From Digital Trends:
Best Buy stores will stop selling music CDs, and Target could be nextQuoteWith the popularity of digital music surging, Best Buy is officially pulling the plug on music CDs, and another retail giant may soon join them. Although CDs remain a relatively popular format worldwide, sales in the U.S. dropped more than 18% last year, prompting Best Buy to drop the format entirely.
Billboard is reporting that the retailer has informed music suppliers that it will stop selling CDs and pull them from shelves on July 1. Although Best Buy used to be the top music seller in the U.S., nowadays its CD sales generate a relatively low $40 million per year.
FULL ARTICLE HERE (http://markholtz.info/1ta)
I'm not surprised at all. Nowadays, a portable music player can hold how many dozen CDs as MP3 or FLAC files. Yes, I know that the audio purists have the "overcompressed" nature of MP3 files, and at a lower bitrate, you can tell the difference. I recently re-ripped my entire CD collection at a extremely high bitrate, and I can't tell the difference between the CD and the MP3 file. Yes, the files are bigger, but storage space isn't a premium like it was just ten years ago. Another consideration is that some of the CDs in my collection are soundtracks that are long out-of-print, and getting a replacement means purchasing a used copy at a premium.
Another indicator of this trend is how audio is going with new cars. When I purchased a new car in early 2006, a CD player was a consideration even though I duplicated my CDs to CD-Rs for playback. At that point, Apple had yet to introduce the iPhone. Eight years later, when I was shopping again, the big consideration was Bluetooth integration so that I could play audiobooks and music from my smartphone. While a CD player was also included, I know it works, but it has been two years since I used it. Even the lower-end vehicles I looked at which lacked Bluetooth still included an Aux input, something even the car I had purchased in 2006 lacked and could not be added easily. I ended up using a FM modulator which allowed me to plug in my mobile phone or audio device and rebroadcast it to a specific frequency.
Car manufacturers are adapting to the changes as well. The last vehicle to include a tape deck was a 2010 Lexus SC 430. Now, CDs are disappearing. Take a look at this Forbes article from March, 2017:
It's Time To Say Goodbye To The CD Player In New American CarsQuoteYesterday, NPR reported that Ford is planning on replacing CD players in all future models, instead opting for a screen that allows drivers to access streaming services and satellite radio behemoth SiriusXM. The news came as something of a surprise to many, as it appears to be the end of an era. No more playing CDs in the car? Has it really already come to that?
What is actually shocking about this news item is that Ford is somewhat late to the game. Major car manufacturers have been ditching CDs for years now, and soon, there won't be any left who feel the need to continue to include this option in their new makes. Many of the new 2016 cars manufactured by major players like Honda and Toyota also didn't include CD players. Tesla did away with the feature long before those giants. In the near future, there are sure to be more American drivers roaming around without even the option to insert a disc and hit play. According to research firm IHS Automotive, 46% of cars sold in the U.S. won't have CD players by 2021.
FULL ARTICLE HERE (http://markholtz.info/1tb)
I'm not surprised by this decision. To an auto manufacturer, that's five pounds of very complex parts taking up valuable dashboard real estate that can put to better use. And, auto manufacturers are slow to adapt to technological change, as the lack of a feature will make or break a sale. I know that one of the required features in my next car is Android Auto integration, which excludes Toyotas and BMWs.
In a way, though, this is spelling the end for physical media. I remember when DVDs first came out, they were a great improvement not only in the picture quality, but in features as well. With their smaller physical size, multiple audio tracks for commentary, and extra materials, some of the titles would qualify as a film school in a box. Sadly, that is going away slowly in favor of streaming media. I don't believe they will completely go away, as there are too many Internet deserts where there is no broadband or the broadband providers are capping how much traffic you use in a month.
I'm noticing the trend as I shop for a new car, to replace my old pickup truck. That 2006 truck, and the 2008 car I'll be keeping (still going strong at 288K miles), both had 6-disc in-dash CD changers. Now many new cars have no CD players at all, and the ones that do have only single-disc players.
Not surprised though given the way things are going like mp3's or Dashboards apps at play.
The CD selection at most of these chain stores isn't that great anyway. I recently learned that Lush reunited, and put our an album in 2016, but I don't know of too many Best Buy, Target, or Wal-Mart stores that had any copies. And that's just one example.
My dad is gonna be pissed about Best Buy, but this announcement doesn't surprise me. FYE also seems to be slowly doing away with CD's. When I was in Goldsboro, NC two months ago, we went to FYE in Berkeley Mall and they only had one shelf of CD's. That was it. Ol' pops was not pleased. They used to have aisles of CD's when I last lived there 10 years ago. Hell, I remember when it was Camelot before it became FYE.
This is nothing more than time rolling along. Most purists didn't like CDs and preferred LPs instead when CDs became popular.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 06, 2018, 06:20:49 AM
This is nothing more than time rolling along. Most purists didn't like CDs and preferred LPs instead when CDs became popular.
And now LPs/vinyl is making a comeback. What is old is new again.
My wife's 2015 Acura has only a single-disc CD player; it will rip the CD to a hard drive, or you can connect an iPod or similar device or stream via Bluetooth (no CarPlay or whatever the Android equivalent is). While having the iPod interface is convenient, to me the major annoyance is (1) finding the music while you're driving and (2) invariably it starts playing on the first track on the device by alphabetical name ("'A' Bomb in Wardour Street" by the Jam) until I pause it and then twirl the menu knob around to find something else. There's got to be a better way to do this.
Quote from: cjk374 on February 06, 2018, 07:17:54 AM
And now LPs/vinyl is making a comeback. What is old is new again.
I can understand the comeback of LPs. I don't understand why people would want cassette tapes or VHS tapes to come back.
Quote from: cjk374 on February 06, 2018, 07:17:54 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 06, 2018, 06:20:49 AM
This is nothing more than time rolling along. Most purists didn't like CDs and preferred LPs instead when CDs became popular.
And now LPs/vinyl is making a comeback. What is old is new again.
And now it's the turn of the casette tapes to comeback. https://www.marketplace.org/2017/11/22/business/cassette-tapes-make-comeback
https://blog.landr.com/are-cassette-tapes-making-a-comeback/
What's next? 8-Track cartridge to return? ;)
Eesh. Audio cassettes were a wrong-way turn on media progress. Stupid things degrade after the first play.
Target IS going to stop selling music CDs, according to the news report I heard last night.
The trouble with owning digital copies of entertainment (as opposed to owning copies on physical media) is that there isn't much stopping the company from providing the copy to me anymore (Apple yanking a copy of a movie or TV show or song from my iPhone, or Amazon suddenly deciding it's not going to let me stream the movie I purchased any more). I don't have to worry about anyone from a movie studio or record label coming into my house and taking a handful of CDs or DVDs.
https://youtu.be/NlM3CKXJs5k
Quote from: Stephane Dumas on February 06, 2018, 09:22:41 AM
Quote from: cjk374 on February 06, 2018, 07:17:54 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 06, 2018, 06:20:49 AM
This is nothing more than time rolling along. Most purists didn't like CDs and preferred LPs instead when CDs became popular.
And now LPs/vinyl is making a comeback. What is old is new again.
And now it's the turn of the casette tapes to comeback. https://www.marketplace.org/2017/11/22/business/cassette-tapes-make-comeback
https://blog.landr.com/are-cassette-tapes-making-a-comeback/
What's next? 8-Track cartridge to return? ;)
I'm ready for that already. I still have 2 stereos that can play 8-tracks. :bigass:
I still prefer to have CDs of albums I listen to frequently. But I have gone towards the trend of just streaming playlists... I still would like to have CD players in my cars just in case I want to play something that's not on a streaming service yet (Like the NFS III: Hot Pursuit soundtrack)
Quote from: ZLoth on February 06, 2018, 07:45:42 AMI don't understand why people would want cassette tapes or VHS tapes to come back.
