Depending on your age, I'm guessing that an interest in maps brought you to AARoads. In the Paper Age, I collected atlases, highway maps, and a variety of other geography related print. I purchased a Rand McNally atlas every year, mostly for the slight changes and additions. I havent purchased a road atlas for several years, but I own and use detailed state maps when I travel.
I also started using GPS more regularly in the last 18 months, when I purchased a new car. I use GPS to watch for traffic backups, and to get me back to familiar places when I'm in someplace new. Otherwise, I rely on memory (mostly), and print maps for planning purposes.
The rapid changes in technology made me wonder - what map technologies do you use these, and why?
Rand McNally for the big picture. Google Maps for everything else, including accurate distances. Street View for signage, but I never assume the signage has stayed the same.
GPS and knowledge of the area. I pretty much usually know where I am at but at times can get lost.
I usually study paper maps when I don't have an exact need to go anywhere, in much the same way that someone would read a novel or something. This gives me a familiarity with a particular region so that when I do need to go somewhere, I have a basic route in mind.
I typically use Google Maps for last-mile routing (i.e. how do I get from the numbered highways to this specific address) and for detail like interchange layouts in cities. I do check the route in Google just to see what it will recommend, though I'm more apt to stick with my initial routing than I am to take Google's suggestion. Most often, I modify the recommended route to match my preferred route in order to compare the estimated times (which allows me to gauge roughly where we'll be stopping for the night).
Once I get on the road, it's all signs. I rarely use GPS or any sort of mobile map while I'm on the road. The only thing I might need it for is checking traffic conditions, and I'll only bother with that if there's an exact time I need to be somewhere. If I need to refer to a map, I prefer a paper map as it's easier to deal with while driving than unlocking the phone, paging through the home screen to find the map app, enabling the GPS (which I normally disable for both battery and privacy concerns), panning/zooming to the appropriate level, etc.
I don't have any GPS system (my cell's an old-school flip type w/no data/internet plan) so that's out unless I have passenger(s) with me w/SmartPhones.
For unfamiliar destinations: I will use MapQuest, Google or Bing maps to plot directions & get approximate travel times; and print those out.
Even with the above, I still carry paper maps (or atlases) w/me in case I want/need to choose alternate routes. If I'm traveling in unfamiliar states; I will pick up paper maps at my nearest AAA office (I did such for the recent Columbus meet). Paper maps & atlases IMHO allow one to see the big picture both literally & figuratively.
Note: when on the road, I do rely on signs to confirm the listed turns, exits & landmarks (if such signs aren't erroneous). If any signs are erroneous, using the above (maps, websites, etc.) gives me a potential 'heads-up' on such.
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 01, 2017, 03:39:22 AM
I usually study paper maps when I don't have an exact need to go anywhere, in much the same way that someone would read a novel or something.
If you have an atlas in your bathroom for reading material, you might be a roadgeek.
Quote from: kphoger on November 01, 2017, 01:55:01 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 01, 2017, 03:39:22 AM
I usually study paper maps when I don't have an exact need to go anywhere, in much the same way that someone would read a novel or something.
If you have an atlas in your bathroom for reading material, you might be a roadgeek.
Thank you, Jeff Roadworthy.
Quote from: Brandon on November 01, 2017, 02:03:57 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 01, 2017, 01:55:01 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 01, 2017, 03:39:22 AM
I usually study paper maps when I don't have an exact need to go anywhere, in much the same way that someone would read a novel or something.
If you have an atlas in your bathroom for reading material, you might be a roadgeek.
Thank you, Jeff Roadworthy.
PColumbus73, actually. Although I was too lazy to look it up at the time.
Quote from: PColumbus73 on October 17, 2013, 07:04:32 PM
You know you're a roadgeek when-
You make traffic lights out of LEGOs (the rectangular piece for the back and red, yellow, and green squares, with blue for turn signals!)
As a kid you used Mega Bloks (the big ones) as traffic lights
You read the road atlas or the MUTCD when you're in the bathroom
When playing SimCity, you have numbered freeways complete with exit lists
You redesign road signs on video games (like GTA San Andreas)
You buy GTA San Andreas SPECIFICALLY because you want to drive between different cities.
My approach is essentially the same as Scott5411's, with the following additions:
* I have PDF county maps for Kansas and the neighboring states loaded on my phone. Roads being shown on GIS when they are not actually open to public travel, or even roads as such, is not a problem confined to well-known places like Death Valley: I've found "false roads" on Google Maps as close to Wichita as Medicine Lodge, Kansas.
* In the roadtrip car, the phone is always in the console bin, while in the daily driver (normally used only within Wichita and the surrounding area), the phone is in the trunk.
* The GPS logger is always running, though I have location sharing disabled.
* On occasion I will keep a partially folded map in the front passenger footwell, but as a general rule I try not to consult either paper map or GPS except when I am pulled out of traffic.
Where paper maps are concerned, I personally prefer state official maps to AAA maps and Rand McNally atlases. However, I have found that both paper and electronic maps are at best indifferent in terms of accurately conveying quality of driving experience (QODE), because even at high resolution they are too generalized to represent many of the relevant quality dimensions, such as pavement condition, geometric design (or the consistency thereof), etc. In the past I have tried to use photologging for this purpose and found it is excellent, but also quite expensive in terms of time to review, storage space for data, and access for state DOTs that do not host it online.
For local trips, I'll just look at Google Maps and memorize the route. For our church group's Atlanta trip in 2015, I memorized most of the route, but still printed out a set of maps for each of the two vans (just normal minivans). We had two-way radios to keep in contact between the vans. Since there's someone from our church that now lives in the Raleigh area, we were able to stay at their house on the way down and back so we didn't have to do the full trip in one day. Partway through the trip to Raleigh from Auburn, our leader gave me his phone to use the GPS on as a backup. I was impressed with the accuracy of the arrival times. The only specific time I remember is that we arrived in Raleigh from Atlanta only a minute later than it said we would.
This trip was my first use of a GPS for a road trip. Specifically, it was the GPS on Google Maps. While I didn't actually need to use it, there were a few times it came in handy. On the way back to Auburn from Raleigh, our leader decided to go through Washington DC instead of around on US 15 like we did on the way to Raleigh since we'd just miss rush hour. I'm not familiar with the DC area, and I didn't think about asking the family we were staying with if I could use their printer to print out directions. South of DC, we hit a traffic jam, and the guy driving the other van didn't feel comfortable in the heavy traffic. I was able to look at the map and see an upcoming exit so we could get off I-95 and the guy driving could switch with someone else. As we got moving again, I noticed that traffic started moving on I-95 just past one of the next interchanges, so I had us just stay on US 1 to get around the traffic jam. Once we got on I-270, I knew how to get home. Our leader decided to use I-81 instead of US 15 north of Harrisburg, and he went on I-476 in Scranton/Wilkes-Barre to avoid trucks on I-81.
Quote from: Michael on November 01, 2017, 02:54:26 PM
For our church group's Atlanta trip in 2015, I memorized most of the route, but still printed out a set of maps for each of the two vans (just normal minivans). We had two-way radios to keep in contact between the vans.
