Over the past year, I have had an unsuccessful attempt at getting new state highway makers for NJ. To me, its more than just a sign. I am a native New Jerseyan. I'm tired of NJ always being belittled by negative stereotypes and being hidden behind New York's and Philadelphia's huge shadows. I thought a new state route marker is a great step towards achieving some kind of state identity and personality.
I am, however, just a novice at this. I sent letters to the NJDOT explaining my position, but was told that it would be "too confusing" for motorists if the signs are redesigned. I actually think it has more to do with an election year....
but I am putting it out there. NJ needs to create a new route marker for the sake of statewide pride. Any ideas? If anyone on aaroads forum would like to design some examples, I would appreciate it. Also, if anyone has connections inside the NJDOT, perhaps you can take this issue a little further than I could.
Some designs that I have drawn up are:
-A tomato shape (NJ is nicknamed the Garden State. This sign would not only negate the stereotypes of "polluted NJ" but might also enrich the agricultural sector by making the Jersey tomato a statewide symbol)
-A 13 star circle (showcasing NJ's rich colonial history and contribution to the Revolutionary War
-The state outline (similar to Florida's sign)
-The state seal (similar to NY's sign)
-A Lightbulb (Thomas Edison heritage)
Perhaps the route number in front of the outline of a can of AquaNet? :spin:
Ok, couldn't resist. In all seriousness though, I think this is a great idea. I personally like the idea of incorporating the state outline. Not sure if you've seen this website or not, but it's the "Great International Highway Makeover" website, and there are suggested designs on here for all of the US states, and especially those that are using the dreaded circle. There are a few nice designs on here with an outline of New Jersey. You may have already seen this, but if not, it's another good resource.
Great International Highway Makeover
http://www.us-highways.com/newnj.htm (http://www.us-highways.com/newnj.htm)
I normally would be insulted by that AquaNet comment, but in this case, it's timely and plays right into my point. :clap: Thanks.
Quote from: papaT10932 on January 18, 2010, 03:59:27 PM
I normally would be insulted by that AquaNet comment, but in this case, it's timely and plays right into my point. :clap: Thanks.
I'm originally from Arkansas. Believe me, New Jersey has nothing on the shoeless, no-toothed jokes about my home.
"Laughing at ourselves is possible when we are able to see humanity as it is - a little lower than the angels and at times only slightly higher than the apes" - Tom Mullen
:sombrero:
Froggie had some ideas but I cannot offhand find where he posted his designs. Froggie, repost please?
Earlier in the Road-related Illustrations (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=575.msg47293#msg47293) thread...
Quote from: froggie on January 18, 2010, 08:51:00 PM
Earlier in the Road-related Illustrations (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=575.msg47293#msg47293) thread...
Heck, those would even look really good sans color. Anything beats the generic circle!
It's not the boring circle the bothers me. Its the fact that other states also use it. (Especially our next door neighbor, Delaware.) If I was ruler of the universe, my policy would be simple: 50 states = 50 DIFFERENT highway signs. If no other states used the default circle, I wouldn't object to NJ's sign as much as I do.
Quote from: papaT10932 on January 19, 2010, 12:01:08 AM
It's not the boring circle the bothers me. Its the fact that other states also use it. (Especially our next door neighbor, Delaware.) If I was ruler of the universe, my policy would be simple: 50 states = 50 DIFFERENT highway signs. If no other states used the default circle, I wouldn't object to NJ's sign as much as I do.
Well, the good news is that you have some recent precedent to support the idea that the movement away from a generic state route markers is possibly getting some traction. Both Oklahoma and South Carolina have moved away from the generic marker to a new route marker with the outline of the state in the background. And in the case of South Carolina, there's plenty of color there too. I'm not sure who or what got the ideas rolling for change in those states, but perhaps that's something that could help you in New Jersey as well?
I also hope you have some success, as NJ's plain circles are pretty dull.
And I agree with the hope that OK and SC are heralding a move away from the plain route markers and back to some with some character. I'd much rather see the older-style US shields make a return. And I'd love to see my state (OR) go back to the classic "eagle" shield. However, it's more likely you'd see some sort of background image, as that still leaves the entire sign available for the number. I also think the state name should be on the shield, especially if the state's outline isn't used.
Quote from: xonhulu on January 19, 2010, 01:30:47 AM
I also think the state name should be on the shield, especially if the state's outline isn't used.
I generally agree with you with one exception.
IMHO The Pennsylvania keystone is fine as it is. Adding "PA" or "Pennsylvania" to it would just clutter it up.
How about "PENNA" across the top? www.alpsroads.net/roads/summa/pa507.jpg
I think highway markers that are unique by themselves are fine the way there are. PA and NY shields, for example, could be left alone and most people would still recognize them as being from PA or NY. But for default circle signs, I think adding N.J., Del,, or Miss., for example, is a bare minimum addition to a circle, and it would at least differentiate them from all of the other "circle states."
Quote from: AlpsROADS on January 19, 2010, 06:55:49 PM
How about "PENNA" across the top? www.alpsroads.net/roads/summa/pa507.jpg
I could live with that. (at least if it was a cutout like that) But, my personal preference is still the bare keystone.
