You know, like sidewalks, and airport terminals, and so on.
Which rules of the road do you think should apply to bikes and pedestrians (and so forth) and to what extent?
It should be "walk left, stand right" on escalators and moving sidewalks, everywhere, at all times. Maybe "walk right, stand left" in countries where they drive on the left side of the road, but people need to not stand two abreast on escalators and moving sidewalks.
Cyclists should come to a stop at stop signs. I'm a little fed up with coming to a four-way-stop before a cyclist traveling perpendicular to my direction of motion and having to wait while they fly through the intersection.
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 29, 2018, 10:27:04 AM
I'm a little fed up with coming to a four-way-stop
I know you added a clause, but for me personally, this works well just like this, as a standalone statement. :-D
Quote from: webny99 on May 29, 2018, 10:08:09 AM
You know, like sidewalks, and airport terminals, and so on.
Which rules of the road do you think should apply to bikes and pedestrians (and so forth) and to what extent?
Supermarkets and wherever you would find shopping carts. In what insane universe do people think it's ok to just park the shopping cart in the middle of the aisle. And not just once, but multiple times during the grocery trip, and each and every time they shop?
Or people that are walking, and just stop to look at something, completely unaware that there may be other people in the same general area walking as well. And even worse, when they turn around to walk back, completely ignoring that there were people behind them.
I think about this sort of question sometimes when I see people do stupid shit, and all I can think about is that I hope they have just a few more ounces of common sense when they drive (spoiler alert - they don't).
Quote from: webny99 on May 29, 2018, 10:36:41 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 29, 2018, 10:27:04 AM
I'm a little fed up with coming to a four-way-stop
I know you added a clause, but for me personally, this works well just like this, as a standalone statement. :-D
Ha! Which reminds me, I'm also a little fed up with people who assume two-way stops are four-way stops and pull out in front of me because they think I have a stop sign when I don't.
You know the "stand right, walk left" rules on escalators in subway systems people have been talking about.
It's rather funny because on the London Underground, despite traffic being on the other side of the road, to my knowledge it is "stand right, walk left" there.
The TTC used to actually place that on the escalators themselves, but have since removed it since the early 2000s as honestly it is dangerous but no one gives a crap anyway.
(https://www.torontoist.com/attachments/toronto_david/escalator-2.jpg)
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 29, 2018, 10:27:04 AM
Cyclists should come to a stop at stop signs. I'm a little fed up with coming to a four-way-stop before a cyclist traveling perpendicular to my direction of motion and having to wait while they fly through the intersection.
Some states have lightened up on that requirement, letting bikes blow through stop signs when it's safe to do so, since it's harder for bicyclists to stop and restart than for pedestrians or operators of motorized vehicles. But not in the situation you describe.
Quote from: oscar on May 29, 2018, 01:25:23 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 29, 2018, 10:27:04 AM
Cyclists should come to a stop at stop signs. I'm a little fed up with coming to a four-way-stop before a cyclist traveling perpendicular to my direction of motion and having to wait while they fly through the intersection.
Some states have lightened up on that requirement, letting bikes blow through stop signs when it's safe to do so, since it's harder for bicyclists to stop and restart than for pedestrians or operators of motorized vehicles. But not in the situation you describe.
The "Idaho Stop" to which you refer to allows bicyclists to treat stop signs as yield signs when there is no intervening traffic. Which effectively means, slow down on approach...and if there's no traffic already at the intersection, keep going.
But yes, that's not as Abe described. Though in my experience, the type of cyclist to blow through stop signs in the fashion Abe dscribes is likely a MAMIL (look it up if you don't know) who also has a tendency to treat stop signs the same way when they're in a motor vehicle.
Quote from: froggie on May 29, 2018, 01:36:39 PM
Quote from: oscar on May 29, 2018, 01:25:23 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 29, 2018, 10:27:04 AM
Cyclists should come to a stop at stop signs. I'm a little fed up with coming to a four-way-stop before a cyclist traveling perpendicular to my direction of motion and having to wait while they fly through the intersection.
Some states have lightened up on that requirement, letting bikes blow through stop signs when it's safe to do so, since it's harder for bicyclists to stop and restart than for pedestrians or operators of motorized vehicles. But not in the situation you describe.
The "Idaho Stop" to which you refer to allows bicyclists to treat stop signs as yield signs when there is no intervening traffic. Which effectively means, slow down on approach...and if there's no traffic already at the intersection, keep going.
But yes, that's not as Abe described. Though in my experience, the type of cyclist to blow through stop signs in the fashion Abe dscribes is likely a MAMIL (look it up if you don't know) who also has a tendency to treat stop signs the same way when they're in a motor vehicle.
