OK, other than the regular "waving" of your hand signaling good bye or the well known use of one's "middle-finger" of the hand :-D what I am stating here is the use of your "left hand/arm" to use for signaling while driving.
The other day I was stunned to see another driver, yes.....using hand signals while operating a motor vehicle! :hmmm:
Now mind you, the vehicle that the individual was driving was fairly not that old (like 2-3 years) but still the driver stuck his left arm out the window to signal a left turn. Then when coming to a stop, slid his left arm down to the side of his door to signal a stop. :-D
The last time that I had ever seen drivers using their arms for signaling was back in the late 60's to early 70's.
Anyone here on AARoads still use arm signaling when operating a motor vehicle?
I thought people only do this if their turn signal is broken.
I will use my hand to signal a lane change to the left in heavy traffic, if I'm next to another car who doesn't notice my signal, and I'm trying to merge in. Kind of a friendly "hey, I want in".
Plenty of motorcyclists use hand signals.
Dittoing Jakeroot's behavior, sort of. If I'm working on my driver's tan, and it's less effort to stick my arm out the window to signal a desired lane change than take my arm off the door to reach the turn signal lever. And occasionally if there's heavy traffic ahead, as I take my foot of the gas I'll use the down-angled arm motion before my foot hits the brake. But again, only because my arm is already getting a tan. I certainly do these more often since my stick shift HHR was rear ended several months ago and I exclusively drive an automatic. But the left arm sticking up to indicate a right turn? No way.
Quote from: csw on June 14, 2017, 10:25:40 PM
Plenty of motorcyclists use hand signals.
My other half does when we are out on the motorcycle, but there's also this neat little invention on the handlebars called a "turn signal." I'm usually all about that, seeing as I like pushing buttons. A lot of people don't know that cars have 'em too ... it's that lever conveniently located on the left side of the steering wheel.
My dad, however, would have answered your question, "Yes." :bigass:
Quote from: 7/8 on June 14, 2017, 08:33:15 PM
I thought people only do this if their turn signal is broken.
This is what I did back when my previous car was having electrical problems while I worked as a delivery driver (turned out something was wrong with the signal switch inside the steering column — it would blink rapidly as if a bulb were burnt out, which wasn't the case, or just simply not work at all). I felt silly but I knew I was doing the right thing.
The other day I met a big lawn mower on a 4-way stop... Driver used proper hand signal to show his intentions.
I am not sure if that vehicle would be allowed on public roads, but since he went from one lawn to another one within the same campus I doubt anyone would really care about fine print.
Quote from: jakeroot on June 14, 2017, 08:38:42 PM
I will use my hand to signal a lane change to the left in heavy traffic, if I'm next to another car who doesn't notice my signal, and I'm trying to merge in. Kind of a friendly "hey, I want in".
I've done similar typically for lane changes/merges as opposed to turns; especially if the other driver
might think that I accidentally left my turn signal on (i.e. the
eternal blinker (
blinkah for Bay State drivers :-D )).
Quote from: PHLBOS on June 15, 2017, 09:17:44 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on June 14, 2017, 08:38:42 PM
I will use my hand to signal a lane change to the left in heavy traffic, if I'm next to another car who doesn't notice my signal, and I'm trying to merge in. Kind of a friendly "hey, I want in".
I've done similar typically for lane changes/merges as opposed to turns; especially if the other driver might think that I accidentally left my turn signal on (i.e. the eternal blinker (blinkah for Bay State drivers :-D )).
For bay area, you may end up being guilty causing an accident once a motorcycle crashes into your hand..
Quote from: kalvado on June 15, 2017, 10:21:56 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on June 15, 2017, 09:17:44 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on June 14, 2017, 08:38:42 PM
I will use my hand to signal a lane change to the left in heavy traffic, if I'm next to another car who doesn't notice my signal, and I'm trying to merge in. Kind of a friendly "hey, I want in".
