What would you consider to be the worst 4-way/all-way STOP sign controlled intersections?
There are a couple on Spencer St just west of I-41 in Appleton's unincorporated west township area that I curse at every time that I drive through them, mainly at the township for their utter cheapness in not either installing signals or replacing them with roundabouts. There are times when traffic at the easternmost of the two (Nicolet Rd) will back up on Spencer St to points well east from its I-41 undercrossing.
When I roadtripped through the area back in the mid-1990s, there was an intersection turn on US 151 (two suburban-style four lane roads intersecting) in Marion, IA (just outside of Cedar Rapids, IA) that was 4-way STOP sign controlled. It has since been signalized.
What are some of yours?
Mike
I forget who said it, but someone on this forum says that there are way too many 4-way stops in southeastern Pennsylvania. These are intersections where 4-way stops are more than what's needed, not less.
One of the worst ones I can remember is the intersection of Main St S and 11th Avenue (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.5618537,-93.2253668,18.12z) in Cambridge, MN used to be a two way stop (11th Ave traffic stopped). But the amount of traffic, plus the railroad tracks immediately east of the intersection, lead to backups. It was easily the worst part I remember about coming and going to school every day. Eventually, sometime when I was in middle school (mid 2000s) the city turned it into a four way stop, which was better but still sucked. Finally in 2009 the city installed a signal there, which you can see in Street View (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.5619829,-93.2254013,3a,75y,184.88h,94.94t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sMzveRVknmW3L8tyvP--soQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DMzveRVknmW3L8tyvP--soQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D42.989902%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i3328!8i1664).
My top three, all in the Madison, WI area:
Rattman Rd/American Pkwy @ Hoepker Rd (https://goo.gl/maps/xYja8pXKpq42)
Milwaukee St @ Sprecher Rd (https://goo.gl/maps/F4yVrX2Ew3J2)
Both of the above have too many lanes, regardless of how many stop signs you post. Obviously they're planning for future growth, and plan to signalize it eventually (equipment is mostly there already, despite not meeting warrants, at least the last time they studied it).
Regent St @ Speedway Rd/Highland Ave (https://goo.gl/maps/Bd3ZyUSpUHJ2) This one's been high on the city's signal priority list (https://www.cityofmadison.com/trafficEngineering/documents/CurrentTrafficSignalPriortyList.pdf), but slips by without any changes year after year.
Honorable mention:
Linnerud Dr @ OKeeffe Ave, Sun Prairie, WI (https://goo.gl/maps/7xwpTugLK8P2). A freshly-minted all-way stop. I've seen the fire department called to this site twice in the last week alone. Walmart driveway...enough said. :rolleyes:
Quote from: mgk920 on December 24, 2017, 10:46:23 AM
What would you consider to be the worst 4-way/all-way STOP sign controlled intersections?
There are a couple on Spencer St just west of I-41 in Appleton's unincorporated west township area that I curse at every time that I drive through them, mainly at the township for their utter cheapness in not either installing signals or replacing them with roundabouts. There are times when traffic at the easternmost of the two (Nicolet Rd) will back up on Spencer St to points well east from its I-41 undercrossing.
When I roadtripped through the area back in the mid-1990s, there was an intersection turn on US 151 (two suburban-style four lane roads intersecting) in Marion, IA (just outside of Cedar Rapids, IA) that was 4-way STOP sign controlled. It has since been signalized.
What are some of yours?
Mike
The least functional one of which I am aware was subsequently replaced, first by a traffic light, soon to be replaced by an interchange. This was at the junction of CASR-58 and US-395 in San Bernardino county, California. If CHP couldn't get out to allow bypass of it on Memorial Day afternoons, it could cause a backup all of the way to Omaha! (realistically all of the way back to I-15)
Whenever I make my way back to the part of Northern Illinois generally centered around DeKalb, there seem to be a lot of 4 way stops where I question the need for it. Each Illinois state route intersection that's not in town is a 4 way stop regardless of whether it needs it.
