I don't know if this thread has been made before or not.
Anyways, I wanted to make this thread just to see what everyone else thinks about these types of highways.
Now, my personal definition of a "useless highway" is a highway that's less than a mile long, usually has a hanging/random ending, and has no intersections of any other highways.
Arkansas State Highway 266 is a perfect example of this
The entire state highway (Google Maps) (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/AR-266,+Conway,+AR+72032/35.0988628,-92.4233584/@35.0983459,-92.4364108,15.66z/data=!4m9!4m8!1m5!1m1!1s0x87d28221a81c78f3:0xd879ead13f572ca!2m2!1d-92.4381417!2d35.0990651!1m0!3e0)
NC Highways 136 and 400 are both very short (400 being the shortest in the state) and serve very little, ending at a dead end. 136 serves some homes and I think a handful of businesses in Currituck County and is 1.36 miles long and ends at a boat ramp.
NC 400 is more useful but not that important, its existence is hardly known and it wouldn't be any different not existing. It serves the downtown area of Manteo and a festival park, ending at a dead end on a small island. I think this route's in the realm of 4,000-4,500 feet long.
NC 343 south of US 158 also serves some homes and a handful of businesses, and also ends at a dead end.
Also, we definitely have had a bunch of useless/short route threads in the past, I think they've primarily been about Interstate Highways. I don't remember seeing any one about state or federal highways, although I'm 100% sure they exist.
CA 173 is pretty useless given the dirt segment was recently abandoned by the state. Both sides of the highway really don't go anywhere too significant. CA 172 is an old one-lane segment of CA 36 and is closed all winter aside from a couple miles from the eastern terminus.
US 3 north of West Stewartstown NH. North of Pittsburg NH, past where NH 145 ends, there is little to no traffic. The last 20 miles up to the international border are so sparse, on the 40 mile round-trip on a bike ride over about three late morning weekday hours, I encountered 5 vehicles.
CA 107 -- the southern segment between CA 1 and I-405 that wasn't relinquished decades ago -- is pretty useless; just a commercial strip connecting regional malls; it could disappear without consequence. CA 222 is still on the books but is basically a bridge over the Russian River connecting US 101 to a Buddhist retreat located on the grounds of a former state hospital near Ukiah; likely the only thing keeping it within the system is local political pressure to keep state maintenance of the river crossing. And getting back to metro L.A., CA 213, or Western Avenue from I-405 to an abrupt end at W. 25th Street in San Pedro, is about as useless as can be (ostensibly commissioned to ensure state maintenance of an access road to several nearby refineries) as a state route; the street was in use as a multilane facility years before it was commissioned as CA 213.
The current AL 62. Leads to a long dead factory, and had gotten its number (from another highway in the state even!) by the time said factory had already closed.
I have no idea what the purpose of the Swift Highway (Oregon 120) is... or ever was, really. State maintenance on this section has pretty much been scaled back to a bridge and the connection to I-5, and it hasn't been signed as Oregon 120 in the 15 years it's existed. It needs to go.
NJ has several that are just a bridge...we have one that is literally an underpass beneath train tracks. NJ route 59 is 0.15 mile long.
GA 260 in its current form* is pretty useless. It's 1.2 miles long, and all but the westernmost four blocks or so is just a residential street. It does connect US 23 with I-20 (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/33.7402032,-84.3492633/33.7398184,-84.3284155/@33.7433124,-84.3475205,15.01z), but it's faster to just go directly to I-20. If the Moreland Avenue interchange were incomplete, it might have utility, but it isn't.
* until about a decade ago, it continued east to US 278
The first two highways I thought of when I saw the thread title were US 50 and US 6 across Nevada.
And since this excludes Interstates (or really, any roads outside the US as I interpret the thread title), I won't mention the many useless freeways built in Spain during the Noughties.
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on March 13, 2018, 07:02:32 PM
The first two highways I thought of when I saw the thread title were US 50 and US 6 across Nevada.
And since this excludes Interstates (or really, any roads outside the US as I interpret the thread title), I won't mention the many useless freeways built in Spain during the Noughties.
Roads in other countries are also allowed for this as well. I just didn't think anyone from outside the US would reply. :D
Two that come to mind right away:
-IA 165: A state route that doesn't connect to any other routes in a town (Carter Lake, IA) that is separated from the remainder of the state by a river. There is no direct access to the rest of the state. It ends at the NE border on both sides.
-IN 134: Applied on the north-most segment of Girls School Road, this state highway randomly disappears once it passes the girls' school the road is named after. It does hit US 136, however.
There are a few signed state routes Connecticut wanted to get rid of, but arbitration or other agreements led to the routes being retained: 152, 166, 174, 176, 305, and 314.
CT 11, 197, 197, 213, 354
MA 8A, 78, 112
Arkansas has quite a few. Many are state maintained access roads to factories, such as Ar 369 near Paris, Ar which dead ends at the charcoal factory.
There was a section of Ar 102 in Rogers for many years that was state maintained access to a Tyson Chicken plant.
UT 174 is a little-used road that goes to the Intermountain power plant. UT 45 is a highway to nowhere. I have no idea why roads like these are kept as state routes.
Also, compared to other cities/metro areas, the state maintains a much larger proportion of the arterials and collectors in the Wasatch Front metro area. With only three exceptions, every exit of I-15 in Salt Lake County is to a state route. I’m not sure why the cities couldn’t take over a lot of these routes.
A lot of the UT state highways serving state parks and institutions in the 281-320 number block are only given numbers because UDOT maintains the road. As an example, UT 312 begins at a local road and goes half a mile northwest to the boat ramp at Willard Bay. UT 299 is the drivers license test course in West Valley.
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on March 13, 2018, 07:02:32 PM
The first two highways I thought of when I saw the thread title were US 50 and US 6 across Nevada.
