This fellow doesn't seem happy with what a Delaware town did to him...
http://delawarestatenews.net/news/irked-motorist-calls-town-kenton-ticket-mill/
If there's already a thread on this topic, the mods can feel free to move this post there.
ixnay
Such a thread needs to have a mention of Hopewell, Virginia and its speed trap on I-295.
A previous thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=11034.0) discussed abusive speed limit enforcement generally and small-town speed traps in particular, including Hopewell.
Any small town along the 2-lane portions of US 421 in southern-central NC.
Definitely Harrington and Greenwood (both DE) and Emporia, VA. Generally speed traps on arterials are worse than the ones on freeways in my experience
Watch out for tickets in Port Orford OR. Tiny town. US 101 is THE main drag. The city budget calls for $160K income from tickets. Cops don't care about the crankers and their crime but they sure do love to play the revenue game. Then add in Oregon State Police camping in town to give their share of tickets when they should be out patrolling a poorly patrolled unincorporated Curry County.
This is the most heavily watched section of US 101 I know of.
Rick
Waldo, FL is legendary.
One of the most legendary was the now-defunct New Rome, Ohio.
All speed enforcement, whether done by a small town, a big city, or the state; and whether it constitutes 1% or 99% of the jurisdiction's income; and whether it wastes 1% or 100% of the cops time from serious useful police work, is illigitimate.
Quote from: plain on July 17, 2017, 09:40:34 PM
Definitely Harrington and Greenwood (both DE) and Emporia, VA. Generally speed traps on arterials are worse than the ones on freeways in my experience
You can basically add any small town that US 13 and 113 run through in DE to the list. Here you are cruising down the road at 55 and all the sudden you have to drop 35 (or even 25 in some towns!!) and hope you do so in time or hope there isn't a cop lurking (esp in the aforementioned Harrington.
At present, PA prohibits local police departments (including Philadelphia) from using radar speed enforcement (they can use other means such as VASCAR (http://www.vascar.com/) and so forth); only PA State Police can use radar. For VASCAR enforcement, the speed threshold is 10 mph; for radar enforcement, the threshold drops to 6-7 mph. The reasoning for the ban on local police (some boroughs are only 3 blocks long) using radar was to keep local police from (over)using speed traps to enhance revenue.
Quote from: SP Cook on July 18, 2017, 11:08:12 AM
All speed enforcement, whether done by a small town, a big city, or the state; and whether it constitutes 1% or 99% of the jurisdiction's income; and whether it wastes 1% or 100% of the cops time from serious useful police work, is illigitimate.
You know, I find such thinking quite dangerous. There is a need to enforce speed limit on fastest batch of drivers; and there is a need to show the presence of police on the road. Realistic speed limit as opposed to current.. OK, don't get me started.
Now that ticketing quotas - which seem to be the way road patrols are managed - are definitely bad. I would think about undesired events rate (crashes, crimes) as a metric for police performance, and allow internal forces to work. That would move patrols from long straight stretches where traffic speed is higher to problematic spots. But probably there is a catch-22 somewhere - catch which I don't see or understand...
Nah, if speed enforcement were about anything but $$, the $$ would not be the penalty. Imagine is SL violations were punished by, say, community service, or a fine (all of it, including those phony court costs) that goes to someone unrelated to the jurisdiction (say to the Red Cross or something) or simply by forcing the driver to sit beside the road for an hour before proceding and thus "give back" the time he "stole". Then that would be a legimate system. And 99.9% of speed enforcement would cease and most SLs would be raised to proper levels.
But that will never happen. Becasue speed enforcement is a random tax. Basiclly it is theft.
Virginia
Not necessarily a small town Waukesha WI (pop 70,000) is notorious for writing lots of traffic tickets. I got one for the most minor infraction possible that most police departments would give warnings for. About 99% of the traffic stops result in tickets.
Quote from: dvferyance on July 18, 2017, 01:39:20 PM
I got one for the most minor infraction possible that most police departments would give warnings for.
What was that?
