How many concurrencies can you think of where the two (or more) route numbers are confusing?
I cite as my example the I-69 / 96 concurrency in Lansing, Michigan. I almost got lost through there one time because I wasn't paying strict attention to the route numbers.
Any more examples of similar situations?
When I was a kid, the I-87/I-287 concurrency made me twitch.
Quote from: inkyatari on December 06, 2017, 02:17:19 PM
How many concurrencies can you think of where the two (or more) route numbers are confusing?
I cite as my example the I-69 / 96 concurrency in Lansing, Michigan. I almost got lost through there one time because I wasn't paying strict attention to the route numbers.
Any more examples of similar situations?
I-580 West is signed concurrently with I-80 East near Oakland.
US 22/322 in PA
US 222/422 in Reading
I-41/US 41
I-74 /US 74
US 6 and US 9 in Peekskill
I remember driving with my dad on the old Pasadena Freeway in the days before Interstates were signed in metro L.A.; the segment of that freeway between the 4-Level downtown interchange and the Figueroa/Avenue 26 exit (a left-hand ramp) hosted the main route utilizing that freeway, US 66 -- but also US 6 and US 99 (with SSR 11 along for the ride). Don't have any archival pictures out there, but the BBS (overhead freeway signs were white-on-black in those days) EB ahead of that LH exit had 4 shields on it: US 6, US 99, Alternate US 66, and SSR 11; all but Alternate 66 exited the freeway then; Alternate US 66 began with the ramp and multiplexed with CA 11 up Figueroa St. (old US 66 as well). As large trucks were not allowed on the Pasadena Freeway (nee' Arroyo Seco Parkway), Alternate US 66, which eventually passed over the Colorado Street ("Suicide") series arch span west of central Pasadena was the designated truck route from central L.A. to Pasadena.
There were several four-shield "sign salads" on that Pasadena Freeway segment from 1940 to 1960; the earliest I can recall had the old-style signs with the state name and button-copy on the route numbers; the SSR 11 spade was the last iteration of the "bear" style. About 1956 or so the larger white-enameled (but also with button copy) shields simply stating "US XX" began to replace the older smaller shields; the 4-shield format (more often than not with US 66 and US 99 occupying the top row, and US 6 and SSR 11 the bottom of the quadrant) lasted until 1960, when US 99 was rerouted over Avenues 19 & 20 to get to a newly-opened segment of the Golden State Freeway from Broadway south across I-10 to Boyle St. in the Hollenbeck neighborhood, ending at what would be the north end of the East Los Angeles (I-5/I-10/CA 60/US ) interchange. The combination of all the US routes converging on this neighborhood -- the fact that one of those routes was iconic and one of the others approaching that status, and the third being the longest US highway in existence -- and with a bannered route as a bonus -- made that 2-mile highway segment unique -- especially with all the US route numbers composed of 6's and 9's.
Quote from: inkyatari on December 06, 2017, 02:17:19 PM
I-69 / 96
Yeah, I get these mixed up very easily–just looking at a map, even. If I were in charge of posting shields at their interchanges, I would probably have dreams at night about putting them on the wrong signs.
Quote from: kphoger on December 07, 2017, 10:02:50 AM
Quote from: inkyatari on December 06, 2017, 02:17:19 PM
I-69 / 96
Yeah, I get these mixed up very easily–just looking at a map, even. If I were in charge of posting shields at their interchanges, I would probably have dreams at night about putting them on the wrong signs.
One year, when I was 17, I got a Trivial Pursuit game for Christmas. Now back then, the front and back side of the cards had a little number in the lower left corner. Apparently at the factory the idea was to match the numbers on the front with the numbers on the back. One day while playing, I read the question "What does the word SPAM stand for?" The answer on the back was, and I am not making this up, "Leon Trotsky." I looked as the cards and noted that the numbers on the front and back were wrong. Apparently someone mistook a lot of the 9's, 6's, 0's and 8's on a bunch of the cards that had at least two of these numbers. I think I had a total of 100 defective cards out of 1000.
I-95 / NJ Turnpike. Actually it's the non-concurrency that's more confusing than the concurrency. Things will only get worse when the PA Turnpike interchange is complete
Don't know why but the I 90/80 concurrency was confusing when I was much younger. Otherwise any route that has a concurrency with its parent.
CA 108 takes some pretty lengthy multiplexes east of Modesto to reach Sonora on CA 120 and CA 49. I always thought it would be better to terminate CA 108 in Sonora and have two renumber the two non-multiplexed sections (one near Chinese Camp and the other near Modesto) to something else to simplify things.
Quote from: bzakharin on December 12, 2017, 03:30:31 PM
I-95 / NJ Turnpike. Actually it's the non-concurrency that's more confusing than the concurrency. Things will only get worse when the PA Turnpike interchange is complete
Most (non roadgeek)people already think the turnpike is 95.. the 95 shields at exit 6 will be a mindfuck for some people.. I can see them stopping right on the shoulder in their bewilderment.
NJ should make an exception to the non duplication rule and make the turnpike SR95 and put up the circle signs. And continue as Delaware 95, Delaware already has duplicated routes. In NJ it would just be called Route 95 by everyone anyway, shields don't matter
Z981
The wrong way US 41/411 concurrency in Georgia has probably caught out more than one person.
Quote from: jwolfer on December 13, 2017, 11:13:48 AM
Quote from: bzakharin on December 12, 2017, 03:30:31 PM
I-95 / NJ Turnpike. Actually it's the non-concurrency that's more confusing than the concurrency. Things will only get worse when the PA Turnpike interchange is complete
Most (non roadgeek)people already think the turnpike is 95.. the 95 shields at exit 6 will be a mindfuck for some people.. I can see them stopping right on the shoulder in their bewilderment.