And since this excludes Interstates (or really, any roads outside the US as I interpret the thread title), I won't mention the many useless freeways built in Spain during the Noughties.
At minimum they provide secondary access routes through the state. US 50 is a pretty decent alternate to I-80 and has a cool auto-tour segment with the Loneliest Highway segment. US 6/50 provide general access to Great Basin National Park. A lot of the urban routes in Nevada in the 600 plus range are really not needed and rarely signed these days. US 95A/US 93A ought to be renumbered to state highways since they are huge deviations from the mainline highways they represent.
With Arizona some specific routes come to mind. AZ 99 south of doesn't really have a specific destination but it does continue as a Forest Route to AZ 260. The AZ 260 multiplex of AZ 87 ought to be split back into two routes. AZ 77 is multiplexed way too long on US 60 and ought to be spun off into two highways. AZ 89 should have never been bumped down to a state highway from a US Route. The northern segment of AZ 95 ought to be renumbered if it can't meet I-40 within Arizona.
As a general rule, most 2xx and 3xx routes in Minnesota. These are smaller (and mostly spur) routes that connected to small towns or state facilities, with most of them added by the Legislature in 1949. MnDOT has (slowly) been turning them back as they've come to agreements with the relevant counties and towns, but the counties/towns usually mandate that MnDOT reconstruct the roadways in question before they agree to take them over. And MnDOT's Turnback fund isn't exactly flush with cash.
Quote from: froggie on March 14, 2018, 09:17:51 AM
As a general rule, most 2xx and 3xx routes in Minnesota. These are smaller (and mostly spur) routes that connected to small towns or state facilities, with most of them added by the Legislature in 1949. MnDOT has (slowly) been turning them back as they've come to agreements with the relevant counties and towns, but the counties/towns usually mandate that MnDOT reconstruct the roadways in question before they agree to take them over. And MnDOT's Turnback fund isn't exactly flush with cash.
Might just be easier to list the ones that
are safe from turnback, in that regard...
I'd also rather have seen many of those non-institutional spur routes turned into longer, more connective routes for a more comprehensive, denser state-numbered route system, but that's just me digressing into fictional territory.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on March 13, 2018, 09:36:43 PM
MA 8A, 78, 112
Note: there's actually two MA 8As (I didn't know this until checking Google Maps): one's a shorter parallel route to its MA 8 parent in the North Adams area (which isn't too well marked based on GSV), the other's a much longer route that leaves its MA 8 parent route further south in Dalton and heads northward into Halifax, VT where its ends at VT 112. Which 8A were you referring to?
Additionally, at least for the MA examples, is what's your reasoning for listing 8A (either variant) or the other two (78 & 112)? Especially given the OP's view (reposted below):
Quote from: TBKS1 on March 13, 2018, 12:32:20 PMNow, my personal definition of a "useless highway" is a highway that's less than a mile long, usually has a hanging/random ending, and has no intersections of any other highways.
All three of those are
several miles long (including the North Adams 8A) and continue into VT (except the North Adams 8A).
Quote from: MNHighwayManMight just be easier to list the ones that are safe from turnback, in that regard...
Oddly enough, there was one that would have typically been "safe" given MnDOT's policies, but was turned back anyway. That being former MN 242 (now Anoka CSAH 14). 242 was a major route and a principal arterial between US 10 and MN 65. But because 242 was so far down MnDOT's priority list that it didn't even register a blip, Anoka County felt that they could 4-lane it faster via their own funding mechanisms that they took it back from MnDOT. It has since been 4-laned by the county.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on March 13, 2018, 09:36:43 PM
CT 11, 197, 197, 213, 354
I wouldn't count 197, or any other short number (35, 55, 78, 116, 131, 186, 216, 343) that is a short continuation of a route from across a state line. However, I would count MA 15 because of its length and that it's not even signed
Can add a few more for CT: 21, 43, 102, 125, 135, 139, 155, 166, 182, 182A, 200, 244, 314, 316, 318, 361 (especially since NY decommissioned its portion), 364.
Half of the 1.5 mile NJ 324 is a closed road; the other half has 3 houses and a boat yard on it. Due to nearby construction, it's only accessible one way, via a local street that goes under the Commodore Barry Bridge.
Quote from: froggie on March 14, 2018, 11:30:49 AM
Quote from: MNHighwayManMight just be easier to list the ones that are safe from turnback, in that regard...
Oddly enough, there was one that would have typically been "safe" given MnDOT's policies, but was turned back anyway. That being former MN 242 (now Anoka CSAH 14).
Ahh yes, the strange case of MN-242. I actually have a couple vague memories of the old and awful 242/65 intersection from many years ago. That signal just sucked.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 14, 2018, 12:16:13 PM
Half of the 1.5 mile NJ 324 is a closed road; the other half has 3 houses and a boat yard on it. Due to nearby construction, it's only accessible one way, via a local street that goes under the Commodore Barry Bridge.
Low-hanging fruit in my opinion, along with NJ 167 that caters to Chestnut Neck Boat Yard, and NJ 163 which could easily be grassed over.
NJ 47 between both ends of NJ 347 is a little easier to knock and could be downgraded to a county highway (CR 553 extension?), with the designation transferred full-time to current NJ 347.
One thing I found interesting is that in some places, a Virginia primary route will branch off a secondary route if it's a route serving a state park or other facility. Such occurs at Natural Tunnel State Park, where the old route of US 23/58/421 has a secondary number, but there are several branches of a 300-series primary route intersecting it.
Quote from: CrystalWalrein on March 14, 2018, 12:23:06 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 14, 2018, 12:16:13 PM
Half of the 1.5 mile NJ 324 is a closed road; the other half has 3 houses and a boat yard on it. Due to nearby construction, it's only accessible one way, via a local street that goes under the Commodore Barry Bridge.
