Hey,
I am from Maryland and travel in Virginia a lot. But I am always scared to travel through because of the heavy speed enforcement. I suffer on I95 just because I can't drive 55 mph on 301. :no: Is anything up to 10 mph over ok? Or should I stick to only 5 mph over like I've been doing. It just feels like I'm losing my mind and people always pass me like I'm doing something wrong! :confused: I've also read things online about them pulling people over for 2-4 mph over which is so crazy and clearly about $$$. Maybe that's not true. I know reckless driving is +20 or 80 mph and that is kind of understandable but 65 in a 55 seems reasonable. Maybe I'm just crazy lol :-D
Thanks in advance.
I've lived in Virginia since 1974 and driven here since 1989. I don't think Virginia deserves the fearsome reputation it seems to have. Certainly there are some places known for strict enforcement (US-29 in Madison County comes to mind). But in my observation over the years, the most important things are to keep it below the reckless threshold and not to do anything stupid to call attention to yourself. There's almost always going to be someone who's desperate to show off that he thinks he has a faster car than you do. Let him. There's often going to be someone who feels the need to weave in and out of traffic in an attempt to go faster. Let him. They're calling attention to themselves and the cops will spot them as well.
I think it's easier to go faster when traffic is reasonably heavy simply because it's harder to stand out. That is, if the road is relatively empty and you're going 70 mph in a 60-mph zone, you're more noticeable and a cop may decide to pull you over for whatever random reason. If you're on the Beltway, on the other hand, most of the time 70 mph is not that likely to stand out, even though the speed limit is 55 (or 65 in the express lanes), because there's so much other traffic.
None of these comments apply to local roads, of course. The City of Falls Church is known for nailing people along the portion of Broad Street (Route 7) between Seven Corners and Washington Street (Route 29). The speed limit there is 25 mph and I set my cruise control at 27 or 28 (it won't turn on below 25).
Good advice!
I love driving in Virginia, because of the scenery and the road stuff (you never know when you're going to come across some interesting signage) but I also hate driving in Virginia because of the enforcement -- particularly the reckless threshold and the ban on radar detectors. It's impossible to drive the speed limit on roads like I-81 or I-95 because of the heavy traffic and the fact that so many drivers don't seem to mind the reckless threshold and will fly by you. I can be doing 75 on those roads and still get passed like I'm sitting still, but my luck is such that if I drove the same speed as those passing me, I'd be the one that gets pulled over.
And don't get me started on the radar detector ban. My V-1 saved me from at least two tickets on my western Kentucky trip this past weekend.
Just make sure you're driving at exactly the speed limit if your travels ever take you to I-295 in Hopewell.
Everybody talks about Virginia's "reckless threshhold" completely forgetting that many other states have a similiar deal, just worded differently.
In North Carolina anything 15 over the limit (or 80 mph, which ever is less) is an actual class 3 misdemeanor criminal offense that can get you 10 days in jail, $200.00 fine and DMV will suspend your license upon conviction. I have never personally heard of anyone getting the jail time, but that fine + court costs is a be-atch, and getting your drivers license back is a real costly PITA too. The troopers in my home county won't even look in your direction at 79 mph (in the 70 zones). You hit 80 they'll look your way, 81 and you are sitting on the side of the road gettng your copy of the citation.
I haven't used a radar detector since my last one got stolen in 1989, and I drive the same speed as the pack, or no more than 8-9 over when alone in every state I have been to in the last 20 years (including VA) and I haven't been bothered by any LEO's at all.
I will admit to not cutting up as much on the mountain roads in VA like I will in NC and TN-I guess alot of that does come from VA's small town speed trap horror stories.
Quote from: hbelkins on November 06, 2017, 03:29:13 PM
I love driving in Virginia, because of the scenery and the road stuff (you never know when you're going to come across some interesting signage) but I also hate driving in Virginia because of the enforcement -- particularly the reckless threshold and the ban on radar detectors. It's impossible to drive the speed limit on roads like I-81 or I-95 because of the heavy traffic and the fact that so many drivers don't seem to mind the reckless threshold and will fly by you. I can be doing 75 on those roads and still get passed like I'm sitting still, but my luck is such that if I drove the same speed as those passing me, I'd be the one that gets pulled over.
And don't get me started on the radar detector ban. My V-1 saved me from at least two tickets on my western Kentucky trip this past weekend.
Yeah the scenery is amazing especially on I81. The radar detector ban is petty but what they can't ban is the Waze app so if you don't have it I highly recommend it especially on I95 with the speed traps every mile from DC to Richmond. Its crazy how the sign clearly says over 80 is reckless and I go to pass someone and then someone is flying up behind wanting to go 85-90 mph because they just don't care. I do think they should change it to 85 mph like they proposed a few years ago because its very easy to get over 80 when passing. https://wtop.com/dc-transit/2016/02/going-11-mph-speed-limit-va-may-no-longer-land-jail/
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on November 06, 2017, 03:58:38 PM
Just make sure you're driving at exactly the speed limit if your travels ever take you to I-295 in Hopewell.
Yeah I've heard about Hopewell. Also Windsor and Waverly when I take US 460 to Norfolk/VA Beach. Too bad they never made that 75 mph toll road from Suffolk to Petersburg but I have a feeling the towns had something to do with the cancellation because their $$$$ was going away because the locals know not to speed.
Quote from: slorydn1 on November 06, 2017, 04:04:13 PM
Everybody talks about Virginia's "reckless threshhold" completely forgetting that many other states have a similiar deal, just worded differently.
In North Carolina anything 15 over the limit (or 80 mph, which ever is less) is an actual class 3 misdemeanor criminal offense that can get you 10 days in jail, $200.00 fine and DMV will suspend your license upon conviction. I have never personally heard of anyone getting the jail time, but that fine + court costs is a be-atch, and getting your drivers license back is a real costly PITA too. The troopers in my home county won't even look in your direction at 79 mph (in the 70 zones). You hit 80 they'll look your way, 81 and you are sitting on the side of the road gettng your copy of the citation.