Me either. They degrade and sound/look like ass.
Quote from: Rothman on February 06, 2018, 09:26:29 AM
Eesh. Audio cassettes were a wrong-way turn on media progress. Stupid things degrade after the first play.
True, but they because cheaper and obviously more portable. Playing an LP or EP in your car was a cruel joke. If you sprung for good quality tapes (not Type I), used an archival source (not radio), and decent equipment (not Radio Shack-spec), it was pretty good.
Early MP3 players and quality were equally poor, until storage capacity and re-sampling quality increased. So there's a curve for everything.
Quote from: D-Dey65 on February 06, 2018, 12:34:15 AM
The CD selection at most of these chain stores isn't that great anyway. I recently learned that Lush reunited, and put our an album in 2016, but I don't know of too many Best Buy, Target, or Wal-Mart stores that had any copies. And that's just one example.
It's been about 5 years since I bought an album in a store; I have to go to an online retailer to find actual albums. You can find the latest (and "greatest") in stores, but that's about it. Between most record stores going belly-up, major retailers are going with safe bets, so I suppose it's taking up space. I don't really blame retailers for removing the albums, as keeping up with demands must be a tricky process that yields diminishing returns.
Probably won't be too long until the DVDs go away, but there still seems to be a steady market for new releases, new TV seasons, and box sets. For now, you can't (legally) get every movie online.
When Best Buy first opened in Lexington, it was a CD buyer's haven. They carried all sorts of obscure titles, imports, etc. My future wife and I spent many a Saturday evening in Best Buy, browsing and buying.
I can't remember the last time I bought a new-release musical performance in any form, however. Pretty much everything that's being put out these days is awful. I'm not into pop, rap, or anything else that is "hip" these days. What's a metalhead going to do these days?
Quote from: abefroman329 on February 06, 2018, 09:31:32 AM
Target IS going to stop selling music CDs, according to the news report I heard last night.
The trouble with owning digital copies of entertainment (as opposed to owning copies on physical media) is that there isn't much stopping the company from providing the copy to me anymore (Apple yanking a copy of a movie or TV show or song from my iPhone, or Amazon suddenly deciding it's not going to let me stream the movie I purchased any more). I don't have to worry about anyone from a movie studio or record label coming into my house and taking a handful of CDs or DVDs.
The solution, obviously, is to burn an audio CD of the digital tracks you download, and also burn a data CD of those files (AAC if you're buying from Apple). If you have them that way, physically, they're untouchable. Anytime I've bought something off iTunes or another digital source, which is rare, that's what I've done.
What people don't consider is the all important question: What happens if my computer, mp3 player, or other device crashes? If you've ripped your music from CDs, you can just re-rip everything. If you've downloaded everything, you're pretty much SOL and have to re-purchase all that music.
Even in the days when I was copying LPs onto reel to reel and cassette tapes, and more recently copying music onto minidisc format, I always remembered what an audiophile friend told me in the early 1970s - Never ever get rid of your source material, as you may need it some day.
As for cassettes, I copied music onto tapes for years and never had a single tape fail or significantly degrade on me. The key was twofold - use good equipment and use quality tapes (as opposed to the 3 for a dollar brands that were prevalent for many years.
All that having been said, I haven't bought a CD from a retail store in years. On-line retailers (like Import CDs) have a far greater selection and far better prices.
Quote from: roadman on February 06, 2018, 11:46:14 AMWhat happens if my computer, mp3 player, or other device crashes?
Since I back up regularly, I can restore it from backup. What am I missing here?
Quote from: Doctor Whom on February 06, 2018, 11:56:47 AM
Quote from: roadman on February 06, 2018, 11:46:14 AMWhat happens if my computer, mp3 player, or other device crashes?
Since I back up regularly, I can restore it from backup. What am I missing here?
Point taken.
Quote from: Doctor Whom on February 06, 2018, 11:56:47 AM
Quote from: roadman on February 06, 2018, 11:46:14 AMWhat happens if my computer, mp3 player, or other device crashes?
Since I back up regularly, I can restore it from backup. What am I missing here?
I think his point is that it will become harder to find something to playback the source material. While the second-generation copy has the same or similar information, it's not quite the source.
Then...why bother keeping obsolete source material after you have transformed it onto contemporary media?
Quote from: roadman on February 06, 2018, 11:46:14 AM
What people don't consider is the all important question: What happens if my computer, mp3 player, or other device crashes? If you've ripped your music from CDs, you can just re-rip everything. If you've downloaded everything, you're pretty much SOL and have to re-purchase all that music.
If you've purchased it from, say, Amazon or iTunes, you can re-download it. If you've downloaded it illegally, then yes, you're SOL unless you can find another pirated copy.
Quote from: hbelkins on February 06, 2018, 11:12:54 AM
Pretty much everything that's being put out these days is awful.
This may be the only statement you've made to date that I agree with.
Quote from: hbelkins on February 06, 2018, 11:12:54 AMThe solution, obviously, is to burn an audio CD of the digital tracks you download, and also burn a data CD of those files (AAC if you're buying from Apple). If you have them that way, physically, they're untouchable. Anytime I've bought something off iTunes or another digital source, which is rare, that's what I've done.
I'm no conspiracy theorist, but I'm sure there's a way the copyright owner could prevent you from playing back those as well.
Quote from: abefroman329 on February 06, 2018, 09:31:32 AM
Target IS going to stop selling music CDs, according to the news report I heard last night.
The trouble with owning digital copies of entertainment (as opposed to owning copies on physical media) is that there isn't much stopping the company from providing the copy to me anymore (Apple yanking a copy of a movie or TV show or song from my iPhone, or Amazon suddenly deciding it's not going to let me stream the movie I purchased any more). I don't have to worry about anyone from a movie studio or record label coming into my house and taking a handful of CDs or DVDs.
Fortunately, most places you can buy digital music these days sell unprotected mp3s. Nothing the publisher can do to make those stop working. Pretty sure Amazon allows them to be re-downloaded too, as well as playback from their website.
Quote from: formulanone on February 06, 2018, 11:08:23 AM
Quote from: Rothman on February 06, 2018, 09:26:29 AM
Eesh. Audio cassettes were a wrong-way turn on media progress. Stupid things degrade after the first play.
True, but they because cheaper and obviously more portable. Playing an LP or EP in your car was a cruel joke. If you sprung for good quality tapes (not Type I), used an archival source (not radio), and decent equipment (not Radio Shack-spec), it was pretty good.
Early MP3 players and quality were equally poor, until storage capacity and re-sampling quality increased. So there's a curve for everything.
Quote from: D-Dey65 on February 06, 2018, 12:34:15 AM
The CD selection at most of these chain stores isn't that great anyway. I recently learned that Lush reunited, and put our an album in 2016, but I don't know of too many Best Buy, Target, or Wal-Mart stores that had any copies. And that's just one example.
It's been about 5 years since I bought an album in a store; I have to go to an online retailer to find actual albums. You can find the latest (and "greatest") in stores, but that's about it. Between most record stores going belly-up, major retailers are going with safe bets, so I suppose it's taking up space. I don't really blame retailers for removing the albums, as keeping up with demands must be a tricky process that yields diminishing returns.
Probably won't be too long until the DVDs go away, but there still seems to be a steady market for new releases, new TV seasons, and box sets. For now, you can't (legally) get every movie online.