This is what I do when I lead mission trips to Mexico. In each vehicle's binder, I include a list of planned stops and also maps of the route through major cities. And we communicate by walkie-talkie–which usually ends up being stuff like "hey, did you see that dog back there?". The walkie-talkies also come in handy when passing on two-lane highways: the car in front can radio back to say whether there is oncoming traffic or if there's a gap for passing.
Signs when driving for local directions. Maps in the car in case I get lost. Studying Google maps, street maps, the AAA USA atlas, the DeLorme state atlases ahead of time for trip planning.
My family uses gps but I will probably not use it much when I grow up except when I am near my destination and need an address.
I'll get one thing out of the way immediately: I have never owned a paper map, so I use the internet exclusively. But I'm also a millennial, so that shouldn't surprise anyone.
As a result of driving for Uber/Lyft, I am an avid user of Waze; about 90% of my trips are calculated through that app. Waze's estimation is usuall spot-on, down to a minute or two. This is contrary to Google Maps, which is far too optimistic for my liking (it'll say 17 minutes, and it ends up taking me 23-25 minutes).
Just driving around my area, my phone is always in my windshield dock, with Waze open, so I don't consult roadside signage as often as some people do (I can tell when I need to turn by looking at the map, instead of counting down street numbers or looking for sign salads).
If I'm in the country, I don't use Waze as often. It can be hit-and-miss with rural accuracy, so I'll usually consult roadway signage in these situations.
Quote from: jakeroot on November 02, 2017, 10:50:22 PM
I'll get one thing out of the way immediately: I have never owned a paper map, so I use the internet exclusively.
You...You haven't?
Are you all right? Do you need me to send you one?
Quote from: kphoger on November 01, 2017, 01:55:01 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 01, 2017, 03:39:22 AM
I usually study paper maps when I don't have an exact need to go anywhere, in much the same way that someone would read a novel or something.
If you have an atlas in your bathroom for reading material, you might be a roadgeek.
Maybe just ran out of toilet paper?
Newspapers are a better choice in that case, though...
When driving in unfamiliar areas, I often use a hand-sketched map. I also make single page laminated maps by screenshoting PDF state maps. These are extremely convenient and easy to use.
Generally Rand McNally or my own memory (at last count, had 23 full cross-country trips and at least 50 regional trips as a driving adult; raise that about 25% considering trips taken as a kid). If I'm going to be spending much time in any one area, I'll look up the local AAA office and scarf up as many state/local maps as I can. I've never had to rely on GPS, although I do have a bracket to mount my tablet below the dash; generally use that to record observations about any road changes I may come across.
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 03, 2017, 05:55:46 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 02, 2017, 10:50:22 PM
I'll get one thing out of the way immediately: I have never owned a paper map, so I use the internet exclusively.
You...You haven't?
Are you all right? Do you need me to send you one?
Well, I've had a smart phone longer than I've had a drivers licence. So, I was already using my phone for everything. It was just natural progression.
I actually do have a paper map. But it's a 1970 map of Canada and the Northern US, produced by the Canadian Government Travel Bureau. Apparently, I take US-99 to BC-499 to get to Vancouver from Seattle.
For daily driving I don't need anything really. But I use Waze to see if there are wrecks, traffic jams etc. I also try and beat times... Waze is pretty accurate on times.
I go to work via back way... Avoiding the busy street my office address is on. Drives GPS crazy
I plan long trips with Atlas but i have gotten in the habit of seeing what Waze and Google maps suggest. Also you can see road closures, construction etc. I use GPS as a suggestion, but go my own way.
I find GPS wants to keep you on freeways as much as possible. It's fun to see how long it takes GPS to stop trying to get you to turn around and actually agree with me :[emoji16]
Z981
Rand McNally Road Atlas and Google Maps through my phone.
I spent a great deal of my childhood with maps or atlases spread out across the floor, looking at cities and route numbers that seemed a world away. Today, a lot of that mystique is gone: I've been to or lived in many of the places that seemed impossibly far away as a child. I still love the tactile experience of looking through paper maps–nothing will ever replace that–but I have to admit that I'm not using them much for functional navigation these days.
Since by now I know routes to places that I visit even infrequently, I can navigate to most places just by memory or by relying on mental maps. If I could print them out, my mental maps would look something like subway maps–sometimes making distances seem smaller and routes seem more direct than they actually are. For example, If I were in Denver and needed to come up with an all-Interstate route to Oklahoma City (without looking at a map), I'd know I could either take I-70 East to I-135 South and then I-35–or–I-25 South to I-40 East. I'd know that the I-25 route is a little longer because of that westward curve north of Albuquerque, but I'd tend to think of the routes as being generally comparable. In reality, the I-25 route is over 200 miles longer.
If my time isn't pressed and the cost of a mistake or delay is low, I'd prefer to rely on my knowledge and mental maps. Sometimes when visiting an unfamiliar city (let's call it "Anytown" ), I'll intentionally rely on signage–in part as a test of the completeness and accuracy of the signage, but also to see what the state DOT considers to be the preferred route into Anytown. Likewise, I'll sometimes rely on TO trailblazers to get me back to a numbered route in an unfamiliar area, but all too often, I've been burned by incomplete signage leaving me stranded at a critical intersection where I should have turned off.
When time is an issue, I tend to enter my destination into my phone's GPS, even if I already know the route. For those of you who think of GPSes as being only a crutch for the weak minded: There are too many variables that are beyond even the sharpest person's knowledge. On more than one occasion, I've laughed off what I thought was a stupid route suggestion from Apple Maps only to find myself coming to screeching halt behind an accident, a temporary road closure, or whatever moments later. Sure, there have also been times when the suggestion has been incorrect too, but in either case, the obstacle is something I couldn't have verified unless I got within sight range of it–by which time it would have been too late to alter my course. When using the GPS, I'll look at the route overview first to get a sense of the path it's suggesting and make sure it corroborates with what I know of the area, and I typically have a solid enough base of knowledge to find my way through the area if I have to ignore the GPS unit's directions.
I rely on paper maps for long distance navigation, never using my GPS.
I do use GPS only once I am inside the city for getting to very specific local destinations - usually if I am going to a location in the middle of a big city. I study the route in advance too, though, to make sure I generally know where I'm going, relying on the GPS mainly to remind me what turns I need to make.
This isn't always foolproof - last week I was driving in Tijuana and had Google try to navigate me to the Ready Lanes to get back across the border, but it navigated me along a route that would have required me to change lanes across a jersey barrier. Because I had studied the routing in advance, I was able to re-drive around the loop and access the lanes from the correct intersection further downstream. See: https://goo.gl/maps/DkhVPyhhSvM2, the Goog's recommended routing doesn't work - you have to go to the second roundabout further south (recommended as the alternate 17 minute/6.2 km route), and I only knew that from studying in advance.
So you need a mix - the GPS helped me get to the right general area, but it was my own advance studying that actually got me there without being too lost.
Quote from: jwolfer on November 04, 2017, 12:01:10 AM
Also you can see road closures, construction etc.
