There are countless things drivers do that irk us, but here I made a list of what I feel are the top seven:
1 Left Lane Camping
2 Tailgating
3 Cutting In (to get to the left lane)
4 Cutting In (to take an immediate exit)
5 Talking/Texting on Phone
6 No Signal or Excessive Signal
7 High Beams or No Headlights
I'm not asking for a list of additional irksome habits (we all know we could go on forever). Rather, I am wondering how you respond when you encounter the above scenarios. Feel free to discuss your reaction (or state "no reaction") or rate your anger on a 1-10 scale for each scenario.
1 - I get behind them in the left lane and throw my left blinker on. If it persists, I flash my bright. If it continues to persist, I pass them on the right, change lanes to the left, gently brake check them and move back to the right. If there is a "Keep Right Except To Pass" sign, I'll roll down my window and point at it.
2- On the freeway or in urban contexts I don't care. If somebody rides my ass in a residential neighborhood I slow to the speed limit (if I wasn't already going the speed limit). On mountainous highways where it may be difficult to pass, I take it as a sign they would like to pass and pull over as soon as practicable to let them by. On straight rural highways where it's easy to pass, I move over towards the shoulder so they can see better once it is safe to pass.
3- Don't care, as long as they do it smoothly. It they don't, I may flash my brights.
4- See above
5- don't care, unless they are driving erratically, at which point I honk my horn at them whenever they do something erratic.
6- Don't care unless they slow to a stop without signal for no apparent reason to turn, in which case I honk my horn.
7- Flash headlights as a courtesy or get next to them at the next light, roll down the window, and notify them- I don't care, just don't want them to get pulled over.
1 Left Lane Camper
Rage: 6 to 9, depending on speed
Response: When I encounter a left lane obstruction, I try to position myself behind them in the right lane, so I can temporarily control traffic flow (and thereby resolve the problem). I match their speed, and flash my high beams, to signal that it is safe for them to move right. I repeat a few times until there is a response. If there is no response, I get angry. I either speed up > cut them off > hit brakes, or cut over white line > honk > pass slowly. I feel that my response, though aggressive, is justified because I have proof that they are knowingly obstructing flow, which is 100% unacceptable.
2 Tailgater
Rage: 3 to 5, depending on previous observation
Response: I start with turning on my four-way flashers. This has a very high success rate. However, if there is no response, I will gradually slow down (no brakes). I rarely feel the need to pursue the matter further, as I take great precautions not to be an obstruction. It goes without saying that if there is available space to my right, I will move right.
3 Cutting In (to reach the left lane)
Rage: Case-by-Case
Response: There are only two choices, let them in, or don't. Generally speaking, I have mercy and yield (without braking), expecting the same in turn. However: If there is no one directly in front of them, and no one directly behind me, no way. I will not give you a free permit to use the left lane as a "fast" lane. It's for passing! If someone decides to cut me off and not keep up with traffic flow, I will consider a further response. Otherwise, I'm probably over it.
4 Cutting In (to take an immediate exit)
Rage: 10. Zero Tolerance.
Response: No way. Not a chance I will let you in. It is your responsibility to be in the correct lane at least a quarter mile in advance of your exit. Especially if backups for the exit are typical.
This particular ramp (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1418914,-77.5427732,3a,75y,331.47h,82.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scxPkRIjUoeusXXKfh1OniA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) to 590 North is a straight up rip-off. There's always backups at least to Exit 23 during the afternoon rush, and there's always idiots cutting in at the last second :banghead: In some ways, I invite them to cut me off by insisting on maintaining a safe following distance. However, the second they attempt to nose in, I accelerate to within inches of the nearest bumper. Not a chance. I will force you down 590 South (or whatever) before I will let you in. If you get in right behind me, I may also put it in reverse for a minute until you start sweating.
5 Talking/Texting on Phone
Rage: 1 to 2
Response: To be honest, I rarely notice, and therefore rarely respond. If it reflected in their driving skills, I may consider honking or using four-way flashers.
6 No Signal or Excessive Signal
Rage: 1 to 2
Response: What can I do? Nothing that will make them realize their error. So I usually don't respond, nor do I consider this a major offense. Annoying? Yes. Disruptive to flow? Rarely.
7 High Beams or No Headlights
Rage: 2 to 3
Response: Flash lights. The more times I do it before you get the message, the angrier I get. If you are a large truck or SUV approaching with your bright lights on, I may also consider cutting you off.
1 - Wait...some get the message, some don't. If not, pass on the right when safe to do so. If it's a long trip, you're really only losing a few minutes' time.
2 - Usually don't care. I'll move over if I can, but will lift slightly if they're excessive (I'm not going to move over into traffic that going 15 mph slower than me.)
3 - As long as they don't brake-check, I don't care that much. I might flash my lights in annoyance if they're just cutting me so they can now be the 17th car - instead of the 18th vehicle - in the struggling left lane queue. (Congratulations! You're also part of the problem.)
4 - There's ranges of this from extreme annoyance to meh. The one that breaks hard in the left lane, cuts over 2-4 lanes, and dive-bombs into the lane with a major sweeping though the exit gore is the most dangerous one of all. (There's no shame in taking the next exit, douchebag.) But a gentle cut-in where space permits...it happens to all of us. If anybody has ever claimed to have never made a last-second exit change, they're either lying, never driven, or not traveled anywhere new.
5 - If they're not weaving and staying in the lane...So what?
6 - On highways: Only really desirable for sudden maneuvers. (On surface streets, I'd prefer if one signals all the time; realistically, I only need to know why one is slowing, turning, or stopped in a through lane. Excessive signalling usually happens in the left lane when the operator has it stuck. (Some cars have quieter relay clickers than others, some have steering wheels which block the green arrow indicators, and some cars have both.)
7 - Flash my lights, or wave (although this seems a bit futile).
Just don't flash the wrong driver. There was a road rage incident in Detroit yesterday after a guy got flashed driving in the slow lane on I-94. They were thinking "you flash me, i shoot you".
QuoteThe second reporting shooting occurred on Wednesday December 20th, 2017, at approximately 740AM, troopers from the Metro North post were notified of a shooting that took place on I-94 and Allard in the city of Harper Woods.
The preliminary investigation revealed that the victim was travelling in the left lane of I-94 eastbound when he came across a Red in color, Chevrolet full size pick-up truck with Kentucky license plates travelling in the same lane. The victim flashed his lights to get the pick-up to move over. The driver of the pickup stayed in the lane and the victim passed the vehicle. The pickup pulled alongside and the driver produced a handgun and fired a shot. There was no damage to the victim's vehicle and the suspect fled the freeway at the Eight Mile exit.
No one was injured in this incident.
Anyone with information are asked to contact the Michigan State Police Metro North Post at 248-584-5740.
Yesterday's irritation can go under #8: Christmas Spirit. Letting someone in is ok. Let a whole line of people in is not, especially when there's traffic behind you that would also like to go at some point.
Quote from: tradephoric on December 21, 2017, 12:53:16 PM
Just don't flash the wrong driver. There was a road rage incident in Detroit yesterday after a guy got flashed driving in the slow lane on I-94. They were thinking "you flash me, i shoot you".
I flash my lights or honk the horn on occasion...and my wife hates it for this exact reason.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 21, 2017, 01:09:57 PM
Yesterday's irritation can go under #8: Christmas Spirit. Letting someone in is ok. Let a whole line of people in is not, especially when there's traffic behind you that would also like to go at some point.
That is my biggest pet peeve. You can't do that if there's a mile long line of cars behind you.
My responses:
Quote from: webny99 on December 21, 2017, 11:36:26 AM1 Left Lane Camping
It depends on the situation, but I don't rule out overtaking on the right if I can do it safely. I very rarely encounter an isolated left-lane camper; by far the more common problem is traffic stacking up in the left lane behind someone who is passing but doing so at an unreasonably small speed differential. I try to structure overtaking maneuvers so I am past the vehicle I am overtaking within very few seconds--not just to avoid blocking other traffic that wishes to pass but also to avoid sitting in the overtaken vehicle's blind spot for an extended period of time.
If I am in the right lane wishing to pass and have to wait for an extended queue of overtaking vehicles to clear, I will often reset the cruise control so that I am tailing the overtaken vehicle at a generous and slowly increasing headway, even if this means going as slow as 60 or even 55 in a 70 zone. Then, when the queue clears, I will move over, speed up quite a bit--I don't mind 15 over or even a little more for overtakes, subject to super-speeder laws etc.--and once the overtake is finished, move over and return to my preferred cruising speed.
Quote from: webny99 on December 21, 2017, 11:36:26 AM2 Tailgating
I increase following distance (in effect adding the following distance the tailgater is not leaving to his or her bill). I also increase advance notice of turns by deploying my turn signal earlier.
Quote from: webny99 on December 21, 2017, 11:36:26 AM3 Cutting In (to get to the left lane)
I drop back to restore maneuvering room. I do this often enough myself that I can't take offense when it is done to me.
