MA rolled out new equipment for state inspections as of 10/1. Among the new requirements are photos of the license plates and the VIN, and the license plates must be evaluated for their condition, although it's not clear how the evaluation is done, by the machine or by the inspector.
I'm wondering how many of the green-and-white plates this will take off the road, since many of them are illegible.
Oh, that'll piss off some old-timers. I know how Massholes, excuse me, MA residents get about their green plates!
My mom's car has a green plate, and it would have expired at the end of September. I'm wondering if it would have passed the condition test had it been one month later.
There's plenty of red Spirit plates that are getting pretty ratty too. Faded backgrounds, numbers worn off...
If someone really wants to hang on to their greenies, there is a guy in-state who is doing restorations with the same reeflective paint as the original greenies. The downside is that you're without a plate for a week.
License plate visibility/reflection has been part of inspections for a while before this October. The visibility requirement's been something like 60 feet for years.
Quote from: kefkafloyd on October 07, 2017, 09:14:58 PM
If someone really wants to hang on to their greenies, there is a guy in-state who is doing restorations with the same reeflective paint as the original greenies. The downside is that you're without a plate for a week.
That sounds vaguely illegal to me.
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on October 07, 2017, 09:20:38 PM
That sounds vaguely illegal to me.
Details:
http://houseofjoyfulnoise.com/motor-vehicle-license-plate-refurbishing/
More specifically, on legality:
http://houseofjoyfulnoise.com/motor-vehicle-license-plate-refurbishing/#comment-15407
If you do a bad job with, say, non-reflective paint or nail polish, you'd run afoul of visibility rules. But by all accounts the restoration makes the plate identical to when it came out of Walpole 30-ish years ago because he strips the plate down to bare metal and repaints it using the same reflective paint that was used in the past. This is an actual professional restoration, not a slapdash paint job.
Unrelated to this, but IMO if the state wants to get rid of greenies, they should just bite the bullet and recall them. Holding them at ransom at inspection time is underhanded IMO.
Quote from: kefkafloyd on October 07, 2017, 09:14:58 PMLicense plate visibility/reflection has been part of inspections for a while before this October. The visibility requirement's been something like 60 feet for years.
Of course, with a wink-wink-nod-nod and just pressing a key on the old machine, meaning "I looked and it's OK." The required photos will, at least theoretically, put an end to that.
The MA inspection system was for a very long time a notoriously corrupt concept. Everyone knew an inspection station where a certain sum of money led to "yeah, I'll put a stickah on it for ya" without doing any work or keeping any records. Requiring inspection stations to use state-issued equipment which will not print a sticker until all requirements are satisfied is at least a step in the right direction.
Quote from: kefkafloyd on October 07, 2017, 09:31:09 PMIMO if the state wants to get rid of greenies, they should just bite the bullet and recall them. Holding them at ransom at inspection time is underhanded IMO.
Not underhanded at all. As you stated above, even some plates in the current series are beginning to degrade. They must endure rain, snow, ice, sand, salt, polluted air and detergents used in car washes. They cannot be realistically expected to look like new forever. That's the reason they are supposed to be inspected once a year.
Quote from: SidS1045 on October 07, 2017, 09:54:41 PM
Quote from: kefkafloyd on October 07, 2017, 09:31:09 PMIMO if the state wants to get rid of greenies, they should just bite the bullet and recall them. Holding them at ransom at inspection time is underhanded IMO.
Not underhanded at all. As you stated above, even some plates in the current series are beginning to degrade. They must endure rain, snow, ice, sand, salt, polluted air and detergents used in car washes. They cannot be realistically expected to look like new forever. That's the reason they are supposed to be inspected once a year.
I'm not saying plates shouldn't be inspected, but that (in the past) a subjective test that isn't usually observed shouldn't be the method used to take a group of plates out of circulation because it can be used capriciously with the same reasons you mentioned earlier. Now with photographic tests, it should be a bit more objective and less beholden to the whims of an inspector (and less likely to let bad plates get through).
People with Spirit plates can get new plates for $10/plate at the RMV with their same registration, so it's not a big deal if they want a replacement plate. Green plate users who get replacements are currently getting assigned a new plate number and people are a bit possessive of their plate numbers (or, less so, the fact that they only need a rear plate). I think a lot of people would be more willing to give up the greenie if they could keep their same reg. The state's going to need the 123-ABC series again eventually, might as well bite the bullet and re-issue them.
Quote from: kefkafloyd on October 07, 2017, 09:31:09 PM
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on October 07, 2017, 09:20:38 PM
That sounds vaguely illegal to me.
Details:
snip
I guess maybe it feels odd to me because in the states I've lived in, it's mandatory that you get new plates every so often–in Iowa, for example, every ten years. On the other hand, we don't have mandatory vehicle inspections, much less yearly ones.
The license plate issue is the least onerous thing involved here with this new inspection system. As usual with this state, conditions of vehicles is not the problem, it's the idiots driving them. The only bigger idiots are the ones making the rules.
Quote from: kefkafloyd on October 07, 2017, 09:31:09 PM
Unrelated to this, but IMO if the state wants to get rid of greenies, they should just bite the bullet and recall them. Holding them at ransom at inspection time is underhanded IMO.
If the RMV really wants to get rid of greenies, they should allow people to transfer their registration number to the newer Spirit plates. This is the number one (pardon the pun) reason I've heard as to why people will not give up those plates, even when the RMV was allowing transfer of old plates for free.