NJ should make an exception to the non duplication rule and make the turnpike SR95 and put up the circle signs. And continue as Delaware 95, Delaware already has duplicated routes. In NJ it would just be called Route 95 by everyone anyway, shields don't matter
Z981
And this will help how? You're going to have a choice of two 95s going south *and* north?
I didn't realize I-190 was concurrent with NY-324 on the S Grand Island bridge until a few years ago.
Quote from: Ga293 on December 14, 2017, 06:22:31 AM
The wrong way US 41/411 concurrency in Georgia has probably caught out more than one person.
I was always fascinated by the wrong-way concurrency of 411 and 441 between Knoxville and Sevierville.
Apparently, map makers were as well. Back in the days when US 411 ran from Newport to Jonesborough and then was concurrent with US 11E up to Bristol, one map maker showed one of the route markers as US 441 instead of 411. That typo persisted for years.
Quote from: inkyatari on December 06, 2017, 02:17:19 PM
How many concurrencies can you think of where the two (or more) route numbers are confusing?
I cite as my example the I-69 / 96 concurrency in Lansing, Michigan. I almost got lost through there one time because I wasn't paying strict attention to the route numbers.
Any more examples of similar situations?
That's kind of a surprising one. If you pay attention to the control cities it helps out a little bit but I don't think that stretch is too bad. You just have to look for Grand Rapids, Flint, Fort Wayne or Detroit on the control signs. It's actually the only multiplex in the country where the numbers are the same but just flipped around.
I can't recall any that are really confusing though. Possibly I-80/90 running across most of Indiana and Ohio and then 90 breaks off before Chicago and 94 joins 80 for a multiplex. I can see where that one is confusing.
Or how about any wrong way multplex where you are traveling say north and for some reason a route heading south is multiplexed or east and west same thing. I've seen this before and it's probably confusing due to the fact that if it's dark out and you see both north and south you'd be confused on which direction you were really going.
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 14, 2017, 11:16:18 AM
Or how about any wrong way multplex where you are traveling say north and for some reason a route heading south is multiplexed or east and west same thing. I've seen this before and it's probably confusing due to the fact that if it's dark out and you see both north and south you'd be confused on which direction you were really going.
It's even better when it's a N/S wrong-way concurrency but the road itself is E/W aligned. (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5095279,-93.550745,14.75z)
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 14, 2017, 11:16:18 AM
Or how about any wrong way multplex where you are traveling say north and for some reason a route heading south is multiplexed or east and west same thing. I've seen this before and it's probably confusing due to the fact that if it's dark out and you see both north and south you'd be confused on which direction you were really going.
There's one on IL where RT 47 goes North, US 20 goes west, and IL 72 goes east.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0826554,-88.4591797,15.25z
Quote from: jwolfer on December 13, 2017, 11:13:48 AM
Quote from: bzakharin on December 12, 2017, 03:30:31 PM
I-95 / NJ Turnpike. Actually it's the non-concurrency that's more confusing than the concurrency. Things will only get worse when the PA Turnpike interchange is complete
Most (non roadgeek)people already think the turnpike is 95.. the 95 shields at exit 6 will be a mindfuck for some people.. I can see them stopping right on the shoulder in their bewilderment.
NJ should make an exception to the non duplication rule and make the turnpike SR95 and put up the circle signs. And continue as Delaware 95, Delaware already has duplicated routes. In NJ it would just be called Route 95 by everyone anyway, shields don't matter
Z981
IIRC, at one time, NJTP posted "TO 95" markers. Perhaps that's a solution.
Quote from: inkyatari on December 14, 2017, 11:33:47 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 14, 2017, 11:16:18 AM
Or how about any wrong way multplex where you are traveling say north and for some reason a route heading south is multiplexed or east and west same thing. I've seen this before and it's probably confusing due to the fact that if it's dark out and you see both north and south you'd be confused on which direction you were really going.
There's one on IL where RT 47 goes North, US 20 goes west, and IL 72 goes east.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0826554,-88.4591797,15.25z
Lol I haven't even clicked your link yet and I imagine your talking about Starks. I've been through that one before. If I remember correctly I was traveling WB on the Tollway and got off at the exit where the Outlet Mall is at but at that time there wasn't access to the WB Tollway from that exit so I had to drive down RT 47 to US 20 west and take US 20 back to the Tollway. I've dealt with RT 72 in the Chicago area as well.
I guess the reason that I don't get I-69/96 confused is because I'm use to that stretch of highway traveling to Chicago and back all the time. Coming north on I-69 you enter the multiplex with I-96 which at the south end you have a choice of staying on I-96 WB/I-69 NB or going to I-96 EB towards Detroit. At the northern end of it you have I-96 going west towards Grand Rapids and I-69 going east towards Flint and Port Huron. Like I said before you just have to pay attention to the control cities which are correct.
Quote from: hbelkins on December 14, 2017, 10:40:18 AM
I was always fascinated by the wrong-way concurrency of 411 and 441 between Knoxville and Sevierville.
This.
Also, US141 and US41 north of Green Bay, Wisconsin. You'd think US41 would be the direct route to Marquette and US141 would be an auxiliary branch winding around to the east. NOPE. Plus, it's all the 14141414141414141 going on.
Quote from: paulthemapguy on December 14, 2017, 12:14:30 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 14, 2017, 10:40:18 AM
I was always fascinated by the wrong-way concurrency of 411 and 441 between Knoxville and Sevierville.
This.
Also, US141 and US41 north of Green Bay, Wisconsin. You'd think US41 would be the direct route to Marquette and US141 would be an auxiliary branch winding around to the east. NOPE. Plus, it's all the 14141414141414141 going on.
Just so you know US 41 is the direct route to Marquette from Green Bay. US 141 doesn't come within 50 miles of Marquette.
The thing that gets me about US 41 in Michigan is that it takes an inland route instead of hugging the water which is what M-35 does. It seems like US 41 should run along the water and M-35 should be the inland route.