Quote from: webny99 on December 21, 2017, 11:36:26 AM4 Cutting In (to take an immediate exit)
Again, I drop back to restore maneuvering room. I also do this often enough myself that I can't object when it is done to me.
Quote from: webny99 on December 21, 2017, 11:36:26 AM5 Talking/Texting on Phone
I act as if the talker/texter is tailgating since his or her attention is divided and his or her reaction times will be correspondingly slower.
Quote from: webny99 on December 21, 2017, 11:36:26 AM6 No Signal or Excessive Signal
Besides a blinker left on for miles and miles because the driver forgot to check that it cancelled properly, what counts as "excessive signal"? Very occasionally, if another driver has clearly forgotten a blinking signal, I am in his or her forward field of view, and the gesture will not be misinterpreted as my actually signalling a turn or lane change, I will try to give him or her a hint by turning on my own blinker and abruptly cancelling it.
Quote from: webny99 on December 21, 2017, 11:36:26 AM7 High Beams or No Headlights
I give one flash of the brights in the "no headlights" case. I no longer flash for "high beams" since I find in about 70% of cases the dazzle is from high headlamp mounting height.
Quote from: webny99 on December 21, 2017, 11:36:26 AMI'm not asking for a list of additional irksome habits (we all know we could go on forever). Rather, I am wondering how you respond when you encounter the above scenarios. Feel free to discuss your reaction (or state "no reaction") or rate your anger on a 1-10 scale for each scenario.
As a general rule, I try to resist the temptation to become annoyed. People vary very considerably in how much attention and enthusiasm they devote to the driving task (some are very attentive and enthusiastic, to the point that they see a routine commute as a chance to try out new nuances of technique, while others are steeped in boredom and ennui, are semi-oblivious to surrounding traffic, barely manage to get the key things right, and think of driving in general as a chore "monkeys can be trained to do"). And even skilled and enthusiastic drivers can have off days when their thoughts are on other things or when they are almost too physically ill to drive well or take pleasure in the driving task.
When I see something on the road that annoys or upsets me--which is as likely to be something like debris on the road as it is the thoughtlessness of other drivers--I have a heuristic that I deploy. I ask myself: Why am I here? Why am I in this situation? What can I do in the future to avoid being in it again?
Quote from: webny99 on December 21, 2017, 11:36:26 AM
1 Left Lane Camping
2 Tailgating
3 Cutting In (to get to the left lane)
4 Cutting In (to take an immediate exit)
5 Talking/Texting on Phone
6 No Signal or Excessive Signal
7 High Beams or No Headlights
1. Ride their butt for a short time, maybe with my left blinker on. Then just go around on the right.
2. Doesn't bother me very much. Sometimes I'll tap my brakes while keeping the other foot on the gas.
3. Doesn't bother me very much. We obviously both need to pass someone.
4. Doesn't bother me very much. In fact, I do the same thing sometimes.
5. Doesn't bother me very much, unless it's making them do stupid stuff. I occasionally use my phone too.
6. Mild irritation. For truckers who've left their signal on, I put mine on after getting back in front of them for a while.
7a. Flash my brights very quickly.
7b. Briefly turn my headlights
off and back on again, twice in quick succession.
Quote from: J N Winkler on December 21, 2017, 03:31:10 PM
If I am in the right lane wishing to pass and have to wait for an extended queue of overtaking vehicles to clear, I will often reset the cruise control so that I am tailing the overtaken vehicle at a generous and slowly increasing headway, even if this means going as slow as 60 or even 55 in a 70 zone. Then, when the queue clears, I will move over, speed up quite a bit--I don't mind 15 over or even a little more for overtakes, subject to super-speeder laws etc.--and once the overtake is finished, move over and return to my preferred cruising speed.
Excellent. This is what I do as well. I like to drive fast in general, but I certainly don't mind letting people who are even faster than me complete their overtaking maneuver.
Quote from: J N Winkler on December 21, 2017, 03:31:10 PM
I also increase advance notice of turns by deploying my turn signal earlier.
Also excellent. Signaling your intentions clearly helps them avoid doing risky things at a terrible moment.
Quote from: J N Winkler on December 21, 2017, 03:31:10 PM
Besides a blinker left on for miles and miles because the driver forgot to check that it cancelled properly, what counts as "excessive signal"? Very occasionally, if another driver has clearly forgotten a blinking signal, I am in his or her forward field of view, and the gesture will not be misinterpreted as my actually signalling a turn or lane change, I will try to give him or her a hint by turning on my own blinker and abruptly cancelling it.
Sometimes they still don't pick up on the hint. I've found that slowly alternating between right and left signalling gets the point across to the person behind you.
Quote from: J N Winkler on December 21, 2017, 03:31:10 PM
Besides a blinker left on for miles and miles because the driver forgot to check that it cancelled properly, what counts as "excessive signal"?
I'd say anything more than seven or eight blinks (for a merge) is "excessive". Everyone can decide for themselves what constitutes "annoying".
QuoteSome are very attentive and enthusiastic, to the point that they see a routine commute as a chance to try out new nuances of technique
Very impressed with how well I have been described :D
Quote from: kphoger on December 21, 2017, 03:32:03 PM
3. Doesn't bother me very much. We obviously both need to pass someone.
I am only hesitant to let them in if they
don't need to pass someone. We have folks around here that force their way into the left lane just to "be in the fast lane" :banghead:
Quote from: formulanone on December 21, 2017, 12:28:57 PM
4 - There's ranges of this from extreme annoyance to meh. The one that breaks hard in the left lane, cuts over 2-4 lanes, and dive-bombs into the lane with a major sweeping though the exit gore is the most dangerous one of all. (There's no shame in taking the next exit, douchebag.) But a gentle cut-in where space permits...it happens to all of us. If anybody has ever claimed to have never made a last-second exit change, they're either lying, never driven, or not traveled anywhere new.
I'm talking about people who
intentionally wait until the last second - and then cut in front of a two-mile string of stopped/barely moving vehicles. I may cut in myself if traffic is free-flowing, but when people are completely stopped? I find it really irksome to yield when you know you just let them save 5-10 minutes compared to everyone else, not to mention
increase the overall delay.
Quote from: webny99 on December 21, 2017, 03:58:12 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on December 21, 2017, 03:31:10 PM
Besides a blinker left on for miles and miles because the driver forgot to check that it cancelled properly, what counts as "excessive signal"?
I'd say anything more than seven or eight blinks (for a merge) is "excessive". Everyone can decide for themselves what constitutes "annoying".
If there's someone who keeps his blinker on for a quarter-mile, just waiting for someone to be kind enough to please please please let them over into the next lane, my reaction is... "Dude, either get over or stay put. Your blinker is there to tell me what you're
going to do, not to
ask my permission for it. Learn how to merge."
Quote from: webny99 on December 21, 2017, 03:58:12 PM
We have folks around here that force their way into the left lane just to "be in the fast lane" :banghead:
Oh yeah, there are plenty of those around here. The freeways are three lanes each way, though, so it's pretty easy to pass them anyway. I find the behavior you describe to be considerably less common where it's just two lanes each way.
Quote from: webny99 on December 21, 2017, 03:58:12 PM
Quote from: formulanone on December 21, 2017, 12:28:57 PM
4 - There's ranges of this from extreme annoyance to meh. The one that breaks hard in the left lane, cuts over 2-4 lanes, and dive-bombs into the lane with a major sweeping though the exit gore is the most dangerous one of all. (There's no shame in taking the next exit, douchebag.) But a gentle cut-in where space permits...it happens to all of us. If anybody has ever claimed to have never made a last-second exit change, they're either lying, never driven, or not traveled anywhere new.
I'm talking about people who intentionally wait until the last second - and then cut in front of a two-mile string of stopped/barely moving vehicles. I may cut in myself if traffic is free-flowing, but when people are completely stopped? I find it really irksome to yield when you know you just let them save 5-10 minutes compared to everyone else, not to mention increase the overall delay.
My daily commute home involves exiting
via the option lane here (https://goo.gl/maps/cwob3nuDzKp), and I do it approaching the afternoon rush. The exit-only (accel/decel) lane is frequently stacked up at 40 mph or less, sometimes a dead stop at the gore point. The option lane (rightmost of the three through lanes) is frequently stacked up with people who are trying to merge their way over into that lane, or else merge their way out onto the mainline from just getting on. So, probably one day out of every three, I do a double lane change from the center lane, because
my ramp is free and clear. It's a roll of the dice, however, that I'm going to get a gap in traffic–that is, I'm banking on the fact that at least half the people in the right lane are actually going to change lanes to the right. Every once in a while, I never get that gap. And you know what? There's no shame in taking the next exit. I get off at the next exit and take this
phallic-shaped route (https://goo.gl/maps/dAmxKBwLyu22) instead (free-flowing due to the folded diamond configuration).
Edited for penis.