Have digital non-streaming movies/TV shows taken off? My understanding is that most of the digital video action is with streaming services like Netflix and Amazon Prime, and nothing that isn't original content is guaranteed to stay on for long. TV shows usually last a couple years, but movies sometimes don't even last a couple months before leaving Netflix. Pretty hard to justify switching from DVD/BluRay to streaming when everything could vanish if a rights-holder has a dispute with your streaming service, another service pays for exclusivity, or they want to launch their own service. I lost access to Doctor Who for that reason, and will probably lose access to Star Trek eventually, too. After that, the only thing holding me to Netflix will be Black Mirror.
I find that practically anything is available for streaming somewhere on the Internet.
Quote from: vdeane on February 06, 2018, 01:55:33 PM
Have digital non-streaming movies/TV shows taken off? My understanding is that most of the digital video action is with streaming services like Netflix and Amazon Prime, and nothing that isn't original content is guaranteed to stay on for long. TV shows usually last a couple years, but movies sometimes don't even last a couple months before leaving Netflix. Pretty hard to justify switching from DVD/BluRay to streaming when everything could vanish if a rights-holder has a dispute with your streaming service, another service pays for exclusivity, or they want to launch their own service. I lost access to Doctor Who for that reason, and will probably lose access to Star Trek eventually, too. After that, the only thing holding me to Netflix will be Black Mirror.
Effectively you can purchase the perpetual right to stream a particular movie or TV show from Amazon, or you can purchase the perpetual right to stream a particular movie or TV show from iTunes or download it to a device. Those are two that I'm aware of, and I'm sure there are others.
We don't have cable television (we pay for a package from the cable company that only includes the local OTA channels), so the former is how my wife and I watch Better Call Saul and Humans, and the latter is how I watched Brockmire.
Quote from: abefroman329 on February 06, 2018, 01:40:25 PM
I'm no conspiracy theorist, but I'm sure there's a way the copyright owner could prevent you from playing back those as well.
I don't think so. How would it be any different than, say, playing an out-of-print CD or album?
But if the rights owner decides to stop allowing streaming sometime in the future, I'm sure somewhere in the fine print you will find that they have the right to discontinue any specific content without compensation.
Quote from: Doctor Whom on February 06, 2018, 11:56:47 AM
Quote from: roadman on February 06, 2018, 11:46:14 AMWhat happens if my computer, mp3 player, or other device crashes?
Since I back up regularly, I can restore it from backup. What am I missing here?
Over the holidays, I re-ripped all of my CDs at a high bitrate and placed them on a Plex media server (http://markholtz.info/plex). That media server, in turn, is running as a plug-in on a FreeNAS server (http://markholtz.info/freenas) with eight 5TB drives running in a RAIDZ2 configuration so that two of the drives can fail without losing data, although the server would be running in a degraded condition. That Plex file share, in turn, is backed up onto a external 4TB drive using FreeFileSync (http://markholtz.info/freefilesync).
Oh, yeah, I still retain the original copies.
Quote from: ZLoth on February 06, 2018, 07:12:57 PM
Quote from: Doctor Whom on February 06, 2018, 11:56:47 AM
Quote from: roadman on February 06, 2018, 11:46:14 AMWhat happens if my computer, mp3 player, or other device crashes?
Since I back up regularly, I can restore it from backup. What am I missing here?
Over the holidays, I re-ripped all of my CDs at a high bitrate and placed them on a Plex media server (http://markholtz.info/plex). That media server, in turn, is running as a plug-in on a FreeNAS server (http://markholtz.info/freenas) with eight 5TB drives running in a RAIDZ2 configuration so that two of the drives can fail without losing data, although the server would be running in a degraded condition. That Plex file share, in turn, is backed up onto a external 4TB drive using FreeFileSync (http://markholtz.info/freefilesync).
Oh, yeah, I still retain the original copies.
I assume the external 4TB drives get rotated so at least one is always offsite as well?
Quote from: kkt on February 06, 2018, 08:00:51 PM
Quote from: ZLoth on February 06, 2018, 07:12:57 PM
Quote from: Doctor Whom on February 06, 2018, 11:56:47 AM
Quote from: roadman on February 06, 2018, 11:46:14 AMWhat happens if my computer, mp3 player, or other device crashes?
Since I back up regularly, I can restore it from backup. What am I missing here?
Over the holidays, I re-ripped all of my CDs at a high bitrate and placed them on a Plex media server (http://markholtz.info/plex). That media server, in turn, is running as a plug-in on a FreeNAS server (http://markholtz.info/freenas) with eight 5TB drives running in a RAIDZ2 configuration so that two of the drives can fail without losing data, although the server would be running in a degraded condition. That Plex file share, in turn, is backed up onto a external 4TB drive using FreeFileSync (http://markholtz.info/freefilesync).
Oh, yeah, I still retain the original copies.
I assume the external 4TB drives get rotated so at least one is always offsite as well?
Only have a single 4TB drive for the Plex media backup.
Quote from: ZLoth on February 06, 2018, 07:45:42 AM
Quote from: cjk374 on February 06, 2018, 07:17:54 AM
And now LPs/vinyl is making a comeback. What is old is new again.
I can understand the comeback of LPs. I don't understand why people would want cassette tapes or VHS tapes to come back.
Well, until CD-Rs and CD-RW's came out, they were the only places you could make your own music mixes. I was actually tempted by the idea of replacing my tapes with those, but I found out I could actually fit fewer songs on them than on one of my mix tapes. I've also tried making my own digital replacements but the songs didn't go in the order I wanted, even though I reorganized the number prefixes hoping they would.
QuoteIt's Time To Say Goodbye To The CD Player In New American Cars
Concur that they're a bit late. Neither my wife's 2016 Trailhawk nor my 2017 CrossTrek have a C/D player. In fact, my CrossTrek has Apple Car Play, which easily allows me to plug in a
<*insert random Apple portable device*> and play my music library. Of course, every car model we've had since 2012 has had similar capability (plugging in a portable device and playing the music on it, *without* needing to use the AUX connection).
Quote from: hbelkinsI can't remember the last time I bought a new-release musical performance in any form, however. Pretty much everything that's being put out these days is awful. I'm not into pop, rap, or anything else that is "hip" these days. What's a metalhead going to do these days?
Clearly you haven't kept up with modern hard/metal rock...plenty of decent stuff in that genre.
Quote from: froggie on February 07, 2018, 09:18:14 AM
Quote from: hbelkinsI can't remember the last time I bought a new-release musical performance in any form, however. Pretty much everything that's being put out these days is awful. I'm not into pop, rap, or anything else that is "hip" these days. What's a metalhead going to do these days?
Clearly you haven't kept up with modern hard/metal rock...plenty of decent stuff in that genre.
I feel the same way, but there's usually something new (and good) out there in any genre, usually further from the mainstream, if you're willing to dig around and be patient. While before, you loaned and traded music to get a feel for what's out there, now you can go to YouTube or stream stuff on various platforms. There was great music then, but also a lot of crud...in essence, not much has changed. If anything, there's even more choices than ever before, so the potential exists for some great music yet to be found. We also tend to clutch at music from our past, if for no reason other than its comforting familiarity.
I have to remind myself of all this occasionally!
Since the younger generations love older music nowadays, they should appreciate the fact that LP records are back, which is the same medium that we at their age considered dinosaurs back in the 80s, when CDs were the fresh new trend. Now that the reverse has occurred, I'm suspecting that it won't be long before the next generation of kids to be born asks what CDs are, although we still have DVDs and Blu-Rays to go around. Here's hoping that there'll still be music stores that will sell used CDs at bargain prices so that we can add to our collections, and that some of the great albums from the 90s and 2000s will be recreated in LP form.