Yep, I'm learning the value of this.
It isn't foolproof, of course. For one thing, if Google doesn't know a road is closed, then it won't show that it's closed. And for another thing, it doesn't always do well when one half of a divided highway is closed but the other roadway carries both directions of traffic; sometimes, it will refuse to route you along one direction of travel, simply because that roadway has been reported as closed. All of that notwithstanding, I have taken to looking at Google Maps
again a few days before leaving on a trip, seeing what construction projects and closures are marked along the way, and then looking up details for each one on the state DOT website. Then, based on the details, I decide whether to stick with my original plan or plot a different route.
I've never owned a paper map, and haven't looked at one since starting to drive (at age 33, long story), but I've studied free maps, like the ones the phone books (used to?) include for fun before that. These days I do the same on Google sometimes.
As to what I rely on, for anything I drive regularly, I drive from memory. I check Google or my phone ahead of time for traffic issues and call 511 while driving where there are areas congestion can be expected. If I end up off of a known route due to congestion, I try to follow relatively major routes in the general direction I need to be going, and stop and look at the phone to plan out my route from wherever I am to wherever I'll be joining my regular route.
If the drive is short and/or simple, I'll just plan it out by looking at Google ahead of time and following the pre-planned route. Otherwise, I *will* use my phone as GPS during the drive, though I'll ignore it until I'm about to leave the familiar area / freeway, though sometimes ignoring the GPS too long has gotten me into trouble. On rare occasion I will print out a Google directions sheet where the route is simple enough that I may or may not need to glance at it a few times, but complicated enough that I think I may get lost without aid.
I use paper maps pretty exclusively. I don't own a proper GPS, but will occasionally look at my phone to confirm my route. Usually when I travel, I just use a large size RouteMaster (née MapArt) truckers atlas. It's more or less the Canadian equivalent to a Rand McNally style truckers atlas. I like these maps a lot. Their coverage is a little bit more suited to the needs of a Canadian traveler than the US equivalent. (Much better coverage in Canada, and an emphasis on the states that the average Canadian is most likely to spend some of the winter in).
When visiting the US, I never buy data for my phone, so unless I pull off somewhere that has WiFi, phone GPS is not an option. Typically when I have a reservation to a hotel, or need to get to a specific destination, I'll make hand written notes of how to navigate there from the main highway before I leave the hotel in the morning. I can usually get to within the last mile or so of a destination without needing much navigational aid.
As said by others above, I do miss the tactile experience of a paper map collection. I have many memories of flipping through road atlases in my younger days. I remember checking bookstores and convenience stores pretty religiously looking for latest editions -- when MapArt's 1999 Toronto and Area Deluxe edition road atlas came out, it pretty much blew my teenage mind. Nowadays though, I almost never find the time to peruse those old paper maps. The internet really has made them pretty irrelevant.
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on November 06, 2017, 02:25:33 PM
When visiting the US, I never buy data for my phone, so unless I pull off somewhere that has WiFi, phone GPS is not an option
You can download maps for later offline use. With Google the region you can get is pretty limited, but HERE WeGo for example lets you download whole states and countries.
I use signs for actual navigation, for the most part. I still use paper maps for pre-trip planning (although I have been cheating a little more with Google maps than I used to, lol).
My GPS in my car really is only for use as a digital speedometer and to keep track of where I have been-I download the track info to my computer via Garmin Basecamp.
Rant ahead...
I could see using a paper map to plan out an extremely long journey, but, once you get to the city in question, (as far as I'm concerned) they are completely worthless. Mostly because, I'm not going to a city to do fuck-all. I'm going somewhere. That "somewhere" is most-often an address. Paper maps work great for getting someone from generic area to generic area, but they are completely worthless for finding local businesses and locating exact street addresses.
For example, a few weeks ago, I was in Portland. I know how to get to Portland without using a phone. It's a straight shot down the five. I don't need a paper map to get there. But, once I got to Portland, I needed to visit a T-Mobile store. Rand-McNally isn't going to help me find a T-Mobile store. And therein lies my problem with paper maps. They don't help me find exactly where I need to go. Should I be able to get around by assessing house and street numbers? Of course, and I can do that just fine. But I can't get the specific address without the internet, or at least Google Maps. Why anyone would take that address, and then go to a paper map and route things out, is beyond my 21-year old brain's comprehension abilities.
I'm not here to shit all over paper maps. I get why they were helpful even 10 years ago. But now, I just don't see where they fit in. Even long-distance planning is stupid easy with any computer. Planning a route out on Google Maps, you can send it to your phone, where you can download the route for offline use. No excuse for not having service.
The only time I could see using a paper map would be if I was trying to find things to do, and my local hotel had a tourist-map. Those things are actually pretty helpful. The hotel where I work has them, and it really helps out a lot of the guests. But even they (the guests) just take the map, and plug in the relevant location into their phone. The only people who use them to navigate are either international visitors without data plans, or old people without smart phones.
Paper maps will never go away. Digital maps are simply digital versions of paper maps, and as long as one is capable of failure, the backup will always have a place. But, seeing as the failure rate of digital maps is generally pretty low (Apple Maps is way better than it used to be, so don't bring that up), the usage of paper maps will continue to decline.
Quote from: jakeroot on November 06, 2017, 07:50:08 PMI could see using a paper map to plan out an extremely long journey, but, once you get to the city in question, (as far as I'm concerned) they are completely worthless. Mostly because, I'm not going to a city to do fuck-all. I'm going somewhere. That "somewhere" is most-often an address. Paper maps work great for getting someone from generic area to generic area, but they are completely worthless for finding local businesses and locating exact street addresses.
Navigation inside cities is not really the use case for single-sheet state maps. Before GPS and online mapping became both widespread and convenient, people would get hold of city street maps for large cities where they preferred not to rely on state map insets or their own orienteering skills. Map cognoscenti were also quite good at sniffing out which brands of maps had information that was useful for localization, such as block numbers.
Quote from: jakeroot on November 06, 2017, 07:50:08 PMFor example, a few weeks ago, I was in Portland. I know how to get to Portland without using a phone. It's a straight shot down the five. I don't need a paper map to get there. But, once I got to Portland, I needed to visit a T-Mobile store. Rand-McNally isn't going to help me find a T-Mobile store. And therein lies my problem with paper maps. They don't help me find exactly where I need to go. Should I be able to get around by assessing house and street numbers? Of course, and I can do that just fine. But I can't get the specific address without the internet, or at least Google Maps. Why anyone would take that address, and then go to a paper map and route things out, is beyond my 21-year old brain's comprehension abilities.
I-5 is one route and one route number without TOTSOs between Seattle and Portland. Paper maps are useful when one chooses to go off-Interstate, or to follow an itinerary across multiple routes, and wants easy confirmation of routing without having to fiddle with a phone behind the wheel.
The old-school approach to finding a T-Mobile store in Portland would be to look up the address in a phone book and then find it on a paper city map. Yes, Google Maps on a phone combines these two searches into one and makes it much easier to find the closest, but the dead-tree method is still useful and relevant when you do not have access to mobile data.