Low-hanging fruit in my opinion, along with NJ 167 that caters to Chestnut Neck Boat Yard, and NJ 163 which could easily be grassed over.
Isn't that the point of this discussion?
Quote
NJ 47 between both ends of NJ 347 is a little easier to knock and could be downgraded to a county highway (CR 553 extension?), with the designation transferred full-time to current NJ 347.
While the majority of traffic in the NJ 347 area uses 347, and while relative to other state routes within NJ it's not used as often in that particular area, it's still hardly little used, and doesn't meet the OP's other criteria as it's 75 miles long in total, meets up with 130, and intersects with numerous other state and/or US and/or Interstate routes.
Quote from: Super Mateo on March 13, 2018, 07:36:53 PM
Two that come to mind right away:
-IA 165: A state route that doesn't connect to any other routes in a town (Carter Lake, IA) that is separated from the remainder of the state by a river. There is no direct access to the rest of the state. It ends at the NE border on both sides.
-IN 134: Applied on the north-most segment of Girls School Road, this state highway randomly disappears once it passes the girls' school the road is named after. It does hit US 136, however.
IN 134 used to go south to US 40, it was cut back to where it ends now a while ago, I think in the early 90s. It's worthless now.
Quote from: Super Mateo on March 13, 2018, 07:36:53 PM
Two that come to mind right away:
-IA 165: A state route that doesn't connect to any other routes in a town (Carter Lake, IA) that is separated from the remainder of the state by a river. There is no direct access to the rest of the state. It ends at the NE border on both sides.
IA 165 is most definitely a useful route, as it's the route from downtown Omaha to Eppley Airfield. It's a bizarre piece of geography there, in that Carter Lake is the part of Iowa west of the Missouri River. IA 165 is generally not useful to Iowans unless you are going to or from Carter Lake.
I can think of a few near where I live that have importance but IMO don't really need to be state primary routes, they could be state secondary routes.
VA-271 in Henrico and Hanover counties
VA-38 in Amelia County
VA-13 in Powhatan and Cumberland counties
WA 339 hasn't had a single car drive over it in decades!
Quote from: hbelkins on March 14, 2018, 02:43:34 PM
One thing I found interesting is that in some places, a Virginia primary route will branch off a secondary route if it's a route serving a state park or other facility. Such occurs at Natural Tunnel State Park, where the old route of US 23/58/421 has a secondary number, but there are several branches of a 300-series primary route intersecting it.
Virginia Primary Routes that only intersect secondary routes (* indicates it once did connect to the primary system):
318, 320*, 322, 324, 325, 326, 328, 330, 335, 336*, 341, 342*, 345*, 353, 355, 370*, 371, 379, 382, 392, 394, 398
Some of New Hampshire's suffixed routes, like 11D and 28A, both in Alton.
WY 391: a less than 0.5 pointless spur to a gravel parking lot.
Quote from: DandyDan on March 14, 2018, 04:48:56 PM
Quote from: Super Mateo on March 13, 2018, 07:36:53 PM
Two that come to mind right away:
-IA 165: A state route that doesn't connect to any other routes in a town (Carter Lake, IA) that is separated from the remainder of the state by a river. There is no direct access to the rest of the state. It ends at the NE border on both sides.
IA 165 is most definitely a useful route, as it's the route from downtown Omaha to Eppley Airfield. It's a bizarre piece of geography there, in that Carter Lake is the part of Iowa west of the Missouri River. IA 165 is generally not useful to Iowans unless you are going to or from Carter Lake.
QuoteNow, my personal definition of a "useless highway" is a highway that's less than a mile long, usually has a hanging/random ending, and has no intersections of any other highways.
I was going by this definition that the OP used. It's less than a mile, it has a hanging ending, and doesn't intersect any other highways. The road itself may be useful, but the state route number on it isn't.
Quote from: silverback1065 on March 14, 2018, 03:24:35 PM
IN 134 used to go south to US 40, it was cut back to where it ends now a while ago, I think in the early 90s. It's worthless now.
I did not know that. That means it may have had some utility in the past, depending on when I-465 was built. Other than the intersection with US 136, this route fits the criteria.
According to PennDOT's traffic counts, showing the HIGHEST AADT I can find for each route, here are some very low counts:
-PA 284 (100)
-PA 928 (350)
-PA 731 (250)
-PA 456 (500)
-PA 546 (550)
-PA 643 (600)
-PA 184 (1500)
-PA 607 (1000)
-PA 244 (950)
-PA 554 (1100)
-PA 641 Truck (600)
I love PA's diverse road network, but sometimes I really wonder if some of these routes should be signed.
Nexus 6P
Quote from: Super Mateo on March 14, 2018, 08:51:35 PM
Quote from: DandyDan on March 14, 2018, 04:48:56 PM
Quote from: Super Mateo on March 13, 2018, 07:36:53 PM
Two that come to mind right away:
-IA 165: A state route that doesn't connect to any other routes in a town (Carter Lake, IA) that is separated from the remainder of the state by a river. There is no direct access to the rest of the state. It ends at the NE border on both sides.
IA 165 is most definitely a useful route, as it's the route from downtown Omaha to Eppley Airfield. It's a bizarre piece of geography there, in that Carter Lake is the part of Iowa west of the Missouri River. IA 165 is generally not useful to Iowans unless you are going to or from Carter Lake.
I was going by this definition that the OP used. It's less than a mile, it has a hanging ending, and doesn't intersect any other highways. The road itself may be useful, but the state route number on it isn't.
I think we can all agree that the situation wouldn't be nearly so odd if Nebraska's part of the road were a state route too.
IN 111 south of IN 211 has no need to be a state highway. It serves no businesses, very few people, and dead ends at a group of houses on the Ohio River.
IN 203 between IN 56 and IN 356 doesn't need to be a state highway. There are other connections between those two highways just a few miles to the east and west.