I haven't used a radar detector since my last one got stolen in 1989, and I drive the same speed as the pack, or no more than 8-9 over when alone in every state I have been to in the last 20 years (including VA) and I haven't been bothered by any LEO's at all.
I will admit to not cutting up as much on the mountain roads in VA like I will in NC and TN-I guess alot of that does come from VA's small town speed trap horror stories.
I agree that after hearing about NC that they are indeed worse but never seem to get as much attention as Virginia. :hmmm: I'm gonna set my cruise to 63-64 mph when in a 55 mph zone from now on.
Quote from: MarylandMichael on November 06, 2017, 04:16:18 PM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on November 06, 2017, 03:58:38 PM
Just make sure you're driving at exactly the speed limit if your travels ever take you to I-295 in Hopewell.
Yeah I've heard about Hopewell. Also Windsor and Waverly when I take US 460 to Norfolk/VA Beach. Too bad they never made that 75 mph toll road from Suffolk to Petersburg but I have a feeling the towns had something to do with the cancellation because their $$$$ was going away because the locals know not to speed.
If you are interested in the actual reason this road was shelved, go here - https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=449.0
Early pages have tangents but most of it is all about the progress then cancellation of the project...
Quote from: Mapmikey on November 06, 2017, 04:31:08 PM
Quote from: MarylandMichael on November 06, 2017, 04:16:18 PM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on November 06, 2017, 03:58:38 PM
Just make sure you're driving at exactly the speed limit if your travels ever take you to I-295 in Hopewell.
Yeah I've heard about Hopewell. Also Windsor and Waverly when I take US 460 to Norfolk/VA Beach. Too bad they never made that 75 mph toll road from Suffolk to Petersburg but I have a feeling the towns had something to do with the cancellation because their $$$$ was going away because the locals know not to speed.
If you are interested in the actual reason this road was shelved, go here - https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=449.0
Early pages have tangents but most of it is all about the progress then cancellation of the project...
Thanks I'll check it out.
QuoteI don't think Virginia deserves the fearsome reputation it seems to have.
This, this, this, this, this. A million times. It's 98% hype. You're fine as long as you don't stick out like a sore thumb.
I drove through Virginia during my visit last week. As others have said, stick to the speed limit and you'll be passed by the rest of the traffic as though you're stationary. It's not helped when many of the rural roads still have a 55mph limit when similar roads in other states have had their limits increased. On Route 7 between Winchester and Leesburg the average seemed to be 70 and even travelling at that speed wasn't immune from being passed by even faster traffic. I also found a poor lack of lane discipline where many left lane campers caused traffic to bunch resulting in some drivers swooping between lanes to get past them.
I remember my last visit to Virginia in 2011 where I was pulled over for doing 84 in a 70 in I-77. The deputy said that speed was dangerous driving but waived that charge due to my foreign licence and did me just for the speed at $6 per mile over.
It may be pretty, especially at this time of year with the fall colours but I'd rather drive further west where it's more laid back and relaxing and no one is in such a hurry.
Quote from: 1995hoo on November 06, 2017, 12:55:34 PM
I think it's easier to go faster when traffic is reasonably heavy simply because it's harder to stand out.
This is probably what bothers me the most about speed enforcement. There is no good reason I should be
more worried about my speed in the middle of nowhere on an empty road than I am on a congested urban expressway. Yet I am, for precisely the reasons you describe.
From November of last year through May of this year, I was driving I-81 twice a month, shuttling between Connecticut and Memphis.
I'd say that the two things that make Virginia stand out for speed enforcement were the visual reminders about the speed threshold for reckless driving, and the number of troopers I saw checking speeds.
It wasn't my impression that they were being any more stringent than troopers in other states; just that they were a more common sight than in some other states.
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on November 10, 2017, 04:49:56 PM
From November of last year through May of this year, I was driving I-81 twice a month, shuttling between Connecticut and Memphis.
I'd say that the two things that make Virginia stand out for speed enforcement were the visual reminders about the speed threshold for reckless driving, and the number of troopers I saw checking speeds.
It wasn't my impression that they were being any more stringent than troopers in other states; just that they were a more common sight than in some other states.
VSP do appear to have stepped up enforcement on I-81 in recent weeks; I drove to Bristol 3 weeks ago and spotted at least 5 people who had been pulled over. On my way back home from HR last weekend I saw at least 8 cruisers in a ~100 mile span.
That being said, my general impression is that outside of a number well-known trouble sports (Hopewell and Emporia come to mind, though they mostly seem to target out-of-staters), speed enforcement in VA isn't bad unless you're pretty flagrant about it (or forget about the radar detector ban).
The Hopewell City Sheriff is the one that does the enforcement. I think I read an article about the election for city sheriff had both candidates advising that they would both continue the enforcement.
My understanding is that most City Sheriffs in VA do not much traffic enforcement.
Here's the thing about Speed Enforcement: It's just one of many laws. But it's the one people fear the most.
People will have different opinions if they have gotten pulled over vs. if they haven't.
People will have different opinions based on what they see or hear.
Take the example above where someone saw numerous people pulled over...was it because they were speeding...or because they had a headlight out? Or expired registration stickers? Unless you're stopping and asking, you don't know why those people were pulled over. Recently in Maryland, traffic slowed to a crawl. We passed by a few State Troopers in the median. Suddenly, the trooper pulls out, drives up the shoulder, and pulls someone over. That certainly wasn't for speeding. But none of the hundreds of drivers passing by will know why that person got stopped. Heck, give it 30 seconds, and people further back that didn't see what I saw are going to see the car on the side of the road and wonder why everyone has to slow down just to see a cop on the side of the road...when traffic was already slow well before the stop occurred.
For me, driving a car with NJ tags, I've never felt uncomfortable driving up to 78/79 mph on Virginia's interstates. And yet, I have even exceeded 80 on occasion when traffic conditions worked in my favor. Same thing on North Carolina's interstates. Or New Jersey's interstates. Or any state's interstates, honestly. I'm rarely the fastest driver at that speed. The speed traps "every mile" don't exist. People see a cop and freak out that it's a speed trap. That cop sitting in the median could be writing up an accident report, or reviewing a criminal case. If he's driving along the highway, maybe he's just trying to get home from work.