M-46 and Algoma Ave near Cedar Springs. Somewhat unusual for there to be a 4-way stop at an intersection of a state highway and a county road
I'm going to come back to this likely but in my home town (Sherwood) the worst is Sunset Blvd. and Snyder Park/Aldergrove lane. Its hard to see the stop signs especially before they installed warning lights. It's a lot better now but still has the most stop sign runs in Sherwood.
Layton and 124th at the border of Greenfield and New Berlin. To and from the west on Layton feeds into on and off ramps to I-43. This intersection is a nightmare during peak times. It's beyond me why a traffic light was never put there many years ago.
I loathe four-way stops with multiple lanes in each direction. It is unrealistic to expect people to keep track of who got there first, when there are eight or more lanes to deal with.
This one in Wichita (https://goo.gl/maps/DJanrjBYnHm), with 14 lanes meeting at the intersection, is now a stoplight (thank goodness). When it was still a four-way, I hated it.
Quote from: kphoger on December 26, 2017, 11:07:15 AM
I loathe four-way stops with multiple lanes in each direction. It is unrealistic to expect people to keep track of who got there first, when there are eight or more lanes to deal with.
This one in Wichita (https://goo.gl/maps/DJanrjBYnHm), with 14 lanes meeting at the intersection, is now a stoplight (thank goodness). When it was still a four-way, I hated it.
Why does who got there first matter? When an intersection is like that, you should always be going with the opposing person... and there seems to be no "set order" of who goes next, its just chaos.
Quote from: UCFKnights on December 26, 2017, 12:51:43 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 26, 2017, 11:07:15 AM
I loathe four-way stops with multiple lanes in each direction. It is unrealistic to expect people to keep track of who got there first, when there are eight or more lanes to deal with.
This one in Wichita (https://goo.gl/maps/DJanrjBYnHm), with 14 lanes meeting at the intersection, is now a stoplight (thank goodness). When it was still a four-way, I hated it.
Why does who got there first matter? When an intersection is like that, you should always be going with the opposing person... and there seems to be no "set order" of who goes next, its just chaos.
Your profile says you live in Florida. Here is the law in your state:
Quote from: 2017 Florida Statutes, Title XXIII, §316.123 Vehicles entering stop or yield intersection
(1) The right-of-way at an intersection may be indicated by stop signs or yield signs as authorized in s. 316.006.
(b) At a four-way stop intersection, the driver of the first vehicle to stop at the intersection shall be the first to proceed. If two or more vehicles reach the four-way stop intersection at the same time, the driver of the vehicle on the left shall yield the right-of-way to the vehicle on the right.
So the law expects every driver to keep track of whether each of the other vehicles got to the stop sign before or after theirs, and also whether each of them is to the left or right, and then all agree on what order to proceed in. So there
is a set order, but still ends up being chaos.
US-12 in Genoa City, Wisconsin from 70-MPH freeway to stop sign
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on December 26, 2017, 03:12:39 PM
US-12 in Genoa City, Wisconsin...
...is not a 4-way STOP sign controlled intersection. And it also goes down to a 55mph speed limit before the intersection.
My biggest complaint about all way stops on multi-lane roads is that you often cant see if there is a vehicle at some of the other approaches because you cant see thru somebody's huge fing SUV. Multi-lane all way stops are dysfunctional bs and should be illegal
The Church Hill neighborhood in Richmond is littered with 4-way stops (and roundabouts, some of which replaced 4-ways) to the point where even the easternmost mile or so of Broad St is also littered with them. Broad St outside of this neighborhood is the main and most heavily developed arterial in Richmond as well as neighboring Henrico County.
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on December 26, 2017, 03:12:39 PM
US-12 in Genoa City, Wisconsin from 70-MPH freeway to stop sign
Is that even legal?
Quote from: Hurricane Rex on December 27, 2017, 04:01:41 AM
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on December 26, 2017, 03:12:39 PM
US-12 in Genoa City, Wisconsin from 70-MPH freeway to stop sign
Is that even legal?