I should also add that M-185 isn't particularly useful as a numbered route. Sure it's useful for as a road and the numbering of it's cool, but to look at it from a practical standpoint, what point does it serve to number it? I'm sure you could argue this with a good chunk of numbered routes, though. Motor vehicles aren't allowed. It's short and doesn't intersect any other highways. I'm not saying it's bad or anything though, it's an interesting quirk in the highways of the US.
With this, you could also argue that the numbering of highways such as Ohio SR 575 and 357 are pointless. They have hanging ends, intersect no highways, and are isolated, being on islands and all. You could even argue that NC 12 being numbered is pointless by this logic... I'll stop going on about this, not that big a deal. I don't support the decommissioning of these numbers and don't oppose them being there, though. (i'd rather that they would be kept, they're nice and all)
But it is these kind of routes and a lot more that make roadgeeking as interesting as it is, imagine if everything was 100% practical and uniform, and different states did the exact same things with their roads, signals, etc, and there wasn't any variety. Wouldn't be any fun now, would it? Anyways, I'm going really off topic here, I think I'll wrap this up for real.
Quote from: index on March 15, 2018, 09:18:03 AM
I should also add that M-185 isn't particularly useful as a numbered route. Sure it's useful for as a road and the numbering of it's cool, but to look at it from a practical standpoint, what point does it serve to number it? I'm sure you could argue this with a good chunk of numbered routes, though. Motor vehicles aren't allowed. It's short and doesn't intersect any other highways. I'm not saying it's bad or anything though, it's an interesting quirk in the highways of the US.
As quirky as M-185 is it does serve a purpose to the people who actually live on Mackinac Island. The road isn't totally closed to motorized traffic as it is used by motorized vehicles. M-185 is really well post-miled which is really useful trying to find locations on the island. There is actually only one M-185 shield at the beginning/end of the route.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4403/36530538462_f1e903fb6c_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XE5yo3)IMG_4445 (https://flic.kr/p/XE5yo3) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr
Here is an example of a stand-alone mile marker.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4417/36530131252_fe8c174e42_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XE3tkb)IMG_4466 (https://flic.kr/p/XE3tkb) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr
Quote from: index on March 15, 2018, 09:18:03 AM
I should also add that M-185 isn't particularly useful as a numbered route. Sure it's useful for as a road and the numbering of it's cool, but to look at it from a practical standpoint, what point does it serve to number it? I'm sure you could argue this with a good chunk of numbered routes, though. Motor vehicles aren't allowed. It's short and doesn't intersect any other highways. I'm not saying it's bad or anything though, it's an interesting quirk in the highways of the US.
With this, you could also argue that the numbering of highways such as Ohio SR 575 and 357 are pointless. They have hanging ends, intersect no highways, and are isolated, being on islands and all. You could even argue that NC 12 being numbered is pointless by this logic... I'll stop going on about this, not that big a deal. I don't support the decommissioning of these numbers and don't oppose them being there, though. (i'd rather that they would be kept, they're nice and all)
But it is these kind of routes and a lot more that make roadgeeking as interesting as it is, imagine if everything was 100% practical and uniform, and different states did the exact same things with their roads, signals, etc, and there wasn't any variety. Wouldn't be any fun now, would it? Anyways, I'm going really off topic here, I think I'll wrap this up for real.
i'd say most of ohio's urban state highways are useless. also IN 166 is a waste of time.
Quote from: silverback1065 on March 15, 2018, 09:47:05 AM
i'd say most of ohio's urban state highways are useless. also IN 166 is a waste of time.
I thought about including 166 when I mentioned 111, but 166 serves some businesses and more population than 111, so I can see the argument for keeping it a state highway.
Quote from: CrystalWalrein on March 14, 2018, 12:23:06 PM
NJ 47 between both ends of NJ 347 is a little easier to knock and could be downgraded to a county highway (CR 553 extension?), with the designation transferred full-time to current NJ 347.
Why? It's a useful bypass to relieve some capacity, and is similar in its construction to 347. Maybe swap 47 and 347, but why downgrade?
I've never understood why WV 635 is on the state primary system. It runs from WV 83 to the Virginia line, where it becomes VA Secondary 635. I don't see it as being any different than any number of West Virginia county routes that turn into Virginia secondary routes.
Quote from: bzakharin on March 15, 2018, 02:56:54 PM
Quote from: CrystalWalrein on March 14, 2018, 12:23:06 PM
NJ 47 between both ends of NJ 347 is a little easier to knock and could be downgraded to a county highway (CR 553 extension?), with the designation transferred full-time to current NJ 347.
Why? It's a useful bypass to relieve some capacity, and is similar in its construction to 347. Maybe swap 47 and 347, but why downgrade?
It still only serves Maurice River Township, where CR 616 is already the backbone of Dorchester, Leesburg, and Heislerville, all small hamlets. In the scheme of things, New Jersey's state road network tends to be stretched thin in favour of county highways, and downgrading this segment of NJ 47 wouldn't stop it from serving as a bypass of 347 in a pinch.
What about the unsigned (or mostly unsigned) state routes that are paired with U.S. routes in Alabama? Most of them are low-numbered routes that could have been assigned to more meaningful routes:
AL-1: paired with US 431, except south of Dothan, where it's paired with US 231
AL-2: paired with US 72
AL-3: paired with US 31
AL-4: paired with US 78
AL-6: paired with US 82
AL-7: paired with US 11
AL-8: paired with US 80
AL-9: signed north of Wetumpka, paired with US 331 south of Montgomery
AL-12: paired with US 84
AL-13: mainly with paired with US 43, although a minor state route in some stretched
AL-15: paired with US 29
AL-16: paired with US 90
AL-25: signed south of Leeds, but paired with US 411 north of there
AL-38: paired with US 280
AL-42: paired with US 98
AL-53: paired with US 231 from Dothan to Huntsville
AL-74: paired with US 278 east of Hamilton (the town, not the musical :pan:)
i'd say all the us or state highways the parallel a Kentucky parkway in Kentucky, they should just throw them onto the parkway and let the parallel road go to local control.
