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Regional Boards => Pacific Southwest => Topic started by: Mergingtraffic on May 24, 2018, 04:19:12 PM

Title: CA Button Copy
Post by: Mergingtraffic on May 24, 2018, 04:19:12 PM
I don't usually post in this section as I usually am familiar with northeast roads....but I've been curious about the legendary CA button copy and almost every GSV section I pick have new signs on it...especially in LA around CA-110, I-110, US-101 etc.  What freeways have lost most of the classic button copy?
Title: Re: CA Button Copy
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 24, 2018, 05:37:55 PM
A lot of the Central Valley State Highways like 99 and 198 have a ton of button-copy left on them.  Basically if you have an alignment that was built in the 1950s-1960s chances are there will still be button-copy Signs.  Something that gets overlooked is how many reflective paint signs and shields are left.  In my own collection I have a ton of reflective paint shields with vinyl numerals on them.

For an easy example check the 198 easbound junction with the ramps for CA 41.  There is button-copy all over both highways at said junction.
Title: Re: CA Button Copy
Post by: sparker on May 25, 2018, 02:23:30 AM
At present, there's loads of button-copy on Bay area freeways; of particular note is US 101 from Santa Clara north to S.F.; it's intermixed with newer reflective signage.  But get up here and take your pix now; it seems that whenever some alteration takes place (even changing HOV lanes to express lanes, such as with I-880 through Fremont) the signage is changed with it -- and (hoping the new gas tax doesn't get 86'ed) there's enough projects in the queue that this will likely be an ongoing process, which will probably decimate button-copy regionwide.  Some of the button-copy signs are a "greenout jungle", however -- despite their historical significance, they're not too pretty! 
Title: Re: CA Button Copy
Post by: roadfro on May 25, 2018, 10:14:11 AM
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on May 24, 2018, 04:19:12 PM
I don't usually post in this section as I usually am familiar with northeast roads....but I've been curious about the legendary CA button copy and almost every GSV section I pick have new signs on it...especially in LA around CA-110, I-110, US-101 etc.  What freeways have lost most of the classic button copy?

I would say that, on average, most freeways now have far less button copy than newer reflective signage...

When Caltrans began the Cal-NExUS exit numbering initiative circa 2002, that was the beginning of the end for button copy. In many cases, the implementation of exit number signage for an interchange resulted in removal of older button copy signs to be replaced with newer signs with reflective sheeting and a new internal exit tab.

In some cases, routes have seen whole swaths of replaced button copy signage as the route has undergone other pavement upgrades. (An early example was during the reconstruction of I-80 from Nevada state line over Donner Summit in the mid-2000s, all signs were replaced.) Within the last few years, a few Caltrans districts have let some pure signage replacement contracts that replaced all signs along several stretches of multiple urban freeways.


I think it won't be too long before the biggest concentrations of button copy will be non-freeway rural guide signs...
Title: Re: CA Button Copy
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on May 25, 2018, 10:39:00 AM
I would say that San Diego probably still has the most amount of button copy signage left in California.  I was there this April, and many of the signs along the freeways are still button copy, more so in my unscientific opinion, than in other California cities.
Title: Re: CA Button Copy
Post by: myosh_tino on May 25, 2018, 01:54:40 PM
Quote from: sparker on May 25, 2018, 02:23:30 AM
At present, there's loads of button-copy on Bay area freeways; of particular note is US 101 from Santa Clara north to S.F.; it's intermixed with newer reflective signage.  But get up here and take your pix now; it seems that whenever some alteration takes place (even changing HOV lanes to express lanes, such as with I-880 through Fremont) the signage is changed with it -- and (hoping the new gas tax doesn't get 86'ed) there's enough projects in the queue that this will likely be an ongoing process, which will probably decimate button-copy regionwide.  Some of the button-copy signs are a "greenout jungle", however -- despite their historical significance, they're not too pretty!