*googles MAMIL* Haha, oh dear.
I don't think they do the same thing in motor vehicles, I think the attitude is very much "Fuck you, I'll do what I want because I know you won't pulverize me when I do."
Quote from: MisterSG1 on May 29, 2018, 01:12:18 PMThe TTC used to actually place that on the escalators themselves, but have since removed it since the early 2000s as honestly it is dangerous but no one gives a crap anyway.
WMATA refused to put up similar signs on their escalators because it was their official position that riders shouldn't be walking on escalators. Seriously.
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 29, 2018, 01:53:40 PM
Quote from: MisterSG1 on May 29, 2018, 01:12:18 PMThe TTC used to actually place that on the escalators themselves, but have since removed it since the early 2000s as honestly it is dangerous but no one gives a crap anyway.
WMATA refused to put up similar signs on their escalators because it was their official position that riders shouldn't be walking on escalators. Seriously.
Considering the notorious fragility and unreliability of WMATA's escalators, there's something to that.
Notwithstanding, people standing on the left (often tourists) get yelled at by other users trying to pass them.
Quote from: oscar on May 29, 2018, 02:07:31 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 29, 2018, 01:53:40 PM
Quote from: MisterSG1 on May 29, 2018, 01:12:18 PMThe TTC used to actually place that on the escalators themselves, but have since removed it since the early 2000s as honestly it is dangerous but no one gives a crap anyway.
WMATA refused to put up similar signs on their escalators because it was their official position that riders shouldn't be walking on escalators. Seriously.
Considering the notorious fragility and unreliability of WMATA's escalators, there's something to that.
Notwithstanding, people standing on the left (often tourists) get yelled at by other users trying to pass them.
And rightfully so. Commuting to work on Metro during tourist season was like trying to drive to work with a parade in front of you.
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 29, 2018, 01:53:40 PM
Quote from: MisterSG1 on May 29, 2018, 01:12:18 PMThe TTC used to actually place that on the escalators themselves, but have since removed it since the early 2000s as honestly it is dangerous but no one gives a crap anyway.
WMATA refused to put up similar signs on their escalators because it was their official position that riders shouldn't be walking on escalators. Seriously.
Airports seem to be the only acceptable place for such signage.
Likewise, sports stadiums seem to be the only normal place to find people drinking a beer while on an escalator.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 29, 2018, 02:16:36 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 29, 2018, 01:53:40 PM
Quote from: MisterSG1 on May 29, 2018, 01:12:18 PMThe TTC used to actually place that on the escalators themselves, but have since removed it since the early 2000s as honestly it is dangerous but no one gives a crap anyway.
WMATA refused to put up similar signs on their escalators because it was their official position that riders shouldn't be walking on escalators. Seriously.
Airports seem to be the only acceptable place for such signage.
Likewise, sports stadiums seem to be the only normal place to find people drinking a beer while on an escalator.
I bet people do that in Vegas on the escalators that go up to the elevated crosswalks.
Some retail stores used to have directional travel lanes or would direct traffic-flow one-way. Stew Leonard's used to use one-Way traffic control to direct people through the store back in the 1990s when I was living in Connecticut. I wish some of them big warehouse retailers like Costco would do the same thing, usually getting around is a pain in the ass with all the foot traffic heading in random directions. .
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 29, 2018, 03:51:37 PM
Some retail stores used to have directional travel lanes or would direct traffic-flow one-way. Stew Leonard's used to use one-Way traffic control to direct people through the store back in the 1990s when I was living in Connecticut. I wish some of them big warehouse retailers like Costco would do the same thing, usually getting around is a pain in the ass with all the foot traffic heading in random directions. .
Costco also needs an express lane for people like me who frequently go just to buy a few items.
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 29, 2018, 10:27:04 AM
Cyclists should come to a stop at stop signs. I'm a little fed up with coming to a four-way-stop before a cyclist traveling perpendicular to my direction of motion and having to wait while they fly through the intersection.
It's illegal for a cyclist to just go right through a stop sign in Illinois, as far as I am aware. I always stop. In Illinois, it's legal for a bicycle to go through a traffic control signal if they've been waiting for 3 minutes, and it is safe to proceed.
As for the escalator.. My opinion on the subject is probably unpopular, so I'm not going to say it here.
Stay on the right except to pass, don't stop or turn around randomly, don't run out into the middle of an intersection when there's clearly a lot of traffic there. Just basic stuff like that. Spatial awareness is key, too (although people with backpacks tend to be horrible at knowing what's behind them as they underestimate the amount of space they take up). And don't walk side-by-side in groups so wide you end up taking the majority or entirety of the aisle/hallway either, and I don't need to see couples holding hands or making out in public. Finally, keep a reasonable speed: don't run right through people and trample everyone, but for the love of Pete, don't walk so slowly that a bloody snail could outrun you!!