Quote from: index on March 15, 2018, 09:18:03 AM
I should also add that M-185 isn't particularly useful as a numbered route. Sure it's useful for as a road and the numbering of it's cool, but to look at it from a practical standpoint, what point does it serve to number it?
There are an assortment of VDOT-numbered and VDOT-maintained secondary system roads on the island of Tangier, much of which also happens to be an incorporated town (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Tangier,+VA+23440/@37.8237886,-76.0007903,1888m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x89b989f7e80a49e3:0x63571185a03d2247!8m2!3d37.8262373!4d-75.9916035) of the same name. A significant part of the population there gets around on foot, by bike, by motorbike, four wheeler or in one of the
few cars there. Should these secondary roads go away? No! They serve an important purpose for the people that live there.
In terms of low traffic volumes, there's the matter of U.S. 250 in Highland County (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/38.4749386,-79.6990215/38.3112475,-79.384143/@38.3355853,-79.8316829,60009m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!4m1!3e0), Virginia.
VDOT apparently likes to refer to it as Highland Turnpike, but I have also seen it called Mountain Turnpike (WVDOT calls it the Staunton-Parkersburg Turnpike). 2016 AAWDTs range from 360 at the border with Pocahontas County, West Virginia (about 13 miles west of the county seat of Monterey) to 1200 at the Augusta County border). Rugged and beautiful country, and probably should IMO remain a Virginia primary system highway, but not exactly overloaded with traffic.
WVDOT shows a count from 2015 of about 341 on their side of the border (close enough IMO to the Virginia published count of 360).
Quote from: cpzilliacus on March 17, 2018, 04:43:31 PM
In terms of low traffic volumes, there's the matter of U.S. 250 in Highland County (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/38.4749386,-79.6990215/38.3112475,-79.384143/@38.3355853,-79.8316829,60009m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!4m1!3e0), Virginia.
VDOT apparently likes to refer to it as Highland Turnpike, but I have also seen it called Mountain Turnpike (WVDOT calls it the Staunton-Parkersburg Turnpike). 2016 AAWDTs range from 360 at the border with Pocahontas County, West Virginia (about 13 miles west of the county seat of Monterey) to 1200 at the Augusta County border). Rugged and beautiful country, and probably should IMO remain a Virginia primary system highway, but not exactly overloaded with traffic.
WVDOT shows a count from 2015 of about 341 on their side of the border (close enough IMO to the Virginia published count of 360).
I believe US 191 in Arizona on the Coronado Trail between US 180 south to US 70 in Arizona has even lower traffic counts (less than 100 a day). In fact there was a whole thread dedicated to ADOT floating a couple proposals one of which included shuttering the Coronado Trail and routing US 191 into New Mexico.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on March 17, 2018, 04:43:31 PM
In terms of low traffic volumes, there's the matter of U.S. 250 in Highland County (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/38.4749386,-79.6990215/38.3112475,-79.384143/@38.3355853,-79.8316829,60009m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!4m1!3e0), Virginia.
VDOT apparently likes to refer to it as Highland Turnpike, but I have also seen it called Mountain Turnpike (WVDOT calls it the Staunton-Parkersburg Turnpike). 2016 AAWDTs range from 360 at the border with Pocahontas County, West Virginia (about 13 miles west of the county seat of Monterey) to 1200 at the Augusta County border). Rugged and beautiful country, and probably should IMO remain a Virginia primary system highway, but not exactly overloaded with traffic.
WVDOT shows a count from 2015 of about 341 on their side of the border (close enough IMO to the Virginia published count of 360).
US 220's state line AAWDT north of Monterey is 690 and VA 84's state line AAWDT southwest of Monterey is 200. Highland County's population is under 2200 and is one of a handful of Virginia counties without a stoplight...
ok so this begs the question: what is the lowest AADT for any numbered highway in the US?
Quote from: silverback1065 on March 18, 2018, 10:37:19 PM
ok so this begs the question: what is the lowest AADT for any numbered highway in the US?
I'm pretty certain it's US 191 on the Coronado Trail in regards to US Route. When I clinched CA 229 the local Caltrans crew preforming maintenance told me the one-lane part of the route only got 3-4 cars a day south of Creston to CA 58.
The lowest AADT on a Utah state-maintained highway is 30, on UT-124 between Columbia and the Horse Canyon Mine.
I would say AL 281 has very low traffic counts, in fact the stretch between US 431 and US 78 only has 80-90 cars AADT. And the stretch south of Cheaha State Park has only 100 AADT. In fact the whole route has less than 500 AADT.
If we're talking low AADTs, WYO 77 has an AADT around 24 - it's an old 22 mile long alignment of WYO 487 that connects to it on both ends with nothing along the route that anybody would conceivably need to access, except maybe some hunting spots. It's not faster than just staying on 487, though you can drive as fast as you want which could make it faster - limited only by the rapidly deteriorating pavement.
For "major" routes, a healthy chunk of Montana 200 (part of MSR 200 and the best through route across central Montana) from Grass Range all the way to Sidney (235 miles) has around 500 cars per day on the entire stretch. That doesn't beat the Coronado Trail, but 200 in that part of Montana is a significantly more important highway than 191 in that part of Arizona.
Quote from: silverback1065 on March 18, 2018, 10:37:19 PM
ok so this begs the question: what is the lowest AADT for any numbered highway in the US?
This is an interesting question. Texas has some single-digit and 10 counts on various pieces of road in various years. In the most recent data, for 2016, RM 2810 has a count of 9 near the end of the pavement before it turns into a gravel road. In the past decade, it's been as high as 21.