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 18, 2017, 01:40:26 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on July 18, 2017, 01:39:20 PM
I got one for the most minor infraction possible that most police departments would give warnings for.
What was that?
Turned right on red where there was a posted sign. I missed the sign becasue the intersection wasn't familiar and the sign wasn't posted in it's usual place. I think they probably did that unpurpose. The sign was posted below on the pole of the light instead on the arm right next to the traffic light like it normally is. I really didn't even see where the safety issue was. There was no visibility issue the intersection was not by a school or railroad tracks and there wasn't an angled street that came through there. But none the less no matter if it was unintentional or how minor it is the police in Waukesha will always write a ticket. Seems to me the sign was just placed there to give the police another reason to write more tickets.
All of these posts again prove the wisdom of having a good radar detector. I've found mine to be of far more benefit in areas off the freeway.
There was a fairly well-known one in a town called Big Cabin on US-69 in northeastern OK about ten years ago.
Until one day they nabbed a state legislator. Oooooops.
Dude goes back to Oklahoma City and writes up a bill that says if X% of a town's revenue comes from traffic tickets, they lose the right for their town's police to patrol any state highways for so many years. Passes the legislature with flying colors and the governor signs it.
Big Cabin lost their police presence on US-69, as did a few other towns that were doing the same thing. One had to file bankruptcy and disincorporate (shades of New Rome).
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 18, 2017, 01:53:23 PM
There was a fairly well-known one in a town called Big Cabin on US-69 in northeastern OK about ten years ago.
Until one day they nabbed a state legislator. Oooooops.
Dude goes back to Oklahoma City and writes up a bill that says if X% of a town's revenue comes from traffic tickets, they lose the right for their town's police to patrol any state highways for so many years. Passes the legislature with flying colors and the governor signs it.
Big Cabin lost their police presence on US-69, as did a few other towns that were doing the same thing. One had to file bankruptcy and disincorporate (shades of New Rome).
Breaks my heart so much, I have the world's smallest violin to play for them.
Quote from: SP Cook on July 18, 2017, 01:26:48 PM
Nah, if speed enforcement were about anything but $$, the $$ would not be the penalty. Imagine is SL violations were punished by, say, community service, or a fine (all of it, including those phony court costs) that goes to someone unrelated to the jurisdiction (say to the Red Cross or something) or simply by forcing the driver to sit beside the road for an hour before proceding and thus "give back" the time he "stole". Then that would be a legimate system. And 99.9% of speed enforcement would cease and most SLs would be raised to proper levels.
But that will never happen. Becasue speed enforcement is a random tax. Basiclly it is theft.
Well, speed enforcement is also about making pretext stops, damned IV amendment inhibits normal police operations!
But removing speed enforcement as a concept (as opposed to significant change of current enforcement practices) is not wise, I would say
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 18, 2017, 01:53:23 PM
There was a fairly well-known one in a town called Big Cabin on US-69 in northeastern OK about ten years ago.
Until one day they nabbed a state legislator. Oooooops.
Dude goes back to Oklahoma City and writes up a bill that says if X% of a town's revenue comes from traffic tickets, they lose the right for their town's police to patrol any state highways for so many years. Passes the legislature with flying colors and the governor signs it.
Big Cabin lost their police presence on US-69, as did a few other towns that were doing the same thing. One had to file bankruptcy and disincorporate (shades of New Rome).
That bill about killed Stringtown. I can remember MC Leist used to stand up in the OK House in the mid 90's and give a weekly report on how many tickets the city cops in Stringtown had written on US 69 the previous week. If he wasn't the original author, I'm sure he was a co-author of the bill.
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on July 17, 2017, 10:58:37 PM
Waldo, FL is legendary.
Waldo PD has been disbanded. Alachua County Sheriffs Department covers law enforcement. So the speed trap there is no more.
About 20 miles north on 301 Lawtey still has strict enforcement. Starke will soon be bypassed by a freeway portion of 301. So the trio of speedtraps eill be reduced to 1
LGMS428
Quote from: hbelkins on July 18, 2017, 01:48:36 PM
All of these posts again prove the wisdom of having a good radar detector. I've found mine to be of far more benefit in areas off the freeway.
