What can you think of?
Golden State Boulevard from Fresno south to Kingsburg comes to mind. Really there hasn't been much traffic since US 99 shifted to a freeway alignment in the 1960s. Cajon Boulevard which carried Route 66 actually dropped to two lanes from a four-lane configuration long ago.
2100 North in Salt Lake City, north of the SLC airport. It’s the access road to the control tower and a few other buildings for the airport. There is very little traffic, and it definitely does not need to be 4 lanes with a center turn lane. It fits the phrase “highway to nowhere” quite well. In fact, it actually narrows down to 2 lanes before it reaches I-215 as one travels east.
As a general rule, anything with less than 15K ADT in an urban area or less than the 8-10K range in a rural area.
I-180 IL :sombrero:
The Summit Street extension north of Michigan's I-75 Exit 2. This was a lot busier once upon a time, but hasn't been since I-75 was finished a long time ago. The traffic on this could be handled easily with just two lanes.
https://goo.gl/maps/mXzHsX2VMZ62
http://www.michiganhighways.org/listings/MichHwysBus2-31.html#US-24CONN-E
The one that most readily comes to my mind is a segment of Kingstowne Village Parkway here in Fairfax County (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/38.7515343,-77.1661332/38.7564108,-77.1458292/@38.7547386,-77.1491204,18.08z) that was in fact narrowed from four lanes to two lanes a couple of years ago. The only people who think it's a problem are the ones who used to bomb through at 55 mph (sometimes more) despite the 35-mph speed limit in a residential area.
US 27 between Moore Haven and Lake Placid, Florida.
US 441/98 between Belle Glade and Wellington, Florida.
Put in a few passing lanes, and call it a day. It's nice to pass the trucks, but the wide paths are just make you easier bait for law enforcement.
Quote from: formulanone on October 23, 2017, 10:52:36 AM
US 27 between Moore Haven and Lake Placid, Florida.
US 441/98 between Belle Glade and Wellington, Florida.
Put in a few passing lanes, and call it a day. It's nice to pass the trucks, but the wide paths are just make you easier bait for law enforcement.
I'd say more like US 27 all the way south to I-75 at least if not the Turnpike. US 27 was my route of choice through the center over the state over junk like the Turnpike and I-75 since it was way overbuilt. FHP generally sticks to the Turnpike more than anything else.
Speaking of US 27, once it was decomissioned and replaced by US 127 north of Lansing the traffic count on the four lane expressway dropped to almost nothing.
The Mountain Parkway east of Exit 43. (Well, most of it is a two-lane road now with passing lanes on the hills, but it's being widened to four lanes in what I think is a totally unnecessary expenditure.)
-Robert Moses State Parkway. Half of it has already been downsized.
-Lake Ontario State Parkway. Carries very little traffic outside the summer months.
-CT 11. It really should be decommissioned if they're not going to extend it to New London.
-Taconic State Parkway north of NY 199. I'll probably get a lot of flack for this one, but it makes no sense maintaining a 110 mile-long substandard (and rather dangerous) highway at four lanes the whole length.
^ From a volume perspective, you're not wrong with the Taconic, though an argument could also be made to keep it 4 lanes up to NY 82.
Quote from: catch22 on October 23, 2017, 09:43:13 AM
The Summit Street extension north of Michigan's I-75 Exit 2. This was a lot busier once upon a time, but hasn't been since I-75 was finished a long time ago. The traffic on this could be handled easily with just two lanes.
https://goo.gl/maps/mXzHsX2VMZ62
http://www.michiganhighways.org/listings/MichHwysBus2-31.html#US-24CONN-E
I always wondered why that exit was so massive. It does at least connect I-75 to M-125 though.
Most US routes that were 4-laned before the interstate system and then bypassed by an interstate. Three that come to mind for me are US 1 and 301 south of Petersburg, and US 60 between I-295 and VA 30.
Missed your earlier question. And the first reason is that vehicles tend to bunch up closer at slower speeds. A certain level of delay is also more acceptable in urban areas than in rural areas. I would also disagree with your notion of there being "no rush hour" in rural areas. I live in a rural area in a predominantly rural state and we definitely have distinct morning and afternoon rush hour flows.
Quote from: Takumi on October 24, 2017, 06:59:59 PM
Most US routes that were 4-laned before the interstate system and then bypassed by an interstate. Three that come to mind for me are US 1 and 301 south of Petersburg, and US 60 between I-295 and VA 30.
I've always felt that US 301 being 4-lane divided from Emporia to Jarratt was a bit overkill, but it does make for a nice alternative to I-95 since there tend to be fewer trucks on that stretch.
On a similar vein, US 60 is a very pleasant and less stressful alternative to I-64 between Bottoms Bridge and Toano. It also still has enough traffic to warrant 4 lanes west of VA 106.
I know I've mentioned in other threads that there is a weird 1.3-mile four-lane segment of US-50 just west of Middleburg that doesn't make much sense. At one point VDOT planned to reduce it to two lanes using what is now the westbound carriageway; the current eastbound lanes would be severed but would remain in place as sort of a two-lane frontage road to allow property access. I don't know what ever became of that plan. The segment would certainly be adequate as a two-lane road, although it can be a rather useful place to pass slower drivers, especially westbound (eastbound you just wind up in the 25-mph zone in Middleburg anyway).