Quote from: jakeroot on November 06, 2017, 07:50:08 PMI'm not here to shit all over paper maps. I get why they were helpful even 10 years ago. But now, I just don't see where they fit in. Even long-distance planning is stupid easy with any computer. Planning a route out on Google Maps, you can send it to your phone, where you can download the route for offline use. No excuse for not having service.
Some of us travel without computers and without every mile of a 4,000-mile route planned in advance. And Google Maps can be tricky to use in certain route planning scenarios, e.g. where it assumes turns that are perfectly legal are forbidden, or shows a construction project in progress and refuses to allow routings down roads that the user knows with certainty are still open. The ability to play with itinerary routing and check both distance and time is a valuable feature of Google Maps, but has no mobile implementation.
Quote from: jakeroot on November 06, 2017, 07:50:08 PMThe only time I could see using a paper map would be if I was trying to find things to do, and my local hotel had a tourist-map. Those things are actually pretty helpful. The hotel where I work has them, and it really helps out a lot of the guests. But even they (the guests) just take the map, and plug in the relevant location into their phone. The only people who use them to navigate are either international visitors without data plans, or old people without smart phones.
Hi. I have a smartphone with a data plan, and I am not an old person. I actually use those maps for navigation. Sometimes I take multiple copies: one to hold in sweaty fingers, and another to keep for the trip file. I have had enough experience with misleading cartography (both paper and digital) not to repose all of my eggs in one basket, and a paper map can never embarrass me by running out of juice.
Paper Maps don't lose signal in remote areas - or lose signal because the provider hasn't any coverage in an area.
Quote from: jakeroot on November 06, 2017, 07:50:08 PM
Rant ahead...
I could see using a paper map to plan out an extremely long journey, but, once you get to the city in question, (as far as I'm concerned) they are completely worthless. Mostly because, I'm not going to a city to do fuck-all. I'm going somewhere. That "somewhere" is most-often an address. Paper maps work great for getting someone from generic area to generic area, but they are completely worthless for finding local businesses and locating exact street addresses.
For example, a few weeks ago, I was in Portland. I know how to get to Portland without using a phone. It's a straight shot down the five. I don't need a paper map to get there. But, once I got to Portland, I needed to visit a T-Mobile store. Rand-McNally isn't going to help me find a T-Mobile store. And therein lies my problem with paper maps. They don't help me find exactly where I need to go. Should I be able to get around by assessing house and street numbers? Of course, and I can do that just fine. But I can't get the specific address without the internet, or at least Google Maps. Why anyone would take that address, and then go to a paper map and route things out, is beyond my 21-year old brain's comprehension abilities.
I'm not here to shit all over paper maps. I get why they were helpful even 10 years ago. But now, I just don't see where they fit in. Even long-distance planning is stupid easy with any computer. Planning a route out on Google Maps, you can send it to your phone, where you can download the route for offline use. No excuse for not having service.
The only time I could see using a paper map would be if I was trying to find things to do, and my local hotel had a tourist-map. Those things are actually pretty helpful. The hotel where I work has them, and it really helps out a lot of the guests. But even they (the guests) just take the map, and plug in the relevant location into their phone. The only people who use them to navigate are either international visitors without data plans, or old people without smart phones.
Paper maps will never go away. Digital maps are simply digital versions of paper maps, and as long as one is capable of failure, the backup will always have a place. But, seeing as the failure rate of digital maps is generally pretty low (Apple Maps is way better than it used to be, so don't bring that up), the usage of paper maps will continue to decline.
They are good when you in a rural area without cell service and need to get to a place, you can check your phone when you get service.
Got it, guys. Paper Maps win when there's no data. That's pretty obvious.
Quote from: J N Winkler on November 06, 2017, 08:24:32 PM
Navigation inside cities is not really the use case for single-sheet state maps. Before GPS and online mapping became both widespread and convenient, people would get hold of city street maps for large cities where they preferred not to rely on state map insets or their own orienteering skills. Map cognoscenti were also quite good at sniffing out which brands of maps had information that was useful for localization, such as block numbers.
So, using digital maps makes more sense in cities then, yes?
Quote from: J N Winkler on November 06, 2017, 08:24:32 PM
I-5 is one route and one route number without TOTSOs between Seattle and Portland. Paper maps are useful when one chooses to go off-Interstate, or to follow an itinerary across multiple routes, and wants easy confirmation of routing without having to fiddle with a phone behind the wheel.
You still have to fiddle with a paper map. Though I will concede that it's easier to screw around with your route with a paper map, assuming you don't have data. But I seldom do that, so it's not a scenario that occurred to me as I wrote my above comment.
Quote from: J N Winkler on November 06, 2017, 08:24:32 PM
The old-school approach to finding a T-Mobile store in Portland would be to look up the address in a phone book and then find it on a paper city map. Yes, Google Maps on a phone combines these two searches into one and makes it much easier to find the closest, but the dead-tree method is still useful and relevant when you do not have access to mobile data.
Assuming I'm in a city looking for a T-Mobile store, I have never been to a city that doesn't have at least some mobile data coverage. Yes, the dead-tree method is still relevant if you don't have mobile data. But that's not a scenario I, nor many people, face.
Quote from: J N Winkler on November 06, 2017, 08:24:32 PM
Some of us travel without computers and without every mile of a 4,000-mile route planned in advance. And Google Maps can be tricky to use in certain route planning scenarios, e.g. where it assumes turns that are perfectly legal are forbidden, or shows a construction project in progress and refuses to allow routings down roads that the user knows with certainty are still open. The ability to play with itinerary routing and check both distance and time is a valuable feature of Google Maps, but has no mobile implementation.
Google Maps isn't perfect. But are you trying to suggest that a map produced nine months before your cross-country holiday is somehow more likely to show up-to-date information about a route? Many things are played by-ear, even with paper maps. Would a paper map come in handy, if Google tries to get you to cross a bridge that's out? Yes, assuming you don't have data. And that's why I'm not completely against paper maps. But that scenario is, again, very uncommon. Having a paper map as backup is genius. You'd be stupid not have one. But, the chances that I would use it over a phone, under most circumstances, is unlikely.
Quote from: J N Winkler on November 06, 2017, 08:24:32 PM
Hi. I have a smartphone with a data plan, and I am not an old person. I actually use those maps for navigation. Sometimes I take multiple copies: one to hold in sweaty fingers, and another to keep for the trip file. I have had enough experience with misleading cartography (both paper and digital) not to repose all of my eggs in one basket, and a paper map can never embarrass me by running out of juice.
Fair enough. You are definitely an anomaly, though (no offence!)
Quote from: jakeroot on November 06, 2017, 08:50:34 PM
Got it, guys.
No you didn't. Saying you don't like paper map on this board is a bigger offense than saying you drive 30 mph on a highway in left lane without a spare. Acknowledge you wrongdoing, order 3 atlases, cancel your data plan - and your inner roadgeek will see the headlights of oncoming car!
Quote from: jakeroot on November 06, 2017, 07:50:08 PM
But, once I got to Portland, I needed to visit a T-Mobile store. Rand-McNally isn't going to help me find a T-Mobile store. And therein lies my problem with paper maps. They don't help me find exactly where I need to go.
