When I say this, I mean locations where drivers, on a large scale, do the wrong thing, whether it be merging at the wrong point, or disturbing traffic flow, or even something more simple, like using a turn lane to go straight or pulling illegal u-turns.
Confession time: I've gotten myself into some close shaves at this location (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1391586,-77.5386741,3a,75y,324.81h,100.5t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ssd2fxuk7DjrZtoOOOaNXLQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) because, during afternoon rush, when the ramp to NY 590 North is notoriously congested, every single driver does the wrong thing here. About 2/3 do this (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1381541,-77.5367356,3a,75y,13.9h,90.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scadmxbexDzgdddX4JDeYGQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), and I mean, literally, make a 90 degree turn in the direction you're looking and start lining up back onto the on-ramp, hundreds of feet before it even joins the mainline. Everyone else whizzes by at speed and then brakes at the last second to LOOK for a gap in traffic that does not exist, idiotically slowing down the southbound lane, and making delays even worse. I have never (when there's congestion) seen a vehicle do the right thing and merge at the actual merge point.
Every time I personally try to merge at the merge point, I get traffic swarming around me on both sides and trying to cut in front. This irks me to no end (and yesterday, I was so mad that I actually passed a Nissan Altima on the shoulder). I don't know what to do to diffuse this awful situation without doing the wrong thing myself, and I can't accept that as a solution.
Sounds to me like two things are in order:
- NYSP need to get their act in gear
- Find an alternative route, or travel at a different time. If it's a commute, perhaps stick around at the workplace for 15-20 minutes?
Quote- Find an alternative route, or travel at a different time. If it's a commute, perhaps stick around at the workplace for 15-20 minutes?
My commute doesn't even involve that ramp - I intentionally take that route, on occasion, so I can analyze traffic flow and work on figuring out a good solution to the mess that exists.
Any freeway in Kentucky, if the car has an Ohio license plate, because of Buckeyes' tendencies to drive in the left lane.
That happens on at least one merge on I-87 northbound when it's congested, mainly at exits 2 and 4. Fortunately, those aren't weaves, so using the acceleration lane as intended and then finding a gap actually works (most of the time, anyways).
The I-87/I-90 interchange (exit 1) is an interesting case. On the ramps between the Northway and Free 90, the left lane is usually the slow lane, with the right lane as the fast lane. This is because of lane drops, exit only lanes, and a merge, leaving most people scared to use the right lane. It actually impedes flow when the occasional person does the right thing and moves right if they're the slow car.
At every left turn, turning into the right lane of a two-lane road instead of the left. CT is a "closest lane" state. However, there is no time requirement to stay in the closest lane, but you need to land there and then move over.
4 Way Stops = 4 Way Yields, in whatever 'established' order is occurring.
Wide single lane off-ramps become dual lane off-ramps.
Passing a left turning vehicle on the shoulder. Yet, roads have been designed to include wider shoulders at points where people may turn left specifically so people can pass on the shoulder, even though it's illegal.
Quote from: webny99 on April 12, 2018, 09:03:36 AM
When I say this, I mean locations where drivers, on a large scale, do the wrong thing, whether it be merging at the wrong point, or disturbing traffic flow, or even something more simple, like using a turn lane to go straight or pulling illegal u-turns.
Confession time: I've gotten myself into some close shaves at this location (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1391586,-77.5386741,3a,75y,324.81h,100.5t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ssd2fxuk7DjrZtoOOOaNXLQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) because, during afternoon rush, when the ramp to NY 590 North is notoriously congested, every single driver does the wrong thing here. About 2/3 do this (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1381541,-77.5367356,3a,75y,13.9h,90.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scadmxbexDzgdddX4JDeYGQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), and I mean, literally, make a 90 degree turn in the direction you're looking and start lining up back onto the on-ramp, hundreds of feet before it even joins the mainline. Everyone else whizzes by at speed and then brakes at the last second to LOOK for a gap in traffic that does not exist, idiotically slowing down the southbound lane, and making delays even worse. I have never (when there's congestion) seen a vehicle do the right thing and merge at the actual merge point.
Every time I personally try to merge at the merge point, I get traffic swarming around me on both sides and trying to cut in front. This irks me to no end (and yesterday, I was so mad that I actually passed a Nissan Altima on the shoulder and proceeded to put my car in reverse* for a few seconds to get him sweating**). I don't know what to do to diffuse this awful situation without doing the wrong thing myself by default, and I can't accept that as a solution.
*In a completely stopped line of traffic, of course.
**Fearing he might follow me, I got off at Blossom Road, and sure enough, so did he - he pulled up next to me, rolled his window down, screamed some stuff, and threw a foreign object at my car. Fortunately, I hit the gas for the on-ramp and he turned down Blossom.
Well, the absolute worst thing you can do is engage the issue. And if you're driving on the shoulder and backing up on the highway, you're now doing worse than everyone else. You probably even had someone calling 911 reporting your tag number. Don't get angry with others and do stupid shit like what you did...it can only end poorly for you.
BTW, many people have cameras in their cars. Stuff like that ends up on the internet all the time.
The best thing you can do in this point - just do what everyone else does. Yes, maybe it's not technically correct. But unless you want to tell me you were driving the speed limit or under prior to this point, you can't claim innocence that everyone else is doing wrong when you were doing wrong yourself.
Quote from: froggie on April 12, 2018, 09:13:38 AM
Sounds to me like two things are in order:
- NYSP need to get their act in gear
The problem is larger than what the NYSP can deal with. The ramp is congested to begin with. People are just pulling off earlier than they should be. And looking at that shoulder, it looks quite narrow, so there's really no room to stop someone.
Here's another thing - at least in NJ, someone told me they were complaining to a cop about a similar issue. The cop asked if there were hashmarks. Apparently, if the road is lined with just shoulder lines, the cops have been told it's a non-ticketable offence if nothing happens. Now, I know, there's several things technically wrong with driving in that area on the wrong side of the line. But when it comes down to it, there's bigger fish to fry.
Rush hour sucks. A lot of traffic sucks. The cops have been told don't press it. They are needed for other things more important than dealing with traffic trying to merge off a highway.
Drivers love to wait until approximately here (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.8006931,-84.2804753,3a,75y,214.95h,87.84t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbyLzfjErGloHlpWu4gA83A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) to try to get into the left turn lanes for this light, despite the lane beginning a solid 250 yards behind the camera. By this point, both turn lanes are usually full (though they weren't farther back), resulting in this person blocking the leftmost through lane (which I am inevitably in because I'm planning to turn left at the light immediately after this one).
During rush hour when the normal ramp from WB I-184 to I-84 is backed up, it's not uncommon to see drivers do this, staying in the less congested right lane (headed for I-84 EB) then cutting over into the onramp coming from Franklin Rd to get to another I-84 WB ramp, saving like, 30 seconds maybe? Never seen an accident, but they do it in thick traffic at high speeds, it's an accident waiting to happen. Worse, sometimes people decide to do this last minute and drive over the gore point in front of the Exit 0 sign, then cut all the way over!