This is one of the reasons I hated high school so much: just a two-hallway-block commute between periods could take much longer than necessary and cause copious amounts of road (er, hallway) rage; as such, I was known for driving (er, walking) aggressively in those days. ;-) I wanted to get to class on time and nothing more, not just stand there behind four other people who feel the need to walk really slow in front of me!
On that note, at my high school moving traffic speeds on flat hallways would vary anywhere from "acceptably slow" to "cramped and at the speed of a tortoise", but as soon as you got on the stairs, it became a race, with people running down them at 160 steps per minute and many people even taking the steps multiple at a time. As someone who broke my wrist while running down the stairs once in 3rd grade, it never made sense to me - shouldn't you be going slower down the stairs? Running down the stairs is even more dangerous when you're carrying 15 lbs of binders in front of you.
Quote from: inkyatari on May 29, 2018, 05:04:31 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 29, 2018, 10:27:04 AM
Cyclists should come to a stop at stop signs. I'm a little fed up with coming to a four-way-stop before a cyclist traveling perpendicular to my direction of motion and having to wait while they fly through the intersection.
It's illegal for a cyclist to just go right through a stop sign in Illinois, as far as I am aware. I always stop. In Illinois, it's legal for a bicycle to go through a traffic control signal if they've been waiting for 3 minutes, and it is safe to proceed.
As for the escalator.. My opinion on the subject is probably unpopular, so I'm not going to say it here.
I'm sure it's illegal, but if bicyclists were actually getting ticketed for it, they wouldn't be doing it. It's only an issue when the car doesn't see the cyclist and turns the cyclist into Hamburger Helper.
Walmart often sets up their main aisles with a "median" of pallets in the center of them. It stresses me out when people don't keep right of them.
Then again, enough about Walmart stresses me out that I rarely set foot in them.
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 29, 2018, 09:20:17 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on May 29, 2018, 05:04:31 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 29, 2018, 10:27:04 AM
Cyclists should come to a stop at stop signs. I'm a little fed up with coming to a four-way-stop before a cyclist traveling perpendicular to my direction of motion and having to wait while they fly through the intersection.
It's illegal for a cyclist to just go right through a stop sign in Illinois, as far as I am aware. I always stop. In Illinois, it's legal for a bicycle to go through a traffic control signal if they've been waiting for 3 minutes, and it is safe to proceed.
As for the escalator.. My opinion on the subject is probably unpopular, so I'm not going to say it here.
I’m sure it’s illegal, but if bicyclists were actually getting ticketed for it, they wouldn’t be doing it. It’s only an issue when the car doesn’t see the cyclist and turns the cyclist into Hamburger Helper.
Then the bicyclists and the newspapers all take pity on the bicyclist. Nary a word will be said about said bicyclist flying thru a stop sign.
I would love to send people to county jail for a few days for having no spatial awareness. /s, because someone here will probably take that literally
Seriously though, people who have no spatial awareness make my blood boil. Stop in hallways, on sidewalks, or in doorways to have a conversation? Don't do it. Walking with friends and blocking an entire sidewalk or hallway? Don't do it. Sudden stopping is annoying, keep it up people, I don't want to slam into you because you felt the need to have some public display of affection out of nowhere in the middle of the hallway.
What takes the cake for the world's worst spatial awareness is when someone's doing all of this and listening to music. There's someone at my school who stands in the doorway every single morning, waiting for her friend, funneling musical garbage into her ears and staring down at her phone, blissfully unaware of her surroundings. She makes no attempt to check if her friend is there or not, so she'll spend a while standing in the door, unable to hear people yelling at her to please move, over and over. This makes me wonder, if she drives, and if so, how much does she text and drive? If she has spatial awareness that bad, she must be bad at that too.
I'm pretty much the opposite in hallways: get to my destination as fast as I can without slowing down anyone else, even if it means weaving between people.
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 29, 2018, 02:14:46 PM
Quote from: oscar on May 29, 2018, 02:07:31 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 29, 2018, 01:53:40 PM
Quote from: MisterSG1 on May 29, 2018, 01:12:18 PMThe TTC used to actually place that on the escalators themselves, but have since removed it since the early 2000s as honestly it is dangerous but no one gives a crap anyway.
WMATA refused to put up similar signs on their escalators because it was their official position that riders shouldn't be walking on escalators. Seriously.
