I saw that they announced the actual name for AZ 30 in SW Phoenix.
first news I heard on this freeway in a while, but it's needed so glad something is happening.
http://www.abc15.com/news/region-phoenix-metro/central-phoenix/new-proposed-valley-freeway-state-route-30-named-tres-rios-
Last graph was interesting as well:
Planning and work began last year and Arizona Department of Transportation officials have narrowed down possible routes for the Interstate 11 that would run 280 miles from Nogales to Wickenburg.
The fact that we could go back to having a freeway extend West from the Durango curve as originally planned in the 60's is kind of funny. That being said, I really think that southern section of I-17 needs to be totally rebuilt if they plan on extending through traffic to the west.
Interesting that the name with the Three Rivers; Gila, Salt, and Agua Fria. Fitting name I supposed, personally I would prefer an X0X route number.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 26, 2017, 11:41:54 PM
Interesting that the name with the Three Rivers; Gila, Salt, and Agua Fria. Fitting name I supposed, personally I would prefer an X0X route number.
It's not a loop, therefore no X0X number. But then again, the 303 isn't a loop, either, and AFAIK was never proposed as one.
Naming it the Tres Rios Freeway is perfectly fine. The Durango Freeway name goes back to the late 1950s, when it was supposed to be the west leg of I-10.
Quote from: KeithE4Phx on October 27, 2017, 12:37:37 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 26, 2017, 11:41:54 PM
Interesting that the name with the Three Rivers; Gila, Salt, and Agua Fria. Fitting name I supposed, personally I would prefer an X0X route number.
It's not a loop, therefore no X0X number. But then again, the 303 isn't a loop, either, and AFAIK was never proposed as one.
Naming it the Tres Rios Freeway is perfectly fine. The Durango Freeway name goes back to the late 1950s, when it was supposed to be the west leg of I-10.
I agree, that's a great name! I would've liked it to be an I-x11 spur, but it probably would've been too long, and so AZ 30 it is.
Quote from: Henry on October 27, 2017, 09:48:23 AM
Quote from: KeithE4Phx on October 27, 2017, 12:37:37 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 26, 2017, 11:41:54 PM
Interesting that the name with the Three Rivers; Gila, Salt, and Agua Fria. Fitting name I supposed, personally I would prefer an X0X route number.
It's not a loop, therefore no X0X number. But then again, the 303 isn't a loop, either, and AFAIK was never proposed as one.
Naming it the Tres Rios Freeway is perfectly fine. The Durango Freeway name goes back to the late 1950s, when it was supposed to be the west leg of I-10.
I agree, that's a great name! I would've liked it to be an I-x11 spur, but it probably would've been too long, and so AZ 30 it is.
I sincerely doubt ADOT is ever revisiting the concept of 3d Interstates after all these years. The 101, 202, and even most of US 60 on the Superstition freeway I believe are already Interstate standards I believe. In theory something like the 101 would make a great X17 but ADOT won't apply for the Intestate designation.
What I'm not understanding is why 30? What significance does 30 have other than just some random number? 24 is much of the same thing out in the East Valley as well. Loop or not all the freeways in Phoenix ought to have some sort of continuity in numbering with previously established conventions. I suppose that the semi-sensible numbering convention Arizona had in general is long gone with US 66, 666, and 80 pushed out of the picture but it would still be to have something that would make sense.
BUT...I will say that even though I'm not a huge fan of freeway naming that ADOT generally does a pretty job at giving them something memorable. For the most part Phoenix is probably the only city I can recall all the freeway names off the top of my head.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 27, 2017, 10:00:04 AM
Quote from: Henry on October 27, 2017, 09:48:23 AM
Quote from: KeithE4Phx on October 27, 2017, 12:37:37 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 26, 2017, 11:41:54 PM
Interesting that the name with the Three Rivers; Gila, Salt, and Agua Fria. Fitting name I supposed, personally I would prefer an X0X route number.
It's not a loop, therefore no X0X number. But then again, the 303 isn't a loop, either, and AFAIK was never proposed as one.