I've done similar typically for lane changes/merges as opposed to turns; especially if the other driver might think that I accidentally left my turn signal on (i.e. the eternal blinker (blinkah for Bay State drivers :-D )).
For bay area, you may end up being guilty causing an accident once a motorcycle crashes into your hand..
That's a bit backwards isn't it? If the motorcycle is coming from behind & riding between lanes; isn't it that rider's responsibility to maintain a reasonable buffer from vehicles (& items) in front (& to the side) of him. Additionally, isn't riding a motorcycle between lanes illegal in most instances?
Quote from: 7/8 on June 14, 2017, 08:33:15 PM
I thought people only do this if their turn signal is broken.
In my 39+ years of driving, I've used hand signals exactly three times. The first time was during my driver's test, where it was required. The other two times were when one of my turn signals failed.
I saw a motorcycle rider using proper hand signals and my first thought was "wow, I didn't realize anyone still did that anymore", with my second thought "wow, I bet no one understands those any more."
When I was young my father had a hot rod that did not have turn signals, and so used hand signals when turning. He later built a different hot rod that had turn signals.
People also randomly stick their hands out of their windows for no reason. I don't think I've ever seen an intentional hand signal in my life, and certainly have not used them myself (though I'm careful not to stick my hand out in such a way that it might look like one).
I use hand signals on my bicycle (hardly anyone else seems to), and I get the impression that many motorists don't even know what I'm doing.
I had a thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=12597.0) some time ago asking whether, in a modern vehicle with perfectly functioning turn signals, the elective use of hand signals alone still satisfies the legal requirement to signal a turn or lane change. The consensus seemed to be that an elective hand signal probably was sufficient–but I suspect we'd get varying answers if we polled law enforcement officers.
But if the elective use of hand signals in a modern vehicle is legal, that would seem to be quite a loophole. Federal standards dictate the brightness, viewable angle, flash rate, surface area, color, and other aspects of turn signal lamps–which have been federally mandated for decades. And somehow Cletus hanging his arm out the window is enough to circumvent decades of federal regulations?
The last time I had to use hand signals was having to demonstrate it in drivers' training.
Quote from: PHLBOS on June 15, 2017, 11:08:08 AM
Quote from: kalvado on June 15, 2017, 10:21:56 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on June 15, 2017, 09:17:44 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on June 14, 2017, 08:38:42 PM
I will use my hand to signal a lane change to the left in heavy traffic, if I'm next to another car who doesn't notice my signal, and I'm trying to merge in. Kind of a friendly "hey, I want in".
I've done similar typically for lane changes/merges as opposed to turns; especially if the other driver might think that I accidentally left my turn signal on (i.e. the eternal blinker (blinkah for Bay State drivers :-D )).
For bay area, you may end up being guilty causing an accident once a motorcycle crashes into your hand..
That's a bit backwards isn't it? If the motorcycle is coming from behind & riding between lanes; isn't it that rider's responsibility to maintain a reasonable buffer from vehicles (& items) in front (& to the side) of him. Additionally, isn't riding a motorcycle between lanes illegal in most instances?
Since you mentioned
bay - and I am sorry I read bay
area - aka San Francisco area -not bay
state - I commented about lane splitting being explicitly legal in California.
Quote from: kkt on June 15, 2017, 12:29:53 PM
The last time I had to use hand signals was having to demonstrate it in drivers' training.
I don't remember learning this in my driver's ed course, and I know it wasn't on either of my in-car tests.
I very briefly owned a 1976 Subaru in 2006 that I bought for $200 that did not have functioning turn signals, and used hand signals when I drove it.
Otherwise, the only time I've used them was when I'm steering the aft car in a broken down vehicle pulled by another vehicle with a tow strap.
I use them when driving a golf cart or mower on public roads (believe there is an exemption allowing them on <30mph roads in my area). I feel 90% confident that 90% of other drivers have no idea what I'm doing... especially since 90% of them seem to not understand the electronic turn signals. I did the left turn signal today in my golf cart to indicate to the car behind me I was stopping and making my left, and the opposing traffic thought I was trying to tell them to stop.