Vinyl is a niche market and will always remain a niche market for audio snobs who are good at convincing themselves shit sounds better on vinyl and have plenty of space to store piles of wax.
On the opposite end of the spectrum, reliance on streaming your music means you have no control over it. Any disagreements between among the corporate slime that wedge themselves between artists and fans could result in your loss of access. Even purchased digital music that you allegedly 'own' can be taken away from you since a lot of these files need an internet connection to 'phone in' and check and see that the device trying to play it is 'authorized' to do so.
Streaming movies and TV is a little more tenuous than music. Probably no one is going to cut off your access to The Rolling Stones. But Disney is about to launch it's own streaming service. If you've been using another streaming service to view any of the many, many, many networks, shows and franchises they own, you are going to lose that access. Unless you shell out more moola for an additional streaming service.
If there's a movie or TV show I really like and always want access to, I acquire my own personal copy. Whether that's a DVD or something digital, I want it so that I control it and I'll never have to 'pay' for it again. I don't have to worry about it going away because some asshole companies are in a pissing war. Or it turns out someone involved was human garbage so we don't get to see their art anymore. :rolleyes:
In the area where I live, streaming services are practically worthless. More than half my drive to work each day is devoid of cell service.
Best Buy used to be one of my go to stores for new music back in the day, along with a local music store. However I now live in an area where the nearest Best Buy and/or good music store is over a 30 minute drive away. So my CD collecting has slowed down from my teen/college years. I suppose I could order online, but it just isn't the same as looking through racks of CDs and agonizing over which ones I want most. But what I really miss is the days of Columbia House and BMG music services where you could get 12 CDs for a penny when you signed up. I used to sign up with one service, get my 12 CDs, get the minimum necessary to satisfy the membership requirements, cancel my membership, then sign up with the other service and do the same, then repeat. I got so many of my CDs that way, and I was willing to risk a few duds just to try them out for a penny/dozen. I still prefer physical copies over digital. They may take up a whole piece of furniture in my bedroom but I like being able to see the artwork, lyrics, etc.
Yet another topic to make me feel old. I'm 60, I remember buying CDs when they first came out and not having a player for them. I think my first CD player was a Technics, it played one disc, and IIRC, it was around $150-$200. I recall someone I worked with spent over $500 for a CD player.
It was incentive to buy a decent (bias knob!) cassette recorder and make mix tapes to play in the Mustang. Wasn't too many years (87? 88?) I bought a Toshiba DX-900 VHS VCR and made digital mix tapes 6 hours long. I still have some of the tapes, but nothing to play them on (in digital, the Hi-Fi tracks are still playable). If you're thinking a 6 hour mix tape put together one song at a time from various CDs took much longer than 6 hours, you are correct.
Quote from: Rothman on February 06, 2018, 09:26:29 AM
Eesh. Audio cassettes were a wrong-way turn on media progress. Stupid things degrade after the first play.
Quote from: LM117 on February 06, 2018, 10:47:34 AM
Quote from: ZLoth on February 06, 2018, 07:45:42 AMI don't understand why people would want cassette tapes or VHS tapes to come back.
Me either. They degrade and sound/look like ass.
Prerecorded cassettes -- likely most people's reference point -- were indeed pieces of shit. I spent a good deal of the early '80's ripping my own cassettes from primarily LP's and, later, CD's (at least until I acquired a vehicle with a CD player, which didn't happen until the '90's!). With a good deck with adjustable bias (I invariably owned Nakamichis) and a good high-bias tape like the Maxell XL II or TDK SAX, you could get something that transferred about 90-95% of the LP quality to tape. If car listening was the main goal (which it was for me), one generally found back then that factory-installed car systems sucked shit! I owned a series of mini-trucks (Mazda, Mitsubishi) in the '80's and early '90's and always chose one without any kind of media installed so I could select my own playback device, amplification, and speakers (I am an admitted audiophile, so I may have a biased view of such things). In short, with a bit of care & feeding of both record and playback systems, short of absolute fidelity (which I accepted albeit reluctantly!) there was nothing wrong with the cassette tape format. And it kept things in the analog realm -- these days, that can and does make something of a difference. Digital = convenience, but at a sonic price. But I do like physical media (have about 3K LP's and maybe 700 CD's) -- but in an urban environment like the one in which I'm presently residing, there seem to be plenty of small stores to "feed my need", so to speak; I haven't bought a CD, DVD, or anything else from Best Buy or Target for years. And we still have Fry's up here; they haven't given any indication that they're going to 86 their CD's as of yet. But I'll still get most of my music recordings from independents. Nevertheless, I can see how the loss of this physical media would adversely affect regions with less variety in terms of vendors (I wonder if Amazon's reach will help to fill in the gaps, so to speak).
Interestingly, I still have nearly a hundred unrecorded cassettes (mostly TDK); I should snag a few random ones and see if the oxide coating has held up for the 20+ years they've been in a drawer (still have one of my Nakamichis in good shape). Seeing as how my old Camry has both a cassette player and a CD deck (the latter is screwing up intermittently!), this might just be a neat little project. So -- thanks to the posters who derided the cassette format for reminding me that I still can actively make analog recordings. Maybe I'll look into reel-to-reel next...................
P.S. -- Agree about VHS; the old Betamax format was, in terms of visual quality, much, much better -- but the mechanism was more difficult to manufacture, so eventually VHS became the default mode and Beta died off -- too bad!
Quote from: formulanone on February 06, 2018, 11:08:23 AMProbably won't be too long until the DVDs go away, but there still seems to be a steady market for new releases, new TV seasons, and box sets. For now, you can't (legally) get every movie online.
'Older' people watch new TV shows/movies via disks, they don't listen to new music that way anywhere near as much.
Quote from: sparker on February 07, 2018, 06:15:30 PM
P.S. -- Agree about VHS; the old Betamax format was, in terms of visual quality, much, much better -- but the mechanism was more difficult to manufacture, so eventually VHS became the default mode and Beta died off -- too bad!
Doesn't help that because of that video quality, Sony assumed that publishers and consumers would be willing to pay substantially more for Betamax than VHS. They assumed wrong. However, it was used in TV production, so Betamax did outlast VHS after all.
Quote from: english si on February 07, 2018, 06:46:50 PM
Quote from: formulanone on February 06, 2018, 11:08:23 AMProbably won't be too long until the DVDs go away, but there still seems to be a steady market for new releases, new TV seasons, and box sets. For now, you can't (legally) get every movie online.
'Older' people watch new TV shows/movies via disks, they don't listen to new music that way anywhere near as much.
Over here, the selection of movies on Netflix (I haven't bothered with any other streaming services yet) is far from complete. They drop movies/series on a monthly basis. If I'm just setting up a single movie, I can break out a DVD and cue it up in about the same about of time that it takes for Netflix to buffer. So there's still a reason to keep the Star Wars disks around, and The Simpsons box-sets.
But it was probably 2005 since I listened to more than one CD in the same sitting, excluding ripping them to MP3s. They've been in boxes for at least a decade now.
End of an era, or at least the beginning of the end IMO.
Quote from: vdeane on February 07, 2018, 08:00:52 PM
Quote from: sparker on February 07, 2018, 06:15:30 PM
P.S. -- Agree about VHS; the old Betamax format was, in terms of visual quality, much, much better -- but the mechanism was more difficult to manufacture, so eventually VHS became the default mode and Beta died off -- too bad!
Doesn't help that because of that video quality, Sony assumed that publishers and consumers would be willing to pay substantially more for Betamax than VHS. They assumed wrong. However, it was used in TV production, so Betamax did outlast VHS after all.
