Wisconsin uses all letters however Missouri leaves out a few. The letters G,I,L,Q and S are never used. The letter R is only occasionally used and the letter X is used just once in the whole state. The other 19 are used often. Any reason for this?
Quote from: dvferyance on November 07, 2017, 05:20:09 PM
Wisconsin uses all letters however Missouri leaves out a few. The letters G,I,L,Q and S are never used. The letter R is only occasionally used and the letter X is used just once in the whole state. The other 19 are used often. Any reason for this?
Maybe to avoid confusion. S could pass for 8 at a glance , G for 6, I or L for 1 ?
R is often RA (Recreation Areas) or AR (Ozark County becomes Hwy 87 in Arkansas). Maybe single R is avoided to not be confused with P ?
Quote from: US71 on November 07, 2017, 05:46:13 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on November 07, 2017, 05:20:09 PM
Wisconsin uses all letters however Missouri leaves out a few. The letters G,I,L,Q and S are never used. The letter R is only occasionally used and the letter X is used just once in the whole state. The other 19 are used often. Any reason for this?
Maybe to avoid confusion. S could pass for 8 at a glance , G for 6, I or L for 1 ?
R is often RA (Recreation Areas) or AR (Ozark County becomes Hwy 87 in Arkansas). Maybe single R is avoided to not be confused with P ?
Although O is similar to zero and they use that. Using all letters works in Wisconsin there is no confusion I can't see why Missouri can't do the same.
Quote from: dvferyance on November 07, 2017, 07:35:04 PM
Quote from: US71 on November 07, 2017, 05:46:13 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on November 07, 2017, 05:20:09 PM
Wisconsin uses all letters however Missouri leaves out a few. The letters G,I,L,Q and S are never used. The letter R is only occasionally used and the letter X is used just once in the whole state. The other 19 are used often. Any reason for this?
Maybe to avoid confusion. S could pass for 8 at a glance , G for 6, I or L for 1 ?
R is often RA (Recreation Areas) or AR (Ozark County becomes Hwy 87 in Arkansas). Maybe single R is avoided to not be confused with P ?
Although O is similar to zero and they use that. Using all letters works in Wisconsin there is no confusion I can't see why Missouri can't do the same.
But there is NO Highway Zero, and you'll never see "5-oh" (not even in Hawaii). Five-Zero (50) yes.
Q isn't used because it could be confused for O, which is used.
I have no idea why X isn't used. The only reference to it I've seen was a line in a newspaper article where there was a flip remark about "nobody wanting to drive on an X-rated highway". My guess is that there's some weird superstition about it, like it resembling a cross/death. Or maybe to avoid confusion in MoDOT records since it might look like the highway designation was crossed out.
Theoretically, Interstate 0 would run along the Mexican border and the Gulf Coast (something that is handled by I-8, I-10 and now I-2), and US 0 would run along the Canadian border (which US 2 does), but the reason you will never see any Route/Highway 0 is because of a little thing called common sense. Most state highways start with the number 1, unless US 1 already runs through them, in which case 2 would be the first in line. In ME and NH, it would be 3, since both US 1 and US 2 exist in those states!
Quote from: Henry on November 08, 2017, 09:28:12 AM
In ME and NH, it would be 3, since both US 1 and US 2 exist in those states!
NY also has a US 1 and US 2, but NY 2 also exists (as an extension of MA 2), as US 2 is so short in NY.
NH has a US 1, US 2, US 3, AND a US 4. This means NH 5 would be first..., except NH 4 also exists, and NH 5, 6, 7, and 8 don't.
I don't see 0 being a problem in certain cases. Definitely don't use it if numbers are assigned randomly. However, if there is a grid system, like the Interstates and US routes have, 0 is fine for a similar role as a coordinate axis.
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 08, 2017, 06:09:29 AM
Q isn't used because it could be confused for O, which is used.
I have no idea why X isn't used. The only reference to it I've seen was a line in a newspaper article where there was a flip remark about "nobody wanting to drive on an X-rated highway". My guess is that there's some weird superstition about it, like it resembling a cross/death. Or maybe to avoid confusion in MoDOT records since it might look like the highway designation was crossed out.
X is used once in Macon county however it's AX not solely X. I assume this is an abbreviation for a town in the area forget the name though.
Quote from: dvferyance on November 08, 2017, 04:51:16 PM
X is used once in Macon county however it's AX not solely X. I assume this is an abbreviation for a town in the area forget the name though.
Axtell (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axtell,_Missouri)
0 is an even number
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 16, 2017, 06:24:05 PM
0 is an even number
What point are you trying to make here? Nobody here claimed that 0 was an odd number or tried to put a route numbered 0 onto a north-south corridor.