So, going back to the OP's statements and questions: "Heavy Speed Enforcement" is probably not that heavy. You've just heard the rumors, see some people on the side of the road on *rare* occasion, and overanalyzed it.
As is always the case - drive the speed you feel comfortable driving.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 10, 2017, 10:32:11 PM
For me, driving a car with NJ tags, I've never felt uncomfortable driving up to 78/79 mph on Virginia's interstates. And yet, I have even exceeded 80 on occasion when traffic conditions worked in my favor. Same thing on North Carolina's interstates. Or New Jersey's interstates. Or any state's interstates, honestly.
But the big difference is that in those states other than Virginia, you can use a tool to tell you if there is speed enforcement ahead. I've been known to drive 80-85 in a lot of places with speed limits of 65 or 70, but not in Virginia. Because in those other states, my trusty Valentine One will let me know if there's danger in the vicinity.
Another attempt to raise the Reckless Driving limit from 80mph to 85mph is being made.
https://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?ses=201&typ=bil&val=sb63 (https://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?ses=201&typ=bil&val=sb63)
Makes sense. Reckless should be 15+ over the posted speed. The current 80 mph reckless limit can be abused by law enforcement in 70mph zones.
Quote from: tjcreasy on January 23, 2020, 08:36:24 AM
Makes sense. Reckless should be 15+ over the posted speed. The current 80 mph reckless limit can be abused by law enforcement in 70mph zones.
Agreed. Driving 80 mph isn't unreasonable on most rural highways, and certainly isn't "reckless" , though 85 mph is pushing it for comfort level for a lot of drivers.
A decrease in revenue might be another reason to stop it yet again though.
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 23, 2020, 10:38:08 AM
Quote from: tjcreasy on January 23, 2020, 08:36:24 AM
Makes sense. Reckless should be 15+ over the posted speed. The current 80 mph reckless limit can be abused by law enforcement in 70mph zones.
Agreed. Driving 80 mph isn't unreasonable on most rural highways, and certainly isn't "reckless" , though 85 mph is pushing it for comfort level for a lot of drivers.
A decrease in revenue might be another reason to stop it yet again though.
I'm skeptical of whether it stands much chance of passing with the Democrats in control of both houses. Traditionally, Democrats have been viewed as more likely to be skeptical of proposed laws they think might encourage people to drive faster. I recall back in 1995 when the NMSL repeal bill got through Congress, many commentators noted that provision likely would not have been included had the Republicans not taken control after the 1994 election. Then-President Clinton said at the time he wasn't sure he liked that provision but that the overall highway funding bill was too important to veto.
I don't really see why there needs to be a specific speed at which reckless driving is presumed anyway. Recklessness is a longstanding legal concept whereby someone acts in intentional disregard of his own safety or the safety of other people. The mere fact that you're going 90 mph doesn't necessarily mean you're disregarding anyone's safety; a great example might be if you're on a very wide and smooth highway with little to no other traffic and you're driving a new Corvette (though even there, a new and inexperienced driver might be acting recklessly while someone who's been driving for 30 years might not be). Certainly the location may be relevant because that will factor into the amount of traffic or the likelihood of other traffic entering at the next interchange. I-295 around Richmond and Petersburg is a very different road from I-495 in Northern Virginia, for example.
The idea that driving 15 mph over the posted limit is, by definition, reckless, is totally absurd.
Inconsistent enforcement seems a good reason to have an explicit threshold. Then simply rename it "Extraordinary Speeding" or something like that to avoid the "reckless is a determination" angle to it.
After all, DUI is determined by a BAC reading.
I'm not sure how it is in other states, but in Kentucky, driving with a BAC of 0.08 is considered illegal in and of itself, no matter how intoxicated you are. And for those under 21, having a BAC of 0.02 is illegal, again with no specified level of intoxication.
Quote from: tjcreasy on January 23, 2020, 08:36:24 AM
Makes sense. Reckless should be 15+ over the posted speed. The current 80 mph reckless limit can be abused by law enforcement in 70mph zones.
Not if the driver doesn't abuse their speedometer, or doesn't know how to control his car.
Driving fast isn't "reckless" . It's reckless when you're weaving in and out of lanes, tailgating, road rage, etc. If you get onto an empty highway and drive 82 mph in a 70 mph, you're not being reckless. You're certainly speeding, but that does -not- warrant a reckless charge.
Some states don't have a defined limit for reckless, rather it's based on driver behavior overall. If you're doing 83 mph, tailgating, weaving in and out of lanes, then it's reckless. But if you're doing 83 mph with a flow of traffic, you're not driving recklessly. You're speeding, but not driving recklessly.
Any way you slice it.
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 23, 2020, 08:10:08 PM
Driving fast isn't "reckless" . It's reckless when you're weaving in and out of lanes, tailgating, road rage, etc.
So driving at 70 mph on Broad Street isn't reckless?
Driving at 120 mph on Chippenham Parkway isn't reckless?
Most drivers couldn't handle anywhere near those speeds on those roads.
Quote from: Beltway on January 23, 2020, 11:33:01 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 23, 2020, 08:10:08 PM
Driving fast isn't "reckless" . It's reckless when you're weaving in and out of lanes, tailgating, road rage, etc.
So driving at 70 mph on Broad Street isn't reckless?
Driving at 120 mph on Chippenham Parkway isn't reckless?
Most drivers couldn't handle anywhere near those speeds on those roads.
Back on topic, please. This isn't MTR and Judy Diarea.
The spelling is -- diarrhea.
Quote from: Beltway on January 23, 2020, 11:33:01 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 23, 2020, 08:10:08 PM
Driving fast isn't "reckless" . It's reckless when you're weaving in and out of lanes, tailgating, road rage, etc.
So driving at 70 mph on Broad Street isn't reckless?
Driving at 120 mph on Chippenham Parkway isn't reckless?
Most drivers couldn't handle anywhere near those speeds on those roads.
Bad examples. Doing 82 mph on a rural interstate highway is -not- reckless, and in many states is legal or just 2-7 mph over the speed limit.