Quote from: PHLBOS on June 15, 2017, 11:08:08 AM
Quote from: kalvado on June 15, 2017, 10:21:56 AM
For bay area, you may end up being guilty causing an accident once a motorcycle crashes into your hand..
That's a bit backwards isn't it? If the motorcycle is coming from behind & riding between lanes; isn't it that rider's responsibility to maintain a reasonable buffer from vehicles (& items) in front (& to the side) of him. Additionally, isn't riding a motorcycle between lanes illegal in most instances?
Ignoring the misunderstanding of Bay Area vs Bay State, it's still the responsibility of drivers to not impede the travel of a motorcycle that is riding between lanes (in California). If you stick your hand out while a motorcycle is riding by, and he crashes as a result, you might be held responsible.
Quote from: briantroutman on June 15, 2017, 12:21:52 PM
But if the elective use of hand signals in a modern vehicle is legal, that would seem to be quite a loophole. Federal standards dictate the brightness, viewable angle, flash rate, surface area, color, and other aspects of turn signal lamps–which have been federally mandated for decades. And somehow Cletus hanging his arm out the window is enough to circumvent decades of federal regulations?
Requirements to signal are state law. That's hardly the first instance of a state law foiling the well-made plans of the mice and men in Washington...
I'm in Chicagoland. They don't even know how to use electronic signals properly around here, so forget it when it comes to hand signals.
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 16, 2017, 04:09:04 AM
Quote from: briantroutman on June 15, 2017, 12:21:52 PM
But if the elective use of hand signals in a modern vehicle is legal, that would seem to be quite a loophole. Federal standards dictate the brightness, viewable angle, flash rate, surface area, color, and other aspects of turn signal lamps–which have been federally mandated for decades. And somehow Cletus hanging his arm out the window is enough to circumvent decades of federal regulations?
Requirements to signal are state law. That's hardly the first instance of a state law foiling the well-made plans of the mice and men in Washington...
You also have to remember that older cars are grandfathered into current traffic, so certification requirements as of today and actual traffic as of today may be very different with 10-15-20 years old cars still being on the road.
Quote from: davewiecking on June 14, 2017, 10:41:43 PM
Dittoing Jakeroot's behavior, sort of. If I'm working on my driver's tan, and it's less effort to stick my arm out the window to signal a desired lane change than take my arm off the door to reach the turn signal lever. And occasionally if there's heavy traffic ahead, as I take my foot of the gas I'll use the down-angled arm motion before my foot hits the brake. But again, only because my arm is already getting a tan. ...
I have done the same on rare occasions, one time when I was in front of a cop. I saw in the mirror that he did a double-take and then started laughing.
Quote from: briantroutman on June 15, 2017, 12:21:52 PM
But if the elective use of hand signals in a modern vehicle is legal, that would seem to be quite a loophole. Federal standards dictate the brightness, viewable angle, flash rate, surface area, color, and other aspects of turn signal lamps–which have been federally mandated for decades. And somehow Cletus hanging his arm out the window is enough to circumvent decades of federal regulations?
I'm curious to know if broken signals need to be repaired. Like, if your bumper falls off, your car isn't roadworthy until the bumper is re-fastened. How about blinkers? If they don't work, are you allowed to drive the car? I would think so, as you can still signal with your hand. But maybe not?
^ In Pennsylvania, anyway, a burned out bulb or any other fault in the directional indicator system would cause a vehicle to fail its required annual safety inspection–and therefore, be illegal to drive.
Quote from: briantroutman on June 16, 2017, 06:13:56 PM
^ In Pennsylvania, anyway, a burned out bulb or any other fault in the directional indicator system would cause a vehicle to fail its required annual safety inspection–and therefore, be illegal to drive.
Same in Virginia, although we can avoid inspection on certain cars (mainly those eligible for antique status). It doesn't exempt those cars from the requirement to have working blinkers, but one can get around that.