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/38.9694676,-77.7752153/38.967322,-77.7519671/@38.971538,-77.7570478,15.67z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 25, 2017, 10:56:09 AM
I know I've mentioned in other threads that there is a weird 1.3-mile four-lane segment of US-50 just west of Middleburg that doesn't make much sense. At one point VDOT planned to reduce it to two lanes using what is now the westbound carriageway; the current eastbound lanes would be severed but would remain in place as sort of a two-lane frontage road to allow property access. I don't know what ever became of that plan. The segment would certainly be adequate as a two-lane road, although it can be a rather useful place to pass slower drivers, especially westbound (eastbound you just wind up in the 25-mph zone in Middleburg anyway).
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/38.9694676,-77.7752153/38.967322,-77.7519671/@38.971538,-77.7570478,15.67z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0
That's weird. It's almost like it was meant to tie into a bypass or something. Either the whole piece between Middleburg and US 17 should be 4 lanes or not at all.
It's vintage suggests that it was built back when the plan was to 4-lane all of 50, which IIRC would have included bypasses of Middleburg and Aldie, and I believe Upperville as well.
Quote from: froggie on October 25, 2017, 12:16:16 PM
It's vintage suggests that it was built back when the plan was to 4-lane all of 50, which IIRC would have included bypasses of Middleburg and Aldie, and I believe Upperville as well.
I know in the mid-1990s VDOT had proposed to make it four lanes with the bypasses you mention, as it was around 1995 when a citizens' coalition sprang up in that area to fight the proposal (their website is still online at http://www.route50.org, although it appears it has not been updated in years). I'm pretty sure the four-lane segment was there prior to that time period, as I believe I recall it being that way when I was a kid (with a big text-style "KEEP RIGHT" sign as you approached from the west instead of the more conventional symbol you see there today). There are some documents online relating to the citizens' groups' responses to VDOT's proposal, but they don't say anything about the origin of that weird little segment.
^ I was thinking moreso of the 1960s timeframe. What we have for US 50 on VHP (http://www.vahighways.com/route-log/us050.htm) is that the Middleburg bit was 4-laned in the early 1960s.
Quote from: froggie on October 25, 2017, 08:56:17 PM
^ I was thinking moreso of the 1960s timeframe. What we have for US 50 on VHP (http://www.vahighways.com/route-log/us050.htm) is that the Middleburg bit was 4-laned in the early 1960s.
That sounds like it's probably right because the "KEEP RIGHT" sign I remember was of a style similar to the ones that used to be at the old eastern end of I-66 where traffic was forced left onto the Inner Loop, and those signs were there by the late 1960s because they were shown in that congressional report about road signs that's been linked here a few times.
Quote from: webny99 on October 25, 2017, 09:59:02 PM
Quote from: froggie on October 25, 2017, 09:30:23 AM
I would also disagree with your notion of there being "no rush hour" in rural areas. I live in a rural area in a predominantly rural state and we definitely have distinct morning and afternoon rush hour flows.
Poor word choice on my part. While I don't think true rural areas (think I-29 in North Dakota) have noteworthy rush hours, small towns, villages, and developed countryside areas definitely have distinct peaks. But those peaks aren't nearly as dramatic as those in urban areas, especially those near large business parks. So I'm thinking additional lanes are needed more often, but less urgently, in rural areas.
In any case, there are very few four-lane non-freeways in rural areas.
There are several four-lane non-freeways in rural areas where traffic is too much for a 2-lane but too little for a freeway. Think US 550 in NM, or US 93 in AZ.
I-25 between Cheyenne and Casper
Quote from: corco on October 25, 2017, 11:06:42 PM
I-25 between Cheyenne and Casper
I-70 from Green River (US 6 and 191) west to US 89.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 25, 2017, 11:24:22 PM
Quote from: corco on October 25, 2017, 11:06:42 PM
I-25 between Cheyenne and Casper
I-70 from Green River (US 6 and 191) west to US 89.
I-40 from Barstow to OKC, and every other western Interstate...ever.
Quote from: Henry on October 26, 2017, 10:39:11 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 25, 2017, 11:24:22 PM
Quote from: corco on October 25, 2017, 11:06:42 PM
I-25 between Cheyenne and Casper
I-70 from Green River (US 6 and 191) west to US 89.
I-40 from Barstow to OKC, and every other western Interstate...ever.
Thing was with 70 in the San Rafael Swell was that it was actually two lanes for a time and functioned pretty much as intended. The road was brand new in an uninhabited area and it was largely built one travel direction at a time. 40 gets way more truck traffic and can actually be kind of difficult in Arizona climbing up the Colorado plateau. Mind you I'd say I-10 gets the most traffic out of all those Interstates crossing the American west, or at least it feels like it.
Quote from: Henry on October 26, 2017, 10:39:11 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 25, 2017, 11:24:22 PM
Quote from: corco on October 25, 2017, 11:06:42 PM
I-25 between Cheyenne and Casper
I-70 from Green River (US 6 and 191) west to US 89.
I-40 from Barstow to OKC, and every other western Interstate...ever.
Actually, no. Per 2012 AADT volumes, I-40 has enough consistent traffic to generally warrant 4 lanes. You would be correct with the other western Interstates at some point or another, but that's not the case with I-40.
Quote from: webny99 on October 25, 2017, 09:59:02 PM
In any case, there are very few four-lane non-freeways in rural areas.
What? Just about every four-lane route in Kentucky qualifies as serving a rural area. I offer the KY 80 corridor from Mayfield to Bowling Green, US 25E between Middlesboro and Corbin, and US 23 from border to border, as examples. Yes, they serve some decent-sized (for Kentucky, anyway) towns and cities, but the majority of these routes run through rural territory. Plus most of West Virginia's APD corridors. You can't get much more rural than US 50 between Parkersburg and Clarksburg.