I'd assert that roadgeeks don't turn to paper maps to give them clear instructions on how to get from A to B...because they're not looking for clear instructions. Roadgeeks want to look at the larger system and understand how it works. Undoubtedly, Google Maps or Waze could shave off a few minutes by finding the most direct route with the least traffic. But by looking at a huge map that covers an entire coffee table, you might discover that an alternative route traces the old alignment of a US route–and you find that interesting. Maybe another route parallels a large rail yard and you like trains. Or another route follows gentle curves along a river shore which you find scenic.
To criticize a roadgeek for using paper maps would be like ripping Techmoan for making a half-hour video documenting his struggle to use a thirty year old machine that plays movies from a vinyl disc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCWLaAwr3sM) because he could have downloaded movies from iTunes instead. Yes, that may be true, but his goal wasn't to view a movie as quickly and economically as possible.
I'm a tech savvy millennial who's had an iPhone for a decade and uses a Mac to make a living. And if I'm trying to get to a specific point as quickly as possible, yes, I'll use Apple Maps CarPlayed through my car's touchscreen. But I still enjoy paper maps, too, and when I pull one out, it's not because I'm trying to get from A to B as quickly and economically as possible.
^^
I'm not trying to rip people for using paper maps as a fun tool to add to your cross-country drive. Certainly, they can make a trip more enjoyable, if you're the roadgeek-type. I was attempting to rip into those who find mobile phones with built-in GPS's somehow inferior to the paper map. Which they can be, when there's no data. But for the most part, they're by miles the best tool for getting from A to B. The paper map does not compare when traveling from known-point A to known-point B.
My rant above was in response to the vast number of replies that indicated a preference for paper maps when planning journeys. This surprised me, because for the most part, you can plan out a trip from the get-go all on your computer. Is it as fun? Probably not. But that's what sets us roadgeeks apart from the general public.
Sorry if I offended anyone here. I forget that we're a special breed! :D
Quote from: jakeroot on November 06, 2017, 08:50:34 PMGot it, guys. Paper Maps win when there's no data. That's pretty obvious.
They are also more convenient for certain types of information lookup that would result in multiple episodes of zooming in and out with a digital map. Moreover, a well-designed paper map better distinguishes roads according to cross-section, surface type, maintenance jurisdiction, and traffic importance. ("Well-designed" is an important caveat, though. I personally prefer official state maps to Rand McNally/AAA cartography since the scales tend to be larger and the gradation of detail to be better, even if the rendering is a bit more hard-edged, and the choice of detail shown often reflects local knowledge of what types of information are most advantageous to the traveller. Rand McNally/AAA are the Muzak of American highway cartography.)
Here's an example:
Near Severy, Kansas (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.6313743,-96.2460786,14.25z)
Both US 400 and K-99 are shown using yellow lines, while all other roads are shown using white lines regardless of surface type. On the Kansas official state map, US 400 is shown as a red line ("Principal Highway"), while K-99 on either side of the US 400 dogleg overlap is shown as a black line ("Other Highway"). Of the county section line roads, only a few are shown, including two paved roads (thin black) indicating that Severy has paved connections to both K-99 and US 400. Only the important gravel roads are shown, in thin brown.
In this case, the additional information you receive from the paper map is that US 400 (the red line) is considered a principal through route and so is more likely to have full paved shoulders and alignment that supports comfortable cruising at a 65 limit.
With Google Maps you do gain the ability to sample using StreetView, but this is at spots only. For comprehensive evaluation across multiple sections that reflect different standards of improvement (and thus the reality that state DOTs upgrade their networks, if they have the funds for it, just a few miles at a time), you need photologging.
Quote from: jakeroot on November 06, 2017, 08:50:34 PMSo, using digital maps makes more sense in cities then, yes?
If data is accessible and the device has juice--yes.
Quote from: jakeroot on November 06, 2017, 08:50:34 PMQuote from: J N Winkler on November 06, 2017, 08:24:32 PM
I-5 is one route and one route number without TOTSOs between Seattle and Portland. Paper maps are useful when one chooses to go off-Interstate, or to follow an itinerary across multiple routes, and wants easy confirmation of routing without having to fiddle with a phone behind the wheel.
You still have to fiddle with a paper map. Though I will concede that it's easier to screw around with your route with a paper map, assuming you don't have data. But I seldom do that, so it's not a scenario that occurred to me as I wrote my above comment.
It is not uncommon to fold a paper map only partially so that the area of interest is on top, and set it down on the front passenger seat. This saves pulling out the phone, unlocking it, loading the digital map, etc. A dedicated GPS unit could achieve much the same, but not everyone wants to bother with one.
Quote from: jakeroot on November 06, 2017, 08:50:34 PMGoogle Maps isn't perfect. But are you trying to suggest that a map produced nine months before your cross-country holiday is somehow more likely to show up-to-date information about a route?
A paper map would not be up to the minute, but as a general rule paper maps are also less likely to show false roads.
Quote from: briantroutman on November 06, 2017, 09:25:06 PMI'd assert that roadgeeks don't turn to paper maps to give them clear instructions on how to get from A to B...because they're not looking for clear instructions. Roadgeeks want to look at the larger system and understand how it works. Undoubtedly, Google Maps or Waze could shave off a few minutes by finding the most direct route with the least traffic. But by looking at a huge map that covers an entire coffee table, you might discover that an alternative route traces the old alignment of a US route–and you find that interesting. Maybe another route parallels a large rail yard and you like trains. Or another route follows gentle curves along a river shore which you find scenic.
This paragraph actually had me doing the "sometimes" hand gesture. Yes, roadgeeks like a view of the total system. But in some of the specific examples mentioned, digital mapping can actually be better: old alignments are conveniently labelled "Old . . .," while StreetView imagery affords the ability to preview railyard views and determine which river-following highways are scenic and which ones are merely a pain to drive.
Ultimately, keeping an open mind about using paper versus digital maps instead of habitually using one or the other is about choices. Maps are not reality: they are constructed objects that reflect a selection of information to present. By not tying ourselves to a particular series of maps, or even a broad type of map, we maintain the ability to reach out and access what is of interest to us in a given situation.
The real weirdos here are not roadgeeks using paper maps in the age of Google Maps. They are the ones using pre-1960 USGS 7.5-minute quadrangles, painstakingly downloaded in PDF format, to plan a cross-country trip. But you know what? That's all right!
Quote from: jakeroot on November 06, 2017, 10:55:32 PM
Sorry if I offended anyone here. I forget that we're a special breed! :D
You just don't realize how useful paper maps can be even on the road!
For example, this summer I was driving a long east-west trip. Sun was really hot, and my legs in black jeans were feeling the heat. But I had a solution! I put paper map on my knees (happened to be map of the other state, but who cares) - and my legs were comfortable for the rest of the trip...
Paper map can also serve as a tablecloth, curtain, clean pad if you need to get under the car... and many other great reasons to have a few in a car.
Cm'on, man, get a few!