And to quote LM117 earlier in this thread:
Quote from: LM117 on July 18, 2017, 01:28:49 PM
Virginia
I don't get how they can constitutionally get away with having a law banning radar detectors.
Quote from: ekt8750 on July 18, 2017, 02:49:32 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 18, 2017, 01:48:36 PM
All of these posts again prove the wisdom of having a good radar detector. I've found mine to be of far more benefit in areas off the freeway.
And to quote LM117 earlier in this thread:
Quote from: LM117 on July 18, 2017, 01:28:49 PM
Virginia
I don't get how they can constitutionally get away with having a law banning radar detectors.
What does the constitution say about radar detectors?
Quote from: ekt8750 on July 18, 2017, 02:49:32 PM
Quote from: LM117 on July 18, 2017, 01:28:49 PM
Virginia
I don't get how they can constitutionally get away with having a law banning radar detectors.
If the ownership of certain firearms can be prohibited despite the presence of the Second Amendment, then there's certainly nothing that can prohibit the banning of radar detectors.
The fact is that lots of things are banned -- ownership of exotic animals comes to mind. My mother had a pet monkey when she was growing up and that's now illegal in Kentucky.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 18, 2017, 03:01:59 PM
Quote from: ekt8750 on July 18, 2017, 02:49:32 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 18, 2017, 01:48:36 PM
All of these posts again prove the wisdom of having a good radar detector. I've found mine to be of far more benefit in areas off the freeway.
And to quote LM117 earlier in this thread:
Quote from: LM117 on July 18, 2017, 01:28:49 PM
Virginia
I don't get how they can constitutionally get away with having a law banning radar detectors.
What does the constitution say about radar detectors?
I may be wrong... but I believe there was a supreme court case in WWII days, where ability to receive radio transmission was upheld as freedom of speech. If someone else transmits, then you can use a receiver, and government may not prohibit that. Transmission is heavily regulated, though. As such, non-transmitting receiver - aka radar detector - must be fully legal.
In case someone would challenge that, an old soviet practice of muting "Voice of America" transmissions may be brought up as an example of how totalitarian governments deal with that.
Now there are some fine print details about using mobile receivers, using receivers for illegal activities (monitoring of police frequency is OK, monitoring police frequency as part of bank robbery is not) and so on...
Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 17, 2017, 07:49:21 PM
Such a thread needs to have a mention of Hopewell, Virginia and its speed trap on I-295.
Those assholes are proud of it too. :banghead:
http://www.progress-index.com/news/20161001/another-chance-for-hopewells-million-dollar-mile (http://www.progress-index.com/news/20161001/another-chance-for-hopewells-million-dollar-mile)
QuoteHOPEWELL – The storied "Million-Dollar Mile" of Interstate 295 may once again become a path to prosperity for Hopewell.
For a decade, the 3.3 miles of I-295 below the Appomattox River that wind erratically between the city of Hopewell and Prince George County have sat at the center of a statewide controversy over the extent to which localities should be allowed to profit from patrolling state and federally funded roads. In 2012, the General Assembly attempted to resolve the issue by instituting a new policy that would siphon off a gradually increasing percentage of the traffic fines localities collected each year. The more local governments collected from traffic tickets, the more they were likely to lose to the state.
Drivers eager to avoid fines were delighted by the change. Local governments, particularly those traversed by interstates or heavily trafficked state roads, were less happy, arguing that the move was yet another instance of the state pulling badly needed funds out of communities still reeling from the recession.
This past spring, local governments won the latest battle over the state's major roads when the General Assembly abruptly reversed its course, returning to its former stance that localities are entitled to keep the fines and fees they collect for violations of local ordinances.
"We've sent a message loud and clear that this is a local issue, that we're not infringing on the State Police in any form," said Del. Riley Ingram, the Republican representative for Hopewell in the House of Delegates and one of the sponsors of the 2016 bill that axed the practice of remitting local fines and fees to the state.
"Local governments have got to have money," he said simply. "There's no question about it."
