Is there any such thing??
2-lane toll bridges definitely exist, like NY 23 crossing the Hudson. Also, some former turnpikes (like those in the 19th century) were definitely no more than 2 lanes in width, although the concept of lanes might not have existed back then. Not sure about current toll roads that aren't toll bridges.
There's the short Chickasaw Turnpike (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chickasaw_Turnpike) in Oklahoma.
The Hal Rogers (formerly Daniel Boone) Parkway in Kentucky, and the easternmost 32 miles of the Mountain Parkway, were toll roads until the tolls were removed. Also, the West Virginia Turnpike was two lanes until it was widened in the 1980s.
The Chickasaw Turnpike in Oklahoma, TX Loop 49 around Tyler, TX, and a leg of FL 570 northeast of Lakeland, FL are all currently-existing examples.
Former examples existed in Kentucky (tolls taken off), West Virginia (widened to 4 lanes) and Florida (widened to 4 lanes). There may be other examples in the Florida panhandle that aren't specifically water crossings.
In a previous thread on non-freeway toll roads, I had noted Mosey Wood Road (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=9359.msg218431#msg218431) near White Haven, PA. It's a mere two lanes, doesn't remotely resemble a freeway, and is privately owned.
What are we defining as a "toll road"? If we're including roads to the tops of mountains, NY 431 in Wilmington and NY 917A in Lake George count. Both are technically state-maintained.
Quote from: fillup420 on June 17, 2017, 01:00:25 PM
Is there any such thing??
Mexico has a lot of super-2 toll roads.
In Texas there's Toll 49, as mentioned above. It isn't actually Loop 49 because TxDOT removed the designation when it turned over the right-of-way to a regional toll authority, which named it Toll 49. There's also the southern part of Chisholm Trail Parkway. It's a two-lane road with passing lanes (2 passing lanes on each side over the 13 miles).
They are actually fairly common place. I actually took FL 293 on a recent trip which happens to be a two-lane road and even has the correct State Shield to boot.
iPhone
Would national park roads considered as toll? if so, then there are many two lanes toll roads inside US, of course those roads offers something unique in landscape and worth visit, same to the 17 mile drive in california.
As mentioned, there are too many toll roads in Mexico, called super roads (super carretera), which works as like 3 lane road, you use shoulder to let the incoming traffic overtake or to allow to pass, it might sound dangerous but works perfectly and allows you to travel faster. There's only two narrow toll roads, one near Compostela and another near Taxco.
Quote from: Jbte on June 17, 2017, 02:47:43 PM
Would national park roads considered as toll? if so, then there are many two lanes toll roads inside US, of course those roads offers something unique in landscape and worth visit, same to the 17 mile drive in california.
As mentioned, there are too many toll roads in Mexico, called super roads (super carretera), which works as like 3 lane road, you use shoulder to let the incoming traffic overtake or to allow to pass, it might sound dangerous but works perfectly and allows you to travel faster. There's only two narrow toll roads, one near Compostela and another near Taxco.
Funny that was what we were talking about on the 17 Mile Drive thread. I think that there really two ways to interpret the definition; one by what is maintained by a DOT, and the other by anything road wise that would include a fee to use. I'd say stuff like National Parks with scenic roads in addition to the 17 Mile Drives/Pikes Peak Highway would fit the bill...in addition to being two-lanes.
iPhone
I wouldn't consider roads in a national park to be toll roads. You pay an entry fee, not a road use fee. To me, the difference is that you get a permit that allows entry into the park for a certain period of time. The cost is the same regardless of how many times you use the road or how far you go, unlike a toll road. Also, you may enter and leave the park at the same place, in which case use of the road is only incidental to getting access to the park.
In a similar way, I don't consider International Parkway, the main road through DFW Airport, to be a toll road. You go through a booth to get a ticket and pay when you leave, but what you pay is like a parking fee. It increases with the amount of time the vehicle is inside the airport. The road can be used as a toll road, since it provides a shortcut, but the airport (slightly) discourages that by charging a dollar more than minimum fee if you get from one end to the other quickly. Also, it's common to enter and leave at the same place, so use of the road is again secondary to entry, which is what you're really paying for.
Regarding scenic roads, to me the difference is based on whether you pay for an entry permit that's good for a period of time, or whether you pay for each use of the road, as with other toll roads.
Quote from: fillup420 on June 17, 2017, 01:00:25 PM
Is there any such thing??
Certainly the Antioch Bridge CASR-160 in California (from Contra Costa to Sacramento County)
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 17, 2017, 02:53:19 PM
Quote from: Jbte on June 17, 2017, 02:47:43 PM
Would national park roads considered as toll? if so, then there are many two lanes toll roads inside US, of course those roads offers something unique in landscape and worth visit, same to the 17 mile drive in california.