Quote from: jakeroot on November 06, 2017, 07:50:08 PM
Rant ahead...
I could see using a paper map to plan out an extremely long journey, but, once you get to the city in question, (as far as I'm concerned) they are completely worthless. Mostly because, I'm not going to a city to do fuck-all. I'm going somewhere. That "somewhere" is most-often an address. Paper maps work great for getting someone from generic area to generic area, but they are completely worthless for finding local businesses and locating exact street addresses.
For example, a few weeks ago, I was in Portland. I know how to get to Portland without using a phone. It's a straight shot down the five. I don't need a paper map to get there. But, once I got to Portland, I needed to visit a T-Mobile store. Rand-McNally isn't going to help me find a T-Mobile store. And therein lies my problem with paper maps. They don't help me find exactly where I need to go. Should I be able to get around by assessing house and street numbers? Of course, and I can do that just fine. But I can't get the specific address without the internet, or at least Google Maps. Why anyone would take that address, and then go to a paper map and route things out, is beyond my 21-year old brain's comprehension abilities.
I'm not here to shit all over paper maps. I get why they were helpful even 10 years ago. But now, I just don't see where they fit in. Even long-distance planning is stupid easy with any computer. Planning a route out on Google Maps, you can send it to your phone, where you can download the route for offline use. No excuse for not having service.
The only time I could see using a paper map would be if I was trying to find things to do, and my local hotel had a tourist-map. Those things are actually pretty helpful. The hotel where I work has them, and it really helps out a lot of the guests. But even they (the guests) just take the map, and plug in the relevant location into their phone. The only people who use them to navigate are either international visitors without data plans, or old people without smart phones.
Paper maps will never go away. Digital maps are simply digital versions of paper maps, and as long as one is capable of failure, the backup will always have a place. But, seeing as the failure rate of digital maps is generally pretty low (Apple Maps is way better than it used to be, so don't bring that up), the usage of paper maps will continue to decline.
There are paper maps that indicate house numbers at selected cross streets. You could also look up the address of your destination before you leave and what the cross street is. Before we had the internet, we'd call the person or business and ask, or get the address from the phone book.
Quote from: kkt on November 07, 2017, 10:31:58 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 06, 2017, 07:50:08 PM
Rant ahead...
I could see using a paper map to plan out an extremely long journey, but, once you get to the city in question, (as far as I'm concerned) they are completely worthless. Mostly because, I'm not going to a city to do fuck-all. I'm going somewhere. That "somewhere" is most-often an address. Paper maps work great for getting someone from generic area to generic area, but they are completely worthless for finding local businesses and locating exact street addresses.
For example, a few weeks ago, I was in Portland. I know how to get to Portland without using a phone. It's a straight shot down the five. I don't need a paper map to get there. But, once I got to Portland, I needed to visit a T-Mobile store. Rand-McNally isn't going to help me find a T-Mobile store. And therein lies my problem with paper maps. They don't help me find exactly where I need to go. Should I be able to get around by assessing house and street numbers? Of course, and I can do that just fine. But I can't get the specific address without the internet, or at least Google Maps. Why anyone would take that address, and then go to a paper map and route things out, is beyond my 21-year old brain's comprehension abilities.
I'm not here to shit all over paper maps. I get why they were helpful even 10 years ago. But now, I just don't see where they fit in. Even long-distance planning is stupid easy with any computer. Planning a route out on Google Maps, you can send it to your phone, where you can download the route for offline use. No excuse for not having service.
The only time I could see using a paper map would be if I was trying to find things to do, and my local hotel had a tourist-map. Those things are actually pretty helpful. The hotel where I work has them, and it really helps out a lot of the guests. But even they (the guests) just take the map, and plug in the relevant location into their phone. The only people who use them to navigate are either international visitors without data plans, or old people without smart phones.
Paper maps will never go away. Digital maps are simply digital versions of paper maps, and as long as one is capable of failure, the backup will always have a place. But, seeing as the failure rate of digital maps is generally pretty low (Apple Maps is way better than it used to be, so don't bring that up), the usage of paper maps will continue to decline.
There are paper maps that indicate house numbers at selected cross streets. You could also look up the address of your destination before you leave and what the cross street is. Before we had the internet, we'd call the person or business and ask, or get the address from the phone book.
Also, people had to pay their bills by check in the mail, buy newspapers to get news, ride on horseback and bake their own bread..
Those are niche activities these day.. And I don't see a reason to treat paper maps and thick phone books any different than the list above. That had been the way to do it. Past perfect.
Quote from: kalvado on November 07, 2017, 10:39:51 AMAlso, people had to pay their bills by check in the mail, buy newspapers to get news, ride on horseback and bake their own bread..
Those are niche activities these day.. And I don't see a reason to treat paper maps and thick phone books any different than the list above. That had been the way to do it. Past perfect.
Whoa there! I can see riding horseback & baking one's own bread as being niche activities for today; but to say that paying bills via mailing a check and/or reading a newspaper are niche activities
today is a tad premature and out of line (IMHO).
If one lives in an apartment; many landlords/rental agencies
still require that their rents be paid by check and mailed to a P.O. box. And, no, I'm not referring to a hick-town out in the middle of nowhere. That's just one example but there are probably others.
Last time I checked; despite having such available on-line, newspapers are still around and being purchased. Similar to a paper map; a newspaper allows one to see several articles
at-once without scrolling through a screen.
Quote from: jakeroot on November 06, 2017, 08:50:34 PM
Got it, guys. Paper Maps win when there's no data. That's pretty obvious.
Again, you can download maps ahead of time. Paper maps are only needed if there is no *GPS Signal*. And that seems to happen a lot less often than it used to. I've lost signal in the mountains sometimes, but very rarely. And even then, you can still browse these maps, they just don't know your location... just like paper maps
All 3, plus gut feeling.
You can download the maps you expect to need, but end up somewhere unexpected -- ooh! that road looks interesting! -- it's quicker to wander off your GPS map and wish you'd brought a regional paper map instead.
Paper maps also make nice time capsules and souvenirs.
Of course if GPS works for you, great.
Quote from: J N Winkler on November 06, 2017, 11:27:54 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 06, 2017, 08:50:34 PMGot it, guys. Paper Maps win when there's no data. That's pretty obvious.
They are also more convenient for certain types of information lookup that would result in multiple episodes of zooming in and out with a digital map. Moreover, a well-designed paper map better distinguishes roads according to cross-section, surface type, maintenance jurisdiction, and traffic importance. ("Well-designed" is an important caveat, though. I personally prefer official state maps to Rand McNally/AAA cartography since the scales tend to be larger and the gradation of detail to be better, even if the rendering is a bit more hard-edged, and the choice of detail shown often reflects local knowledge of what types of information are most advantageous to the traveller. Rand McNally/AAA are the Muzak of American highway cartography.)
Here's an example:
Near Severy, Kansas (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.6313743,-96.2460786,14.25z)
Both US 400 and K-99 are shown using yellow lines, while all other roads are shown using white lines regardless of surface type. On the Kansas official state map, US 400 is shown as a red line ("Principal Highway"), while K-99 on either side of the US 400 dogleg overlap is shown as a black line ("Other Highway"). Of the county section line roads, only a few are shown, including two paved roads (thin black) indicating that Severy has paved connections to both K-99 and US 400. Only the important gravel roads are shown, in thin brown.
