in another thread, HB posted this photo:
Quote from: hbelkins on December 14, 2009, 12:36:07 AM
Here's a 395 for you. There are three text-based route number guide signs left in Kentucky. Two of them are at this exit...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.millenniumhwy.net%2F2009_Ky_So_Ind%2FImages%2F192.jpg&hash=2c9f562403251d7cf2ea7d4939fa5dfa14e8a7ea)
Does anyone know what the rationale is to avoid shields and use the text-based number representation? The idea shows up in the 1961 AASHO interstate signing guide, without explanation: on one page, a sign with a shield, and on the next one, a text-based sign. So I am guessing the various states picked up the habit, but ... why? Shields look so much better!
I can remember Kentucky using text-based route numbers on the Mountain Parkway, and in two other places. The KY 395 exit on I-64 in Shelby County, and northbound on I-75 at the KY 22 exit at Dry Ridge.
The Mountain Parkway signs got replaced in the mid-1970s (but one of the new signs, westbound at Exit 46, is still text-based).
The I-75 sign survived until a few years ago, when it was replaced when I-75 was widened in that area.
The westbound signs at KY 395 on I-64 were replaced several years ago with shields, but the eastbound text signs (including the one I posted in the contest thread) have survived the widening of I-64 in that area.
New York and Pennsylvania really seem to like them; in fact New York seems to have used them exclusively after the outline-shield style (1958 AASHO spec) was remanded in 1961. Pennsylvania used white-background US and state shields for a little bit of time and then switched to the text.
The only reason I can think of for doing this is space limitations. Maybe a DOT feels it can't fit a standard highway shield on a sign, so it uses text instead?
I agree that it doesn't make much sense. :pan:
I'll check the MUTCD at work tomorrow to see if it still allows this practice.
-----------
One of the few instances where I've seen this in California is in combination with the word "Junction," as in "Junction 85 3/4 mile" on advance guide signs. These are on mostly older signs -- it doesn't appear to be current Caltrans practice. Many of these signs have been upgraded to include shields.
I think California introduced shields to large overhead black signs in 1955; before that, they were all spelled out. I have photos of large overhead that say "U. S. 101" in text (with periods), as well as a 1955 manual showing an example "JUNCTION STATE-24" sign. Then I have a 1955 photo of a black sign with a spade 71 outline shield, so I am thinking California decided (quite rightly) that shields were the way to go.
Interestingly, pole-mounted black signs had the shields as early as the 1930s; it was just the overheads that were spelled out... except for the JUNCTION STATE-24 example, that is a pole-mounted sign intended to be placed on the shoulder. That's the only time I've seen a black sign specify a spelled-out name. Pole-mounted green signs from the 1960s had the spelled-out designation a lot - there was a surviving "US 60-70-99" sign until several years ago, actually.
Nevada DOT occasionally used text instead of shields in the past. Every instance that I'm aware of is/was a freeway application, and was only on a three-line interchange sequence sign. Although this is no longer a practice, many examples still exist.
In Reno on EB I-80, the two interchange sequence signs preceding the US 395 interchange both spell out "US 395". Older interchange sequence signs on NB US 395 used to spell out "Interstate 80"; most of those signs were replaced a few years ago with new ones using shields, but one still remains. There's also one on SB US 395 near the end of the freeway in Reno that says "Mt Rose Hwy SR 431", where nowadays a Nevada shield would be placed before the highway name.
On US 95 in Las Vegas, they did something interesting regarding the interchange sequence signs approaching I-15. On the first one, they spelled out "Interstate 15" on the bottom line. For the next two signs they used an I-15 shield centered between two lines (since there were two ramps), but instead of putting 'north' or 'south' on each line, they listed the control cities of "Salt Lake City" and "Los Angeles". As a youngster, this gave me the impression that LA was only 1/4-mile from Salt Lake. Such signs were replaced on the SB approach with the conclusion of US 95 widening, but are still present on the NB approach.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 14, 2009, 01:16:26 AMNew York and Pennsylvania really seem to like them; in fact New York seems to have used them exclusively after the outline-shield style (1958 AASHO spec) was remanded in 1961. Pennsylvania used white-background US and state shields for a little bit of time and then switched to the text.
I don't think PennDOT was particularly consistent. Every PennDOT signing plan I have seen from the 1960's and 1970's with text designations in place of shields has them just for US and state routes, and there is always a standard plan sheet which specifies US and state route shields for use on guide signs. Typically there is consistency only at the project level. If the contract calls for text designations, these will be used on advance guide and exit direction signs on the freeway mainline, as well as some conventional-road direction signs near the freeway. However, gore signs will use shields. If the contract calls for US and state route shields on advance guide and exit direction signs, these will be used throughout, with no text designations anywhere. For Interstate routes on signs, shields are always used--there are no text designations.