Considering the notorious fragility and unreliability of WMATA's escalators, there's something to that.
Notwithstanding, people standing on the left (often tourists) get yelled at by other users trying to pass them.
And rightfully so. Commuting to work on Metro during tourist season was like trying to drive to work with a parade in front of you.
Then you have the people, almost always tourists, who come to a stop right at the bottom of the escalator without first moving to one side. Where are the other people coming down the escalator supposed to go if you do that? I say "excuse me" several times as I approach, but some of them still don't move. Seems to me you don't have much choice other than to push them out of the way in that situation.
Regarding grocery stores, I sometimes joke that Wegmans needs roundabouts at the aisle intersections. I slow down and crane my neck to ensure it's clear when I'm coming out of the end of an aisle. Lots of people (seems like most of them women) don't–they just barrel around the corner. I guess it's inconceivable to them that anyone might be going in a different direction. I suppose this is hardly unique to grocery stores, though–same thing happens with people who plant themselves directly in front of elevator doors or subway car doors to wait to board because obviously nobody could possibly want to get off.
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 30, 2018, 09:33:37 AM
Seems to me you don't have much choice other than to push them out of the way in that situation.
I think that's fine. It's also acceptable to push them out of the way when they take one step into a Metro car and then stop, blocking everyone behind them from getting into the car.
Why this only happens in DC, I'll never know. I have never observed it in NYC or Chicago.
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 30, 2018, 09:42:29 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 30, 2018, 09:33:37 AM
Seems to me you don't have much choice other than to push them out of the way in that situation.
I think that's fine. It's also acceptable to push them out of the way when they take one step into a Metro car and then stop, blocking everyone behind them from getting into the car.
Why this only happens in DC, I'll never know. I have never observed it in NYC or Chicago.
I had to shove a guy out of the way once when he refused to move out of the way to let me off the train even after I said "excuse me" and "please let me out." He wasn't getting off at that stop and I guess he was afraid to step off the train to let people out.
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 29, 2018, 09:20:17 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on May 29, 2018, 05:04:31 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 29, 2018, 10:27:04 AM
Cyclists should come to a stop at stop signs. I'm a little fed up with coming to a four-way-stop before a cyclist traveling perpendicular to my direction of motion and having to wait while they fly through the intersection.
It's illegal for a cyclist to just go right through a stop sign in Illinois, as far as I am aware. I always stop. In Illinois, it's legal for a bicycle to go through a traffic control signal if they've been waiting for 3 minutes, and it is safe to proceed.
As for the escalator.. My opinion on the subject is probably unpopular, so I'm not going to say it here.
I'm sure it's illegal, but if bicyclists were actually getting ticketed for it, they wouldn't be doing it. It's only an issue when the car doesn't see the cyclist and turns the cyclist into Hamburger Helper.
The superiority that drivers have over cyclists really angers me, but then I see cyclists doing very stupid shit, and then I can't help get even more angry at them. I always obey the rules of the road, except when obeying puts my life in danger.
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 30, 2018, 10:16:06 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 30, 2018, 09:42:29 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 30, 2018, 09:33:37 AM
Seems to me you don't have much choice other than to push them out of the way in that situation.
I think that's fine. It's also acceptable to push them out of the way when they take one step into a Metro car and then stop, blocking everyone behind them from getting into the car.
Why this only happens in DC, I'll never know. I have never observed it in NYC or Chicago.
I had to shove a guy out of the way once when he refused to move out of the way to let me off the train even after I said "excuse me" and "please let me out." He wasn't getting off at that stop and I guess he was afraid to step off the train to let people out.
If you step off the train to let people off, you have to be really aggressive with ensuring a new passenger doesn't take your spot. That is also something I haven't encountered elsewhere.
Quote from: inkyatari on May 30, 2018, 10:34:15 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 29, 2018, 09:20:17 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on May 29, 2018, 05:04:31 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 29, 2018, 10:27:04 AM
Cyclists should come to a stop at stop signs. I'm a little fed up with coming to a four-way-stop before a cyclist traveling perpendicular to my direction of motion and having to wait while they fly through the intersection.
It's illegal for a cyclist to just go right through a stop sign in Illinois, as far as I am aware. I always stop. In Illinois, it's legal for a bicycle to go through a traffic control signal if they've been waiting for 3 minutes, and it is safe to proceed.
As for the escalator.. My opinion on the subject is probably unpopular, so I'm not going to say it here.
I'm sure it's illegal, but if bicyclists were actually getting ticketed for it, they wouldn't be doing it. It's only an issue when the car doesn't see the cyclist and turns the cyclist into Hamburger Helper.