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 16, 2017, 09:15:16 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on June 16, 2017, 06:13:56 PM
^ In Pennsylvania, anyway, a burned out bulb or any other fault in the directional indicator system would cause a vehicle to fail its required annual safety inspection–and therefore, be illegal to drive.
Same in Virginia, although we can avoid inspection on certain cars (mainly those eligible for antique status). It doesn't exempt those cars from the requirement to have working blinkers, but one can get around that.
AFAIK, once a car is 25 years old, any and all requirements to pass an inspection no longer matter. I swear you could drive around with just the frame of the car and it would still be legal.
^ Perhaps some states phase out inspections after a number of years, but that's not the case in Pennsylvania. If you had a forty-year-old Dodge Aspen as a daily driver, it would still have to pass all applicable standards for tire tread depth, body integrity, and so on....plus an emissions inspection.
PennDOT does have an Antique plate that can be obtained for cars over 25 years old, and Antique-plated vehicles are exempted from safety and emissions inspections. But there are a few catches. Officially, the car must be "...maintained in or restored to a condition which is substantially in conformance with manufacturer specifications." The bigger restriction is usage, which is limited to "...participation in club activities, exhibits, tours, parades, occasional transportation and similar uses." State law spells out "occasional transportation" as being less than one day per week.
Quote from: jakeroot on June 16, 2017, 11:20:48 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 16, 2017, 09:15:16 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on June 16, 2017, 06:13:56 PM
^ In Pennsylvania, anyway, a burned out bulb or any other fault in the directional indicator system would cause a vehicle to fail its required annual safety inspection–and therefore, be illegal to drive.
Same in Virginia, although we can avoid inspection on certain cars (mainly those eligible for antique status). It doesn't exempt those cars from the requirement to have working blinkers, but one can get around that.
AFAIK, once a car is 25 years old, any and all requirements to pass an inspection no longer matter. I swear you could drive around with just the frame of the car and it would still be legal.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimcdb.org%2Fimages%2F086%2F858.jpg&hash=268470f88c1a354c77ddc739c62b0de417a7a7d4)
The only people I see still using hand signals are motorcyclists and even that's rare.
I thought a vehicle in certain states without turn signals was classified as "not road worthy"?
Quote from: 7/8 on June 17, 2017, 01:16:23 AMAFAIK, once a car is 25 years old, any and all requirements to pass an inspection no longer matter. I swear you could drive around with just the frame of the car and it would still be legal.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimcdb.org%2Fimages%2F086%2F858.jpg&hash=268470f88c1a354c77ddc739c62b0de417a7a7d4)
So THAT'S what became of my old Chrysler ...
Quote from: renegade on June 17, 2017, 12:11:48 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on June 17, 2017, 01:16:23 AMAFAIK, once a car is 25 years old, any and all requirements to pass an inspection no longer matter. I swear you could drive around with just the frame of the car and it would still be legal.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimcdb.org%2Fimages%2F086%2F858.jpg&hash=268470f88c1a354c77ddc739c62b0de417a7a7d4)
So THAT'S what became of my old Chrysler ...
Perfect!
Quote from: 7/8 on June 17, 2017, 01:16:23 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on June 16, 2017, 11:20:48 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 16, 2017, 09:15:16 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on June 16, 2017, 06:13:56 PM
^ In Pennsylvania, anyway, a burned out bulb or any other fault in the directional indicator system would cause a vehicle to fail its required annual safety inspection–and therefore, be illegal to drive.
Same in Virginia, although we can avoid inspection on certain cars (mainly those eligible for antique status). It doesn't exempt those cars from the requirement to have working blinkers, but one can get around that.
AFAIK, once a car is 25 years old, any and all requirements to pass an inspection no longer matter. I swear you could drive around with just the frame of the car and it would still be legal.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimcdb.org%2Fimages%2F086%2F858.jpg&hash=268470f88c1a354c77ddc739c62b0de417a7a7d4)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6rGMNtXHgs
Quote from: briantroutman on June 17, 2017, 01:12:42 AM
^ Perhaps some states phase out inspections after a number of years, but that's not the case in Pennsylvania. If you had a forty-year-old Dodge Aspen as a daily driver, it would still have to pass all applicable standards for tire tread depth, body integrity, and so on....plus an emissions inspection.