The lowest number on a non-bypassed through road I can find is 22 on RM 2886, between I-10 and RM 2400. Also notable is a count of 43 on SH 349, because it's a primary state highway and because it's between I-10 and US 90 (it's also a beautiful drive). The lowest maximum count I see is along Loop 293, which serves as a business route for I-10 through Bakersfield. Its two counts, one on each side of town, are 22 and 32. The lowest maximum I found for an entire non-bypassed through road is 70 on RM 2400 (which is also a nice drive). It's a 40-mile road where you can sometimes drive from one end to the other without seeing another vehicle the whole time, but you do usually see one or two.
I'm pretty sure the lowest on a US Highway is 134 along US 385 between I-10 and US 90 and the lowest on an Interstate is 5,612 along I-10 east of I-20.
Quote from: wxfree on March 19, 2018, 01:03:14 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on March 18, 2018, 10:37:19 PM
ok so this begs the question: what is the lowest AADT for any numbered highway in the US?
I'm pretty sure the lowest on a US Highway is 134 along US 385 between I-10 and US 90 and the lowest on an Interstate is 5,612 along I-10 east of I-20.
And to think I ran into a trucker I had a hell of a time passing leaving Big Bend National Park via US 385 back 2013. :rolleyes:
Incidentally I found the article citing the traffic count on US 191/Coronado Trail as 81 vehicles a day.
http://www.eacourier.com/copper_era/news/adot-engineer-it-s-time-for-a-serious-discussion-on/article_a5141af0-c979-11e7-8a80-3f32813c804c.html
Quote from: silverback1065 on March 18, 2018, 10:37:19 PM
ok so this begs the question: what is the lowest AADT for any numbered highway in the US?
Getting into the state-by-state numbers...yeah, good luck looking this one up for Georgia. GDOT's traffic count tool (http://geocounts.com/gdot/) certainly has the data, but searching it is a nightmare. It's probably unlikely there's an AADT under 100 anywhere in our state highway system, though.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 19, 2018, 08:31:32 AM
And to think I ran into a trucker I had a hell of a time passing leaving Big Bend National Park via US 385 back 2013. :rolleyes:
The 2013 counts south of US 90 were even lower than the number I reported, below 100. In 2016 they were around 200. But nearly all of that traffic is driven by park visitation, which is highly variable. During the spring break weeks and the winter holidays visitation, and traffic, go way up. On an annualized basis, that's compensated for by very low traffic for most of the year.
Is there any use for NH 9A, 11C, 11D, 16A (both), 16B, 25B, 28A (northern), 101E, 103B, 110A, 110B, 115A, or 115B?
Quote from: wxfree on March 19, 2018, 01:03:14 AM
I'm pretty sure the lowest on a US Highway is 134 along US 385 between I-10 and US 90 and the lowest on an Interstate is 5,612 along I-10 east of I-20.
I-15 in Idaho and Montana between Idaho Falls and Butte might be lower. Much of that segment was a Super-2 for a long time.
Some of the unsigned Alaska Interstates have three-digit AADTs, especially I-A1 (signed as part of AK 2) between AK 5 and the Canadian border. In 1994 on that stretch, I and another driver pulled over to watch a bald eagle perched on a tree, hoping it would take flight so we could take photos (no luck). During the 15 minutes we were there, not a single vehicle passed in either direction.
Just to be clear, my numbers are limited to Texas, although I'm sure the 9 is pretty strong competition in any state. I'm familiar with TxDOT's web site, and it's a pretty good web site so I can usually find what I want, which is why I was able to find such detailed information.
If you want the Texas numbers, you can use the statewide planning map, but you have to zoom in to small areas to see them. It's easier to look at the PDF maps. On this page you can pick a year and then pick a district. I've noticed a few count points on the planning map that don't appear in the PDF maps; I don't know how common that is.
http://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/tpp/traffic_counts/
Indiana SR 166 has an AADT of 38 this highway just dead ends, so that's why
Quote from: 1 on March 19, 2018, 09:45:28 AM
Is there any use for NH 9A, 11C, 11D, 16A (both), 16B, 25B, 28A (northern), 101E, 103B, 110A, 110B, 115A, or 115B?
As someone who has frequently driven or ridden a bike on all of those...
Yes for 11C, 25B, 110A, and 115A
No for 9A, 11D, 16A (both), 16B, 28A (northern) 101E, 103B, 110B, 115B (also 115B may or may/not exist - that's for another thread)
This is sort of related to my question: https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/03/americas-loneliest-roads-are-gems-hidden-in-plain-sight/555779/?utm_source=SFFB
The lowest AADT on the interstate system (at least on the major interstates) is on I-95 on its northernmost stretches in Maine. By the time you reach Aroostock County neat the border, the AADT gets down into the 2000s.
I-25 in Wyoming is in the 17-1800s between Casper and a bit north of Kaycee. I-90 between Sheridan WY and Gillette WY is also just a bit below 2000.
I'm pretty sure that chunk of I-25 is the lowest on interstates in the country - even lower than I-15 in Montana (which has no less than a hair under 2000 in a couple places, even up by the border).
Quote from: silverback1065 on March 19, 2018, 12:06:50 PM
Indiana SR 166 has an AADT of 38 this highway just dead ends, so that's why
This useless highway is the biggest annoyance to me, because it causes the single biggest detour in my quest to photograph all the Indiana state routes. I basically have to sidetrack myself from Santa Claus all the way over to get it.
Quote from: paulthemapguy on March 20, 2018, 03:30:39 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on March 19, 2018, 12:06:50 PM
Indiana SR 166 has an AADT of 38 this highway just dead ends, so that's why
This useless highway is the biggest annoyance to me, because it causes the single biggest detour in my quest to photograph all the Indiana state routes. I basically have to sidetrack myself from Santa Claus all the way over to get it.