(https://i.imgur.com/jC3IrU2.png)
Just down the road, when traffic is slow, people feel the need to merge over as soon as it's physically possible. The left lane from the ramp does not end, the right one is ending soon, and the middle one ends a mile down the road. That middle lane everybody gets out of it as soon as possible, making the bottleneck at the actual merge in the picture much worse. I always use the middle lane either until a good gap shows up later, or until it ends (and I zipper merge in).
(https://i.imgur.com/XUUMggZ.png)
The whole "merging before necessary and sometimes before it's legal" thing is extremely common in the Boise area, really. I go out of my way to avoid it.
Vehicles cut across this solid white line around here all the time, even though signage tells them not to do it.
Northbound Dan Ryan entrance from 18th Street (https://goo.gl/maps/PKyVnaXqSrk)
Signage on ramp (https://goo.gl/maps/PKyVnaXqSrk)
Second sign on ramp (https://goo.gl/maps/3mk6PKBg3xy)
Pretty much all of NE Illinois and NW Indiana qualify, but I'll try to stick to the more egregious examples:
-I-57 northbound off ramp at 127th. NOTHING here indicates a double left, yet people turn left from the middle lane all the time.
-I-57 northbound off ramp at 119th. Opposite problem. Clearly signed as a double left, but cars from the far left lane think they can turn into either lane.
-Double lefts in general. Even though there is a dotted line to follow 90% of the time, people ignore it, usually causing the outside lane to not give the inside lane enough room. I won't even get in the inside lane of those anymore.
-Don't assume a stopped at a light vehicle in a line of traffic is going to let you in when you're turning out of the gas station. I can't believe how many people just bulldoze their way into traffic with this assumption.
-If a lane ends, the traffic in said lane needs to signal their way over. Most of the time, they just cut off the drivers in the proper lane. The same applies to merging.
Y muchos mas...
Nolan Ryan Expwy (which is anything but), heading north across a frontage road to an onramp onto eastbound I-30 after a baseball game. There are two northbound lanes. Above the left lane is an arrow pointing straight. Above the right is an arrow pointing right. Confusingly enough, the onramp crosses the I-30 frontage road and immediately turns right to merge onto I-30.
It is common to see people in the right lane, who should be turning right onto the frontage road, go through the intersection to get onto the I-30 onramp. It has become almost as common for people in the left lane, who should be crossing the intersection to the onramp, to turn right onto the frontage road. Thankfully, I have yet to see both happen simultaneously.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 12, 2018, 01:23:35 PM
Well, the absolute worst thing you can do is engage the issue. And if you're driving on the shoulder and backing up on the highway, you're now doing worse than everyone else. You probably even had someone calling 911 reporting your tag number. Don't get angry with others and do stupid shit like what you did...it can only end poorly for you.
Well, you're right, of course. As a general rule I'm fairly benign, but get the right set of circumstances and I completely fly of the handle. Fortunately, it doesn't happen often and it takes a lot. Now, if someone called 911... what would happen? Nothing, more than likely, and certainly not short-term, to my knowledge.
QuoteThe best thing you can do in this point - just do what everyone else does. Yes, maybe it's not technically correct. But unless you want to tell me you were driving the speed limit or under prior to this point, you can't claim innocence that everyone else is doing wrong when you were doing wrong yourself.
There are no established standards for speed... everyone has their own preference, and its doesn't matter if someone's going 55 and someone's going 80. There ARE, however, standards for merges; and when the three cars in front of you all do something different, you have a problem.
QuoteQuote from: froggie on April 12, 2018, 09:13:38 AM
Sounds to me like two things are in order:
- NYSP need to get their act in gear
The problem is larger than what the NYSP can deal with. The ramp is congested to begin with. People are just pulling off earlier than they should be. And looking at that shoulder, it looks quite narrow, so there's really no room to stop someone.
Interesting you say that, because accidents (mostly rear-end jobs, for obvious reasons) happen quite frequently in this area. There is barely enough room for a car on the shoulder - but everyone usually moves left anyways, making the scene the new chokepoint, such that the late mergers save
way more time when this happens (because everybody else has three merges to their one).
I agree, though, that it's not really solvable by enforcement... and police presence downstream would, ironically, probably slow things up, creating a new chokepoint and eliminating the issue :-D
This particular backup is actually more a problem with the far end - the weave merging onto 590. If everyone accelerated properly and merged at speed as they should, there wouldn't be backups. Sheer volume, while certainly a factor, isn't the problem so much as the debilitating double-weave. And knowing someone upstream needlessly braked and caused the whole mess doesn't do wonders for one's spirits...
Twin Cities:
-Double white line separating the I-94 WB and I-94 EB ramp splits from eastbound I-394, heavily violated.
-Double white line at the end of the ramp from NB I-35W to WB I-94, designed to keep traffic from pouring onto mainline 94 too quickly. Problem is that this forms an exit only lane to Hennepin Avenue, so idiots constantly violate it instead of getting up to speed and merging leading to major headaches on westbound 94 (of course, the tunnel beyond the Hennepin exit does not help).
-General idiots crossing double whites on the MnPASS lanes.
-Idiots getting off 169 gunning across three lanes to get to the US 212 "second chance" ramp from westbound MN 62 without any regard for their surroundings.
Every bus and bike lane in Seattle is routinely used by cars for parking or passing, despite signage saying it isn't allowed.
Observe one bus lane:
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3836/33402981532_6c67384e44_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/STH1EG)
Howell Street bus lanes (https://flic.kr/p/STH1EG) by SounderBruce (https://www.flickr.com/photos/sounderbruce/), on Flickr
The signs are quite clear:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_radqUVYAAgG4D.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_KWb0kUIAAvL-m.jpg)
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on April 12, 2018, 12:58:23 PM
At every left turn, turning into the right lane of a two-lane road instead of the left. CT is a "closest lane" state. However, there is no time requirement to stay in the closest lane, but you need to land there and then move over.
I see this all the time pretty much everywhere, and it drives me crazy too. I know for one I'd have a lot less stress if other people were to actually turn properly.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394-Double white line at the end of the ramp from NB I-35W to WB I-94, designed to keep traffic from pouring onto mainline 94 too quickly. Problem is that this forms an exit only lane to Hennepin Avenue, so idiots constantly violate it instead of getting up to speed and merging leading to major headaches on westbound 94 (of course, the tunnel beyond the Hennepin exit does not help).
This one, at least, will be addressed in the now-underway 35W rebuild.
Quote from: webny99 on April 12, 2018, 09:03:36 AM
When I say this, I mean locations where drivers, on a large scale, do the wrong thing, whether it be merging at the wrong point, or disturbing traffic flow, or even something more simple, like using a turn lane to go straight or pulling illegal u-turns.