Quote
1 Left Lane Camping
As long as they're not preventing me from achieving my desired speed I don't care (unless I'm in the car with them in which case I'll say something). If they are I'll get progressively angrier the longer it goes on up to 10. I'll try to tailgate them briefly hoping they'll do what I do (see below). If not, well, there's not much else to do but follow them at their speed.
Quote
2 Tailgating
I don't care as far as anger level is concerned. It's their problem, not mine. However, if traffic allows I'll move over even if it means slowing down a bit to let them pass. If traffic does not allow, I speed up to finish my pass sooner and get out of the way.
Quote
3 Cutting In (to get to the left lane)
Anger level about 4. I do it too occasionally, especially when #1 is a factor.
Quote
4 Cutting In (to take an immediate exit)
Anger level 6. Honk maybe
Quote
5 Talking/Texting on Phone
I don't look at what other drivers are doing inside their cars. Even if I did, I'm not the police. As long as they're not driving in a dangerous manner, I don't care (again, unless I'm a passenger).
Quote
6 No Signal or Excessive Signal
There are places nobody signals by convention. If it's a place I frequent, it bugs me (anger level 3), but I learn to live with it. Otherwise, no signal is not really a problem I encounter enough to care. I do encounter excessive signalling on occasion, but once I figure it out, it doesn't bother me much (anger level 1)
Quote
7 High Beams or No Headlights
Anger level 6 or so. don't do anything about it, though.
Quote from: kphoger on December 21, 2017, 04:22:10 PM
Quote from: webny99 on December 21, 2017, 03:58:12 PM
We have folks around here that force their way into the left lane just to "be in the fast lane" :banghead:
Oh yeah, there are plenty of those around here. The freeways are three lanes each way, though, so it's pretty easy to pass them anyway. I find the behavior you describe to be considerably less common where it's just two lanes each way.
I presume you knew that Rochester has plenty of six lane freeways as well :D I agree that it's more common on such freeways; however, I am hesitant to pass on the right. I would prefer the system work as it's intended to and me be able to pass on the left.
Quote from: kphoger on December 21, 2017, 04:22:10 PM
My daily commute home involves exiting via the option lane here (https://goo.gl/maps/cwob3nuDzKp), and I do it approaching the afternoon rush. The exit-only (accel/decel) lane is frequently stacked up at 40 mph or less, sometimes a dead stop at the gore point. The option lane (rightmost of the three through lanes) is frequently stacked up with people who are trying to merge their way over into that lane, or else merge their way out onto the mainline from just getting on. So, probably one day out of every three, I do a double lane change from the center lane, because my ramp is free and clear. It's a roll of the dice, however, that I'm going to get a gap in traffic–that is, I'm banking on the fact that at least half the people in the right lane are actually going to change lanes to the right. Every once in a while, I never get that gap. And you know what? There's no shame in taking the next exit. I get off at the next exit and take this phallic-shaped route (https://goo.gl/maps/dAmxKBwLyu22) instead (free-flowing due to the folded diamond configuration).
Very similar situation that I linked to above - a ramp that splits in two with most traffic taking the far right fork :banghead: In my case, though, everyone heading to the far right ramp uses "early" merging.* So anyone exiting and taking the
left fork - as you are - will never face the dilemma you face - the option lane is always open for the taking.
Unless someone decides to cut the queue at the last second. Hence my hatred for these people - they screw up the flow on
both forks of the ramp with their idiocy.
*When I say early, I mean
really early. Like right here (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1381097,-77.5366485,3a,75y,296.94h,87.13t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHCdK9cbPmb9gBPUTozSp5w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) everyone does two 45 degree turns and starts lining up against the sound barrier.
Quote from: corco on December 21, 2017, 11:45:09 AM
1 - I get behind them in the left lane and throw my left blinker on.
I have tried that a number of times, but with limited success. The problem with staying behind them is that people will be whizzing by on the right the whole time - which I find equally irksome. I'd rather provide them with a specific opportunity to move right - then I get the credit for diffusing the situation. Further, it seems like a more genuine attempt to help - as opposed to them seeing you as an aggressive driver. They can no longer use the "I'm preventing you from speeding" argument, nor the "I didn't have a chance" argument. Finally, this makes the problem more evident to other drivers. No one can get through until the left lane hog does the right thing. If they do, it's a win-win. If they don't, they will be made to feel my cold displeasure and spend the rest of their days wishing they did.
Quote3- Don't care, as long as they do it smoothly. It they don't, I may flash my brights.
4- See above
In free flowing traffic conditions, I agree, merge whenever you like - preferably when it's least disruptive to others. But if you are stopped, with two cars bumper to bumper next to you, you can no longer merge smoothly. Now there is a completely unnecessary problem - and I have no sympathy for the one who caused it.
Quote from: webny99 on December 21, 2017, 06:27:16 PM
In free flowing traffic conditions, I agree, merge whenever you like - preferably when it's least disruptive to others. But if you are stopped, with two cars bumper to bumper next to you, you can no longer merge smoothly. Now there is a completely unnecessary problem - and I have no sympathy for the one who caused it.
By smooth I mean quickly and decisively - if you see a gap and get in and just do it, even if my lane is stopped, I respect that. In fact, I'm often the one making that maneuver because it is a more efficient use of capacity.
If you act all indecisive about it and throw your blinker on and hesitate and wait for somebody to GIVE you a gap, that's not smooth and I get annoyed. If there's empty pavement, get your wheels into it decisively. If you do that, I will never complain.
Quote from: webny99 on December 21, 2017, 11:36:26 AM
1 Left Lane Camping
2 Tailgating
3 Cutting In (to get to the left lane)
4 Cutting In (to take an immediate exit)
5 Talking/Texting on Phone
6 No Signal or Excessive Signal
7 High Beams or No Headlights
My order
1: Left lane hogs
2. Tailgating
3. cell phone use
4. Cutting to left lane
5. Cutting to exit
6. Headlights
7. Turn signals.
Quote from: webny99 on December 21, 2017, 03:58:12 PM
Quote from: formulanone on December 21, 2017, 12:28:57 PM
4 - There's ranges of this from extreme annoyance to meh. The one that breaks hard in the left lane, cuts over 2-4 lanes, and dive-bombs into the lane with a major sweeping though the exit gore is the most dangerous one of all. (There's no shame in taking the next exit, douchebag.) But a gentle cut-in where space permits...it happens to all of us. If anybody has ever claimed to have never made a last-second exit change, they're either lying, never driven, or not traveled anywhere new.
I'm talking about people who intentionally wait until the last second - and then cut in front of a two-mile string of stopped/barely moving vehicles. I may cut in myself if traffic is free-flowing, but when people are completely stopped? I find it really irksome to yield when you know you just let them save 5-10 minutes compared to everyone else, not to mention increase the overall delay.
I think mostly it's annoying, but sometimes actually understandable.
There's places I'll live near/travel to which have ample room or notification for merging, and others that don't. The locals may all know that they have to wait in turn two exits ahead for a future ramp lane, especially without signage (or signage that's not visible in a lane due to stopped/slow traffic), so an out-of-towner may not "know that". One time I was trying to get home though the Louisville airport in the pouring rain, and couldn't find the exit for I-264 from I-65 because it was backed up so far north, yet totally free-flowing in the though lanes. Only realized that about 200 feet from the gore point! Luckily, there was just ample room, and someone was nice enough to let me in.
There's times I've come down a hill only to find there's a blockage ahead, debris in the road, a breakdown, a police officer...whatever.
We've had discussions whereby there's different reasons to move as close to the "head" of the line as possible. An extremely short merge with limited to no notice...totally understandable, yet it's going to be irksome. When there's 2 miles of notice in limited traffic that a lane will drop? Less understandable. I've also heard that different areas of the country promote different ideals on merging at different times. In narrower expressways where there's lots of close-by exits, allowing one lane to free-flow as much as possible makes sense, even if it does make the line-cutter appear greedy.
Personally, I've noticed I get a lot less frustrated at other drivers as I've gotten older for a variety of reasons:
1) Fleeting behaviors aren't worth the raise in blood pressure, anxiety, and/or possible damage.
2) Despite my user name, it's not a race (sometimes low-traffic backroads are an exception).
3) I've made all the same mistakes before, except my extreme example of cutting over several lanes.
In general, I'm quick to use the horn. I never understood why people don't honk...it's your only way of communicating with other drivers. Use it or lose it.
IMHO, as with anything in life, informing people of their shortcomings is a societal way of improving habits. If a person gets flipped off by everyone every time they do a particular thing, bet that left-lane banditry or taking food out of someone else's cart in the supermarket, eventually all but the most self-centered or stupid will learn from it.
1 - 2 Left lane banditry is really just a form of selfishness, is it not. YOU are taking up all of that space in front of YOU for YOURSELF. Light flash, pass on right, engage right blinker when passed. Exception 6 for semis, which use the 3rd lane which is illegal in my state. Not only selfish but illegal. Light flash, pass on right, point to the sign that says "no trucks in fast lane", call the "how am I drivng number".