Also -- the Beta tape system was simply a scaled-down version of Sony's "U-Matic" commercial product, with the tape wrapping around about 60% of the round recording head assembly (VHS merely pressed the tape against the head assembly in one spot, with correspondingly less resolution). But Sony was also a bit arrogant about the superiority of their system, demanding outsized royalty fees from any other manufacturer electing to utilize their system. JVC, the actual patent holder for VHS, decided that volume would produce more user fees than cost, so they adopted a very low royalty schedule that actually diminished over the years. Once RCA, Matsushita, Samsung, and other major VCR suppliers started cranking out VHS machines in massive quantities after about 1982 it became clear that the economics of the business was leaning toward providing simple TV time-shifting capabilities rather than ultra-high-resolution video recording. VHS remained king until consumer DVD "burners" came on line right around the turn of the century.
FWIW, I haven't bought a mainstream music CD in at least a decade. (I have, and probably will continue to, acquired some specialty CD's that you might encounter at a small, no-name performance.) For the past 20-25 years, any music CD I acquired was immediately ripped at the highest bitrate I could achieve.
I did recently finally make the jump to streaming music (and killed my SiriusXM subscription for the car), driven in part by unlimited cellular data plans, and by getting a couple of Amazon Echo devices for the house. I figured I was an old fogey for waiting so long to make that change...and I still don't have all my playlists set up in that format yet.
I think DVDs and Blue-Rays have some life in them yet. There are still plenty of people out there who don't have decent broadband access yet, and data caps on both wireless and wired broadband discourage a nontrivial number of folks from streaming video.
CD's are horrible archiving discs. I had to convince a co-worker a few days ago that the music they had all saved to discs were going to degrade eventually. To illustrate the point, I brought in some CD's that I had archived photos on that had deteriorated to the point that the CD reader in the iMac had seized - and I had to do a hard reboot. The discs were always a crapshoot on build quality.
I have used streaming services - Spotify, and now Apple Music, for years. What I can't find I purchase and then add it to the respective service.
As for DVD's and other movie discs - the highest usage of RedBox and other rental services are in rural areas. I'm not able to find the paper, but the highest usage rates of RedBox were in Appalachia, which is not surprising.
Quote from: Jardine on February 07, 2018, 05:52:35 PM
....
It was incentive to buy a decent (bias knob!) cassette recorder and make mix tapes to play in the Mustang. Wasn't too many years (87? 88?) I bought a Toshiba DX-900 VHS VCR and made digital mix tapes 6 hours long. I still have some of the tapes, but nothing to play them on (in digital, the Hi-Fi tracks are still playable). If you're thinking a 6 hour mix tape put together one song at a time from various CDs took much longer than 6 hours, you are correct.
Heh. My '04 Acura can play DVD-Audio discs. The format flopped in the market, but one useful thing about it is that with the right software, you can burn your own discs. While I sometimes burn high-rez .FLAC material (Springsteen concerts, mostly) in the native format, another use for DVD-Audio is the ability to store large amounts of CD-quality music on a single disc. I have a mixed DVD that runs for over seven hours; as you say, that took forever to sequence. I suppose this would be the solution for transferring my various mixed tapes, except it would take forever–I'd have to copy the tapes to CD using my stereo (two CD-RWs per tape), then rip the CDs, then convert to DVD-Audio, then burn. Not sure it's worth the trouble.
Naturally, our newer car doesn't play that format because it flopped. So when someday my '04 Acura gives up the ghost, those DVD-Audio discs will be useless except downstairs where my home stereo has a Marantz "universal player" that handles them (not truly universal, of course, since it predates Blu-ray and doesn't handle certain older formats like Laserdisc, although I don't have any of the latter anyway).
My 1992-era Denon cassette deck is still hooked up downstairs, although I haven't used it in a couple of years. I loved it in college because it confused the hell out of people. The cassette goes in a drawer, similar to a CD player; Denon said one reason for the design was because so many cassettes are played at a near-horizontal angle in cars that it made sense to orient the recorder in a similar way. I have no idea whether that's true from an engineering standpoint, but it absolutely confounded people when they saw that drawer open and then saw it was clearly designed to hold a cassette tape.
Quote from: seicer on February 08, 2018, 07:33:59 AM
CD's are horrible archiving discs. I had to convince a co-worker a few days ago that the music they had all saved to discs were going to degrade eventually. To illustrate the point, I brought in some CD's that I had archived photos on that had deteriorated to the point that the CD reader in the iMac had seized - and I had to do a hard reboot. The discs were always a crapshoot on build quality.
I have used streaming services - Spotify, and now Apple Music, for years. What I can't find I purchase and then add it to the respective service.
As for DVD's and other movie discs - the highest usage of RedBox and other rental services are in rural areas. I'm not able to find the paper, but the highest usage rates of RedBox were in Appalachia, which is not surprising.
What about my 2 iPod shuffles, how will those fare out storage wise in the future.
Kind of interesting in that throughout most of the 1980s and into the 1990s, the big constant headlines in Billboard were supposed losses to the record labels due to 'home taping' (the ubiquitous 'mixer' cassette tapes) and the looming prospect of DAT ('Digital Audio Tape') and their feared (within the industry, AKA the RIAA) ability to make 'perfect' serial copies of material.
By the time that all of the legal and legislative wrangling of both was beginning to wind down by the early to mid 1990s, DAT technology was already left behind in the dust. Public demonstrations of DAT vs CD technology showed that CDs, including the eventual introduction of home CD 'burners', were vastly superior, especially in the random access ability of CDs. Later on, with the rapidly increasing processing power of home computers, the introduction of digital compression algorithms (.mp3, .aac, etc) and the orders of magnitude increases in the bandwidth of internet connections, the final stakes were driven into the older physical media technologies for non-audiophile use.
When audio CDs were first introduced in the 1980s, they were thought to be uncopyable (no 'perfect' digital copies were possible). I can easily imagine that had home CD burners come out at the same time that the audio CD was first introduced, the RIAA would have done their very best to sue the technology into oblivion.
Mike
The biggest shortcoming of CD's and cassettes is the limited amount of time you get. Just over an hour is too short when driving long distances. There's also a road safety issue with this when changing discs and tapes whilst driving. I haven't used CD's in well over a decade. All the cars I've had since around 2005 have had USB playback, either I bought a replacement head unit or the car had a USB socket factory fitted. With a high capacity stick and 256kb MP3's I can have several days of CD quality audio without having to change discs or listen to the same songs each hour.
The computer I'm typing this on is hooked up to an amplifier and Aiwa twin cassette deck I bought new in 1997. Over 20 years later the rubber bands are still like new and I use it now solely for ripping recordings of pirate radio stations. I will sell it eventually when I have no further use for it.
Quote from: Hurricane Rex on February 08, 2018, 11:58:49 AM
Quote from: seicer on February 08, 2018, 07:33:59 AM
CD's are horrible archiving discs. I had to convince a co-worker a few days ago that the music they had all saved to discs were going to degrade eventually. To illustrate the point, I brought in some CD's that I had archived photos on that had deteriorated to the point that the CD reader in the iMac had seized - and I had to do a hard reboot. The discs were always a crapshoot on build quality.
I have used streaming services - Spotify, and now Apple Music, for years. What I can't find I purchase and then add it to the respective service.
As for DVD's and other movie discs - the highest usage of RedBox and other rental services are in rural areas. I'm not able to find the paper, but the highest usage rates of RedBox were in Appalachia, which is not surprising.
What about my 2 iPod shuffles, how will those fare out storage wise in the future.
Depends on the storage medium. Many of the earlier iPods had traditional hard drives that were mechanical - similar to most hard drives today. Those components do wear out and hard drives can die.
