous 48 United States. That point is Lebanon, KS. The United States' center of population as of 2010 was near Plato, Missouri. That's about 15 miles SSW from Fort Leonard Wood.
Kansas City is both a major rail hub and major highway intersection. Chicago is also both a major intersection of rail and national highways. But Chicago is really in the Northeast US, right off the Great Lakes. I don't think of Chicago being in the geographical center or population center of the country.
I think a good argument could be made for Oklahoma City being the geographic center of the Interstate Highway system, especially when one considers how the nation's population center has been slowly migrating West near the I-44 corridor. The Eastern Seaboard Cities (Boston, NYC, Philadelphia, DC) and Southern California are the nation's two biggest population centers. Oklahoma City is the halfway point between those population centers. Historic US-66 makes its turn Westbound in OKC, where I-44 and I-40 intersect. I-44 is a very busy route between Oklahoma City and St Louis. There is a lot of coast to coast traffic taking that route.
I agree with Kansas City. It has 4 2dis and 8 US highways, and not that many cities have so many routes. In addition, I think I-35 and I-70 are the interstates that run down the middle of the country, and they intersect in KC.
Kansas City is indeed the other city I was thinking of. The reason I somewhat discounted it, frankly, is because it does have so many routes intersecting–my thought was that a genuine "crossroads" is really the crossing of only two roads (I honestly forgot about I-44 in OKC).
But yes, if you figure that I-70 is the most central of the I-x0's, then it's KC. If you figure I-40, then OKC. (And if you're going by numerical median, it is I-40, although in that case the x5 would be 45 or 55...)
And that's just for Interstates...what's the crossroads if we're thinking US routes?
The central US x0's are US 40 and 50. If you're going by numbers, the central NS primary route is US 51. 50 and 51 intersect in a town called Sandoval IL. 40 and 51 intersect in Vandalia IL, which was the endpoint of the National Road...
The closest major city to these towns would be St. Louis, which is where US 61 meets with 40 and 50.
Quote from: JJBers on June 03, 2017, 06:33:26 PM
Crossroads of New England...Boston, then Hartford.
Lebanon, New Hampshire claims this title.
(https://mark.trademarkia.com/logo-images/lebanon-area-chamber-of-commerce/lebanon-area-chamber-of-commerce-at-the-crossroads-of-new-england-85602533.jpg)
I-89/91 and US 4/5 intersect right across the river in White River Junction, Vermont so Lebanon misses the mark on claiming to be a crossroads of anything by a few miles.
Also, the star on that logo is nowhere near Lebanon.
Quote from: jwolfer on June 03, 2017, 07:29:12 PM
New Jersey.. It would be Woodbridge(area) where NJTP(i95) and GSP cross..i287 and US 1&9 come into mix too... Its where i95 would have split off to use Somerset Expressway to Trenton...
But, but, but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossroads,_New_Jersey
Seriously, though, I agree with you. Depending on how widely the Woodbridge area is defined, you also have NJ 440 and NJ 18, and to a lesser extent NJ 27.
I'd say I-70 at I-25 is a pretty good cross-road that represents the boundary from the Mountain West to the Plains of the Mid-West. Either side of that line is dramatically different in terms of terrain and character.
Quote from: The Nature Boy on June 12, 2017, 11:08:55 AM
Quote from: JJBers on June 03, 2017, 06:33:26 PM
Crossroads of New England...Boston, then Hartford.
Lebanon, New Hampshire claims this title.
(https://mark.trademarkia.com/logo-images/lebanon-area-chamber-of-commerce/lebanon-area-chamber-of-commerce-at-the-crossroads-of-new-england-85602533.jpg)
I-89/91 and US 4/5 intersect right across the river in White River Junction, Vermont so Lebanon misses the mark on claiming to be a crossroads of anything by a few miles.
Also, the star on that logo is nowhere near Lebanon.
I-89 and I-91 severe somewhat of the same purpose in New England. I would only see the US 3/4 intersection as somewhat important
Quote from: GaryV on June 10, 2017, 06:11:58 PM
Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on June 10, 2017, 10:38:45 AM
Suburban Dayton, Ohio. (National Rd-Dixie Highway)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.roadfan.com%2F40-25.jpg&hash=527fda0dfae1c9b081d5f0620a37de6617fc1da2)
Drops mic.