2 - 4 True tailgating is dangerous. Since I am always a safe distance from the car in front of me, there is no reason for anyone else to do differently. My daily commute includes a 100% certain traffic comes to full stop due to an inadequate bridge (4 lanes, with the road being 6). I know that, but some out-of-state yahoo wants to tailgate me. Brake check, if continue let the idiot pass then brandish a firearm. Three times the idiot who passed me slammed into the stoppage ahead.
3 - 1 I am, as stated, a safe distance from the car in front of me, but if you want in, fine. As long as you are willing to go on and not violate #1 above.
4 - 3 If you cannot read the signage, you should not be driving. The correct procedure is to go to the next exit and turn around.
5 - 0 This is a lost cause. Generally, I see females doing this in parking lots or city streets, which is where one must pay the most attention. These people are so self-centered there is nothing you can do about it. Nothing will work.
6 - 2 for no signal, bright lights. Excessive signal is NBD, usually some old guy. Most modern cars have a boing or something if you leave it on too long.
7 -1 high beams are generally just not paying attention. No headlights people at dusk, in my experience, are generally drunks or people with beater cars not wanting to alert the cops to the fact they have no or only on headlight. If you cannot afford basic repairs to your car, you cannot afford to own a car.
Quote from: corco on December 21, 2017, 10:08:08 PM
Quote from: webny99 on December 21, 2017, 06:27:16 PM
In free flowing traffic conditions, I agree, merge whenever you like - preferably when it's least disruptive to others. But if you are stopped, with two cars bumper to bumper next to you, you can no longer merge smoothly. Now there is a completely unnecessary problem - and I have no sympathy for the one who caused it.
By smooth I mean quickly and decisively - if you see a gap and get in and just do it, even if my lane is stopped, I respect that. In fact, I'm often the one making that maneuver because it is a more efficient use of capacity.
If you act all indecisive about it and throw your blinker on and hesitate and wait for somebody to GIVE you a gap, that's not smooth and I get annoyed. If there's empty pavement, get your wheels into it decisively. If you do that, I will never complain.
It is impossible to go from 55 mph to completely stopped without obstructing the flow behind you. Especially when you are attempting to fit into a gap of a car length or less. Regarding the bold, that is what happens all the time at the interchange I linked to above, and it really annoys me.
Regarding "more efficient use of capacity", I agree - however, there are times when it is best to leave that capacity for cars that need it to prevent them from facing delays. Zipper merging is great for lanes that
end - but for lanes that
exit, not so much. To put it bluntly, it's unfair to other traffic and causes unnecessary slowdowns (given that you will be forced to slow down significantly in your attempts to cut in).
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on December 22, 2017, 09:20:11 AM
In general, I'm quick to use the horn. I never understood why people don't honk...it's your only way of communicating with other drivers. Use it or lose it.
I can mention several other ways of communicating... four way flashers, high beams, and certain fingers, to name a few :-D
The problem with horns is they can be misinterpreted - are you signifying danger, are you angry, are you just doing it for the fun of it, etc.
Quote from: formulanone on December 22, 2017, 05:44:56 AM
Personally, I've noticed I get a lot less frustrated at other drivers as I've gotten older for a variety of reasons:
1) Fleeting behaviors aren't worth the raise in blood pressure, anxiety, and/or possible damage.
2) Despite my user name, it's not a race (sometimes low-traffic backroads are an exception).
3) I've made all the same mistakes before, except my extreme example of cutting over several lanes.
Younger male drivers *cough* (me) *cough* are generally the most aggressive type of drivers. I expect I will chill out significantly as I age :-D
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on December 22, 2017, 09:20:11 AMIn general, I'm quick to use the horn. I never understood why people don't honk...it's your only way of communicating with other drivers. Use it or lose it.
I see little to no value in using the horn. I've had people keep on backing up until they crashed into me, even when I was leaning on the horn. It is an excellent way to escalate a situation into a road-rage incident. No matter how loud it is, you have no guarantee that the other driver will be able to hear it--I have about 90% hearing loss in both ears and can't tell with any degree of assurance when I am being honked at.
Quote from: webny99 on December 21, 2017, 11:36:26 AM
There are countless things drivers do that irk us, but here I made a list of what I feel are the top seven:
1 Left Lane Camping
Turn on left turn signal (works about 30% of the time), then flash brights if no response (works another 30% of the time). Then pass the other 40% of the assholes on the right.
Quote2 Tailgating
1. Slow down to the speed limit; 2. Splash them with the windshield wiper fluid (it actually works); 3. Ignore them completely.
Quote3 Cutting In (to get to the left lane)
Depends. If we're all trying to merge, and they're trying to zipper, no problem. If they're stupid and racing past everyone before then lane ends, then fuck you, buddy.
Quote4 Cutting In (to take an immediate exit)
Heavy, crawling traffic, and they need to exit immediately, no problem. If they're just idiots in normal traffic, then they get the horn.
Quote5 Talking/Texting on Phone
Situationally dependent. If it's in traffic, I just ignore them. If it's at a signal and they're still stopped while it's green, then they get the horn.
Quote6 No Signal or Excessive Signal
Excessive signal is merely ignored. No signal, and it directly affects me, they get the horn.
Quote7 High Beams or No Headlights
1. Flick my high beams at them to remind them that they're on. 2. Turn my light off then back on to remind them that they're off.
QuoteI'm not asking for a list of additional irksome habits (we all know we could go on forever). Rather, I am wondering how you respond when you encounter the above scenarios. Feel free to discuss your reaction (or state "no reaction") or rate your anger on a 1-10 scale for each scenario.
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on December 22, 2017, 09:20:11 AM
In general, I'm quick to use the horn. I never understood why people don't honk...it's your only way of communicating with other drivers. Use it or lose it.
Agreed. Horn first, questions later.
Quote from: Brandon on December 22, 2017, 12:29:16 PM
If we're all trying to merge, and they're trying to zipper, no problem. If they're stupid and racing past everyone before then lane ends, then fuck you, buddy.
"Zipper" implies waiting till the lane end, doesn't it? So aren't these two situations the same?
Quote from: webny99 on December 21, 2017, 11:36:26 AM
There are countless things drivers do that irk us, but here I made a list of what I feel are the top seven:
1 Left Lane Camping
Anger 7...it is dangerous and they need to start ticketing them. I just get around them after tailgating myself.
2 Tailgating
Anger 2...Generally I get out of their way, unless they are just total jerks (not using blinkers etc)
3 Cutting In (to get to the left lane)
4 Cutting In (to take an immediate exit)
I can't stand budging, Anger 10....idiots who stay in the right lane until the last second and demand to get in. Get in back when everyone else does.
5 Talking/Texting on Phone
Anger 8...hang up and drive
6 No Signal or Excessive Signal
Anger 9....lazy asses
7 High Beams or No Headlights
Anger 6...blind everyone for your convenience
I'm not asking for a list of additional irksome habits (we all know we could go on forever). Rather, I am wondering how you respond when you encounter the above scenarios. Feel free to discuss your reaction (or state "no reaction") or rate your anger on a 1-10 scale for each scenario.
I was trying to make a right turn from a T-intersection yesterday and some jackass was coming from the left with his righ turn signal on so I turned in front of him and he almost ran me over, then went around me. He was driving a Cap Metro vehicle so I reported the jerk.
Quote from: kphoger on December 22, 2017, 02:23:59 PM
Quote from: Brandon on December 22, 2017, 12:29:16 PM
If we're all trying to merge, and they're trying to zipper, no problem. If they're stupid and racing past everyone before then lane ends, then fuck you, buddy.
"Zipper" implies waiting till the lane end, doesn't it? So aren't these two situations the same?
Um, no. Zipper implies that the person has found his spot and merges in smoothly. The stupid fool racing past everyone is just trying to bull his/her way in later. There is a distinct difference, and I've seen it from my time driving around Chicagoland.
I don't really care what you do, just don't cut me off or hit me. 95% of motorists are non-commercial. AKA NOT for-hire. Their job isn't on the line when they speed or don't signal or drive aggressively. There's nothing for them to lose. They get a ticket, no biggie. Just pay it and keep driving like shit. It really doesn't matter to them whatsoever. I've learned over the years to live and let live on the road. Honestly, if you rage at someone for driving like a hot head, their response will always be, "IDGAF, mind your own business." They don't care and you can't change their mind. Just keep driving properly if you are already.
1 Left Lane Camping
Rage factor: 4/10. Whenever this happens, I will move to or stay on the right and just pass. (I'm surprised at the number of people who try to get the car in the left lane to move over. In my experience, that's likely to make me more frustrated.)
2 Tailgating
7/10. In this case, I slow down and let them pass. But it is one of those things that just makes me crazy. I don't even like it when someone is a hundred or so yards behind me using me as a "pace car." In these situations as well, I will drive normally until I hit the next exit (in case they're just anxious about passing and getting back in time) and then slow down until they pass.