The 20 mph threshold is still reasonable, and that would be well exceeding it on those roads.
"Reckless" is whatever the legislature says it is.
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 24, 2020, 07:11:25 AM
Bad examples.
Did you see what Alps said 7 hours ago? ?
I don't think those are truly bad examples, and I think my comment will tie it to the overall issue in such a way that it won't run afoul of Alps's admonition.
It seems to me that someone who drives 70 mph in a 25-mph zone is most likely acting with intentional disregard for the safety of himself or other people. I remember an incident maybe 15 years ago or so in my community where a high school girl crashed her car into a brick "neighborhood entrance wall" (essentially a decorative architectural feature seen at the entrance to each neighborhood within the larger Kingstowne community). She was apparently going 75 mph on Kingstowne Village Parkway, a 35-mph four-lane divided street through a residential area that isn't a particularly straight line, and she lost control of her car going around one of the sharper curves. I think a reckless driving charge is completely justified in that situation even if she doesn't crash. In a residential area, you can expect there to be pedestrians on the sidewalk, kids riding bikes, the possibility of a ball rolling out into the street or a dog acting unpredictably, etc. Most of those things do not normally apply out on the Interstate.
Long way of saying, I do think it's reasonable for there to be a distinction between different types of roads when considering what constitutes reckless driving. Ridiculously excessive speed might be enough in a residential area, but I don't think it should be enough, absent other circumstances, on most Interstate-grade highways. ("Absent other circumstances" is intended to recognize that traffic, weather, etc. all might mean that in some situations a speed may be inappropriate even though it's not really a problem in other circumstances. Work zones are another such situation, especially when there are sudden lane shifts, old lane markings that weren't removed, etc.)
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 24, 2020, 12:26:14 PM
I don't think those are truly bad examples, and I think my comment will tie it to the overall issue in such a way that it won't run afoul of Alps's admonition.
It seems to me that someone who drives 70 mph in a 25-mph zone is most likely acting with intentional disregard for the safety of himself or other people. I remember an incident maybe 15 years ago or so in my community where a high school girl crashed her car into a brick "neighborhood entrance wall" (essentially a decorative architectural feature seen at the entrance to each neighborhood within the larger Kingstowne community). She was apparently going 75 mph on Kingstowne Village Parkway, a 35-mph four-lane divided street through a residential area that isn't a particularly straight line, and she lost control of her car going around one of the sharper curves. I think a reckless driving charge is completely justified in that situation even if she doesn't crash. In a residential area, you can expect there to be pedestrians on the sidewalk, kids riding bikes, the possibility of a ball rolling out into the street or a dog acting unpredictably, etc. Most of those things do not normally apply out on the Interstate.
Long way of saying, I do think it's reasonable for there to be a distinction between different types of roads when considering what constitutes reckless driving. Ridiculously excessive speed might be enough in a residential area, but I don't think it should be enough, absent other circumstances, on most Interstate-grade highways. ("Absent other circumstances" is intended to recognize that traffic, weather, etc. all might mean that in some situations a speed may be inappropriate even though it's not really a problem in other circumstances. Work zones are another such situation, especially when there are sudden lane shifts, old lane markings that weren't removed, etc.)
The problem is everyone will claim that their speeding is "fast but safe". An explicit threshold, much like the legal limit for BAC with respect to DUI, removes that argument.
Anything over 85 mph on a rural interstate highway is certainly getting into reckless territory, but 80 mph is still well within reason. The proposed increase would bring the law closer to reality.
For example, I don't have an issue driving 82 mph, though I wouldn't be comfortable drive any faster if a road is 70 mph or 75 mph.
When I've taken the 85 mph TX-130 toll road near Austin, the most I'll get up to is around 88 mph, maybe 90 mph, but no faster. The speed limit is perfectly reasonable, and the road is designed for such.
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on January 24, 2020, 01:04:25 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 24, 2020, 12:26:14 PM
I don't think those are truly bad examples, and I think my comment will tie it to the overall issue in such a way that it won't run afoul of Alps's admonition.
It seems to me that someone who drives 70 mph in a 25-mph zone is most likely acting with intentional disregard for the safety of himself or other people. I remember an incident maybe 15 years ago or so in my community where a high school girl crashed her car into a brick "neighborhood entrance wall" (essentially a decorative architectural feature seen at the entrance to each neighborhood within the larger Kingstowne community). She was apparently going 75 mph on Kingstowne Village Parkway, a 35-mph four-lane divided street through a residential area that isn't a particularly straight line, and she lost control of her car going around one of the sharper curves. I think a reckless driving charge is completely justified in that situation even if she doesn't crash. In a residential area, you can expect there to be pedestrians on the sidewalk, kids riding bikes, the possibility of a ball rolling out into the street or a dog acting unpredictably, etc. Most of those things do not normally apply out on the Interstate.
Long way of saying, I do think it's reasonable for there to be a distinction between different types of roads when considering what constitutes reckless driving. Ridiculously excessive speed might be enough in a residential area, but I don't think it should be enough, absent other circumstances, on most Interstate-grade highways. ("Absent other circumstances" is intended to recognize that traffic, weather, etc. all might mean that in some situations a speed may be inappropriate even though it's not really a problem in other circumstances. Work zones are another such situation, especially when there are sudden lane shifts, old lane markings that weren't removed, etc.)
The problem is everyone will claim that their speeding is "fast but safe". An explicit threshold, much like the legal limit for BAC with respect to DUI, removes that argument.
I don't think it removes the argument at all. It's very obvious things the government told us were unsafe are in fact not unsafe. Remember how for years they claimed the 55-mph speed limit was for our safety and that it was too dangerous to go faster than that? Yet some of the same roads that used to be posted at 55 are now posted (in Virginia) at up to 70 mph (some other states obviously have higher limits). You can't expect me to accept that it was inherently unsafe to exceed 55 mph on I-66 between Haymarket and I-81 when the same road, with basically no changes other than perhaps a resurfacing at some point, is now posted at 70.