Find the law/rule that says it's not.
And to give that a little comparison...it's not much different than being on a highway and hitting congestion...which is basically going from 70/75 mph to a stop condition...without the benefit of a stop sign!
Quote from: Hurricane Rex on December 27, 2017, 04:01:41 AM
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on December 26, 2017, 03:12:39 PM
US-12 in Genoa City, Wisconsin from 70-MPH freeway to stop sign
Is that even legal?
It's the end of a freeway that IDOT neglected to complete. The stop sign in question was supposed to be the end of an exit ramp.
https://goo.gl/maps/h9G72mfXqBp
https://goo.gl/maps/LaYWPzfSNb82
Quote from: Brandon on December 27, 2017, 07:23:44 AM
Quote from: Hurricane Rex on December 27, 2017, 04:01:41 AM
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on December 26, 2017, 03:12:39 PM
US-12 in Genoa City, Wisconsin from 70-MPH freeway to stop sign
Is that even legal?
It's the end of a freeway that IDOT neglected to complete. The stop sign in question was supposed to be the end of an exit ramp.
https://goo.gl/maps/h9G72mfXqBp
https://goo.gl/maps/LaYWPzfSNb82
As I mentioned up-thread, it's not even 70 mph at the end of it. The limit
drops to 55 mph (https://goo.gl/maps/agVApG4i8e52) a mile in advance of the stop sign.
Thing with that US-12 one, at least the SB approach has elements that makes it feel like a ramp so a traffic control at the crossroad is not entirely unexpected. The E-W movement is on a divided facility - if anything that would be an even worse violation of driver expectancy.
Quote from: cbeach40 on December 27, 2017, 12:20:20 PM
Thing with that US-12 one, at least the SB approach has elements that makes it feel like a ramp so a traffic control at the crossroad is not entirely unexpected.
There are a billion warning signs (I'm rounding) approaching the intersection, too. Two of them for the stop sign itself, plus rumble strips. And the approach curve has a 35mph advisory tab.
Quote from: cbeach40 on December 27, 2017, 12:20:20 PM
The E-W movement is on a divided facility - if anything that would be an even worse violation of driver expectancy.
Meh, it's only divided for less than a half-mile before the stop sign, and the speed limit is 45 mph.
Quote from: kphoger on December 26, 2017, 03:27:25 PM
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on December 26, 2017, 03:12:39 PM
US-12 in Genoa City, Wisconsin...
...is not a 4-way STOP sign controlled intersection. And it also goes down to a 55mph speed limit before the intersection.
M-55 and M-37 meet at a 4-way STOP and both roads have 65 mph speed limits
I will echo what others have said regarding four-way stops on roads with more than two lanes. Fortunately, there are none of these in my area. However, Lakeville, MN, is full of these, and it bugs me to no end every time I visit.
I mapped this route (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/801+Plank+Rd,+Penfield,+NY+14526/Shoecraft+Rd+%26+Plank+Rd,+New+York/Shoecraft+Rd+%26+County+Rd+9,+Webster,+NY+14580/County+Rd+20,+County+Rd+9,+Webster,+NY+14580/Jackson+Rd+%26+Plank+Rd,+New+York/Salt+Rd+%26+NY-286,+New+York/43.1596561,-77.3975326/@43.169219,-77.4626757,13.25z/data=!4m39!4m38!1m5!1m1!1s0x89d6c954a3d7b6d5:0x9346e21c23012ae6!2m2!1d-77.4722794!2d43.1822884!1m5!1m1!1s0x89d6ceaec599669b:0x241a770d848e0d!2m2!1d-77.4625104!2d43.1822636!1m5!1m1!1s0x89d6ceae2677d0f3:0x40260d0fbc7a590b!2m2!1d-77.4624352!2d43.1860952!1m5!1m1!1s0x89d6ceeb0d863579:0x42600431580c76ce!2m2!1d-77.4431649!2d43.1955759!1m5!1m1!1s0x89d6ce99a6a26b35:0x689c29855527445a!2m2!1d-77.4433804!2d43.1821474!1m5!1m1!1s0x89d6cde8108c7eb1:0x809ad68a93897a3f!2m2!1d-77.4005372!2d43.1596422!1m0!3e0), on which the waypoints are problematic four-way stops. I'd like to see all of these replaced with roundabouts.
