Poll
Question:
Your reaction to the Indians removing Chief Wahoo from their uniforms?
Option 1: It's about time
votes: 13
Option 2: Disappointed that they caved on this issue
votes: 14
Option 3: Indifference
votes: 9
This season will be the last year the Cleveland Indians wear the Chief Wahoo on the uniform and caps:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/29/sports/baseball/cleveland-indians-chief-wahoo-logo.html
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwfmj.images.worldnow.com%2Fimages%2F12182347_G.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26amp%3Bdisable%3Dupscale%26amp%3Bwidth%3D800&hash=2ef5a74a468a39d9cd79d1b2c41ad18be50ca43e)
As an Indians fan, I'm somewhat torn on this issue. I grew up with this logo and will be a little bit sad to see it go, but on the other hand I understand why it needs to go. I'm also not at all surprised that it's happening now, as the team has already been slowly deemphasizing the logo over the past decade and has been publicly pressured by the commissioner on this issue (with it it being rumored that removing the logo was a condition in the deal to bring the 2019 All-Star Game to Cleveland)
Overall I'm indifferent to the change, and will find it easy to move on from this and continue following the team. However, a lot of Tribe fans are flat out losing their shit over this. The reaction on social media and in online article comment sections has not been pretty.
Also, it's important to note that the Indians will still sell Chief Wahoo merchandise after the logo is removed from the uniform, so they are not getting rid of it completely.
Being that they can easily do it today if they want, they are no doubt looking to see how much support this idea has.
Quote from: Buck87 on January 30, 2018, 11:07:10 AM
....
Also, it's important to note that the Indians will still sell Chief Wahoo merchandise after the logo is removed from the uniform, so they are not getting rid of it completely.
I believe they're doing that to protect their trademark rights–if they stopped selling such merchandise and using that logo altogether, the mark could be deemed "abandoned" such that anyone else could then use it. It's similar to how the University of Southern California administration objects to the name "Southern Cal" (they claim it makes people think they're a southern branch of Berkeley) but sells some limited amount of stuff with that name to establish trademark rights so as to prevent someone from using the name.
I seem to recall the Braves tried to bring back the Chief Noc-a-Homa logo as an alternate uniform hat a few years ago and it didn't go over too well, but I believe they still sell the hats for similar reasons to the Indians' (they just don't wear them anymore).
Quote from: Buck87 on January 30, 2018, 11:07:10 AM
As an Indians fan, I'm somewhat torn on this issue. I grew up with this logo and will be a little bit sad to see it go, but on the other hand I understand why it needs to go.
This is a good perspective to take. I can see how it would have a lot of nostalgia for you, but if you take a step back and look at it...yikes.
I wonder if there was increased pressure to remove it as a result of the Indians going to the World Series two seasons ago and the logo getting a lot more national attention than it would have otherwise.
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 30, 2018, 11:25:23 AM
I seem to recall the Braves tried to bring back the Chief Noc-a-Homa logo as an alternate uniform hat a few years ago and it didn't go over too well, but I believe they still sell the hats for similar reasons to the Indians' (they just don't wear them anymore).
Why they got rid of the Chief but happily organize the Tomahawk Chop chant several times per game, I'll never know.
OK, so when will the University of Notre Dame get rid of that offensive Irish caricature and drop the "Fighting"?
Soon, hopefully. Fans punching the air at Notre Dame games look no less buffoonish than Braves/FSU fans doing the Tomahawk Chop.
Quote from: Brandon on January 30, 2018, 11:41:08 AM
OK, so when will the University of Notre Dame get rid of that offensive Irish caricature and drop the "Fighting"?
Never, mainly because nobody is actually offended by it.
Quote from: cabiness42 on January 30, 2018, 12:25:50 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 30, 2018, 11:41:08 AM
OK, so when will the University of Notre Dame get rid of that offensive Irish caricature and drop the "Fighting"?
Never, mainly because nobody is actually offended by it.
And yet, it's just the same type of cartoon character as Chief Wahoo and others. Why have a bias against one and not the other when both are the same type of caricature? Get rid of both.