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 14, 2017, 02:37:18 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on December 14, 2017, 12:14:30 PM
You'd think US41 would be the direct route to Marquette and US141 would be an auxiliary branch winding around to the east. NOPE
Just so you know US 41 is the direct route to Marquette from Green Bay. US 141 doesn't come within 50 miles of Marquette.
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 14, 2017, 02:53:59 PM
The thing that gets me about US 41 in Michigan is that it takes an inland route instead of hugging the water which is what M-35 does. It seems like US 41 should run along the water and M-35 should be the inland route.
US-41 was already an established route. That section of M-35 wasn't designated until four years after US-41.
plus wasn't 41 originally supposed to run a more direct route to Marquette which was axed?
Quote from: kphoger on December 14, 2017, 03:10:48 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 14, 2017, 02:37:18 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on December 14, 2017, 12:14:30 PM
You'd think US41 would be the direct route to Marquette and US141 would be an auxiliary branch winding around to the east. NOPE
Just so you know US 41 is the direct route to Marquette from Green Bay. US 141 doesn't come within 50 miles of Marquette.
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 14, 2017, 02:53:59 PM
The thing that gets me about US 41 in Michigan is that it takes an inland route instead of hugging the water which is what M-35 does. It seems like US 41 should run along the water and M-35 should be the inland route.
US-41 was already an established route. That section of M-35 wasn't designated until four years after US-41.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on December 14, 2017, 03:40:03 PM
plus wasn't 41 originally supposed to run a more direct route to Marquette which was axed?
Yep, north of Powers, it would have gone directly north to Marquette, but that didn't happen.
The map below is from 1926. From Menominee to Powers the route is correct, but the path north from that point never came into existence. M-35 from Menominee to Escanaba wasn't designated until 1930.
(https://i.imgur.com/bhrIG52.png)
Any concurrency where one route goes North and the other South and vice-versa, or one East and the other West and vice-versa.
Quote from: kphoger on December 14, 2017, 03:10:48 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 14, 2017, 02:37:18 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on December 14, 2017, 12:14:30 PM
You'd think US41 would be the direct route to Marquette and US141 would be an auxiliary branch winding around to the east. NOPE
Just so you know US 41 is the direct route to Marquette from Green Bay. US 141 doesn't come within 50 miles of Marquette.
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 14, 2017, 02:53:59 PM
The thing that gets me about US 41 in Michigan is that it takes an inland route instead of hugging the water which is what M-35 does. It seems like US 41 should run along the water and M-35 should be the inland route.
US-41 was already an established route. That section of M-35 wasn't designated until four years after US-41.
That should have been an obvious change in routing. US 41 between Menominee and Powers was originally M-15 and I don't think M-35's stretch between Escanaba and Menominee is much different in design than US 41 between Escanaba and Menominee. Under AASHTO guidelines, US Highways are to follow the most direct path between two locations which is not the case here.
Also, speaking of US41 and US141...the concurrency is completely unnecessary! US141 doesn't continue to the south at all, so just end it at Abrams! Same with I-41 south of Milwaukee. What the hell are you thinking, Wisconsin!? It's like they know they have a reputation as The Concurrency State and they're trying super-hard to live up to it. :-D
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on December 14, 2017, 03:40:03 PM
plus wasn't 41 originally supposed to run a more direct route to Marquette which was axed?
Yes that would be north of Powers where US 41 turns to go towards Escanaba instead it would have connected using several county roads and most likely up current M-553.
US 41 must have to go through Marquette though since it is not the most direct route to the Keweenaw Peninsula, it runs east and west for about 50 miles between Marquette and the northern terminus of US 141 multiplexed with M-28. I really think US 41 spends more time doing east and west jogs in Michigan than it does running north and south.
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 14, 2017, 04:27:10 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 14, 2017, 03:10:48 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 14, 2017, 02:37:18 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on December 14, 2017, 12:14:30 PM
You'd think US41 would be the direct route to Marquette and US141 would be an auxiliary branch winding around to the east. NOPE
Just so you know US 41 is the direct route to Marquette from Green Bay. US 141 doesn't come within 50 miles of Marquette.
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 14, 2017, 02:53:59 PM
The thing that gets me about US 41 in Michigan is that it takes an inland route instead of hugging the water which is what M-35 does. It seems like US 41 should run along the water and M-35 should be the inland route.
US-41 was already an established route. That section of M-35 wasn't designated until four years after US-41.
That should have been an obvious change in routing. US 41 between Menominee and Powers was originally M-15 and I don't think M-35's stretch between Escanaba and Menominee is much different in design than US 41 between Escanaba and Menominee. Under AASHTO guidelines, US Highways are to follow the most direct path between two locations which is not the case here.
To what scale is that guidance? Between every little town? Between major cities? Something in between? I'm curious to know how that's worded, and also how closely it's followed.
(ps – US-101 sure doesn't follow the shortest route from Aberdeen to Olympia.)
Quote from: kphoger on December 14, 2017, 04:38:14 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 14, 2017, 04:27:10 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 14, 2017, 03:10:48 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 14, 2017, 02:37:18 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on December 14, 2017, 12:14:30 PM
You'd think US41 would be the direct route to Marquette and US141 would be an auxiliary branch winding around to the east. NOPE
Just so you know US 41 is the direct route to Marquette from Green Bay. US 141 doesn't come within 50 miles of Marquette.
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 14, 2017, 02:53:59 PM
The thing that gets me about US 41 in Michigan is that it takes an inland route instead of hugging the water which is what M-35 does. It seems like US 41 should run along the water and M-35 should be the inland route.
US-41 was already an established route. That section of M-35 wasn't designated until four years after US-41.
