AARoads Forum

Regional Boards => International Highways => Topic started by: Chris on January 27, 2010, 08:24:53 AM

Title: South Africa freeways
Post by: Chris on January 27, 2010, 08:24:53 AM
South Africa also has some freeways, especially around the larger cities like Johannesburg, Pretoria, Cape Town and Durban. There is no complete nationwide freeway network, although they're progressing with it. The Johannesburg - Cape Town road is mostly a freeway or dual carriageway, but not entirely.

Here are some pictures.

N1 150 km outside Johannesburg
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm1.static.flickr.com%2F165%2F411427664_d41724578e_b.jpg&hash=1395895bbee7ee530b5be78ebd29ca9aecbd4876)

N3 in Durban
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm2.static.flickr.com%2F1013%2F632863368_10a15b05bc_b.jpg&hash=910d68aeb303667182d02e3442ff55216c7118e6)

N3
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm2.static.flickr.com%2F1124%2F632017531_c2de95f148_b.jpg&hash=631d4c07fd8951e30a576876bae350488a024c14)

M2 in Cape Town
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm1.static.flickr.com%2F74%2F153882598_d150b37bd3_b.jpg&hash=7de77075d0cd778bd6de568293f0f3a2d2ecdce0)

Port Elizabeth
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.flickr.com%2F66%2F170333581_4498db693b_o.jpg&hash=ce11a47e30d45060a070ad8a651b27a860c4d17e)

Johannesburg
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm1.static.flickr.com%2F152%2F417555916_827fc402c2_b.jpg&hash=7f0cd715b9055607742c2553c0d5a5f8b49ba89e)

Overhead sign on R24 near Johannesburg. Notice the German font DIN 1451.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm2.static.flickr.com%2F1227%2F708111284_4bc70c569d_b.jpg&hash=34e0ad2590d72b27c1b9323bd95f18cf5ac48f63)

Pretoria
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi184.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx31%2FUpington%2F01302271.jpg&hash=88518bd44a74531a46ee188be138242cfe353f92)

Durban
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi184.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx31%2FUpington%2F1160382989_6cbe45fa72_b.jpg&hash=0e976b61973acce73277989486ccf14b506177ab)

N1
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm3.static.flickr.com%2F2259%2F2043325680_a7b5e9b683_b.jpg&hash=b975bf7167e4235d3ae67d0d1a008a292403ecda)


Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: Truvelo on January 27, 2010, 08:26:59 AM
What I like is the section in the middle of Cape Town with the unfinished flyovers :cool:
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: yacoded on January 27, 2010, 10:25:16 AM
They sure do have their work cut out for them with the World Cup coming up. 
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: shoptb1 on January 27, 2010, 10:30:24 AM
Overhead lane diagrams are interesting as they don't hang over the actual lanes.  Seems easy enough to understand though.
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: xcellntbuy on January 27, 2010, 04:49:12 PM
It looks as if South African road signs are all in English.  There is no Afrikaans.
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: Chris on January 27, 2010, 04:58:39 PM
Afrikaans is only spoken by 10 - 13% of the population. Zulu is the most widely spoken, then Xhosa. English however, is prominent in newspapers, media and signs. There are 11 major languages in South-Africa. Afrikaans is mostly spoken around Cape Town and western South Africa.

However, I think it's a good idea to have one consistent and widely-understood language on the signs, instead of multiple languages or constant language changes once you leave or enter a different language-area.