Button copy on overhead signs in the Bay Area are getting rarer by the day.  There were major sign replacement projects carried out about a year or so ago region-wide.  What overhead button copy signs that still remain are primarily on the old box-truss gantries.  I remember reading a Caltrans memo asking that these gantries be inspected more regularly for metal fatigue which might explain why button copy signs on these gantries were not replaced.

With that said, there is still a ton of road-side button copy signs out there and I don't see those going away anytime soon unless they are knocked down or replaced as part of a larger project that requires their removal.
Title: Re: CA Button Copy
Post by: bing101 on May 25, 2018, 06:38:11 PM
The Last Button Copy that still exists in Northern California is the CA-113 @ I-80 interchange in Davis and the CA-37 Interchange with I-80 in Vallejo. But overall most Sacramento area freeways and Bay Area Freeways were in the process of removing button copies for newer signs though.
Title: Re: CA Button Copy
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 25, 2018, 06:42:17 PM
Quote from: bing101 on May 25, 2018, 06:38:11 PM
The Last Button Copy that still exists in Northern California is the CA-113 @ I-80 interchange in Davis and the CA-37 Interchange with I-80 in Vallejo. But overall most Sacramento area freeways and Bay Area Freeways were in the process of removing button copies for newer signs though.

Actually I've found it to be common around the Bay Area.  I took this one on I-580 heading towards Oakland a couple months back.   

https://flic.kr/p/21qLzrq
Title: Re: CA Button Copy
Post by: bing101 on May 26, 2018, 04:52:04 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 25, 2018, 06:42:17 PM
Quote from: bing101 on May 25, 2018, 06:38:11 PM
The Last Button Copy that still exists in Northern California is the CA-113 @ I-80 interchange in Davis and the CA-37 Interchange with I-80 in Vallejo. But overall most Sacramento area freeways and Bay Area Freeways were in the process of removing button copies for newer signs though.

Actually I've found it to be common around the Bay Area.  I took this one on I-580 heading towards Oakland a couple months back.   

https://flic.kr/p/21qLzrq (https://flic.kr/p/21qLzrq)
I know San Francisco City Proper has removed most Button Copy off their roads though a few years back but some of the surrounding areas may still have button copy though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYQhCofl3a0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiXygGhg0N8



Title: Re: CA Button Copy
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 26, 2018, 05:05:21 PM
Quote from: bing101 on May 26, 2018, 04:52:04 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 25, 2018, 06:42:17 PM
Quote from: bing101 on May 25, 2018, 06:38:11 PM
The Last Button Copy that still exists in Northern California is the CA-113 @ I-80 interchange in Davis and the CA-37 Interchange with I-80 in Vallejo. But overall most Sacramento area freeways and Bay Area Freeways were in the process of removing button copies for newer signs though.

Actually I've found it to be common around the Bay Area.  I took this one on I-580 heading towards Oakland a couple months back.   

https://flic.kr/p/21qLzrq (https://flic.kr/p/21qLzrq)
I know San Francisco City Proper has removed most Button Copy off their roads though a few years back but some of the surrounding areas may still have button copy though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYQhCofl3a0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiXygGhg0N8

There was some around San Jose that I was aware.  I was fortunate enough to get a couple photos of CA 130 from US 101 before it was removed recently (noted from Sparker on the 130 thread).

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4661/26106648148_6a932338e6_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FLXoXf)130CAa (https://flic.kr/p/FLXoXf) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4747/25108648987_bf315d3f58_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/EfLoza)130CAb (https://flic.kr/p/EfLoza) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr
Title: Re: CA Button Copy
Post by: myosh_tino on May 26, 2018, 07:25:33 PM
There are still quite a few overhead button-copy signs on the 90's section of CA-85 between CA-87 and I-280 in Cupertino.  CA-85 was one of the last freeways to utilize the box-beam truss for overhead signs and as a result were not part of the region-wide sign replacement projects.
Title: Re: CA Button Copy
Post by: bing101 on May 26, 2018, 10:01:03 PM
I know Sacramento used to have lots of button copy on their area freeways but in the past 4 years most of their button copy has been removed due to road projects in the area like the Beltline Freeway renovations and the I-305/US-50 renovations.