BTW, you were always at risk to fail the safety inspection if your plate was illegible, so that's not new. What is new here is the RMV extorting money from service station owners to install the new (and UNNECESSARY) equipment. And the rationale that this new system is necessary to combat widespread fraud (how can you even fake an OBD test?) is one of the more idiotic claims to come from the RMV in a long time.
Quote from: kefkafloyd on October 07, 2017, 10:11:39 PM
People with Spirit plates can get new plates for $10/plate at the RMV with their same registration, so it's not a big deal if they want a replacement plate. Green plate users who get replacements are currently getting assigned a new plate number and people are a bit possessive of their plate numbers (or, less so, the fact that they only need a rear plate). I think a lot of people would be more willing to give up the greenie if they could keep their same reg. The state's going to need the 123•ABC series again eventually, might as well bite the bullet and re-issue them.
RMV will only issue replacement Spirit plates with the same number if ONE of them has been damaged or destroyed (as in a crash). If you request replacement of both plates, RMV will issue you a new number. Also, the RMV will not replace damaged or destroyed green plates, but will require you to get a new registration number, which is randomly issued, on Spirit plates.
Quote from: SectorZ on October 07, 2017, 11:18:00 PM
The license plate issue is the least onerous thing involved here with this new inspection system. As usual with this state, conditions of vehicles is not the problem, it's the idiots driving them. The only bigger idiots are the ones making the rules.
In this case, the much bigger issue than the two you mentioned is the fact that (at last report) about a third of the new inspection computers aren't working correctly, or at all. It's obvious at this point that the new machines were not thoroughly tested before deployment.
I went to get my sticker yesterday, at the same place I've been going to for years. There were a few people ahead of me. In the middle of the inspection ahead of me, the machine's OBDII scanner stopped working and would not respond to a cold boot. Those of us waiting for stickers had to go elsewhere.
Owners of inspection stations where the equipment has broken down are now demanding reimbursement from the state. (The inspection fee is $35 and the inspection station's owner keeps $23.50 of the fee, so some of those stations are losing lots of money.)
Quote from: roadman on October 08, 2017, 01:18:07 AM
Quote from: kefkafloyd on October 07, 2017, 09:31:09 PM
Unrelated to this, but IMO if the state wants to get rid of greenies, they should just bite the bullet and recall them. Holding them at ransom at inspection time is underhanded IMO.
If the RMV really wants to get rid of greenies, they should allow people to transfer their registration number to the newer Spirit plates. This is the number one (pardon the pun) reason I've heard as to why people will not give up those plates, even when the RMV was allowing transfer of old plates for free.
BTW, you were always at risk to fail the safety inspection if your plate was illegible, so that's not new. What is new here is the RMV extorting money from service station owners to install the new (and UNNECESSARY) equipment. And the rationale that this new system is necessary to combat widespread fraud (how can you even fake an OBD test?) is one of the more idiotic claims to come from the RMV in a long time.
I was caught up in the chaos caused by the new regulations. I went to get an inspection the last week of September, but my car didn't pass. Finally had time to take it to a shop on Sept. 30 and got it repaired, but the shop did not do inspections and by the time it was fixed it was Sat PM and all the inspection stations were closed. Went to a place on Monday Oct. 2 but they couldn't inspect me because they were still installing the new software and they told me to come back later in the week. Checked out another place later in the week but the computer system went down. Went back to the original place on Saturday and after the technician worked on the system for about an hour got it up an running and got the car finally to pass an inspection. Needless to say, the owner of the place was not too thrilled with the new system.
Is Parsons running the new system? If so, I'm not surprised after the disaster they caused with NJ inspections 20 years ago.
Quote from: NJRoadfan on October 09, 2017, 10:17:12 AM
Is Parsons running the new system? If so, I'm not surprised after the disaster they caused with NJ inspections 20 years ago.
Although, that WAS 20 years ago...back when a certain Governor made a mess of a number of things (see also: EZ Pass, DMV Privatization).
Today's vehicles inspections in NJ are a breeze. In fact, I just took my wife's vehicle thru Saturday. Even though the registration was expiring this month, the inspector didn't mention it (I had the online renewal payment receipt with me just in case.) Some inspectors ask you to wait outside the vehicle; others such as mine told me to go to the passenger seat. He takes the car forward about 50 feet over a camera that looks at the underside of the vehicle...and I gotta be honest, it felt little strange for both of us to be sitting in a moving car during an inspection with neither of us wearing seatbelts. The only thing officially inspected is emissions, done via a plug-in to the electronic port beneath the steering wheel. Various inspectors may make little inspections of other items such as the horn, lights, etc. Anything like that not working though will not cause the vehicle to fail inspection - they'll just tell you to fix it.
The inspector made a little small-talk, mostly mocking the other inspector in his lane.
He scrapped off the old sticker, slapped the new inspection sticker (2 years) on the windshield, and I drive thru the rest of the garage and out.
Quote from: roadman on October 08, 2017, 01:18:07 AMthe rationale that this new system is necessary to combat widespread fraud (how can you even fake an OBD test?) is one of the more idiotic claims to come from the RMV in a long time.
While it's true that you can't fake an OBD test, much of the rest of the inspection was done (under the old system) by visually observing an element of the inspection (i.e., something like "are the brake lights working?" or "are the headlights properly aimed?") and required a Pass/Fail keystroke on the machine. Aside from the newly required photos of the license plates and VIN plate, I'm not so sure that those other inspection elements aren't still done visually, meaning that the inspector can still pass some element that really shouldn't pass.