That should have been an obvious change in routing. US 41 between Menominee and Powers was originally M-15 and I don't think M-35's stretch between Escanaba and Menominee is much different in design than US 41 between Escanaba and Menominee. Under AASHTO guidelines, US Highways are to follow the most direct path between two locations which is not the case here.
To what scale is that guidance? Between every little town? Between major cities? Something in between? I'm curious to know how that's worded, and also how closely it's followed.
(ps – US-101 sure doesn't follow the shortest route from Aberdeen to Olympia.)
It's generally followed, but there are exceptions, like US 1 following the coast in CT and RI instead of going inland, US 4 having a shortcut using NY 7/VT 9/NH 9, US 101 as mentioned, and the ridiculous US 311.
NE2 made a thread about all indirect 2-digit US routes, but I can't find it.
Quote from: kphoger on December 14, 2017, 04:38:14 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 14, 2017, 04:27:10 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 14, 2017, 03:10:48 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 14, 2017, 02:37:18 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on December 14, 2017, 12:14:30 PM
You'd think US41 would be the direct route to Marquette and US141 would be an auxiliary branch winding around to the east. NOPE
Just so you know US 41 is the direct route to Marquette from Green Bay. US 141 doesn't come within 50 miles of Marquette.
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 14, 2017, 02:53:59 PM
The thing that gets me about US 41 in Michigan is that it takes an inland route instead of hugging the water which is what M-35 does. It seems like US 41 should run along the water and M-35 should be the inland route.
US-41 was already an established route. That section of M-35 wasn't designated until four years after US-41.
That should have been an obvious change in routing. US 41 between Menominee and Powers was originally M-15 and I don't think M-35's stretch between Escanaba and Menominee is much different in design than US 41 between Escanaba and Menominee. Under AASHTO guidelines, US Highways are to follow the most direct path between two locations which is not the case here.
To what scale is that guidance? Between every little town? Between major cities? Something in between? I'm curious to know how that's worded, and also how closely it's followed.
(ps – US-101 sure doesn't follow the shortest route from Aberdeen to Olympia.)
I would guess that it should follow it's guidelines wherever possible. M-35 has a strange history anyway it as originally suppose to go through the Huron Mountains and run to Ontonagon but those plans were shelved by help of Henry Ford, who used that to gain membership to the Huron Mountain Club. There is a stretch of highway called Blind 35 northwest of Marquette that is a dirt road and just ends up dead ending after several miles.
Your US 101 reference certainly is on point. I recently looked up how far it was between Aberdeen and Olympia using US 101 and it's nearly 300 miles. I just never realized how big the Olympic Peninsula is.
Quote from: 1 on December 14, 2017, 04:42:31 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 14, 2017, 04:38:14 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 14, 2017, 04:27:10 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 14, 2017, 03:10:48 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 14, 2017, 02:37:18 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on December 14, 2017, 12:14:30 PM
You'd think US41 would be the direct route to Marquette and US141 would be an auxiliary branch winding around to the east. NOPE
Just so you know US 41 is the direct route to Marquette from Green Bay. US 141 doesn't come within 50 miles of Marquette.
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 14, 2017, 02:53:59 PM
The thing that gets me about US 41 in Michigan is that it takes an inland route instead of hugging the water which is what M-35 does. It seems like US 41 should run along the water and M-35 should be the inland route.
US-41 was already an established route. That section of M-35 wasn't designated until four years after US-41.
That should have been an obvious change in routing. US 41 between Menominee and Powers was originally M-15 and I don't think M-35's stretch between Escanaba and Menominee is much different in design than US 41 between Escanaba and Menominee. Under AASHTO guidelines, US Highways are to follow the most direct path between two locations which is not the case here.
To what scale is that guidance? Between every little town? Between major cities? Something in between? I'm curious to know how that's worded, and also how closely it's followed.
(ps – US-101 sure doesn't follow the shortest route from Aberdeen to Olympia.)
It's generally followed, but there are exceptions, like US 1 following the coast in CT and RI instead of going inland, US 4 having a shortcut using NY 7/VT 9/NH 9, US 101 as mentioned, and the ridiculous US 311.
NE2 made a thread about all indirect 2-digit US routes, but I can't find it.
I believe that US 311 is considered an alternate route to US 220 which does a much more direct route than US 311 does.
Another thing I've been wondering is how does US 1 get west of several other north-south routes when it's suppose to be the eastern most route.
Quote from: paulthemapguy on December 14, 2017, 04:33:47 PM
Also, speaking of US41 and US141...the concurrency is completely unnecessary! US141 doesn't continue to the south at all, so just end it at Abrams! Same with I-41 south of Milwaukee. What the hell are you thinking, Wisconsin!? It's like they know they have a reputation as The Concurrency State and they're trying super-hard to live up to it. :-D
I know it really doesn't go anywhere but it does break off from US 41 again and run through Green Bay. I would just renumber that as a state highway though and also end it at Abrams.
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 14, 2017, 04:51:26 PM
Another thing I've been wondering is how does US 1 get west of several other north-south routes when it's suppose to be the eastern most route.
1 is the easternmost
major US route; it goes from Maine to Florida. 13 and 17 are in or near the proper place in the grid, as US 3, 5, 7, and 9 are farther east, and US 11 violates the grid (making it not the fault of US 13 or US 17).
Quote from: 1 on December 14, 2017, 04:42:31 PM
NE2 made a thread about all indirect 2-digit US routes, but I can't find it.
Don't remember that one. Hmmmmm..... All I can find is one about indirect 2-digit Interstates;
NE2 posted several times on it, but he didn't create it.
Quote from: 1 on December 14, 2017, 04:42:31 PM
NE2 made a thread about all indirect 2-digit US routes, but I can't find it.
This one (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=9540.0).
In which case, the following snip from
NE2's original post is relevant:
Quote from: NE2 on May 26, 2013, 03:55:58 AM
Current US 41 to Escanaba was all paved in 1926, but M-35 was not.