As mentioned, there are too many toll roads in Mexico, called super roads (super carretera), which works as like 3 lane road, you use shoulder to let the incoming traffic overtake or to allow to pass, it might sound dangerous but works perfectly and allows you to travel faster. There's only two narrow toll roads, one near Compostela and another near Taxco.
Funny that was what we were talking about on the 17 Mile Drive thread. I think that there really two ways to interpret the definition; one by what is maintained by a DOT, and the other by anything road wise that would include a fee to use. I'd say stuff like National Parks with scenic roads in addition to the 17 Mile Drives/Pikes Peak Highway would fit the bill...in addition to being two-lanes.
iPhone
What about toll roads that function as urban freeways or connectors, but are maintained by a private company? Such as E-470 in CO, or Adams Ave Pkwy in UT. Would those count as DOT style toll roads? Or would they be their own third class of toll road?
The approaches to the F.S. Key Bridge (signed I-695, but really MD-695) south of Baltimore were Super-2 roads from the time that the bridge opened in 1977 for many years (the bridge itself was designed and constructed as four lane divided). These were several miles in length and have always been under MDTA ownership.
The approach from the east (Sparrows Point and Edgemere areas of Baltimore County) was reconstructed from Super-2 to a conventional 4 lane freeway in the 1990's.
There's a toll road around Lakeland, Florida, that has a two-lane section on its eastern side with a toll plaza located in the middle of the two-lane section.
FL-570, Auburndale, FL 33823
https://goo.gl/maps/wKjwTv8uyM82
Quote from: cpzilliacus on June 18, 2017, 08:58:24 AM
The approaches to the F.S. Key Bridge (signed I-695, but really MD-695) south of Baltimore were Super-2 roads from the time that the bridge opened in 1977 for many years (the bridge itself was designed and constructed as four lane divided). These were several miles in length and have always been under MDTA ownership.
The approach from the east (Sparrows Point and Edgemere areas of Baltimore County) was reconstructed from Super-2 to a conventional 4 lane freeway in the 1990's.
The Outer Harbor Crossing, an 11-mile-long toll facility between MD-10 Arundel Freeway and MD-151 North Point Boulevard, was opened to traffic on March 23, 1977, and this completed the Baltimore Beltway. The Outer Harbor Crossing was planned as a two-lane freeway on four-lane right-of-way, with a single-tube two-lane 6,200-foot-long harbor tunnel. The two-lane freeway was placed under construction, the causeways (landfill for roadway across a water body) for the tunnel portals were built, and when the tunnel was advertised for construction in 1970, the bids received on July 30, 1970 were so high that it was determined that a four-lane high-level bridge could be built for about the same cost as the revised estimate for the tunnel project, about $50 million. So the bridge was built, well-known to motorists as the Francis Scott Key Bridge.
The south approach was widened to four lanes by 1981.
The north approach was widened to four lanes in 2000.
Quote from: roadguy2 on June 18, 2017, 12:17:40 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 17, 2017, 02:53:19 PM
Quote from: Jbte on June 17, 2017, 02:47:43 PM
Would national park roads considered as toll? if so, then there are many two lanes toll roads inside US, of course those roads offers something unique in landscape and worth visit, same to the 17 mile drive in california.
As mentioned, there are too many toll roads in Mexico, called super roads (super carretera), which works as like 3 lane road, you use shoulder to let the incoming traffic overtake or to allow to pass, it might sound dangerous but works perfectly and allows you to travel faster. There's only two narrow toll roads, one near Compostela and another near Taxco.
Funny that was what we were talking about on the 17 Mile Drive thread. I think that there really two ways to interpret the definition; one by what is maintained by a DOT, and the other by anything road wise that would include a fee to use. I'd say stuff like National Parks with scenic roads in addition to the 17 Mile Drives/Pikes Peak Highway would fit the bill...in addition to being two-lanes.
iPhone
What about toll roads that function as urban freeways or connectors, but are maintained by a private company? Such as E-470 in CO, or Adams Ave Pkwy in UT. Would those count as DOT style toll roads? Or would they be their own third class of toll road?
Yes, because they are normal roads. They are simply maintained by a private company. They still need to adhere to FHWA and MUTCD standards.
Orchard Pond Parkway near Tallahassee, Florida.
Poinciana Parkway near Orlando.
Up at Cedar Point, Sandusky Ohio, if one was to use the CP Causeway to access the Cedar Point Road (the pre-causeway way to CP and the back way into the park from US-6) or vice versa, a small toll is charged. If you plan to stay at Cedar point, they charge you for parking which is tacked onto the toll. The "old route" is a residental two-lane road.