The superiority that drivers have over cyclists really angers me, but then I see cyclists doing very stupid shit, and then I can't help get even more angry at them. I always obey the rules of the road, except when obeying puts my life in danger.
Right. I don't advocate for drivers running cyclists off the road or otherwise endangering their health, and I don't advocate for cyclists who carry their bike locks on their bikes to use as weapons against cars.
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 30, 2018, 10:34:33 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 30, 2018, 10:16:06 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 30, 2018, 09:42:29 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 30, 2018, 09:33:37 AM
Seems to me you don’t have much choice other than to push them out of the way in that situation.
I think that's fine. It's also acceptable to push them out of the way when they take one step into a Metro car and then stop, blocking everyone behind them from getting into the car.
Why this only happens in DC, I'll never know. I have never observed it in NYC or Chicago.
I had to shove a guy out of the way once when he refused to move out of the way to let me off the train even after I said “excuse me” and “please let me out.” He wasn’t getting off at that stop and I guess he was afraid to step off the train to let people out.
If you step off the train to let people off, you have to be really aggressive with ensuring a new passenger doesn't take your spot. That is also something I haven't encountered elsewhere.
Unless it's a specifically reserved seat, it's not "your spot".
And if you're standing in an area where you have to get off the train to let people off, chances are you aren't supposed to be standing in that spot to begin with.
And if the train was that crowded that it was the only spot available, and you had to move to let people off, then that means you can re-enter the train and move further in to a spot that's not by the door, in the way of others.
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 29, 2018, 10:27:04 AM
Cyclists should come to a stop at stop signs. I'm a little fed up with coming to a four-way-stop before a cyclist traveling perpendicular to my direction of motion and having to wait while they fly through the intersection.
As one member of what seems to be a sorrowfully small minority of law-abiding bicyclists, I agree with you. But I'd argue that made a rather revealing mistake by posting that item to this thread (Applying Rules of the Road
Elsewhere). Cyclists aren't
elsewhere–they're on the same road as motorists and bound by the same laws. So of course, every
STOP, every
DO NOT ENTER, every
SPEED LIMIT 15 applies every bit as much to a bicyclist as it does to someone behind the wheel of a car. And in my opinion, as long as Americans keep thinking of cyclists as something other than what they are–operators of vehicles–we won't be in a position to take cycling seriously as a mode of functional transportation. Cyclists are condemned to being "kids playing with their toys" –simultaneously above the law and beneath the respect of motorists and transportation officials.
Quote from: briantroutman on May 30, 2018, 11:52:43 AM
As one member of what seems to be a sorrowfully small minority of law-abiding bicyclists, I agree with you. But I'd argue that made a rather revealing mistake by posting that item to this thread (Applying Rules of the Road Elsewhere). Cyclists aren't elsewhere–they're on the same road as motorists and bound by the same laws. So of course, every STOP, every DO NOT ENTER, every SPEED LIMIT 15 applies every bit as much to a bicyclist as it does to someone behind the wheel of a car. And in my opinion, as long as Americans keep thinking of cyclists as something other than what they are–operators of vehicles–we won't be in a position to take cycling seriously as a mode of functional transportation. Cyclists are condemned to being "kids playing with their toys" –simultaneously above the law and beneath the respect of motorists and transportation officials.
:clap:
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 30, 2018, 11:06:13 AM
And if you're standing in an area where you have to get off the train to let people off, chances are you aren't supposed to be standing in that spot to begin with.
Nonsense - there is no rule against standing in the doorway or the vestibule.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 30, 2018, 11:06:13 AMAnd if the train was that crowded that it was the only spot available, and you had to move to let people off, then that means you can re-enter the train and move further in to a spot that's not by the door, in the way of others.
What I'm talking about specifically is:
(1) I step off to let people out
(2) Everyone getting off at that stop gets off
(3) A new rider steps on the train before I do
Sadly, it's a sterling example of the me-first mentality many Washingtonians have.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 29, 2018, 11:05:45 AM
Supermarkets and wherever you would find shopping carts. In what insane universe do people think it's ok to just park the shopping cart in the middle of the aisle. And not just once, but multiple times during the grocery trip, and each and every time they shop?
I hadn't even thought of grocery stores when I started this thread. But yeah, that really bothers me as well. Wegmans can get really busy, so even with a lot of shoppers using the smaller carts, I think some of the main aisle junctions need to be stoplight-controlled (as opposed to "crash-prone modern roundabouts") :-D
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 30, 2018, 08:34:35 AM
Walmart often sets up their main aisles with a "median" of pallets in the center of them. It stresses me out when people don't keep right of them.