Confession time: I've gotten myself into some close shaves at this location (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1391586,-77.5386741,3a,75y,324.81h,100.5t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ssd2fxuk7DjrZtoOOOaNXLQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) because, during afternoon rush, when the ramp to NY 590 North is notoriously congested, every single driver does the wrong thing here. About 2/3 do this (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1381541,-77.5367356,3a,75y,13.9h,90.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scadmxbexDzgdddX4JDeYGQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), and I mean, literally, make a 90 degree turn in the direction you're looking and start lining up back onto the on-ramp, hundreds of feet before it even joins the mainline. Everyone else whizzes by at speed and then brakes at the last second to LOOK for a gap in traffic that does not exist, idiotically slowing down the southbound lane, and making delays even worse. I have never (when there's congestion) seen a vehicle do the right thing and merge at the actual merge point.
Every time I personally try to merge at the merge point, I get traffic swarming around me on both sides and trying to cut in front. This irks me to no end (and yesterday, I was so mad that I actually passed a Nissan Altima on the shoulder and proceeded to put my car in reverse* for a few seconds to get him sweating**). I don't know what to do to diffuse this awful situation without doing the wrong thing myself by default, and I can't accept that as a solution.
*In a completely stopped line of traffic, of course.
**Fearing he might follow me, I got off at Blossom Road, and sure enough, so did he - he pulled up next to me, rolled his window down, screamed some stuff, and threw a foreign object at my car. Fortunately, I hit the gas for the on-ramp and he turned down Blossom.
Yes so sick of budging, and idiots who let them in are the biggest part of the problem. If the line is already full and stopped, you need to get in at the end.
Nah. Utilize the full capacity of the road and merge at the real merge point: Where the lane ends.
Quote from: Bruce on April 13, 2018, 03:16:38 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_radqUVYAAgG4D.jpg)
Is it just me, or does that sign look like the lane is reserved for Star Wars stormtroopers only? :-D :rofl:
Quote from: hbelkins on April 13, 2018, 10:30:39 AM
Quote from: Bruce on April 13, 2018, 03:16:38 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_radqUVYAAgG4D.jpg)
Is it just me, or does that sign look like the lane is reserved for Star Wars stormtroopers only? :-D :rofl:
I saw two eyes and a nose/mouth, but I'm not that familiar with Star Wars.
Quote from: Bruce on April 13, 2018, 03:16:38 AM
The signs are quite clear:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_radqUVYAAgG4D.jpg)
Maybe the problem is there's too many damn signs!
Golden, CO - at the western end on C-470, many cars do a U-turn at the the signal (at US 6) to return to C-470 eastbound. This is probably because they missed the ramp for I-70 west because they were in the wrong lane.
The fact that people use this lane for left turns has always bothered me because traffic going from from C-470 west to US 6 west should just use the flyover ramp. That left turn lane really serves no purpose.
Another thing drivers do wrong at this intersection - cars going south on Johnson Blvd blow through the red light at the at-grade railroad crossing and sit at the second light at US 6.
Quote from: doorknob60 on April 12, 2018, 05:14:48 PM
During rush hour when the normal ramp from WB I-184 to I-84 is backed up, it's not uncommon to see drivers do this, staying in the less congested right lane (headed for I-84 EB) then cutting over into the onramp coming from Franklin Rd to get to another I-84 WB ramp, saving like, 30 seconds maybe? Never seen an accident, but they do it in thick traffic at high speeds, it's an accident waiting to happen. Worse, sometimes people decide to do this last minute and drive over the gore point in front of the Exit 0 sign, then cut all the way over!
(https://i.imgur.com/jC3IrU2.png)
Just down the road, when traffic is slow, people feel the need to merge over as soon as it's physically possible. The left lane from the ramp does not end, the right one is ending soon, and the middle one ends a mile down the road. That middle lane everybody gets out of it as soon as possible, making the bottleneck at the actual merge in the picture much worse. I always use the middle lane either until a good gap shows up later, or until it ends (and I zipper merge in).
(https://i.imgur.com/XUUMggZ.png)
The whole "merging before necessary and sometimes before it's legal" thing is extremely common in the Boise area, really. I go out of my way to avoid it.
What is that interchange? It looks like I-84 exits to itself.
I think around here it's the roundabouts, traffic circles, rotaries or whatever you want to call them. They don't have a lot of them in Michigan at least in my part of Michigan so it seems like a lot of people don't know how to use them. I've driven in New York and other states that have them and are pretty use to knowing how to use them.
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 13, 2018, 02:06:54 PM
Quote from: doorknob60 on April 12, 2018, 05:14:48 PM
During rush hour when the normal ramp from WB I-184 to I-84 is backed up, it's not uncommon to see drivers do this, staying in the less congested right lane (headed for I-84 EB) then cutting over into the onramp coming from Franklin Rd to get to another I-84 WB ramp, saving like, 30 seconds maybe? Never seen an accident, but they do it in thick traffic at high speeds, it's an accident waiting to happen. Worse, sometimes people decide to do this last minute and drive over the gore point in front of the Exit 0 sign, then cut all the way over!
(https://i.imgur.com/jC3IrU2.png)
Just down the road, when traffic is slow, people feel the need to merge over as soon as it's physically possible. The left lane from the ramp does not end, the right one is ending soon, and the middle one ends a mile down the road. That middle lane everybody gets out of it as soon as possible, making the bottleneck at the actual merge in the picture much worse. I always use the middle lane either until a good gap shows up later, or until it ends (and I zipper merge in).
(https://i.imgur.com/XUUMggZ.png)
The whole "merging before necessary and sometimes before it's legal" thing is extremely common in the Boise area, really. I go out of my way to avoid it.
What is that interchange? It looks like I-84 exits to itself.
Western terminus of I-
184 in Boise, ID, where it intersects with I-84.
Quote from: doorknob60 on April 13, 2018, 02:09:56 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 13, 2018, 02:06:54 PM
Quote from: doorknob60 on April 12, 2018, 05:14:48 PM
During rush hour when the normal ramp from WB I-184 to I-84 is backed up, it's not uncommon to see drivers do this, staying in the less congested right lane (headed for I-84 EB) then cutting over into the onramp coming from Franklin Rd to get to another I-84 WB ramp, saving like, 30 seconds maybe? Never seen an accident, but they do it in thick traffic at high speeds, it's an accident waiting to happen. Worse, sometimes people decide to do this last minute and drive over the gore point in front of the Exit 0 sign, then cut all the way over!
(https://i.imgur.com/jC3IrU2.png)
Just down the road, when traffic is slow, people feel the need to merge over as soon as it's physically possible. The left lane from the ramp does not end, the right one is ending soon, and the middle one ends a mile down the road. That middle lane everybody gets out of it as soon as possible, making the bottleneck at the actual merge in the picture much worse. I always use the middle lane either until a good gap shows up later, or until it ends (and I zipper merge in).
(https://i.imgur.com/XUUMggZ.png)
The whole "merging before necessary and sometimes before it's legal" thing is extremely common in the Boise area, really. I go out of my way to avoid it.
What is that interchange? It looks like I-84 exits to itself.
Western terminus of I-184 in Boise, ID, where it intersects with I-84.