As a Dutchie, I can understand Afrikaans basically. It kind of sounds like hillbilly Dutch. (simplified phonetic Dutch). However, it's a common misconception in the Netherlands that you can just go anywhere in South Africa and talk Dutch, and think people there will understand it.
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: yanksfan6129 on January 27, 2010, 05:49:44 PM
Afrikaans is the language of the white South Africans, the Afrikaners. I'm pretty sure that anywhere you go where there are white people, you will find Afrikaans.
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: english si on January 27, 2010, 06:31:50 PM
Quote from: Chris on January 27, 2010, 04:58:39 PMAs a Dutchie, I can understand Afrikaans basically. It kind of sounds like hillbilly Dutch. (simplified phonetic Dutch). However, it's a common misconception in the Netherlands that you can just go anywhere in South Africa and talk Dutch, and think people there will understand it.
Sounds a bit like US English and UK English - especially amongst those in the USA whose first language isn't English, UK English isn't understood fully. Then again, US English is a lot more widespread in the US than Afrikaans in ZA. Add to that many English speakers (especially the Brits - remnant of Empire) think that if you speak loudly and slowly in English anywhere in the world, you'd be understood. I suspect most Brits think that you could go anywhere in former pink countries (and to a lesser extent, large swathes of Europe) and speak only English and be understood by everyone. It's probably more like 40% of people in those countries that have could understand a wide range of simple English (more than just a handful of words).
Quote from: yanksfan6129 on January 27, 2010, 05:49:44 PM
Afrikaans is the language of the white South Africans, the Afrikaners. I'm pretty sure that anywhere you go where there are white people, you will find Afrikaans.
I thought that the English settlers spoke English, rather than Afrikaans? at least as a first language.
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: aswnl on January 30, 2010, 12:00:39 PM
Quote from: english si on January 27, 2010, 06:31:50 PM
Quote from: Chris on January 27, 2010, 04:58:39 PMAs a Dutchie, I can understand Afrikaans basically. It kind of sounds like hillbilly Dutch.
Sounds a bit like US English and UK English
No, there's a lot more difference. US English ansd UK English is more like Holland-Dutch to Flemish-Dutch.
Comparing Dutch to Afrikaans is more like comparing Norwegian to Icelandic.
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: Chris on January 30, 2010, 01:26:44 PM
Quote from: yanksfan6129 on January 27, 2010, 05:49:44 PM
Afrikaans is the language of the white South Africans, the Afrikaners. I'm pretty sure that anywhere you go where there are white people, you will find Afrikaans.

Not sure about that, but only 9% of the South African population is white.

Wikipedia:

QuoteThe white population is not ethnically homogeneous and descends from many ethnic groups: Dutch, Flemish, Portuguese, German, Greek, French Huguenot, English, Polish, Irish, Italian, Scottish and Welsh.
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: iwishiwascanadian on June 08, 2010, 06:59:22 PM
I was looking at roads around Gauteng (Johannesburg and Pretoria) since they are on Google Street View and saw that many of the signs were signed in Afrikaans.  Many were in English, but a lot was signed in Afrikaans.  I was surprised, especially with the abbreviations, it seems like one would be more likely to see -weg (road) or str (street) instead of the English abbreviations. 
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: Stephane Dumas on November 25, 2012, 04:23:36 PM
I dust-off this thread by mentionning this exterpt from the movie "The Gods Must be crazy" where we see vintage view of Johanesbourg's freeways circa 1980-81 in the first seconds of the clips as well as 0:40, 1:27
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz04A_cgZMQ
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: Stephane Dumas on February 11, 2013, 10:12:54 AM
Quote from: iwishiwascanadian on June 08, 2010, 06:59:22 PM
I was looking at roads around Gauteng (Johannesburg and Pretoria) since they are on Google Street View and saw that many of the signs were signed in Afrikaans.  Many were in English, but a lot was signed in Afrikaans.  I was surprised, especially with the abbreviations, it seems like one would be more likely to see -weg (road) or str (street) instead of the English abbreviations. 

I re-dust off this thread. ^^;

I saw one sign in Afrikaans in Beaufort West http://goo.gl/maps/1hf8G where a sign who mention Kaapstad instead of Cape Town.
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: lordsutch on February 11, 2013, 02:42:50 PM
Quote from: yanksfan6129 on January 27, 2010, 05:49:44 PM
Afrikaans is the language of the white South Africans, the Afrikaners. I'm pretty sure that anywhere you go where there are white people, you will find Afrikaans.

Not exactly; the descendants of the Dutch settlers in the former Orange Free State etc. (the Boers) largely speak Afrikaans, but the more British-settled Cape Colony was/is predominantly English-speaking.  I'd guess the black population favors English, to the extent they use non-native languages, in large part because the Boers/Afrikaners tended to be even less racially progressive than the British (for example, Cape Province was the last part of South Africa to resist the imposition of apartheid by the national authorities).
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: Stephane Dumas on February 11, 2013, 03:14:59 PM
Quote from: lordsutch on February 11, 2013, 02:42:50 PM
Quote from: yanksfan6129 on January 27, 2010, 05:49:44 PM
Afrikaans is the language of the white South Africans, the Afrikaners. I'm pretty sure that anywhere you go where there are white people, you will find Afrikaans.