I-280 in the South San Francisco/Daly city area has most of its button copy removed.
Title: Re: CA Button Copy
Post by: bing101 on May 28, 2018, 12:11:02 PM
Vallejo has some Button copy but that's on surrounding streets though like on Redwood Street @ I-80 interchange there's still a Button Copy sign for I-80 east for Sacramento and there's still a sign for a defunct street called "Marine World Parkway" in button copy even though 13 years ago Caltrans made the east end of CA-37 a freeway within the Vallejo City limits. Also Marine World Parkway the former alignment for CA-37 has been renamed as Lewis Brown Drive within the past decade.

But overall most of Solano County Freeways had most of their button copy removed in the past decade due to freeway renovations in the area.
Title: Re: CA Button Copy
Post by: Techknow on May 28, 2018, 06:11:19 PM
I just drove from Navarro to San Francisco after a 3 day camping trip. CA 128, the main west-east highway from CA-1 to Cloverdale didn't have any Button Copy signs which is good because it is a 2 lane section with no shoulder and few turnouts. There were some Button Copy signs on US 101 though, I remember one that said US 101 Business.

And as myosh_tino has said there are many button copy signs on CA-85, especially if you are heading west to the I-280 interchange.
Title: Re: CA Button Copy
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 28, 2018, 06:17:19 PM
Spotted a button-copy 180 at the ramp on Cedar Avenue in Fresno yesterday. 
Title: Re: CA Button Copy
Post by: i-215 on May 30, 2018, 12:49:31 PM
The 210 freeway through La Canada-Flintridge is still LOADED with button copy signs.
Title: Re: CA Button Copy
Post by: sparker on May 30, 2018, 05:41:14 PM
While local freeway projects are speeding up the replacement of button copy signage on the freeways themselves, there is plenty of button copy on the surface streets approaching the freeway; downtown San Jose (Julian Street, Old Oakland Road) features smaller roadside green signs with buttons along the main approach streets.  The city of San Jose has copied Caltrans-type signage for certain major arterials to indicate major cross-streets; many of these (particularly in Willow Glen and Cambrian Park) retain button copy.  Curiously, the expressways (numbered as G-series county routes) have for the most part switched to reflective signage. 
Title: Re: CA Button Copy
Post by: bing101 on June 02, 2018, 07:29:29 PM
https://furrywa.wordpress.com/2014/12/31/button-copy-freeway-signs/

Here is a take on how Los Angeles is adapting to the newer signs.
Title: Re: CA Button Copy
Post by: Max Rockatansky on June 13, 2018, 07:35:29 PM
I was out and about quite a bit today along the coast.  CA 156 had a ton of button-copy signs still in place.  The CA 1 corridor from CA 68 north to CA 183 had copious amounts of button-copy.  CA 85 west of CA 17 had lots of button-copy, especially the I-280 shields.
Title: Re: CA Button Copy
Post by: jeffe on June 18, 2018, 01:15:49 AM
The last button copy exit sign that I know of is on North 280 in San Francisco at the 6th Street exit.

(https://i.imgur.com/vRLQQup.png)

It's mounted to the bridge, so it is protected from getting hit.  Also, all of the overhead signs in San Francisco were replaced with retroreflective signs, but this was before the Cal-NExUS program, so the gore point exit signs were left alone.
Title: Re: CA Button Copy
Post by: theroadwayone on June 18, 2018, 02:01:23 AM
I live in San Diego, and a lot of the newer work is going to get reflective signs; I think most of the older signage is still going to be button-copy until they become too illegible to be used any longer.
Title: Re: CA Button Copy
Post by: cahwyguy on June 22, 2018, 09:35:03 PM
Just adding a note: From my reading through the SHOPP and SB1 projects, there are a lot of projects to update signage to retroreflective. Links to  the projects list are in my June Highway Headline post.
Title: Re: CA Button Copy
Post by: Max Rockatansky on July 01, 2018, 01:37:58 PM
Found this button-copy BGS on CA 49 just north of Bear Valley yesterday about a half mile from the closure at the Merced River Canyon:

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1768/42399470824_5ae1f03345_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/27AGnv3)49CAe (https://flic.kr/p/27AGnv3) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr
Title: Re: CA Button Copy
Post by: Mergingtraffic on April 17, 2019, 05:56:10 PM
Just resurrecting this threat as a follower of mine posted over 1000 photos of signage from the Mexican Border of I-5 almost up to LA and it's all new signage.