Quote from: thenetwork on July 01, 2017, 09:46:42 PM
Up at Cedar Point, Sandusky Ohio, if one was to use the CP Causeway to access the Cedar Point Road (the pre-causeway way to CP and the back way into the park from US-6) or vice versa, a small toll is charged.
But that's four lanes.
Quote from: NE2 on July 01, 2017, 09:49:45 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on July 01, 2017, 09:46:42 PM
Up at Cedar Point, Sandusky Ohio, if one was to use the CP Causeway to access the Cedar Point Road (the pre-causeway way to CP and the back way into the park from US-6) or vice versa, a small toll is charged.
But that's four lanes.
You're either going from a 2-lane to a 4-lane road or from a 4-lane to a 2-lane. The booth to pay a toll only to go between the two roads is also on a 2 lane stretch.of road.
Skyline Drive. Even though it is in a National Park, you have to pay to use it.
CT 2A would've been a good example of this, but there hasn't been any tolls since the 80s
Quote from: amroad17Skyline Drive. Even though it is in a National Park, you have to pay to use it.
As noted upthread, you're paying a park use fee, not a road fee, so this doesn't really apply in the normal toll road sense.
I've mentioned this twice before over the years, but there is a road literally called "Toll Road" in Salisbury, MA. It is two lanes. (The road does not have a toll; it leads to tolled I-95 in New Hampshire, but there is a free exit first.)
How about the Caminio Colombia in South Texas?
https://www.txtag.org/en/about/tollroad_colombia.shtml
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_State_Highway_255
Quote from: DevalDragon on July 02, 2017, 06:16:53 PM
How about the Caminio Colombia in South Texas?
https://www.txtag.org/en/about/tollroad_colombia.shtml
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_State_Highway_255
This is a valid example. I should have thought of that one. However, there's now an explanation necessary. The tolls have been suspended until the end of the month due to repairs on a Laredo bridge, and the legislature passed a bill that prohibits charging tolls for this road beginning Sept. 1. This means that tolls will no longer be charged for use of this road except during the month of August this year.
The Beasley's Point Bridge. And it was a private bridge. :bigass:
Park loop road in Acadia. Counts because you can access the park without paying.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on July 02, 2017, 09:08:50 PM
The Beasley's Point Bridge. And it was a private bridge. :bigass:
Shitloads of two-lane bridges. Yawn.
Quote from: thenetwork on July 01, 2017, 11:31:51 PM
Quote from: NE2 on July 01, 2017, 09:49:45 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on July 01, 2017, 09:46:42 PM
Up at Cedar Point, Sandusky Ohio, if one was to use the CP Causeway to access the Cedar Point Road (the pre-causeway way to CP and the back way into the park from US-6) or vice versa, a small toll is charged.
But that's four lanes.
You're either going from a 2-lane to a 4-lane road or from a 4-lane to a 2-lane. The booth to pay a toll only to go between the two roads is also on a 2 lane stretch.of road.
Actually, the booth is at the entry to the parking lot for most people except those going to the hotels. Yes, north of there, it is a two-lane road, but the toll is for the use of the four-lane causeway, at the north end of said four-lane causeway.
How broadly versus granularly do we define "toll road"? The Spaulding Turnpike in New Hampshire is only two lanes north of exit 16. However, the only toll collection is at a pair of barriers - one between exits 6 and 7, the other between exits 9 and 11. So broadly speaking it's a toll road with a two lane portion. But, there are no tolls collected directly on the two lane portion, so you could also look at it as a mostly free road with two tolled segments, both of which are four lanes.
Quote from: cl94 on June 17, 2017, 01:42:18 PM
What are we defining as a "toll road"? If we're including roads to the tops of mountains, NY 431 in Wilmington and NY 917A in Lake George count. Both are technically state-maintained.
On that note, The Mount Washington Auto Road up Mount Washington in New Hampshire.
Quote from: roadgeek01 on July 03, 2017, 08:09:55 PM
Quote from: cl94 on June 17, 2017, 01:42:18 PM
What are we defining as a "toll road"? If we're including roads to the tops of mountains, NY 431 in Wilmington and NY 917A in Lake George count. Both are technically state-maintained.
On that note, The Mount Washington Auto Road up Mount Washington in New Hampshire.
And the Pikes Peak Highway in Colorado.
The Mount Washington Auto Road is on par with the National Park roads and so goes back to that debate...is it a road fee? Or a park user fee? In the case of Mount Washington, I'd consider it a latter as it's effectively a park fee for Mount Washington State Park (yes, the auto road and the mountain are a state park).