Not exactly; the descendants of the Dutch settlers in the former Orange Free State etc. (the Boers) largely speak Afrikaans, but the more British-settled Cape Colony was/is predominantly English-speaking.  I'd guess the black population favors English, to the extent they use non-native languages, in large part because the Boers/Afrikaners tended to be even less racially progressive than the British (for example, Cape Province was the last part of South Africa to resist the imposition of apartheid by the national authorities).

From what I read on Wikipedia's entry. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrikaans
QuoteAfrikaans is the first language of over 80% of Coloured South Africans (3.5 million people) and about 60% of White South Africans (2.7 million). About 200,000 black South Africans speak it as their first language.Large numbers of Bantu-speaking and English-speaking South Africans also speak it as their second language.

Some state that instead of "Afrikaners" which refers to an ethnic group, the terms Afrikaanses or "Afrikaanssprekendes" (lit. Afrikaans speakers) should be used for people of any ethnic origin who speak Afrikaans. Linguistic identity has not yet established which terms shall prevail, and all three are used in common parlance.
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: Desert Man on February 16, 2013, 01:28:10 AM
 :hmmm: From what I know of the topic, Afrikaans is a language derived from Dutch with German and French Hugenout influences, developed in the country for over 300-400 years. South Africa strives to move on from its' ugly past of Apartheid in which they accomplished ending the system, but the problem of social inequality serves as a barrier to South Africa's image as Africa's most developed democracy. South Africa has a huge prosperous treasury from the country's history of mining valuable minerals like gold...you may find some gold mine hills inside the city of Johannesburg.
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: english si on February 16, 2013, 07:08:42 AM
Quote from: Mike D boy on February 16, 2013, 01:28:10 AMthe problem of social inequality serves as a barrier to South Africa's image as Africa's most developed democracy.
And in many ways, social inequality has increased since apartheid. And the development has regressed on many fronts - the country is more dangerous, more lawless, comparatively poorer, less democratic (it's almost a one-party system - pretty much the worst ideological stance you can take is to not support the ANC, especially if you are black) and more corrupt.

But at least it didn't do a total Zimbabwe: which, as independent Rhodesia had an authoritarian apartheid government, and then became Zimbabwe and got an violently racist totalitarian government that also made the country more dangerous, more lawless, much poorer (famine, hyper-inflation, etc), less democratic (Smith was bad, but Mugabe didn't even do internal party democracy) and more corrupt.
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: webfil on February 18, 2013, 09:35:34 AM
Demography is quite special in ZA. Life expectancy/fertility ratio does not match the usual tendencies in transitionnal demographic studies for developing countries (most people do not live more than 55 years old), that is partly due to social inequalities, but also great pandemics (antibiotics-resisting tuberculosis, HIV). In a multicultural country, high death rates may lead to political conservatism, in order to protect the culture and its social status.

The generalized consensus behind ANC you are referring to is touchy, as there are new parties emerging, criticizing the political monopoly of the ANC : http://m.aljazeera.com/story/201321812375758625
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: vdeane on February 18, 2013, 11:55:49 AM
I remember when maps labeled ZA as a developed nation.  At least that's how my social studies textbooks classified it.
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: webfil on February 18, 2013, 03:29:56 PM
The notion of developped country is quite relative, as it varies depending on the indicator you are relying to.

According to the CIA, the Gini Index places South Africa in second-to-last place in terms of development, but GDP per capita with power of purchase parity places ZA in the middle of the queue, near Brazil and China. GDP measures wealth created, Gini measures distribution of that wealth.

EDIT : Demographically speaking, the country is still considered a developing country, as it has not underwent the two phases of the demographic transition process, i.e. fall of the death rate/high birth rate -> significant population boom -> fall of the birth rate/low death rate -> fall of the population growth rate.