In this case, the additional information you receive from the paper map is that US 400 (the red line) is considered a principal through route and so is more likely to have full paved shoulders and alignment that supports comfortable cruising at a 65 limit.
Oh yes, ten times over. Do you want to evaluate the pros and cons of route alternatives between two points hundreds of miles apart? A paper atlas lets you know what roads through there are major corridors, which ones are multi-lane highways, how big the towns are that you have to drive through along the way, what points of interest you might see along the way, how easy it is to avoid tolls, etc, etc, etc. Using the internet for all that requires a lot of zooming in and out and even searching the web; and then you're left (or at least I am) feeling like you still don't have a good overall understanding of the region.
I can think of so many examples of wanting to know an alternate route on the fly, when a paper atlas fit the bill. Maybe the most memorable for me are from west Texas. One of those was wanting to avoid driving through Odessa on my way south from Seminole to Fort Stockton. Pop open the Rand McNally, and it was easy: TX-158 to Goldsmith, then south on FM-866. On Google Maps, FM-866 is just a white line and doesn't stand out in any way, so I wouldn't necessarily trust it. But because it was in RMN, I was confident it was a good road, and that it was. That was back in the 90s, though, so cell phone internet wasn't a thing.
Just this past summer, my family and I ended up with an overheated car on the side of the road in 100° weather with near-zero cell coverage and certainly no data coverage. We needed to find a good mechanic that was both not too far away from our location and also somewhat along the way back towards home. Not only could I not use my cell phone because it was (a) almost dead and (b) worthless without coverage, but Google Maps simply wouldn't have given me the same overall view of my general area, let alone allowed me to easily calculate in my head how far away different towns were. Once we actually arrived to the town I decided upon, we pulled over and did internet searching (having charged our phones along the way) for a hotel and a mechanic. But it was paper that got us that far.
Google Maps (and to a lesser extent these days, paper) when planning a trip. This way I can visualize the route and compare with my own notes what might be worthy of a stop along the way to wherever I'm going.
GPS, handwritten notes, and Google Map directions during the trip, in that order of importance. The GPS guides me along the way, and also recalculates when I decide to stray off course. I turned the voice thingy off on it because of how often I decide to stray off the "approved" route. I joke that I'm one of a small number of people who tells the GPS where I'm going and lets the machine figure it out from there. Notes are used as sort of a last-minute deviation in the trip; I often will key the address into my GPS. I will occasionally keep a set of directions on hand, but it's easier following a GPS screen than a piece of paper, especially when I travel at night.
I think signs for me play a lesser part, mainly just serving as confirmation that I'm on the right track...er, road.
Ok OK, I have to admit that I have, on occasion, once I reach my destination, that I have looked up a resturant on Google and plugged in its address into my GPS. Not often, but I have done it- especially when I didn't see the type of resturant that I had a taste for on the way in.
I don't stay away from GPS navigation for a big trip because of any roadgeek morality that says I that I can't, but I have always had this built in GPS in my head that once I have looked over the general route I want to take on a map I usually have no problems getting to where I need to be by just following the signs. My wife and my little brother can both attest to that.
Now, once I get to point B, if its a place that I really am not familiar with, then I will use the GPS to navigate to point C if I need to.
I certainly use a sat-nav (built into the two cars we use most on trips) to guide me to addresses in unfamiliar places. I'd rather have it guiding me than rely on my wife to tell me where to turn using a paper map because she's not good with directions and frequently misses turns. I do not normally have the sat-nav active on long highway drives because it won't help much and I don't want it interrupting the music or whatever. I'll also regularly use it to find a gas station or restaurant. While I have a nice app called iExit that lists what's available at Interstate exits, I can't very well use that while I'm driving.
Signs are still important because a sat-nav won't always know about road reconfigurations due to construction or similar. Sat-navs also generally won't guide you into restricted lanes that might be useful (HOV being the obvious example).
For planning a trip, usually a combination of paper maps from AAA and Google Maps. Google Maps is so useful for comparing alternate routes for time estimates and the like, but I still like paper for the big picture. Unless we're going someplace familiar or somewhere for which I already have a map, I'll usually go to AAA to pick up some maps and the TourBooks. I don't use the TourBooks as often as I may have 20 years ago for finding lodging, but sometimes we get a good discovery through them. Last month an ad in the TourBook led me to Gervasi Vineyard in Canton. Turned out to be a great place to stay and I never would have found it otherwise. But in general, I'll use the TourBook more for finding tourism sights of interest and maybe restaurants.
Paper maps are also useful beyond the sat-nav's coverage (our most recent trip to Nova Scotia being a good example–the map ended just east of Yarmouth and near Church Point).
I generally try to plan out where I'm going before I leave. That generally occurs with a combination of Google Maps and paper state-issued maps if I'm going to a new area. Google Maps gives me ideas on distance and time, and the paper maps let me better explore what's in the area.
In the car, I have a Garmin Nuvi GPS and state-issued paper maps for my home state (WV) and each of the surrounding states (PA, MD, VA, KY, OH) in the glovebox. I also keep a Rand McNally atlas and a WV DeLorme atlas in the back. If I'm going somewhere in a backwoods area in another state, I'll frequently bring along DeLorme atlases for those states. I'll also bring along National Forest or National Park maps as appropriate.
I use the GPS for navigating within cities/urban areas. For longer distances, I'll generally pull out a paper map to see where I am, although I'll sometimes also pull up my destination on the Garmin to get an idea on ETA and remaining distances.
I geocache and also keep my Garmin loaded with current POI files containing geocaches for the areas I'm traveling. I'll use it pull up geocaches nearby and will use it to navigate to geocaches.
Everyone here driving around...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fc8.alamy.com%2Fcomp%2FA7PEFJ%2Fyoung-man-reading-a-map-while-driving-A7PEFJ.jpg&hash=24c3eb0601237045653e2c073a43ab997082289f)
Quote from: jakeroot on November 16, 2017, 12:24:19 AM
Everyone here driving around...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fc8.alamy.com%2Fcomp%2FA7PEFJ%2Fyoung-man-reading-a-map-while-driving-A7PEFJ.jpg&hash=24c3eb0601237045653e2c073a43ab997082289f)
No way. Remember, one hand should work stickshift.
Quote from: kalvado on November 16, 2017, 04:13:11 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 16, 2017, 12:24:19 AM
Everyone here driving around...
http://c8.alamy.com/comp/A7PEFJ/young-man-reading-a-map-while-driving-A7PEFJ.jpg
No way. Remember, one hand should work stickshift.
Luckily I have three hands so that's no problem.
Quote from: jakeroot on November 16, 2017, 10:06:28 AM
Quote from: kalvado on November 16, 2017, 04:13:11 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 16, 2017, 12:24:19 AM
Everyone here driving around...
http://c8.alamy.com/comp/A7PEFJ/young-man-reading-a-map-while-driving-A7PEFJ.jpg
No way. Remember, one hand should work stickshift.