In regard to shields versus text designations generally, I think part of the motivation may have been saving sign panel area. A shield is 36" high and by itself adds 48" to the height of the sign (36" height of the shield plus 12" allowance for spacing from top of shield to the upper sign border). In contradistinction, PennDOT's standard for text designations called for "US" or "PA" 12" high and digits 15" high, so by themselves they added 27" to sign panel height (15" for digits, which control sizing, plus 12" spacing allowance). This is a savings of 21" on sign panel height. The digit height in PennDOT's standard for text designations usually matched the digit height which would be used in shields, so from the standpoint of driver comprehension, the only loss was the removal of a recognizable shape. This, it could be argued, was partly compensated for by color consistency between text color and reflectorization (i.e., no button reflectors in black digits).
New York used all text to note a route for an exit for quite some time. In fact, during the 1970s, it seemed like it was common practice. While NYSDOT uses the route shields now on the guide signs, occasionally you'll see an all text NY route number on a newer sign, since sometimes the sign is replaced in kind.
Quote from: roadfro on December 14, 2009, 03:59:31 AMOn US 95 in Las Vegas, they did something interesting regarding the interchange sequence signs approaching I-15. On the first one, they spelled out "Interstate 15" on the bottom line. For the next two signs they used an I-15 shield centered between two lines (since there were two ramps), but instead of putting 'north' or 'south' on each line, they listed the control cities of "Salt Lake City" and "Los Angeles". As a youngster, this gave me the impression that LA was only 1/4-mile from Salt Lake.
This kind of ambiguity is a problem on interchange sequence signs in general. Nebraska DOR tackles it by adding "EXIT" (in small caps) when a shield and a town appear on the same line but the exit being signed is quite far from the town. E.g. "[N-370 shield] Bellevue EXIT 2," when Bellevue itself is about 12 miles away.
Quote from: mapman on December 14, 2009, 01:18:15 AMI'll check the MUTCD at work tomorrow to see if it still allows this practice.
The current (2003) edition of the
MUTCD still provides dimensions for text designations. For example, for advance guide signs at a category (b) major interchange, text elements of the designation are 12" high, digits are 15" high, while main sign legend is 16" uppercase/12" lowercase (these dimensions BTW are followed exactly in the old PennDOT signing plans I have). Identical dimensions are also provided in the previous edition of the
MUTCD, which is the Millennium edition published in 2000/01.
However--and this is a big
however--signs with text designations are no longer shown in the
MUTCD. Figure 2E-13 in the Millennium
MUTCD is almost completely identical to Figure 2E-15 in the 2003
MUTCD (beyond the incidentals like correct-shape shields, pattern-accurate fonts, etc. in the latter), except for two things: in the 2003 figure the advance guide sign without word "EXIT" on the main sign panel has an exit tab, and the former example sign with text designation now has a shield. These differences (1) emphasize to agencies that exit numbering is now required on non-Interstates and (2) hint that at some future point FHWA will ban text designations.
It is worth noting that the Millennium edition of the
MUTCD is the last edition which would have had to provide for continuing installation of new button copy signs. The revision process that led to the 2003
MUTCD would have been oriented more toward an orderly phaseout of button copy. As argued above, I think the use of button copy was a driver for text designations in many states. At night a text designation is superior to an unframed button-copy shield because the route class is made explicit. Although route class can be communicated by framing the shield with button copy (a practice which was not universal in all button-copy-using states), the use of reflectors in black digits in negative-contrast shield designs "breaks up" the digits visually and makes them more difficult to read by day.
There's one in Baton Rouge:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.static.flickr.com%2F3573%2F3387933312_9ac2a702e6.jpg&hash=b515a720923098671395c982769d3dae9ad1c563)
Illinois (IDOT) seems to only use all text signs on the small signs for overpasses and underpasses or for distance signs noting the distances to the next exit and the next two control cities. Then, they tend to use the following verbage, "Illinois XX", "US XX", and "Interstate XX" where "XX" is the route number. The Tollway (ISTHA) tends to use all text only for the small signs for overpasses and underpasses. They're now in the habit of using shields on distance signs.
Quote from: Brandon on December 14, 2009, 10:37:22 AM
The Tollway (ISTHA) tends to use all text only for the small signs for overpasses and underpasses. They're now in the habit of using shields on distance signs.