I just checked out some older Pennsylvania shields in the Gallery, and they didn't look half bad with "Penna" or "PA" on top.
I'm just annoyed with the plain shape shields we see everywhere these days. Seems to me there should be something on the shield besides the number. After all, we have no problem with the word "Interstate" on those shields; they function well as a distinctive design. U.S. Routes should also carry some description of the route type. I hate to say it, but that's one place where I have to say California still gets it right.
Ok, Ok folks. Let's stay on topic! :pan:
Any ideas on how to work with NJDOT? Does anyone have any connections to this fine organization??? Ctsignguy is having some success in Connecticut. Any ideas, ctsignguy? :nod:
well, i need to contact Jeff at ConnDOT now that the holidays are over and hopefully, things have settled back into a dull roar up there...
but i can say that your best bet would be to undertake a small expense and have some prototypes made up....preferably full-sized...and present them to NJDOT [personally to the head of their sign shop/traffic engineering. Based upon my experience with ConnDOT, it isnt enough to have either a general description, or even photos/pictures of what you are suggesting...a full-scale sign really makes an impression.
One other consideration. Given the current state of the economy, you would be best off with a fairly simple, yet unique, design that wouldn't be a hassle to fabricate, either as a silkscreened or laser-cut sign...based upon your ideas at the start of this thread, your best chance for success would probably be with the State seal. Your other suggestions might run afoul of MUTCD standards, or be difficult enough to fabricate to be ruled out...(although the light bulb idea is certainly different enough! Only issue there is a 3-di sign....)
Quick question, just out of curiosity: Is a change of this type soley made by the DOT or does it have to go through a legislative process with a governer's signature?
i think that depends upon each individual State.....
at the very least, expect lots of hearings about proposed changes
I still support the idea of the state outline, as shown on the makeover page. As shown below, this would support both 2- and 3-digit routes, and without multi-colors should be reasonable on production costs. The only thing I would change is to put a 'NJ' on the upper portion of the shield.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.us-highways.com%2Fhm3%2Fasnj495.jpg&hash=366a140df6185d81c1ecb915a708553e01133907)
Quote from: shoptb1 on January 20, 2010, 03:11:05 PM
I still support the idea of the state outline, as shown on the makeover page. As shown below, this would support both 2- and 3-digit routes, and without multi-colors should be reasonable on production costs. The only thing I would change is to put a 'NJ' on the upper portion of the shield.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.us-highways.com%2Fhm3%2Fasnj495.jpg&hash=366a140df6185d81c1ecb915a708553e01133907)
When you asked me if I have ever been to that website, the answer is yes. I actually designed that outline shield. Sorry for the Arial font though, its the best I have.
Also, I tried it with an NJ on the top portion of the sign, but it became to cluttered. If you go back on that site, the sign I made with the state seal was later revised with "New Jersey" written across the top. It looks much better that way.
Quote from: papaT10932 on January 20, 2010, 03:26:49 PM
When you asked me if I have ever been to that website, the answer is yes. I actually designed that outline shield. Sorry for the Arial font though, its the best I have.
Also, I tried it with an NJ on the top portion of the sign, but it became to cluttered. If you go back on that site, the sign I made with the state seal was later revised with "New Jersey" written across the top. It looks much better that way.
Good work, but I have to say that the state seal looks too much like a US-route shield. I think you run into the possibility of confusion there.
How's this FL/OK-inspired design?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.denexa.com%2Fforum_img%2Fsigns%2Fnj_shields.png&hash=754a1255f117fa29c6e0b3448ce4344712e81afd)
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 21, 2010, 07:27:16 AM
How's this FL/OK-inspired design?
Love it! Good work :)
very nice, Scott! I'd reduce the "NJ" in size a bit, and diminish the amount of state border present so it is further away from the number. That should give the number better visual separation from a distance, especially given the halation resulting from it being a black number on a white background.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 21, 2010, 07:27:16 AM
How's this FL/OK-inspired design?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.denexa.com%2Fforum_img%2Fsigns%2Fnj_shields.png&hash=754a1255f117fa29c6e0b3448ce4344712e81afd)
Those look great!!
Quote from: agentsteel53 on January 21, 2010, 09:00:20 AM
the other day I went and took photos of the last two known white overhead gantries with colored US shields in Florida: a 41 pair and a 231/98 set, and what a difference they make compared to standard black and white - easily identifiable from a distance, and provide a definite visual contrast against the white background, and they're aesthetically pleasing. What objection did the feds have to that??
The Feds or the Borg? With respect to signage, somedays they seem to be one and the same.
Resistance is futile, your US shields will be assimilated.
You probably want the smallest bounding box that fits around the numerals to take up >50% of the whole sign for easier legibility. The NJ design has the numerals a little on the small side. The numerals are the important part.