Is Caltrans replacing it in lightning speed?

Also what's the deal with the exit tabs..why are they in the sign?  When they experimented with exit tabs in the 70s they were above the sign like almost every other state.
Title: Re: CA Button Copy
Post by: hotdogPi on April 17, 2019, 07:54:11 PM
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on April 17, 2019, 05:56:10 PM
Just resurrecting this threat as a follower of mine posted over 1000 photos of signage from the Mexican Border of I-5 almost up to LA and it's all new signage.

There's no threat at the Mexican border, despite what a certain person says.

(Read what you wrote again.)
Title: Re: CA Button Copy
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 17, 2019, 08:42:40 PM
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on April 17, 2019, 05:56:10 PM
Just resurrecting this threat as a follower of mine posted over 1000 photos of signage from the Mexican Border of I-5 almost up to LA and it's all new signage.

Is Caltrans replacing it in lightning speed?

Also what's the deal with the exit tabs..why are they in the sign?  When they experimented with exit tabs in the 70s they were above the sign like almost every other state.

A lot of the signage around the state is being replaced, from what I've seen in my area it usually has something to do with an SB1 project.  I would worry too much though there will be a huge swath of Button Copy in the Bay Area for years to come. 
Title: Re: CA Button Copy
Post by: ClassicHasClass on April 18, 2019, 07:52:17 AM
QuoteIs Caltrans replacing it in lightning speed?

Also what's the deal with the exit tabs..why are they in the sign?

I don't think they're necessarily replacing it any faster than they're doing with any other kind of signage. Although it varies from district to district, there is still a lot of button copy out there, even on alignments where it would be very easy to zip out and replace them.

The integrated tabs are probably due to wind issues. At least in the I.E., for example, they'd probably get blown right off the sign after the Santa Anas have barreled through, and I imagine it's cheaper than having to cut out segments or make additional ones.
Title: Re: CA Button Copy
Post by: roadfro on April 18, 2019, 11:11:33 AM
Quote from: ClassicHasClass on April 18, 2019, 07:52:17 AM
QuoteIs Caltrans replacing it in lightning speed?

Also what's the deal with the exit tabs..why are they in the sign?

I don't think they're necessarily replacing it any faster than they're doing with any other kind of signage. Although it varies from district to district, there is still a lot of button copy out there, even on alignments where it would be very easy to zip out and replace them.

The integrated tabs are probably due to wind issues. At least in the I.E., for example, they'd probably get blown right off the sign after the Santa Anas have barreled through, and I imagine it's cheaper than having to cut out segments or make additional ones.

Exit tabs within the sign have been pretty much the standard since Caltrans began the Cal-NExUS exit numbering program circa 2002.

The wind loading explanation has never carried much weight with me, especially since Nevada uses similar sign bridge trusses and has had exit tabs for as long as I can remember. I think Caltrans just wanted to save money with the program by simply replacing sign panels with another of the exact same dimension (easier to design and install).
Title: Re: CA Button Copy
Post by: ClassicHasClass on April 20, 2019, 12:34:43 AM
QuoteExit tabs within the sign have been pretty much the standard since Caltrans began the Cal-NExUS exit numbering program circa 2002.

There are still some tab-outside signs on CA 110 from the earlier flirtation.
Title: Re: CA Button Copy
Post by: RZF on April 20, 2019, 02:12:15 AM
Unpopular opinion: I actually prefer the reflective signs. They just look so much cleaner and modern-looking. I hate seeing dirty, dingy button copy signs on freeways, especially where I live (Southern California). Most of the button copy writing is brown, possibly from years of smog. Just my two cents...
Title: Re: CA Button Copy
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 20, 2019, 09:52:01 AM
Quote from: RZF on April 20, 2019, 02:12:15 AM
Unpopular opinion: I actually prefer the reflective signs. They just look so much cleaner and modern-looking. I hate seeing dirty, dingy button copy signs on freeways, especially where I live (Southern California). Most of the button copy writing is brown, possibly from years of smog. Just my two cents...