This (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2084045,-77.3008195,3a,75y,2.43h,80.07t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sR_CiKPc7VROE8EdlmRSqAA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) is also rather strange, considering traffic on NY-350 has to stop for basically no reason.
Quote from: ftballfan on December 24, 2017, 10:30:58 PM
M-46 and Algoma Ave near Cedar Springs. Somewhat unusual for there to be a 4-way stop at an intersection of a state highway and a county road
I was wondering where one would be at in Michigan. As much as I travel around this state I would have thought I knew of a real bad one. I haven't been on that stretch of M-46 in years though so I wasn't even aware of it.
M-46 on the eastern side of Michigan:
M-46 and M-15 both meet at a 4 way stop but both routes are 40 mph and M-15 crosses M-46 on an angle.
M-46 and M-53 meet at a 4 way stop.
I'm not sure if these are the worst. The one with M-46 and M-15 might be a bad one to someone else but for me it's not a bad one.
There are some along M-57 such as it's intersections with M-13 and M-52 but those really aren't bad one's either, they are just state highways intersecting pretty much in the middle of nowhere.
85th and Prospect in Kansas City, MO.
It used to have standard traffic signals as you can see in this GSV image from 2008.
https://goo.gl/maps/JvwUCrTarwB2 (https://goo.gl/maps/JvwUCrTarwB2)
Now, in this shot from April 2017, the signal lights are long gone. I'd say it's about time to remove the, "Signal Scheduled for Removal," notice.
https://goo.gl/maps/rjd8rJEqeY62 (https://goo.gl/maps/rjd8rJEqeY62)
The previous arrangement was unusual in it's function. There are Union Pacific tracks running diagonally that cross both streets. If you go to the satellite view from either of those street views you will see what I am talking about.
A minute or so before a train would come through the traffic signals would begin flashing red for all directions. Then the boom barriers would drop and the RR signals would flash.
I am not sure if this is a standard practice for other similar RR crossings or if it's just something KCMO and UP dreamed up.
Anyway, now it's a four way stop for reasons I am not privy to.
An interesting side note for railroad enthusiasts. There is a stub north and east of the intersection in the sat view where one of the UP Gas Turbine Electric locomotives sat for several years.
Kalamazoo Ave and 84th St in Gaines Township, south of Grand Rapids: https://goo.gl/maps/j2PEzvxcnHF2
As of 2015, still a four way stop, despite the township offices being on the SW corner and a megachurch being on the NE corner. I wouldn't be surprised to see this become a stoplight soon with South Christian HS soon to be relocating to Kalamazoo just north of this intersection (which will open at the site in fall 2019): https://www.schs.org/building-update-video-7/
There is also one at M-83's northern terminus at M-15.
SAMSUNG-SM-J727A
Some more that are bad (especially those between state highways and local roads):
M-20 at Oceana Drive (Oceana County): https://goo.gl/maps/gnJXWFEwAE52 [Oceana Drive was US-31, but the US-31 freeway in that area dates back to the mid 1970s]
US-10 at M-66 (Osceola County): https://goo.gl/maps/yxQzAvNB3bn
Can't think of any in Washtenaw County, since they seem to love roundabouts as much as Germans love David Hasselhoff
Quote from: ftballfan on December 31, 2017, 02:32:55 PM
Some more that are bad (especially those between state highways and local roads):
M-20 at Oceana Drive (Oceana County): https://goo.gl/maps/gnJXWFEwAE52 [Oceana Drive was US-31, but the US-31 freeway in that area dates back to the mid 1970s]
US-10 at M-66 (Osceola County): https://goo.gl/maps/yxQzAvNB3bn
Can't think of any in Washtenaw County, since they seem to love roundabouts as much as Germans love David Hasselhoff
There are so many in Michigan that I can't think of either. I've recalled all the one's I can think of currently though. When I made my last post about M-83 and M-15 I was at the stop sign when I made my post and a few minutes before that was at the four way stop at M-15 and M-46. There is also a four way stop at M-15 and M-81 and that one is rather bad because M-15 is a four lane divided highway in that stretch and M-81 is a two lane highway. I was coming off of M-15 making a left onto M-81 and couldn't figure out if I came up to the sign first or if the oncoming car I was waiting for did. It seems like M-15 has a lot of the four way stop signs along with M-46. M-15 has another dangerous feature to it as well, just south of I-69 it crosses Lippencott and has an S curve that is among the most dangerous stretch of highway in Michigan.