The US 31/31A/41/41A/431 piggyback in Nashville, Tennessee has the potential to be very confusing.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gribblenation.com%2Ftnpics%2Fgallery%2Fus31-31-41-41a-431-summa.jpg&hash=19c531717bbd1e791fa017be0e780e258772eb9d)
Quote from: 1 on December 14, 2017, 04:56:42 PM
US 11 violates the grid
Yes, but not as much as you think. It violates by less than a mile. If you consider its northern end is in Rouses Point, NY and you go by the northern end of routes in fitting the grid, it ends only about a mile east of US 9's northern end. Otherwise, Rouses Point is farther east than Morrisville, PA (US 13's northern end), Rochester (US 15's historical northern end), and Winchester, VA (US 17's northern end). US 59 is a true violator. It's southern and northern end is farther west than the southern and northern ends of both US 61 and US 71.
Quote from: bugo on December 14, 2017, 07:53:01 PM
The US 31/31A/41/41A/431 piggyback in Nashville, Tennessee has the potential to be very confusing.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gribblenation.com%2Ftnpics%2Fgallery%2Fus31-31-41-41a-431-summa.jpg&hash=19c531717bbd1e791fa017be0e780e258772eb9d)
Excessive much? Just saying about how many US routes are here.
I completely forgot about the cluster-$@%$ that is Dothan, AL:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4161/33957159853_c71e6f6630_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/TJFjzk)231USc (https://flic.kr/p/TJFjzk) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr
Quote from: bugo on December 14, 2017, 07:53:01 PM
The US 31/31A/41/41A/431 piggyback in Nashville, Tennessee has the potential to be very confusing.
IMO Alt US 31 and Alt US 41 can be omitted, since this is already plain US 31 and plain US 41. However I'd throw an US 341 there :sombrero:.
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on December 15, 2017, 09:25:26 AM
Quote from: bugo on December 14, 2017, 07:53:01 PM
The US 31/31A/41/41A/431 piggyback in Nashville, Tennessee has the potential to be very confusing.
IMO Alt US 31 and Alt US 41 can be omitted, since this is already plain US 31 and plain US 41. However I'd throw an US 341 there :sombrero:.
And US 43. Interestingly, extending US 43 north and US 341 northwest would put them both in or near Nashville. US 341 would need to bend a bit (it's currently WNW-ESE), but not much.
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on December 15, 2017, 09:25:26 AM
Quote from: bugo on December 14, 2017, 07:53:01 PM
The US 31/31A/41/41A/431 piggyback in Nashville, Tennessee has the potential to be very confusing.
IMO Alt US 31 and Alt US 41 can be omitted, since this is already plain US 31 and plain US 41. However I'd throw an US 341 there :sombrero:.
Doesn't US 31A end a few blocks south of here anyway? (It looks like the photo is at Broadway/US 70.) And I guess they decided it made more sense to just have 41 and 41A run together instead of having a 41A end on the south side of downtown and then another one start just a mile and a half up the road.
And at least this isn't over on the other side of the river where 31 splits up into 31W and 31E. :spin:
Quote from: bzakharin on December 14, 2017, 09:20:11 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on December 13, 2017, 11:13:48 AM
Quote from: bzakharin on December 12, 2017, 03:30:31 PM
I-95 / NJ Turnpike. Actually it's the non-concurrency that's more confusing than the concurrency. Things will only get worse when the PA Turnpike interchange is complete
Most (non roadgeek)people already think the turnpike is 95.. the 95 shields at exit 6 will be a mindfuck for some people.. I can see them stopping right on the shoulder in their bewilderment.
NJ should make an exception to the non duplication rule and make the turnpike SR95 and put up the circle signs. And continue as Delaware 95, Delaware already has duplicated routes. In NJ it would just be called Route 95 by everyone anyway, shields don't matter
Z981
And this will help how? You're going to have a choice of two 95s going south *and* north?
I could see the confusion I'd driving north from Philadelphia thru exit 6.. one would hope people would realize they are going north toward NYC.. however I don't give people that much credit
It would be like US 95 and AZ SR 95..
Z981
Quote from: 1 on December 14, 2017, 04:56:42 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 14, 2017, 04:51:26 PM
Another thing I've been wondering is how does US 1 get west of several other north-south routes when it's suppose to be the eastern most route.
1 is the easternmost major US route; it goes from Maine to Florida. 13 and 17 are in or near the proper place in the grid, as US 3, 5, 7, and 9 are farther east, and US 11 violates the grid (making it not the fault of US 13 or US 17).
The coast is not exactly straight north south.. Jacksonville FL is the longitude of Cleveland.
US1 is de facto East-West from Providence to NYC
US1 follows the east coast/fall line... so i don't consider it horrible violation of the grid. Doing the best with a square grid on a weird trapezoidal shape
Z981
Hawkinsville, GA is got a bunch and the signing there is more confusing as the truck routes, plus GDOT's typical way of signing and implementing too many state routes does not help.
Any one where you are simultaneously going "North" and "South" or "East" and "West". The first one that comes to mind is I-77/I-81 in Virginia.
I think anything where a bannered and non-bannered route exist together, like US 220 Alt/US 460 in Roanoke, VA, can be confusing.
Nexus 6P
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on December 14, 2017, 11:30:06 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 14, 2017, 11:16:18 AM
Or how about any wrong way multplex where you are traveling say north and for some reason a route heading south is multiplexed or east and west same thing. I've seen this before and it's probably confusing due to the fact that if it's dark out and you see both north and south you'd be confused on which direction you were really going.