Ja but,
The other intersection of Dixie Highway and National Road is where? :-/
Not sure exactly on the local Indy routing of Dixie Highway West Leg and National Road, but the intersection has to be in Indy, somewhere
Dixie Highway West Leg enters Indy on US 136 and leaves on IN-37 (but I don't know the "inside I-465" routing), and the National Road is US 40, which I believe used Washington St, historically, "inside I-465" thru Indy
So my best guess, West Washington St and West St? Unless Dixie didn't go that far East towards Downtown Indy...
That said, if Dixie Highway West and National Road cross(ed) in Indy, thats even more reason for Indy to have the "Crossroads of America" title
I think the population centers and corridors of commerce in today's United States are too geographically dispersed for the term "Crossroads of America" to be very meaningful.
In the early 19th century, when the country's population was largely concentrated on the Eastern seaboard with a westward arm stretching from Pittsburgh through central Ohio and Indiana, you might claim that Baltimore (intersection of National Road and King's Highway), Hagerstown (intersection of National Road and Great Wagon Road), or Philadelphia (intersection of Great Wagon Road and King's Highway) were the crossroads. People or goods traveling from North to South–or East to West–would almost inevitably pass through or near these cities.
But by the middle of that century, as new population centers began mushrooming in the upper Midwest (Detroit, Chicago) and the country was connected in a web of railroads, the U.S. no longer had a single centralized hub of national transportation. Chicago emerged as a major railroad hub and a transfer point for raw materials of the Great Plains being refined or manufactured and shipped to the East–arguably a "Crossroads of America" in the late 19th Century. But someone in 1900's New York could live an entire life wearing textiles from the mills of New England (made of Georgia cotton), eating food grown in New Jersey, and using consumer products manufactured in Pennsylvania that had never been west of the Alleghenies.
And today, while Kansas City, St. Louis, or Oklahoma City could arguably be the Crossroads of America due to their central location, this would ignore the lifetimes' worth of freight, commercial activity, and personal travel that occurs up and down the East Coast, from coast to coast on I-80 and I-90, and across the growing Sun Belt cities along the I-10 and I-20 corridors–none of which has to pass through Missouri or Oklahoma.
The crossroads of CA would actually be two: San Francisco and Los Angeles.
Kansas City. I-70, I-35, I-29 and I-49.
St. Louis. At the meeting place of east and west, and north and south.
Because of California's geography, there's not really one crossroads. I guess Bakersfield if I had to pick someplace.
Quote from: kkt on June 13, 2017, 01:21:13 PM
St. Louis. At the meeting place of east and west, and north and south.
Because of California's geography, there's not really one crossroads. I guess Bakersfield if I had to pick someplace.
I would use Sacramento for California.
Quote from: epzik8 on June 13, 2017, 12:00:45 PM
Kansas City. I-70, I-35, I-29 and I-49.
And US 24, 40, 50, 56, 69, 71, 73, and 169.
Quote from: Henry on June 13, 2017, 10:03:32 AM
The crossroads of CA would actually be two: San Francisco and Los Angeles.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 13, 2017, 01:59:44 PM
Quote from: kkt on June 13, 2017, 01:21:13 PM
Because of California's geography, there's not really one crossroads. I guess Bakersfield if I had to pick someplace.
I would use Sacramento for California.
As would I, at least tied with Los Angeles or Bakersfield. Although San Francisco is large, the only major interstate is the 80.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 13, 2017, 01:59:44 PM
Quote from: kkt on June 13, 2017, 01:21:13 PM
St. Louis. At the meeting place of east and west, and north and south.
Because of California's geography, there's not really one crossroads. I guess Bakersfield if I had to pick someplace.
I would use Sacramento for California.
Pretty far north, though. You wouldn't go through it just going between the two major metro areas.
Quote from: kkt on June 13, 2017, 05:05:01 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 13, 2017, 01:59:44 PM
Quote from: kkt on June 13, 2017, 01:21:13 PM
St. Louis. At the meeting place of east and west, and north and south.
Because of California's geography, there's not really one crossroads. I guess Bakersfield if I had to pick someplace.
I would use Sacramento for California.