The death rate is still very high, but the birth rate is comparable to countries nearing post-transitionnal phases (such as Mexico, Turkey and Israel), that is why ZA is said to be still in transitionnal process, although things here are reversed. According to UN population estimations from the Development Programme, the population is expected to stagnate and/or decline around 2030-40, once epidemics and boomer's children will start dying. But then again, death rates will be higher than most "Occidental liberal democracies".
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: mc78andrew on February 18, 2013, 10:45:53 PM
I took the the gautrain from sandton city where I stayed one night at a trendy westin hotel after a week in the bush.  That really opened my eyes to the "two south Africa's". You leave sandton and it's almost like leaving any rich American suburb (minus a little more barbed wire around stuff).  There is a Bentley dealership and all.  Then the train stops in Alexandria...sights like that are not prevalent in any American ghetto.  Then it arrives at the airport and its like being back in the in heart of a modern economy.

I felt safe when I was there, but you just know what's lurking nearby...a lot of people with nothing to lose and not a lot of people to stop them if they randomly act in violence. Not going back to joberg anytime soon.
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: Stephane Dumas on April 07, 2013, 11:37:26 AM
I spotted that video about the Nelson Mandela bridge linking 2 areas of Johannesburg. It's in Afrikaans with English subtitles.
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: Interstatefan78 on May 28, 2013, 03:37:45 PM
N1 150kms (93 mi) outside of Jo burg looks like the same as US 101 north of SLO with a 65-70 mph (105-110 kmh) limit, but that stretch of N1 150 kilometers outside of Johannesburg does have a speed limit of 110-120 kmh, but does South Africa use 110-120 kmh on a dual carriageway. In contrast USA does use 60-105 kmh  (40-65 mph) on a dual carriageway, but freeway grade dual carriageway gets a 105-135 kmh (65-85 mph) 
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: kphoger on May 28, 2013, 06:14:01 PM
Quote from: Interstatefan78 on May 28, 2013, 03:37:45 PM
N1 150kms (93 mi) outside of Jo burg looks like the same as US 101 north of SLO with a 65-70 mph (105-110 kmh) limit, but that stretch of N1 150 kilometers outside of Johannesburg does have a speed limit of 110-120 kmh,

That either puts you near Bela-Bela (Limpopo) or Koppies (Free State).  Shall we assume you mean near Bela-Bela, north of Johannesburg?

Quote from: Interstatefan78 on May 28, 2013, 03:37:45 PM
but does South Africa use 110-120 kmh on a dual carriageway.

Is that a statement or a question?  If it's a question, then the answer is yes.  Speed limits in South Africa go up to 120 km/h.  Wikipedia even states that speed limits on single carriageways range from 80—120 km/h (50—75 mph), but it doesn't provide a reference.

Quote from: Interstatefan78 on May 28, 2013, 03:37:45 PM
In contrast USA does use 60-105 kmh  (40-65 mph) on a dual carriageway,

And even higher.  In the western USA, dual carriageway speed limits generally range from 115—135 km/h (70—85 mph).

Quote from: Interstatefan78 on May 28, 2013, 03:37:45 PM
but freeway grade dual carriageway gets a 105-135 kmh (65-85 mph) 

Not just freeway-grade dual carriageways have speed limits in that range.  There are non-freeway roads in the United States with speed limits as high as 120 km/h (75 mph); some of those aren't even dual carriageways.
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: Interstatefan78 on June 01, 2013, 12:04:12 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 28, 2013, 06:14:01 PM
Quote from: Interstatefan78 on May 28, 2013, 03:37:45 PM
N1 150kms (93 mi) outside of Jo burg looks like the same as US 101 north of SLO with a 65-70 mph (105-110 kmh) limit, but that stretch of N1 150 kilometers outside of Johannesburg does have a speed limit of 110-120 kmh,

That either puts you near Bela-Bela (Limpopo) or Koppies (Free State).  Shall we assume you mean near Bela-Bela, north of Johannesburg?

Quote from: Interstatefan78 on May 28, 2013, 03:37:45 PM
but does South Africa use 110-120 kmh on a dual carriageway.