Fuck Ingram. :verymad:
^^ Illinois solved that issue years ago. All traffic ticket fines go to the state first, then part of it is disbursed to the municipality or county.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 17, 2017, 07:49:21 PM
A previous thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=11034.0) discussed abusive speed limit enforcement generally and small-town speed traps in particular, including Hopewell.
Thank you.
ixnay
Quote from: jwolfer on July 18, 2017, 02:13:38 PM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on July 17, 2017, 10:58:37 PM
Waldo, FL is legendary.
Waldo PD has been disbanded. Alachua County Sheriffs Department covers law enforcement. So the speed trap there is no more.
About 20 miles north on 301 Lawtey still has strict enforcement. Starke will soon be bypassed by a freeway portion of 301. So the trio of speedtraps eill be reduced to 1
LGMS428
That's good to hear. Me and my dad used to go through there every spring while going to Tampa to watch spring training baseball. Starke still has all those fast food places along 301.
Quote from: Sctvhound on July 18, 2017, 11:17:31 PM
Quote from: jwolfer on July 18, 2017, 02:13:38 PM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on July 17, 2017, 10:58:37 PM
Waldo, FL is legendary.
Waldo PD has been disbanded. Alachua County Sheriffs Department covers law enforcement. So the speed trap there is no more.
About 20 miles north on 301 Lawtey still has strict enforcement. Starke will soon be bypassed by a freeway portion of 301. So the trio of speedtraps eill be reduced to 1
LGMS428
That's good to hear. Me and my dad used to go through there every spring while going to Tampa to watch spring training baseball. Starke still has all those fast food places along 301.
My parents live about 20 miles from Starke.. People there are worried about missing out on all the tourist/through traffic. Florida towns back in the 1950s wanted the us highways built thru town.. I wish they built bypasses like otjer states
I hope 301 doesnt become a suburban blvd like 27 near Clermont
LGMS428
Does Virginia allow localities to set speed limits on state highways?
I know that state and US routes inside independent cities are locally-maintained (hence some of the unusual signage that can be found) but it was my understanding that the commonwealth maintains all interstate mileage. I also know that states do things differently, but in Kentucky, the state alone sets speed limits on state-maintained roads (there may be exceptions for Fayette and Jefferson counties). We will work with localities if a city council or fiscal court asks a speed limit be lowered, but in the end, it's KYTC's decision.
Quote from: hbelkins on July 19, 2017, 10:06:19 AM
Does Virginia allow localities to set speed limits on state highways?
I've always wondered about that as well. I know localities have a hell of a lot of leeway when it comes to traffic enforcement. Localities are allowed to adopt sections of the Code of Virginia into their own local codes, which means localities keep most of the money from tickets, including those written for Reckless Driving. Greensville County has been doing that and I'm sure others are as well.
Virginia really screwed up when they raised the maximum speed limit on interstates to 70 a few years ago without raising the Reckless Driving threshold above 80. Because of that, towns along interstates like Hopewell and Emporia are making a killing off of RD charges, as well as the lawyers since their services are almost always required to get RD charges reduced to speeding charges. That's why they successfully fought like hell against numerous attempts to raise the RD limit. They flat out admitted that, to use their term, "fiscal impact" was a major concern with raising the RD limit. Thanks to our gutless General Assembly, the greedy bastards win every time.
Virginia should never have raised the speed limit to 70 without including a provision that raised the RD limit, IMO.
At least you know that anytime an agency talks about the fiscal impact, they are abandoning all pretense that speed enforcement is done for safety reasons.
Cornersville TN lost their ability to enforce traffic violations on I-65. There was a law written such a way that it only applies to Cornersville but not by name. There was on the books for Coopertown but they disbanded their police department if I can recall.
The funny thing about that is that any elected Constable can run radar on the interstate and collect a fee. The fee they collect goes to pay themselves. Then you have a municipal "professional" full time police department that cannot do the very same thing sans collect a fee to pay themselves directly.