Pretty far north, though. You wouldn't go through it just going between the two major metro areas.
K. So let's have two: Sacramento, and Los Angeles. I don't think Bakersfield, nor San Francisco would qualify, as they only have one 2di (OP requires two 2di's). Hell, Barstow would qualify over Bakersfield.
Quote from: jakeroot on June 13, 2017, 05:14:20 PM
Quote from: kkt on June 13, 2017, 05:05:01 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 13, 2017, 01:59:44 PM
Quote from: kkt on June 13, 2017, 01:21:13 PM
St. Louis. At the meeting place of east and west, and north and south.
Because of California's geography, there's not really one crossroads. I guess Bakersfield if I had to pick someplace.
I would use Sacramento for California.
Pretty far north, though. You wouldn't go through it just going between the two major metro areas.
K. So let's have two: Sacramento, and Los Angeles. I don't think Bakersfield, nor San Francisco would qualify, as they only have one 2di (OP requires two 2di's). Hell, Barstow would qualify over Bakersfield.
Bakersfield should have I-40.
Quote from: roadguy2 on June 13, 2017, 05:36:49 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on June 13, 2017, 05:14:20 PM
Quote from: kkt on June 13, 2017, 05:05:01 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 13, 2017, 01:59:44 PM
Quote from: kkt on June 13, 2017, 01:21:13 PM
St. Louis. At the meeting place of east and west, and north and south.
Because of California's geography, there's not really one crossroads. I guess Bakersfield if I had to pick someplace.
I would use Sacramento for California.
Pretty far north, though. You wouldn't go through it just going between the two major metro areas.
K. So let's have two: Sacramento, and Los Angeles. I don't think Bakersfield, nor San Francisco would qualify, as they only have one 2di (OP requires two 2di's). Hell, Barstow would qualify over Bakersfield.
Bakersfield should have I-40.
I don't think we're allowed to discuss that. See here: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=1809.msg40545#msg40545 (third paragraph).
I don't think it matters for the purposes of which city is the "crossroads" whether the roads that cross are state routes, US routes, or interstates. Bakersfield as the crossroads of CA 58 and CA 99 works okay for me.
Quote from: jakeroot on June 13, 2017, 06:02:50 PM
Quote from: roadguy2 on June 13, 2017, 05:36:49 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on June 13, 2017, 05:14:20 PM
Quote from: kkt on June 13, 2017, 05:05:01 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 13, 2017, 01:59:44 PM
Quote from: kkt on June 13, 2017, 01:21:13 PM
St. Louis. At the meeting place of east and west, and north and south.
Because of California's geography, there's not really one crossroads. I guess Bakersfield if I had to pick someplace.
I would use Sacramento for California.
Pretty far north, though. You wouldn't go through it just going between the two major metro areas.
K. So let's have two: Sacramento, and Los Angeles. I don't think Bakersfield, nor San Francisco would qualify, as they only have one 2di (OP requires two 2di's). Hell, Barstow would qualify over Bakersfield.
Bakersfield should have I-40.
I don't think we're allowed to discuss that. See here: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=1809.msg40545#msg40545 (third paragraph).
Whoops. Well, I still think Bakersfield is the crossroads of California.
Quote from: kkt on June 13, 2017, 07:59:28 PM
I don't think it matters for the purposes of which city is the "crossroads" whether the roads that cross are state routes, US routes, or interstates. Bakersfield as the crossroads of CA 58 and CA 99 works okay for me.
I was just going off the OP:
Quote from: webny99 on June 01, 2017, 09:05:23 PM
You can choose any city or intersection of two 2-dis, except Indianapolis :D And explain your logic.
That said, as long as we're on the topic of the Crossroads of each
state, I think the rule should be widened to include all route types. Surely at least one state has only one 2di?
EDIT: I still believe Sac-town would be a better choice. There's a direct freeway to most major cities in the state: 80 to San Francisco, 5 north to Oregon or south to Los Angeles/San Diego, 99 south towards Bakersfield, US-50 towards Lake Tahoe, etc.
Quote from: jakeroot on June 13, 2017, 09:59:26 PM
Quote from: kkt on June 13, 2017, 07:59:28 PM
I don't think it matters for the purposes of which city is the "crossroads" whether the roads that cross are state routes, US routes, or interstates. Bakersfield as the crossroads of CA 58 and CA 99 works okay for me.