Luckily I have three hands so that's no problem.
Just 3? So how do you hold your coffee??
Quote from: kalvado on November 16, 2017, 11:36:01 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 16, 2017, 10:06:28 AM
Quote from: kalvado on November 16, 2017, 04:13:11 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 16, 2017, 12:24:19 AM
Everyone here driving around...
http://c8.alamy.com/comp/A7PEFJ/young-man-reading-a-map-while-driving-A7PEFJ.jpg
No way. Remember, one hand should work stickshift.
Luckily I have three hands so that's no problem.
Just 3? So how do you hold your coffee??
And your phone to make sure that map is correct?
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 16, 2017, 11:44:10 AM
Quote from: kalvado on November 16, 2017, 11:36:01 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 16, 2017, 10:06:28 AM
Quote from: kalvado on November 16, 2017, 04:13:11 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 16, 2017, 12:24:19 AM
Everyone here driving around...
http://c8.alamy.com/comp/A7PEFJ/young-man-reading-a-map-while-driving-A7PEFJ.jpg
No way. Remember, one hand should work stickshift.
Luckily I have three hands so that's no problem.
Just 3? So how do you hold your coffee??
And your phone to make sure that map is correct?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fduebymonday.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F05%2Fmultitasking-octopus-in-car.png&hash=8b0b1df8f026c901bc7a58aad2162661de731a49)
Quote from: kalvado on November 16, 2017, 11:46:00 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 16, 2017, 11:44:10 AM
Quote from: kalvado on November 16, 2017, 11:36:01 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 16, 2017, 10:06:28 AM
Quote from: kalvado on November 16, 2017, 04:13:11 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 16, 2017, 12:24:19 AM
Everyone here driving around...
http://c8.alamy.com/comp/A7PEFJ/young-man-reading-a-map-while-driving-A7PEFJ.jpg
No way. Remember, one hand should work stickshift.
Luckily I have three hands so that's no problem.
Just 3? So how do you hold your coffee??
And your phone to make sure that map is correct?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fduebymonday.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F05%2Fmultitasking-octopus-in-car.png&hash=8b0b1df8f026c901bc7a58aad2162661de731a49)
The octopus is smoking, and that's deadly.
Also, that looks like the basic McDonald's Cheeseburger.
When planning a trip, even into relatively known territory, I use Streets and Trips - mainly for the fuel calculations to remind myself about gas stops (Rule # 1 - analog fuel gauges are only an approximation of fuel use). If my route involves major junctions I've never traversed, or I know have been reconfigured since my last trip through them, I "drive" through them on my computer (using GSV) a couple of days before my trip to familiarize myself with the signs and the configuration.
On the road, I have a GPS, which I use mostly for the time and distance remaining information. The "you're going too high above the speed limit" feature (bell that goes off when you reach a certain speed that's above the posted limit - mine is set for 75 mph) is also nice. I also carry a printout of the Streets and Trips directions, and a Michelin road atlas I picked up in 2014 for 99 cents at an Ocean State Job Lot, as backup.
Although it's not navigation related, my other main pre-planning effort for a road trip is to go to RadioReference and download the applicable State Police and DOT frequencies for the states I'll be traveling through, which I then download into my scanner. Sure beats the early days of road trips, where I would have to manually input every frequency by hand - and have to change the frequencies every third day or so on longer trips.
Quote from: roadman on November 16, 2017, 12:14:04 PMWhen planning a trip, even into relatively known territory, I use Streets and Trips - mainly for the fuel calculations to remind myself about gas stops (Rule # 1 - analog fuel gauges are only an approximation of fuel use).
No trip computer with distance-to-empty indication? Personally, I use the rule of up to 10% error in indicated MPG (arising from fuel pressure regulation being considered in spec if it varies no more than 10% from the designated value) and also check wind speed and direction.
Quote from: roadman on November 16, 2017, 12:14:04 PMIf my route involves major junctions I've never traversed, or I know have been reconfigured since my last trip through them, I "drive" through them on my computer (using GSV) a couple of days before my trip to familiarize myself with the signs and the configuration.
I try to do this but often fail to do so through laziness since a 600-mile trip can easily run through 15 or more system interchanges--e.g., downtown Wichita to downtown Houston involves 25 via the most direct route. In some cases the StreetView imagery has little value because construction has rendered it obsolete; I've learned the hard way to try to do 511 checks online before departure.
Quote from: roadman on November 16, 2017, 12:14:04 PMOn the road, I have a GPS, which I use mostly for the time and distance remaining information. The "you're going too high above the speed limit" feature (bell that goes off when you exceed X mph above the limit - mine is set for 75 mph) is also nice.
I rely on cruise control for speed limit compliance. Often I set it a few miles per hour below the posted limit. This ensures that any speeding I do is deliberate, confined to a discrete interval in space and time, and is generally part of a structured adjustment of my position in traffic. Admittedly, the vast bulk of my driving is in parts of the country where LOS on rural freeways seldom dips below C.
Google Maps is my main tool for planning road trips, and mob-rule's county-lines map is great for checking which counties I can try to visit. I've been using paper maps on my current trip, since I don't want to spend the money on using data in the U.S., but I planned my route on Google Maps.
Even though paper maps aren't really necessary in this day-and-age, I find them fun to look at around the house before trips. It gets you pumped up! Highlighting maps during/after a trip of your travels is also great too.
GPS is a nice backup, but I prefer to memorize my route, which is usually doable. GPS can be a pain if I'm trying to trick my parents into taking a detour to clinch a road or add a county to my map :-D
Quote from: J N Winkler on November 16, 2017, 05:22:07 PM
No trip computer with distance-to-empty indication? Personally, I use the rule of up to 10% error in indicated MPG (arising from fuel pressure regulation being considered in spec if it varies no more than 10% from the designated value) and also check wind speed and direction.
My previous car didn't have a distance to empty indication. Plus, it's good to know approximate range to fuel stops before hand.
QuoteI rely on cruise control for speed limit compliance. Often I set it a few miles per hour below the posted limit. This ensures that any speeding I do is deliberate, confined to a discrete interval in space and time, and is generally part of a structured adjustment of my position in traffic. Admittedly, the vast bulk of my driving is in parts of the country where LOS on rural freeways seldom dips below C.
My current car, a 2012 Focus SE I bought used in 2014, doesn't have cruise control. When I was shopping for cars, the dealer had a 2012 Focus Titanium that had it, but the car also had almost 29,000 miles on it, as compared to the 7,800 on the SE I ended up buying. Plus, when I did have cruise control on my previous cars (1988 Prelude and 1999 Contour), my nickname for it was "traffic creator." This is because it always seemed that, when engaging cruise control on even a relatively empty road, I would almost immediately encounter traffic that became heavy enough I'd have to disengage it.
As for speed control, I normally drive at or around the speed limit. However, on the open highway, I've increasingly found I tend to go faster than I think I'm going, especially in light traffic. Hence the reason I use the "alarm" feature on the GPS when I'm on longer trips.