I don't know if they're still doing it, but back when I still lived a few towns away, Sun, Louisiana was one of the most notorious speed traps in southeastern Louisiana. Everybody knew if you were traveling along LA 21, that the moment you saw the city limit sign, you slowed down because they would ticket for ANYTHING above the speed limit. Even so little as 1 MPH over. I'd personally drop it to 40 while passing through.
It's a perfect storm for it, too. LA 21 is 65 mph on either side of town, but drops to 45 within the town limits. It's also a major route between St. Tammany Parish and Bogalusa, in Washington Parish to the north, with no good alternatives.
Quote from: ixnay on July 17, 2017, 06:44:12 PM
This fellow doesn't seem happy with what a Delaware town did to him...
http://delawarestatenews.net/news/irked-motorist-calls-town-kenton-ticket-mill/
If there's already a thread on this topic, the mods can feel free to move this post there.
ixnay
All they really need to do is go back several years to when the town was doing a lot better financially before the large taxpayers left. If the town shows that they are still collecting the same amount in ticket revenue as before, then they're just doing what they've always been doing. But if suddenly ticket revenue jumps 100% or more, then there's a legit grip here. The roads surely can't be more dangerous now even though presumably fewer people travelling on said roads (due to the businesses closing down).
Quote from: Brandon on July 18, 2017, 05:14:38 PM
^^ Illinois solved that issue years ago. All traffic ticket fines go to the state first, then part of it is disbursed to the municipality or county.
Massachusetts has a similar system regarding local traffic citations, whereby a percentage of the fines go to the state. The upside is that it minimizes the incidence of communities implementing random taxation methods. The downside is that it discourages many communities with limited police forces - and some with adequate police forces (cough - Boston - cough) from actively pursuing effective traffic enforcement.
Quote from: hbelkins on July 19, 2017, 12:47:37 PM
At least you know that anytime an agency talks about the fiscal impact, they are abandoning all pretense that speed enforcement is done for safety reasons.
Yep. They spent many years spewing their "safety" BS until they finally realized that nobody was buying what they were selling, so they decided to admit what we knew from the get-go. Now that VA raised the max speed limit to 70, the Reckless Driving limit will never be raised because they're too busy shooting fish in a barrel. :banghead:
I remember driving through one of the small one-horse towns on US-58 on my way to Norfolk a couple of years ago (I forget which town) and as soon as I got in town limits, I was greeted by a bunch of "Speed checked by radar", "Speed enforced by aircraft", "Speed checked by Lidar & Vascar" signs. I thought to myself "that's a hell of a way to welcome someone to town!".
Little ol' Chatham a few miles north of me greets you in similar fashion coming into town on US-29 Business.
Any city in Jefferson County Missouri. You know what, how about the entire county in general?
Mantua, UT is notorious for this. The 60mph speed limit on the 89/91 expressway drops to 55, and there are tons of cops there.
There was a bill a couple years ago in the UT legislature that would limit speeding tickets to 25% or less of the city's revenue, but I don't think it passed.
Oklahoma passed a law a while back that mandated speed limit drops to no more than 10 mph every 1000 or so. At least you now get fair warning when on US81 approaching Rush Springs. The city cop would sit in the median and catch you coming over the hill where it used to drop from 70 to 45 with no warning.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 18, 2017, 11:00:30 AM
One of the most legendary was the now-defunct New Rome, Ohio.
But now it's Brice OH.
Quote from: rte66man on July 19, 2017, 04:16:11 PM
Oklahoma passed a law a while back that mandated speed limit drops to no more than 10 mph every 1000 or so. At least you now get fair warning when on US81 approaching Rush Springs. The city cop would sit in the median and catch you coming over the hill where it used to drop from 70 to 45 with no warning.
Interesting. I always knew the gradual speed-limit drops were unique to Oklahoma, but I didn't realize we had a law requiring them.
I don't know if they still do it but Lennon, Michigan just north of I-69 along M-13 the speed limit goes from 55 down to 35 and there is usually a cop there. I haven't ever seen a cop going into Bay City, Michigan but the speed limit on M-25 drops from 70 to 45.