Is that a statement or a question?  If it's a question, then the answer is yes.  Speed limits in South Africa go up to 120 km/h.  Wikipedia even states that speed limits on single carriageways range from 80—120 km/h (50—75 mph), but it doesn't provide a reference.

Quote from: Interstatefan78 on May 28, 2013, 03:37:45 PM
In contrast USA does use 60-105 kmh  (40-65 mph) on a dual carriageway,

And even higher.  In the western USA, dual carriageway speed limits generally range from 115—135 km/h (70—85 mph).

Quote from: Interstatefan78 on May 28, 2013, 03:37:45 PM
but freeway grade dual carriageway gets a 105-135 kmh (65-85 mph) 

Not just freeway-grade dual carriageways have speed limits in that range.  There are non-freeway roads in the United States with speed limits as high as 120 km/h (75 mph); some of those aren't even dual carriageways.
I would say Bela-Bela is my shot at the two lane N1, and also seen in some pictures that South Africa uses a 120 kmh in a urban freeway around JO burg and Cape Town, but here in the USA they are at 40-65 mph or in Texas 70mph (60-110 kmh)http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/50216409.jpg (http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/50216409.jpg) http://www.whyjoburg.com/image-files/e-toll-sign.jpg (http://www.whyjoburg.com/image-files/e-toll-sign.jpg)
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: Brandon on June 01, 2013, 12:23:46 AM
Quote from: Interstatefan78 on June 01, 2013, 12:04:12 AM
I would say Bela-Bela is my shot at the two lane N1, and also seen in some pictures that South Africa uses a 120 kmh in a urban freeway around JO burg and Cape Town, but here in the USA they are at 40-65 mph or in Texas 70mph (60-110 kmh)http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/50216409.jpg (http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/50216409.jpg) http://www.whyjoburg.com/image-files/e-toll-sign.jpg (http://www.whyjoburg.com/image-files/e-toll-sign.jpg)

Urban freeways are also posted at 70 mph in Michigan.
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: kphoger on June 01, 2013, 12:48:57 PM
Quote from: Interstatefan78 on June 01, 2013, 12:04:12 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 28, 2013, 06:14:01 PM
Quote from: Interstatefan78 on May 28, 2013, 03:37:45 PM
N1 150kms (93 mi) outside of Jo burg looks like the same as US 101 north of SLO with a 65-70 mph (105-110 kmh) limit, but that stretch of N1 150 kilometers outside of Johannesburg does have a speed limit of 110-120 kmh,

That either puts you near Bela-Bela (Limpopo) or Koppies (Free State).  Shall we assume you mean near Bela-Bela, north of Johannesburg?

I would say Bela-Bela is my shot at the two lane N1

If you're not sure which stretch of road you're talking about, then how do you know it's 150 km from Johannesburg?

Quote from: Interstatefan78 on June 01, 2013, 12:04:12 AM
and also seen in some pictures that South Africa uses a 120 kmh in a urban freeway around JO burg and Cape Town
http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/50216409.jpg (http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/50216409.jpg)
http://www.whyjoburg.com/image-files/e-toll-sign.jpg (http://www.whyjoburg.com/image-files/e-toll-sign.jpg)

I'm not really getting an "urban freeway" vibe from either one of those two pictures.  I've certainly seem some 75 mph stretches in the US that looked basically like that, especially with the recent higher limits in Texas between Dallas and San Antonio.
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: Avalanchez71 on July 15, 2013, 09:02:57 PM
Quote from: webfil on February 18, 2013, 03:29:56 PM
The notion of developped country is quite relative, as it varies depending on the indicator you are relying to.

According to the CIA, the Gini Index places South Africa in second-to-last place in terms of development, but GDP per capita with power of purchase parity places ZA in the middle of the queue, near Brazil and China. GDP measures wealth created, Gini measures distribution of that wealth.

EDIT : Demographically speaking, the country is still considered a developing country, as it has not underwent the two phases of the demographic transition process, i.e. fall of the death rate/high birth rate -> significant population boom -> fall of the birth rate/low death rate -> fall of the population growth rate.