Quote from: froggie on July 06, 2017, 08:51:23 PM
The Mount Washington Auto Road is on par with the National Park roads and so goes back to that debate...is it a road fee? Or a park user fee? In the case of Mount Washington, I'd consider it a latter as it's effectively a park fee for Mount Washington State Park (yes, the auto road and the mountain are a state park).
Or perhaps park fee and/or toll road?
Lots of people use Skyline Drive for the drive itself, and maybe lunch at Big Meadows or Skyland. Easy to do in a day trip if you live in the D.C. or Richmond area.
There are also cabins and lodges for extended stays.
I proposed two considerations on this matter:
Is your primary purpose, and what you're paying for, use of the road or access to the park? If the road is just up and down a mountain then your use of the road is only incidental to accessing the park. If the road doesn't go anywhere other than the park and leaves you back where you started, then the only purpose of the road is access to the park. Other than that purpose, it isn't worth paying for. If it's a through road and your primary purpose is to get to the other side, then maybe it's an extra scenic toll road.
Do you pay for each use of the road or do you get a permit that's good for a period of time? While some toll roads sell multi-use passes, most charge per use. If you get a seven-day permit that allows you to use the road as much as you want, I'd call it an entrance fee. If you pay each for each use and use the road to get somewhere on the other side of the park, it's more likely to qualify as a road toll. Of course, all various types of combinations are possible. If you're driving across a beautiful park to get somewhere it's reasonable to stop or maybe even take a side trip and enjoy the scenery. Whether it's a park fee or road fee can be different at different times, or it can be a combination of both.
Quote from: 1 on July 02, 2017, 10:06:29 AM
I've mentioned this twice before over the years, but there is a road literally called "Toll Road" in Salisbury, MA. It is two lanes. (The road does not have a toll; it leads to tolled I-95 in New Hampshire, but there is a free exit first.)
While looking through historic topo maps (no aerial maps were available between 1938 & 1962), Toll Road was the Massachusetts connector to the southern terminus of the New Hampshire Turnpike prior to the mid-50s completion of I-95 in that area.
Side bar: the NH 107 interchange w/I-95 (Exit 1, the last exit prior to the NH Turnpike toll plaza) wasn't built until the late 60s.
The Norwegian road system has many toll tunnels and bridges that are only two lanes. Congestion charges generally also apply to two-lane roads or any surface streets, though you could argue it is a general tax and not a toll to fund the road you're using.
Japan has a lot of tolled super two expressways. Many national roads in South America are tolled, most of them are two-lane roads. This is common in countries like Ecuador or Paraguay. Ecuador has significantly improved the condition of its main roads by charging tolls to fund reconstruction. China also charges tolls on many non-expressways (the 'G' national trunk road network). China has in fact the largest network of toll roads in the world at some 100,000 miles, about a third of that are non-expressways.
Russia has a distance-based truck toll called 'Platon' that applies to most federal roads, many of those are two-lane roads. The German truck toll has also been expanded two non-Autobahn federal roads / Bundesstraßen in recent years.
There are one lane toll roads. Gravel roads take a toll on your car.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 09, 2017, 10:01:49 PM
There are one lane toll roads. Gravel roads take a toll on your car.
Except if you driving a 4x4, or any off-road vehicle.
Yes I know it's a joke.
Quote from: wxfree on July 02, 2017, 07:58:00 PM
Quote from: DevalDragon on July 02, 2017, 06:16:53 PM
How about the Caminio Colombia in South Texas?
https://www.txtag.org/en/about/tollroad_colombia.shtml
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_State_Highway_255
This is a valid example. I should have thought of that one. However, there's now an explanation necessary. The tolls have been suspended until the end of the month due to repairs on a Laredo bridge, and the legislature passed a bill that prohibits charging tolls for this road beginning Sept. 1. This means that tolls will no longer be charged for use of this road except during the month of August this year.
The Texas Transportation Commission has adopted a minute order removing the toll project designation. The tolls were already suspended until the end of the month, and become illegal in September. The minute order makes no mention of an effective date (its own effective date) so presumably is effective immediately meaning that tolls will no longer be charged, and this example is no longer valid.
Quote from: JJBers on July 09, 2017, 10:03:45 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 09, 2017, 10:01:49 PM
There are one lane toll roads. Gravel roads take a toll on your car.
Except if you driving a 4x4, or any off-road vehicle.
Yes I know it's a joke.
Really dirt and gravel is only a problem if it is poorly maintained. Ruts, pot holes, dips, and wash boarding generally the biggest problem on non-asphalt surfaces. Usually all that it really takes even a car is just to drive more slowly, especially with wash boarding. There are plenty of one-lane road examples that I can think of in the National Park system that might fall under the broader definition of a "toll" road. Now I would be interested to see if there are any true dirt/gravel roadways that are still used as toll routes, they used to be very common before modern highways.