All modern music devices - and many new hard drives are solid state (SSD). They contain no moving parts. While much more expensive, they are vastly more reliable. The prices for those SSD's are falling fast.
The most reliable method of long-term, high-capacity storage is the tape backup. These still do exist and the drives for those are expensive. The tapes themselves tend to be cost-effective, especially for large sizes. The downside to this is the read/write speeds are painfully slow.
For music - it's a moot point. Solid state drives work best, and any modern music device and smartphone will have one.
Quote from: mgk920 on February 08, 2018, 12:34:03 PM
When audio CDs were first introduced in the 1980s, they were thought to be uncopyable (no 'perfect' digital copies were possible). I can easily imagine that had home CD burners come out at the same time that the audio CD was first introduced, the RIAA would have done their very best to sue the technology into oblivion.
Probably would have been similar to how the MPAA has been handling the digital revolution. DVDs have always been encrypted, and BluRays have even more DRM - to the point that someone who didn't keep up with the software upgrades on their player would now be unable to play modern discs. Modern players are also programmed to know what they're connected to and refuse playback if they detect a recording device on the other end of the HDMI cable.
Quote from: Jardine on February 07, 2018, 05:52:35 PM
Yet another topic to make me feel old. I'm 60, I remember buying CDs when they first came out and not having a player for them. I think my first CD player was a Technics, it played one disc, and IIRC, it was around $150-$200. I recall someone I worked with spent over $500 for a CD player.
IIRC the first CD player retailed for $800.
One item that started out as a luxury that became the only means of listening to music until the internet. I remember when they first came out, they were more $ than vinyl and cassettes. Then one day I went to replace my Lynyrd Skynrd One More For From The Road double live album and then notice that Music Den in Menlo Park Mall in Edison, NJ had all the albums under the counter in boxes as they were liquidating as that was when the music industry decided to make it "The" way to listen instead of being a choice.
Its a shame now, as we evolve once more.
Quote from: vdeane on February 08, 2018, 01:38:17 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 08, 2018, 12:34:03 PM
When audio CDs were first introduced in the 1980s, they were thought to be uncopyable (no 'perfect' digital copies were possible). I can easily imagine that had home CD burners come out at the same time that the audio CD was first introduced, the RIAA would have done their very best to sue the technology into oblivion.
Probably would have been similar to how the MPAA has been handling the digital revolution. DVDs have always been encrypted, and BluRays have even more DRM - to the point that someone who didn't keep up with the software upgrades on their player would now be unable to play modern discs. Modern players are also programmed to know what they're connected to and refuse playback if they detect a recording device on the other end of the HDMI cable.
OTOH, the perceived 'value' of a legitimate movie DVD/BluRay is often far, far greater than the perceived 'value' of a legitimate audio CD - for only a few dollars extra, you get a multitude more stuff - a 1.5 hour+ full movie, out takes, a director's interview and often many other goodies in the box whereas with an audio CD, it is maybe a hour or so of sound (of which you might only like 10-15 minutes of it) and a liner sheet.
Getting a pirate copy of a movie DVD/BluRay isn't worth the bother compared with the music CD.
Mike
Quote from: abefroman329 on February 08, 2018, 04:12:41 PM
Quote from: Jardine on February 07, 2018, 05:52:35 PM
Yet another topic to make me feel old. I'm 60, I remember buying CDs when they first came out and not having a player for them. I think my first CD player was a Technics, it played one disc, and IIRC, it was around $150-$200. I recall someone I worked with spent over $500 for a CD player.
IIRC the first CD player retailed for $800.
The first CD player to be introduced (in October 1982) was a Magnavox CDP-101 (made in Holland by Philips, the parent company of Magnavox); its suggested retail was $649 (I was working for a dealer at the time, and remembered the factory rep dropping off a carton of 3 of them: one for display and two for stock). But there was enough dealer margin that the average selling price -- figuring customer negotiation -- was closer to $500. Sony's version, with their own digital converters and a different laser system, was released between Thanksgiving and Christmas and
did retail for about $800 (but widely discounted by about 20%). The 2nd generation stuff -- still the original 14-bit resolution, started showing up about a year later and was at much lower price points (about $300-350 and up); at that time, we also got our first "high-end" CD player, the NEC model 805 (priced at a cool grand), which used a Sony laser system but Philips DAC chips in a ultra-heavy (about 25#) chassis; NEC claimed that the weight was necessary to "sink" resonances; I remember it being the best-sounding machine until late '86, when the first Philips-made 16-bit machines started coming on line.
Quote from: Jardine on February 07, 2018, 05:52:35 PM
Yet another topic to make me feel old. I'm 60, I remember buying CDs when they first came out and not having a player for them. I think my first CD player was a Technics, it played one disc, and IIRC, it was around $150-$200. I recall someone I worked with spent over $500 for a CD player.
With me, it's the exact opposite. I once ordered a vinyl copy of The Wretched Ones' self-titled album, passing up the CD, because I didn't have a CD player.
All of the sudden for Christmas, I ended up with a CD player... within weeks of getting the album. I forget the make and model (which I still have in storage somewhere), but it was probably somewhere in the $150-200 range, give or take ten or twenty bucks.
Quote from: vdeane on February 06, 2018, 01:55:33 PM
Have digital non-streaming movies/TV shows taken off? My understanding is that most of the digital video action is with streaming services like Netflix and Amazon Prime, and nothing that isn't original content is guaranteed to stay on for long.
Pirated digital non-streaming movies/TV shows have been a thing for quite some time. But yes I don't know of there being much of a market for content being purchased in this manner. The key hurdle is that most people will want to watch it on their big screen TV, not on their computer.
For this reason, Blu-Rays are still a thing and not in any particular state of decline. DVDs, on the other hand, are at this point the cheap alternative - but they are propped up somewhat as a format by the fact that once you have a disc player there is relatively little marginal cost to make it able to play DVDs as well as blu-rays. They are the same exact size and shape and fit in the same tray.
As for CDs... yeah it is kind of weird that they have lasted as long as they have. From when CDs first hit the market to when vinyl was dead as a doornail for new music took about 10 years. DVDs similarly supplanted VHS tapes in about 7 years. But here we are two full decades after Napster introduced the world to downloading music and you can still get just about any new album on CD if you are so inclined.
I do think cars are part of why. It's only within the past 5 years or so that cars have really made it to the point of being able to play digital music on their own without an attached device (and even then, some models still suck at this). Given the lifecycle of the average automobile it will be years still before cars that lack this ability are mostly not on the road anymore.
Quote from: Duke87 on February 09, 2018, 01:54:32 AM
But yes I don't know of there being much of a market for content being purchased in this manner. The key hurdle is that most people will want to watch it on their big screen TV, not on their computer.
Oh? If someone is sophisticated enough to download a video file, they can copy that video file to the stick, then play that file on a Television, BluRay player, or media player that supports USB.
If someone is really sophisticated, they can set up a Plex (http://markholtz.info/plex) (what I use) or similar media player to serve up that file through a web browser, DLC, or an application on your mobile device, television, or media player.
Believe it or not, while I had a portable CD player, I never had a regular CD player. Almost 20 years after CDs were introduced, DVD players were available that could play CDs.
Heck, there are still some productions that only get a DVD release, with no BluRay. The US season sets for The Librarians come to mind. I think the same is true of Steven Universe.
Quote from: Duke87 on February 09, 2018, 01:54:32 AMBut yes I don't know of there being much of a market for content being purchased in this manner. The key hurdle is that most people will want to watch it on their big screen TV, not on their computer
However, thanks to the mass switch to ATSC, most households' primary TVs have HDMI ports. Gadgets to feed streaming video to HDMI are fairly cheap and fairly small...if you don't want to simply plug in the computer to the TV, or if the TV isn't "smart" enough to have the necessary software built in.