Quote from: webny99In any case, there are very few four-lane non-freeways in rural areas.
In the Northeast (namely New York and New England), yes this is the case. But given the nation as a whole, that is the exception rather than the rule. Much of the nation, including the Southeast, Mid-Atlantic, Plains, the Midwest, and California, has non-freeway 4-lane roadways in rural areas. HB gave examples from Kentucky, but they are far from being the only state with such.
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on October 25, 2017, 09:54:43 AM
Quote from: Takumi on October 24, 2017, 06:59:59 PM
Most US routes that were 4-laned before the interstate system and then bypassed by an interstate. Three that come to mind for me are US 1 and 301 south of Petersburg, and US 60 between I-295 and VA 30.
I've always felt that US 301 being 4-lane divided from Emporia to Jarratt was a bit overkill, but it does make for a nice alternative to I-95 since there tend to be fewer trucks on that stretch.
Well, yeah, now, but when it was done it was likely busier. The abandoned businesses along the stretch probably did fairly well back in the day, and the now-sketchy motels around the Sussex-Greensville line were probably more inviting. I’d say US 1 between South Hill and McKenney is more overkill nowadays.
Quote from: Takumi on October 26, 2017, 04:48:21 PM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on October 25, 2017, 09:54:43 AM
Quote from: Takumi on October 24, 2017, 06:59:59 PM
Most US routes that were 4-laned before the interstate system and then bypassed by an interstate. Three that come to mind for me are US 1 and 301 south of Petersburg, and US 60 between I-295 and VA 30.
I've always felt that US 301 being 4-lane divided from Emporia to Jarratt was a bit overkill, but it does make for a nice alternative to I-95 since there tend to be fewer trucks on that stretch.
Well, yeah, now, but when it was done it was likely busier. The abandoned businesses along the stretch probably did fairly well back in the day, and the now-sketchy motels around the Sussex-Greensville line were probably more inviting. I'd say US 1 between South Hill and McKenney is more overkill nowadays.
The 28 miles of US-301 between just north of Emporia and VA-35, was dualized to 4 lanes in the late 1950s. Excepting that section the rest of I-95 in Virginia was completed by 1965, and I-95 seamlessly connected with that 28 mile 4-lane segment of US-301. About 19,000 AADT was using that segment of US-301 when the last 28 miles of I-95 was built 1977-1982, it definitely needed 4 lanes.
The 18 miles of US-301 between Jarratt and VA-35 was rebuilt to Interstate standards, and the NB US-301 roadway was rebuilt into the SB I-95 roadway. The SB US-301 roadway was relegated back to its original two-way roadway. A 1.5 mile US-301 section at Carson was bypassed and remains with 4 lanes.
The 10 miles of US-301 between Jarratt and just north of Emporia was bypassed by I-95 and remains with 4 lanes. It only carries about 4,000 AADT and IMO could be relegated back to 2 lanes, the older roadway would be demolished and obscured. There have been two bridge replacements on the older roadway (1999 and 2017) and the removal of both bridges over the abandoned NF&D Railroad crossing just north of Jarratt, those could have been obviated by the removal of that roadway. I am not sure why that was not proposed, but probably FHWA would not have funded it when I-95 was built. It would be expensive, probably $5 million or more in today's dollars. Maybe one or both county governments opposed it and want it to remain at 4 lanes.
Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2017, 09:14:10 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 26, 2017, 10:53:15 AM
Quote from: webny99 on October 25, 2017, 09:59:02 PM
In any case, there are very few four-lane non-freeways in rural areas.
What? Just about every four-lane route in Kentucky qualifies as serving a rural area. I offer the KY 80 corridor from Mayfield to Bowling Green, US 25E between Middlesboro and Corbin, and US 23 from border to border, as examples. Yes, they serve some decent-sized (for Kentucky, anyway) towns and cities, but the majority of these routes run through rural territory. Plus most of West Virginia's APD corridors. You can't get much more rural than US 50 between Parkersburg and Clarksburg.
A little browsing on GMSV reveals that most of those are, indeed, four-lane non-freeways. US-52 and US-169 in Minnesota come to mind as examples, too. But they're also divided, which, as I believe I said above, means they can't really be compared to a two-lane road.
Why does it matter if they're divided? It's still a four lane facility that has at grade intersections and traffic lights. Too much traffic for a 2-lane, but too little for full grade separation.
If you're truly in the middle of nowhere, and the four lane highway isn't divided, it probably was a poor decision by the DOT. I offer US 550 in NM as an example. It was one of the most dangerous 2 lane highways, so they decided to four lane it. But they did this in literally the cheapest way possible, so the new undivided 4-lane isn't all that much better.
Quote from: Henry on October 26, 2017, 10:39:11 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 25, 2017, 11:24:22 PM
Quote from: corco on October 25, 2017, 11:06:42 PM
I-25 between Cheyenne and Casper
I-70 from Green River (US 6 and 191) west to US 89.
I-40 from Barstow to OKC, and every other western Interstate...ever.
Except for I-5, I-84, I-90, I-80, I-10...
Quote from: JasonOfORoads on October 27, 2017, 04:00:19 PM
Quote from: Henry on October 26, 2017, 10:39:11 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 25, 2017, 11:24:22 PM
Quote from: corco on October 25, 2017, 11:06:42 PM
I-25 between Cheyenne and Casper
I-70 from Green River (US 6 and 191) west to US 89.
I-40 from Barstow to OKC, and every other western Interstate...ever.
Except for I-5, I-84, I-90, I-80, I-10...
Yeah, and I-25 between Denver and Colorado Springs should probably not be a 2-lane road.