Essentially, your argument sounds to me a lot like the argument that "if it's the law, it must be right." Obviously, there are plenty of examples throughout history of bad laws that no rational person nowadays would defend as being "right." If instead what you are trying to say is that you believe it's reasonable for the General Assembly to set some hard number in order to deter the hard-core speeders, I can agree with the general concept behind that argument while disagreeing that a blanket "81 mph equals reckless" standard is justified on all highways. I view the overall principle of 20 mph over the limit being the threshold as being more reasonable than "20 over or in excess of 80, the latter regardless of the posted speed limit."
Quote from: Beltway on January 24, 2020, 01:06:21 AM
The spelling is -- diarrhea.
Not the way "she" spelled it.
For what it's worth, in NJ 30 mph over the limit can get you a careless driving ticket. 40 mph over is reckless driving and a mandatory court appearance. So that makes it 105 in a 65. And while you an argue that some roads are under posted, it's hard to find an example where they're under posted by 30 or 40 mph.
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 24, 2020, 02:32:06 PMAnything over 85 mph on a rural interstate highway is certainly getting into reckless territory, but 80 mph is still well within reason. The proposed increase would bring the law closer to reality.
How do you go from 80 being well within reason, then 5 mph later being reckless?
Does that mean in a 75 mph state 10 over is reckless?
Does that mean in an 80 mph state 5 over is reckless?
Does that mean on the 85 mph roadway in Texas, driving the speed limit is also reckless?
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 24, 2020, 02:32:06 PM
Anything over 85 mph on a rural interstate highway is certainly getting into reckless territory
...
When I've taken the 85 mph TX-130 toll road near Austin, the most I'll get up to is around 88 mph, maybe 90 mph, but no faster.
By your own admission, that was reckless driving. Unless, that is, anything over 85 mph on a rural
non-interstate highway is
not certainly getting into reckless territory.
I find it utterly ridiculous to know that a speed that's perfectly legal on a freeway in one state is considered absolutely reckless by law on any rural freeway in another state.
Quote from: kphoger on January 24, 2020, 06:51:19 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 24, 2020, 02:32:06 PM
Anything over 85 mph on a rural interstate highway is certainly getting into reckless territory
...
When I've taken the 85 mph TX-130 toll road near Austin, the most I'll get up to is around 88 mph, maybe 90 mph, but no faster.
By your own admission, that was reckless driving. Unless, that is, anything over 85 mph on a rural non-interstate highway is not certainly getting into reckless territory.
My comment was largely referring to 70 mph interstate highways designed for those speeds. For a road like TX-130, it's specifically designed for those high speeds, and is safe to drive such. If such interstate was a long straightaway, I also wouldn't call that necessarily reckless either.
Bottom line - reckless driving charges need to be accessed on not only speed, but the road conditions at the time, including roadway geometry, driver behavior, freeway vs. arterial, traffic volume, etc. Having a uniform set 81 mph or higher threshold for an automatic reckless charge isn't the way it should be approached... but that revenue though.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 24, 2020, 06:31:01 PM
How do you go from 80 being well within reason, then 5 mph later being reckless?
Does that mean in a 75 mph state 10 over is reckless?
Does that mean in an 80 mph state 5 over is reckless?
Does that mean on the 85 mph roadway in Texas, driving the speed limit is also reckless?
See comments above for clarification.
Also never said it was automatically reckless, but is beginning to approach that territory.
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 24, 2020, 07:21:00 PM
My comment was largely referring to 70 mph interstate highways designed for those speeds. For a road like TX-130, it's specifically designed for those high speeds, and is safe to drive such. If such interstate was a long straightaway, I also wouldn't call that necessarily reckless either.
What was the design speed for all Interstates in Virginia?
Quote from: kphoger on January 25, 2020, 12:28:34 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 24, 2020, 07:21:00 PM
My comment was largely referring to 70 mph interstate highways designed for those speeds. For a road like TX-130, it's specifically designed for those high speeds, and is safe to drive such. If such interstate was a long straightaway, I also wouldn't call that necessarily reckless either.
What was the design speed for all Interstates in Virginia?
Usually 70 mph or 75 mph. I'm unaware of any segment specifically designed for 80 mph or higher engineering wise, though there are certainly segments (straightaways, large curves, etc.) that can easily handle those speeds.
In addition to a bunch of other highway-related stuff, it looks like the recently-announced HB1414 (and likely its Senate counterpart) will be bringing Speed Cameras to the state of Virginia: http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?201+sum+HB1414
Quote
The bill adopts several safety initiatives, including: (i) making it illegal to possess an open container of alcohol in a motor vehicle, (ii) requiring all passengers in a vehicle to wear safety belts and making failure to wear a safety belt a primary offense, (iii) prohibiting the use of handheld personal communication devices, (iv) establishing a speed monitoring program in highway safety corridors that uses a vehicle sensor to take a picture of a vehicle traveling more than 10 miles over the speed limit, subjecting the driver to a monetary fine, and (v) allowing localities to lower the speed limit below 25 miles per hour in business and residential districts. The Commissioner of the Department of Motor Vehicles will establish an advisory committee to oversee education and enforcement of policies such as the seatbelt and hands-free provisions.
Quote from: LM117 on January 23, 2020, 06:48:56 AM
Another attempt to raise the Reckless Driving limit from 80mph to 85mph is being made.
https://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?ses=201&typ=bil&val=sb63 (https://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?ses=201&typ=bil&val=sb63)
The Senate passed the bill yesterday.
https://wtop.com/dc-transit/2020/01/virginia-could-ditch-jail-time-for-drivers-going-81-mph-in-a-70-mph-zone/ (https://wtop.com/dc-transit/2020/01/virginia-could-ditch-jail-time-for-drivers-going-81-mph-in-a-70-mph-zone/)
QuoteVirginia could remove the risk of jail time for drivers who speed 81 mph in a 70 mph zone.
The Virginia Senate voted 25-14 Monday to approve a bill that would change the automatic reckless driving standard from over 80 mph to over 85 mph in a 70 mph zone.
"I've not met anyone who actually thinks that driving 11 miles over the speed limit ought to be punished by up to a year in jail and/or a $2,500 fine. Unfortunately, that's what the current law allows," said state Sen. David Suetterlein, R-Roanoke.