It's even better when it's a N/S wrong-way concurrency but the road itself is E/W aligned. (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5095279,-93.550745,14.75z)
Ah, yes. Fremont, Ohio: https://goo.gl/maps/FzPyn5rqrXN2
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on December 14, 2017, 11:30:06 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 14, 2017, 11:16:18 AM
Or how about any wrong way multplex where you are traveling say north and for some reason a route heading south is multiplexed or east and west same thing. I've seen this before and it's probably confusing due to the fact that if it's dark out and you see both north and south you'd be confused on which direction you were really going.
It's even better when it's a N/S wrong-way concurrency but the road itself is E/W aligned. (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5095279,-93.550745,14.75z)
Really? That seems like it'd be the easiest type of wrong way concurrency to understand.
As an example of where this is not the case, I-25 has a wrong-way concurrency with US 285 near Santa Fe, NM. You are traveling on I-25 towards Santa Fe. Your compass says North, and you are going North on US 285, but South on I-25! (To add to the confusion, you are also going west on US 84.)
I-80 East / I-580 West in Emeryville/Berkeley/Albany/El Cerrito
I actually enjoy the dissonance, but it's confusing when I have to explain it to others...
California 88 and 89 have a short concurrency.
Also 101/1. Are they even concurrent? Doesn't 1 just have gaps?
US 221, 321, and 421 in Boone, North Carolina.
Quote from: OrangeLantern on January 09, 2018, 07:54:27 PM
California 88 and 89 have a short concurrency.
Also 101/1. Are they even concurrent? Doesn't 1 just have gaps?
US-101 and CA-1 are concurrent for a stretch from Ventura to a little north of Santa Barbara (and just misses having one with I-10 too).
Coming SE --> NW through Chicagoland, you start off with 80/90. Then 80 leaves 90 and joins 94. Then 94 leaves 80 and heads into the city where it joins 90, and at the same spot where 94 leaves 80, 294 joins 80 for a few miles, then they split. 90 and 94 also split apart north of downtown.
This is of course why the locals all call roads by names instead of numbers, but it can get confusing for people passing through or new to the area.
Quote from: inkyatari on December 06, 2017, 02:17:19 PM
How many concurrencies can you think of where the two (or more) route numbers are confusing?
I cite as my example the I-69 / 96 concurrency in Lansing, Michigan. I almost got lost through there one time because I wasn't paying strict attention to the route numbers.
Any more examples of similar situations?
This can really be problematic for dyslexic sex maniacs.
Quote from: Terry Shea on January 10, 2018, 05:31:37 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on December 06, 2017, 02:17:19 PM
How many concurrencies can you think of where the two (or more) route numbers are confusing?
I cite as my example the I-69 / 96 concurrency in Lansing, Michigan. I almost got lost through there one time because I wasn't paying strict attention to the route numbers.
Any more examples of similar situations?
This can really be problematic for dyslexic sex maniacs.
Dinner for 4
Quote from: pdx-wanderer on January 09, 2018, 10:36:34 PM
Quote from: OrangeLantern on January 09, 2018, 07:54:27 PM
California 88 and 89 have a short concurrency.
Also 101/1. Are they even concurrent? Doesn't 1 just have gaps?
US-101 and CA-1 are concurrent for a stretch from Ventura to a little north of Santa Barbara (and just misses having one with I-10 too).
they're not signed though, I think
Quote from: roadguy2 on January 08, 2018, 12:30:21 AM
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on December 14, 2017, 11:30:06 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 14, 2017, 11:16:18 AM
Or how about any wrong way multplex where you are traveling say north and for some reason a route heading south is multiplexed or east and west same thing. I've seen this before and it's probably confusing due to the fact that if it's dark out and you see both north and south you'd be confused on which direction you were really going.
It's even better when it's a N/S wrong-way concurrency but the road itself is E/W aligned. (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5095279,-93.550745,14.75z)
Really? That seems like it'd be the easiest type of wrong way concurrency to understand.
As an example of where this is not the case, I-25 has a wrong-way concurrency with US 285 near Santa Fe, NM. You are traveling on I-25 towards Santa Fe. Your compass says North, and you are going North on US 285, but South on I-25! (To add to the confusion, you are also going west on US 84.)
It's also secret US 85.
Quote from: bugo on January 10, 2018, 09:04:47 PM
Quote from: roadguy2 on January 08, 2018, 12:30:21 AM
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on December 14, 2017, 11:30:06 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 14, 2017, 11:16:18 AM
Or how about any wrong way multplex where you are traveling say north and for some reason a route heading south is multiplexed or east and west same thing. I've seen this before and it's probably confusing due to the fact that if it's dark out and you see both north and south you'd be confused on which direction you were really going.
It's even better when it's a N/S wrong-way concurrency but the road itself is E/W aligned. (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5095279,-93.550745,14.75z)
Really? That seems like it’d be the easiest type of wrong way concurrency to understand.
As an example of where this is not the case, I-25 has a wrong-way concurrency with US 285 near Santa Fe, NM. You are traveling on I-25 towards Santa Fe. Your compass says North, and you are going North on US 285, but South on I-25! (To add to the confusion, you are also going west on US 84.)
It's also secret US 85.
Imagine if that were actually signed: “North 85/South 285”. Throw in the I-25 and US 84 for good measure. Now
that would be confusing.
Quote from: formulanone on January 09, 2018, 08:39:00 PM
US 221, 321, and 421 in Boone, North Carolina.
The three routes never actually run together, nor meet at the same intersection. However, there are concurrencies of 221/321, 321/421, and 221/421 (221 North/421 South). So it can still get confusing.
All of the surface routes in Pawtucket, RI. Seriously, RI-114 here is the worst of a state that already has plenty of knuckleheaded routes.
Quote from: Skye on January 05, 2018, 08:18:33 PM
Any one where you are simultaneously going "North" and "South" or "East" and "West". The first one that comes to mind is I-77/I-81 in Virginia.