IIRC, the emissions inspections/testing are only required in certain PA counties & only on '75 or newer gasoline-powered vehicles. So somebody still using a '72 Torino as a daily driver registered in Lancaster County is only subject to the safety inspection (i.e one sticker on the windshield vs. two).
Massachusetts also requires an annual safety inspection for all its vehicles w/standard registrations (i.e. not an antique) regardless of age/vintage.
Quote from: jakeroot on June 16, 2017, 11:20:48 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 16, 2017, 09:15:16 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on June 16, 2017, 06:13:56 PM
^ In Pennsylvania, anyway, a burned out bulb or any other fault in the directional indicator system would cause a vehicle to fail its required annual safety inspection—and therefore, be illegal to drive.
Same in Virginia, although we can avoid inspection on certain cars (mainly those eligible for antique status). It doesn't exempt those cars from the requirement to have working blinkers, but one can get around that.
AFAIK, once a car is 25 years old, any and all requirements to pass an inspection no longer matter. I swear you could drive around with just the frame of the car and it would still be legal.
In Massachusetts, a vehicle 25 or more years old is exempt from the emissions requirements, but still has to pass the safety inspection. And a failed turn signal bulb will get you a 'fail' on the safety inspection.
Quote from: PHLBOS on June 19, 2017, 11:07:22 AM
IIRC, the emissions inspections/testing are only required in certain PA counties & only on '75 or newer gasoline-powered vehicles.
Correct on both counts.
The pre-1975 exemption is why was careful to select an Aspen in my example, a model which Chrysler introduced in 1976. And admittedly, the required emissions testing on such old vehicles is cursory–a check of fuel cap integrity and a visual inspection to verify that original emissions control equipment hasn't been tampered with.
Current regulations require emissions testing in 25 of the Commonwealth's 67 counties, although those counties make up approximately 80% of the state's (human) population. Even if we adjust for the higher car to human ratio in the rural counties which aren't covered by the emissions testing program, I'd guess that the number would still be 75% or higher.
Quote from: jakeroot on June 16, 2017, 05:55:05 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on June 15, 2017, 12:21:52 PM
But if the elective use of hand signals in a modern vehicle is legal, that would seem to be quite a loophole. Federal standards dictate the brightness, viewable angle, flash rate, surface area, color, and other aspects of turn signal lamps–which have been federally mandated for decades. And somehow Cletus hanging his arm out the window is enough to circumvent decades of federal regulations?
I'm curious to know if broken signals need to be repaired. Like, if your bumper falls off, your car isn't roadworthy until the bumper is re-fastened. How about blinkers? If they don't work, are you allowed to drive the car? I would think so, as you can still signal with your hand. But maybe not?
I was involved in an accident in PA which damaged my rear bumper. After all the details were written up, the cop on the scene ripped what was left of the bumper off, handed it to me, and told me to drive home. I didn't ask him to put it in writing, but drove home (into NJ) without any trouble from the cops.
I remember my aunt using these signals in the '80s. I don't think her car had turn signals.
Do it all the time on my bicycle.
As far as driving goes, it appears that 50% of the turn signals in Illinois are broken, but nobody uses the hand signals.
Quote from: roadman on June 19, 2017, 11:50:24 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on June 16, 2017, 11:20:48 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 16, 2017, 09:15:16 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on June 16, 2017, 06:13:56 PM
^ In Pennsylvania, anyway, a burned out bulb or any other fault in the directional indicator system would cause a vehicle to fail its required annual safety inspection–and therefore, be illegal to drive.
Same in Virginia, although we can avoid inspection on certain cars (mainly those eligible for antique status). It doesn't exempt those cars from the requirement to have working blinkers, but one can get around that.