Wegmans does this too, primarily on the main aisle perpendicular to the checkouts. I'm sure the same people that do this are the ones I saw left-lane camping on the freeway ten minutes prior. Whenever someone's slow or stopped (or coming towards me) on my side, I have to switch sides and start weaving with the cross traffic, which is annoying as heck :banghead:
Quote from: 1 on May 30, 2018, 09:21:33 AM
I'm pretty much the opposite in hallways: get to my destination as fast as I can without slowing down anyone else, even if it means weaving between people.
This is my exact strategy; in the hall at school, in the airport, and when I'm out for a walk or jog.
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 30, 2018, 12:36:20 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 30, 2018, 11:06:13 AM
And if you're standing in an area where you have to get off the train to let people off, chances are you aren't supposed to be standing in that spot to begin with.
Nonsense - there is no rule against standing in the doorway or the vestibule.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 30, 2018, 11:06:13 AMAnd if the train was that crowded that it was the only spot available, and you had to move to let people off, then that means you can re-enter the train and move further in to a spot that's not by the door, in the way of others.
What I'm talking about specifically is:
(1) I step off to let people out
(2) Everyone getting off at that stop gets off
(3) A new rider steps on the train before I do
Sadly, it's a sterling example of the me-first mentality many Washingtonians have.
And standing in the vestibule because there's no rule against it ISN'T an example of me-first mentality?
I'm still not understanding how you can manage to let "everyone off" (as in, plural), then "a new rider" gets on before you do (as in, singular), and you can't get to a seat or away from the doors. How does the other rider get on first anyway if you're standing by the door?
Sounds like an issue one causes to oneself.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 30, 2018, 12:56:04 PM
I'm still not understanding how you can manage to let "everyone off" (as in, plural), then "a new rider" gets on before you do (as in, singular), and you can't get to a seat or away from the doors. How does the other rider get on first anyway if you're standing by the door?
Because they walk on immediately after the last rider exits the train, blowing past all the people who had to get off the train to let others off and are waiting to get back on.
Quote from: 1 on May 30, 2018, 09:21:33 AM
I'm pretty much the opposite in hallways: get to my destination as fast as I can without slowing down anyone else, even if it means weaving between people.
Very much the same for me, in most circumstances. Yesterday, just as my school had let out, a massive downpour initiated. Rather than getting to their cars and buses, everyone was crowded around the covered walkways, not bothering to step an inch out into the rain, as if it was a passing train or red light. Wanting to actually get home, (the bus isn't waiting on me) I had to part the red sea and pretty much squeeze between everybody, which took ages just to get through like five feet of people. To me, getting to where I need to go, ASAP, regardless of how urgent or non-urgent, is a priority for me. Any slower and I'll blow my top off.
In another semi-relevant situation, when I was in seventh grade, the same group of people every single day would hold up the lunch line. They'd gather up in a circle and just talk, paying absolutely no attention to the mass of people behind them and the massive void of empty line space in front of them, despite several people's requests for them to get out of the way. Eventually, people, including me, got fed up with this and simply cut in line. Then, the group of people started to complain that people were cutting them. What do you expect?
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 30, 2018, 09:33:37 AM
Regarding grocery stores, I sometimes joke that Wegmans needs roundabouts at the aisle intersections. I slow down and crane my neck to ensure it's clear when I'm coming out of the end of an aisle. Lots of people (seems like most of them women) don't–they just barrel around the corner. I guess it's inconceivable to them that anyone might be going in a different direction. I suppose this is hardly unique to grocery stores, though–same thing happens with people who plant themselves directly in front of elevator doors or subway car doors to wait to board because obviously nobody could possibly want to get off.
One thing that surprises me is that most of those in local grocery store have to drive to get to the store - and have to have a basic idea of how traffic control works. SOmehow everyone keeps forgetting that once inside the building.
Quote from: index on May 30, 2018, 09:14:26 AM
I would love to send people to county jail for a few days for having no spatial awareness. /s, because someone here will probably take that literally
Seriously though, people who have no spatial awareness make my blood boil. Stop in hallways, on sidewalks, or in doorways to have a conversation? Don't do it. Walking with friends and blocking an entire sidewalk or hallway? Don't do it. Sudden stopping is annoying, keep it up people, I don't want to slam into you because you felt the need to have some public display of affection out of nowhere in the middle of the hallway.
What takes the cake for the world's worst spatial awareness is when someone's doing all of this and listening to music. There's someone at my school who stands in the doorway every single morning, waiting for her friend, funneling musical garbage into her ears and staring down at her phone, blissfully unaware of her surroundings. She makes no attempt to check if her friend is there or not, so she'll spend a while standing in the door, unable to hear people yelling at her to please move, over and over. This makes me wonder, if she drives, and if so, how much does she text and drive? If she has spatial awareness that bad, she must be bad at that too.