But the Illinois 173 interchange signage from the Addams Tollway is all text (at least it was when I passed through at the end of February).
I'm surprised no one's mentioned PA 60 near New Castle which is covered in them.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsabre-roads.org.uk%2Fgallery%2Falbums%2Fuserpics%2F10163%2Fnormal_pa60d.jpg&hash=bea14f3f785b4dc6ecdb7240b0cade189a201b5c) (http://sabre-roads.org.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/10163/pa60d.jpg)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsabre-roads.org.uk%2Fgallery%2Falbums%2Fuserpics%2F10163%2Fnormal_pa60c.jpg&hash=7a5b2c432814f35d202e4ba4eb6db7901783ae9a) (http://sabre-roads.org.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/10163/pa60c.jpg)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsabre-roads.org.uk%2Fgallery%2Falbums%2Fuserpics%2F10163%2Fnormal_pa60b.jpg&hash=64d1b38aa0f0d39bda014cc26f417bfca991d984) (http://sabre-roads.org.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/10163/pa60b.jpg)
Quote from: J N Winkler on December 14, 2009, 04:38:12 AM
saving sign panel area.
I think that might very well be it. It sounds quite plausible, anyway.
Quote from: Truvelo on December 14, 2009, 11:32:01 AM
I'm surprised no one's mentioned PA 60 near New Castle which is covered in them.
I imagine in the next few months most of those will be replaced as part of the I-376 renumbering. I would expect them to have shields. We'll see.
Quote from: Mr_Northside on December 14, 2009, 12:58:58 PMI imagine in the next few months most of those will be replaced as part of the I-376 renumbering. I would expect them to have shields. We'll see.
The contracts have already been let (76609, 76610) for the PennDOT-maintained portion. The signs will have shields, unless they do a really big change order at the absolute last minute.
Quote from: rawmustard on December 14, 2009, 11:19:29 AM
Quote from: Brandon on December 14, 2009, 10:37:22 AM
The Tollway (ISTHA) tends to use all text only for the small signs for overpasses and underpasses. They're now in the habit of using shields on distance signs.
But the Illinois 173 interchange signage from the Addams Tollway is all text (at least it was when I passed through at the end of February).
Now that I think of it, I think you're right. I also think those were in Clearview (of all things). They may have been temporary as the interchange was built, and then they started widening the tollway.
Just looked, and here's a Google Map View of the rarity: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=42.364886,-88.964925&spn=0,359.928074&t=h&z=15&layer=c&cbll=42.365142,-88.964966&panoid=fzDwcIVcWUTdvz-6nZVPTQ&cbp=12,29.7,,0,3.98
The other side seems to have already been replaced with a shield ( {173} West Lake Road).
Quote from: J N Winkler on December 14, 2009, 04:38:12 AM
I don't think PennDOT was particularly consistent. Every PennDOT signing plan I have seen from the 1960's and 1970's with text designations in place of shields has them just for US and state routes, and there is always a standard plan sheet which specifies US and state route shields for use on guide signs. Typically there is consistency only at the project level. If the contract calls for text designations, these will be used on advance guide and exit direction signs on the freeway mainline, as well as some conventional-road direction signs near the freeway. However, gore signs will use shields. If the contract calls for US and state route shields on advance guide and exit direction signs, these will be used throughout, with no text designations anywhere. For Interstate routes on signs, shields are always used--there are no text designations.
That's pretty much what I remember from traveling I-80 in the 70s. Once exception was at the Lake Harmony (Current Exit 277, Old Exit 42) which is the exit to access the Northeast Extension of the Pennsylvania Turnpike. See image below from AA Roads Shield Gallery:
(//www.aaroads.com/shields/img/PA/PA19709401i1.jpg)
This sign has since been replaced but it was the original sign from the construction of this section of I-80. You can see it has a button-copy PA 940 shield and a Penna Turn Pike Shield (I think it was button copy, too, but I don't remember for sure.) This sign even predates the designation of the Northeast Extension as PA 9 and IIRC the PA 9 sign was where the I-476 sign is in the image. As an aside, why they never stuck the PA 9 or I-476 on the main sign is beyond me as there was plenty of room and even unbalanced, it would look better than the 476 shield handing around the bottom.
Also, note that the border of the BGS is not complete and there is a pole sticking up in the middle. This was because the exit number was center-tabbed before the renumbering.