With a few goofy exceptions (UC Irvine and UC Santa Barbara come to mind) , sports nicknames are born out of an admiration of the thing for which they are named. There is no real difference between "Indians" and "Irish", or for that matter "Cowboys", "Pioneers", "Knights" or "Vikings" or "Spartans" or whatever else.
People that take offense are generally people without enough work to do. Good hard work can refocus a person's mind to more important things.
These things are always overblown. People will continue to watch and go to Indians games. Does anyone out at Stanford care about the name change anymore? (And that's a conservative school to boot).
Quote from: Brandon on January 30, 2018, 01:08:23 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on January 30, 2018, 12:25:50 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 30, 2018, 11:41:08 AM
OK, so when will the University of Notre Dame get rid of that offensive Irish caricature and drop the "Fighting"?
Never, mainly because nobody is actually offended by it.
And yet, it's just the same type of cartoon character as Chief Wahoo and others. Why have a bias against one and not the other when both are the same type of caricature? Get rid of both.
Native Americans have complained about their depiction by a variety of teams. Irish Americans have not complained about Notre Dame, Nordic Americans have not complained about the various Vikings mascots, etc. It doesn't even generalize to all Native Americans. The Seminole tribe fully embraces FSU using them as a mascot.
Quote from: SP Cook on January 30, 2018, 01:14:44 PM
With a few goofy exceptions (UC Irvine and UC Santa Barbara come to mind)
Are you thinking of UC Santa Cruz instead of Santa Barbara? UCSB is the Gauchos (basically a South American horseman), which would certainly be no more/less offensive than Vikings/Cowboys/etc.
UCSC, on the other hand, is the Banana Slugs:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UC_Santa_Cruz_Banana_Slugs#Mascot
Quote from: DTComposer on January 30, 2018, 04:27:03 PM
Are you thinking of UC Santa Cruz instead of Santa Barbara? UCSB is the Gauchos (basically a South American horseman), which would certainly be no more/less offensive than Vikings/Cowboys/etc.
UCSC, on the other hand, is the Banana Slugs:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UC_Santa_Cruz_Banana_Slugs#Mascot
I have both a Banana Slug T-shirt and sweatshirt. I wore the latter to the Delaware mini-meet (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=21640.msg2284842#msg2284842) last December.
I didn't go to UCSC, but went to a nearby school where the student body also voted for a new mascot. Our trustees said forget it.
All I can think of is this...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fruben.fm%2Fimages%2Fpics%2Fresized%2F202_deaf_leopards.jpg&hash=19afdf7e0ca5725b66423b28c4944051e0bae1e2)
Quote from: inkyatari on January 30, 2018, 04:58:32 PM
All I can think of is this...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fruben.fm%2Fimages%2Fpics%2Fresized%2F202_deaf_leopards.jpg&hash=19afdf7e0ca5725b66423b28c4944051e0bae1e2)
Nice photograph of an animal. I wonder if that caused hysteria among the students. They might run riot if they're excitable enough.
:bigass:
If you want to keep the Indians name, work with local tribes. Spokane did it (http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2014/mar/16/spokane-indians-baseball-players-uniforms-sport/) and it's been successfully received.
Quote from: Bruce on January 31, 2018, 01:09:55 AM
If you want to keep the Indians name, work with local tribes. Spokane did it (http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2014/mar/16/spokane-indians-baseball-players-uniforms-sport/) and it's been successfully received.
Hell, the Chicago Blackhawks have been working with native tribes for quite some time.
Quote from: Brandon on January 30, 2018, 01:08:23 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on January 30, 2018, 12:25:50 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 30, 2018, 11:41:08 AM
OK, so when will the University of Notre Dame get rid of that offensive Irish caricature and drop the "Fighting"?
Never, mainly because nobody is actually offended by it.
And yet, it's just the same type of cartoon character as Chief Wahoo and others. Why have a bias against one and not the other when both are the same type of caricature? Get rid of both.