The bill would keep the standard of reckless driving for speeding 20 mph or more over the posted speed limit.
Opponents of the bill worry it will simply encourage even more speeding. Though the Senate has passed versions of the bill in previous years, those measure have died in the House.
This year, a similar House bill has been endorsed by the House Transportation Committee, but it still must be considered by the Courts of Justice Committee.
Quote from: LM117 on January 28, 2020, 07:59:13 PM
Quote from: LM117 on January 23, 2020, 06:48:56 AM
Another attempt to raise the Reckless Driving limit from 80mph to 85mph is being made.
https://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?ses=201&typ=bil&val=sb63 (https://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?ses=201&typ=bil&val=sb63)
The Senate passed the bill yesterday.
https://wtop.com/dc-transit/2020/01/virginia-could-ditch-jail-time-for-drivers-going-81-mph-in-a-70-mph-zone/ (https://wtop.com/dc-transit/2020/01/virginia-could-ditch-jail-time-for-drivers-going-81-mph-in-a-70-mph-zone/)
QuoteVirginia could remove the risk of jail time for drivers who speed 81 mph in a 70 mph zone.
The Virginia Senate voted 25-14 Monday to approve a bill that would change the automatic reckless driving standard from over 80 mph to over 85 mph in a 70 mph zone.
"I've not met anyone who actually thinks that driving 11 miles over the speed limit ought to be punished by up to a year in jail and/or a $2,500 fine. Unfortunately, that's what the current law allows," said state Sen. David Suetterlein, R-Roanoke.
The bill would keep the standard of reckless driving for speeding 20 mph or more over the posted speed limit.
Opponents of the bill worry it will simply encourage even more speeding. Though the Senate has passed versions of the bill in previous years, those measure have died in the House.
This year, a similar House bill has been endorsed by the House Transportation Committee, but it still must be considered by the Courts of Justice Committee.
Hopefully it will properly continue and pass the House as well, but more than likely it won't.
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 28, 2020, 08:35:31 PM
Quote from: LM117 on January 28, 2020, 07:59:13 PM
Quote from: LM117 on January 23, 2020, 06:48:56 AM
Another attempt to raise the Reckless Driving limit from 80mph to 85mph is being made.
https://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?ses=201&typ=bil&val=sb63 (https://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?ses=201&typ=bil&val=sb63)
The Senate passed the bill yesterday.
https://wtop.com/dc-transit/2020/01/virginia-could-ditch-jail-time-for-drivers-going-81-mph-in-a-70-mph-zone/ (https://wtop.com/dc-transit/2020/01/virginia-could-ditch-jail-time-for-drivers-going-81-mph-in-a-70-mph-zone/)
QuoteVirginia could remove the risk of jail time for drivers who speed 81 mph in a 70 mph zone.
The Virginia Senate voted 25-14 Monday to approve a bill that would change the automatic reckless driving standard from over 80 mph to over 85 mph in a 70 mph zone.
"I've not met anyone who actually thinks that driving 11 miles over the speed limit ought to be punished by up to a year in jail and/or a $2,500 fine. Unfortunately, that's what the current law allows," said state Sen. David Suetterlein, R-Roanoke.
The bill would keep the standard of reckless driving for speeding 20 mph or more over the posted speed limit.
Opponents of the bill worry it will simply encourage even more speeding. Though the Senate has passed versions of the bill in previous years, those measure have died in the House.
This year, a similar House bill has been endorsed by the House Transportation Committee, but it still must be considered by the Courts of Justice Committee.
Hopefully it will properly continue and pass the House as well, but more than likely it won't.
Agreed. When the last bill was killed, 3 of the delegates on that committee were lawyers, IIRC.
Criminal defense lawyers would lose a lot of easy money with this bill.
Quote from: LM117 on January 29, 2020, 07:48:41 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on January 28, 2020, 08:35:31 PM
Quote from: LM117 on January 28, 2020, 07:59:13 PM
Quote from: LM117 on January 23, 2020, 06:48:56 AM
Another attempt to raise the Reckless Driving limit from 80mph to 85mph is being made.
https://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?ses=201&typ=bil&val=sb63 (https://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?ses=201&typ=bil&val=sb63)
The Senate passed the bill yesterday.
https://wtop.com/dc-transit/2020/01/virginia-could-ditch-jail-time-for-drivers-going-81-mph-in-a-70-mph-zone/ (https://wtop.com/dc-transit/2020/01/virginia-could-ditch-jail-time-for-drivers-going-81-mph-in-a-70-mph-zone/)
QuoteVirginia could remove the risk of jail time for drivers who speed 81 mph in a 70 mph zone.
The Virginia Senate voted 25-14 Monday to approve a bill that would change the automatic reckless driving standard from over 80 mph to over 85 mph in a 70 mph zone.
"I've not met anyone who actually thinks that driving 11 miles over the speed limit ought to be punished by up to a year in jail and/or a $2,500 fine. Unfortunately, that's what the current law allows," said state Sen. David Suetterlein, R-Roanoke.
The bill would keep the standard of reckless driving for speeding 20 mph or more over the posted speed limit.
Opponents of the bill worry it will simply encourage even more speeding. Though the Senate has passed versions of the bill in previous years, those measure have died in the House.
This year, a similar House bill has been endorsed by the House Transportation Committee, but it still must be considered by the Courts of Justice Committee.
Hopefully it will properly continue and pass the House as well, but more than likely it won't.
Agreed. When the last bill was killed, 3 of the delegates on that committee were lawyers, IIRC.
Criminal defense lawyers would lose a lot of easy money with this bill.
Same reason why many oppose the elimination of car inspections. Many would loose money.
Personally, take a road like the Thruway, early on a clear summer morning with light traffic. There's basically no bounds! I wouldn't consider 100 mph to be reckless at all in those circumstances - maybe not sustained, but there's nothing inherently reckless about hitting any particular speed. It all depends on the context.