I forget what benefit it was supposed to provide but I recall early on in the CD era we were supposed to take a green felt tip pen and mark the outer edges of all our CDs.
:-D
Quote from: 1 on February 09, 2018, 08:06:19 PM
Quote from: Jardine on February 09, 2018, 08:02:44 PM
I forget what benefit it was supposed to provide but I recall early on in the CD era we were supposed to take a green felt tip pen and mark the outer edges of all our CDs.
:-D
I believe it was to remove the information that says it can't be copied or for other restrictions. However, the actual data starts from the inside, so if the amount of time isn't at full capacity, no actual music will be lost.
Actually, it was to prevent laser diffraction from traveling through the clear polycarbonate CD body, which might, on less than properly aligned CD transports, cause "falsing", making the CD playback skip or otherwise not read data properly. Most felt pens didn't do the trick, since they merely colored the inner and outer edges while remaining translucent. There was a product available for years called "CD Stoplight", which was a medium-green
paint -- not ink -- applicator with a groove built into the tip to run around the edges of the CD's. They were about $15-20 a pop; I tried it out back in the '90's, but found that the applicator would release pools of green ink where you didn't want it -- tabletops, carpet, etc. Didn't seem to make any real sonic difference in any case -- a one-time purchase on my part!
Quote from: Duke87 on February 09, 2018, 01:54:32 AM
....
I do think cars are part of why. It's only within the past 5 years or so that cars have really made it to the point of being able to play digital music on their own without an attached device (and even then, some models still suck at this). Given the lifecycle of the average automobile it will be years still before cars that lack this ability are mostly not on the road anymore.
CDs contain digital music. It's a question of compatible storage media. Cars have been able to play CDs, and hence "digital music," since the 1980s, but it's only more recently that they've been able to handle the various portable and wireless players the media incorrectly call ".MP3 players" (it's incorrect because the vast majority of such are not limited to that format).
Each Christmas I get my young niece and nephew some old movie or TV show on DVD to indoctrinate them into liking what I did at their age. This year the ubiquitous DVD impulse-buy displays at Target were nearly gone. I'm going to have to get the Munsters online I guess.
Don't need cds when things like itunes and spotify have so much music on them.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 15, 2018, 07:12:22 PM
Don't need cds when things like itunes and spotify have so much music on them.
Until the artist whose music you like decides not to participate with those services, or you want a high-resolution recording instead of lossy compression.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 15, 2018, 07:12:22 PM
Don't need cds when things like itunes and spotify have so much music on them.
Age=14
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 15, 2018, 08:43:53 PM
the artist whose music you like decides not to participate with those services, or you want a high-resolution recording instead of lossy compression.
Age=44
Guess which one of you the music industry is more interested in.
Quote from: spooky on February 16, 2018, 08:54:22 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 15, 2018, 07:12:22 PM
Don't need cds when things like itunes and spotify have so much music on them.
Age=14
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 15, 2018, 08:43:53 PM
the artist whose music you like decides not to participate with those services, or you want a high-resolution recording instead of lossy compression.
Age=44
Guess which one of you the music industry is more interested in.
After age 25, most of us become increasingly distant from the music industry's ideas of what we enjoy, as we splinter off into our own interests.
There's always going to be folks that constantly listen to one or two stations, but figure that is also decreasing in overall popularity.
It's going to cater to the 15-25 set, which is definitely when I spent a lot more money on music (and an inverse proportion of my income compared to today).
My response had nothing to do with the music industry and was directed at his comment about how physical media aren't needed.
It's not just older people's music for which that's relevant. I don't listen to Taylor Swift, but I recall the fuss it caused when her management pulled her music from Spotify. My point is, and I think vdeane said something similar to this earlier, if you give an online service control of your access to your music, you give up the ability to ensure you retain access to your music.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 16, 2018, 09:06:47 AM
My response had nothing to do with the music industry and was directed at his comment about how physical media aren't needed.
It's not just older people's music for which that's relevant. I don't listen to Taylor Swift, but I recall the fuss it caused when her management pulled her music from Spotify. My point is, and I think vdeane said something similar to this earlier, if you give an online service control of your access to your music, you give up the ability to ensure you retain access to your music.
Exactly! The discs are self-contained, not dependent on some server at the other end to be working/reachable/rights owners haven't changed their mind.
Also, BTW, I don't mean to imply you should only buy physical discs. I download music, especially Springsteen's archival concert series in 24/192 .FLAC. (He does offer them on CD, but why not get the higher-quality format in less time? I'd go for the DSD release except I don't have a DSD-capable DAC or portable player. I'd like to get an Astell & Kern KANN, but I don't have $999 to spare just now.)
I then either burn it to disc or convert it to the format I need for a given use. But the point is, I make sure it's stored where I control my access to it, not someone else running a server somewhere.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 16, 2018, 11:00:59 AM
I then either burn it to disc or convert it to the format I need for a given use. But the point is, I make sure it's stored where I control my access to it, not someone else running a server somewhere.
Oh...fully agreed, except where downloading an album (or EP) is the only choice (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elseq_1%E2%80%935).
I usually download mp3s from Amazon. I don't really do anything with streaming (beyond songs and remixes uploaded to YouTube). But while most everything mainstream allows that, you can't buy mp3s for everything. For example, if I want to purchase any album from Marie-Mai, I need to buy the CD, because Amazon mp3 has virtually nothing (at least in the US). When it comes to anything not in English, even if it's from Canada, CDs are still king.
Quote from: hbelkins on February 06, 2018, 11:12:54 AM
When Best Buy first opened in Lexington, it was a CD buyer's haven. They carried all sorts of obscure titles, imports, etc. My future wife and I spent many a Saturday evening in Best Buy, browsing and buying.
I can't remember the last time I bought a new-release musical performance in any form, however. Pretty much everything that's being put out these days is awful. I'm not into pop, rap, or anything else that is "hip" these days. What's a metalhead going to do these days?
Quote from: abefroman329 on February 06, 2018, 09:31:32 AM
Target IS going to stop selling music CDs, according to the news report I heard last night.
The trouble with owning digital copies of entertainment (as opposed to owning copies on physical media) is that there isn't much stopping the company from providing the copy to me anymore (Apple yanking a copy of a movie or TV show or song from my iPhone, or Amazon suddenly deciding it's not going to let me stream the movie I purchased any more). I don't have to worry about anyone from a movie studio or record label coming into my house and taking a handful of CDs or DVDs.
The solution, obviously, is to burn an audio CD of the digital tracks you download, and also burn a data CD of those files (AAC if you're buying from Apple). If you have them that way, physically, they're untouchable. Anytime I've bought something off iTunes or another digital source, which is rare, that's what I've done.
I agree that the music out today is awful. Very little talent and high computer oversampling.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 15, 2018, 07:12:22 PM
Don't need cds when things like itunes and spotify have so much music on them.
Sure, if it makes no difference to you that people work their whole lives to make something for you to take from them for free. Those services give the artists basically nothing for their work–use other avenues and pay the musicians something for what they're giving you. They earned it.
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on February 16, 2018, 01:59:37 PMI agree that the music out today is awful. Very little talent and high computer oversampling.
Sure, if you rely on what big business hands to you. On the weekends I look into the smaller local, regional, and national acts in town and I'm astonished how much talent there is out there. Poke around Bandcamp, you'll be pleasantly surprised more than once, and when you buy there, artists get most of the money.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 16, 2018, 07:17:25 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 15, 2018, 07:12:22 PM
Don't need cds when things like itunes and spotify have so much music on them.