3 Cutting In (to get to the left lane)
3/10. How mad I get here depends if there's room behind me. If there is, I get annoyed that they couldn't wait. If not, there's a reason I myself am in the left lane. In any case, when this happens, I'll give a bit of room, and continue on otherwise normally.
4 Cutting In (to take an immediate exit)
4/10. This is largely the same as 3, but since exiting is a bit more of an important decision than passing, I tend to judge it a bit more harshly. If there's space to move over to the left lane here, I'll often take it.
5 Talking/Texting on Phone
9/10. Hate, hate, hate, hate, hate. There's nothing to do though but to give 'em some space either ahead of, or preferably, behind me.
6 No Signal or Excessive Signal
2/10. I don't really do anything different here. Maybe I pay a bit more attention to what they're doing since there's no "warning."
7 High Beams or No Headlights
4/10. Excessive high beam people are jerks. No headlight people are idiots. I will sometimes try to signal that the headlights aren't on, but not usually.
Quote from: Brandon on December 22, 2017, 07:08:49 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 22, 2017, 02:23:59 PM
Quote from: Brandon on December 22, 2017, 12:29:16 PM
If we're all trying to merge, and they're trying to zipper, no problem. If they're stupid and racing past everyone before then lane ends, then fuck you, buddy.
"Zipper" implies waiting till the lane end, doesn't it? So aren't these two situations the same?
Um, no. Zipper implies that the person has found his spot and merges in smoothly. The stupid fool racing past everyone is just trying to bull his/her way in later. There is a distinct difference, and I've seen it from my time driving around Chicagoland.
I disagree. I think that zipper merge does mean merging at the "end." It's not something that's necessarily smooth either, in my view, especially if there's congestion.
Quote from: Brandon on December 22, 2017, 07:08:49 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 22, 2017, 02:23:59 PM
Quote from: Brandon on December 22, 2017, 12:29:16 PM
If we're all trying to merge, and they're trying to zipper, no problem. If they're stupid and racing past everyone before then lane ends, then fuck you, buddy.
"Zipper" implies waiting till the lane end, doesn't it? So aren't these two situations the same?
Um, no. Zipper implies that the person has found his spot and merges in smoothly. The stupid fool racing past everyone is just trying to bull his/her way in later. There is a distinct difference, and I've seen it from my time driving around Chicagoland.
Not according to my state's DOT.
Quote from: KDOT
What is a Zipper Merge?
When a lane is closed in a construction work zone, a 'zipper merge' occurs when drivers use both lanes of traffic up until reaching the defined merge area, where they then alternate turns in "zipper" fashion into the open lane.
When drivers see the "lane closed ahead" sign and traffic backing up, drivers should stay in their current lane up to the point of merge and then take turns with the other drivers to safely and smoothly merge into the remaining open lane.
What you call "racing past everyone ... trying to bull his/her way in later" is what the rest of us call "doing a zipper merge." If everyone else wants to get over early and then sit there for five extra minutes, no sweat off my back, I'll use the empty lane. And in so doing, I'll be the one doing a zipper merge.
Quote from: kphoger on December 23, 2017, 05:17:07 PM
Quote from: Brandon on December 22, 2017, 07:08:49 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 22, 2017, 02:23:59 PM
Quote from: Brandon on December 22, 2017, 12:29:16 PM
If we're all trying to merge, and they're trying to zipper, no problem. If they're stupid and racing past everyone before then lane ends, then fuck you, buddy.
"Zipper" implies waiting till the lane end, doesn't it? So aren't these two situations the same?
Um, no. Zipper implies that the person has found his spot and merges in smoothly. The stupid fool racing past everyone is just trying to bull his/her way in later. There is a distinct difference, and I've seen it from my time driving around Chicagoland.
Not according to my state's DOT.
Quote from: KDOT
What is a Zipper Merge?
When a lane is closed in a construction work zone, a 'zipper merge' occurs when drivers use both lanes of traffic up until reaching the defined merge area, where they then alternate turns in "zipper" fashion into the open lane.
When drivers see the “lane closed ahead” sign and traffic backing up, drivers should stay in their current lane up to the point of merge and then take turns with the other drivers to safely and smoothly merge into the remaining open lane.
What you call "racing past everyone ... trying to bull his/her way in later" is what the rest of us call "doing a zipper merge." If everyone else wants to get over early and then sit there for five extra minutes, no sweat off my back, I'll use the empty lane. And in so doing, I'll be the one doing a zipper merge.
Agreed. In Brandon's context, 'Zippering' would be anytime someone merges. Zippering, in most definitions, is done at the merge point.
Quote from: webny99 on December 21, 2017, 11:36:26 AM
There are countless things drivers do that irk us, but here I made a list of what I feel are the top seven:
1 Left Lane Camping
2 Tailgating
3 Cutting In (to get to the left lane)
4 Cutting In (to take an immediate exit)
5 Talking/Texting on Phone
6 No Signal or Excessive Signal
7 High Beams or No Headlights
1. Usually, I'll just wait for the right time and swing around to the right and pass them. Annoying, but I don't get overly agitated.
2. This one is a pet peeve, and it depends on if there are multiple lanes, and if there is a car in front of me. If there is a car in front of me, I just give a light tap of the brakes, and I'm done. If there is no car in front of me and it is multiple lanes, it depends on how annoying the person is. if it's a simple case of tailgating, then I'll most likely just let them by, and give them a dirty look as they do so. If it involves the other car flashing high beams and horn beeping, then I'll first give the brake tap, then pull over and usually either give a dirty look and mouth something like "go, a___ole". If it's a single lane and no car in front of me, then I'll give the tap, then slow down about 15 MPH or so. If it persists, then I'll usually look for a turnoff and either mouth something or make a gesture as the other car passes.
3. This one kind of depends. If the person signals, I usually won't get that mad, unless it happens over and over to me on the same trip like there's a neon sign on my roof that says "cut in here". If it's a non-signal, then I'll usually flash the high beams and/or give a dirty look. If it's a zipper merge: if the person was originally ahead of me or if the other line is moving at or faster than the speed I'm gong, I'll let them in; fair is fair. If it's someone that gunned it and hasn't waited in line like the rest of us, I'll give them a hard time and try not to, but I'll usually relent, giving them a dirty look or flashing the high beams as I do. An out of state license plate will give that person a pass except in the case of gunning it and there was plenty of advanced notice of the lane ending.
4. This one really depends on if the driver is from out of state. If they are from out of state, I give them the benefit of the doubt in that they're not familiar with the road. If it's an in-state plate, it depends on if a signal was used and how close to the ramp we are. If we're right at the ramp, the person is a local, and no signal is used, it's a perfect storm where I will put on the high beams for about 30 seconds, then shut them off and mouth something and/or make a gesture.
5. I don't do anything unless it directly involves them making an aggressive maneuver on me. I usually don't get mad as a driver; I do so more as a pedestrian trying to cross in a crosswalk or in a shopping center. If someone flies through at 40 MPH on their phone, I'll give the old "Get off your phone, a___ole" shout.
6. Big difference between the two. The excessive signal
may draw a dirty look as I pass, and little else if it's extreme. No signal can be divided into no signal to
get in front of me, or no signal and you
turn off in front of me. The former will draw a combo of a dirty look, flashing the high beams, the horn (if it's obnoxiously close or there's less than a car length between me and the car in front, and a gesture if there was a previous engagement.
7. No headlights: I'll usually just give a quick off and on of the lights and say "Turn your headlights on, dummy" to myself in a Fred Sanford kind of voice. If the person is in front of me, then I'll do the off/on again, then flash the high beams. It's more that I'm concerned for everyone's safety rather than agitated. High beams depends on if the car is coming at me or behind me. If coming at me, I'll usually just give a quick flash of the high beams to let them know they're on. If the lights are obnoxiously bright, I'll turn mine on about a second before we pass each other. If it's someone behind me, I'll try to aim my mirror to deflect the light back at them. If it involves tailgating, use mirror technique, refer to #2, and apply high beams for a few seconds if the person gets in front of me and there is no oncoming traffic.
Quote from: kphoger on December 23, 2017, 05:17:07 PM
Quote from: Brandon on December 22, 2017, 07:08:49 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 22, 2017, 02:23:59 PM
Quote from: Brandon on December 22, 2017, 12:29:16 PM
If we're all trying to merge, and they're trying to zipper, no problem. If they're stupid and racing past everyone before then lane ends, then fuck you, buddy.
"Zipper" implies waiting till the lane end, doesn't it? So aren't these two situations the same?
Um, no. Zipper implies that the person has found his spot and merges in smoothly. The stupid fool racing past everyone is just trying to bull his/her way in later. There is a distinct difference, and I've seen it from my time driving around Chicagoland.
Not according to my state's DOT.
Quote from: KDOT
What is a Zipper Merge?
When a lane is closed in a construction work zone, a 'zipper merge' occurs when drivers use both lanes of traffic up until reaching the defined merge area, where they then alternate turns in "zipper" fashion into the open lane.