Naming it the Tres Rios Freeway is perfectly fine. The Durango Freeway name goes back to the late 1950s, when it was supposed to be the west leg of I-10.
I agree, that's a great name! I would've liked it to be an I-x11 spur, but it probably would've been too long, and so AZ 30 it is.
I sincerely doubt ADOT is ever revisiting the concept of 3d Interstates after all these years. The 101, 202, and even most of US 60 on the Superstition freeway I believe are already Interstate standards I believe. In theory something like the 101 would make a great X17 but ADOT won't apply for the Intestate designation.
What I'm not understanding is why 30? What significance does 30 have other than just some random number? 24 is much of the same thing out in the East Valley as well. Loop or not all the freeways in Phoenix ought to have some sort of continuity in numbering with previously established conventions. I suppose that the semi-sensible numbering convention Arizona had in general is long gone with US 66, 666, and 80 pushed out of the picture but it would still be to have something that would make sense.
BUT...I will say that even though I'm not a huge fan of freeway naming that ADOT generally does a pretty job at giving them something memorable. For the most part Phoenix is probably the only city I can recall all the freeway names off the top of my head.
I think 303 could theoretically get close to being a loop. I recall there was the idea of an outer loop going almost all the way around, but in reality the chance of building it through Cave Creek/Carefree would never fly plus too many natural barriers in the NE valley. But if it ends up being finished it creates at least a half loop around the metro area.
But as for AZ 30, I recall not long ago that was planned to be AZ 801, and the 24 to be AZ 802, and the AZ 803 along the Hunt Hwy corridor. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Phoenix_Metro_Area_Future_Freeway_System.svg
Not sure why that changed either, not that 801 made any sense more than 30 does. If AZ were to ever re-visit 3di's, this AZ 30 really would make sense as I-317 being that it would eventually "start" at I-17 and end at I-11, just seems like the most logical candidate for one of there was one to me.
Quote from: kdk on October 31, 2017, 04:54:15 PM
But as for AZ 30, I recall not long ago that was planned to be AZ 801, and the 24 to be AZ 802, and the AZ 803 along the Hunt Hwy corridor. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Phoenix_Metro_Area_Future_Freeway_System.svg
"the numbering of future routes is hypothetical." 801 and 802 were legit, but I can't find any evidence of 803.
Renumber to AZ 185 or AZ 380
Quote from: mapman1071 on October 31, 2017, 09:19:07 PM
Renumber to AZ 185 or AZ 380
The 185 I get but why 380? US 80 used to be around but is long gone.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 31, 2017, 09:20:36 PM
Quote from: mapman1071 on October 31, 2017, 09:19:07 PM
Renumber to AZ 185 or AZ 380
The 185 I get but why 380? US 80 used to be around but is long gone.
AZ has Orphaned 189, 289, & 389
Quote from: mapman1071 on October 31, 2017, 09:38:21 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 31, 2017, 09:20:36 PM
Quote from: mapman1071 on October 31, 2017, 09:19:07 PM
Renumber to AZ 185 or AZ 380
The 185 I get but why 380? US 80 used to be around but is long gone.
AZ has Orphaned 189, 289, & 389
Yes, but they actually existed when US 89 was still around. Seems kind of odd to create an orphan for a long dead route.
Quote from: NE2 on October 31, 2017, 05:32:28 PM
Quote from: kdk on October 31, 2017, 04:54:15 PM
But as for AZ 30, I recall not long ago that was planned to be AZ 801, and the 24 to be AZ 802, and the AZ 803 along the Hunt Hwy corridor. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Phoenix_Metro_Area_Future_Freeway_System.svg
"the numbering of future routes is hypothetical." 801 and 802 were legit, but I can't find any evidence of 803.
I couldn't find anything either other than that map in the link, and some references to an E-W freeway along Hunt Hwy, which was dropped anyway from the long term plans due to public resistance if I recall correctly. Never saw it referenced as 803 though.