I'm going with M-15 and M-81 for my area.
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4503334,-83.754649,3a,75y,334.09h,88.69t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skffyV1M-gfyWnH_TZDx_Lw!2e0!7i3328!8i1664
Quote from: 1 on December 24, 2017, 10:48:57 AMI forget who said it, but someone on this forum says that there are way too many 4-way stops in southeastern Pennsylvania. These are intersections where 4-way stops are more than what's needed, not less.
That would be me. The majority of these were clearly erected for speed-control/traffic calming purposes; which most of us here know is an MUTCD
no-no.
Quote from: DandyDan on December 24, 2017, 10:03:27 PM
Whenever I make my way back to the part of Northern Illinois generally centered around DeKalb, there seem to be a lot of 4 way stops where I question the need for it. Each Illinois state route intersection that's not in town is a 4 way stop regardless of whether it needs it.
Don't get me started. My brother in law used to live in Kinsman, about 15-20 miles north of DeKalb, and it seems that on Annie Glidden Rd. between the two towns there's a stop sign every mile.
Quote from: inkyatari on January 02, 2018, 03:11:41 PM
Quote from: DandyDan on December 24, 2017, 10:03:27 PM
Whenever I make my way back to the part of Northern Illinois generally centered around DeKalb, there seem to be a lot of 4 way stops where I question the need for it. Each Illinois state route intersection that's not in town is a 4 way stop regardless of whether it needs it.
Don't get me started. My brother in law used to live in Kinsman, about 15-20 miles north of DeKalb, and it seems that on Annie Glidden Rd. between the two towns there's a stop sign every mile.
I'll assume you meant Kingston, not Kinsman.
Out of curiosity, I checked this out. Starting at the intersection with Dresser Road...
1 mile to Bethany Road – 4-way stop
½ mile to Rich Road – 4-way stop
2 miles to Route 64 – 4-way stop
1 mile to Old State Road – 4-way stop
5½ miles to Route 72 – 4-way stop
Quote from: kphoger on January 02, 2018, 03:23:07 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on January 02, 2018, 03:11:41 PM
Quote from: DandyDan on December 24, 2017, 10:03:27 PM
Whenever I make my way back to the part of Northern Illinois generally centered around DeKalb, there seem to be a lot of 4 way stops where I question the need for it. Each Illinois state route intersection that's not in town is a 4 way stop regardless of whether it needs it.
Don't get me started. My brother in law used to live in Kinsman, about 15-20 miles north of DeKalb, and it seems that on Annie Glidden Rd. between the two towns there's a stop sign every mile.
I'll assume you meant Kingston, not Kinsman.
Out of curiosity, I checked this out. Starting at the intersection with Dresser Road...
1 mile to Bethany Road – 4-way stop
½ mile to Rich Road – 4-way stop
2 miles to Route 64 – 4-way stop
1 mile to Old State Road – 4-way stop
5½ miles to Route 72 – 4-way stop
Duh. I live near Kinsman. He lived in Kingston.
https://goo.gl/maps/cAq3Fp8AQBU2 -
Asbury Rd/University Ave in Dubuque - The latter has 4 lanes and it's always chaos for who goes first.