The death rate is still very high, but the birth rate is comparable to countries nearing post-transitionnal phases (such as Mexico, Turkey and Israel), that is why ZA is said to be still in transitionnal process, although things here are reversed. According to UN population estimations from the Development Programme, the population is expected to stagnate and/or decline around 2030-40, once epidemics and boomer's children will start dying. But then again, death rates will be higher than most "Occidental liberal democracies".
In other words a second world country.
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: NE2 on July 15, 2013, 09:49:58 PM
In other words no.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_World
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: 3467 on July 15, 2013, 10:34:58 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developing_country
IMF considers everyone but the western bloc as developing . I had one friend who went to India and Tanzania . He felt the very top in India was certainly better off than Tanzania where there is no top but the Tanzanians led a better life than the vast majority of Indians simply because of the miseries of overpopulation. The stats show India much better off similar to Bill Gates walks into a bar and the average wealth surges

The latest UN population estimates shows almost no population growth ex Africa which goes from 1 billion to 4 billion though a recent satellite analysis of Nigeria said this country does not  have 160 million. It probably does not even have 100 million people........
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: kphoger on July 17, 2013, 05:31:47 PM
Or...

In other words no.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_World (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_World)
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: Stephane Dumas on January 04, 2014, 11:15:55 AM
I dust-off this thread about the E-toll system in South African freeways http://www.iol.co.za/motoring/industry-news/e-toll-discount-for-afrikaans-drivers-1.1624414 
http://tollroadsnews.com/news/south-africa-anc-government-says-gauteng-e-toll-will-start-december-3

I also saw this trailer of a romance film titled "Pad na jou Hart" where lots of scenes are on remote South African roads. I don't know if it might be categorized as a road movie as well http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-mAClpgqjE
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: US 41 on March 06, 2014, 06:12:17 PM
What I found most interesting is that there is a yellow line separating the left lane from the left shoulder instead of a white line. You'd think the yellow line would be separating the right lane from the median.
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: lordsutch on March 08, 2014, 01:53:23 AM
Quote from: US 41 on March 06, 2014, 06:12:17 PM
What I found most interesting is that there is a yellow line separating the left lane from the left shoulder instead of a white line. You'd think the yellow line would be separating the right lane from the median.

Ireland does the same thing. See e.g. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/ec/M20junction2.JPG/800px-M20junction2.JPG (solid on motorways, dashed on non-motorway dual carriageways).
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: Desert Man on March 26, 2014, 09:47:26 AM
Here's a world map of developed countries and those in the developing (high, medium and very low HDI) stage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2013_UN_Human_Development_Report_Quartiles.svg

Lots of surprises: Libya (esp. in 2011 before Gaddafi's ouster) and Algeria are "high" compared to South Africa's "medium" stage. Mexico and most of Latin America is higher HDI than China and most of east Asia (Japan and South Korea are "very high" of course). And two South American nations Chile and Argentina are "very high" along with Australia and New Zealand.

The "high" HDI countries (esp. in the Middle east and Eastern Europe) should be quite developed and industrialized, but in cases like Mexico and Israel (the West Bank and Gaza Strip) there are large visible underclasses. Romania and Bulgaria joined the EU in 2007 and Croatia last year, they find themselves in the poorest rank of the EU-28. However, Greece has serious economic problems that some economists want to take down Greece's position as a "developed" country.
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: vdeane on March 26, 2014, 02:14:05 PM
It's worth noting that HDI is based more on infrastructure and social systems than whether a country is an economic powerhouse.

The original breakdown actually had nothing to do with economics:
-First world: US/Canada, NATO, and a few other allied countries
-Second World: USSR, Warsaw Pact, Soviet allies
-Third World: Everyone else

After the Cold War, we just dumped the second world countries into the third world category.
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: J N Winkler on April 02, 2014, 12:31:18 AM
After 1991, the former Second World became just "former Soviet bloc," since it didn't fall neatly into the First World/Third World categorization because of Communist economies' abnormal focus on industrialized primary production.

My personal criterion for distinguishing between highly developed countries and the rest is trustworthiness of tap water.  By that standard all of the Warsaw Pact countries in Europe (including Russia itself and European CIS countries) are highly developed.  I am less sure about CIS countries in Asia.  For that matter, South Africa counts as highly developed since it has potable tap water, while Mexico does not, although Mexico's per capita GDP (PPP) is about 50% higher than South Africa's.