Are they doing this to prevent people from using plates that cannot be read on toll roads or at red light/speed camera stations?
In Washington, D.C. and nearby, some people purchase semi-opaque plastic license plate covers, presumably to make it difficult for photo radar and red light cameras to read their tags. Probably also to prevent cameras on toll roads and toll lanes from reading the tags.
The plate covers are illegal, but that is seldom enforced.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on October 09, 2017, 12:11:05 PM
Are they doing this to prevent people from using plates that cannot be read on toll roads or at red light/speed camera stations?
No red light/speed cameras in Massachusetts.
Quote from: Alps on October 07, 2017, 01:33:59 PM
Oh, that'll piss off some old-timers. I know how Massholes, excuse me, MA residents get about their green plates!
The reason for that is due to those were the only ones that were just rear-plate issue. The previous designs and its successor designs were/are all front & rear issue.
Quote from: 1 on October 09, 2017, 12:33:49 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on October 09, 2017, 12:11:05 PM
Are they doing this to prevent people from using plates that cannot be read on toll roads or at red light/speed camera stations?
No red light/speed cameras in Massachusetts.
But all its tolled facilities are AET.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 09, 2017, 10:33:05 AM
Quote from: NJRoadfan on October 09, 2017, 10:17:12 AM
Is Parsons running the new system? If so, I'm not surprised after the disaster they caused with NJ inspections 20 years ago.
Although, that WAS 20 years ago...back when a certain Governor made a mess of a number of things (see also: EZ Pass, DMV Privatization).
Today's vehicles inspections in NJ are a breeze. In fact, I just took my wife's vehicle thru Saturday. Even though the registration was expiring this month, the inspector didn't mention it (I had the online renewal payment receipt with me just in case.) Some inspectors ask you to wait outside the vehicle; others such as mine told me to go to the passenger seat. He takes the car forward about 50 feet over a camera that looks at the underside of the vehicle...and I gotta be honest, it felt little strange for both of us to be sitting in a moving car during an inspection with neither of us wearing seatbelts. The only thing officially inspected is emissions, done via a plug-in to the electronic port beneath the steering wheel. Various inspectors may make little inspections of other items such as the horn, lights, etc. Anything like that not working though will not cause the vehicle to fail inspection - they'll just tell you to fix it.
The inspector made a little small-talk, mostly mocking the other inspector in his lane.
He scrapped off the old sticker, slapped the new inspection sticker (2 years) on the windshield, and I drive thru the rest of the garage and out.
Welcome to the new "cost savings" plans for inspections in NJ. Combine that with the fact that new cars have a 5 year grace on inspections and there's a lot fewer people rolling out for inspections anymore.
Quote from: SidS1045 on October 09, 2017, 11:24:26 AM
Quote from: roadman on October 08, 2017, 01:18:07 AMthe rationale that this new system is necessary to combat widespread fraud (how can you even fake an OBD test?) is one of the more idiotic claims to come from the RMV in a long time.
While it's true that you can't fake an OBD test, much of the rest of the inspection was done (under the old system) by visually observing an element of the inspection (i.e., something like "are the brake lights working?" or "are the headlights properly aimed?") and required a Pass/Fail keystroke on the machine. Aside from the newly required photos of the license plates and VIN plate, I'm not so sure that those other inspection elements aren't still done visually, meaning that the inspector can still pass some element that really shouldn't pass.
Question? Is the problem of "I'll let it pass even though I shouldn't" so severe, as the RMV claims with their statements of "rampant fraud", to justify the time, expense, and hassle of installing an entirely new system? Given that the RMV cited the exact same problem when they introduced the tailpipe test, and again when they substituted the OBD test for the tailpipe test, I seriously doubt it. This is just another boondoggle designed to give a campaign contributor a huge chunk of money that's disguised as a "necessary improvement intended to improve safety."
Quote from: roadman on October 09, 2017, 03:28:53 PM
Quote from: SidS1045 on October 09, 2017, 11:24:26 AM
Quote from: roadman on October 08, 2017, 01:18:07 AMthe rationale that this new system is necessary to combat widespread fraud (how can you even fake an OBD test?) is one of the more idiotic claims to come from the RMV in a long time.
While it's true that you can't fake an OBD test, much of the rest of the inspection was done (under the old system) by visually observing an element of the inspection (i.e., something like "are the brake lights working?" or "are the headlights properly aimed?") and required a Pass/Fail keystroke on the machine. Aside from the newly required photos of the license plates and VIN plate, I'm not so sure that those other inspection elements aren't still done visually, meaning that the inspector can still pass some element that really shouldn't pass.
Question? Is the problem of "I'll let it pass even though I shouldn't" so severe, as the RMV claims with their statements of "rampant fraud", to justify the time, expense, and hassle of installing an entirely new system? Given that the RMV cited the exact same problem when they introduced the tailpipe test, and again when they substituted the OBD test for the tailpipe test, I seriously doubt it. This is just another boondoggle designed to give a campaign contributor a huge chunk of money that's disguised as a "necessary improvement intended to improve safety."
It's still a problem even in states like PA. People have been caught with bogus stickers via taking a car in for a repair that had worn brakes..but a brand new sticker, the brakes were beyond the inspection minimums. So i could see up in MA people getting lick and sticks, particularly for stuff like window tint, loud exhausts, diesels that blow soot, etc.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on October 09, 2017, 12:11:05 PM
Are they doing this to prevent people from using plates that cannot be read on toll roads or at red light/speed camera stations?