Could the shape of Delaware be mistaken for a "1" in poor seeing conditions in the Delaware shield design?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg685.imageshack.us%2Fimg685%2F5205%2Fnjshields.png&hash=ecad7557205c0ab3d935ca4563e3e74b2e848423)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg685.imageshack.us%2Fimg685%2F4472%2Fde273.png&hash=433f56a89e0b11e0b678877afcf25ebe42fedb25)
My favorite design for a "Garden State" route sign is the tomato. This design counters the stereotype of "toxic, polluted NJ". Also, it promotes local produce and agriculture by making the Jersey Tomato a statewide symbol. It is easy to read and shouldn't be too hard to manufacture. What do you all think?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ak-snc3%2Fhs189.snc3%2F19679_521814049018_71700498_31112490_6274967_n.jpg&hash=f38c217cae2d5924ee2214707cd35bc687a50394)
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 21, 2010, 07:27:16 AM
How's this FL/OK-inspired design?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.denexa.com%2Fforum_img%2Fsigns%2Fnj_shields.png&hash=754a1255f117fa29c6e0b3448ce4344712e81afd)
I like it!
Nice designs, all, except for the wider signs that would translate to 24 x 30 in the field.
Can't we just stay with square signs?
If I had the Photoshop know-how, I'd love to design a new Kentucky shield that still uses the circle, but turns it into an outline background of a basketball. ;-)
Quote from: shoptb1 on January 18, 2010, 03:46:12 PM
Perhaps the route number in front of the outline of a can of AquaNet? :spin:
Don't forget the bronzer!
The tomato types are priceless ;)
The problem with switching to new shields in NJ is that NJ has so many pesky overhead BGS's that require a huge effort and inconvenience to change. BUT, what if the circles on BGS's stay the same, and only the stand-alone signs change??
This is my idea. Redesign stand-alones to SEMI-CIRCLES, so that way they do not differ too much from the full circle shields on BGS's. Think of it as being "circle inspired." This would be the finished product:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ak-snc3%2Fhs237.snc3%2F22434_522427983688_71700498_31128229_4899157_n.jpg&hash=acbdbac003a71c4191e300511a6004367a7ad83d) (BGS shield) (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net%2Fhs217.snc3%2F22434_522427744168_71700498_31128225_4381235_n.jpg&hash=8a2bb343848bb079edcaf7fe6ec99c5825459475) (stand-alone shield)
To those who have been following this thread, I'm really interested to know your thoughts. I think this is a lot more reasonable a proposal for NJ to consider. I may pitch the idea to the DOT. New governer.... new hope?
Most people wouldn't associate the Statue of Liberty with New Jersey.
Not bad, but the Statue of Liberty is on New York soil and generally associated with New York City. However, it is not without precedent. Witness the logo of the Central Railroad of New Jersey:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2Fd%2Fd2%2FCNJ_logo.png&hash=c57df5fa95247a3002638f157a54788d98cc1683)
Yes, and keep in mind, New Jersey's national park quarter (coin), which is scheduled to release in a few years, will depict Gateway National Park- which includes the Statue of Liberty. (Although NY's state quarter also featured the SOL in 2001). New Jersey also offers a vanity plate with the statue of liberty on it. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.state.nj.us%2Fmvc%2Fimages%2Fplates%2Flibertystatepark.gif&hash=09b8dc88e6fda341320e26dfaa5acf93aabe703d)
But anyway, as far as the sign goes... the Statue of Liberty does not necessarily have to be used. Perhaps a Thomas Edison lightbulb... or Barnegat Lighthouse. The point I was trying to make was not having to replace BGSs. Is that a possibility or would that go against federal standards?
OK... I actually like this design better than the Statue of Liberty anyway. How about a sign that represents the "Garden State" by displaying the state flower (the common violet)?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ak-snc3%2Fhs494.snc3%2F26974_522429924798_71700498_31128280_4973063_n.jpg&hash=06b9dc3191c4697fe9c9c3db6e2a959b52099691)
I'd much rather it use the FHWA fonts at the top than Times New Roman (which is horribly overused).
Quote from: AARoads on January 21, 2010, 12:37:42 PMOff topic for this thread, but seeing that Delaware design I did in 1999 inspired me to update it in AI. I originally crafted that graphic in Paint!
If there was any state that should use a diamond for their shield, it should be Delaware.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 21, 2010, 07:27:16 AM
How's this FL/OK-inspired design?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.denexa.com%2Fforum_img%2Fsigns%2Fnj_shields.png&hash=754a1255f117fa29c6e0b3448ce4344712e81afd)
These are still my favorite. I really don't like the designs with the circles. Just sayin'.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 21, 2010, 07:27:16 AM
How's this FL/OK-inspired design?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.denexa.com%2Fforum_img%2Fsigns%2Fnj_shields.png&hash=754a1255f117fa29c6e0b3448ce4344712e81afd)
According to an old map I have from the 1920s, New Jersey used the state outline on their original markers. It had "NEW JERSEY" in the northern half and "STATE HIGHWAY" in the southern half, with the route number in black on a colored band according to the compass direction in the I-195 corridor.
NJ will not make a drastic switch (or any switch at all). IF they do switch to newer signs, I'm sure it would just be a small tweak from the default circle. I can live with that. Anything is better than the circle.
Plus, I think state outlines are overdone anyway.