Quote from: kdk on October 31, 2017, 04:54:15 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 27, 2017, 10:00:04 AM
Quote from: Henry on October 27, 2017, 09:48:23 AM
Quote from: KeithE4Phx on October 27, 2017, 12:37:37 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 26, 2017, 11:41:54 PM
Interesting that the name with the Three Rivers; Gila, Salt, and Agua Fria. Fitting name I supposed, personally I would prefer an X0X route number.
It's not a loop, therefore no X0X number. But then again, the 303 isn't a loop, either, and AFAIK was never proposed as one.
Naming it the Tres Rios Freeway is perfectly fine. The Durango Freeway name goes back to the late 1950s, when it was supposed to be the west leg of I-10.
I agree, that's a great name! I would've liked it to be an I-x11 spur, but it probably would've been too long, and so AZ 30 it is.
I sincerely doubt ADOT is ever revisiting the concept of 3d Interstates after all these years. The 101, 202, and even most of US 60 on the Superstition freeway I believe are already Interstate standards I believe. In theory something like the 101 would make a great X17 but ADOT won't apply for the Intestate designation.
What I'm not understanding is why 30? What significance does 30 have other than just some random number? 24 is much of the same thing out in the East Valley as well. Loop or not all the freeways in Phoenix ought to have some sort of continuity in numbering with previously established conventions. I suppose that the semi-sensible numbering convention Arizona had in general is long gone with US 66, 666, and 80 pushed out of the picture but it would still be to have something that would make sense.
BUT...I will say that even though I'm not a huge fan of freeway naming that ADOT generally does a pretty job at giving them something memorable. For the most part Phoenix is probably the only city I can recall all the freeway names off the top of my head.
I think 303 could theoretically get close to being a loop. I recall there was the idea of an outer loop going almost all the way around, but in reality the chance of building it through Cave Creek/Carefree would never fly plus too many natural barriers in the NE valley. But if it ends up being finished it creates at least a half loop around the metro area.
But as for AZ 30, I recall not long ago that was planned to be AZ 801, and the 24 to be AZ 802, and the AZ 803 along the Hunt Hwy corridor. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Phoenix_Metro_Area_Future_Freeway_System.svg
Not sure why that changed either, not that 801 made any sense more than 30 does. If AZ were to ever re-visit 3di's, this AZ 30 really would make sense as I-317 being that it would eventually "start" at I-17 and end at I-11, just seems like the most logical candidate for one of there was one to me.
Why would I-117 not seem more logical since it connects I-11 to I-17...
As long as it is an odd number it would be an implied different route than the mainline Interstate.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 27, 2017, 10:00:04 AM
Quote from: Henry on October 27, 2017, 09:48:23 AM
Quote from: KeithE4Phx on October 27, 2017, 12:37:37 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 26, 2017, 11:41:54 PM
Interesting that the name with the Three Rivers; Gila, Salt, and Agua Fria. Fitting name I supposed, personally I would prefer an X0X route number.
It's not a loop, therefore no X0X number. But then again, the 303 isn't a loop, either, and AFAIK was never proposed as one.
Naming it the Tres Rios Freeway is perfectly fine. The Durango Freeway name goes back to the late 1950s, when it was supposed to be the west leg of I-10.
I agree, that's a great name! I would've liked it to be an I-x11 spur, but it probably would've been too long, and so AZ 30 it is.
I sincerely doubt ADOT is ever revisiting the concept of 3d Interstates after all these years. The 101, 202, and even most of US 60 on the Superstition freeway I believe are already Interstate standards I believe. In theory something like the 101 would make a great X17 but ADOT won't apply for the Intestate designation.
What I'm not understanding is why 30? What significance does 30 have other than just some random number? 24 is much of the same thing out in the East Valley as well. Loop or not all the freeways in Phoenix ought to have some sort of continuity in numbering with previously established conventions. I suppose that the semi-sensible numbering convention Arizona had in general is long gone with US 66, 666, and 80 pushed out of the picture but it would still be to have something that would make sense.