In Washington, D.C. and nearby, some people purchase semi-opaque plastic license plate covers, presumably to make it difficult for photo radar and red light cameras to read their tags. Probably also to prevent cameras on toll roads and toll lanes from reading the tags.
The plate covers are illegal, but that is seldom enforced.
I see a number of these in Pennsylvania and Delaware as well, mainly for license plate readers and red light cameras (and maybe toll evasion)
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on October 07, 2017, 10:44:23 PM
Quote from: kefkafloyd on October 07, 2017, 09:31:09 PM
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on October 07, 2017, 09:20:38 PM
That sounds vaguely illegal to me.
Details:
snip
I guess maybe it feels odd to me because in the states I've lived in, it's mandatory that you get new plates every so often–in Iowa, for example, every ten years. On the other hand, we don't have mandatory vehicle inspections, much less yearly ones.
In my experience in rural Iowa, even 10 years can be quite a while for the front plate. Back one holds up well enough, but the front takes quite a sandblasting from bugs and even the occasional deer. And then scouring off the gunk and gore with the power washer doesn't help longevity either.
:-o
Quote from: MASTERNC on October 12, 2017, 09:52:26 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on October 09, 2017, 12:11:05 PM
Are they doing this to prevent people from using plates that cannot be read on toll roads or at red light/speed camera stations?
In Washington, D.C. and nearby, some people purchase semi-opaque plastic license plate covers, presumably to make it difficult for photo radar and red light cameras to read their tags. Probably also to prevent cameras on toll roads and toll lanes from reading the tags.
The plate covers are illegal, but that is seldom enforced.
I see a number of these in Pennsylvania and Delaware as well, mainly for license plate readers and red light cameras (and maybe toll evasion)
Worth noting:
1. The legality of plate covers can vary from state to state.
2. Plate covers have been sold in PA for at least two decades. Such were, at least initially, marketed as a tool against plate sticker theft/vandalism that was running rampant in southeastern PA (especially in/around Philly) at that time. Most of these
plate cuttings were done quick-and-dirty.
Quote from: storm2k on October 09, 2017, 01:16:10 PMWelcome to the new "cost savings" plans for inspections in NJ. Combine that with the fact that new cars have a 5 year grace on inspections and there's a lot fewer people rolling out for inspections anymore.
The best cost savings, of course, would be to eliminate the inspections altogether. :pan:
NJ would have liked to end inspections, but the Clean Air Act requires them.
Quote from: NJRoadfan on October 14, 2017, 02:03:59 PM
NJ would have liked to end inspections, but the Clean Air Act requires them.
Only in certani states, I'm assuming.
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 13, 2017, 08:52:50 AM
Quote from: MASTERNC on October 12, 2017, 09:52:26 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on October 09, 2017, 12:11:05 PM
Are they doing this to prevent people from using plates that cannot be read on toll roads or at red light/speed camera stations?
In Washington, D.C. and nearby, some people purchase semi-opaque plastic license plate covers, presumably to make it difficult for photo radar and red light cameras to read their tags. Probably also to prevent cameras on toll roads and toll lanes from reading the tags.
The plate covers are illegal, but that is seldom enforced.
I see a number of these in Pennsylvania and Delaware as well, mainly for license plate readers and red light cameras (and maybe toll evasion)
Worth noting:
1. The legality of plate covers can vary from state to state.
2. Plate covers have been sold in PA for at least two decades. Such were, at least initially, marketed as a tool against plate sticker theft/vandalism that was running rampant in southeastern PA (especially in/around Philly) at that time. Most of these plate cuttings were done quick-and-dirty.
Don't get me wrong. I have a clear cover because I have a specialty plate. However, the ones I see are smoke colored or clearly designed to obscure the plate.
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 09, 2017, 12:55:56 PM
Quote from: 1 on October 09, 2017, 12:33:49 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on October 09, 2017, 12:11:05 PM
Are they doing this to prevent people from using plates that cannot be read on toll roads or at red light/speed camera stations?
No red light/speed cameras in Massachusetts.
But all its tolled facilities are AET.
Ding ding ding! They've probably been having issues with plates not being read at the toll facilities.
And as far as the covers, they're illegal in New York and New Jersey regardless of color. Tinted ones are illegal in most states. Technically, those plate frames dealers put on are also illegal.
Quote from: cl94 on October 16, 2017, 09:47:51 PM
Technically, those plate frames dealers put on are also illegal.
Plate frames are illegal only if they obscure the state name or plate number. Some states will try to convince you that the frame cannot obscure the state motto as well, but the Supreme Court ruled in a New Hampshire case that people do not have to display the motto.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wooley_v._Maynard
Quote from: roadman on October 17, 2017, 09:49:36 AM
Quote from: cl94 on October 16, 2017, 09:47:51 PM
Technically, those plate frames dealers put on are also illegal.
Plate frames are illegal only if they obscure the state name or plate number. Some states will try to convince you that the frame cannot obscure the state motto as well, but the Supreme Court ruled in a New Hampshire case that people do not have to display the motto.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wooley_v._Maynard
State names are often partially blocked, at least with the frames I see around here. Per NY law, at least, the frame cannot obscure any portion of a letter in the state name, nor a class designation if it is listed on the plate. Granted, it's generally only ticketed if they want to get you for something.
I would love to view hidden camera footage of an inspector telling a die-hard Greenie holder that they have to surrender their plates. Watch the fireworks fly!