Here's one from Alabama:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs761.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx260%2Fjdbarnes1234%2F101_0816.jpg&hash=1720e34969a818baec8bdbfbd0439ddcfa196a50)
This is one of two that I know of. The other was I-20 @ US 431, which had US 78 shielded. I am not sure that one is still there.
Other than that, I mostly see text-based guide signs when a highway is used as a destination or marked on a freeway overpass here in Alabama
with extra-small lowercase letters, even!
Quote from: jdb1234 on December 14, 2009, 07:12:45 PM
This is one of two that I know of. The other was I-20 @ US 431, which had US 78 shielded. I am not sure that one is still there.
Other than that, I mostly see text-based guide signs when a highway is used as a destination or marked on a freeway overpass here in Alabama
The I-20 signs where us 431 is in text were replaced about a year ago
Quote from: barcncpt44 on December 14, 2009, 11:22:34 PM
Quote from: jdb1234 on December 14, 2009, 07:12:45 PM
This is one of two that I know of. The other was I-20 @ US 431, which had US 78 shielded. I am not sure that one is still there.
Other than that, I mostly see text-based guide signs when a highway is used as a destination or marked on a freeway overpass here in Alabama
The I-20 signs where us 431 is in text were replaced about a year ago
Oh. I have not been out that way in a long time, so I was not sure if they were still there.
Actually, I forgot one more. County Road 33 in Marion County appears in text at its interchange with Corridor X.
Northbound I-85 in Hillsborough has an all-text sign for the NC 751 connector/US 70 Business exit, Exit 170. It says "TO NC 751/Durham/Duke Univ"
QuoteThe current (2003) edition of the MUTCD still provides dimensions for text designations. ... However--and this is a big however--signs with text designations are no longer shown in the MUTCD. ... These differences (1) emphasize to agencies that exit numbering is now required on non-Interstates and (2) hint that at some future point FHWA will ban text designations.
J N, you're probably right that the MUTCD will ban text designations in future versions. However, it currently does NOT outright ban them. Section 2E.25 of the 2003 MUTCD states that "Route signs (see Figure 2E-11)
should [emphasis added] be incorporated as cut-out shields or other distinctive shapes on large directional guide signs." As the MUTCD uses "should" instead of "shall," they've effectively grandfathered in text designations of route numbers, at least for now.
Here's one from US 20 in New York near Cherry Valley.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.teresco.org%2Fpics%2Fsigns%2F20051119%2Fus20exit.jpg&hash=ebcd2077c7da36285fbd01863990607e949562d0)
Here's another one from NY. The gantry before this has the route numbers in shields.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.speedcam.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk%2Fny106.jpg&hash=1585b348f0912447465f3615906ac67b3cd25bd3)
I can only imagine that it's about cost. A few letters/numbers are probably cheaper than a shield, and you potentially get to reduce the sign size which also saves money.
New York did follow this practice profusely although the signs from it are now slowly but surely vanishing. 287 was covered in them until it was reconstructed about 10 years ago.
^^ I'm from New York, and I've never seen text-based signs anywhere in the state. I live in CNY, so the if text-based signs did exist in this area, they must have been replaced.
Back in the 1950's and 1960's, the New York State Thruway had all big blue signs, with black sign-backing. Even the "No U Turn" and "Keep Right" signs on exit ramps (rarely divided) were white letters on blue backgrounds.
Big blue signs were in text, always "Route xxx" never NY xxx or US xx. This was the era before the Interstate system was created and when Interstate highways were finished and completed, an interstate shield was placed on an appended post at the top of the sign, usually off-center to the exit tab.
Quote from: Truvelo on December 14, 2009, 11:32:01 AMI'm surprised no one's mentioned PA 60 near New Castle which is covered in them.
US 422 has them as well, but they are a dying breed. US 220 had all text guide signs near Lock Haven before it was rehabilitated this past year.
Pennsylvania used all text guide signs for interchanges with state and US routes (Interstates always used shields) for a time in the 60s and 70s, then they briefly began to use US and PA shields with a black outline as had existed on former 279 at Saw Mill Run Boulevard until 2000.
Quote from: Mr_Northside on December 14, 2009, 12:58:58 PMI imagine in the next few months most of those will be replaced as part of the I-376 renumbering. I would expect them to have shields. We'll see.
That would be a safe bet. For whatever reason, the signs north of the US 422 interchange are much newer than the ones around New Castle. The ones at the last interchange with PA 18 just north of 80 were just replaced around 2004 and use Clearview.
There used to be a nice text assembly on US 22 West at PA 309 in Allentown. It's been replaced with the dreaded Clearview BGS's now.