Funny, when I saw the thread title, that was my first thought as well. It doesn't get much more complicated than going opposite directions at once :D
I-87/I-287 was mentioned. It's not that confusing to me, but its just weird for a 3di and its parent to have such a long multiplex. Not a huge fan of that arrangement.
Quote from: Beeper1 on January 11, 2018, 09:27:41 PM
All of the surface routes in Pawtucket, RI. Seriously, RI-114 here is the worst of a state that already has plenty of knuckleheaded routes.
What?
Which
highway concurrencies (http://bfy.tw/G17G) are confusing in Pawtucket?
RI-114 has no concurrency in Pawtucket at all.
Quote from: kphoger on January 12, 2018, 01:01:57 PM
Quote from: Beeper1 on January 11, 2018, 09:27:41 PM
All of the surface routes in Pawtucket, RI. Seriously, RI-114 here is the worst of a state that already has plenty of knuckleheaded routes.
What?
Which highway concurrencies (http://bfy.tw/G17G) are confusing in Pawtucket?
RI-114 has no concurrency in Pawtucket at all.
RI 114 has a wrong-way concurrency with
itself.
Quote from: 1 on January 12, 2018, 01:03:59 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 12, 2018, 01:01:57 PM
Quote from: Beeper1 on January 11, 2018, 09:27:41 PM
All of the surface routes in Pawtucket, RI. Seriously, RI-114 here is the worst of a state that already has plenty of knuckleheaded routes.
What?
Which highway concurrencies (http://bfy.tw/G17G) are confusing in Pawtucket?
RI-114 has no concurrency in Pawtucket at all.
RI 114 has a wrong-way concurrency with itself.
OK, I see it now.
Quote from: kphoger on January 12, 2018, 02:12:35 PM
Quote from: 1 on January 12, 2018, 01:03:59 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 12, 2018, 01:01:57 PM
Quote from: Beeper1 on January 11, 2018, 09:27:41 PM
All of the surface routes in Pawtucket, RI. Seriously, RI-114 here is the worst of a state that already has plenty of knuckleheaded routes.
What?
Which highway concurrencies (http://bfy.tw/G17G) are confusing in Pawtucket?
RI-114 has no concurrency in Pawtucket at all.
RI 114 has a wrong-way concurrency with itself.
OK, I see it now.
Help me here, I'm not seeing it...
Quote from: inkyatari on January 12, 2018, 02:29:25 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 12, 2018, 02:12:35 PM
Quote from: 1 on January 12, 2018, 01:03:59 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 12, 2018, 01:01:57 PM
Quote from: Beeper1 on January 11, 2018, 09:27:41 PM
All of the surface routes in Pawtucket, RI. Seriously, RI-114 here is the worst of a state that already has plenty of knuckleheaded routes.
What?
Which highway concurrencies (http://bfy.tw/G17G) are confusing in Pawtucket?
RI-114 has no concurrency in Pawtucket at all.
RI 114 has a wrong-way concurrency with itself.
OK, I see it now.
Help me here, I'm not seeing it...
Google Maps doesn't show it and signage is severely lacking, which is probably why. RI-114 has a crazily circuitous route through town, such that both directions of travel officially use
the same short one-way segment of Broadway (https://goo.gl/maps/3YfJrcijc8k).
^ Not unlike US 60 in Newport News, VA.
Quote from: roadguy2 on January 08, 2018, 12:30:21 AM
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on December 14, 2017, 11:30:06 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 14, 2017, 11:16:18 AM
Or how about any wrong way multplex where you are traveling say north and for some reason a route heading south is multiplexed or east and west same thing. I've seen this before and it's probably confusing due to the fact that if it's dark out and you see both north and south you'd be confused on which direction you were really going.
It's even better when it's a N/S wrong-way concurrency but the road itself is E/W aligned. (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5095279,-93.550745,14.75z)
Really? That seems like it'd be the easiest type of wrong way concurrency to understand.
As an example of where this is not the case, I-25 has a wrong-way concurrency with US 285 near Santa Fe, NM. You are traveling on I-25 towards Santa Fe. Your compass says North, and you are going North on US 285, but South on I-25! (To add to the confusion, you are also going west on US 84.)
That's what I was thinking too. There is a wrong way multiplex in Bay City, Michigan. M-13 and M-84 multiplex as a wrong way and the road is running east and west.
Quote from: kphoger on January 12, 2018, 02:38:16 PM
Google Maps doesn't show it and signage is severely lacking, which is probably why. RI-114 has a crazily circuitous route through town, such that both directions of travel officially use the same short one-way segment of Broadway (https://goo.gl/maps/3YfJrcijc8k).
OpenStreetMap (https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/41.8760/-71.3807) shows this clearly. Personally I would realign Northbound RI 114 to go directly from School St to Broadway, and Southbound RI 114 along Roosevelt Ave, Main St and Water St, even if that means losing a direct connection to I-95.
Quote from: OrangeLantern on January 10, 2018, 08:46:59 PM
Quote from: pdx-wanderer on January 09, 2018, 10:36:34 PM
Quote from: OrangeLantern on January 09, 2018, 07:54:27 PM
California 88 and 89 have a short concurrency.
Also 101/1. Are they even concurrent? Doesn't 1 just have gaps?
US-101 and CA-1 are concurrent for a stretch from Ventura to a little north of Santa Barbara (and just misses having one with I-10 too).
they're not signed though, I think
Legislatively, there are no concurrencies of US 101 and CA 1; 1 ends at one end of the "concurrency" and begins at the other. Between Oxnard (previously from Oxnard Blvd. but ostensibly now at Rice Avenue, although signage there doesn't seem to be extant) and the Seacliff exit above Ventura is a "quasi-concurrency", with a couple of BGS's showing both route numbers, but no reassurance shields along the road. Between Rincon and Las Cruces (through Santa Barbara) there is no actual concurrency but simply a gap in CA 1. The concurrency of the two routes further north between Pismo Beach and San Luis Obispo is fully signed with both routes' shields, as is the concurrency north of the Golden Gate Bridge in Marin County. As with most things Caltrans, actual signage practice is largely dependent upon the whims and policies of the individual district.