Quote from: SSOWorld on January 02, 2018, 10:47:44 PM
https://goo.gl/maps/cAq3Fp8AQBU2 -
Asbury Rd/University Ave in Dubuque - The latter has 4 lanes and it's always chaos for who goes first.
And a Stop sign set back from the intersection on a telephone pole, with no stop bar! https://goo.gl/maps/qfrWMvME4gT2
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 03, 2018, 06:18:54 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld on January 02, 2018, 10:47:44 PM
https://goo.gl/maps/cAq3Fp8AQBU2 -
Asbury Rd/University Ave in Dubuque - The latter has 4 lanes and it's always chaos for who goes first.
And a Stop sign set back from the intersection on a telephone pole, with no stop bar! https://goo.gl/maps/qfrWMvME4gT2
Is also not a
4-way STOP sign controlled intersection.
A lot of these state highways intersect in the middle of nowhere for the most part.
M-52 has a nightly four way stop with Swan Creek Road a few miles south of it's northern terminus. During the day it's a normal traffic light.
Quote from: Flint1979 on January 03, 2018, 09:59:39 PM
A lot of these state highways intersect in the middle of nowhere for the most part.
In my opinion that is in fact
why they are problematic/annoying. Slowdowns are expected in urban areas, in rural areas to stop unnecessarily is an inconvenience. In many cases, these would be better served by a roundabout, or a two-way stop with no traffic control on the busier route.
Quote from: webny99 on January 03, 2018, 10:55:57 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on January 03, 2018, 09:59:39 PM
A lot of these state highways intersect in the middle of nowhere for the most part.
In my opinion that is in fact why they are problematic/annoying. Slowdowns are expected in urban areas, in rural areas to stop unnecessarily is an inconvenience. In many cases, these would be better served by a roundabout, or a two-way stop with no traffic control on the busier route.
One example I can think of where there is a roundabout is M-115 and M-37.
Then you have M-37 and M-55 intersecting in the middle of the Manistee National Forest at a four way stop.
M-46 and M-66 multiplex for about 3-4 miles, the western end of the multiplex has a regular traffic light while the eastern end has a stop sign for M-66 but not M-46, then continues north as a county road still called Sheridan Road until it runs as the county line between Isabella and Mecosta Counties.
In Lake Buena Vista, FL you have Palm Parkway and Lake Street have a four way intersection that has too many cars going to figure out who is first. The intersection was only a ruse to get motorists traveling 45 mph on Palm Parkway to slow down to the 30 mph speed zone in the resort section. The intersection is at the change in speeds.
Then Deerfield Blvd. at Balmcome Road in Southchase is outlived its use. A signal needs to be erected with all the traffic that transits it.
Figured it would be better to bump this thread rather than start a new one, but I found one while browsing around on Google Maps today.
The intersection of MS-15/MS-25 and MS-14. MS-25 is a mostly free flowing, 4 lane, divided 65 MPH expressway, with many grade separated interchanges. How this ended up here, I have no idea. As far as I can tell, the Speed Limit is still 65 through the intersection, too, not like the highway drops to 35 then meanders through town (that would be pretty standard, and a 4 way stop wouldn't be too shocking in that situation).
(https://i.imgur.com/LsoaEpP.png)
GSV Link (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.1246794,-89.0861878,3a,75y,176.64h,81.81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syUt--8LhKaFM-GOIdIZ9Ww!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
The intersection of Chestnut Street/Emerson Street in Wakefield, MA is, IMO, the most unwarranted 4 way stop in the entire country. Ironically, the neighborhood has recently raised a fuss about people disregarding stop signs in the area in general. Gee, I wonder why that is? /s
Quote from: PHLBOS on January 02, 2018, 02:35:04 PM
Quote from: 1 on December 24, 2017, 10:48:57 AMI forget who said it, but someone on this forum says that there are way too many 4-way stops in southeastern Pennsylvania. These are intersections where 4-way stops are more than what's needed, not less.