When drivers see the "lane closed ahead" sign and traffic backing up, drivers should stay in their current lane up to the point of merge and then take turns with the other drivers to safely and smoothly merge into the remaining open lane.
What you call "racing past everyone ... trying to bull his/her way in later" is what the rest of us call "doing a zipper merge." If everyone else wants to get over early and then sit there for five extra minutes, no sweat off my back, I'll use the empty lane. And in so doing, I'll be the one doing a zipper merge.
Racing past would also include those who ride on the shoulder to pass traffic, and those who move over onto the entry ramp (but were on the freeway to begin with) and then try to bull their way back in. You guys should drive around Chicago more often at rush hour. There's a vast difference between zippering (where both lanes are clogged up and used) and rushing past every one.
Quote from: webny99 on December 21, 2017, 11:36:26 AM
There are countless things drivers do that irk us, but here I made a list of what I feel are the top seven:
1 Left Lane Camping
2 Tailgating
3 Cutting In (to get to the left lane)
4 Cutting In (to take an immediate exit)
5 Talking/Texting on Phone
6 No Signal or Excessive Signal
7 High Beams or No Headlights
I'm not asking for a list of additional irksome habits (we all know we could go on forever). Rather, I am wondering how you respond when you encounter the above scenarios. Feel free to discuss your reaction (or state "no reaction") or rate your anger on a 1-10 scale for each scenario.
1. Pull onto the shoulder to pass them, then start merging into them before I pass them to force them over to avoid an accident.
2. Brake check every 30 seconds until they get the message.
3. Hold the horn until they get out of the left lane (if they required me to use my brakes)
4. Give them a thumbs up.
5. Make sexual gestures at them.
6. Start using hand signals to indicate my maneuvers.
7. Dial 911 and report the drunk driver. Follow them and give location updates to the dispatcher.
Quote from: Brandon on December 24, 2017, 07:18:14 AM
Racing past would also include those who ride on the shoulder to pass traffic, and those who move over onto the entry ramp (but were on the freeway to begin with) and then try to bull their way back in. You guys should drive around Chicago more often at rush hour. There's a vast difference between zippering (where both lanes are clogged up and used) and rushing past every one.
I don't know about the others, but the part I was objecting to was:
Quote from: Brandon on December 22, 2017, 12:29:16 PM
If we're all trying to merge, and they're trying to zipper, no problem. If they're stupid and racing past everyone before then lane ends, then fuck you, buddy.
What you're talking about here is a different situation from driving on a ramp or the shoulder.
Quote from: kphoger on December 23, 2017, 05:17:07 PM
Quote from: Brandon on December 22, 2017, 07:08:49 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 22, 2017, 02:23:59 PM
Quote from: Brandon on December 22, 2017, 12:29:16 PM
If we're all trying to merge, and they're trying to zipper, no problem. If they're stupid and racing past everyone before then lane ends, then fuck you, buddy.
"Zipper" implies waiting till the lane end, doesn't it? So aren't these two situations the same?
Um, no. Zipper implies that the person has found his spot and merges in smoothly. The stupid fool racing past everyone is just trying to bull his/her way in later. There is a distinct difference, and I've seen it from my time driving around Chicagoland.
Not according to my state's DOT.
Quote from: KDOT
What is a Zipper Merge?
When a lane is closed in a construction work zone, a 'zipper merge' occurs when drivers use both lanes of traffic up until reaching the defined merge area, where they then alternate turns in "zipper" fashion into the open lane.
When drivers see the "lane closed ahead" sign and traffic backing up, drivers should stay in their current lane up to the point of merge and then take turns with the other drivers to safely and smoothly merge into the remaining open lane.
What you call "racing past everyone ... trying to bull his/her way in later" is what the rest of us call "doing a zipper merge." If everyone else wants to get over early and then sit there for five extra minutes, no sweat off my back, I'll use the empty lane. And in so doing, I'll be the one doing a zipper merge.
Funny how everyone else gets over but the same idiots bully their way in every day, after I've been in the proper lane for 5 minutes. Screw those idiots.
1) Deploy the forward mounted .50 cal machine guns. I hope to upgrade to a full on zip gun in the near future.
2) Deploy the rear oil and nail dispenser
3) If I have to slow down because of it, see #1
4) If they appear to be not from the area, no harm no foul. If they appear to be from the area, see #1
5) Pull up next to them, deploy the wheel mounted tire shredders
6) Not a big deal, I react to what they do, not their signal (or lack therof).
7a) Usually I just ignore these idiots.
7b) Turn my lights off and back on again as a signal to turn theirs on.
Obviously most everything I typed was in jest.
Really the only one that burns me up is #1, and that's only after an extended period of camping. Usually I will close up on them, realise they arent moving, and drop back. As the miles go by I start to close again, little by little and usually they start to feel the pressure, complete their pass and move. Sometimes they don't. If I can figure out a way by them on the right, I'll try it, but usually that means I now have to cut someone else off to do it which pisses me off because I know that the third innocent driver in the right lane is now pissed at me.
If I have ended up with a clear passing lane on the right then they usually get a 3rd/4th gear blast of a screaming V8 and a middle finger as I go by. Most of the time I can't do that, so they get a glare and a hand signal to stop camping and move to the right as I crawl by them.
There is one thing related to #7 that happens ALOT to 2005-2014 Mustang GT owners. People coming at us that flash their highbeams at us like a bunch of morons because our fog lights (some prefer to call them driving lights) are in our grills and not lower facias like on other cars. They are not bright, they do not blind you. What seems to set said morons off is that they see 4 lights on instead of 2. I don't just flash these morons back, I give them full on brights which cuts the fog lights off and with my model year gives them a painfully blinding dose of white HID lights. My hope is that I have taught them a lesson and that they won't do that to the next Mustang they see. Some say I overeact, but after getting flashed several times during a 12 minute drive home from work everyday it gets old, fast.
On most days, I couldn't give a shit about other dumb humans dumb human driving.
Every once in a while though, I make Satan himself blush with the string of obscenities uselessly shouted into the void because I was slightly inconvenienced.
It's mind boggling how driving turns most people into entitled pricks at some point in their lives, even if only for a moment.
Quote from: texaskdog on December 24, 2017, 04:47:26 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 23, 2017, 05:17:07 PM
Quote from: Brandon on December 22, 2017, 07:08:49 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 22, 2017, 02:23:59 PM
Quote from: Brandon on December 22, 2017, 12:29:16 PM
If we're all trying to merge, and they're trying to zipper, no problem. If they're stupid and racing past everyone before then lane ends, then fuck you, buddy.
"Zipper" implies waiting till the lane end, doesn't it? So aren't these two situations the same?
Um, no. Zipper implies that the person has found his spot and merges in smoothly. The stupid fool racing past everyone is just trying to bull his/her way in later. There is a distinct difference, and I've seen it from my time driving around Chicagoland.
Not according to my state's DOT.
Quote from: KDOT
What is a Zipper Merge?
When a lane is closed in a construction work zone, a 'zipper merge' occurs when drivers use both lanes of traffic up until reaching the defined merge area, where they then alternate turns in "zipper" fashion into the open lane.
When drivers see the “lane closed ahead” sign and traffic backing up, drivers should stay in their current lane up to the point of merge and then take turns with the other drivers to safely and smoothly merge into the remaining open lane.
What you call "racing past everyone ... trying to bull his/her way in later" is what the rest of us call "doing a zipper merge." If everyone else wants to get over early and then sit there for five extra minutes, no sweat off my back, I'll use the empty lane. And in so doing, I'll be the one doing a zipper merge.
Funny how everyone else gets over but the same idiots bully their way in every day, after I've been in the proper lane for 5 minutes. Screw those idiots.
So you bully them by trying to keep them out? Sorry, but that's not the answer.
And if "everyone else" gets over, then no one would be in the other lane. So no, not everyone gets over. Because you chose to doesn't mean you are the King of the Roads and we shall all bow to the way you choose to drive.
Quote from: texaskdog on December 24, 2017, 04:47:26 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 23, 2017, 05:17:07 PM
Quote from: Brandon on December 22, 2017, 07:08:49 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 22, 2017, 02:23:59 PM
Quote from: Brandon on December 22, 2017, 12:29:16 PM
If we're all trying to merge, and they're trying to zipper, no problem. If they're stupid and racing past everyone before then lane ends, then fuck you, buddy.
"Zipper" implies waiting till the lane end, doesn't it? So aren't these two situations the same?
Um, no. Zipper implies that the person has found his spot and merges in smoothly. The stupid fool racing past everyone is just trying to bull his/her way in later. There is a distinct difference, and I've seen it from my time driving around Chicagoland.
Not according to my state's DOT.
Quote from: KDOT
What is a Zipper Merge?
When a lane is closed in a construction work zone, a 'zipper merge' occurs when drivers use both lanes of traffic up until reaching the defined merge area, where they then alternate turns in "zipper" fashion into the open lane.
When drivers see the "lane closed ahead" sign and traffic backing up, drivers should stay in their current lane up to the point of merge and then take turns with the other drivers to safely and smoothly merge into the remaining open lane.