This may be a stretch, but the WA-167/WA-161 concurrency (https://goo.gl/GkmJZA) east of Tacoma can get a little confusing. From a distance, the 7 and 1 don't look that different. But worse, Hwy 161 and 167, while both running north-south, run in different directions through here. The concurrency is positioned east/west. So while travelling EB, you're going south on 167 but north on 161. Travelling WB, you're going north on 167 but south on 161. Luckily, it's an extremely short concurrency, with the two joining each other only between two interchanges. So you shouldn't get confused. But the signs are (https://goo.gl/voYMiS) kind of funny (https://goo.gl/o57gUo). Concurrencies aren't particularly common up here. Wrong-way concurrencies are rarer than hen's teeth.
Quote from: kphoger on December 07, 2017, 10:02:50 AM
Quote from: inkyatari on December 06, 2017, 02:17:19 PM
I-69 / 96
Yeah, I get these mixed up very easily–just looking at a map, even. If I were in charge of posting shields at their interchanges, I would probably have dreams at night about putting them on the wrong signs.
They once did, on northbound I-69. Back in 2011, I think. Should be an I-96 shield on this sign (it was eventually fixed):
(https://i.imgur.com/OuHMtUy.jpg)
Quote from: wanderer2575 on January 14, 2018, 10:30:39 AM
Quote from: kphoger on December 07, 2017, 10:02:50 AM
Quote from: inkyatari on December 06, 2017, 02:17:19 PM
I-69 / 96
Yeah, I get these mixed up very easily–just looking at a map, even. If I were in charge of posting shields at their interchanges, I would probably have dreams at night about putting them on the wrong signs.
They once did, on northbound I-69. Back in 2011, I think. Should be an I-96 shield on this sign (it was eventually fixed):
(https://i.imgur.com/OuHMtUy.jpg)
OOPS!
Quote from: wanderer2575 on January 14, 2018, 10:30:39 AM
They once did, on northbound I-69. Back in 2011, I think. Should be an I-96 shield on this sign (it was eventually fixed):
(https://i.imgur.com/OuHMtUy.jpg)
Mind blown.
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on December 14, 2017, 11:30:06 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 14, 2017, 11:16:18 AM
Or how about any wrong way multplex where you are traveling say north and for some reason a route heading south is multiplexed or east and west same thing. I've seen this before and it's probably confusing due to the fact that if it's dark out and you see both north and south you'd be confused on which direction you were really going.
It's even better when it's a N/S wrong-way concurrency but the road itself is E/W aligned. (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5095279,-93.550745,14.75z)
I see that and I raise you a
pointless N/S wrong-way concurrency on an E/W alignment: here (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.5566129,-95.0475772,3a,16.8y,319.51h,86.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sayvURbGEPf9PN7yt9eHsig!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Quote from: wanderer2575 on January 14, 2018, 10:30:39 AM
Quote from: kphoger on December 07, 2017, 10:02:50 AM
Quote from: inkyatari on December 06, 2017, 02:17:19 PM
I-69 / 96
Yeah, I get these mixed up very easily–just looking at a map, even. If I were in charge of posting shields at their interchanges, I would probably have dreams at night about putting them on the wrong signs.
They once did, on northbound I-69. Back in 2011, I think. Should be an I-96 shield on this sign (it was eventually fixed):
(https://i.imgur.com/OuHMtUy.jpg)
That flat out blows my mind that they made that error. I never saw this one or else I would have known about it right away since I notice things like that. Should be I-96 not I-69, I-69's control cities at that point would be Flint and Fort Wayne considering this looks to be in the Lansing area.
Hey, it's just a combination reassurance sign/advance junction sign.
Quote from: wanderer2575 on January 14, 2018, 10:30:39 AM
Quote from: kphoger on December 07, 2017, 10:02:50 AM
Quote from: inkyatari on December 06, 2017, 02:17:19 PM
I-69 / 96
Yeah, I get these mixed up very easily–just looking at a map, even. If I were in charge of posting shields at their interchanges, I would probably have dreams at night about putting them on the wrong signs.
They once did, on northbound I-69. Back in 2011, I think. Should be an I-96 shield on this sign (it was eventually fixed):
(https://i.imgur.com/OuHMtUy.jpg)
I looked on Google Maps and couldn't see the error on StreetView. It goes as far back as 2007 too and I saw a June 2011 photo with it saying I-96. Is this where I-69 comes into Lansing from the south near Lake Interstate and the train tracks off to the west of the highway?
Quote from: Flint1979 on January 15, 2018, 08:19:11 PM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on January 14, 2018, 10:30:39 AM
Quote from: kphoger on December 07, 2017, 10:02:50 AM
Quote from: inkyatari on December 06, 2017, 02:17:19 PM
I-69 / 96
Yeah, I get these mixed up very easily–just looking at a map, even. If I were in charge of posting shields at their interchanges, I would probably have dreams at night about putting them on the wrong signs.
They once did, on northbound I-69. Back in 2011, I think. Should be an I-96 shield on this sign (it was eventually fixed):
(https://i.imgur.com/OuHMtUy.jpg)
I looked on Google Maps and couldn't see the error on StreetView. It goes as far back as 2007 too and I saw a June 2011 photo with it saying I-96. Is this where I-69 comes into Lansing from the south near Lake Interstate and the train tracks off to the west of the highway?
Correct; this is south of Lansing near Lake Interstate, just north of Old US-27. I'm guessing at the 2011 date as that's the timestamp on my computer file. But that could be when I saved a copy during a reorganization, so it might actually have been earlier. And of course it might have been fixed in the field before GSV tooled by again.