Quote from: Aerobird on October 15, 2017, 07:10:20 PM
Quote from: NJRoadfan on October 14, 2017, 02:03:59 PM
NJ would have liked to end inspections, but the Clean Air Act requires them.
Only in certani states, I'm assuming.
Certain states...and in some states, only certain counties.
NJ suffers also from pollutants directed easterly from the winds in PA and OH. It's been noted that even if NJ didn't put a single pollutant in the air, our clean air quality would fail from pollutants carried in from other states.
Quote from: cl94 on October 17, 2017, 11:34:45 AM
Quote from: roadman on October 17, 2017, 09:49:36 AM
Quote from: cl94 on October 16, 2017, 09:47:51 PM
Technically, those plate frames dealers put on are also illegal.
Plate frames are illegal only if they obscure the state name or plate number. Some states will try to convince you that the frame cannot obscure the state motto as well, but the Supreme Court ruled in a New Hampshire case that people do not have to display the motto.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wooley_v._Maynard
State names are often partially blocked, at least with the frames I see around here. Per NY law, at least, the frame cannot obscure any portion of a letter in the state name, nor a class designation if it is listed on the plate. Granted, it's generally only ticketed if they want to get you for something.
I wonder if that would change with more AET facilities coming up.
Sometimes the way plate looks is state-unique even if state name is hidden (NM, NJ, yellow NY and VT really stand out) , sometimes things are obvious from the format (CA), but some plates - especially special issue custom fancy ones - are impossible to attribute with state name obscured. Manual processing may help, but then that is an added cost for AET...
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 17, 2017, 12:06:20 PM
Quote from: Aerobird on October 15, 2017, 07:10:20 PM
Quote from: NJRoadfan on October 14, 2017, 02:03:59 PM
NJ would have liked to end inspections, but the Clean Air Act requires them.
Only in certani states, I'm assuming.
Certain states...and in some states, only certain counties.
NJ suffers also from pollutants directed easterly from the winds in PA and OH. It's been noted that even if NJ didn't put a single pollutant in the air, our clean air quality would fail from pollutants carried in from other states.
Yeah, a lot of the acid rain and pollution in all parts of NY comes from PA and OH. Not much will happen to make our air quality better until those states have more restrictions.
As far as certain counties in certain states, I think that, in IL, only the Chicago metro needs emissions inspections. NY emissions inspections are more in-depth in the NYC metro area, but an emissions inspection is a major part of the annual inspection statewide.
Quote from: roadman on October 08, 2017, 01:18:07 AM
If the RMV really wants to get rid of greenies, they should allow people to transfer their registration number to the newer Spirit plates. This is the number one (pardon the pun) reason I've heard as to why people will not give up those plates, even when the RMV was allowing transfer of old plates for free.
I just don't understand this mentality. It's a serial number, that's it. It's not like they have a vanity plate or anything. I couldn't care less what serial number is on my license plate, and I'd get a vanity plate if I did.
Quote from: kphoger on October 17, 2017, 04:31:24 PMI just don't understand this mentality. It's a serial number, that's it. It's not like they have a vanity plate or anything. I couldn't care less what serial number is on my license plate, and I'd get a vanity plate if I did.
No offense, but you don't understand it because you don't live here. License plates in MA are, to a substantial segment of the population, a prestige item. Lotteries are held periodically to distribute low-number plates, whose numbers do not change even when the Commonwealth decides to issue new plates. Low-number (also known as reserved) plates can be left in wills and some such plate numbers have been in the same family for over 50 years. Like other states, we have specialty plates, but the reserved plates are "worth" much more. I have a feeling the greenies are considered equivalent to reserved plates. (They use a letter/number scheme, NNNLLL, which was not duplicated in the current series.)
Quote from: SidS1045 on October 17, 2017, 09:41:22 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 17, 2017, 04:31:24 PMI just don't understand this mentality. It's a serial number, that's it. It's not like they have a vanity plate or anything. I couldn't care less what serial number is on my license plate, and I'd get a vanity plate if I did.
No offense, but you don't understand it because you don't live here. License plates in MA are, to a substantial segment of the population, a prestige item. Lotteries are held periodically to distribute low-number plates, whose numbers do not change even when the Commonwealth decides to issue new plates. Low-number (also known as reserved) plates can be left in wills and some such plate numbers have been in the same family for over 50 years. Like other states, we have specialty plates, but the reserved plates are "worth" much more. I have a feeling the greenies are considered equivalent to reserved plates. (They use a letter/number scheme, NNNLLL, which was not duplicated in the current series.)
I thought the 6-digit greenies were more prestigious than the NNNLLL ones.
Quote from: SidS1045 on October 17, 2017, 09:41:22 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 17, 2017, 04:31:24 PMI just don't understand this mentality. It's a serial number, that's it. It's not like they have a vanity plate or anything. I couldn't care less what serial number is on my license plate, and I'd get a vanity plate if I did.
No offense, but you don't understand it because you don't live here. License plates in MA are, to a substantial segment of the population, a prestige item. Lotteries are held periodically to distribute low-number plates, whose numbers do not change even when the Commonwealth decides to issue new plates. Low-number (also known as reserved) plates can be left in wills and some such plate numbers have been in the same family for over 50 years. Like other states, we have specialty plates, but the reserved plates are "worth" much more. I have a feeling the greenies are considered equivalent to reserved plates. (They use a letter/number scheme, NNNLLL, which was not duplicated in the current series.)
No offense taken, and thank you for the explanation.