I was just going off the OP:
Quote from: webny99 on June 01, 2017, 09:05:23 PM
You can choose any city or intersection of two 2-dis, except Indianapolis :D And explain your logic.
That said, as long as we're on the topic of the Crossroads of each state, I think the rule should be widened to include all route types. Surely at least one state has only one 2di?
It looks like there's only one: Maine has one 2di, I-95.
Nevada comes close though. Its two 2dis, 80 and 15, don't intersect in Nevada, but in Utah.
Quote from: roadguy2 on June 13, 2017, 10:05:09 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on June 13, 2017, 09:59:26 PM
Quote from: kkt on June 13, 2017, 07:59:28 PM
I don't think it matters for the purposes of which city is the "crossroads" whether the roads that cross are state routes, US routes, or interstates. Bakersfield as the crossroads of CA 58 and CA 99 works okay for me.
I was just going off the OP:
Quote from: webny99 on June 01, 2017, 09:05:23 PM
You can choose any city or intersection of two 2-dis, except Indianapolis :D And explain your logic.
That said, as long as we're on the topic of the Crossroads of each state, I think the rule should be widened to include all route types. Surely at least one state has only one 2di?
It looks like there's only one: Maine has one 2di, I-95.
Nevada comes close though. Its two 2dis, 80 and 15, don't intersect in Nevada, but in Utah.
Rhode Island and Delaware also have only I-95.
Quote from: jakeroot on June 13, 2017, 09:59:26 PM
That said, as long as we're on the topic of the Crossroads of each state, I think the rule should be widened to include all route types. Surely at least one state has only one 2di?
Nebraska comes really really close -- I-29 never enters the state, and I-76 (Western) barely leaves I-80 still within Nebraska
Not a separate state, but the UP of Michigan only has one 2di, the northern terminus of I-75
The correct answer is obvious and I am surprised that no one has mentioned it yet. Des Moines, Ia. I-80 is by default the "main" east-west Interstate as I-90 is too far north and I-10 is too far south and Interstates 20, 30, 40, and 70 do not run from coast to coast. I-35 is the central north-south Interstate. I-35 and I-80 meet at Des Moines in a location that while not precisely in the center of the 48 states is none the less about equally accessible to just about all the other major population centers of the North American continent. i.e. There is fairly direct (as in you can get there with out a lot of complicated zigs and zags) high speed super highway access to just about every other major urban area. San Francisco, Salt Lake City, Omaha, Davenport, Chicago, Toledo, Cleveland, New York, San Antonio, Austin, Dallas/Fort Worth, Oklahoma City, Wichita, Kansas City, Minneapolis/Saint Paul and Duluth can all be reached direct with NO route changes at all. And Los Angeles via Denver and Las Vegas is nearly direct as is Seattle or Portland via Salt Lake City and Boise. To the east Detroit, Washington, Philadelphia, Boston Buffalo and even Toronto and Montreal are just as direct. Only the cities to the southeast require a few sharp turns to get to and even then only really at Davenport where I-74 provides a fairly direct link to St. Louis, Nashville, Atlanta, Charlotte, Orlando, Miami and just about anywhere else you might want to go.
Quote from: Thunderbyrd316 on June 13, 2017, 10:15:38 PM
The correct answer is obvious and I am surprised that no one has mentioned it yet. Des Moines, Ia...There is fairly direct (as in you can get there with out a lot of complicated zigs and zags) high speed super highway access to just about every other major urban area...Only the cities to the southeast require a few sharp turns to get to and even then only really at Davenport where I-74 provides a fairly direct link to St. Louis, Nashville, Atlanta, Charlotte, Orlando, Miami and just about anywhere else you might want to go.
Would not the Avenue of the Saints be competitive to get to St Louis from Des Moines? Thats (mostly) the route that Google Maps picks for the trip, tho instead of I-80 East direct to the Avenue South, it uses IA-163, US 63, and US-34 to reach the Avenue, on a SE trajectory leaving Des Moines
Quote from: roadguy2 on June 13, 2017, 02:01:12 PM
Quote from: epzik8 on June 13, 2017, 12:00:45 PM
Kansas City. I-70, I-35, I-29 and I-49.