Quote from: PAHighways on December 15, 2009, 06:46:00 PM
US 422 has them as well, but they are a dying breed. US 220 had all text guide signs near Lock Haven before it was rehabilitated this past year.
Pennsylvania used all text guide signs for interchanges with state and US routes (Interstates always used shields) for a time in the 60s and 70s, then they briefly began to use US and PA shields with a black outline as had existed on former 279 at Saw Mill Run Boulevard until 2000.
If I'm not mistaken, there are some on US 15 south approaching US 220/I-180 at Williamsport.
Quote from: hbelkins on December 15, 2009, 08:00:47 PM
Quote from: PAHighways on December 15, 2009, 06:46:00 PM
US 422 has them as well, but they are a dying breed. US 220 had all text guide signs near Lock Haven before it was rehabilitated this past year.
Pennsylvania used all text guide signs for interchanges with state and US routes (Interstates always used shields) for a time in the 60s and 70s, then they briefly began to use US and PA shields with a black outline as had existed on former 279 at Saw Mill Run Boulevard until 2000.
If I'm not mistaken, there are some on US 15 south approaching US 220/I-180 at Williamsport.
There were a few still up on US-220 in that area in July. Give me a few and I'll get the pictures up.
EDIT: Nevermind. They are old signs, but they had shields in them. :banghead:
Text based is Hideous, also I can imagine it would be harder to distinguish between duplicate routes(i.e. An Interstate and a State Route having the same number) since there are no shields.
Text designations can be tricky on small signs, especially if business route suffixes are used. I invite you to translate the following:
BI 20G 3
MONAHANS 5
Quote from: J N Winkler on December 16, 2009, 12:03:14 AM
Text designations can be tricky on small signs, especially if business route suffixes are used. I invite you to translate the following:
BI 20G 3
MONAHANS 5
Business Interstate 20, segment G? Must be Texas.
Quote from: Riverside Frwy on December 15, 2009, 11:29:14 PM
Text based is Hideous, also I can imagine it would be harder to distinguish between duplicate routes(i.e. An Interstate and a State Route having the same number) since there are no shields.
Yes and no: sometimes it's easier when the designation is spelled out (i.e. "US xx" or "Interstate xx").
I know a few examples exist in California though I can't really think of any in metro Sacramento.
Quote from: TheStranger on December 16, 2009, 01:17:13 AM
Yes and no: sometimes it's easier when the designation is spelled out (i.e. "US xx" or "Interstate xx").
I tend to have an easier time parsing a US shield vs a state shield, as opposed to spelled out names. Well, except in the case of Wisconsin! :-D
Quote from: Michael on December 15, 2009, 04:32:31 PM
^^ I'm from New York, and I've never seen text-based signs anywhere in the state. I live in CNY, so the if text-based signs did exist in this area, they must have been replaced.
It is an older practice that NYSDOT had, and it is possible that not every NYSDOT region used text based signs often. I can't think of any examples in the wild in Region 3 (Syracuse, Auburn, Ithaca, Cortland, Oswego for those not in the know).
It seems like text on a mileage sign is fairly common, like Indiana does:
(https://www.aaroads.com/midwest/indiana080/i-080_090_wb_exit_144_10.jpg)
While other states use shields on their mileage signs, like Florida:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.southeastroads.com%2Fflorida004%2Fi-004_eb_exit_129_01.jpg&hash=7f658b6125ef2cd0eb90300f3eee0f62aea0ba1a)
Do any other states use shields on distance mileage signs? I've only really noticed it in Florida, but I can't say I paid that much attention elsewhere.
Quote from: realjd on December 16, 2009, 08:53:11 AM
Do any other states use shields on distance mileage signs? I've only really noticed it in Florida, but I can't say I paid that much attention elsewhere.
I know the Ohio Turnpike uses shields on many of its distance signs approaching Indiana, especially from Toledo westward, where I-69 is listed as the second destination. I think I remember seeing some signs in Indiana which used shields for distances, but there are still lots of text in the instances where the distance to a route is given. Michigan will still list a route as text in the rare instances it gives the distance to a trunkline.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 16, 2009, 12:04:39 AMBusiness Interstate 20, segment G? Must be Texas.
Got it in one--but I doubt the ordinary motorist would.
Quote from: realjd on December 16, 2009, 08:53:11 AMDo any other states use shields on distance mileage signs? I've only really noticed it in Florida, but I can't say I paid that much attention elsewhere.
Arizona and Nebraska both do it, while Kansas doesn't. I believe California does it too.