Exactly why I was prone to frequent bursts of hallway rage in high school. That place was a bloody zoo.
In my high school, everyone kept right when walking in the halls and on the stairs. Otherwise, you would get run over or at least bumped into every time you changed classes. Everyone who didn’t keep right was either a brand-new freshman, an idiot, or had some sort of mental disability.
Sometimes if there were a lot of people coming towards me causing difficulty for me to make a left turn, I’d do a CFI-type left. I’d cross oncoming traffic about 20 feet before my turn and briefly walk on the far left side next to the wall.
The worst was big groups of girls stopped talking in the middle of the hallway (or worse, going somewhere but taking up so much space I couldn’t pass them). I cringe just thinking about it...
Quote from: index on May 30, 2018, 09:14:26 AM
Seriously though, people who have no spatial awareness make my blood boil. Stop in hallways, on sidewalks, or in doorways to have a conversation? Don't do it. Walking with friends and blocking an entire sidewalk or hallway? Don't do it. Sudden stopping is annoying, keep it up people, I don't want to slam into you because you felt the need to have some public display of affection out of nowhere in the middle of the hallway.
You would
hate a casino.
QuoteWhat takes the cake for the world's worst spatial awareness is when someone's doing all of this and listening to music. There's someone at my school who stands in the doorway every single morning, waiting for her friend, funneling musical garbage into her ears and staring down at her phone, blissfully unaware of her surroundings. She makes no attempt to check if her friend is there or not, so she'll spend a while standing in the door, unable to hear people yelling at her to please move, over and over. This makes me wonder, if she drives, and if so, how much does she text and drive? If she has spatial awareness that bad, she must be bad at that too.
Does anyone ever think to tap her on the shoulder?
Quote from: MisterSG1 on May 29, 2018, 01:12:18 PMYou know the "stand right, walk left" rules on escalators in subway systems people have been talking about.
It's rather funny because on the London Underground, despite traffic being on the other side of the road, to my knowledge it is "stand right, walk left" there.
Yep - it is.
We're meant to default to walking on the right on roads in the UK - because walking into oncoming traffic is safer than having traffic approach from behind you. Though I gather the London Underground escalator thing is actually because Yerkes was a Yank.
When I went to Disney World, the guidebook we had suggested that any time a line split to go left as Americans drive on the right and would take the right fork more often than not. Other than a couple of times, it didn't noticeably work - because the lines started behind the splits, and people aren't stupid enough to wait to go right, when they can go left and get to the same destination...
This thread, and especially Scott5114's comment about tapping someone on the shoulder, prompts me to think of how so many people no longer say "excuse me" or the like–they'll stand and wait or contort themselves into weird positions to try to squeeze around people, but God forbid they talk to strangers. Sometimes makes me wonder if their parents taught them too well as kids regarding that issue.
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 31, 2018, 07:56:12 AM
This thread, and especially Scott5114's comment about tapping someone on the shoulder, prompts me to think of how so many people no longer say "excuse me" or the like–they'll stand and wait or contort themselves into weird positions to try to squeeze around people, but God forbid they talk to strangers. Sometimes makes me wonder if their parents taught them too well as kids regarding that issue.
Now, I don't really do the "excuse me" thing anymore because people
don't move out of the way when you say it. Of course, my experience is tainted because I work in a casino, which has a lovely confluence of clientele skewing toward the hard-of-hearing, noisiness, and alcohol use. By the time I can get "excuse me" through to a customer (and the next one after that, and...), I could have just gone 4 aisles out of the way and be at my destination.
Then again, I understand people are there as a leisure activity and that while I may have somewhere to be, they do not, and they're the ones paying the bills, so trying to communicate "get out of the damn way" in any sort of fashion, polite or no, is awkward at best.
Happy birthday!
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 31, 2018, 02:46:12 AM
Does anyone ever think to tap her on the shoulder?
Wouldn't that be considered a sexual harassment these days?
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 31, 2018, 07:56:12 AM
This thread, and especially Scott5114's comment about tapping someone on the shoulder, prompts me to think of how so many people no longer say "excuse me" or the like–they'll stand and wait or contort themselves into weird positions to try to squeeze around people, but God forbid they talk to strangers. Sometimes makes me wonder if their parents taught them too well as kids regarding that issue.
I dunno, I was taught not to talk to strangers and I'll still yell "excuse me" when I'm trying to get off a train and no one is moving. But I'm rapidly losing patience as I get older.