That would be me. The majority of these were clearly erected for speed-control/traffic calming purposes; which most of us here know is an MUTCD no-no.
I'll second this. My personal least favorite would snag me going to work everyday on Sumneytown Pike (a state Highway) and Swedesford Road (a non-arterial).
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2039712,-75.2596429,3a,75y,272.35h,94.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sswlEw4BG628hCMa0EIhZKw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
I can't explain why it angered me aside from the fact that the 4 way was put in about 6-7 years ago to only benefit light traffic on Swedesford.. (I know, selfish of me)
In defense, it probably has reduced accidents there.
I have always disliked the all-way stop at the southern end of Autoroute 15 in Quebec. You're on a controlled-access highway with a speed limit of 100 and then you hit a stop sign. I do understand why it's set up this way, both to slow people down before the border and to allow access for the other road at a location where an interchange would be difficult to construct due to the proximity to the border, but I note the northbound traffic on I-87 doesn't go through stop signs to control speed. (Obviously, the location below is not subject to the American MUTCD.)
https://goo.gl/maps/auuUjPeEJFcYdBBDA
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 04, 2020, 01:13:17 PM
I have always disliked the all-way stop at the southern end of Autoroute 15 in Quebec. You're on a controlled-access highway with a speed limit of 100 and then you hit a stop sign. I do understand why it's set up this way, both to slow people down before the border and to allow access for the other road at a location where an interchange would be difficult to construct due to the proximity to the border, but I note the northbound traffic on I-87 doesn't go through stop signs to control speed. (Obviously, the location below is not subject to the American MUTCD.)
https://goo.gl/maps/auuUjPeEJFcYdBBDA
I'd question if an intersection needs to exist there at all. Traffic that uses that could just as easily use exit 1. Canada seems to like this sort of thing, for some reason - A-55 has a traffic light (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.0085516,-72.0874324,3a,75y,204.47h,89.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s22Z5nHq-8Hiz9BWQtpwBvA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), and NB 95 and BC 99 both have at-grades right next to customs too.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5906092,-71.2407761,3a,75y,327.34h,78.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sz3UtWP4MF3Ybanb2tamABg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
This is actually a 5-way due to a side road being built off of it many years later. This intersection has fairly high traffic volume morning and evening, and it can become chaos because each side of the intersection is so far apart that no one can sync up with each other. My town wants to change it at some point, chiefly by making Chandler St have a stop sign at Whipple at a 90 degree angle in each spot.
Quote from: vdeane on February 04, 2020, 08:11:22 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 04, 2020, 01:13:17 PM
I have always disliked the all-way stop at the southern end of Autoroute 15 in Quebec. You're on a controlled-access highway with a speed limit of 100 and then you hit a stop sign. I do understand why it's set up this way, both to slow people down before the border and to allow access for the other road at a location where an interchange would be difficult to construct due to the proximity to the border, but I note the northbound traffic on I-87 doesn't go through stop signs to control speed. (Obviously, the location below is not subject to the American MUTCD.)
https://goo.gl/maps/auuUjPeEJFcYdBBDA
I'd question if an intersection needs to exist there at all. Traffic that uses that could just as easily use exit 1. Canada seems to like this sort of thing, for some reason - A-55 has a traffic light (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.0085516,-72.0874324,3a,75y,204.47h,89.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s22Z5nHq-8Hiz9BWQtpwBvA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), and NB 95 and BC 99 both have at-grades right next to customs too.
I haven't crossed at Stanstead since 1984, so I really do not remember what it looked like back then. The only freeway-grade crossings I've used in recent memory are the Peace Bridge last June heading towards the US (no at-grade intersections on the Canadian side there) and the Thousand Islands Bridge last June heading towards Canada (no stop sign, but we did have to stop to wait for a line of geese to walk across the road right at the border).
Here's another 5-way intersection that I've hated since I started driving over half a century ago. I can't figure out why the city of Muncie never did anything about it.