BUT...I will say that even though I'm not a huge fan of freeway naming that ADOT generally does a pretty job at giving them something memorable. For the most part Phoenix is probably the only city I can recall all the freeway names off the top of my head.
Why are they (ADOT) so against Interstate designations for their loops? Sure it has been discussed before, here, just asking again. The loops certainly seem to be well constructed, and meet standards. Have an old arizona map (mid eighties) somewhere, it shows "417" inside an oval, not a shield, on the first proposed leg of the "Agua Fria" which was the northwest quadrant of eventual loop 101.
Quote from: DJStephens on November 09, 2017, 05:03:54 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 27, 2017, 10:00:04 AM
Quote from: Henry on October 27, 2017, 09:48:23 AM
Quote from: KeithE4Phx on October 27, 2017, 12:37:37 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 26, 2017, 11:41:54 PM
Interesting that the name with the Three Rivers; Gila, Salt, and Agua Fria. Fitting name I supposed, personally I would prefer an X0X route number.
It's not a loop, therefore no X0X number. But then again, the 303 isn't a loop, either, and AFAIK was never proposed as one.
Naming it the Tres Rios Freeway is perfectly fine. The Durango Freeway name goes back to the late 1950s, when it was supposed to be the west leg of I-10.
I agree, that's a great name! I would've liked it to be an I-x11 spur, but it probably would've been too long, and so AZ 30 it is.
I sincerely doubt ADOT is ever revisiting the concept of 3d Interstates after all these years. The 101, 202, and even most of US 60 on the Superstition freeway I believe are already Interstate standards I believe. In theory something like the 101 would make a great X17 but ADOT won't apply for the Intestate designation.
What I'm not understanding is why 30? What significance does 30 have other than just some random number? 24 is much of the same thing out in the East Valley as well. Loop or not all the freeways in Phoenix ought to have some sort of continuity in numbering with previously established conventions. I suppose that the semi-sensible numbering convention Arizona had in general is long gone with US 66, 666, and 80 pushed out of the picture but it would still be to have something that would make sense.
BUT...I will say that even though I'm not a huge fan of freeway naming that ADOT generally does a pretty job at giving them something memorable. For the most part Phoenix is probably the only city I can recall all the freeway names off the top of my head.
Why are they (ADOT) so against Interstate designations for their loops? Sure it has been discussed before, here, just asking again. The loops certainly seem to be well constructed, and meet standards. Have an old arizona map (mid eighties) somewhere, it shows "417" inside an oval, not a shield, on the first proposed leg of the "Agua Fria" which was the northwest quadrant of eventual loop 101.
As far as I know, the freeways that are substandard are SR 143, and the southern part of SR 51. Even the southern part of I-17 itself is substandard due to its 11-foot wide lanes.
Was referring to the post '85 sales tax referendum roadways, not earlier highways, but thank you for the clarification.
I-17 is substandard from just South of the I-10 stack to the Durango curve, then iffy going South/East back toward I-10.
Quote from: ATLRedSoxFan on November 12, 2017, 03:09:28 PM
I-17 is substandard from just South of the I-10 stack to the Durango curve, then iffy going South/East back toward I-10.
I am honestly shocked that ADOT hasn't looked into addressing that section. I understand it would be a significant investment, but I remember in the late 90's when they "fixed" I-17 from the stack northward. They rebuilt nearly every overpass that went over I-17 and moved back the walls and possibly the frontage roads. It's still a very old and antiquated design, but functionally it's much better than it was previously. The section from south of the Stack around to the 10/17 split has hardly been touched in 50 years and is horrifically out of place in a freeway network that seems actually very well updated in comparison to other large metro areas.
Quote from: Sonic99 on November 14, 2017, 11:26:28 PM
Quote from: ATLRedSoxFan on November 12, 2017, 03:09:28 PM
I-17 is substandard from just South of the I-10 stack to the Durango curve, then iffy going South/East back toward I-10.
I would suspect that's pending completion of the South Mountain Freeway. That will give an alternate route for HC truck shipments; Quote from: Sonic99 on November 14, 2017, 11:26:28 PM
Quote from: ATLRedSoxFan on November 12, 2017, 03:09:28 PM
I-17 is substandard from just South of the I-10 stack to the Durango curve, then iffy going South/East back toward I-10.