:-D SR 111 does the same thing just a few miles east
GA 122 west of Waycross, GA. Its more like a back road than a major highway as it gets very little use on it.
MN 1 west of MN 89 in Beltrami County only gets 45 cars a day. I was surprised that the MN 11 dead end east of Voyageurs NP still gets 300.
CO 3 in Durango. It's the former alignment of US 160/550 south and east of town, but now all it really does is service the residential areas on the east side of town--which the highway designation no longer reaches now that it's been routed to return to 160/550 on Santa Rita Dr south of town.
CO 11 near Julesburg (AADT 530). Connects to I-80 across the NE state line, but is a county road on the Nebraska side of the border. It's also less than a mile and a half in length.
Quote from: silverback1065 on March 20, 2018, 06:10:27 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on March 20, 2018, 03:30:39 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on March 19, 2018, 12:06:50 PM
Indiana SR 166 has an AADT of 38 this highway just dead ends, so that's why
This useless highway is the biggest annoyance to me, because it causes the single biggest detour in my quest to photograph all the Indiana state routes. I basically have to sidetrack myself from Santa Claus all the way over to get it.
:-D SR 111 does the same thing just a few miles east
I've hit both on my quest to clinch all the state highways. I'm surprised that 166 gets so little usage as there are a few businesses along the way and a town at the end.
TN-370 is a tiny little route that serves only to connect TN-144 to TN-61, which TN-131 already did in the first place. It's out in the middle of nowhere and everyone just takes 131 instead.
TN-1 randomly becomes signed in Sparta for a few miles before getting right back onto US 70. Lord knows who had that idea as the short route could just as easily have been numbered something else or been a bannered US 70.
TN-266 connects Lebanon to absolutely nowhere.
TN-334 in Alcoa is a tiny pointless connector between TN-333 and 335. It's like they slapped a state route sign on a 1 mile neighborhood road.
Quote from: roadguy2 on March 13, 2018, 10:13:38 PM
UT 174 is a little-used road that goes to the Intermountain power plant. UT 45 is a highway to nowhere. I have no idea why roads like these are kept as state routes.
Also, compared to other cities/metro areas, the state maintains a much larger proportion of the arterials and collectors in the Wasatch Front metro area. With only three exceptions, every exit of I-15 in Salt Lake County is to a state route. I'm not sure why the cities couldn't take over a lot of these routes.
A lot of the UT state highways serving state parks and institutions in the 281-320 number block are only given numbers because UDOT maintains the road. As an example, UT 312 begins at a local road and goes half a mile northwest to the boat ramp at Willard Bay. UT 299 is the drivers license test course in West Valley.
And there are other roads that have never been (or used to be) on the state system that would be make much better parts of the state highway system if you were to swap UT-42 or UT-45 for them. Re-extending UT-22 south to the UT-12/63 junction, re-extending UT-29 west to US-89 in Ephraim, and connecting UT-165 with UT-158 are all examples that come to mind.
I've long felt that the state parks and institutions series of routes with no discernable direction (parking lots, road segments, etc.) should be on a completely different system, like "Service Routes" or "Service Facilities." Actual roads like UT-290, UT-302, and UT-319 can stay, but routes like UT-299 or UT-320 should be something like Service Route or Facility H (or A9).
I have noticed that there seems to be a slight uptick in swaps and transfers in the last 5-10 years. In that time, we've had UT-212 returned in full to Washington City. UT-107 East of 3000 W in West Point has mostly been transferred to local control (I don't know why there's any remaining piece of 107, mind you). There's also UT-48 between what is now UT-209 and UT-154 Bangerter Highway) that was transferred to West Jordan City a couple years ago. There are also the complete transfer of UT-197 and partial transfer of UT-73 to Cedar Point and Lehi (leading to the odd segmented UT-73 for the time being). I feel that this trend will continue for some time, though no state route system changes have been made this year.
XT1710-02
Quote from: index on March 13, 2018, 02:46:16 PM
NC Highways 136 and 400 are both very short (400 being the shortest in the state) and serve very little, ending at a dead end. 136 serves some homes and I think a handful of businesses in Currituck County and is 1.36 miles long and ends at a boat ramp.
NC 400 is more useful but not that important, its existence is hardly known and it wouldn't be any different not existing. It serves the downtown area of Manteo and a festival park, ending at a dead end on a small island. I think this route's in the realm of 4,000-4,500 feet long.
NC 343 south of US 158 also serves some homes and a handful of businesses, and also ends at a dead end.
Also, we definitely have had a bunch of useless/short route threads in the past, I think they've primarily been about Interstate Highways. I don't remember seeing any one about state or federal highways, although I'm 100% sure they exist.
NC 136 used to be NC 3 until the route numbers were switched following Dale Earnhardt's death. That made a low primary route number have even a higher degree of uselessness.
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.7953422,-120.8924438,3a,75y,239.96h,90.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1semXc2ERKYDYcweXR0PNeZg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.7953422,-120.8924438,3a,75y,239.96h,90.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1semXc2ERKYDYcweXR0PNeZg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
California SR153 connects SR49 in Coloma to a historic monument. It ends at a parking lot because the only other road out is oneway.
Quote from: mrpablue on March 30, 2018, 01:28:24 PM
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.7953422,-120.8924438,3a,75y,239.96h,90.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1semXc2ERKYDYcweXR0PNeZg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.7953422,-120.8924438,3a,75y,239.96h,90.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1semXc2ERKYDYcweXR0PNeZg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
California SR153 connects SR49 in Coloma to a historic monument. It ends at a parking lot because the only other road out is oneway.
How is connecting CA 49 to part of the state park system unless? Hell the route is even signed:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4237/35408757141_3cfc00b810_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/VWX8SM)153CAa (https://flic.kr/p/VWX8SM) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr
Incidentally CA 153 isn't even the shortest state highway, it is just the shortest one that is signed.