What you call "racing past everyone ... trying to bull his/her way in later" is what the rest of us call "doing a zipper merge." If everyone else wants to get over early and then sit there for five extra minutes, no sweat off my back, I'll use the empty lane. And in so doing, I'll be the one doing a zipper merge.
Funny how everyone else gets over but the same idiots bully their way in every day, after I've been in the proper lane for 5 minutes. Screw those idiots.
Who's the idiot? The one who spent 5 extra minutes in traffic for no reason.
Quote from: SP Cook on December 22, 2017, 10:09:55 AMNo headlights people at dusk, in my experience, are generally drunks or people with beater cars not wanting to alert the cops to the fact they have no or only on headlight. If you cannot afford basic repairs to your car, you cannot afford to own a car.
There are at least two other reasons for no headlights:
1) These days many dashboards are back-lit when the ignition is on. IOW, no difference in the dashboard's appearance whether it's day or night, leading some to neglect turning on their lights.
2) Daytime running lights. The driver sees some forward illumination, and thinks that's OK...but there are no lights in the rear at all (except for brake lights), and only the dimmed or smaller lights facing forward. The Massachusetts State Police recently issued a press release about this, saying "daytime running lights are NOT legal during times when headlights are required."
Quote1) These days many dashboards are back-lit when the ignition is on. IOW, no difference in the dashboard's appearance whether it's day or night, leading some to neglect turning on their lights.
^^ This! For the first six months or so after I got my 2012 Focus, which is the first car I've owned with "always on" dashboard illumination, I had several occasions where I would forget to turn my headlights on for exactly this reason. I'd usually figure out to turn on the lights weren't on within a couple of miles, but it was still disconcerting. File under "things designers never considered when adding new gimmicks but probably should have."
Quote from: roadman on January 25, 2018, 04:10:43 PM
Quote1) These days many dashboards are back-lit when the ignition is on. IOW, no difference in the dashboard's appearance whether it's day or night, leading some to neglect turning on their lights.
^^ This! For the first six months or so after I got my 2012 Focus, which is the first car I've owned with "always on" dashboard illumination, I had several occasions where I would forget to turn my headlights on for exactly this reason. I'd usually figure out to turn on the lights weren't on within a couple of miles, but it was still disconcerting. File under "things designers never considered when adding new gimmicks but probably should have."
My current car is smart enough to turn off headlight when ignition goes off, so my headlights are on all the time - I don't touch that switch, just keep it on. If that a bad idea? I don't think so.
Alternatively, there is an "auto" position for headlights switch - so the car can tell when it is too dark to turn lights on. Too complex of a system for my simple brain.
I use the auto feature with my 2013 car. It senses darkness and also turns on when wipers are in use. The only times I touch my headlight controls is to switch to high beams and back, and occasionally manually turn on in fog. When other people (service/repair, family members) use the car they tend to turn the headlights on which I sometimes don't notice for awhile.
Same here for the auto feature.
If I were to do it manually, however, I would know that my headlights are not on becuase my gauges would just be the standard white numerals on a black dial. When the lights come on the gauges change to whatever color I have them set at (right now the numbers are green with a red halo, a left over from the holidays).
Quote from: SidS1045 on January 25, 2018, 03:11:31 PM
1) These days many dashboards are back-lit when the ignition is on. IOW, no difference in the dashboard's appearance whether it's day or night, leading some to neglect turning on their lights.
My first car did not have a back-lit dashboard or auto lights, and I often found myself turning my lights on when I was stopped under freeway overpasses, because I couldn't see the dashboard!
Quote from: bzakharin on January 25, 2018, 04:39:57 PM
I use the auto feature with my 2013 car. It senses darkness and also turns on when wipers are in use. The only times I touch my headlight controls is to switch to high beams and back, and occasionally manually turn on in fog. When other people (service/repair, family members) use the car they tend to turn the headlights on which I sometimes don't notice for awhile.
I now have an auto feature, and I use the manual lights for exactly the same two reasons. In thick fog, it's often not dark enough to trigger the auto lights. In order to use the high beams, I have to switch the regular lights from auto to manual on.
Also, my lights don't turn on automatically with the wipers. I wish they did.
1 Left Lane Camping
About a 10. I get annoyed by it and don't like being annoyed. I use the right lane to pass if I have to then wonder why that driver chooses to remain in the left lane when they aren't passing anyone.
2 Tailgating
Probably about an 8 or so. If someone is doing it purposely then I get angry and just move to the other lane if I can just to get rid of them.
3 Cutting In (to get to the left lane)
Doesn't bother me much if it's done right.
4 Cutting In (to take an immediate exit)
Same as 3.
5 Talking/Texting on Phone
If the person can focus on the road and the phone at the same time which I can at times depending on traffic it doesn't bother me as much but it seems like they tend to slow down quite a bit and then you see them on their cell phone that's kind of annoying but as long as they are driving on the right it doesn't bother me how slow they are driving.
6 No Signal or Excessive Signal
That's a 10. I think I get more annoyed by the excessive signal more than the no signal but the no signal bothers me more in lots of traffic. I don't use a signal if there are no cars around.
7 High Beams or No Headlights
About a 10. The thing is you can't see the no headlights ones and get blinded by the high beams ones.
Quote from: SidS1045 on January 25, 2018, 03:11:31 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on December 22, 2017, 10:09:55 AMNo headlights people at dusk, in my experience, are generally drunks or people with beater cars not wanting to alert the cops to the fact they have no or only on headlight. If you cannot afford basic repairs to your car, you cannot afford to own a car.
There are at least two other reasons for no headlights:
1) These days many dashboards are back-lit when the ignition is on. IOW, no difference in the dashboard's appearance whether it's day or night, leading some to neglect turning on their lights.
....
My dashboard gauges do that (nothing visible when car is off, then they light up when you turn it on), but at night the gauges are extremely bright if the headlights aren't on–when you turn on the lights, the gauges dim. For this reason I find it hard to picture backlit dashboard gauges having the same brightness both day and night.
The people I really don't understand are the ones who drive around with just the parking lights at dusk or at night. I don't see the point.
Quote from: roadman on January 25, 2018, 04:10:43 PMThis! For the first six months or so after I got my 2012 Focus, which is the first car I've owned with "always on" dashboard illumination, I had several occasions where I would forget to turn my headlights on for exactly this reason. I'd usually figure out to turn on the lights weren't on within a couple of miles, but it was still disconcerting. File under "things designers never considered when adding new gimmicks but probably should have."
I suspect design choices like this often reflect a deliberate attempt to re-shape drivers' habits rather than simple failure to think of ergonomic concerns. Every car I have ever driven that has auto dashboard illumination (always on when the engine is running) both dims the gauges when the headlamps are on, and illuminates a headlamps-on indicator. The clear expectation with newer cars is that drivers will check for the headlamps-on indicator before they exit the car.
My daily driver (1994 Saturn SL2) is the last car in the family fleet with no automation of headlamps or dashboard illumination and also no headlamps-on idiot light. The roadtrip car (2005 Toyota Camry) has auto headlamps that are tied not only to gauge cluster lighting but also to the courtesy lighting system. This means that if the car is parked and a door or trunk is opened during the headlamp delay period, the headlamps will not turn off until all doors and the trunk are closed. Since the headlamps are an enormous battery drain, I often turn the headlamp switch from AUTO to OFF and back to AUTO again just to get rid of the courtesy illumination when I am in a well-lit parking lot and have the trunk open for an extended period.
The prevalence of auto headlamps in newer cars has also given rise to an annoying problem: people park their cars at the curb after dark, having essentially finished their trips, and then sit futzing with their phones--often with the engine running and wasting gas--so that the headlamps don't turn off and continue to blind other people coming down the street.
As regards car lighting design in general, I really object to GM using the backup lamps as part of the remote keyless entry system, as this fools passing drivers into thinking the vehicle is about to back up when its engine is not even running. GM's stated excuse for this design choice (which is essentially unique to GM and attracts much criticism on auto forums) is that it alerts passing motorists to young children who may be running out to a just-unlocked vehicle without first checking for traffic. I think this amounts to crying wolf and sets the stage for parking-lot collisions in cases where the GM vehicle is occupied, the engine is running, and the driver is actually about to reverse out.
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 26, 2018, 11:45:08 AMMy dashboard gauges do that (nothing visible when car is off, then they light up when you turn it on), but at night the gauges are extremely bright if the headlights aren't on–when you turn on the lights, the gauges dim. For this reason I find it hard to picture backlit dashboard gauges having the same brightness both day and night.
I would be extremely surprised if your car didn't also have a headlamps-on idiot light.
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 26, 2018, 11:45:08 AMThe people I really don't understand are the ones who drive around with just the parking lights at dusk or at night. I don't see the point.
