AARoads Forum

National Boards => General Highway Talk => Topic started by: Amtrakprod on May 24, 2018, 12:11:09 PM

Title: Invert Left arrows
Post by: Amtrakprod on May 24, 2018, 12:11:09 PM
Here's my first one, I pretty sure they are very rare. This one is very close to my house, Ill get pictures of it soon. Heres the Google maps link: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3653654,-71.1840353,3a,15.1y,209.2h,98.06t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szobSldLbhu7HFy_YVu8BSg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
Title: Re: Invert Left arrows
Post by: Bitmapped on May 24, 2018, 01:13:18 PM
I've seen this done before. It's when an agency doesn't have an actual arrow and just tapes over a ball indication.
Title: Re: Invert Left arrows
Post by: Amtrakprod on May 24, 2018, 03:15:49 PM
Quote from: Bitmapped on May 24, 2018, 01:13:18 PM
I've seen this done before. It's when an agency doesn't have an actual arrow and just tapes over a ball indication.

is it even legal???
Title: Re: Invert Left arrows
Post by: lepidopteran on May 24, 2018, 03:43:46 PM
I've only seen 2 or 3 of these in the wild.  One such location was in Mt. Carmel, PA at West & Poplar, as a 2-section with a ball red and a right arrow on continuously.  But GSV indicates it was replaced with a conventional cutout arrow, and the most recent view has the signal removed altogether in favor of a STOP Except Right Turn sign.

Hmm, can you still embed with Flickr?
https://www.flickr.com/gp/63151554@N00/9D5jH1 (https://www.flickr.com/gp/63151554@N00/9D5jH1)

Edit:
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8897/17843356203_2298e74e07_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/tbKS9t)
Title: Re: Invert Left arrows
Post by: US 81 on May 24, 2018, 03:44:10 PM
Quote from: Amtrakprod on May 24, 2018, 03:15:49 PM
Quote from: Bitmapped on May 24, 2018, 01:13:18 PM
I've seen this done before. It's when an agency doesn't have an actual arrow and just tapes over a ball indication.

is it even legal???

My guess is that it's variable by state/municipality laws. I'm no lawyer, but several years ago I was trying to understand whether or not an RTOR was legal if the signal was a right-facing arrow as opposed to a ball. Though I did not find an explicit answer, what I did find was (TX) code that stated an arrow should be considered the same indicator as a ball. Other discussions on this forum have had posters stating that other enforcement agencies make a distinction between the two.
Title: Re: Invert Left arrows
Post by: NoGoodNamesAvailable on May 24, 2018, 04:37:07 PM
I could possibly see an agency try to justify this by the lit surface area being larger than a regular arrow aspect, but it's much harder to discern as an arrow indication. A simultaneous green arrow-red ball indication for an approach could be fatally misinterpreted by a straight-through driver (similar to an unlouvered dallas phasing).
Title: Re: Invert Left arrows
Post by: kphoger on May 24, 2018, 04:44:32 PM
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on May 24, 2018, 04:37:07 PM
it's much harder to discern as an arrow indication.

Quoted because it deserves to be.