Quote from: 1 on October 17, 2017, 09:59:54 PM
Quote from: SidS1045 on October 17, 2017, 09:41:22 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 17, 2017, 04:31:24 PMI just don't understand this mentality. It's a serial number, that's it. It's not like they have a vanity plate or anything. I couldn't care less what serial number is on my license plate, and I'd get a vanity plate if I did.
No offense, but you don't understand it because you don't live here. License plates in MA are, to a substantial segment of the population, a prestige item. Lotteries are held periodically to distribute low-number plates, whose numbers do not change even when the Commonwealth decides to issue new plates. Low-number (also known as reserved) plates can be left in wills and some such plate numbers have been in the same family for over 50 years. Like other states, we have specialty plates, but the reserved plates are "worth" much more. I have a feeling the greenies are considered equivalent to reserved plates. (They use a letter/number scheme, NNNLLL, which was not duplicated in the current series.)
I thought the 6-digit greenies were more prestigious than the NNNLLL ones.
I've stated similar before in this thread & I'll restate/rephrase it again. The reason for the increased sentimentality with the white/green plates IMHO, regardless of whether it contains a low or vanity number/phrases (such have long since been transferred onto the current design BTW), is the fact that these were the only design that (for standard issue) required
just one plate... the rear. No predecessor nor successor design called for just the rear plate; those designs always required front-and-rear plates. Until recently,
both plates (current design) required registration stickers. Today, only the rear plate requires a current registration sticker.
Had the white/green plates been a 2-plate issue; I don't think one would be seeing a sentimental-attachment to these plates.
BTW, my last MA registration was a white/green containing 6 numerals (334-406) issued circa 1985. It was retired in early 1991 when I changed my vehicle registration over to PA.
Quote from: 1 on October 17, 2017, 09:59:54 PM
I thought the 6-digit greenies were more prestigious than the NNNLLL ones.
Indeed they are, but they are still PAN (Passenger normal) plates, which is the same type as normal Spirit plates. For those not in the know, the RMV had two number series when they were first issued green plates until retirement: 123•456 and 100•AAA. A lot of people who has the six digit numerical greenies were actually transfers from six-digit numerical red plates in the 70s. When the Spirit PAN plates were first issued, they started with a remainder of 100•ZZZ to somewhere in the 100•WAA series. So there are red Spirit plates that have a similar looking serial format, but they will never overlap, as no greenies were ever issued from 100•WAA to 100•ZZZ.
They also did very few 123•456 plates with leading zeroes that were omitted on the plate, so you wound up with 001•234 being stamped on the plate as 1•234. That's not the same serial as PAR 1234 so you could see the confusion. The RMV actually recalled these plates and gave people with them new serials.
The Mass RMV doesn't reissue plate serials on the current Spirit PAN plates, even if someone returns old plates. When they run out of serials in a format in Sprit, they switch to a new format. When the plate type changes (e.g. going from the red 1970s plates to the green late 70s/early 80s plates) the numbers are recalled and reused. However, those who had six-digit numerical red plates had the option of keeping those serials when the transition to green plates were made.
Since moving to Spirit plates, the state's gone through several serial formats for PAN plates.
100•ZZZ
123•4AA
1234 AA (yes, there is a difference)
12A A34
123 AA4 (retired due to confusion with October last digits)
1AAA 23 (currently used only on October plates as far as I've seen)
1AA 234
Last year I saw a guy with 666•666 who I am sure is clinging to that plate. But at some point, the state's going to run out of not-confusing alphanumeric serial formats and they're going to want to re-use the 123•456 and 123•ABC series. But I think when that happens, they'll retire both the Spirit and Green formats and introduce a new plate design entirely. I think 123•456 format should be rolled into the PAR type so they can be reiussed when returned, but that's just my opinion.
While PAR and lotto PAR plates are treated specially, it's not like Massachusetts hasn't recalled or "forced" new plates on people in the past. They've also transferred numbers to new designs in the past, and they're even doing it today. The RMV just introduced the new 5X Champions Patriots plates, and you can keep your same serial on the updated plate design if you choose to update your plates.
QuoteI've stated similar before in this thread & I'll restate/rephrase it again. The reason for the increased sentimentality with the white/green plates IMHO, regardless of whether it contains a low or vanity number/phrases (such have long since been transferred onto the current design BTW), is the fact that these were the only design that (for standard issue) required just one plate... the rear. No predecessor nor successor design called for just the rear plate; those designs always required front-and-rear plates. Until recently, both plates (current design) required registration stickers. Today, only the rear plate requires a current registration sticker.
Unless an actual survey of people with greenies are taken, we just won't know. But I think there's a split between people who care about just a rear plate versus people who wouldn't mind spirit plates if they didn't have to worry about new serials or having the issue come up at inspection time (e.g. if they were just mailed new plates at the time of their reg expiring).
I also see more and more people with Spirit plates simply forgoing their front plate and taking their chances.
But I don't recall ever putting a sticker on a front spirit plate, and I've had those for twenty years. The RMV's only ever given me one plate sticker.
Quote from: kefkafloyd on October 18, 2017, 09:50:45 AMBut I don't recall ever putting a sticker on a front spirit plate, and I've had those for twenty years. The RMV's only ever given me one plate sticker.
The Spirit plates first rolled out in 1987 initially for commercial vehicles. The vanity plates received the new design a year later. IIRC, both of those plates had stickers placed on them. Back then, the stickers contained the month and year (MM 'YY design). I will have to ask my older brother (he still lives In MA) about when the RMV stopped issuing dual stickers for dual plates. Such may have coincided with later-issued Sprit plates having the month listed on the upper-left corner (earlier-issued designs did not include such). The stickers changed over to just listing the year ('YY) shortly thereafter.