I'm Irish and I'm not offended by it, nor have I heard from anyone who is Irish that it offends them in the past. But in today's world, everything has to offend someone and with social media as their tool, that person can spread it like a wildfire, create national headlines, and you be damned if you're against that persons opinion. Certain mascots I agree with (Wahoo, the Redskins), but stuff like the Fighting Irish or the look of Starbucks Cups (yes that was trending at one point) is just click-bait to increase their internet count and just create more tension in a world that honestly does not need more. Soon we'll hear that people are offended by specific colors of the rainbow, dust, or the light of the sun.
But whatevs, I'll just tend to my business and watch the shitshow that'll occur with this on the sidelines. I'll share popcorn with anyone who wants it :popcorn:
Quote from: Brandon on January 30, 2018, 01:08:23 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on January 30, 2018, 12:25:50 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 30, 2018, 11:41:08 AM
OK, so when will the University of Notre Dame get rid of that offensive Irish caricature and drop the "Fighting"?
Never, mainly because nobody is actually offended by it.
And yet, it's just the same type of cartoon character as Chief Wahoo and others. Why have a bias against one and not the other when both are the same type of caricature? Get rid of both.
Maybe you should write to Notre Dame and ask them to change their nickname & mascot. Give them a good reason why.
No one came to Ireland, named the inhabitants after some place on the other side of the world and then spent the next 5 centuries ethnically cleansing them.
If the Irish were misnamed "Australians" by foreign invaders, and the remnant population was shoved into a few marginal areas of their former home lands and a 20th Century sports team called themselves the Aussies, then the Fighting Irish would be analogous to the Cleveland Indians or the Washington Redskins.
Otherwise it's apples and oranges.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ae/4a/be/ae4abe641927702437086e282df69939.jpg)
Quote from: DTComposer on January 30, 2018, 04:27:03 PM
Are you thinking of UC Santa Cruz instead of Santa Barbara? UCSB is the Gauchos (basically a South American horseman), which would certainly be no more/less offensive than Vikings/Cowboys/etc.
UCSC, on the other hand, is the Banana Slugs:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UC_Santa_Cruz_Banana_Slugs#Mascot
Yeah. There are so many UC branches it is hard to keep it all straight. Thanks.
I've been told that the Tampa Bay Rays dropped the "Devil" from their name because it was offensive to those living in the Bible Belt. Coincidentally, that season brought forth lots of firsts for them (winning record, finish higher than fourth in their division, division title, postseason appearance, AL pennant, World Series berth).
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 02, 2018, 09:31:39 AM
No one came to Ireland, named the inhabitants after some place on the other side of the world and then spent the next 5 centuries ethnically cleansing them.
If the Irish were misnamed "Australians" by foreign invaders, and the remnant population was shoved into a few marginal areas of their former home lands and a 20th Century sports team called themselves the Aussies, then the Fighting Irish would be analogous to the Cleveland Indians or the Washington Redskins.
Otherwise it's apples and oranges.
Ever taken a history course on 19th century American labor? We treated the Irish about like the Germans and Jews in the 1920s. Now tell me how a "Warsaw Diamond Peddlers" team name would go over.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 02, 2018, 09:31:39 AM
No one came to Ireland, named the inhabitants after some place on the other side of the world and then spent the next 5 centuries ethnically cleansing them.
If the Irish were misnamed "Australians" by foreign invaders, and the remnant population was shoved into a few marginal areas of their former home lands and a 20th Century sports team called themselves the Aussies, then the Fighting Irish would be analogous to the Cleveland Indians or the Washington Redskins.
Otherwise it's apples and oranges.
Bingo.
Also, like the OP, I am a lifelong Indians fan. It's tough to see the logo go....but it needs to go.
Quote from: sandwalk on February 02, 2018, 07:06:10 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 02, 2018, 09:31:39 AM
No one came to Ireland, named the inhabitants after some place on the other side of the world and then spent the next 5 centuries ethnically cleansing them.