And US 24, 40, 50, 56, 69, 71, 73, and 169.
Well, that's way too many intersecting routes to be a crossroads. It should be only two, presumably a main N/S one and a main E/W one.
Quote from: empirestate on June 15, 2017, 09:21:30 PM
Quote from: roadguy2 on June 13, 2017, 02:01:12 PM
Quote from: epzik8 on June 13, 2017, 12:00:45 PM
Kansas City. I-70, I-35, I-29 and I-49.
And US 24, 40, 50, 56, 69, 71, 73, and 169.
Well, that's way too many intersecting routes to be a crossroads. It should be only two, presumably a main N/S one and a main E/W one.
I think some people (including myself) disagree that a crossroads can only be two roads. Indianapolis is known as the crossroads of america because of the multiple interstates that intersect there.
In most cases, I would find it hard to argue that a city at the intersection of two interstates would be more important than a city at the intersection of multiple interstates. I think Kansas City is a fair choice because of all the roads listed above.
Quote from: 7/8 on June 15, 2017, 09:45:22 PM
Quote from: empirestate on June 15, 2017, 09:21:30 PM
Quote from: roadguy2 on June 13, 2017, 02:01:12 PM
Quote from: epzik8 on June 13, 2017, 12:00:45 PM
Kansas City. I-70, I-35, I-29 and I-49.
And US 24, 40, 50, 56, 69, 71, 73, and 169.
Well, that's way too many intersecting routes to be a crossroads. It should be only two, presumably a main N/S one and a main E/W one.
I think some people (including myself) disagree that a crossroads can only be two roads. Indianapolis is known as the crossroads of america because of the multiple interstates that intersect there.
In most cases, I would find it hard to argue that a city at the intersection of two interstates would be more important than a city at the intersection of multiple interstates. I think Kansas City is a fair choice because of all the roads listed above.
I agree with this. IMO, the more major highways intersect in one town, the more of a crossroads it is. If it brings in traffic from a lot of surrounding areas on a lot of different highways, then lots of different people going different directions will cross paths there. That's what makes a city a "crossroads".
After some more thinking, I understand the difference in opinion. Some people are looking for one specific intersection, while others are thinking of the city as a whole. I was personally thinking of the second option, but I can see why some people might see the first interpretation.
I would say Kansas City would be the winner since it is the closest major city with multiple Interstate connections to the actual center point of the contiguous US which is located here:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/The+Geographic+Center+of+the+United+States/@39.9941816,-98.5716901,7.5z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0xde5763fad96b22b3!8m2!3d39.8281595!4d-98.5795444
Quote from: roadguy2 on June 15, 2017, 10:07:00 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on June 15, 2017, 09:45:22 PM
Quote from: empirestate on June 15, 2017, 09:21:30 PM
Quote from: roadguy2 on June 13, 2017, 02:01:12 PM
Quote from: epzik8 on June 13, 2017, 12:00:45 PM
Kansas City. I-70, I-35, I-29 and I-49.
And US 24, 40, 50, 56, 69, 71, 73, and 169.
Well, that's way too many intersecting routes to be a crossroads. It should be only two, presumably a main N/S one and a main E/W one.
I think some people (including myself) disagree that a crossroads can only be two roads. Indianapolis is known as the crossroads of america because of the multiple interstates that intersect there.
In most cases, I would find it hard to argue that a city at the intersection of two interstates would be more important than a city at the intersection of multiple interstates. I think Kansas City is a fair choice because of all the roads listed above.
I agree with this. IMO, the more major highways intersect in one town, the more of a crossroads it is. If it brings in traffic from a lot of surrounding areas on a lot of different highways, then lots of different people going different directions will cross paths there. That's what makes a city a "crossroads".
If that's so, why does the sign for a crossroads only have two crossing roads?
And in any case, regardless of our own views, the original question does allow for only two Interstate routes, if it's an intersection that we're considering.
Quote from: empirestate on June 16, 2017, 09:22:41 PM
If that's so, why does the sign for a crossroads only have two crossing roads?
5-way and 6-way intersections are much more rare than the common 4-way intersection of two crossing roads. A sign labeling a crossroads must be at a single intersection, but calling a city a crossroads allows much more than a pair of roads.