Quote from: kphoger on October 27, 2017, 04:05:16 PM
Quote from: JasonOfORoads on October 27, 2017, 04:00:19 PM
Quote from: Henry on October 26, 2017, 10:39:11 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 25, 2017, 11:24:22 PM
Quote from: corco on October 25, 2017, 11:06:42 PM
I-25 between Cheyenne and Casper
I-70 from Green River (US 6 and 191) west to US 89.
I-40 from Barstow to OKC, and every other western Interstate...ever.
Except for I-5, I-84, I-90, I-80, I-10...
Yeah, and I-25 between Denver and Colorado Springs should probably not be a 2-lane road.
Or I-82 which carries all Seattle traffic from east of I-5/south of I-90, or I-15 especially anywhere from SLC south to SD.
Quote from: froggie on October 23, 2017, 07:57:52 AM
As a general rule, anything with less than 15K ADT in an urban area or less than the 8-10K range in a rural area.
I disagree. Not for reasons of capacity, but for reasons of safety.
As you know, I-95 between Bangor, Maine and Houlton was mostly Super-2 when it opened to traffic. In spite of many large signs warning drivers that they were on a two-lane undivided highway, there were many head-on crashes, and it is now a conventional-looking 4 lane rural Interstate, in spite of low traffic counts.
Many U.S. drivers are not familiar with high-speed 2 lane roads, and the risk of forgetting that they are on such a road is significant.
Now there are some Super-2 (or close to Super-2) highways that have a rigid or semi-rigid barrier in the middle to deter most of those head-on collisions. I-93 through Franconia Notch in New Hampshire has one (not sure if the barrier was there when it opened to traffic or not), MD-90 in Worcester County (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.3809581,-75.1691476,3a,75y,40.19h,68.17t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCEyZ-HsR4HSl0Qptgiq_eg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) was retrofitted with such a barrier and National Highway 34 (https://www.google.se/maps/@58.4403043,15.5228026,3a,75y,296.69h,64.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYKp38AMk-ZEqLl7F2RDSuQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) in Sweden has a cable barrier in the middle.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on October 27, 2017, 05:18:23 PM
National Highway 34 (https://www.google.se/maps/@58.4403043,15.5228026,3a,75y,296.69h,64.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYKp38AMk-ZEqLl7F2RDSuQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) in Sweden has a cable barrier in the middle.
Reminds me of E18, which has
a barrier down the middle (https://goo.gl/maps/QG5WijhcH8S2) for some stretches.
I-75 in the UP of Michigan, but of course its an interstate and has to be four lanes. However, when I drove it there were very few cars on it. Most likely cause there is nothing north of the Canadian Border and the connecting highway in Canada is ON 17 which runs E-W to points elsewhere that other border crossings serve is the reason.
Keith Richardson Parkway in Townsend, ON. https://goo.gl/maps/KdxtD4QdRKn (https://goo.gl/maps/KdxtD4QdRKn)
Townsend was planned in the 1970's to grow into a city of 100 000 to serve industries in mearby Nanticoke, but people decided to live in other established towns instead. The four lane parkway is very overbuilt for the current community.
^^^ CP, since the OP didn't specify, I was speaking to all roadway types and not Interstates specifically. But even then, there are some Interstate routes that are so sparsely trafficked that 2 lanes would suffice despite the "safety issues".
Quote from: Beltway on October 26, 2017, 08:32:34 PM
Quote from: Takumi on October 26, 2017, 04:48:21 PM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on October 25, 2017, 09:54:43 AM
Quote from: Takumi on October 24, 2017, 06:59:59 PM
Most US routes that were 4-laned before the interstate system and then bypassed by an interstate. Three that come to mind for me are US 1 and 301 south of Petersburg, and US 60 between I-295 and VA 30.
I've always felt that US 301 being 4-lane divided from Emporia to Jarratt was a bit overkill, but it does make for a nice alternative to I-95 since there tend to be fewer trucks on that stretch.
Well, yeah, now, but when it was done it was likely busier. The abandoned businesses along the stretch probably did fairly well back in the day, and the now-sketchy motels around the Sussex-Greensville line were probably more inviting. I'd say US 1 between South Hill and McKenney is more overkill nowadays.
The 28 miles of US-301 between just north of Emporia and VA-35, was dualized to 4 lanes in the late 1950s. Excepting that section the rest of I-95 in Virginia was completed by 1965, and I-95 seamlessly connected with that 28 mile 4-lane segment of US-301. About 19,000 AADT was using that segment of US-301 when the last 28 miles of I-95 was built 1977-1982, it definitely needed 4 lanes.
The 18 miles of US-301 between Jarratt and VA-35 was rebuilt to Interstate standards, and the NB US-301 roadway was rebuilt into the SB I-95 roadway. The SB US-301 roadway was relegated back to its original two-way roadway. A 1.5 mile US-301 section at Carson was bypassed and remains with 4 lanes.
The 10 miles of US-301 between Jarratt and just north of Emporia was bypassed by I-95 and remains with 4 lanes. It only carries about 4,000 AADT and IMO could be relegated back to 2 lanes, the older roadway would be demolished and obscured. There have been two bridge replacements on the older roadway (1999 and 2017) and the removal of both bridges over the abandoned NF&D Railroad crossing just north of Jarratt, those could have been obviated by the removal of that roadway. I am not sure why that was not proposed, but probably FHWA would not have funded it when I-95 was built. It would be expensive, probably $5 million or more in today's dollars. Maybe one or both county governments opposed it and want it to remain at 4 lanes.