Quote from: 1 on November 16, 2017, 06:27:46 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 16, 2017, 06:24:05 PM
0 is an even number
What point are you trying to make here? Nobody here claimed that 0 was an odd number or tried to put a route numbered 0 onto a north-south corridor.
the 0 as a beltway comment
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 16, 2017, 06:29:11 PM
Quote from: 1 on November 16, 2017, 06:27:46 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 16, 2017, 06:24:05 PM
0 is an even number
What point are you trying to make here? Nobody here claimed that 0 was an odd number or tried to put a route numbered 0 onto a north-south corridor.
the 0 as a beltway comment
So is 270, but that doesn't stop Ohio from using it on a beltway.
Quote from: kphoger on November 17, 2017, 01:03:32 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 16, 2017, 06:29:11 PM
Quote from: 1 on November 16, 2017, 06:27:46 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 16, 2017, 06:24:05 PM
0 is an even number
What point are you trying to make here? Nobody here claimed that 0 was an odd number or tried to put a route numbered 0 onto a north-south corridor.
the 0 as a beltway comment
So is 270, but that doesn't stop Ohio from using it on a beltway.
Colorado and Maryland use it too not as beltways but they use it.
And Florida uses some even numbers on roads that aren't beltways too. :crazy:
Oklahoma did put 0 onto a north-south corridor, but they didn't sign it. (Then again, they put 9 on an east-west corridor, because I think initially the odd/even convention was flipped in Oklahoma, at least until the system became riddled with inconsistencies, as happens with anything ODOT touches).
Oklahoma has never had a renumbering. The original set of routes were established in 1924 and it's just organically grown from there. 9, for instance, is an original 1924 route. New routes were just assigned whatever number was available. A lot of the lower-numbered routes are on their second or third iteration, since a lot of the low 1924 routes were wiped out by US highways in 1926.
I suppose you could use 0 as an inner loop and 00 as an outer loop on a two beltway city. :)
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on November 19, 2017, 01:08:09 PM
I suppose you could use 0 as an inner loop and 00 as an outer loop on a two beltway city. :)
Oklahoma actually had two roads they wanted to use 0 on in the same county. One became 0 and the other became 0B.
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 19, 2017, 04:02:09 AM
Oklahoma has never had a renumbering. The original set of routes were established in 1924 and it's just organically grown from there. 9, for instance, is an original 1924 route. New routes were just assigned whatever number was available. A lot of the lower-numbered routes are on their second or third iteration, since a lot of the low 1924 routes were wiped out by US highways in 1926.
There was never a great renumbering, but a lot of numbers have changed over time. For example, the only highway in LeFlore County that hasn't changed is OK 9. The only highway in Tulsa County that hasn't changed is OK 11 north of the Gilcrease Expressway.
Don't forget about Highway 00 in Poteau.
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 19, 2017, 04:02:09 AM
Oklahoma has never had a renumbering. The original set of routes were established in 1924 and it's just organically grown from there. 9, for instance, is an original 1924 route. New routes were just assigned whatever number was available. A lot of the lower-numbered routes are on their second or third iteration, since a lot of the low 1924 routes were wiped out by US highways in 1926.
The only parts of OK 9 that run along the same basic corridor as they did in 1924 are from the Texas state line to Chickasha and from Stigler to Braden.
Getting the thread slightly back on topic, why does Missouri use O when it could be confused for 0?
Good question. It doesn't make much sense.
Quote from: roadguy2 on December 28, 2017, 12:49:19 AM
Getting the thread slightly back on topic, why does Missouri use O when it could be confused for 0?
Maybe because they don't have a highway Zero?
Just for comparison, in Wisconsin, there was a tendency to skip the letters "L" and "R". The rationale being that motorists might confuse the designations with their directions "left" and "right".
This hesitation over using L and R has since passed as you can find examples of each around the state. But they are almost always on county roads that became such more recently; say in the last 40 years. As an example; CTH R in Brown and Manitowoc Counties came about when I-43 was built and the old US 141 got turned back. I drive by a CTH L frequently that was part of US 51 north of Tomahawk until the late 80's.
One notices that in more rural counties that don't have enough county roads to use all 26 letters, L and R were never used. And in others, they went to using double letters instead of using L and R.
Quote from: US71 on December 28, 2017, 08:53:24 AM
Quote from: roadguy2 on December 28, 2017, 12:49:19 AM
Getting the thread slightly back on topic, why does Missouri use O when it could be confused for 0?
Maybe because they don't have a highway Zero?
That's what I was thinking. It's like asking why your car's VIN can include a zero when that could be confused with the letter O–just in reverse.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on December 28, 2017, 10:13:48 AM
Just for comparison, in Wisconsin, there was a tendency to skip the letters "L" and "R". The rationale being that motorists might confuse the designations with their directions "left" and "right".
This hesitation over using L and R has since passed as you can find examples of each around the state. But they are almost always on county roads that became such more recently; say in the last 40 years. As an example; CTH R in Brown and Manitowoc Counties came about when I-43 was built and the old US 141 got turned back. I drive by a CTH L frequently that was part of US 51 north of Tomahawk until the late 80's.