GSV link: https://goo.gl/maps/pXhkAtYEkSVssLyX9
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49495713247_7dcaf2a81a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ipLt9k)5-way_arial (https://flic.kr/p/2ipLt9k) by Tom Heline (https://www.flickr.com/photos/185842086@N05/), on Flickr
It's another spot where the five roadways do not line up well, sometimes confusing drivers. I suppose the intersection has never qualified for attention because overall traffic levels have never been that heavy, with most traffic on Bethel Ave. However traffic can get very heavy before and after events at nearby Schuemann Stadium, Worthen Arena, and other Ball State venues. I've been among the sufferers at those times.
Do other states do the "Stop Except Right Turn" to the extent that Pennsylvania does? I can count a few times I've nearly been hit because I was the right turn, and the person with a full stop sign saw the back of an octagon and assumed I had to stop too.
Quote from: sbeaver44 on February 09, 2020, 06:38:47 PM
Do other states do the "Stop Except Right Turn" to the extent that Pennsylvania does? I can count a few times I've nearly been hit because I was the right turn, and the person with a full stop sign saw the back of an octagon and assumed I had to stop too.
Unless the other driver thought it was an all-way stop, that driver didn't have the right of way to begin with even if they were opposing stop signs.
This one in Glencoe, Minnesota. (https://goo.gl/maps/K5g2zqVVEE9pRa5g6) I don't know why it isn't signalized yet.
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on February 10, 2020, 03:39:00 AM
This one in Glencoe, Minnesota. (https://goo.gl/maps/K5g2zqVVEE9pRa5g6) I don't know why it isn't signalized yet.
Wow, that's worse than anything I've ever seen in the Lakeville area. Which is... not something I thought I'd ever be saying.
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on February 10, 2020, 03:39:00 AM
This one in Glencoe, Minnesota. (https://goo.gl/maps/K5g2zqVVEE9pRa5g6) I don't know why it isn't signalized yet.
That reminds me a lot of the one in Boone, IA. (Link) (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0347645,-93.8793773,3a,75y,269.52h,79.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sy-wbabFJAgc35pQrtPma3w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Quote from: webny99 on February 10, 2020, 12:03:53 PM
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on February 10, 2020, 03:39:00 AM
This one in Glencoe, Minnesota. (https://goo.gl/maps/K5g2zqVVEE9pRa5g6) I don't know why it isn't signalized yet.
Wow, that's worse than anything I've ever seen in the Lakeville area. Which is... not something I thought I'd ever be saying.
Especially because it's four lanes each direction (not counting turn lanes) and US-212 there has a 55 mph speed limit. It is one of the most ludicrous things I have seen.
Quote from: pianocello on February 10, 2020, 08:34:24 PM
That reminds me a lot of the one in Boone, IA. (Link) (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0347645,-93.8793773,3a,75y,269.52h,79.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sy-wbabFJAgc35pQrtPma3w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
At least that one is only four lanes crossing two lanes.
Yay, rare past thread that was an easy find!
Bumping this because the intersection of VT 100 and VT 108 in Stowe (https://goo.gl/maps/5pAfD1p1xZKk85z77) is absolutely in the mix for "worst stop-sign controlled intersection in the country". It appears to be perpetually backed up and badly needs to be signalized given the incredible volume of tourist traffic that passes through here. I know it's technically not 4-way, but still...
Also, I wanted to add a candidate from my own area that I forgot to mention before... NY 444 and Boughton Hill Rd (https://goo.gl/maps/cd84fWxwxdTmit7R8) south of Victor, NY. It's bad on a good day... and on a fall Saturday? Forget about it.
Quote from: sbeaver44 on February 09, 2020, 06:38:47 PM
Do other states do the "Stop Except Right Turn" to the extent that Pennsylvania does? I can count a few times I've nearly been hit because I was the right turn, and the person with a full stop sign saw the back of an octagon and assumed I had to stop too.
Back in August, I saw a few of those on county roads in SW Wisconsin near Platteville. I don't know about other parts of Wisconsin and whether they exist there, but I am not a fan of that sign for the reason you described.