Sure, if it makes no difference to you that people work their whole lives to make something for you to take from them for free. Those services give the artists basically nothing for their work–use other avenues and pay the musicians something for what they're giving you. They earned it.
Hey, they choose to put their music on those programs. Some artists do, some don't. It's really up to them. It's like putting your valuables on your front lawn with a sign saying "free stuff" on them.
Plus it's not like artists make a ton of money on CDs, either. The real money is from concerts.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 16, 2018, 10:48:45 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 16, 2018, 07:17:25 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 15, 2018, 07:12:22 PM
Don't need cds when things like itunes and spotify have so much music on them.
Sure, if it makes no difference to you that people work their whole lives to make something for you to take from them for free. Those services give the artists basically nothing for their work–use other avenues and pay the musicians something for what they're giving you. They earned it.
Hey, they choose to put their music on those programs. Some artists do, some don't. It's really up to them. It's like putting your valuables on your front lawn with a sign saying "free stuff" on them.
They're also between a rock and a hard place as far as promotion is concerned. These are the distribution, sales, and promotion channels that have taken over from the previous (and also very flawed) model of radio and physical media. For many artists, the choice is take part in these rotten deals or resign themselves to complete obscurity.
You're responsible for how you take part. There are other alternatives where instead of saying "not my problem they gave in to Apple and Spotify" you can toss a few bucks their way in acknowledgment of the fact that most musical careers now happen with no hope of earning a dime unless listeners voluntarily step up and meet them halfway.
Spotify, Apple Music, Pandora, et al. are set up with one goal in mind–use artist labor and consumer complacency to make a few hedge-fund types even more rich. If you didn't know this before, now you make informed choices.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 16, 2018, 10:48:45 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 16, 2018, 07:17:25 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 15, 2018, 07:12:22 PM
Don't need cds when things like itunes and spotify have so much music on them.
Sure, if it makes no difference to you that people work their whole lives to make something for you to take from them for free. Those services give the artists basically nothing for their work–use other avenues and pay the musicians something for what they're giving you. They earned it.
Hey, they choose to put their music on those programs. Some artists do, some don't. It's really up to them. It's like putting your valuables on your front lawn with a sign saying "free stuff" on them.
You will understand my point much better when you have worked underpaid at a job for many years, and then are asked to do it for free.
With some exceptions, I generally dislike the music from my own generation (1980s), and of American music, really prefer big band, 1940s, and some 1950s music. I also really like soundtracks from movies and television shows.
Now, what if you happen to like stuff that is wayyyyy non-mainstream. There is music from anime series and movies that are require import from Japan.... IF they are still available. The music from Vision of Escaflowne is all OOP.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 16, 2018, 11:33:40 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 16, 2018, 10:48:45 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 16, 2018, 07:17:25 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 15, 2018, 07:12:22 PM
Don't need cds when things like itunes and spotify have so much music on them.
Sure, if it makes no difference to you that people work their whole lives to make something for you to take from them for free. Those services give the artists basically nothing for their work–use other avenues and pay the musicians something for what they're giving you. They earned it.
Hey, they choose to put their music on those programs. Some artists do, some don't. It's really up to them. It's like putting your valuables on your front lawn with a sign saying "free stuff" on them.
They're also between a rock and a hard place as far as promotion is concerned. These are the distribution, sales, and promotion channels that have taken over from the previous (and also very flawed) model of radio and physical media. For many artists, the choice is take part in these rotten deals or resign themselves to complete obscurity.
You're responsible for how you take part. There are other alternatives where instead of saying "not my problem they gave in to Apple and Spotify" you can toss a few bucks their way in acknowledgment of the fact that most musical careers now happen with no hope of earning a dime unless listeners voluntarily step up and meet them halfway.
Spotify, Apple Music, Pandora, et al. are set up with one goal in mind–use artist labor and consumer complacency to make a few hedge-fund types even more rich. If you didn't know this before, now you make informed choices.
Most musicians have made little or no money from recording, it's in performing. Not only live shows, but this includes when recorded tunes are played in commercial businesses, most notably bars and nightclubs, but includes any others that are open to the public. Performance rights licensing organizations (ie, ASCAP, BMI, SESAC) continue reporting strong returns.
The subscription rates for the commercial accounts of these on-line services include these licenses.
Mike
Quote from: seicer on February 08, 2018, 07:33:59 AM
CD's are horrible archiving discs. I had to convince a co-worker a few days ago that the music they had all saved to discs were going to degrade eventually. To illustrate the point, I brought in some CD's that I had archived photos on that had deteriorated to the point that the CD reader in the iMac had seized - and I had to do a hard reboot. The discs were always a crapshoot on build quality.
I have used streaming services - Spotify, and now Apple Music, for years. What I can't find I purchase and then add it to the respective service.
As for DVD's and other movie discs - the highest usage of RedBox and other rental services are in rural areas. I'm not able to find the paper, but the highest usage rates of RedBox were in Appalachia, which is not surprising.
I noticed RedBox tends to place their DVD vending machines at the supermarket but I have no clue how many people are actually going to these places in my area given that there's more emphasis to get movies on a TV App in my area and newer TV's have to connect to the internet and or sell Roku, and appletv at a target or wal-mart in my area. Also my Nieces and Nephews who grew up watching movies or get their music on Tablets, PC's and Newer TV's are not gonna miss the days when CD's are not mainstream and sold in stores. They are under 5. They may not understand their purpose though given how they grew up.
Quote from: mgk920 on February 17, 2018, 11:46:46 AM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 16, 2018, 11:33:40 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 16, 2018, 10:48:45 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 16, 2018, 07:17:25 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 15, 2018, 07:12:22 PM
Don't need cds when things like itunes and spotify have so much music on them.
Sure, if it makes no difference to you that people work their whole lives to make something for you to take from them for free. Those services give the artists basically nothing for their work–use other avenues and pay the musicians something for what they're giving you. They earned it.
Hey, they choose to put their music on those programs. Some artists do, some don't. It's really up to them. It's like putting your valuables on your front lawn with a sign saying "free stuff" on them.
They're also between a rock and a hard place as far as promotion is concerned. These are the distribution, sales, and promotion channels that have taken over from the previous (and also very flawed) model of radio and physical media. For many artists, the choice is take part in these rotten deals or resign themselves to complete obscurity.
You're responsible for how you take part. There are other alternatives where instead of saying "not my problem they gave in to Apple and Spotify" you can toss a few bucks their way in acknowledgment of the fact that most musical careers now happen with no hope of earning a dime unless listeners voluntarily step up and meet them halfway.
Spotify, Apple Music, Pandora, et al. are set up with one goal in mind–use artist labor and consumer complacency to make a few hedge-fund types even more rich. If you didn't know this before, now you make informed choices.
Most musicians have made little or no money from recording, it's in performing. Not only live shows, but this includes when recorded tunes are played in commercial businesses, most notably bars and nightclubs, but includes any others that are open to the public. Performance rights licensing organizations (ie, ASCAP, BMI, SESAC) continue reporting strong returns.
The subscription rates for the commercial accounts of these on-line services include these licenses.
Mike
There are more variables to this than it's likely any of us can either sum up or digest easily, but the payout per play is higher and more guaranteed for big organizations. Independent artists get some fragment of what's left, divvied based on plays and how much the service made that month. It's not nothing, otherwise these artists wouldn't be inspired to keep begging their family and friends to fund album production, as is commonplace at this point.
The consolation is that when the music industry collapsed, it simply returned most music to what it had been for most of time–personal, local, and not a source of much money to any but a very few.