I am honestly shocked that ADOT hasn't looked into addressing that section. I understand it would be a significant investment, but I remember in the late 90's when they "fixed" I-17 from the stack northward. They rebuilt nearly every overpass that went over I-17 and moved back the walls and possibly the frontage roads. It's still a very old and antiquated design, but functionally it's much better than it was previously. The section from south of the Stack around to the 10/17 split has hardly been touched in 50 years and is horrifically out of place in a freeway network that seems actually very well updated in comparison to other large metro areas.
I am honestly shocked that ADOT hasn't looked into addressing that section. I understand it would be a significant investment, but I remember in the late 90's when they "fixed" I-17 from the stack northward. They rebuilt nearly every overpass that went over I-17 and moved back the walls and possibly the frontage roads. It's still a very old and antiquated design, but functionally it's much better than it was previously. The section from south of the Stack around to the 10/17 split has hardly been touched in 50 years and is horrifically out of place in a freeway network that seems actually very well updated in comparison to other large metro areas.
I would suspect that's on the horizon as soon as the South Mountain Freeway is completed. If one shuts down that section of I-17 now, there's not an option for hazardous carrying cargo.
Quote from: ATLRedSoxFan on November 12, 2017, 03:09:28 PM
I-17 is substandard from just South of the I-10 stack to the Durango curve, then iffy going South/East back toward I-10.
For a long time, probably until the early eighties, with the final closure of I-10 approaching on new depressed alignment from the west, I-17 was the only game in town. That is why it appears so old, because it is.
Quote from: Sonic99 on November 14, 2017, 11:26:28 PM
Quote from: ATLRedSoxFan on November 12, 2017, 03:09:28 PM
I-17 is substandard from just South of the I-10 stack to the Durango curve, then iffy going South/East back toward I-10.
I am honestly shocked that ADOT hasn't looked into addressing that section. I understand it would be a significant investment, but I remember in the late 90's when they "fixed" I-17 from the stack northward. They rebuilt nearly every overpass that went over I-17 and moved back the walls and possibly the frontage roads. It's still a very old and antiquated design, but functionally it's much better than it was previously. The section from south of the Stack around to the 10/17 split has hardly been touched in 50 years and is horrifically out of place in a freeway network that seems actually very well updated in comparison to other large metro areas.
Future rebuild due to construction of Interchange with AZ 30 at Durango Curve
Quote from: mapman1071 on November 20, 2017, 11:57:29 AM
Future rebuild due to construction of Interchange with AZ 30 at Durango Curve
Bullshit.
I'm not a huge fan of the name Tres Rios. It feels hacky, a basic geographical observation translated into spanish.
Estrella Mountain Freeway would be more appropriate.
Quote from: roadiejay on November 24, 2017, 06:49:12 AM
I'm not a huge fan of the name Tres Rios. It feels hacky, a basic geographical observation translated into spanish.
Estrella Mountain Freeway would be more appropriate.
That would probably more fitting if I-11 took a cut through the mountains to Casa Grande and Maricopa.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 24, 2017, 07:15:32 AM
Quote from: roadiejay on November 24, 2017, 06:49:12 AM
I'm not a huge fan of the name Tres Rios. It feels hacky, a basic geographical observation translated into spanish.
Estrella Mountain Freeway would be more appropriate.
That would probably more fitting if I-11 took a cut through the mountains to Casa Grande and Maricopa.
I just read up on it and found out about this... Apparently there was a large flood control / wetland preservation project undertaken in the early 2000's near the convergence of those three rivers, completed in 2010 and named Tres Rios. So my hunch that it was a random spanish name drawn out of a hat is bunk.
Between the existing Agua Fria Freeway and the future Hassayampa Freeway (I-11), I can see perhaps they're going for a "river based" naming convention in the west valley, as opposed to the "mountain based" naming convention in the East Valley.