Quote from: LM117 on January 28, 2020, 07:59:13 PM
Quote from: LM117 on January 23, 2020, 06:48:56 AM
Another attempt to raise the Reckless Driving limit from 80mph to 85mph is being made.
https://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?ses=201&typ=bil&val=sb63 (https://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?ses=201&typ=bil&val=sb63)
The Senate passed the bill yesterday.
https://wtop.com/dc-transit/2020/01/virginia-could-ditch-jail-time-for-drivers-going-81-mph-in-a-70-mph-zone/ (https://wtop.com/dc-transit/2020/01/virginia-could-ditch-jail-time-for-drivers-going-81-mph-in-a-70-mph-zone/)
Hopefully it will properly continue and pass the House as well, but more than likely it won't.
Looks like it passed the house as of yesterday! Sanity has prevailed.
Regardless of what the legal provisions of the Code of Virginia (or similar county or municipal ordinances) are when it comes to "reckless driving by speed," I think it's important to realize that not every person that gets stopped for breaking the posted limit by 21 MPH or more is going to get banged with a reckless driving summons.
The person that gets stopped by a VSP blue and grey car for driving 77 MPH where the posted limit is 55 MPH stands a much better chance of getting the reckless driving ticket if they are a jerk or if conditions are bad (such as a construction work zone or rain). But there are times when the trooper will only issue a regular speeding ticket for that violation.
On the other hand, the guy going 120 MPH or more on a Suzuki Hayabusa (or similar) "crotch rocket" motorcycle will get the reckless driving ticket and probably a ride to the local jail on top of that. Unlike some law enforcement agencies, VSP will give chase in such situations.
I do not drive much over the posted limit in Virginia or elsewhere (I live across the creek in Maryland and drive a lot in the Commonwealth), and one thing I have noticed is that the strict speed limit enforcement is at its worst in smaller municipalities like the City of Falls Church, Town of Haymarket, City of Hopewell (home to the I-295 speed trap); Town of Tappahannock; City of Emporia and the tiny Towns of Newsoms in Southampton County and Eastville in Northampton County.
I have related here someplace that I angered the cops in Bridgeville, Delaware when DE-404 used to run through the town (it now bypasses) by deliberately slowing to well under the posted limit of 25 MPH. Same method can be used with the City of Falls Church municipal police - I had one get behind me after seeing my Maryland tags (I saw him before he saw me because I am always keeping a watch out for such things in Falls Church) and was already going about 20 MPH. He followed me for several blocks getting visibly irritated at my slow pace, and finally made a left to look for some other mark (without signaling the turn, which in Virginia is at least in theory reckless driving (https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title46.2/chapter8/section46.2-860/)).
If a cop got upset with you for driving at or below the posted speed limit, that blows a hole in the concept that speed enforcement is about safety and not revenue generation.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 10, 2020, 11:11:13 AM
If a cop got upset with you for driving at or below the posted speed limit, that blows a hole in the concept that speed enforcement is about safety and not revenue generation.
In Falls Church, in addition to the "regular" speeding fines, there are signs posted on most blocks that a speeding in a "residential zone" (which is most of the city) will result in an added fine of $200, which is probably intended to be collected for deposit in to the city general fund.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on May 08, 2020, 11:52:51 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 10, 2020, 11:11:13 AM
If a cop got upset with you for driving at or below the posted speed limit, that blows a hole in the concept that speed enforcement is about safety and not revenue generation.
In Falls Church, in addition to the "regular" speeding fines, there are signs posted on most blocks that a speeding in a "residential zone" (which is most of the city) will result in an added fine of $200, which is probably intended to be collected for deposit in to the city general fund.
I've seen a few such signs in Arlington (except just stating the extra penalty, without the "residential zone" language), especially on S. Carlin Springs Rd.
Fairfax City has those signs too: "SPEEDING" in black-on-yellow, then a separator line, then "ADDITIONAL $200 FINE" in black-on-white. Example on Roberts Road linked below (pan the image if needed–Sreet View on an iPad sometimes yields unpredictable results). This is the sign I see the most often because my dentist is around the corner from there on Main Street and I usually use Roberts to head home rather than making a U-turn on Main.
https://goo.gl/maps/zEHEkcG6Q3RVJhZ67
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 10, 2020, 08:46:53 AM
Fairfax City has those signs too: "SPEEDING" in black-on-yellow, then a separator line, then "ADDITIONAL $200 FINE" in black-on-white. Example on Roberts Road linked below (pan the image if needed–Sreet View on an iPad sometimes yields unpredictable results). This is the sign I see the most often because my dentist is around the corner from there on Main Street and I usually use Roberts to head home rather than making a U-turn on Main.
https://goo.gl/maps/zEHEkcG6Q3RVJhZ67
Think localities can create zones like that on residential streets with higher speeding fines. I've seen them elsewhere in the state.
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 10, 2020, 08:46:53 AM
Fairfax City has those signs too: "SPEEDING" in black-on-yellow, then a separator line, then "ADDITIONAL $200 FINE" in black-on-white. Example on Roberts Road linked below (pan the image if needed–Sreet View on an iPad sometimes yields unpredictable results). This is the sign I see the most often because my dentist is around the corner from there on Main Street and I usually use Roberts to head home rather than making a U-turn on Main.
https://goo.gl/maps/zEHEkcG6Q3RVJhZ67
I know the main arterial highways in the City of Fairfax pretty well, but do not think I have ever noticed those before. Fairfax [city] used to have a typical "small-town Virginia" reputation regarding speeding, but it seems to have been toned-down in recent years.
Fairfax
County can have strict speed limit enforcement, but because the land area of the county is huge, there do not seem to be predictable places where county police speed limit enforcement takes place - save for one - VA-286 (Fairfax County Parkway) between VA-123 (Ox Road) and I-66 where drivers seem to drive on it as if it were a freeway (it is definitely not - it is (at least informally) an expressway).
Quote from: cpzilliacus on May 17, 2020, 12:45:00 AM
save for one - VA-286 (Fairfax County Parkway) between VA-123 (Ox Road) and I-66 where drivers seem to drive on it as if it were a freeway (it is definitely not - it is (at least informally) an expressway).