Oh ok I gotcha I didn't notice I-184 being there. Is there any reason for the double exits though?
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 13, 2018, 02:11:49 PM
Quote from: doorknob60 on April 13, 2018, 02:09:56 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 13, 2018, 02:06:54 PM
Quote from: doorknob60 on April 12, 2018, 05:14:48 PM
(snip)
What is that interchange? It looks like I-84 exits to itself.
Western terminus of I-184 in Boise, ID, where it intersects with I-84.
Oh ok I gotcha I didn't notice I-184 being there. Is there any reason for the double exits though?
The exit on the right is for traffic coming up from the Franklin Rd. onramp. Here's the view coming up that. The left lane of the onramp will take you over the flyover to I-84 EB, and the right lane takes you on that "second exit" to I-84 WB. Works pretty well actually.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FAdp0LhZ.png&hash=17f2e462722cb74e0dcd9ea0a4602753f49cf04a)
Quote from: hbelkins on April 13, 2018, 10:30:39 AM
Quote from: Bruce on April 13, 2018, 03:16:38 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_radqUVYAAgG4D.jpg)
Is it just me, or does that sign look like the lane is reserved for Star Wars stormtroopers only? :-D :rofl:
It actually looks more like Jabba the Hutt in my opinion (also from Star Wars).
My question is how big of a vehicle will he need to drive in order to fit in it (probably much bigger than an actual bus).
:bigass: :rofl:
Quote from: Bruce on April 13, 2018, 03:16:38 AM
Howell Street bus lanes (https://flic.kr/p/STH1EG) by SounderBruce (https://www.flickr.com/photos/sounderbruce/), on Flickr
Is there camera enforcement? Bus lanes don't work
anywhere without actual camera enforcement. If drivers know they'll always get away with it, they'll always do it.
I just drove to Detroit and back and while I was in Detroit it was during the peak of the afternoon rush hour. The biggest thing that got to me was left lane camping, I was in the center lane behind a white van and proceeded to move over to the left lane to pass the white van, while I'm in the left lane there is a Jeep ahead of me doing about 68 mph after I had passed the van but didn't have enough room to get back over, so the van re-passes me and at this point I'm fuming at the Jeep, I had to get all the way over to the right lane, pass the van again, get back in the center lane and what I did to the Jeep I probably shouldn't of but I didn't care and nothing happened after this but I flicked the driver of the Jeep off. The biggest thing is people don't use common sense when they are on an Interstate highway, they think the left lane is a travel lane and they have ever right to go their pokey speed in the left lane. I have news for them, that don't fly around here. Don't want to travel at 80 mph? Then stay out of the left lane in Michigan. Just a vent pretty much.
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 13, 2018, 08:30:41 PM
I just drove to Detroit and back and while I was in Detroit it was during the peak of the afternoon rush hour. The biggest thing that got to me was left lane camping, I was in the center lane behind a white van and proceeded to move over to the left lane to pass the white van, while I'm in the left lane there is a Jeep ahead of me doing about 68 mph after I had passed the van but didn't have enough room to get back over, so the van re-passes me and at this point I'm fuming at the Jeep, I had to get all the way over to the right lane, pass the van again, get back in the center lane and what I did to the Jeep I probably shouldn't of but I didn't care and nothing happened after this but I flicked the driver of the Jeep off. The biggest thing is people don't use common sense when they are on an Interstate highway, they think the left lane is a travel lane and they have ever right to go their pokey speed in the left lane. I have news for them, that don't fly around here. Don't want to travel at 80 mph? Then stay out of the left lane in Michigan. Just a vent pretty much.
I'm driven even more crazy by all of the people who won't stay in the right lane literally no matter what. If on a 3 lane highway I pull into the center lane to allow entering traffic to merge and pass them, there is always people around here who immediately feel they need to get out of the right lane, even if nobody at all is in front of them, and they often do it directly in front of other vehicles, so they're forced into the left lane for no friggin reason. The right lane is a travel lane, the center lane is to pass right lane traffic, and the left lane is to pass center lane traffic. I don't get why people are unaware that they can use the right lane to go through when no one is in front of them.
Quote from: UCFKnights on April 13, 2018, 11:40:39 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 13, 2018, 08:30:41 PM
I just drove to Detroit and back and while I was in Detroit it was during the peak of the afternoon rush hour. The biggest thing that got to me was left lane camping, I was in the center lane behind a white van and proceeded to move over to the left lane to pass the white van, while I'm in the left lane there is a Jeep ahead of me doing about 68 mph after I had passed the van but didn't have enough room to get back over, so the van re-passes me and at this point I'm fuming at the Jeep, I had to get all the way over to the right lane, pass the van again, get back in the center lane and what I did to the Jeep I probably shouldn't of but I didn't care and nothing happened after this but I flicked the driver of the Jeep off. The biggest thing is people don't use common sense when they are on an Interstate highway, they think the left lane is a travel lane and they have ever right to go their pokey speed in the left lane. I have news for them, that don't fly around here. Don't want to travel at 80 mph? Then stay out of the left lane in Michigan. Just a vent pretty much.
I'm driven even more crazy by all of the people who won't stay in the right lane literally no matter what. If on a 3 lane highway I pull into the center lane to allow entering traffic to merge and pass them, there is always people around here who immediately feel they need to get out of the right lane, even if nobody at all is in front of them, and they often do it directly in front of other vehicles, so they're forced into the left lane for no friggin reason. The right lane is a travel lane, the center lane is to pass right lane traffic, and the left lane is to pass center lane traffic. I don't get why people are unaware that they can use the right lane to go through when no one is in front of them.
Usually when I get on unless someone has riled me up already I drive 70 mph in the right lane, I only get over to pass anyone that's doing under 70 and then bump it up to 75 in the center lanes (I-75 is eight lanes for 23 miles between Saginaw and Flint) and then if I have to get over even further I bump it up to 80 in the left lane and I'll go faster if I have to get around someone. But usually if I'm at 80 and I feel fine driving that speed I'll keep in the left lane and keep passing everyone in the other lanes. But you get down around Detroit and people get on the highway and don't have a clue on how to drive on the highway it gets annoying. The worst is at the curves at Big Beaver and Rochester Roads they are 2 miles apart and I-75 runs east and west in between the curves and the suggested speed is 55, you'll have people slowing down to about 40 mph around them backing traffic up and people staying in the left lane dropping the speed. I-75 is actually pretty obsolete especially between the Rochester Curve and 8 Mile and has a 50 mph curve just south of 9 Mile. MDOT is rebuilding I-75 and adding another lane I believe which is much needed but they did the first part of that project last summer and only have six lanes in the stretch they did last summer so I'm hoping they add a fourth lane in this stretch. It's just too busy of a highway to only have six lanes just outside one of the largest cities in the country which I believe is now down to about 23rd or so, can't believe Detroit is out of the top 20.