Quote from: Riverside Frwy on December 15, 2009, 11:29:14 PM
Text based is Hideous, also I can imagine it would be harder to distinguish between duplicate routes(i.e. An Interstate and a State Route having the same number) since there are no shields.
Not really. Distinguishing between routes is easier when they use something other than "Route" or "Highway" in front of the number. Illinois uses "Illinois XX" for state routes, "US XX" for US routes, and "Interstate XX" for interstates (yes, interstate is spelled out). Michigan is similar, US-XX for US routes, I-XX for interstates, and M-XX for state routes.
Quote from: J N Winkler on December 16, 2009, 10:18:43 AM
Got it in one--but I doubt the ordinary motorist would.
I don't think the ordinary motorist cares if he is on segment G of the business loop. I wonder why Texas bothered to note it in full-size letter on the green sign. On the shields it's a tiny little unobtrusive letter.
Wisconsin did it quite a bit in the past - using "HWY" for every number/letter even for Interstates. Lately any new signs going up have the shields.
Quote from: Master son on December 16, 2009, 02:48:43 PM
Wisconsin did it quite a bit in the past - using "HWY" for every number/letter even for Interstates. Lately any new signs going up have the shields.
I remember seeing quite a few of those in the Milwaukee area. The distance signs would say:
HWY X 1 mile
HWY 18 2 miles
HWY 94 3 miles
And no difference between routes (for the record, X would be a county highway, 18 a US highway, and 94 an interstate).
QuoteDo any other states use shields on distance mileage signs?
Minnesota does. I posted a drawn up example in another thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=575.msg39049#msg39049) a couple months ago...
Quote from: realjd on December 16, 2009, 08:53:11 AM
Do any other states use shields on distance mileage signs?
The Illinois Tollway has been using them. Many of theirs around Chicagoland also include the name of the expressway or tollway. IDOT has only one that I know of on I-80 westbound between US-45 and I-355.
I do not know if this is an Iowa DOT work, but it is in Iowa.
(//www.aaroads.com/shields/img/IA/IA19950801i1.jpg)
As far as on mileage signs is concerned, there isn't much to say about CT as these are a real rarity to begin with, and I don't think one in the state except for i-91 north coming into hartford has Mileage to a route number (it is an assembly of distances to left exits in hartford... these types of signs are usually not used at all in CT). The only exception being mileage to the I 84 west interchange (left exit) and that is depicted with a button copy I-84 shield. In MA I see both. On the Mass Pike there are Mileage signs that give the distance to "I-495" in text format. Yet all the signs around the Springfield area use shields on the distance signage.
Quote from: Brandon on December 16, 2009, 05:35:03 PM
Quote from: realjd on December 16, 2009, 08:53:11 AM
Do any other states use shields on distance mileage signs?
The Illinois Tollway has been using them. Many of theirs around Chicagoland also include the name of the expressway or tollway. IDOT has only one that I know of on I-80 westbound between US-45 and I-355.
hmmm - Haven't seen those - what IL does last I checked is used BGS's to indicated mileage (having the next three exits on the sign bridge - both tollway and IDOT.
I've seen both in Virginia, though typically shields are used.
Quote from: Master son on December 16, 2009, 06:39:00 PM
Quote from: Brandon on December 16, 2009, 05:35:03 PM
The Illinois Tollway has been using them. Many of theirs around Chicagoland also include the name of the expressway or tollway. IDOT has only one that I know of on I-80 westbound between US-45 and I-355.
hmmm - Haven't seen those - what IL does last I checked is used BGS's to indicated mileage (having the next three exits on the sign bridge - both tollway and IDOT.
They have a few. This is one (please forgive the Google image),
I-355 North of the Spring Creek Toll Plaza: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=41.585144,-88.004855&spn=0,359.995505&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=41.584843,-88.00467&panoid=6S9Ql_0KlrvOrjYqgKANpA&cbp=12,8.92,,0,5.38 The shields are for I-55, I-88, and I-290, respectively.
I've also seen a few on the Tri-State Tollway and the East-West Tollway. Those carry the name of the expressway or tollway as well as the shields.
From the reconstruction - they're changing what they do then.
Quote from: realjd on December 16, 2009, 08:53:11 AM
Do any other states use shields on distance mileage signs? I've only really noticed it in Florida, but I can't say I paid that much attention elsewhere.
California definitely does do that, the one example that comes to mind is I-280 southbound in Santa Clara County a few miles before the Route 85 interchange, in which "Jct 85" is on a distance sign, with shield.