Why was there such a long wait for construction of that section? Just lack of necessity? Also, what was traffic like on 301 during the time that I-95 was being constructed and 301 was down to 2 lanes? I've been curious about it for years since it was before my time.
Quote from: Takumi on October 28, 2017, 12:36:08 PM
Quote from: Beltway on October 26, 2017, 08:32:34 PM
The 28 miles of US-301 between just north of Emporia and VA-35, was dualized to 4 lanes in the late 1950s. Excepting that section the rest of I-95 in Virginia was completed by 1965, and I-95 seamlessly connected with that 28 mile 4-lane segment of US-301. About 19,000 AADT was using that segment of US-301 when the last 28 miles of I-95 was built 1977-1982, it definitely needed 4 lanes.
The 18 miles of US-301 between Jarratt and VA-35 was rebuilt to Interstate standards, and the NB US-301 roadway was rebuilt into the SB I-95 roadway. The SB US-301 roadway was relegated back to its original two-way roadway. A 1.5 mile US-301 section at Carson was bypassed and remains with 4 lanes.
The 10 miles of US-301 between Jarratt and just north of Emporia was bypassed by I-95 and remains with 4 lanes. It only carries about 4,000 AADT and IMO could be relegated back to 2 lanes, the older roadway would be demolished and obscured. There have been two bridge replacements on the older roadway (1999 and 2017) and the removal of both bridges over the abandoned NF&D Railroad crossing just north of Jarratt, those could have been obviated by the removal of that roadway. I am not sure why that was not proposed, but probably FHWA would not have funded it when I-95 was built. It would be expensive, probably $5 million or more in today's dollars. Maybe one or both county governments opposed it and want it to remain at 4 lanes.
Why was there such a long wait for construction of that section? Just lack of necessity? Also, what was traffic like on 301 during the time that I-95 was being constructed and 301 was down to 2 lanes? I've been curious about it for years since it was before my time.
The stretching out of the timespan of the construction of the original national Interstate highway system, due to cost inflation and increasing environmental standards, put this section near the end of that period.
The US-301 traffic flowed at near Interstate service as there was only one traffic signal, so it was not high priority even though it was the I-95 corridor (N.C. likewise had two I-95 gaps served by 4-lane highways and these were not completed until 1978 and 1982).
On the parts that were upgraded to Interstate standards:
Mainline traffic was maintained at 4 lanes thruout this project. I-95 NB roadway was built, and NB traffic was shifted to there. Then the US-301 NB roadway was widened and upgraded to Interstate standards, and the SB traffic was shifted to there. Some portions of the US-301 SB roadway were relocated to provide space at interchanges, and when all complete the US-301 two-way traffic was placed there. Overpasses and interchanges were built.
Quote from: roadman65 on October 27, 2017, 09:39:11 PM
I-75 in the UP of Michigan, but of course its an interstate and has to be four lanes. However, when I drove it there were very few cars on it. Most likely cause there is nothing north of the Canadian Border and the connecting highway in Canada is ON 17 which runs E-W to points elsewhere that other border crossings serve is the reason.
I'm not entirely sure that last part works because the nearest border crossings in either direction are a really long way away–Grand Portage to the west, the Blue Water Bridge to the east (so basically Lakes Superior and Huron get in the way). I think your first part is the key point: That part of Ontario is extremely empty!
Quote from: Beltway on October 28, 2017, 12:52:54 PM
Quote from: Takumi on October 28, 2017, 12:36:08 PM
Quote from: Beltway on October 26, 2017, 08:32:34 PM
The 28 miles of US-301 between just north of Emporia and VA-35, was dualized to 4 lanes in the late 1950s. Excepting that section the rest of I-95 in Virginia was completed by 1965, and I-95 seamlessly connected with that 28 mile 4-lane segment of US-301. About 19,000 AADT was using that segment of US-301 when the last 28 miles of I-95 was built 1977-1982, it definitely needed 4 lanes.
The 18 miles of US-301 between Jarratt and VA-35 was rebuilt to Interstate standards, and the NB US-301 roadway was rebuilt into the SB I-95 roadway. The SB US-301 roadway was relegated back to its original two-way roadway. A 1.5 mile US-301 section at Carson was bypassed and remains with 4 lanes.
The 10 miles of US-301 between Jarratt and just north of Emporia was bypassed by I-95 and remains with 4 lanes. It only carries about 4,000 AADT and IMO could be relegated back to 2 lanes, the older roadway would be demolished and obscured. There have been two bridge replacements on the older roadway (1999 and 2017) and the removal of both bridges over the abandoned NF&D Railroad crossing just north of Jarratt, those could have been obviated by the removal of that roadway. I am not sure why that was not proposed, but probably FHWA would not have funded it when I-95 was built. It would be expensive, probably $5 million or more in today's dollars. Maybe one or both county governments opposed it and want it to remain at 4 lanes.
Why was there such a long wait for construction of that section? Just lack of necessity? Also, what was traffic like on 301 during the time that I-95 was being constructed and 301 was down to 2 lanes? I’ve been curious about it for years since it was before my time.
The stretching out of the timespan of the construction of the original national Interstate highway system, due to cost inflation and increasing environmental standards, put this section near the end of that period.
The US-301 traffic flowed at near Interstate service as there was only one traffic signal, so it was not high priority even though it was the I-95 corridor (N.C. likewise had two I-95 gaps served by 4-lane highways and these were not completed until 1978 and 1982).
On the parts that were upgraded to Interstate standards:
Mainline traffic was maintained at 4 lanes thruout this project. I-95 NB roadway was built, and NB traffic was shifted to there. Then the US-301 NB roadway was widened and upgraded to Interstate standards, and the SB traffic was shifted to there. Some portions of the US-301 SB roadway were relocated to provide space at interchanges, and when all complete the US-301 two-way traffic was placed there. Overpasses and interchanges were built.
It was a quick change signal at where now the two lane US 301 frontage road is with VA 40 Business. It was not that much of a difference except before the National 55 law when VDOT had freeways at higher speed limits and the four lane non freeways were even 55 then.
I believe the four lanes of US 301 were a temporary fix as I once read that it was widened after the sections of I-94 north of VA 35 and south of Emporia were completed.
Also, that one ramp at Exit 6 that is redundant of the next exit there was the original freeway terminus that defaulted onto US 301 while the SB lanes of US 301 defaulted onto I-95 which are now ripped up to allow for the current freeway to be built. VDOT never tore the overpass down that carried SB US 301 over NB I-95 and decided to use it as a ramp even though just to the north you have a diamond interchange with another road that connects to US 301. Exit 6 was originally a wye basically.
In NC the Rocky Mount and Wilson four lane US 301 from NC 4 in Battleboro to I-95 at Kenly might of been widened too after the sections of I-95 were built from north of Gold Rock to south of Kenly as a temp fix. For Fayetteville, although the freeway from north of the Cape Fear River to where the current Business I-95 terminates was built with I-95 and was signed as it until the Fayetteville Bypass was completed in 1982 or 83 so it there might of been simultaneously done when I-95 was completed north and south of there . Back then there was no Future interstate signing and temp routes never got put under scrutiny then. Also both ends of the Faytteville Bypass and Business I-95 had no interchanges at all and did a smooth transition unlike Gold Rock and Kenly that did have interchanges built for anticipation of the future freeways, though the bridge carrying I-95 over US 301 in Kenly was refurbished before the fully completed freeway was done hence the bridge looking the same as all the bridges north of Kenly.
Quote from: roadman65 on October 28, 2017, 03:37:51 PM
Quote from: Beltway on October 28, 2017, 12:52:54 PM
Quote from: Takumi on October 28, 2017, 12:36:08 PM
Quote from: Beltway on October 26, 2017, 08:32:34 PM
The 28 miles of US-301 between just north of Emporia and VA-35, was dualized to 4 lanes in the late 1950s. Excepting that section the rest of I-95 in Virginia was completed by 1965, and I-95 seamlessly connected with that 28 mile 4-lane segment of US-301. About 19,000 AADT was using that segment of US-301 when the last 28 miles of I-95 was built 1977-1982, it definitely needed 4 lanes.
The 18 miles of US-301 between Jarratt and VA-35 was rebuilt to Interstate standards, and the NB US-301 roadway was rebuilt into the SB I-95 roadway. The SB US-301 roadway was relegated back to its original two-way roadway. A 1.5 mile US-301 section at Carson was bypassed and remains with 4 lanes.
The 10 miles of US-301 between Jarratt and just north of Emporia was bypassed by I-95 and remains with 4 lanes. It only carries about 4,000 AADT and IMO could be relegated back to 2 lanes, the older roadway would be demolished and obscured. There have been two bridge replacements on the older roadway (1999 and 2017) and the removal of both bridges over the abandoned NF&D Railroad crossing just north of Jarratt, those could have been obviated by the removal of that roadway. I am not sure why that was not proposed, but probably FHWA would not have funded it when I-95 was built. It would be expensive, probably $5 million or more in today's dollars. Maybe one or both county governments opposed it and want it to remain at 4 lanes.
Why was there such a long wait for construction of that section? Just lack of necessity? Also, what was traffic like on 301 during the time that I-95 was being constructed and 301 was down to 2 lanes? I've been curious about it for years since it was before my time.
The stretching out of the timespan of the construction of the original national Interstate highway system, due to cost inflation and increasing environmental standards, put this section near the end of that period.
The US-301 traffic flowed at near Interstate service as there was only one traffic signal, so it was not high priority even though it was the I-95 corridor (N.C. likewise had two I-95 gaps served by 4-lane highways and these were not completed until 1978 and 1982).
On the parts that were upgraded to Interstate standards:
Mainline traffic was maintained at 4 lanes thruout this project. I-95 NB roadway was built, and NB traffic was shifted to there. Then the US-301 NB roadway was widened and upgraded to Interstate standards, and the SB traffic was shifted to there. Some portions of the US-301 SB roadway were relocated to provide space at interchanges, and when all complete the US-301 two-way traffic was placed there. Overpasses and interchanges were built.
It was a quick change signal at where now the two lane US 301 frontage road is with VA 40 Business. It was not that much of a difference except before the National 55 law when VDOT had freeways at higher speed limits and the four lane non freeways were even 55 then.
I believe the four lanes of US 301 were a temporary fix as I once read that it was widened after the sections of I-94 north of VA 35 and south of Emporia were completed.
Not quite. I-95 was open to VA 35 in 1961 and the 4-lane section of 301, as Scott said, was a few years before that.
Overall, sounds pretty interesting. I imagine the 301/40 intersection was much busier than it is now. Even the exit to the north is busier due to the Davis Travel Plaza.
Quote from: Takumi on October 28, 2017, 07:14:35 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on October 28, 2017, 03:37:51 PM
It was a quick change signal at where now the two lane US 301 frontage road is with VA 40 Business. It was not that much of a difference except before the National 55 law when VDOT had freeways at higher speed limits and the four lane non freeways were even 55 then.