AFAIK, once a car is 25 years old, any and all requirements to pass an inspection no longer matter. I swear you could drive around with just the frame of the car and it would still be legal.
In Massachusetts, a vehicle 25 or more years old is exempt from the emissions requirements, but still has to pass the safety inspection. And a failed turn signal bulb will get you a 'fail' on the safety inspection.
Safety inspections seem to be more common out east. Here in Washington, as with most western states, apart from Nevada (according to this page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_inspection_in_the_United_States)), do not require safety inspections. Emissions testing is required on diesel vehicles older than 2007, and petrol vehicles older than 2009, but only until the car is 25 years old. At that point, you're scot-free. No inspection of any kind is required after that point. I'm pretty sure you can get stopped if any required features (like lights) are broken, but no real inspection is ever performed.
Quote from: jakeroot on June 19, 2017, 07:35:37 PMEmissions testing is required on diesel vehicles older than 2007
Really? Such is usually the opposite in other areas; i.e. older diesel-powered vehicles were exempt from emissions testing mainly because such vehicles were not equipped with any emission-control devices.
Quote from: jakeroot on June 19, 2017, 07:35:37 PMand petrol vehicles older than 2009, but only until the car is 25 years old.
For most East Coast states; once a new car becomes a year old, it's subject to emissions testing (in states/counties that require such).
Quote from: PHLBOS on June 20, 2017, 11:13:47 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on June 19, 2017, 07:35:37 PMEmissions testing is required on diesel vehicles older than 2007
Really? Such is usually the opposite in other areas; i.e. older diesel-powered vehicles were exempt from emissions testing mainly because such vehicles were not equipped with any emission-control devices.
Quote from: jakeroot on June 19, 2017, 07:35:37 PMand petrol vehicles older than 2009, but only until the car is 25 years old.
For most East Coast states; once a new car becomes a year old, it's subject to emissions testing (in states/counties that require such).
*diesel vehicles less than 6000lbs, until they're 25 years old. I believe the vehicles only have to meet the standards for the year they were produced.
I'm not sure why newer vehicles are exempt. There's no explanation given online.
Quote from: inkyatari on June 19, 2017, 05:22:35 PM
Do it all the time on my bicycle.
As far as driving goes, it appears that 50% of the turn signals in Illinois are broken, but nobody uses the hand signals.
Man things must have really changed since I left the area. Back then EVERYBODY used hand signals. Middle finger up meant what you think it does, 1st finger at the side of the road means pull over so I can kick your ass, hand out (palm up) means WTF are you doing you stupid idiot?!?!?! I'm sure there were others that I forgot after a quarter century of being away. :happy:
Quote from: PHLBOS on June 20, 2017, 11:13:47 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on June 19, 2017, 07:35:37 PMand petrol vehicles older than 2009, but only until the car is 25 years old.
For most East Coast states; once a new car becomes a year old, it's subject to emissions testing (in states/counties that require such).
PA is very old school in those regulations, which requires a car to undergo full emissions and safety testing every year. NJ and DE don't require them for the first 5 years, and after that, NJ only requires emissions testings now every 2 years.
But glancing around, I was amazed how many states on the east coast still require annual inspections...even though there's nothing that shows annual inspections are any safer than bi-annual (or fewer) inspections.
In PA, all inspections are done at private garages, so there's a financial incentive by those garages to keep cars coming in, regardless if it's really needed. And it seems like cars in PA have an unusual number of failed inspections, such as windshield wipers needing replacing and brakes that that need resurfacing. And when a mechanic 'finds' a problem, the owner of the vehicle is basically held hostage until those repairs are done.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 04, 2017, 08:36:40 AMIn PA, all inspections are done at private garages, so there's a financial incentive by those garages to keep cars coming in, regardless if it's really needed.
Similar is done in MA as well. However, unlike PA, the
basic inspection costs (i.e. if the vehicle passes & doesn't need anything)
is the same regardless of which garage one goes to; whereas in PA, the basic inspection rates wildly vary from garage to garage.