Heh, if I tried to answer this thread I'd be up all weekend and I'd still be typing tomorrow night. :angry:
Quote from: 1995hoo on April 14, 2018, 01:33:20 PM
Heh, if I tried to answer this thread I'd be up all weekend and I'd still be typing tomorrow night. :angry:
Well, start with a bang ;-)
That's what I did in the OP... all the minor stuff can wait!
I-280 in San Jose between US 101 and I-880 -- in both directions. Squeeze merges, arbitrary lane drops, several ramps in a very short distance -- it's as if whomever was responsible for the road's design almost deliberately dares drivers to make bad decisions -- and guess what -- they do just that. Scooting across 4-5 lanes almost diagonally because one knows that's the only way to make it through the next freeway junction is commonplace, as is cutting off adjacent-lane drivers when a lane heads off and down a ramp. It's been that way since the late '70's when it was completed; it's as if the engineers tried to provide both ample local access as well as a through conduit, and utterly failed to include safety considerations.
I-35 SB exit 106 in Goldsby, Oklahoma. The right turn lane from the ramp forms a new lane on SH-9 WB. There's no need to stop there, so there's a permanent green arrow. People stop anyway. It's infuriating.
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 13, 2018, 02:11:49 PM
Quote from: doorknob60 on April 13, 2018, 02:09:56 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 13, 2018, 02:06:54 PM
Quote from: doorknob60 on April 12, 2018, 05:14:48 PM
During rush hour when the normal ramp from WB I-184 to I-84 is backed up, it's not uncommon to see drivers do this, staying in the less congested right lane (headed for I-84 EB) then cutting over into the onramp coming from Franklin Rd to get to another I-84 WB ramp, saving like, 30 seconds maybe? Never seen an accident, but they do it in thick traffic at high speeds, it's an accident waiting to happen. Worse, sometimes people decide to do this last minute and drive over the gore point in front of the Exit 0 sign, then cut all the way over!
(https://i.imgur.com/jC3IrU2.png)
Just down the road, when traffic is slow, people feel the need to merge over as soon as it's physically possible. The left lane from the ramp does not end, the right one is ending soon, and the middle one ends a mile down the road. That middle lane everybody gets out of it as soon as possible, making the bottleneck at the actual merge in the picture much worse. I always use the middle lane either until a good gap shows up later, or until it ends (and I zipper merge in).
(https://i.imgur.com/XUUMggZ.png)
The whole "merging before necessary and sometimes before it's legal" thing is extremely common in the Boise area, really. I go out of my way to avoid it.
What is that interchange? It looks like I-84 exits to itself.
Western terminus of I-184 in Boise, ID, where it intersects with I-84.
Oh ok I gotcha I didn't notice I-184 being there. Is there any reason for the double exits though?
Ramp braiding to minimize weaving to/from Franklin Rd (http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/43.5998/-116.2846)
see this everywhere frequently:
two lane street with adjacent parking lane and a traffic light at intersection with another 2 lane street, if no cars are parked near light, it becomes the right turn lane even though unmarked as such and a sideswipe risk for folks in the actual correct lane doing it correctly.
There's a drive I do occasionally with four places like this in a row. First, there's a zipper merge, but many drivers do not understand the whole "take turns" thing.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4666/39429587805_04a839d2f7_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/235fWKp)
Then there's this intersection. Despite the large "no stop required" sign, people still stop.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4618/38895010204_8425080b32_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/22g26sd)
And then there are two lights with "no turn on red" signs, where many drivers still turn right on red:
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/817/40238052504_47803d0474_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/24iGx8W)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4746/24735593837_9a269d50fa_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/DFNogP)
US-131 through downtown Grand Rapids. There are solid white lines between the Wealthy St and Pearl St exits, yet people still change lanes
I-93 north in Massachusetts: Breakdown lane open from 3-7 PM. NOT 2:50 PM. Occasionally someone will drive in it at 1 PM or some time that isn't even borderline. Also, the breakdown lane is not an exit lane when it's not from 3-7 PM; I have seen a ½ mile line of cars waiting to get onto I-495 north.
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on April 13, 2018, 08:21:08 PM
Quote from: Bruce on April 13, 2018, 03:16:38 AM
Howell Street bus lanes (https://flic.kr/p/STH1EG) by SounderBruce (https://www.flickr.com/photos/sounderbruce/), on Flickr
Is there camera enforcement? Bus lanes don't work anywhere without actual camera enforcement. If drivers know they'll always get away with it, they'll always do it.
Eh, can't say I ever really see people riding in the bus lanes in Orlando. The signage and road markings make it clear and they have different signals (the white lines to indicate). That digital bus only sign isn't clear enough its indicating that lane its over is only for buses (needs an arrow), and its kind of hard to tell its a bus in the picture (probably should have text too). Plus, cars seemingly need to go into the bus lanes to switch lanes all the time, and its not always easy for people to switch multiple lanes at once. With all of these problems, its really easy to see why cars ride in the bus lane.
Quote from: 1 on April 15, 2018, 05:08:33 PM
Also, the breakdown lane is not an exit lane when it's not from 3-7 PM; I have seen a ½ mile line of cars waiting to get onto I-495 north.
It may be illegal; but I'd argue that it's not only safer, but better for the flow the thru traffic for cars wishing to access 495 to queue on the shoulder. A long line of stopped cars in the right lane while the other two are moving is never safe.
Quote from: 1 on April 15, 2018, 05:08:33 PM
Occasionally someone will drive in it at 1 PM or some time that isn't even borderline. Also, the breakdown lane is not an exit lane when it's not from 3-7 PM; I have seen a ½ mile line of cars waiting to get onto I-495 north.
The 1pm rider is the one usually out there during the rush hour, went to lunch, and completely forgets they're not supposed to be in that lane midday.
The sitting on a shoulder thing...that's a tough one. Yeah it's illegal, and especially if you're not expecting it you wind up slowing down and merging at the last second, but overall it's probably the better option.
The exit to Canyon Road from WA-512 eastbound near Tacoma, WA frequently becomes a double lane exit, despite the ramp only being one lane until about halfway up, and the exit just being a normal optional off-ramp (no exit only). There's a couple of peak-use shoulder driving areas in WA, but this isn't one of them.
Common behavior, as I captured yesterday, is for the shoulder to become an exit only lane, and the #2 lane to become an optional exit. So, the exit becomes a double exit. I'm not sure the shoulder was built to handle cars this frequently, but it's certainly being tested:
(https://i.imgur.com/Pw2Y8qN.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/2C6PYBp.jpg)
Quote from: Jardine on April 15, 2018, 10:19:32 AM
two lane street with adjacent parking lane and a traffic light at intersection with another 2 lane street, if no cars are parked near light, it becomes the right turn lane even though unmarked as such and a sideswipe risk for folks in the actual correct lane doing it correctly.
Actually, the cars turning from the "
curb lane" are doing it correctly. You are supposed to turn right from the right-most edge of the roadway (likewise for left turns). Drivers turning left or right from the opposite edge of the lane are risking a ticket (and a collision). Unless they are driving through markings that indicate a shoulder, a second lane (in most states) can legally be formed approaching an intersection, as long as the lane is wide enough to support two lines of cars. Most states don't permit driving off the roadway, but the roadway includes just about everything you can drive on excluding the shoulder.
In Seattle, at Olive Way/John St approaching Broadway, the road is wide enough to support four lines of cars, but only one lane is marked in each direction. The curb lane westbound permits parking, but the eastbound curb lane does not. Common practice is for the left part of the lanes (for both approaches) to be for cars turning left, and the right part of the lane to be for cars going straight or right. Neither is marked, but the maneuver is legal because the roadway is wide enough for two lanes, and drivers are allowed to occupy the same lane as other cars as long as one (or more) cars are turning left or right:
(https://i.imgur.com/QoWRFcQ.png)
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on April 13, 2018, 08:21:08 PM
Quote from: Bruce on April 13, 2018, 03:16:38 AM
Howell Street bus lanes (https://flic.kr/p/STH1EG) by SounderBruce (https://www.flickr.com/photos/sounderbruce/), on Flickr
Is there camera enforcement? Bus lanes don't work anywhere without actual camera enforcement. If drivers know they'll always get away with it, they'll always do it.
Not yet, unfortunately. I think the state legislature is working on getting cameras onto buses to automatically issue warnings and tickets in the mail, which San Francisco already uses to much success.
Seattle PD do camp out at some bus lanes and run stings ("emphasis patrols") for a day or two, then move onto another place. Here's one on Howell (https://www.kiro7.com/news/police-crackdown-bus-lane-violators/27026191) from 2015, complete with some driver reactions.
Quote from: Bruce on April 15, 2018, 07:31:05 PM
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on April 13, 2018, 08:21:08 PM
Quote from: Bruce on April 13, 2018, 03:16:38 AM
Howell Street bus lanes (https://flic.kr/p/STH1EG) by SounderBruce (https://www.flickr.com/photos/sounderbruce/), on Flickr
Is there camera enforcement? Bus lanes don't work anywhere without actual camera enforcement. If drivers know they'll always get away with it, they'll always do it.
Not yet, unfortunately. I think the state legislature is working on getting cameras onto buses to automatically issue warnings and tickets in the mail, which San Francisco already uses to much success.
Seattle PD do camp out at some bus lanes and run stings ("emphasis patrols") for a day or two, then move onto another place. Here's one on Howell (https://www.kiro7.com/news/police-crackdown-bus-lane-violators/27026191) from 2015, complete with some driver reactions.
They should really add some additional signage to the side streets approaching Howell. Drivers frequently turn into the lane they think they need (not always the closest one), and I'm sure more than a few accidentally choose the #3 lane, before realising (after already turning onto Howell) that they've entered a lane they cannot legally occupy. British Columbia has a standard sign for when drivers are supposed to turn into a lane that isn't the closest (due to HOV/transit restrictions in place), but I've never seen the sign in the US:
(https://i.imgur.com/CptPAq4.png)
Quote from: UCFKnights on April 15, 2018, 05:14:49 PM
its kind of hard to tell its a bus in the picture (probably should have text too).
It's the standard bus symbol used all across Washington. I'm sure most drivers understand its meaning. If not, there's plenty of other indications (on masts, on the pavement, etc).
Quote from: Bruce on April 15, 2018, 07:31:05 PM
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on April 13, 2018, 08:21:08 PM
Quote from: Bruce on April 13, 2018, 03:16:38 AM
Howell Street bus lanes (https://flic.kr/p/STH1EG) by SounderBruce (https://www.flickr.com/photos/sounderbruce/), on Flickr
Is there camera enforcement? Bus lanes don't work anywhere without actual camera enforcement. If drivers know they'll always get away with it, they'll always do it.
Not yet, unfortunately. I think the state legislature is working on getting cameras onto buses to automatically issue warnings and tickets in the mail, which San Francisco already uses to much success.
If it's successful, that means no one drives in the bus lane anymore.
Reviving a dead thread here, but there's an interesting practice that drivers in downstate NY have adopted at certain parkway interchanges that usually isn't illegal but is "wrong" based on the intended flow of traffic and guide signage at the interchange.
Many interchanges between the Taconic State Parkway and secondary roads are of a [baffling by modern sensibilities] modified cloverleaf design: TSP & NY-82 in East Fishkill is a good example. These are pretty awful to negotiate: all the ramps have incredibly tight radii for the speed of the parkway and no parallel acceleration/deceleration lanes so when exiting you are forced to slow down in the mainline travel lane, and when entering during busy times you usually have to stop and wait, then floor it.
Most local drivers adapt to these interchanges where possible by entering/exiting the parkway at the ramp with more favorable visibility/geometry, turning left if necessary. At the NY-82 interchange, basically every driver familiar with the area making the NY-82 North to TSP North movement will turn left to enter the Parkway: the "proper" entrance ramp involves a 180-degree turn and is stop-controlled with a bad sag vertical curve restricting visibility, while the other ramp has better visibility and is yield-controlled.
The TSP & NY-301 interchange in Kent/Putnam Valley has an even stranger, and much worse modified cloverleaf design. You would have to be suicidal or stupid to enter the TSP North using the northeastern access ramp: the overpass abutment restricts your visibility to around 400 feet.
I've alway wondered why NYSDOT hasn't just converted these interchanges to a diamond design: the volumes on the ramps would be low enough to do it in plenty of places. Maybe they want to leave all the original ramps open to preserve the "historical character of the parkway" or something like that.
Quote from: ftballfan on April 15, 2018, 04:52:00 PM
US-131 through downtown Grand Rapids. There are solid white lines between the Wealthy St and Pearl St exits, yet people still change lanes
That's perfectly legal.
The I-84 tunnel in Hartford. All lanes are solid white lines within the tunnel, which I understand prohibits lane changes. The lines become dashed again as you exit the tunnel, but people still change lanes within the tunnel itself. In addition, eastbound drivers oftentimes cut across the chevron divider at the last second at full speed to get in the lane for I-91 North, which is definitely a no-no in both the courtesy and legal departments.
MnDOT marks such things with a double white line and signs that state "DO NOT CROSS DOUBLE WHITE LINE", in regards to the Lowry Hill Tunnel on I-94 (and also in places where the vehicles in the MnPass lane aren't supposed to enter the general travel lanes). I wonder if that standard couldn't be used elsewhere.
A single solid white line indicates that changing lanes is discouraged but not prohibited.
A double solid white line indicates that changing lanes is prohibited.
The rules are different than those applying to solid yellow lines, as yellow lines divide directions of travel. A single solid yellow line means the same thing as a double solid yellow line: it is prohibited to drive on the wrong side of it.
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on December 29, 2018, 05:42:19 PM
MnDOT marks such things with a double white line and signs that state "DO NOT CROSS DOUBLE WHITE LINE", in regards to the Lowry Hill Tunnel on I-94 (and also in places where the vehicles in the MnPass lane aren't supposed to enter the general travel lanes).
Yep --- small world (again)! Was just on I-35W this morning. I
really like how the HOT lane has a double-solid for about a mile through the I-494 interchange. It keeps all the merging traffic from entering until further downstream, so that lane is guaranteed to be flowing --- quite a feat for such an antiquated and congested interchange. It is awesome to whiz by at 70mph while the other lanes slow down to accommodate all the incoming traffic.
Quote from: webny99 on December 29, 2018, 06:43:17 PM
It is awesome to whiz by at 70mph while the other lanes slow down to accommodate all the incoming traffic.
But also kind of nerve-racking, just waiting for that one idiot to dart out into the other lane at 40 mph less than the flow.
If it was a weekday, you would be posting about how many morons violate it and defeat the purpose.
Personally I'd be OK if one of the interchanges between 494 and 98th St was taken out, preferably the 82nd St interchange due to its proximity to 494.
Technically it's not illegal as such, but it is plainly dumb -- but the design of the road makes it all but impossible that it won't happen: drivers speeding up and attempting to pass you on the right -- but using lanes that either (a) end or (b) exit! I-280 through downtown San Jose -- in both directions -- is the poster child for this. Lanes either exit or simply disappear (with some, but not comprehensive, signage indicating the fate of the lane). So drivers move to the right, either to pass or anticipating their exit somewhere down the road -- only to find that the lane's gone or is going to be in short order. WB (cardinal north) is particularly bad because between CA 87 and the I-880/CA 17 interchange the freeway does what I call the "Caltrans Shift", adding left lanes while either dropping or exiting the right ones; eventually only the added lanes (3 total) go through the 880/17 interchange. So virtually everyone who's been riding in all but the leftmost lane will have to shift or exit in a stretch with either an exit or entrance every half mile! It's four miles of "oh, shit" unless you've been on it several times and have mastered the idiom!
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 29, 2018, 05:23:55 PM
The I-84 tunnel in Hartford. All lanes are solid white lines within the tunnel, which I understand prohibits lane changes. The lines become dashed again as you exit the tunnel, but people still change lanes within the tunnel itself. In addition, eastbound drivers oftentimes cut across the chevron divider at the last second at full speed to get in the lane for I-91 North, which is definitely a no-no in both the courtesy and legal departments.
Not according to ConnDOT regulations. The only time solid white lines prohibit movement is for gore points and shoulders. There are also no statues specifically prohibiting lane changes over solid white lines.
US 175 @ Malloy Bridge Rd in Seagoville, TX has a lot of drivers do things wrong:
Southbound Malloy Bridge @ West US 175 service road:
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.6476743,-96.533657,3a,75y,204.69h,87.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slaK1eTmdFs_D7P_W4Ci6iA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Southbound Malloy Bridge @ East US 175 service road:
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.6469717,-96.5342722,3a,75y,232.26h,95.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slAsD3hmlJ6ZHWOenvmqD1Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Northbound Malloy Bridge @ West US 175 service road:
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.6473495,-96.5338748,3a,75y,47.1h,94.57t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sv-a3O8pm1qE8BfdxjbVL2w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
For southbound traffic, the right lane is right turn only, and cars in the left lane are supposed to swerve into the right lane in the intersection because the lane they're in becomes a left-turn only for northbound traffic. Then that lane becomes a left-turn only lane to the 175 East service road. If there's no northbound traffic in that left lane, some people wanting to go east will go straight through the lane (on the wrong side of the road) and turn left. Also a lot of people (including myself) will start the turn waaaaayyyy before the end of the solid yellow lines, since there's no median.
Another big problem is northbound traffic turning left to go east completely ignoring the dual turn lane setup and/or going whether they have the green arrow or not.
Quote from: webny99 on April 12, 2018, 09:03:36 AM
Confession time: I've gotten myself into some close shaves at this location (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1391586,-77.5386741,3a,75y,324.81h,100.5t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ssd2fxuk7DjrZtoOOOaNXLQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) because, during afternoon rush, when the ramp to NY 590 North is notoriously congested, every single driver does the wrong thing here. About 2/3 do this (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1381541,-77.5367356,3a,75y,13.9h,90.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scadmxbexDzgdddX4JDeYGQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), and I mean, literally, make a 90 degree turn in the direction you're looking and start lining up back onto the on-ramp, hundreds of feet before it even joins the mainline. Everyone else whizzes by at speed and then brakes at the last second to LOOK for a gap in traffic that does not exist, idiotically slowing down the southbound lane, and making delays even worse. ...
Every time I personally try to merge at the merge point, I get traffic swarming around on both sides and trying to cut in front. This irks me to no end ... and I don't know what to do to diffuse this awful situation without doing the wrong thing myself, and I can't accept that as a solution.
Alright, I know this is an old topic, but as rush hour traffic has picked up again in the wake of Covid, this ramp has become an issue again, and I continue to ponder what is the "right" way to do things here. My default is to stay in the right lane, allow a bit of extra space in front of me to avoid constant braking, and merge into the entrance ramp lane right away when it joins, taking pains to keep moving, while also avoiding interference with entering traffic. It works pretty well - and as long as I keep moving, people don't usually cut over to the
right way too early and come "swarming" up from behind, like I originally described. However, people staying to the
left and then cutting in at the last second is invariably still an issue, which of course creates ripple effects of braking and slows everyone down.
So I guess my big-picture question would be, what do other folks think is the "right" way to handle a short, high-volume weave? Do I just accept as fact that people are going to cut in? Do you think I'm navigating this one as well as possible, or is there a better solution apart from widening the congested ramp?
Quote from: webny99 on May 25, 2022, 06:19:21 PM
So I guess my big-picture question would be, what do other folks think is the "right" way to handle a short, high-volume weave?
Get into the less-trafficked lane as soon as possible. Maybe this is reasonable to accomplish without crossing over a painted gore, but don't ignore what might be a good maneuver idea just because of some painted lines. What matters most is what the
vehicles are doing, not what the
stripes are like.
Quote from: webny99 on May 25, 2022, 06:19:21 PM
Do I just accept as fact that people are going to cut in?
Yes. When weaving traffic is thick, "cutting in" by some people is almost unavoidable. In fact, it may even be preferable. You should expect it, look ahead for it to happen, and accommodate it. That's part of helping traffic flow as smoothly as possible.
Quote from: kphoger on May 25, 2022, 06:57:01 PM
Quote from: webny99 on May 25, 2022, 06:19:21 PM
Do I just accept as fact that people are going to cut in?
Yes. When weaving traffic is thick, "cutting in" by some people is almost unavoidable. In fact, it may even be preferable. You should expect it, look ahead for it to happen, and accommodate it. That's part of helping traffic flow as smoothly as possible.
I disagree as pertains to when traffic is moving very slowly or stopped up ahead. People cutting in is a big part of what's
causing that to happen.
Quote from: webny99 on May 25, 2022, 06:19:21 PM
Do I just accept as fact that people are going to cut in? Do you think I'm navigating this one as well as possible, or is there a better solution apart from widening the congested ramp?