If the Irish were misnamed "Australians" by foreign invaders, and the remnant population was shoved into a few marginal areas of their former home lands and a 20th Century sports team called themselves the Aussies, then the Fighting Irish would be analogous to the Cleveland Indians or the Washington Redskins.
Otherwise it's apples and oranges.
Bingo.
Also, like the OP, I am a lifelong Indians fan. It's tough to see the logo go....but it needs to go.
Why does it need to go? This is political correctness gone too far.
As I like to say, you give them an inch and they'll take a mile.
Would you support the team being called the Cleveland Native Americans.
Quote from: MisterSG1 on February 02, 2018, 08:53:08 PM
Quote from: sandwalk on February 02, 2018, 07:06:10 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 02, 2018, 09:31:39 AM
No one came to Ireland, named the inhabitants after some place on the other side of the world and then spent the next 5 centuries ethnically cleansing them.
If the Irish were misnamed "Australians" by foreign invaders, and the remnant population was shoved into a few marginal areas of their former home lands and a 20th Century sports team called themselves the Aussies, then the Fighting Irish would be analogous to the Cleveland Indians or the Washington Redskins.
Otherwise it's apples and oranges.
Bingo.
Also, like the OP, I am a lifelong Indians fan. It's tough to see the logo go....but it needs to go.
Why does it need to go? This is political correctness gone too far.
As I like to say, you give them an inch and they'll take a mile.
Would you support the team being called the Cleveland Native Americans.
If we're renaming them to the Cleveland Native Americans (which we aren't), we might as well rename the state of Indiana.
Just my two cents, from the D.C. area...
I'm pleased with the phaseout of the cartoon-ish Chief Wahoo logo. I don't have a problem with keeping the Indians name.
OTOH, I think the Washington Redskins' name is deeply offensive (nothing like the pretty neutral "Indians" name), but at least its team logo doesn't compound the injury.
Quote from: MisterSG1 on February 02, 2018, 08:53:08 PM
Quote from: sandwalk on February 02, 2018, 07:06:10 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 02, 2018, 09:31:39 AM
No one came to Ireland, named the inhabitants after some place on the other side of the world and then spent the next 5 centuries ethnically cleansing them.
If the Irish were misnamed "Australians" by foreign invaders, and the remnant population was shoved into a few marginal areas of their former home lands and a 20th Century sports team called themselves the Aussies, then the Fighting Irish would be analogous to the Cleveland Indians or the Washington Redskins.
Otherwise it's apples and oranges.
Bingo.
Also, like the OP, I am a lifelong Indians fan. It's tough to see the logo go....but it needs to go.
Why does it need to go? This is political correctness gone too far.
As I like to say, you give them an inch and they'll take a mile.
Would you support the team being called the Cleveland Native Americans.
Political correctness killed off blackface and let women vote. Your move, avowed racist.
Quote from: Alps on February 02, 2018, 09:45:08 PM
Quote from: MisterSG1 on February 02, 2018, 08:53:08 PM
Quote from: sandwalk on February 02, 2018, 07:06:10 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 02, 2018, 09:31:39 AM
No one came to Ireland, named the inhabitants after some place on the other side of the world and then spent the next 5 centuries ethnically cleansing them.
If the Irish were misnamed "Australians" by foreign invaders, and the remnant population was shoved into a few marginal areas of their former home lands and a 20th Century sports team called themselves the Aussies, then the Fighting Irish would be analogous to the Cleveland Indians or the Washington Redskins.
Otherwise it's apples and oranges.
Bingo.
Also, like the OP, I am a lifelong Indians fan. It's tough to see the logo go....but it needs to go.
Why does it need to go? This is political correctness gone too far.
As I like to say, you give them an inch and they'll take a mile.
Would you support the team being called the Cleveland Native Americans.
Political correctness killed off blackface and let women vote. Your move, avowed racist.
Excuse me? One thing I am not is racist, don't make personal attacks on me.
And yet apparently nobody has a problem with the Kansas City Chiefs tomahawk chop. I guess it's not the PC flavor of the day (yet).