M-143. Less than a mile long and was unsigned for years until signage was erected during a recent reconstruction
Quote from: silverback1065 on March 18, 2018, 10:37:19 PM
ok so this begs the question: what is the lowest AADT for any numbered highway in the US?
I would guess the aforementioned M-185 would have an AADT of somewhere between 0 and 1, though I don't know how often the ambulance and/or fire truck are called out. I doubt MDOT keeps data on it, in any case.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 01, 2018, 02:45:45 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on March 18, 2018, 10:37:19 PM
ok so this begs the question: what is the lowest AADT for any numbered highway in the US?
I would guess the aforementioned M-185 would have an AADT of somewhere between 0 and 1, though I don't know how often the ambulance and/or fire truck are called out. I doubt MDOT keeps data on it, in any case.
They state it as 1. Zoom in to it at: http://mdot.maps.arcgis.com/apps/Viewer/index.html?appid=18a4b2f2ba3b4e079e935f8835862c73
The northern segment of IN-71 in Benton and Newton counties in Indiana sees very little use...the highest AADT I could find for that segment of IN-71 was 264 near its northern terminus with US-24/US-52. The two largest communities on that stretch of IN-71 are Raub and Freeland Park, which are unincorporated communities with probably less than 200 residents combined.
Quote from: ftballfan on March 31, 2018, 10:55:45 PM
M-143. Less than a mile long and was unsigned for years until signage was erected during a recent reconstruction
I've clinched that highway so many times and every time I have it was without even trying. I wouldn't say it gets little or no use though as there are about 20,000 vehicles that use it every day. It use to be a part of M-43 but it's western terminus really doesn't make much sense to me, I've never been a fan of the state highways that end at a location rather than another highway and M-143 could have very easily went to US-127 or to the Capitol Loop.
Quote from: Aaron Camp on April 02, 2018, 12:00:19 PM
The northern segment of IN-71 in Benton and Newton counties in Indiana sees very little use...the highest AADT I could find for that segment of IN-71 was 264 near its northern terminus with US-24/US-52. The two largest communities on that stretch of IN-71 are Raub and Freeland Park, which are unincorporated communities with probably less than 200 residents combined.
Benton County is one of the least populated counties in Indiana. I drove that piece of 71 a few weeks ago, nothing out there, very zig zaggy
Quote from: silverback1065 on April 02, 2018, 01:05:12 PM
Quote from: Aaron Camp on April 02, 2018, 12:00:19 PM
The northern segment of IN-71 in Benton and Newton counties in Indiana sees very little use...the highest AADT I could find for that segment of IN-71 was 264 near its northern terminus with US-24/US-52. The two largest communities on that stretch of IN-71 are Raub and Freeland Park, which are unincorporated communities with probably less than 200 residents combined.
Benton County is one of the least populated counties in Indiana. I drove that piece of 71 a few weeks ago, nothing out there, very zig zaggy
Fourth from last, tiny Ohio County is the least populated and the smallest by land area as well.
Not exactly a highway but a number that is useless which is GA 300 south of Albany, GA which is completely coextensive with US 19 and its companion GA route GA 3. To have it signed with US 19 to the FL State Line is a waste of signage.
I believe it has something to do with that stretch of US 19 being the GA-FL Parkway which is also the name of independent GA 300 from Albany to its terminus at I-75 near Cordele. It was originally to be an interstate spur connecting I-75 to Tallahassee, but GA opted out of building it and instead created GA 300 to Albany and dualizing US 19 from Albany to the FL State line.
Texas 165
CO 16. 1.31 miles in length from I-25 east until it curves northward and BECOMES CO 21. If there are no plans to continue 16 eastward on Mesa Ridge Pkwy or no plans to build Powers Blvd (or some other potential CO 21 alignment) south of there, why not just give the whole segment ONE state highway designation?
https://goo.gl/maps/ggfXzYBonX92
NY 421. Dead-end spur to Horseshoe Lake off of NY 30 in the middle of the Adirondacks. 2015 AADT just off of NY 30 was 132, lowest on a state route or reference route in New York. I'm willing to bet most, if not all, of those vehicles were only on the westernmost third of the route, which services every building on the route and a waterfall.
Quote from: Mark68 on April 03, 2018, 12:26:12 PM
CO 16. 1.31 miles in length from I-25 east until it curves northward and BECOMES CO 21. If there are no plans to continue 16 eastward on Mesa Ridge Pkwy or no plans to build Powers Blvd (or some other potential CO 21 alignment) south of there, why not just give the whole segment ONE state highway designation?
https://goo.gl/maps/ggfXzYBonX92
Then CO 21 becomes CO 83 on the north end of Colorado Springs
Quote from: ftballfan on April 04, 2018, 10:07:19 AM
Quote from: Mark68 on April 03, 2018, 12:26:12 PM
CO 16. 1.31 miles in length from I-25 east until it curves northward and BECOMES CO 21. If there are no plans to continue 16 eastward on Mesa Ridge Pkwy or no plans to build Powers Blvd (or some other potential CO 21 alignment) south of there, why not just give the whole segment ONE state highway designation?
https://goo.gl/maps/ggfXzYBonX92
Then CO 21 becomes CO 83 on the north end of Colorado Springs
At least you have to turn to get from 21 to 83 or vice versa. Powers is eventually supposed to be completed as a freeway to I-25, so that will be a full interchange when that happens. CO 21 ends on the future on/off ramps to 83.
Quote from: cl94 on April 03, 2018, 03:32:17 PM
NY 421. Dead-end spur to Horseshoe Lake off of NY 30 in the middle of the Adirondacks. 2015 AADT just off of NY 30 was 132, lowest on a state route or reference route in New York. I'm willing to bet most, if not all, of those vehicles were only on the westernmost third of the route, which services every building on the route and a waterfall.
At least they have a dead end sign posted there.