Quote from: 1 on June 16, 2017, 09:43:48 PM
5-way and 6-way intersections are much more rare than the common 4-way intersection of two crossing roads.
Tell that to Grand Ave in Phoenix.
Quote from: 1 on June 16, 2017, 09:43:48 PM
Quote from: empirestate on June 16, 2017, 09:22:41 PM
If that's so, why does the sign for a crossroads only have two crossing roads?
5-way and 6-way intersections are much more rare than the common 4-way intersection of two crossing roads. A sign labeling a crossroads must be at a single intersection, but calling a city a crossroads allows much more than a pair of roads.
That right there probably sums up the ambiguity: because of course, a city is not a crossroads; it's only a metaphor. So then you have to decide what the attributes of a crossroads are that you would want to extend to an entire city. One of those is that there are only two intersecting roads, but that may or may not be what's intended by the metaphor. However, the OP gives a clue that this is indeed a characteristic that's intended here, as one of the options is to nominate a pair (only) of intersecting Interstates. But then again, not all clues lead to the solution.
Then again, some people think of this as a crossroad. :confused:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bigcitybluesmag.com%2FImages%2FCrossroads6149.jpg&hash=bc58d2f242fcdf07a372a1d9486adea6709e0444)
Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on June 17, 2017, 09:56:20 PM
Then again, some people think of this as a crossroad. :confused:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bigcitybluesmag.com%2FImages%2FCrossroads6149.jpg&hash=bc58d2f242fcdf07a372a1d9486adea6709e0444)
Well, where they intersected on Clarksdale, MS, most certainly!
Quote from: empirestate on June 16, 2017, 10:30:49 PM
Quote from: 1 on June 16, 2017, 09:43:48 PM
Quote from: empirestate on June 16, 2017, 09:22:41 PM
If that's so, why does the sign for a crossroads only have two crossing roads?
5-way and 6-way intersections are much more rare than the common 4-way intersection of two crossing roads. A sign labeling a crossroads must be at a single intersection, but calling a city a crossroads allows much more than a pair of roads.
That right there probably sums up the ambiguity: because of course, a city is not a crossroads; it's only a metaphor. So then you have to decide what the attributes of a crossroads are that you would want to extend to an entire city. One of those is that there are only two intersecting roads, but that may or may not be what's intended by the metaphor. However, the OP gives a clue that this is indeed a characteristic that's intended here, as one of the options is to nominate a pair (only) of intersecting Interstates. But then again, not all clues lead to the solution.
cities with interchanges can be crossroads.
Quote from: briantroutman on June 12, 2017, 04:33:22 PM
I think the population centers and corridors of commerce in today's United States are too geographically dispersed for the term "Crossroads of America" to be very meaningful.
Judging by kurumi's Interstate ranking (http://www.kurumi.com/roads/rank2di.html) in the other thread, it would be NYC (Teaneck) then Boston (Weston) then Jacksonville.
For New York, based on that hierarchy, it would be Syracuse, but I think it's Albany.
Quote from: Brandon on June 02, 2017, 05:27:06 AM
Indianapolis has commonly and historically used the term. Joliet, IL, uses the term "Crossroads of Mid-America" (I-55 & 80, previously US-6, 30, & 66).
I believe Shorewood IL uses the phrase "Crossroads of America" as well, seeing as it actually has the I-80 / I-55 interchange in the village boundaries.
I do know their community festival is Crossroads Fest
Quote from: JJBers on June 12, 2017, 12:44:28 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on June 12, 2017, 11:08:55 AM
Quote from: JJBers on June 03, 2017, 06:33:26 PM
Crossroads of New England...Boston, then Hartford.
Lebanon, New Hampshire claims this title.
(https://mark.trademarkia.com/logo-images/lebanon-area-chamber-of-commerce/lebanon-area-chamber-of-commerce-at-the-crossroads-of-new-england-85602533.jpg)
I-89/91 and US 4/5 intersect right across the river in White River Junction, Vermont so Lebanon misses the mark on claiming to be a crossroads of anything by a few miles.
Also, the star on that logo is nowhere near Lebanon.
I-89 and I-91 severe somewhat of the same purpose in New England. I would only see the US 3/4 intersection as somewhat important
I disagree
I-89 serves as a way to connect Boston to Burlington and ultimately Montreal (and of course Burlington to Montreal). I-89 is a very important roadway.