Quote from: PAHighways on December 15, 2009, 06:46:00 PM
Quote from: Truvelo on December 14, 2009, 11:32:01 AMI'm surprised no one's mentioned PA 60 near New Castle which is covered in them.
US 422 has them as well, but they are a dying breed. US 220 had all text guide signs near Lock Haven before it was rehabilitated this past year.
Pennsylvania used all text guide signs for interchanges with state and US routes (Interstates always used shields) for a time in the 60s and 70s, then they briefly began to use US and PA shields with a black outline as had existed on former 279 at Saw Mill Run Boulevard until 2000.
And all of those signs on US 220 are now Clearview! Talk about a drastic change.
Saw two NEW text-based signs on 101 southbound in San Mateo tonight...both approaching Highway 92. "Junction 92" on two straight distance signs, no shield or anything.
those must be extremely new, as I did not notice them when I was there on the 3rd of this month.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 14, 2009, 12:51:46 AM
Does anyone know what the rationale is to avoid shields and use the text-based number representation? The idea shows up in the 1961 AASHO interstate signing guide, without explanation: on one page, a sign with a shield, and on the next one, a text-based sign. So I am guessing the various states picked up the habit, but ... why? Shields look so much better!
New Mexico used these before the mid-1970s. I think it was first-generation interstate signage and didn't survive the conversion to signs with exit tabs - I know of none today.
Ontario used to use them for the QEW on some signs before the '90s. Now they use the letters "Q.E.W." inside a standard Ontario BGS crown. They're still used for some decommissioned highways where they never renamed the road after decommissioning them and on some VMS guide signs with the abbreviation HWY.
Here's a current picture of a guide sign for former Highway 27:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg31.imageshack.us%2Fimg31%2F9383%2Fdscn5897.jpg&hash=cd5694c5bfda122f4faa2409aeb5146ddb0233a5)
Here's a picture of a old style QEW guide pull through sign which used "Queen Elizabeth Way" instead of QEW inside a BGS crown like the one for Highway 2 there.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg686.imageshack.us%2Fimg686%2F828%2Fqew66.jpg&hash=0050d1d97b9bdbd38645c4428e83390d88cc39b9)
(picture from vintagekingshighways.com)
Richmond, RI: RI-112 at RI-138: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=richmond,+ri&sll=32.881,-117.238&sspn=0.042239,0.090895&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Richmond,+Washington,+Rhode+Island&ll=41.49994,-71.659688&spn=0.004709,0.011362&z=17&layer=c&cbll=41.500022,-71.659664&panoid=hCLBCTmCjEPnQZmswAon9g&cbp=12,69.43,,0,-0.35
On WB 138, there's a brand new TO I-95 shield with "I-95" in the shield.
I'm surprised nobody mentioned the abomination that is the signage on I-29 for I-129 in Sioux City:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=sioux+city,+ia&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Sioux+City,+Woodbury,+Iowa&gl=us&ei=0ns_S4y8OM6UtgePzPmSCQ&ved=0CBEQ8gEwAA&ll=42.440688,-96.37516&spn=0.031544,0.109863&z=14&layer=c&cbll=42.441102,-96.37521&panoid=4QS4_fI9I6aU2oRw_emJKA&cbp=12,353.11,,0,-8.15
Shields and text on the same sign. Ridiculous.
Sykotyk
Near my Dad's house in Bloomsburg @ Exit 241 on I-80 intersecting US 11. (Button copy, too!)
US 11 Northbound
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm3.static.flickr.com%2F2702%2F4219870259_e4da5e5a70.jpg&hash=3b07c1d60a4e939418efa6c5fcd84d8ca495b4d9)
US 11 Southbound
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm5.static.flickr.com%2F4039%2F4230854216_fefb4960fd.jpg&hash=eedbf76455d0b82106330a6ff24e9e6e07e5186d)
I-80 WB Exit 241 Ramp
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm5.static.flickr.com%2F4014%2F4230097771_9139658707.jpg&hash=e2559b9b7e9fea775a2560946b08248cfa3841bd)
Center tabbed as well! If you look closely, you can see the where the old exit numbers 36S and 36N were removed.
Here's a newish looking one
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.speedcam.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk%2Fonalaska.jpg&hash=a2b70808543ba9557782515655278133eacd3cab)
Heh. And if you'll notice ^^ that Wisconsin has a nasty habit of referring to everything as "Hwy" regardless of class. 16, 35, and 157 are state routes, and 53 is a US route. Don't worry though, WisDOT does the same thing to interstates.