The segment from Popes Head Rd to I-66 is built to full freeway standards.
The remainder is free-flowing limited access highway with a few minor at-grade intersections, plus one traffic signal at Burke Centre Pkwy, then a short segment of full freeway standard highway to past the VA-123 interchange.
The speed limit should be increased from 50 mph to at least 55 mph.
The ultimate goal should be of course widening to 6 lanes and eliminating the remaining at-grade intersections, replacing them with interchanges or overpasses, and providing a full 60 mph freeway between I-95 and I-66, though that will never obviously happen.
Gov. Allen wanted to raise the speed limit on the Fairfax County Parkway to 65 mph, but that proposal never got anywhere and it's never been revived by any subsequent governor. The funny thing is, back then it might have been more viable than it would be now, even though the road hasn't changed all that much except for the segment through Fair Lakes. There's so much more traffic now that the combination of the traffic lights with, in some places, limited visibility as you approach a light (example: southbound approaching Burke Centre Parkway) makes 65 non-viable, setting aside the General Assembly's overall practice of not allowing anything above 60 mph on roads with at-grade intersections. I'd say Route 123 south of the Parkway down to Lorton could easily support a higher speed limit than most of the Parkway could.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on May 17, 2020, 12:45:00 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 10, 2020, 08:46:53 AM
Fairfax City has those signs too: "SPEEDING" in black-on-yellow, then a separator line, then "ADDITIONAL $200 FINE" in black-on-white. Example on Roberts Road linked below (pan the image if needed–Sreet View on an iPad sometimes yields unpredictable results). This is the sign I see the most often because my dentist is around the corner from there on Main Street and I usually use Roberts to head home rather than making a U-turn on Main.
https://goo.gl/maps/zEHEkcG6Q3RVJhZ67
I know the main arterial highways in the City of Fairfax pretty well, but do not think I have ever noticed those before. Fairfax [city] used to have a typical "small-town Virginia" reputation regarding speeding, but it seems to have been toned-down in recent years.
Fairfax County can have strict speed limit enforcement, but because the land area of the county is huge, there do not seem to be predictable places where county police speed limit enforcement takes place - save for one - VA-286 (Fairfax County Parkway) between VA-123 (Ox Road) and I-66 where drivers seem to drive on it as if it were a freeway (it is definitely not - it is (at least informally) an expressway).
Fairfax City also has those signs on Burke Station Road, though not all of that road lies within the city limits. (My mom lives in the county not too far to the east of there, so I use that road periodically.) Off the top of my head, I can't say whether any roads in the city other than Roberts and Burke Station have those because I just haven't spent as much time in Fairfax City recently, much less on the roads other than Route 236 or Pickett Road. (Speaking of Pickett, I remember the year after I graduated from high school, I was home from college for the summer and working downtown. One morning I was headed to the Vienna Metro to go to work and I passed someone who'd been stopped for speeding. I glanced over as I passed and saw the driver who had been stopped was my high school guidance counsellor at Woodson–FCPS hadn't let out for the summer yet and she was on her way to work when she got stopped. Surprised me because back then Pickett Road was known for being one with a fair amount of speed enforcement.)
As far as speed enforcement on the Fairfax County Parkway goes, one place I frequently see a cop is at the T-intersection with Hooes Road just east of the Pohick Road interchange–if you're headed west/northbound towards Burke, you just came out of that cut underneath Sydenstricker and Gambrill Roads and then dropped down a hill across an overpass above a stream. Very easy to go very fast there. I usually set my cruise control at 55 and stay in the right lane because I see a cop there so often. Been that way for years–in the early 1990s, a friend of mine in college lived near there and I gave him a lift home once (he didn't have a car) and he warned me about it. Hasn't changed since then.
A few times recently I've seen a cop sitting in the trees just west of the interchange with Frontier Drive clocking westbound drivers, as it's not unusual to see 70+ mph there.
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 17, 2020, 09:30:29 AM
Gov. Allen wanted to raise the speed limit on the Fairfax County Parkway to 65 mph, but that proposal never got anywhere and it's never been revived by any subsequent governor. The funny thing is, back then it might have been more viable than it would be now, even though the road hasn't changed all that much except for the segment through Fair Lakes. There's so much more traffic now that the combination of the traffic lights with, in some places, limited visibility as you approach a light (example: southbound approaching Burke Centre Parkway) makes 65 non-viable, setting aside the General Assembly's overall practice of not allowing anything above 60 mph on roads with at-grade intersections. I'd say Route 123 south of the Parkway down to Lorton could easily support a higher speed limit than most of the Parkway could.
I can just imagine a 65 mph parkway, yet a rural road in the middle of nowhere still 60 mph.
They need to raise the maximum speed limit allowed on roads with at-grade intersections to 65 mph for rural areas at least.
The Parkway could reasonably be 55 mph in most places though.
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 17, 2020, 12:51:13 AM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on May 17, 2020, 12:45:00 AM
save for one - VA-286 (Fairfax County Parkway) between VA-123 (Ox Road) and I-66 where drivers seem to drive on it as if it were a freeway (it is definitely not - it is (at least informally) an expressway).
The segment from Popes Head Rd to I-66 is built to full freeway standards.
That is only about 3.5 miles.
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 17, 2020, 12:51:13 AM
The remainder is free-flowing limited access highway with a few minor at-grade intersections, plus one traffic signal at Burke Centre Pkwy, then a short segment of full freeway standard highway to past the VA-123 interchange.
Are you familiar with the at-grade signalized intersection at VA-644 (Old Keene Mill Road)? There have been more than a few
bad crashes there.
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 17, 2020, 12:51:13 AM
The speed limit should be increased from 50 mph to at least 55 mph.
I disagree, though
some sections could probably be increased to 55.
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 17, 2020, 12:51:13 AM
The ultimate goal should be of course widening to 6 lanes and eliminating the remaining at-grade intersections, replacing them with interchanges or overpasses, and providing a full 60 mph freeway between I-95 and I-66, though that will never obviously happen.
There are sections of VA-286 where that will be difficult. Just one of them is from Rolling View Drive to VA-636 (Hooes Road).