But when button copy is new it looks really good.  There are a ton of somewhat recent button copy installs around District 6, especially in the Fresno Area on CA 168.  I'm a big fan of the darker shade of green reflective paint the button copy signs used. 
Title: Re: CA Button Copy
Post by: ClassicHasClass on April 20, 2019, 07:01:39 PM
QuoteI hate seeing dirty, dingy button copy signs on freeways, especially where I live (Southern California).

I don't like those either, but in fairness, many of the worst signs are the ones where they were previously enamel and the buttons were glued on. This yields a rather unsatisfactory result compared to preformed letters with integrated reflectors and they look rather better.
Title: Re: CA Button Copy
Post by: bing101 on April 21, 2019, 04:38:01 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 17, 2019, 08:42:40 PM
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on April 17, 2019, 05:56:10 PM
Just resurrecting this threat as a follower of mine posted over 1000 photos of signage from the Mexican Border of I-5 almost up to LA and it's all new signage.

Is Caltrans replacing it in lightning speed?

Also what's the deal with the exit tabs..why are they in the sign?  When they experimented with exit tabs in the 70s they were above the sign like almost every other state.

A lot of the signage around the state is being replaced, from what I've seen in my area it usually has something to do with an SB1 project.  I would worry too much though there will be a huge swath of Button Copy in the Bay Area for years to come.


I see Button Copy Mainly on the streets though leading up to freeways for now though in some parts of NorCal though.
Title: Re: CA Button Copy
Post by: Max Rockatansky on April 21, 2019, 04:41:00 PM
Quote from: bing101 on April 21, 2019, 04:38:01 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 17, 2019, 08:42:40 PM
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on April 17, 2019, 05:56:10 PM
Just resurrecting this threat as a follower of mine posted over 1000 photos of signage from the Mexican Border of I-5 almost up to LA and it's all new signage.

Is Caltrans replacing it in lightning speed?

Also what's the deal with the exit tabs..why are they in the sign?  When they experimented with exit tabs in the 70s they were above the sign like almost every other state.

A lot of the signage around the state is being replaced, from what I've seen in my area it usually has something to do with an SB1 project.  I would worry too much though there will be a huge swath of Button Copy in the Bay Area for years to come.


I see Button Copy Mainly on the streets though leading up to freeways for now though in some parts of NorCal though.

That's typically where you'll see it but some routes that have newer button copy on the mainline off the top my head included; 198, 41 and 168.   I'm not even really sure if button copy was even removed as an option in the Caltrans MUTCD. 
Title: Re: CA Button Copy
Post by: bing101 on April 21, 2019, 04:44:20 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 21, 2019, 04:41:00 PM
Quote from: bing101 on April 21, 2019, 04:38:01 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 17, 2019, 08:42:40 PM
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on April 17, 2019, 05:56:10 PM
Just resurrecting this threat as a follower of mine posted over 1000 photos of signage from the Mexican Border of I-5 almost up to LA and it's all new signage.

Is Caltrans replacing it in lightning speed?

Also what's the deal with the exit tabs..why are they in the sign?  When they experimented with exit tabs in the 70s they were above the sign like almost every other state.

A lot of the signage around the state is being replaced, from what I've seen in my area it usually has something to do with an SB1 project.  I would worry too much though there will be a huge swath of Button Copy in the Bay Area for years to come.


I see Button Copy Mainly on the streets though leading up to freeways for now though in some parts of NorCal though.

That's typically where you'll see it but some routes that have newer button copy on the mainline off the top my head included; 198, 41 and 168.   I'm not even really sure if button copy was even removed as an option in the Caltrans MUTCD.


Depends on the specifics of a road renovation project?