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 31, 2018, 07:56:12 AM
This thread, and especially Scott5114's comment about tapping someone on the shoulder, prompts me to think of how so many people no longer say "excuse me" or the like–they'll stand and wait or contort themselves into weird positions to try to squeeze around people, but God forbid they talk to strangers. Sometimes makes me wonder if their parents taught them too well as kids regarding that issue.
Definitely use that, most of the time I have to contort myself into a weird position anyway though.
As for tapping people on the shoulder I really, really do not like touching people or getting touched (it makes me anxious and shivery and I do not know why) so a lot of the time I'll just wait.
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 31, 2018, 09:07:38 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 31, 2018, 07:56:12 AM
This thread, and especially Scott5114's comment about tapping someone on the shoulder, prompts me to think of how so many people no longer say "excuse me" or the like–they'll stand and wait or contort themselves into weird positions to try to squeeze around people, but God forbid they talk to strangers. Sometimes makes me wonder if their parents taught them too well as kids regarding that issue.
I dunno, I was taught not to talk to strangers and I'll still yell "excuse me" when I'm trying to get off a train and no one is moving. But I'm rapidly losing patience as I get older.
You need to stay polite. Think about "excuse me" being an apology for shoving them against the wall. < /cynical>
Frequently I'll tap and say excuse me at the same time. Many times they'll say 'sorry' or they'll move but look at me.
If they're stupidly in the way I'll still say excuse me, but it'll be a little more curt than normal.
If they're really annoying and don't move, then my elbow may rub against them as I move by.
One of the worst places to be an offender and stand and talk - at the end of an escalator. There is NO option other than to keep moving.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 31, 2018, 08:12:21 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 31, 2018, 07:56:12 AM
This thread, and especially Scott5114's comment about tapping someone on the shoulder, prompts me to think of how so many people no longer say "excuse me" or the like–they'll stand and wait or contort themselves into weird positions to try to squeeze around people, but God forbid they talk to strangers. Sometimes makes me wonder if their parents taught them too well as kids regarding that issue.
Now, I don't really do the "excuse me" thing anymore because people don't move out of the way when you say it. Of course, my experience is tainted because I work in a casino, which has a lovely confluence of clientele skewing toward the hard-of-hearing, noisiness, and alcohol use. By the time I can get "excuse me" through to a customer (and the next one after that, and...), I could have just gone 4 aisles out of the way and be at my destination.
Then again, I understand people are there as a leisure activity and that while I may have somewhere to be, they do not, and they're the ones paying the bills, so trying to communicate "get out of the damn way" in any sort of fashion, polite or no, is awkward at best.
I think one reason I continue to say "excuse me" even though many people don't move is that I feel like it gives me some good basis when I shove past them–"I SAID "˜excuse me' twice, but you didn't respond."
Quote
Happy birthday!
Thanks.
Quote from: abefroman329 on May 29, 2018, 10:27:04 AM
Cyclists should come to a stop at stop signs. I'm a little fed up with coming to a four-way-stop before a cyclist traveling perpendicular to my direction of motion and having to wait while they fly through the intersection.
As a cyclist who does stop, you have my permission to hit them.
(Actually, I only stop when needed, but I ALWAYS yield ROW)
I'm hopping on the bandwagon by saying that people who stand on the left on the escalator, and those who walk slowly in hallways are the ones who cause me to lose my patience.
<ranting> Seriously, you're blocking where LITERALLY EVERYONE needs to go! Why is it so hard to understand that YOU are being an obstacle, and that by moving little more than a foot, you aren't being an issue. Do you have the need to piss everyone off, just to sate your sociopathic desires, or post on Instagram "LOLZ EVERYONE IS MAD AT ME XD XD" just to get you those likes, which mean nothing? If you complain about somebody shoving you out of the way, then you CAN'T, because YOU are ruining everything and causing the issue in the first place. If you weren't standing there, we wouldn't have this issue in the first place! Some people, which may include me, have places to go - you can't be Miss Daisy and stand around talking to your friends when we actually have important things to do! <end rant>
Had to get that out of my system. Anyways, I can't tell you how many times this happens in places like the DC Metro (such as Smithsonian station), or my own school, because it seems to happen every time I encounter a staircase/doorway/narrow hallway/escalator.
My way of trying to coerce these people into moving is by saying "'scuse me" and tapping them on the shoulder. Typically it works. If it fails, then I'll say "Excuse me" a little more forcefully, and tap their shoulder again a little bit harder. If that fails, I'll probably just yell at them to move, and might even push them out of the way. I've never had to do that third action, luckily.