My family's experience with Spirit plates has been very limited. Prior to his moving to Ohio in the early 90s; my father's plates were still the white/green design. My mother's latest (& final) registration dated back to the early 90s and was also of the white/green design; probably the final year for such. Prior to her accident last year; the plate was still in decent shape & probably would've passed the current inspection standards.
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 18, 2017, 10:03:17 AM
Quote from: kefkafloyd on October 18, 2017, 09:50:45 AMBut I don't recall ever putting a sticker on a front spirit plate, and I've had those for twenty years. The RMV's only ever given me one plate sticker.
The Spirit plates first rolled out in 1987 initially for commercial vehicles. The vanity plates received the new design a year later. IIRC, both of those plates had stickers placed on them. Back then, the stickers contained the month and year (MM 'YY design). I will have to ask my older brother (he still lives In MA) about when the RMV stopped issuing dual stickers for dual plates. Such may have coincided with later-issued Sprit plates having the month listed on the upper-left corner (earlier-issued designs did not include such). The stickers changed over to just listing the year ('YY) shortly thereafter.
My family's experience with Spirit plates has been very limited. Prior to his moving to Ohio in the early 90s; my father's plates were still the white/green design. My mother's latest (& final) registration dated back to the early 90s and was also of the white/green design; probably the final year for such. Prior to her accident last year; the plate was still in decent shape & probably would've passed the current inspection standards.
The RMV stopped issuing dual stickers for dual Spirit plates when they began issuing Spirit plates for passenger vehicles. They also simplified the design of the sticker at that time, removing the month notation. Note that most Spirit plates do not have the month on them (JAN, FEB, etc.). Rather, special plates are to be renewed by a certain month (my Spirit ham radio plates need to renewed by the end of November), and the renewal month for other plates is supposed to be based on the registration number (as an example, my original 'greenie' plate I got in September of 1987 was 349-MSD. The '9' indicated the renewal date of September.
As a side note, I must say I am very impressed with the RMV's on-line registration renewal process. Got the notice in the mail the first week of October. Renewed on-line a couple of days later, and had my new registration and sticker two days later.
I first moved to Massachusetts in summer 1997 and my first Mass plates were Spirit plates issued in early 1998 with the 1234 AB format. The plate faded badly and was rejected at inspection around 2012. I switched to PAS Red Sox plates at that time.
Quote from: roadman on October 18, 2017, 10:18:44 AM
The RMV stopped issuing dual stickers for dual Spirit plates when they began issuing Spirit plates for passenger vehicles. They also simplified the design of the sticker at that time, removing the month notation. Note that most Spirit plates do not have the month on them (JAN, FEB, etc.). Rather, special plates are to be renewed by a certain month (my Spirit ham radio plates need to renewed by the end of November), and the renewal month for other plates is supposed to be based on the registration number (as an example, my original 'greenie' plate I got in September of 1987 was 349-MSD. The '9' indicated the renewal date of September.
I see, and that general issue of Spirit plates for passenger use was around 1993-1994, if I remember correctly. So that would line up with dual stickers going away around then.
From what I've seen most Spirit plates do have months on them, at least for normal PAN, PAR, and at some point commercial plates got the month stamped/printed too, even though all commercial plates renew in December. Some plate types like Hams, vanity, antiques, trailers (usually the ones that renew in November) don't have months, but I'd wager those are the minority. I'm not sure why they don't stamp or print NOV on those plates. I'm at least OK with it since it makes my vanity plates look cleaner.
Quote from: Jardine on October 12, 2017, 10:43:47 PM
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on October 07, 2017, 10:44:23 PM
Quote from: kefkafloyd on October 07, 2017, 09:31:09 PM
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on October 07, 2017, 09:20:38 PM
That sounds vaguely illegal to me.
Details:
snip
I guess maybe it feels odd to me because in the states I've lived in, it's mandatory that you get new plates every so often–in Iowa, for example, every ten years. On the other hand, we don't have mandatory vehicle inspections, much less yearly ones.
In my experience in rural Iowa, even 10 years can be quite a while for the front plate. Back one holds up well enough, but the front takes quite a sandblasting from bugs and even the occasional deer. And then scouring off the gunk and gore with the power washer doesn't help longevity either.
:-o
Of course, next door in Illinois, our last plate switch was in 2000-2001. It's been 16-17 years since the last one (new, ugly plates have just come out this year). Then, you have the plates from 2000 through 2002 that are still under a free replacement program due to a recall (that most don't seem to have taken advantage of, or care much about). The plates would bubble and rust after a few years. Thus, you have a lot of cars with Illinois plates, and you can't read the number worth a damn due to the bubbling and rusting.
Quote from: Brandon on October 18, 2017, 11:42:28 AM
in Illinois ... you can't read the number worth a damn due to the bubbling and rusting.
You can't easily read the first digit of the new plates either, because Lincoln.
How timely, I saw a MA greenie plate on the road here in NJ this evening. It was readable, in better shape then some much newer plates. Here in NJ, any plate issued from 1959 to the present is still valid as long as the person kept renewing their registration. There are still some 40+ year old plates on the road here and they are still readable. NJ didn't switch over to reflective plates until the current circa 1992 base.