One notices that in more rural counties that don't have enough county roads to use all 26 letters, L and R were never used. And in others, they went to using double letters instead of using L and R.
This was probably because the first few editions of the MUTCD prescribed using "L" and "R" to indicate turns, usually in a smaller shield of the same type as the highway.
Here's an Oklahoma state highway example:
(https://www.aaroads.com/shields/img/OK/OK19250151i1.jpg)
Later, these were replaced by arrows.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on December 28, 2017, 10:13:48 AM
Just for comparison, in Wisconsin, there was a tendency to skip the letters "L" and "R". The rationale being that motorists might confuse the designations with their directions "left" and "right".
This hesitation over using L and R has since passed as you can find examples of each around the state. But they are almost always on county roads that became such more recently; say in the last 40 years. As an example; CTH R in Brown and Manitowoc Counties came about when I-43 was built and the old US 141 got turned back. I drive by a CTH L frequently that was part of US 51 north of Tomahawk until the late 80's.
One notices that in more rural counties that don't have enough county roads to use all 26 letters, L and R were never used. And in others, they went to using double letters instead of using L and R.
More Examples of that would be R in Dodge County fmr WI-109 turned back in the 90's. R in Waukesha County was once part of 16 until the freeway was built. L in Dodge County was once a part of 26 until the bypass was built. RR in Sheboygan County was once part of WI-144 was turned back after being disconnected to anything after I-43 was built.
Including O and OO allows MoDOT to raise its house edge on lettered routes to 5.26%.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on December 28, 2017, 10:13:48 AM
One notices that in more rural counties that don't have enough county roads to use all 26 letters, L and R were never used. And in others, they went to using double letters instead of using L and R.
I enjoy Wisconsin's triple letters. AAA on Oneida St in Green Bay. OOO west of Fond du Lac. PPP in Sheboygan Falls. I'm sure there are others (I recall a XXX, but can't remember where I saw it).
Quote from: skluth on January 04, 2018, 02:31:30 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on December 28, 2017, 10:13:48 AM
One notices that in more rural counties that don't have enough county roads to use all 26 letters, L and R were never used. And in others, they went to using double letters instead of using L and R.
I enjoy Wisconsin's triple letters. AAA on Oneida St in Green Bay. OOO west of Fond du Lac. PPP in Sheboygan Falls. I'm sure there are others (I recall a XXX, but can't remember where I saw it).
I think that triples should be reserved for VERY minor routes.
Quote from: Shoppingforfood on January 14, 2018, 10:13:33 AM
Quote from: skluth on January 04, 2018, 02:31:30 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on December 28, 2017, 10:13:48 AM
One notices that in more rural counties that don't have enough county roads to use all 26 letters, L and R were never used. And in others, they went to using double letters instead of using L and R.
I enjoy Wisconsin's triple letters. AAA on Oneida St in Green Bay. OOO west of Fond du Lac. PPP in Sheboygan Falls. I'm sure there are others (I recall a XXX, but can't remember where I saw it).
I think that triples should be reserved for VERY minor routes.
I'm not thrilled with them. They all make some sense. AAA is the main route from US/I-41 to Lambeau Field, a big destination for football fans. I can't remember where there was a AA; possibly either Ridge Road or the old Airport Drive that is now WI 172 west of US/I-41. OOO parallels OO. I don't recall when it was added. But I think it was built as an alternate for OO back in the 60's. (I was born in Green Bay in the 50's, so I'm going by memory here.) PPP is the old WI 28 on the west side of Sheboygan Falls, connecting PP (which also incorporates part of the old 28) and the newer WI-28 bypass.
I don't recall many double letter county roads other than doubled letters like OO and VV when I was a kid. There was a GV connecting County Trunks G and V, but that's the only one I recall as a teen (then a quick route from the UWGB campus to my job in De Pere). I don't know if doubled letters was policy or just convention. If it was policy, that would explain the tripled letters county routes.
I hope there is no KKK county route. Are there any?
Quote from: 1 on January 15, 2018, 12:24:49 PM
I hope there is no KKK county route. Are there any?
I think there is one K/KK junction in MIssouri
Quote from: US71 on January 15, 2018, 12:29:57 PM
Quote from: 1 on January 15, 2018, 12:24:49 PM
I hope there is no KKK county route. Are there any?
I think there is one K/KK junction in MIssouri
Laddonia, on US-54.
GSV shows every assembly being stacked, such that neither
K|KK nor
KK|K exists in-line. I haven't driven that stretch since probably 2005, so my memory of what it was like before GSV is rather fuzzy.
Quote from: 1 on January 15, 2018, 12:24:49 PM
I hope there is no KKK county route. Are there any?
There used to be:
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=43.79471,-88.66422&z=15&t=M (http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=43.79471,-88.66422&z=15&t=M)
And Google seems to think it still exists. :banghead: