What street grids are the most attractive to you? One of my favorites is Patterson, CA.
Detroit. I love the way the five spoke streets branch out from downtown.
I like the fact that some of Chicago's suburbs simply continue the numbering of the street when it leaves Chicago, rather than starting over at the border. That makes life simpler.
My least favorite is Milton Keynes. No English city/town/etc. should have a street grid.
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 07, 2018, 09:00:55 AM
I like the fact that some of Chicago's suburbs simply continue the numbering of the street when it leaves Chicago, rather than starting over at the border. That makes life simpler.
I've started to look and see how far certain Chicago streets go west. There is a 229th Ave just east of Oswego (links with the State St Ave #'s) and 87th, 95th, 111th, and 115th streets go as far west as IL-59
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 07, 2018, 09:00:55 AM
I like the fact that some of Chicago's suburbs simply continue the numbering of the street when it leaves Chicago, rather than starting over at the border. That makes life simpler.
Some of the Lake Co (IN) suburbs continue the N/S numbering, but subtracting 10000. For example, near my house is State Line Ave. A house on the west side of the road, in Lansing, IL, is numbered 17602 and a house right across the street, in Munster, IN, is numbered 7601.
Quote from: Flint1979 on May 07, 2018, 03:56:02 AM
Detroit. I love the way the five spoke streets branch out from downtown.
Another nice thing about Detroit's major spoke streets is they have large medians with Michigan lefts at major intersections that help improve signal progression along the street. Here is a 40-mile continuous drive traveling BOTH directions of Woodward Avenue without getting stopped at a red light.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb2R2fPB1nE
Phoenix, every 8 streets or avenues is a mile. Both north/south and east/west streets are laid out in Mile grids which makes navigating very easy. If we're going for worst grid then I'll nominate Orlando...state highways don't belong in neighborhood streets.
Quote from: ET21 on May 07, 2018, 09:06:05 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 07, 2018, 09:00:55 AM
I like the fact that some of Chicago's suburbs simply continue the numbering of the street when it leaves Chicago, rather than starting over at the border. That makes life simpler.
I've started to look and see how far certain Chicago streets go west. There is a 229th Ave just east of Oswego (links with the State St Ave #'s) and 87th, 95th, 111th, and 115th streets go as far west as IL-59
The streets go even farther west than that. 127th, for example, can be found all the way out at the Kendall County line. And they go as far south as the Kankakee County line with the numbering.
Quote from: ET21 on May 07, 2018, 09:06:05 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 07, 2018, 09:00:55 AM
I like the fact that some of Chicago's suburbs simply continue the numbering of the street when it leaves Chicago, rather than starting over at the border. That makes life simpler.
I've started to look and see how far certain Chicago streets go west. There is a 229th Ave just east of Oswego (links with the State St Ave #'s) and 87th, 95th, 111th, and 115th streets go as far west as IL-59
Are you sure 229th Ave starts with State Street and not First Avenue in River Forest? Oswego seems really far west to link up to State Street.
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 07, 2018, 01:38:55 PM
Quote from: ET21 on May 07, 2018, 09:06:05 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 07, 2018, 09:00:55 AM
I like the fact that some of Chicago's suburbs simply continue the numbering of the street when it leaves Chicago, rather than starting over at the border. That makes life simpler.
I've started to look and see how far certain Chicago streets go west. There is a 229th Ave just east of Oswego (links with the State St Ave #'s) and 87th, 95th, 111th, and 115th streets go as far west as IL-59
Are you sure 229th Ave starts with State Street and not First Avenue in River Forest? Oswego seems really far west to link up to State Street.
The north-south numbers are like the east-west numbers. State and Madison is 0. And it's actually 248th Ave after a maps check :spin:. So it's 248 city blocks west of State Street.
I don't know what happens with that 1st Ave stuff but that might be a River Forest street grid. There's Ave numbers east of that line in cities like Oak Lawn and Evergreen Park that are in the 40s
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 07, 2018, 01:38:55 PM
Quote from: ET21 on May 07, 2018, 09:06:05 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 07, 2018, 09:00:55 AM
I like the fact that some of Chicago's suburbs simply continue the numbering of the street when it leaves Chicago, rather than starting over at the border. That makes life simpler.
I've started to look and see how far certain Chicago streets go west. There is a 229th Ave just east of Oswego (links with the State St Ave #'s) and 87th, 95th, 111th, and 115th streets go as far west as IL-59
Are you sure 229th Ave starts with State Street and not First Avenue in River Forest? Oswego seems really far west to link up to State Street.
Yes. River Forest's avenue numbers are pretty much confined to 1st through 25th east of Mannheim. This far west, the numbering systems are based off State and Madison. Will County uses the State and Madison grid for all of the unincorporated areas as well as a few municipalities (like Plainfield). The farthest west numbered avenue I know of is 248th Avenue. Here's the Plainfield area with the numbered streets and avenues, even extending into Kendall County (which has its own, different numbering system): https://goo.gl/maps/d4dZWE5q6gw
248th Ave drives my girlfriend and me nuts. Why is there this numbered street 8 miles away from any analogous street name on the same grid system!? Give the street an actual name!
The road is in Will County. In Will County, rural street addresses use the same grid as Chicago. So it is indeed the State-and-Madison grid, not the 1st Avenue stuff that occurs in places like Broadview. Unincorporated areas in Kane and DuPage Counties also use the Chicago State/Madison grid. And as Brandon mentioned, some municipalities like Plainfield still use that default grid instead of instituting their own. If you look over to Tinley Park, there is a whole series of north-south numbered Avenues that also refer to Chicago's grid--NOT Broadview's.
I guess it makes more sense for, say, Skokie to do it than Tinley Park.
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 07, 2018, 09:00:55 AMMy least favorite is Milton Keynes. No English city/town/etc. should have a street grid.
I'm not sure the cultural appropriation is that bad - the grid roads are the major distributors and then the rest is a mess of wiggles and cul-de-sacs and such like because they don't want rat-runs - even from one side of the grid square to the grid road on the opposite side.
Large swathes of English cities have grids - the Victorian terrace bits. The reason they don't come up is that they only cover small areas and the next one is on a different alignment. They tend to look like 'ladders' as they were never square grids.
Quote from: paulthemapguy on May 07, 2018, 04:12:16 PM
248th Ave drives my girlfriend and me nuts. Why is there this numbered street 8 miles away from any analogous street name on the same grid system!? Give the street an actual name!
The road is in Will County. In Will County, rural street addresses use the same grid as Chicago. So it is indeed the State-and-Madison grid, not the 1st Avenue stuff that occurs in places like Broadview. Unincorporated areas in Kane and DuPage Counties also use the Chicago State/Madison grid. And as Brandon mentioned, some municipalities like Plainfield still use that default grid instead of instituting their own. If you look over to Tinley Park, there is a whole series of north-south numbered Avenues that also refer to Chicago's grid--NOT Broadview's.
Because 248th Avenue is the name, and has been the name as long as I can remember. In fact, all of these rural (formerly rural) road have multiple names, one of which is based off the numbering system. As an example, I give you Renwick Road aka 159th Street.
Milwaukee has a very good street grid, nearly as good as Chicago's.
Away from the hills, the Los Angeles area also has a nice grid layout.
Mike
Boston, 'cause $%#& you.
Quote from: Brandon on May 07, 2018, 07:37:10 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on May 07, 2018, 04:12:16 PM
248th Ave drives my girlfriend and me nuts. Why is there this numbered street 8 miles away from any analogous street name on the same grid system!? Give the street an actual name!
The road is in Will County. In Will County, rural street addresses use the same grid as Chicago. So it is indeed the State-and-Madison grid, not the 1st Avenue stuff that occurs in places like Broadview. Unincorporated areas in Kane and DuPage Counties also use the Chicago State/Madison grid. And as Brandon mentioned, some municipalities like Plainfield still use that default grid instead of instituting their own. If you look over to Tinley Park, there is a whole series of north-south numbered Avenues that also refer to Chicago's grid--NOT Broadview's.
Because 248th Avenue is the name, and has been the name as long as I can remember. In fact, all of these rural (formerly rural) road have multiple names, one of which is based off the numbering system. As an example, I give you Renwick Road aka 159th Street.
Another: 96th Avenue is also LaGrange Road (south of I-290) and Mannheim Ave (north of I-290). I took a look and noticed Ashland Ave (1600W) southern end is in Kankakee County!
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 07, 2018, 01:10:42 PM
Phoenix, every 8 streets or avenues is a mile.
Only east of 16th St. and west of 19th Ave. Between those two (west to east), the major mile-grids are 7th Ave., then 7th St., with Central Ave. halfway between them.
The east-west streets may be in one-mile grids, but they are not 8 blocks to the mile anywhere in Phoenix.
Mesa's and Gilbert's street grids are 8 blocks per mile city-wide, but not Phoenix, Tempe, or Chandler.
Quote from: Flint1979 on May 07, 2018, 03:56:02 AM
Detroit. I love the way the five spoke streets branch out from downtown.
That's hardly a "grid" though, is it? The suburbs have much more of a grid, except where lakes get in the way.
I'd nominate Grand Rapids, except for that funky 45-degree section where one settler fought with another settler about whether roads should be set n-s/e-w or parallel to the river. Once outside that small area, the mile roads to the north (Leonard and Knapp have names instead) and the numbered streets to the south (8 per mile, again some with names like Franklin, Hall and Burton) make good east-west lines. The n/s roads are a little less regular though.
Tulsa, OK is very easy to get around in. The main arterials are usually section line roads, which are 1 mile apart from each other. The E-W section lines south of Admiral Place (roughly, I-244) are x1 (11th, 21st, 31st, etc) and x6 north of Admiral (36th, 46th, etc). The north-south section line roads in Tulsa proper have names but when you get east or west of the main part of town they are numbered. If you want to get from, say, 81st and Lewis to 21st and Mingo, there are several ways you can go by "stair stepping" along the section line roads. If you come to a traffic light that has just changed, you can make a right hand turn so you don't have to wait for the light to cycle. Of course, depending on where you are going, there are freeways that make it even faster to get to where you're going.
Orlando may not have perfect street layouts, but the address numbers are consistent in all of Orange County! East- West Central Blvd. is the baseline for N-S address numbers and Orange Avenue is the baseline for E-W address numbers.
Orange Blossom Trail is in the 14,000 block at Hunters Creek right before the address numbers reset at the neighboring county of Osceola. Pretty much everything in line east or west of Hunters Creek is got a N-S address number of 14, 000.
Omahs and Lincoln each have nice grids. They are so nice that Cass County, Nebraska uses both, which I think is just plain weird.
Quote from: paulthemapguy on May 07, 2018, 04:12:16 PM
248th Ave drives my girlfriend and me nuts. Why is there this numbered street 8 miles away from any analogous street name on the same grid system!? Give the street an actual name!
The road is in Will County. In Will County, rural street addresses use the same grid as Chicago. So it is indeed the State-and-Madison grid, not the 1st Avenue stuff that occurs in places like Broadview. Unincorporated areas in Kane and DuPage Counties also use the Chicago State/Madison grid. And as Brandon mentioned, some municipalities like Plainfield still use that default grid instead of instituting their own. If you look over to Tinley Park, there is a whole series of north-south numbered Avenues that also refer to Chicago's grid--NOT Broadview's.
It sure does refer to Chicago. Broadview has overlapping longitudes with us, but our avenue numbers are much higher. And in a few cases, Tinley actually uses the Chicago street names as well, like New England, Sayre, Odell, Oketo, Olcott, etc. All addresses are just extensions of the Chicago system. Most of the village here is in Cook County.
Will County, with a few exceptions, uses the Chicago system throughout the county. They could get addresses as high as 26400 W or 37500 S. It is unusual to see 248th Avenue in a place with no other N/S avenues, though.
Why the northern suburbs don't do it, I don't know. It would certainly make finding things much easier up there.
Los Angeles' street grid in the "flatlands" from downtown south to San Pedro and the harbor are quite regular; N-S there are between 14-16 grids per mile, easily delineated with numbered "streets" (i.e., 134th Street). The reason for the variance is to fit the grid pattern to various land grants that were either taken in by the city or county; other cities in the area (such as Gardena and, to a lesser extent, Carson and Torrance) have largely appropriated the L.A.-based numbered grid as well. While the N-S 14-16 per mile is maintained as far south as Carson, E-W is a flat 8 per mile; blocks thus are set out on a 2:1 lateral vs. vertical basis -- i.e., rectangles with the longer dimension being E-W.
Out in the San Fernando Valley, the dominant grid pattern has been deployed at 8 blocks per mile in either direction; this was done to accommodate the larger lots planned when the valley was undergoing rapid development following WW II. Curiously, the independent cities occupying part of the Valley (Burbank, San Fernando) elected to maintain independent and separate block numbering schemes.
Quote from: Flint1979 on May 07, 2018, 03:56:02 AM
Detroit. I love the way the five spoke streets branch out from downtown.
I spotted this vintage movie who explained the five spoke street branch of Detroit along with the street pattern.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSTXqNhSglc
The end of this video has some more history about the Detroit street network, focusing on the widening of Woodward Avenue. Churches were literally sliced in half and their front facade rolled back 30 feet to make room for the "wider Woodward" as it was known.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRWyx0NtpSQ
Quote from: tradephoric on May 25, 2018, 10:33:08 PM
The end of this video has some more history about the Detroit street network, focusing on the widening of Woodward Avenue. Churches were literally sliced in half and their front facade rolled back 30 feet to make room for the "wider Woodward" as it was known.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRWyx0NtpSQ
Blessed be thy Michigan Left, for improving flow at the cost of churches.
Salt Lake City's grid makes it easy to get around with the numbering, but there aren't any diagonal streets. There are a few streets that don't run exactly N/S or E/W like Foothill and Highland, but both of those are essentially N/S roads. Put it this way: there isn't a single road where it's difficult to determine whether it's a N/S or E/W road.
It's also helpful that all of the suburbs within Salt Lake County use the same numbering system. In Davis or Utah County, that's another story.
Quote from: Rothman on May 07, 2018, 11:11:25 PM
Boston, 'cause $%#& you.
Amen. But I do like DC's grid for historical reasons.
Quote from: mgk920 on May 07, 2018, 08:36:20 PM
Milwaukee has a very good street grid, nearly as good as Chicago's.
Away from the hills, the Los Angeles area also has a nice grid layout.
Mike
I'm kinda surprised you didn't give at least honorable mention to Appleton, WI.
Quote from: DaBigE on May 26, 2018, 08:37:56 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on May 07, 2018, 08:36:20 PM
Milwaukee has a very good street grid, nearly as good as Chicago's.
Away from the hills, the Los Angeles area also has a nice grid layout.
Mike
I'm kinda surprised you didn't give at least honorable mention to Appleton, WI.
The city (along with a surrounding township that also uses Appleton's grid) is OK, but metro-wide (Kaukauna through Neenah, Sherwood through Greenville, etc) is one of the absolute worst addressing messes in the entire midwestern USA. There are somewhere around 12-15 different address number grids in use in the metro area, including many duplicating street names with duplicate valid address number ranges. Most of the area's munis use their own grids.
These numbering grids do intermingle, too, with the grids literally changing from house to house to house in some parts of the metro area. I consider it to be a serious life-safety issue that will eventually have to be corrected.
:banghead:
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on May 27, 2018, 12:08:56 AM
Quote from: DaBigE on May 26, 2018, 08:37:56 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on May 07, 2018, 08:36:20 PM
Milwaukee has a very good street grid, nearly as good as Chicago's.
Away from the hills, the Los Angeles area also has a nice grid layout.
Mike
I'm kinda surprised you didn't give at least honorable mention to Appleton, WI.
The city (along with a surrounding township that also uses Appleton's grid) is OK, but metro-wide (Kaukauna through Neenah, Sherwood through Greenville, etc) is one of the absolute worst addressing messes in the entire midwestern USA. There are somewhere around 12-15 different address number grids in use in the metro area, including many duplicating street names with duplicate valid address number ranges. Most of the area's munis use their own grids.
These numbering grids do intermingle, too, with the grids literally changing from house to house to house in some parts of the metro area. I consider it to be a serious life-safety issue that will eventually have to be corrected.
:banghead:
Mike
Fair enough. I was looking purely from the physical/aesthetic infrastructure standpoint, which has a small share of hiccups itself.
Quote from: mrpablue on May 07, 2018, 03:05:07 AM
What street grids are the most attractive to you? One of my favorites is Patterson, CA.
Sacramento is nearly perfect out to 29th and W streets and very consistent out to 44th street and 44th avenue (the numbered avenues start after Y street). The east area is fairly consistent out to about 70th street and the southeast area out to the low 80s. The addressing scheme (which is pretty close to 100 numbers equals 100 meters) is pretty good most of the way along Folsom Blvd out to Folsom and on Freeport and Riverside Blvds out to Elk Grove.
Quote from: Super Mateo on May 25, 2018, 05:36:42 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on May 07, 2018, 04:12:16 PM
248th Ave drives my girlfriend and me nuts. Why is there this numbered street 8 miles away from any analogous street name on the same grid system!? Give the street an actual name!
The road is in Will County. In Will County, rural street addresses use the same grid as Chicago. So it is indeed the State-and-Madison grid, not the 1st Avenue stuff that occurs in places like Broadview. Unincorporated areas in Kane and DuPage Counties also use the Chicago State/Madison grid. And as Brandon mentioned, some municipalities like Plainfield still use that default grid instead of instituting their own. If you look over to Tinley Park, there is a whole series of north-south numbered Avenues that also refer to Chicago's grid--NOT Broadview's.
It sure does refer to Chicago. Broadview has overlapping longitudes with us, but our avenue numbers are much higher. And in a few cases, Tinley actually uses the Chicago street names as well, like New England, Sayre, Odell, Oketo, Olcott, etc. All addresses are just extensions of the Chicago system. Most of the village here is in Cook County.
Will County, with a few exceptions, uses the Chicago system throughout the county. They could get addresses as high as 26400 W or 37500 S. It is unusual to see 248th Avenue in a place with no other N/S avenues, though.
Why the northern suburbs don't do it, I don't know. It would certainly make finding things much easier up there.
Since Evanston doesn't, it wouldn't make sense for any suburbs directly north of Evanston to do it.