I do, and in some jurisdictions (notably Britain) this is legal. The general idea is that your low beams are unnecessarily dazzling to other drivers when the street lighting provides adequate illumination. Nowadays even in Britain it is the norm to drive with low beams on even where there is street lighting, but the option to use parking lights only still exists and the dazzle concern gave rise to a short-lived experiment with "dim-dip" headlamps in the late 1980's, which Britain was forced to abandon in order to comply with EU homologation requirements.
In Britain, if you have an automatic and are waiting at a stoplight, it is still considered polite to take the transmission out of gear and set the parking brake--instead of leaving the transmission in Drive and using the service brake to restrain creep--so that your brake lights do not dazzle drivers that draw up behind you.
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 26, 2018, 11:46:37 AM
The clear expectation with newer cars is that drivers will check for the headlamps-on indicator before they exit the car.
Of course my car is different from yours - but I do not touch headlights switch or look at dashbord indicator, and I believe it is designed that way.
Switch is always on low beams. Headlights go off when I turn off ignition. If I want headlights with car not running, I have to go off-on. That turns on headlights and initiate an audible alarm.
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 26, 2018, 11:54:46 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 26, 2018, 11:45:08 AMMy dashboard gauges do that (nothing visible when car is off, then they light up when you turn it on), but at night the gauges are extremely bright if the headlights aren't on–when you turn on the lights, the gauges dim. For this reason I find it hard to picture backlit dashboard gauges having the same brightness both day and night.
I would be extremely surprised if your car didn't also have a headlamps-on idiot light.
It does, the standard green headlights-on indicator most Honda/Acura vehicles use. I didn't mention it because I didn't think it was relevant to the point I was making.
Quote from: kalvado on January 26, 2018, 11:58:09 AMOf course my car is different from yours - but I do not touch headlights switch or look at dashbord indicator, and I believe it is designed that way.
Switch is always on low beams. Headlights go off when I turn off ignition. If I want headlights with car not running, I have to go off-on. That turns on headlights and initiate an audible alarm.
It sounds like you have auto headlamps without courtesy illumination. The family fleet also includes a 2009 Honda Fit that has no auto headlamps, no courtesy lighting, and no battery protection that turns headlamps off when the car has been idle for a long period of time. In that case avoiding battery rundown (for a deaf driver) means either checking the headlamps-on indicator or walking past the headlights while leaving the car.
One of several reasons I now park nose-out whenever possible is to make the lights harder to ignore as I walk away from the car.
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 26, 2018, 12:32:56 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 26, 2018, 11:58:09 AMOf course my car is different from yours - but I do not touch headlights switch or look at dashbord indicator, and I believe it is designed that way.
Switch is always on low beams. Headlights go off when I turn off ignition. If I want headlights with car not running, I have to go off-on. That turns on headlights and initiate an audible alarm.
It sounds like you have auto headlamps without courtesy illumination. The family fleet also includes a 2009 Honda Fit that has no auto headlamps, no courtesy lighting, and no battery protection that turns headlamps off when the car has been idle for a long period of time. In that case avoiding battery rundown (for a deaf driver) means either checking the headlamps-on indicator or walking past the headlights while leaving the car.
One of several reasons I now park nose-out whenever possible is to make the lights harder to ignore as I walk away from the car.
It is not "auto" - that is different setting. My headlights are "on". And there is a full battery protection ( with override option) - so I don't need to check..
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 26, 2018, 12:27:07 PMIt does, the standard green headlights-on indicator most Honda/Acura vehicles use. I didn't mention it because I didn't think it was relevant to the point I was making.
I wanted to direct attention to the headlamps-on indicator because the difference in gauge cluster lighting between headlamps-on (usually night) and headlamps-off is often too subtle to see easily under direct sunlight. For compliance purposes it is often necessary to deploy headlamps during the day--e.g. during rainstorms in jurisdictions that require the headlamps to be on when wipers are necessary, or when driving in a safety corridor with a mandatory daytime headlamp use requirement. In such cases the headlamps-on indicator may be all that stands between the driver and an unintentionally discharged battery.
I am happy the roadtrip car has headlamp DRL because this allows me to dispose of compliance requirements without having to take the headlamps out of auto mode. In newer cars this will no longer be the case because it is now required that DRL be provided from fixtures visually separate from the headlamps, to prevent precisely this trick of using DRL to fake low-beam headlamp use.
Quote from: kalvado on January 26, 2018, 12:38:02 PMIt is not "auto" - that is different setting. My headlights are "on". And there is a full battery protection (with override option) - so I don't need to check.
If you don't mind me asking, which model is this?
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 26, 2018, 12:49:37 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 26, 2018, 12:27:07 PMIt does, the standard green headlights-on indicator most Honda/Acura vehicles use. I didn't mention it because I didn't think it was relevant to the point I was making.
I wanted to direct attention to the headlamps-on indicator because the difference in gauge cluster lighting between headlamps-on (usually night) and headlamps-off is often too subtle to see easily under direct sunlight. For compliance purposes it is often necessary to deploy headlamps during the day--e.g. during rainstorms in jurisdictions that require the headlamps to be on when wipers are necessary, or when driving in a safety corridor with a mandatory daytime headlamp use requirement. In such cases the headlamps-on indicator may be all that stands between the driver and an unintentionally discharged battery.
I am happy the roadtrip car has headlamp DRL because this allows me to dispose of compliance requirements without having to take the headlamps out of auto mode. In newer cars this will no longer be the case because it is now required that DRL be provided from fixtures visually separate from the headlamps, to prevent precisely this trick of using DRL to fake low-beam headlamp use.
In my 2012 Focus, if you shut the ignition off with the headlights on, the headlights go out and only the parking lights remain illuminated. You also get a buzzer alarm when you open the door to remind you the headlight switch is still on.
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 26, 2018, 12:51:49 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 26, 2018, 12:38:02 PMIt is not "auto" - that is different setting. My headlights are "on". And there is a full battery protection (with override option) - so I don't need to check.
If you don't mind me asking, which model is this?
Subaru Legacy 2017
Quote from: SidS1045 on January 25, 2018, 03:11:31 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on December 22, 2017, 10:09:55 AMNo headlights people at dusk, in my experience, are generally drunks or people with beater cars not wanting to alert the cops to the fact they have no or only on headlight. If you cannot afford basic repairs to your car, you cannot afford to own a car.
There are at least two other reasons for no headlights:
1) These days many dashboards are back-lit when the ignition is on. IOW, no difference in the dashboard's appearance whether it's day or night, leading some to neglect turning on their lights.
2) Daytime running lights. The driver sees some forward illumination, and thinks that's OK...but there are no lights in the rear at all (except for brake lights), and only the dimmed or smaller lights facing forward. The Massachusetts State Police recently issued a press release about this, saying "daytime running lights are NOT legal during times when headlights are required."
Are they legal during the daytime when the wipers are in use? CT allows DRLs in lieu of headlights in that situation.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on January 28, 2018, 07:01:50 PM
Quote from: SidS1045 on January 25, 2018, 03:11:31 PM
2) Daytime running lights. The driver sees some forward illumination, and thinks that's OK...but there are no lights in the rear at all (except for brake lights), and only the dimmed or smaller lights facing forward. The Massachusetts State Police recently issued a press release about this, saying "daytime running lights are NOT legal during times when headlights are required."
Are they legal during the daytime when the wipers are in use? CT allows DRLs in lieu of headlights in that situation.
Not in NYS. From the driver manual:
QuoteNew York State law requires you to turn on your headlights when the weather conditions require the use of windshield wipers to clear rain, snow, sleet or fog. "Daytime lights" do not qualify as headlights.
The way I explain that to myself - you're turning on lights to make car visible to other drivers. So rear lights are essential - but they come on only with full headlights, not daylights.
Around here, the biggest thing for me would be people yielding to traffic instead of merging into traffic. Common around here considering there aren't any freeways.
Texting and driving.
I just try not to think about it too much when I drive and make sure I don't do those things myself.
Moving over to pass a slowpoke on the right. Apparently, a guy behind me who I had no idea was full of road rage and though I cut him off and blocked him from a smooth flow. When he got beside me he gave me the finger and I reciprocated. He did not like that and got in front of me and put his brakes on fast, however I did not slow down.
I do not know what I was thinking as if I hit him, regardless of provocation I would be responsible for the collision and if he got whiplash (hard to prove or disprove) I could be paying him money forever. Anyway, never mess with road rage. I have enough assholes at my plaza where I collect money from people who did not know they were on a toll road despite all the ramps with the TOLL SR FL Shields on them. You point that out and they get into a fit even if you ask them if they have a quarter when they are 25 cents short to pay a simple priced toll. I seen one guy go after another toll collector when she disbelieved the guy had no coins in his pocket to fulfill the $2.50 toll with threats to get her fired for preaching morals to him.
Let another go if they piss you off as 98 percent of them are full of rage.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on January 28, 2018, 07:01:50 PMAre they legal during the daytime when the wipers are in use?
Not in MA. The law says "headlights" must be illuminated when wipers are in use.
Drivers in snow: avoid the busy snowy roads at all costs. It frustrates me to no end.