Quote from: kefkafloyd on October 18, 2017, 11:33:37 AM
Quote from: roadman on October 18, 2017, 10:18:44 AM
The RMV stopped issuing dual stickers for dual Spirit plates when they began issuing Spirit plates for passenger vehicles. They also simplified the design of the sticker at that time, removing the month notation. Note that most Spirit plates do not have the month on them (JAN, FEB, etc.). Rather, special plates are to be renewed by a certain month (my Spirit ham radio plates need to renewed by the end of November), and the renewal month for other plates is supposed to be based on the registration number (as an example, my original 'greenie' plate I got in September of 1987 was 349-MSD. The '9' indicated the renewal date of September.
I see, and that general issue of Spirit plates for passenger use was around 1993-1994, if I remember correctly. So that would line up with dual stickers going away around then.
From what I've seen most Spirit plates do have months on them, at least for normal PAN, PAR, and at some point commercial plates got the month stamped/printed too, even though all commercial plates renew in December. Some plate types like Hams, vanity, antiques, trailers (usually the ones that renew in November) don't have months, but I'd wager those are the minority. I'm not sure why they don't stamp or print NOV on those plates. I'm at least OK with it since it makes my vanity plates look cleaner.
You are correct about the month appearing on general issue PAN Spirit plates. It's in the upper left hand corner, funny how I never paid attention to that before. However, the last digit in the numeral still corresponds to the month the plate was issued - for example, 3479 CV would be issued in September, and have the SEP notation in the upper left corner next to 'Massachusetts'.
Saw a real rarity a few days ago: a reserved-number plate in a color scheme last used in 1983. When MA went to the green-on-white scheme, they didn't get a chance to replace all the reserved-number plates and owners were permitted to keep using them and renewing them. The plate I saw had a current sticker on it.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.plateshack.com%2Fmassachusetts%2Fma83r.jpg&hash=fc27e31e8bda6f3aad866cbf230de3ec27a41a51)
NOTE: This is not the plate I saw. Reserved numbers are five digits or less.
Quote from: SidS1045 on July 26, 2018, 01:56:01 PM
Saw a real rarity a few days ago: a reserved-number plate in a color scheme last used in 1983. When MA went to the green-on-white scheme, they didn't get a chance to replace all the reserved-number plates and owners were permitted to keep using them and renewing them. The plate I saw had a current sticker on it.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.plateshack.com%2Fmassachusetts%2Fma83r.jpg&hash=fc27e31e8bda6f3aad866cbf230de3ec27a41a51)
NOTE: This is not the plate I saw. Reserved numbers are five digits or less.
I've got one of those red ones in my garage that was on my father's car an eternity ago.
My parent's 1971 Catalina station wagon had plates of that style. 5K 7059. That was the era when you were given two registration stickers, one for each plate. Now, they only give you a sticker for the rear plate - the stated reason being to prevent people from taking the front plate and using it on another car.
Quote from: SidS1045 on July 26, 2018, 01:56:01 PM
Saw a real rarity a few days ago: a reserved-number plate in a color scheme last used in 1983. When MA went to the green-on-white scheme, they didn't get a chance to replace all the reserved-number plates and owners were permitted to keep using them and renewing them. The plate I saw had a current sticker on it.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.plateshack.com%2Fmassachusetts%2Fma83r.jpg&hash=fc27e31e8bda6f3aad866cbf230de3ec27a41a51)
Actually when the green-on-white design first rolled out circa 1977, the RMV still had a surplus of the old-red-on-white plates on hand; only new registrations received the new design whereas existing registrations got
new red-on-white plates. As a result, the replacement plate (D95-306) for my mother's '71 LTD was the same red-on-white/front/back design as its predecessor (E25-984) while my father's new company vehicle (a '77 Monte Carlo) got the then-new green-on-white rear plate (404-AHN).
Quote from: NJRoadfan on October 18, 2017, 10:36:03 PM
How timely, I saw a MA greenie plate on the road here in NJ this evening. It was readable, in better shape then some much newer plates. Here in NJ, any plate issued from 1959 to the present is still valid as long as the person kept renewing their registration. There are still some 40+ year old plates on the road here and they are still readable. NJ didn't switch over to reflective plates until the current circa 1992 base.
And the splattered egg plates are not holding up at all. Most of the ones that are older than 10 years still out there are nearly impossible to read. Occasionally you'll see one of the early models (LL-NNNL) still out there, and a lot of them are worn down to metal. They're disappearing quickly it seems, though, as the state tries to move everyone to the digital plates.
Most of the NJ plates that have delineated sheeting were from the brief period NJ used Avery sheeting. The 3M stuff has held up much better. The blue plates and the old buff plates will likely last forever though since they don't have reflective sheeting at all. Keep in mind that the LL-NNNL plates are all 20+ years old now! It still remains to be seen how long those flimsy digital plates will last. They seem to get all bent to crap very quickly.
Quote from: NJRoadfan on August 04, 2018, 01:27:16 PM
Most of the NJ plates that have delineated sheeting were from the brief period NJ used Avery sheeting. The 3M stuff has held up much better. The blue plates and the old buff plates will likely last forever though since they don't have reflective sheeting at all. Keep in mind that the LL-NNNL plates are all 20+ years old now! It still remains to be seen how long those flimsy digital plates will last. They seem to get all bent to crap very quickly.
I had a first batch digital plate, it lasted quite nicely but when i switched cars i asked quite nicely at the MVC "hey...do you have any of the GS series plates, with the agriculture stuff on it that are embossed" and out from the back comes a 2014 production plate, in 2018. It's holding up a bit better to car washes, just need to get a better front plate bracket.