I believe the four lanes of US 301 were a temporary fix as I once read that it was widened after the sections of I-94 north of VA 35 and south of Emporia were completed.
Not quite. I-95 was open to VA 35 in 1961 and the 4-lane section of 301, as Scott said, was a few years before that.
The 13 miles of I-95 between NC and north of Emporia was open by 1963. The 28 miles of 4-lane US-301 was seamless with I-95 north and south of it.
Quote from: Takumi on October 28, 2017, 07:14:35 PM
Overall, sounds pretty interesting. I imagine the 301/40 intersection was much busier than it is now. Even the exit to the north is busier due to the Davis Travel Plaza.
The US-301 roadways were about 80 feet apart at the VA-40 junction, so there were actually two signalized intersections, one for each US-301 roadway, and the signals were timed to work together. VA-40 was two lanes thruout and lined up where the current US-301/Business VA-40 intersection is located. Pretty sure that the signals had a loop actuated left turn movement for US-301 to VA-40.
The VA-40 Stony Creek Bypass was built as part of the I-95 project.
Many of Kentucky's rural four-lanes have mountable medians or TWLTLs instead of grass medians or concrete barriers. Only a handful have real medians.
And there's that section of US 460 southeast of Petersburg, Va., that has only two yellow painted lines as a divider.
Quote from: hbelkins on October 28, 2017, 07:42:06 PM
Many of Kentucky's rural four-lanes have mountable medians or TWLTLs instead of grass medians or concrete barriers. Only a handful have real medians.
And there's that section of US 460 southeast of Petersburg, Va., that has only two yellow painted lines as a divider.
Because it was built about 1940, a very early 4-lane design when medians were rare.
Quote from: Beltway on October 28, 2017, 07:34:11 PM
Quote from: Takumi on October 28, 2017, 07:14:35 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on October 28, 2017, 03:37:51 PM
It was a quick change signal at where now the two lane US 301 frontage road is with VA 40 Business. It was not that much of a difference except before the National 55 law when VDOT had freeways at higher speed limits and the four lane non freeways were even 55 then.
I believe the four lanes of US 301 were a temporary fix as I once read that it was widened after the sections of I-94 north of VA 35 and south of Emporia were completed.
Not quite. I-95 was open to VA 35 in 1961 and the 4-lane section of 301, as Scott said, was a few years before that.
The 13 miles of I-95 between NC and north of Emporia was open by 1963. The 28 miles of 4-lane US-301 was seamless with I-95 north and south of it.
Quote from: Takumi on October 28, 2017, 07:14:35 PM
Overall, sounds pretty interesting. I imagine the 301/40 intersection was much busier than it is now. Even the exit to the north is busier due to the Davis Travel Plaza.
The US-301 roadways were about 80 feet apart at the VA-40 junction, so there were actually two signalized intersections, one for each US-301 roadway, and the signals were timed to work together. VA-40 was two lanes thruout and lined up where the current US-301/Business VA-40 intersection is located. Pretty sure that the signals had a loop actuated left turn movement for US-301 to VA-40.
The VA-40 Stony Creek Bypass was built as part of the I-95 project.
Sounds a bit like the VA 36 intersections at the Crossings shopping center in Hopewell.
Quote from: Beltway on October 28, 2017, 07:54:30 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 28, 2017, 07:42:06 PM
Many of Kentucky's rural four-lanes have mountable medians or TWLTLs instead of grass medians or concrete barriers. Only a handful have real medians.
And there's that section of US 460 southeast of Petersburg, Va., that has only two yellow painted lines as a divider.
Because it was built about 1940, a very early 4-lane design when medians were rare.
There are long sections of U.S. 1 in Virginia that feature that design to this day, and probably always will.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on October 29, 2017, 06:12:25 PM
Quote from: Beltway on October 28, 2017, 07:54:30 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 28, 2017, 07:42:06 PM
Many of Kentucky's rural four-lanes have mountable medians or TWLTLs instead of grass medians or concrete barriers. Only a handful have real medians.
And there's that section of US 460 southeast of Petersburg, Va., that has only two yellow painted lines as a divider.
Because it was built about 1940, a very early 4-lane design when medians were rare.
There are long sections of U.S. 1 in Virginia that feature that design to this day, and probably always will.
Yes, I thought of adding that, US-1 between Petersburg and Arlington was built at that same time as a 4-lane undivided highway. Some places it has been widened or rebuilt but most of the route has not.
I-95 north of Bangor.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on October 29, 2017, 10:26:57 PM
I-95 north of Bangor.
Reply #44:
Quote from: cpzilliacus on October 27, 2017, 05:18:23 PM
As you know, I-95 between Bangor, Maine and Houlton was mostly Super-2 when it opened to traffic. In spite of many large signs warning drivers that they were on a two-lane undivided highway, there were many head-on crashes, and it is now a conventional-looking 4 lane rural Interstate, in spite of low traffic counts.
Many U.S. drivers are not familiar with high-speed 2 lane roads, and the risk of forgetting that they are on such a road is significant.
Quote from: Beltway on October 29, 2017, 08:46:53 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on October 29, 2017, 06:12:25 PM
Quote from: Beltway on October 28, 2017, 07:54:30 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 28, 2017, 07:42:06 PM
Many of Kentucky's rural four-lanes have mountable medians or TWLTLs instead of grass medians or concrete barriers. Only a handful have real medians.
And there's that section of US 460 southeast of Petersburg, Va., that has only two yellow painted lines as a divider.
Because it was built about 1940, a very early 4-lane design when medians were rare.
There are long sections of U.S. 1 in Virginia that feature that design to this day, and probably always will.