^^ There were protests in the 90s when the Atlanta Braves were (and still are) using it. http://www.cnn.com/US/9510/mascot_protest/
And the FSU Seminoles are a 3rd team to use the Tomahawk Chop
Quote from: Big John on February 02, 2018, 09:57:09 PM
^^ There were protests in the 90s when the Atlanta Braves were (and still are) using it. http://www.cnn.com/US/9510/mascot_protest/
And the FSU Seminoles are a 3rd team to use the Tomahawk Chop
FSU was the first to do it. The Braves started doing it while FSU alum Deion Sanders was playing for them, and the Chiefs adopted it after the Norwest Missouri State band (directed by an FSU alum) played it at one of their games.
Quote from: Alps on February 02, 2018, 06:37:53 PM
Ever taken a history course on 19th century American labor? We treated the Irish about like the Germans and Jews in the 1920s. Now tell me how a "Warsaw Diamond Peddlers" team name would go over.
Oh the Irish got more than their share of unfair bullshit, that's for sure. Which I'm sure is mind-boggling to non-white people. It's like white people used to be
so racist that they even shit on people
whiter than they were. :rolleyes: Which is why it's so disheartening to see modern Americans with Irish roots saying stupid, race-baiting bullshit.
Anyway, the point is the "Fighting Irish" was a name chosen by a school with a predominantly Irish Catholic student body. They named themselves after themselves. They didn't co-opt someone else's heritage. The Fighting Irish would only be commensurate with the Indians if they were a team in, say, London.
The Redskins would be like having a soccer team in London called The Micks.
Quote from: Alps on February 02, 2018, 09:45:08 PM
Quote from: MisterSG1 on February 02, 2018, 08:53:08 PM
Quote from: sandwalk on February 02, 2018, 07:06:10 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 02, 2018, 09:31:39 AM
No one came to Ireland, named the inhabitants after some place on the other side of the world and then spent the next 5 centuries ethnically cleansing them.
If the Irish were misnamed "Australians" by foreign invaders, and the remnant population was shoved into a few marginal areas of their former home lands and a 20th Century sports team called themselves the Aussies, then the Fighting Irish would be analogous to the Cleveland Indians or the Washington Redskins.
Otherwise it's apples and oranges.
Bingo.
Also, like the OP, I am a lifelong Indians fan. It's tough to see the logo go....but it needs to go.
Why does it need to go? This is political correctness gone too far.
As I like to say, you give them an inch and they'll take a mile.
Would you support the team being called the Cleveland Native Americans.
Political correctness killed off blackface and let women vote. Your move, avowed racist.
Checkmate, Alps.
I told you before to prove your accusation and you haven't.
Quote from: MisterSG1 on February 03, 2018, 11:10:13 PM
Quote from: Alps on February 02, 2018, 09:45:08 PM
Quote from: MisterSG1 on February 02, 2018, 08:53:08 PM
Quote from: sandwalk on February 02, 2018, 07:06:10 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 02, 2018, 09:31:39 AM
No one came to Ireland, named the inhabitants after some place on the other side of the world and then spent the next 5 centuries ethnically cleansing them.
If the Irish were misnamed "Australians" by foreign invaders, and the remnant population was shoved into a few marginal areas of their former home lands and a 20th Century sports team called themselves the Aussies, then the Fighting Irish would be analogous to the Cleveland Indians or the Washington Redskins.
Otherwise it's apples and oranges.
Bingo.
Also, like the OP, I am a lifelong Indians fan. It's tough to see the logo go....but it needs to go.
Why does it need to go? This is political correctness gone too far.
As I like to say, you give them an inch and they'll take a mile.
Would you support the team being called the Cleveland Native Americans.
Political correctness killed off blackface and let women vote. Your move, avowed racist.
Checkmate, Alps.
I told you before to prove your accusation and you haven't.
I stopped taking orders from you after you started going off on women and minorities in chatting with me. I don't save my chats.