I-91 is an important north to south highway for Western New England but probably not that important in the grand scheme of things (north of Springfield at least).
Their intersection is probably not a good crossroads of New England though and I'd argue that the I-90/91 junction is the Crossroads of New England. I-91 crosses the Mass Pike just north of the last urban center on I-91 (Springfield). I-90 takes you towards Boston, Providence and the more urban Eastern New England whereas I-91 continues north into the woods and mountains of Northern New England.
The Crossroads of America is in Terre Haute, Indiana, at the intersection of Seventh Street and Wabash Avenue. That intersection was the historical junction of US 40, the National Road, and US 41, which travels from north of Chicago to Miami. Indiana's motto came from that intersection, which has a historical marker from the State of Indiana, and not from Indianapolis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossroads_of_America
http://www.in.gov/history/markers/374.htm
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.in.gov%2Fhistory%2Fmarkers%2Fimages%2F8419981.jpg&hash=f868ce94ceeea5eb2ccb77df6b6e832561b255fc)
St. Louis could also be a crossroads of America, simply because of its easy connections to other major cities. When I was there recently, I was surprised to see several large cities as control cities on the various freeways. Those included Kansas City, Chicago, Indianapolis, Louisville, Memphis, Tulsa, etc...
Quote from: pianocello on June 02, 2017, 12:34:20 AM
Taking a quick look at a map, the only cities with more than 6 2di legs radiating out of the metro area are Indianapolis and Chicago. Since we're excluding Indianapolis, I say Chicago.
But really, it's Indy. No question.
Having read very little about Indy except for the 500 and the Colts, I always considered the Windy City the XroA, because of the roads, railroads, and ORD.
ixnay
Quote from: roadguy2 on June 25, 2017, 12:43:25 AM
St. Louis could also be a crossroads of America, simply because of its easy connections to other major cities. When I was there recently, I was surprised to see several large cities as control cities on the various freeways. Those included Kansas City, Chicago, Indianapolis, Louisville, Memphis, Tulsa, etc...
Indianapolis has a lot of large cities that seem distant as control cities on the Interstates leaving it. Chicago, Peoria, St. Louis, Louisville, Cincinnati, Dayton/Columbus*, Fort Wayne on existing signs, with Evansville probably to come in the future eventually if not something further south on I-69.
It is impressive especially when you are used to control cities that are much more local.
*Columbus on older signs, Dayton on newer ones for I-70 leaving to the east
I never understood the use of Peoria for I-74 west.
As opposed to what? Peoria is the largest community along I-74 in that direction.
Quote from: tdindy88 on June 25, 2017, 07:32:03 PM
As opposed to what? Peoria is the largest community along I-74 in that direction.
If it was up to me I'd use Champaign as the control city. Champaign and Urbana put together are about the same size as Peoria, it has 3 interstates, and the University of Illinois.
Quote from: tdindy88 on June 25, 2017, 07:32:03 PM
As opposed to what? Peoria is the largest community along I-74 in that direction.
Champaign. It's a decent-sized city and a significant interstate intersection.
Quote from: PurdueBill on June 25, 2017, 05:34:52 PM
Quote from: roadguy2 on June 25, 2017, 12:43:25 AM
St. Louis could also be a crossroads of America, simply because of its easy connections to other major cities. When I was there recently, I was surprised to see several large cities as control cities on the various freeways. Those included Kansas City, Chicago, Indianapolis, Louisville, Memphis, Tulsa, etc...
Indianapolis has a lot of large cities that seem distant as control cities on the Interstates leaving it. Chicago, Peoria, St. Louis, Louisville, Cincinnati, Dayton/Columbus*, Fort Wayne on existing signs, with Evansville probably to come in the future eventually if not something further south on I-69.
It is impressive especially when you are used to control cities that are much more local.
*Columbus on older signs, Dayton on newer ones for I-70 leaving to the east
The interstates in Louisville use Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Lexington, Nashville and St. Louis as control cities so I don't think Indy is really rare in that regard.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mob-rule.com%2Fbigmap.gif&hash=c63c8eeeb2d236a1751d299d2563465c3626aea4)