Yes, I thought of adding that, US-1 between Petersburg and Arlington was built at that same time as a 4-lane undivided highway. Some places it has been widened or rebuilt but most of the route has not.
Most of it north of Richmond is undivided with a double line and no paved median.
To get back with roads without a median, you have further south on US 1 where in GA north of Baxley it has a 6 feet paved median with dual double lines on both sides. It last for several miles up until about the Emanuel County line south of Lyons.
I believe most of the Merricmac Trail and Jefferson Avenue (VA 143) is four lanes and no median as that was old VA 168 which was pretty much the main highway before I-64 between Norfolk and Toano and not US 60 as that was pretty much two lanes mostly between Newport News and Williamsburg and for years was even two lanes up to Busch Gardens.
Quote from: Takumi on October 28, 2017, 10:38:05 PM
Quote from: Beltway on October 28, 2017, 07:34:11 PM
Quote from: Takumi on October 28, 2017, 07:14:35 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on October 28, 2017, 03:37:51 PM
It was a quick change signal at where now the two lane US 301 frontage road is with VA 40 Business. It was not that much of a difference except before the National 55 law when VDOT had freeways at higher speed limits and the four lane non freeways were even 55 then.
I believe the four lanes of US 301 were a temporary fix as I once read that it was widened after the sections of I-94 north of VA 35 and south of Emporia were completed.
Not quite. I-95 was open to VA 35 in 1961 and the 4-lane section of 301, as Scott said, was a few years before that.
The 13 miles of I-95 between NC and north of Emporia was open by 1963. The 28 miles of 4-lane US-301 was seamless with I-95 north and south of it.
Quote from: Takumi on October 28, 2017, 07:14:35 PM
Overall, sounds pretty interesting. I imagine the 301/40 intersection was much busier than it is now. Even the exit to the north is busier due to the Davis Travel Plaza.
The US-301 roadways were about 80 feet apart at the VA-40 junction, so there were actually two signalized intersections, one for each US-301 roadway, and the signals were timed to work together. VA-40 was two lanes thruout and lined up where the current US-301/Business VA-40 intersection is located. Pretty sure that the signals had a loop actuated left turn movement for US-301 to VA-40.
The VA-40 Stony Creek Bypass was built as part of the I-95 project.
Sounds a bit like the VA 36 intersections at the Crossings shopping center in Hopewell.
Virginia always had some very interesting construction techniques and ideas... I-64 between Exits 231 and 238 was definitely built in the same manner as I-95 between VA 35 and Jarrett. In I-64's case, the freeway's EB lanes were built on top of VA 168's WB lanes, while the freeway's WB lanes were built on new alignment to the north. VA 168's EB lanes (which is today's Rochambeau Dr) became a two-way road like much of US 301 did. Only difference is VA 168 (now gone from this area of course) actually got shifted onto I-64 while US 301 remained on the separate roadway(s).
Makes me wonder if any agencies outside of Virginia did something similar when building rural expressways
Quote from: plain on October 30, 2017, 05:42:59 PM
Virginia always had some very interesting construction techniques and ideas... I-64 between Exits 231 and 238 was definitely built in the same manner as I-95 between VA 35 and Jarrett. In I-64's case, the freeway's EB lanes were built on top of VA 168's WB lanes, while the freeway's WB lanes were built on new alignment to the north. VA 168's EB lanes (which is today's Rochambeau Dr) became a two-way road like much of US 301 did. Only difference is VA 168 (now gone from this area of course) actually got shifted onto I-64 while US 301 remained on the separate roadway(s).
Makes me wonder if any agencies outside of Virginia did something similar when building rural expressways
Most likely. The aforementioned I-64 and I-95 segments had several characteristics that together led to this method, 1) nonlimited-access 4-lane divided highway on an alignment usable for Interstate standards, 2) rural enough area that land can be acquired on one side of the existing highway without excessive right-of-way costs, and 3) land uses along existing highway that are compatible for Interstate highway.
The 4-land divided US-60 between Bottoms Bridge and Toano did not meet all those conditions, so I-64 was built on a new location bypass.
Quote from: plain on October 30, 2017, 05:42:59 PM
Makes me wonder if any agencies outside of Virginia did something similar when building rural expressways
Maryland did one better with I-70 in Frederick and Howard Counties between present-day Exit 59 (MD-144) and Exit 82 (U.S. 40) - this was the west end of the old I-70N. Between those two exits, what is now I-70/U.S. 40 was just U.S. 40 (Baltimore National Pike), a four lane divided arterial with quite a few signalized intersections (including, if memory serves, every current interchange except at what is now Exit 59). Maryland came in and converted the old arterial highway to the 6 lane freeway that runs there now.
Further west, in Washington County, Maryland, present-day I-70/U.S. 40 was once U.S. 40 (National Pike) east of Hancock. I was on that road before I-70 arrived, but I do not recall what it looked like.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on October 30, 2017, 10:35:47 PM
Maryland did one better with I-70 in Frederick and Howard Counties between present-day Exit 59 (MD-144) and Exit 82 (U.S. 40) - this was the west end of the old I-70N. Between those two exits, what is now I-70/U.S. 40 was just U.S. 40 (Baltimore National Pike), a four lane divided arterial with quite a few signalized intersections (including, if memory serves, every current interchange except at what is now Exit 59). Maryland came in and converted the old arterial highway to the 6 lane freeway that runs there now.
But wasn't that segment of US-40 already an at-grade expressway, meaning built on a limited access right-of-way? Better design standards to begin with, considerably simplifying its conversion to full freeway standards.