Arkansas has started using shields on the clearview mileage signs in lieu of the previous spelled-out text for both listing urban exits, and also long-distance interstate junctions. The following signs are on I-40 after the sign replacement.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh3.ggpht.com%2F_vV2-Fg-7T40%2FSzghVEDyEkI%2FAAAAAAAAAo0%2FLzhAYMi9teg%2Fs800%2FIMG_5996.JPG&hash=16f53720320b04f4b075b149d5980e9e481f763b)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh5.ggpht.com%2F_vV2-Fg-7T40%2FS0n7QzHgdQI%2FAAAAAAAABMA%2FYO2SL_TQ1EU%2Fs640%2FIMG_8900.JPG&hash=e134b347676cccea6601a5b9c068d55fc7f779a6)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh4.ggpht.com%2F_vV2-Fg-7T40%2FS0n7RmyIXoI%2FAAAAAAAABME%2FJ-H0kP3UmT4%2Fs640%2FIMG_8941.JPG&hash=a1a1c1c35444b90f27147995b1f3e1a3b8878417)
Although one of the accidentally-all-text Route 92 references on US 101 in San Mateo has been given retoreflective greenout as of late, the other is still up:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm5.static.flickr.com%2F4114%2F4917287284_c6d47d9602_z.jpg&hash=1bb4bae8bd5d73c11509622cfad17360fbb97caa)
In case no one has mentioned it yet, Massachusetts used to have all text on their paddle signs:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh6.ggpht.com%2F_ZkmN2RrOJxw%2FSd_BoTuxa6I%2FAAAAAAAAFFA%2FWTzoEwBESIc%2Fs640%2FIMG_3015.JPG&hash=3ca54e4de7e8b0df171a35be2b6eea7ab74212a8)
a tradition that goes back at least 80 years.
(//www.aaroads.com/shields/img/MA/MA19300011i3.jpg)
1930 photo. Note the classic Massachusetts font!
:wow: That paddle sign would look great in my bedroom!
NY 198 has a ton between NY 33 and Elmwood Ave: http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ny/ny_198/
As far as I can think, this is the only one I've come across down here.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi696.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv321%2FFLroadgeek%2F267.jpg&hash=796d644172ff49686ac20484f88a550cd0921f37)
Connecticut did this in the late 1950s for the CT Turnpike; see Michael Summa's photos at Steve Alpert's site: http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ct/i-95/s.html. Often the town name was above the "Conn ###" designation on the sign.
Florida also had these signs circa 1977 when I lived there, e.g. "FLA 704" signs on I-95.
Quote from: PennDOTFan on August 22, 2010, 11:13:40 PM
In case no one has mentioned it yet, Massachusetts used to have all text on their paddle signs:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh6.ggpht.com%2F_ZkmN2RrOJxw%2FSd_BoTuxa6I%2FAAAAAAAAFFA%2FWTzoEwBESIc%2Fs640%2FIMG_3015.JPG&hash=3ca54e4de7e8b0df171a35be2b6eea7ab74212a8)
Used to? They don't do that any more? That's too bad. It was sort of endearlingly quirky.
Quote from: Michael in Philly on August 23, 2010, 02:02:22 AM
Quote from: PennDOTFan on August 22, 2010, 11:13:40 PM
In case no one has mentioned it yet, Massachusetts used to have all text on their paddle signs.
Used to? They don't do that any more? That's too bad. It was sort of endearlingly quirky.
They still do, but it's more limited. Generally, plain white squares are used, but you definitely see new text signs popping up. It's more likely on signs without arrows, but there's no true pattern to it.
Quote from: AlpsROADS on August 23, 2010, 07:30:46 PM
Quote from: Michael in Philly on August 23, 2010, 02:02:22 AM
Quote from: PennDOTFan on August 22, 2010, 11:13:40 PM
In case no one has mentioned it yet, Massachusetts used to have all text on their paddle signs.
Used to? They don't do that any more? That's too bad. It was sort of endearlingly quirky.
They still do, but it's more limited. Generally, plain white squares are used, but you definitely see new text signs popping up. It's more likely on signs without arrows, but there's no true pattern to it.
They do? Every new paddle sign I've seen have shields on them.
Oregon uses them quite a bit on their distance signs.
(https://www.aaroads.com/west/oregon005/i-005_nb_exit_216_02.jpg)
Just found another California example through Flickr archives, on I-5:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/raymondyue/4311201070/
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm3.static.flickr.com%2F2797%2F4311201070_d7f7ac320b_z.jpg&hash=aa9b4dd42113b5bd9e65d48ed97d62f93dc23e6c)