First of all, am I understanding this correctly? Do drivers really make a 90-degree turn onto the Highland Ave ramp, so that they can get in line for the NY-590 ramp ahead? If so that's hilarious, and really bad.
In terms of merging traffic, what can you do about it? You can't control other drivers. If you can't stand other drivers merging late in bumper-to-bumper traffic (which is also a mini pet peeve of mine), stay close to the car ahead and don't let them. If that backs up the southbound ramp? Not your problem, and not your fault either.
Quote from: thspfc on May 25, 2022, 08:34:07 PM
Quote from: webny99 on May 25, 2022, 06:19:21 PM
Do I just accept as fact that people are going to cut in? Do you think I'm navigating this one as well as possible, or is there a better solution apart from widening the congested ramp?
First of all, am I understanding this correctly? Do drivers really make a 90-degree turn onto the Highland Ave ramp, so that they can get in line for the NY-590 ramp ahead? If so that's hilarious, and really bad.
It's Penfield Rd, not Highland Ave (you might have been looking at 590 NB). 90-degrees is probably a bit exaggerated, but it was worse before Covid so it was definitely close to it when I originally made that comment! It's a total mess between 4:30-6 PM. Like I mentioned, I have found it really helps to keep moving approaching that entrance ramp - as long as you're moving, traffic generally won't try to cut up behind you on the right. But if traffic comes to a complete stop in that spot, anything is fair game - including cutting over where the grate is to get in line!
Quote from: thspfc on May 25, 2022, 08:34:07 PM
In terms of merging traffic, what can you do about it? You can't control other drivers. If you can't stand other drivers merging late in bumper-to-bumper traffic (which is also a mini pet peeve of mine), stay close to the car ahead and don't let them. If that backs up the southbound ramp? Not your problem, and not your fault either.
My concern is not just keeping cars from getting in front of me, but maintaining the overall flow without the constant stop-start that can back up the right lane(s) for miles, which is caused by people cutting in at the end.
Quote from: thspfc on May 25, 2022, 08:34:07 PM
Quote from: webny99 on May 25, 2022, 06:19:21 PM
Do I just accept as fact that people are going to cut in? Do you think I'm navigating this one as well as possible, or is there a better solution apart from widening the congested ramp?
First of all, am I understanding this correctly? Do drivers really make a 90-degree turn onto the Highland Ave ramp, so that they can get in line for the NY-590 ramp ahead? If so that's hilarious, and really bad.
In terms of merging traffic, what can you do about it? You can't control other drivers. If you can't stand other drivers merging late in bumper-to-bumper traffic (which is also a mini pet peeve of mine), stay close to the car ahead and don't let them. If that backs up the southbound ramp? Not your problem, and not your fault either.
Partially your fault.
If you do something to intentionally block another driver from doing something that would improve the flow of traffic–whether or not that other driver is doing a dickhead maneuver–then yes, you're partially to blame for what happens.
If you expect everyone else on the road to obey all the rules, and to obey them in just the way you'd prefer, then your expectation is not realistic. There's a certain avid Illinoisan member on this forum that takes that attitude on the road, for whom nothing is ever his own fault because they other guy did something wrong first. Don't be like that. Everyone on the road has the responsibility to help improve the traffic flow, and in the process to accommodate the timid and the bold, the stickler and the scofflaw, the slow and the fast, the prudent and the reckless, the old Mennonite farmer and the half-drunk redneck teenager.
And for what it's worth, merging "late" in bumper-to-bumper traffic isn't really against any law, is it? It's just not merging "early enough" for
your preference. It's a mini pet peeve
of mine when drivers merge really early, to the point that they haven't even matched the flow of traffic yet by the time they merge; that's not generally an issue in bumper-to-bumper traffic, but it just goes to show that two people's expectations of when to merge aren't necessarily identical.
Quote from: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 09:35:14 AM
Quote from: thspfc on May 25, 2022, 08:34:07 PM
Quote from: webny99 on May 25, 2022, 06:19:21 PM
Do I just accept as fact that people are going to cut in? Do you think I'm navigating this one as well as possible, or is there a better solution apart from widening the congested ramp?
First of all, am I understanding this correctly? Do drivers really make a 90-degree turn onto the Highland Ave ramp, so that they can get in line for the NY-590 ramp ahead? If so that's hilarious, and really bad.
In terms of merging traffic, what can you do about it? You can't control other drivers. If you can't stand other drivers merging late in bumper-to-bumper traffic (which is also a mini pet peeve of mine), stay close to the car ahead and don't let them. If that backs up the southbound ramp? Not your problem, and not your fault either.
Partially your fault.
If you do something to intentionally block another driver from doing something that would improve the flow of traffic–whether or not that other driver is doing a dickhead maneuver–then yes, you're partially to blame for what happens.
If you expect everyone else on the road to obey all the rules, and to obey them in just the way you'd prefer, then your expectation is not realistic. There's a certain avid Illinoisan member on this forum that takes that attitude on the road, for whom nothing is ever his own fault because they other guy did something wrong first. Don't be like that. Everyone on the road has the responsibility to help improve the traffic flow, and in the process to accommodate the timid and the bold, the stickler and the scofflaw, the slow and the fast, the prudent and the reckless, the old Mennonite farmer and the half-drunk redneck teenager.
And for what it's worth, merging "late" in bumper-to-bumper traffic isn't really against any law, is it? It's just not merging "early enough" for your preference. It's a mini pet peeve of mine when drivers merge really early, to the point that they haven't even matched the flow of traffic yet by the time they merge; that's not generally an issue in bumper-to-bumper traffic, but it just goes to show that two people's expectations of when to merge aren't necessarily identical.
The taper exists to provide an efficient and orderly merging of one lane into another. People cut in early because they're afraid they won't be let in at the taper. A majority of people aren't d*cks. Some just aren't paying attention. If you start to enter the lane following the taper, they will back off or (if not merging in heavy traffic) change lanes. It's their loss if they weren't paying attention in driving school and/or missed the warning signs indicating lane ends or ramp merge.
Also, if you enter the freeway at at least the speed limit, its much easier for drivers in the right lane to negotiate the merge and maintain space. Chances are we're moving either slightly faster or slower than you, so you can enter safely ahead or behind us.
I merge if I see a slot and try to get in the natural flow, I don't pass a bunch of cars to merge.
In Texas most idiots never use blinkers.
US-23 in both directions around Brighton, Michigan. People get over for the left lane exit's on I-96 far too early and slow down which causes backups. Going SB for the Detroit bound I-96 exit you have to exit on the left, likewise going NB for the Lansing bound I-96 exit you have to exit on the left. Getting on I-96 is much easier than it used to be though, used to merge right into the mainline traffic in the left lanes, now at least you enter in the right lanes but still have to exit in the left lanes.
Traffic circles in Seattle: failures to yield are common, and cutting the corner for a left turn (instead of going all the way around) is also not uncommon. The latter is especially perilous.