Quote from: MisterSG1 on February 02, 2018, 09:47:17 PM
Excuse me? One thing I am not is racist, don’t make personal attacks on me.
You have been the victim of an unwarranted personal attack.
Quote from: SP Cook on February 04, 2018, 09:23:31 AM
Quote from: MisterSG1 on February 02, 2018, 09:47:17 PM
Excuse me? One thing I am not is racist, don't make personal attacks on me.
You have been the victim of an unwarranted personal attack.
And yet you both support an even more blatant racist being in charge of the United States.
Quote from: Alps on February 02, 2018, 09:45:08 PM
Quote from: MisterSG1 on February 02, 2018, 08:53:08 PM
Quote from: sandwalk on February 02, 2018, 07:06:10 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 02, 2018, 09:31:39 AM
No one came to Ireland, named the inhabitants after some place on the other side of the world and then spent the next 5 centuries ethnically cleansing them.
If the Irish were misnamed "Australians" by foreign invaders, and the remnant population was shoved into a few marginal areas of their former home lands and a 20th Century sports team called themselves the Aussies, then the Fighting Irish would be analogous to the Cleveland Indians or the Washington Redskins.
Otherwise it's apples and oranges.
Bingo.
Also, like the OP, I am a lifelong Indians fan. It's tough to see the logo go....but it needs to go.
Why does it need to go? This is political correctness gone too far.
As I like to say, you give them an inch and they'll take a mile.
Would you support the team being called the Cleveland Native Americans.
Political correctness killed off blackface and let women vote. Your move, avowed racist.
I guess society shouldn't allow gays to get married or keep the 1st amendment after 9/11 (the one part on allowing a religion to be practiced in America).
Anyways, Chief Wahoo is a liability in these times, I expect the Washington R*dsk*ns to change their team name, because the US copyright office refuses to protect trademarks which according to the Webster dictionary are racial slurs.
Let's not get too political here, cus TEH RULES. What we're debating is society changes for the better, and realizes Chief Wahoo isn't really funny. Native Americans, whom I'm related to (Osage/Cherokee grandfather from OK), went through alot of hell in over 5 centuries since white Europeans landed on this continent...and I'm proud to say Native Americans have not totally vanished.
Quote from: Alps on February 02, 2018, 06:37:53 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 02, 2018, 09:31:39 AM
No one came to Ireland, named the inhabitants after some place on the other side of the world and then spent the next 5 centuries ethnically cleansing them.
If the Irish were misnamed "Australians" by foreign invaders, and the remnant population was shoved into a few marginal areas of their former home lands and a 20th Century sports team called themselves the Aussies, then the Fighting Irish would be analogous to the Cleveland Indians or the Washington Redskins.
Otherwise it's apples and oranges.
Ever taken a history course on 19th century American labor? We treated the Irish about like the Germans and Jews in the 1920s. Now tell me how a "Warsaw Diamond Peddlers" team name would go over.
Or the "New York Italian Mafia" or the "Chicago Polacks" or worse, the "San Francisco Yellow Chinamen". Stereotypes are generally not widely socially acceptable. LOL on the Arkansas School of the Deaf Leopards. Is there a California School of the Blind Bats?
Quote from: Desert Man on February 04, 2018, 03:14:16 PM
Anyways, Chief Wahoo is a liability in these times, I expect the Washington R*dsk*ns to change their team name, because the US copyright office refuses to protect trademarks which according to the Webster dictionary are racial slurs.
The Supremes recently ruled that the Patent and Trademark Office couldn't do that (https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/06/19/533514196/the-slants-win-supreme-court-battle-over-bands-name-in-trademark-dispute), against the Slants (a band with Asian-American members, who wanted to "reclaim" that derogatory term).
I agree that the 'Skins will eventually end up with a new name, but it might require a change of ownership to pull that off.
Quote from: 1 on February 04, 2018, 09:39:06 AM
And yet you both support an even more blatant racist being in charge of the United States.
You lack a basic understanding of American history, and of current politics. You need to be quiet.
If all you're going to do is throw insults, then I am locking this.