I am not sure which country without safe tap water has the highest per capita GDP (PPP), but if I had to guess, it would be Equatorial Guinea.  That country is actually the poster child for the unreliability of per capita GDP (PPP) as a measure of human development, since it has a very high income Gini coefficient, infant mortality is through the roof, and less than half of the population has access to clean drinking water (whether through tap or not).  Equatorial Guinea has a per capita GDP (PPP) of about $27,000, behind the US at $52,000 but well ahead of Mexico ($15,000) and South Africa ($11,000).  If the question is narrowed further--which industrialized democracy with unsafe tap water has the highest per capita GDP (PPP)?--then Mexico and Turkey emerge as the leading candidates.  They may be emerging members of the safe tap water club, though--DF has been running ad campaigns to convince residents that the tap water is safe to drink, while in Turkey it depends on which city you are in (Istanbul has good tap water, Ankara does not).
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: english si on April 02, 2014, 07:21:44 AM
South Africa was among the most developed countries for whites and still-rich-for-Africa for non-whites under apartheid, but the de facto ANC single party state has basically caused a stagnation, even a regression. The country is more equal, but people are only as-rich, or poorer as they were 25/30 years ago. Given that almost everywhere else as grown economically in that time period, the country is relatively poorer. It was a country that was considered a NIC (newly industrialised country) in the 80s, and now is an LEDC.

JNW - 'safe tap water' is a bit of an interestingly complex issue. Certainly every Far Eastern international student I used to know used to ask for boiled water, as - for them - our tap water wasn't safe due to different bacteria in the tap water back home.
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: webfil on April 03, 2014, 11:43:35 PM
Quote from: english si on April 02, 2014, 07:21:44 AM
South Africa was among the most developed countries for whites and still-rich-for-Africa for non-whites under apartheid, but the de facto ANC single party state has basically caused a stagnation, even a regression. The country is more equal, but people are only as-rich, or poorer as they were 25/30 years ago. Given that almost everywhere else as grown economically in that time period, the country is relatively poorer. It was a country that was considered a NIC (newly industrialised country) in the 80s, and now is an LEDC.
Can you provide some evidence for what you are saying?
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: US 41 on April 08, 2014, 07:09:24 PM
Iran is now a third world country.
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: Stephane Dumas on April 08, 2014, 09:54:03 PM
Quote from: webfil on April 03, 2014, 11:43:35 PM

Can you provide some evidence for what you are saying?

There that video in French from Radio-Canada about the winners and the losers after the end of apartheid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03KNvIAZ9pY
also that French article from March 2013
http://www.monde-diplomatique.fr/2013/03/CESSOU/48842

The current president of South Africa, Jacob Zuma built a big building for his own need.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/03/31/south-africa-corruption-allegations/7118049/
http://www.news24.com/Elections/News/DAs-open-letter-to-SA-voters-20140408
http://www.bdlive.co.za/opinion/columnists/2014/04/07/apartheid-depravities-are-no-excuse-for-current-corruption

Nelson Mandela is spinning in his grave... :(
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: jakeroot on June 04, 2014, 04:37:16 PM
I was not aware that South Africa had any FHWA-series road signs:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fvk0ihJi.png&hash=cad94939620d63a27bdc675cb672166731dd3408)

I was always under the impression that DIN 1451 was the only font used.
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: english si on June 04, 2014, 05:36:40 PM
Quote from: webfil on April 03, 2014, 11:43:35 PMCan you provide some evidence for what you are saying?
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21564846-south-africa-sliding-downhill-while-much-rest-continent-clawing-its-way-up for instance. It's a well known truth, but as it's not politically correct, it tends to not be said.

I'm wrong - economic inequality has increased while the country since the ANC came to power.
I was wrong again - they are still an NIC, though their peers (became NICs about the same time) on that front have graduated (and South Africa has the 2nd lowest HDI of the NICs - beating India and drawing with Indonesia).

Unemployment has skyrocketed since 1994, when a brain drain started (declining quality of life being the number one reason for emigration) - unemployment was nearly 10% higher in 2000 than 1990, despite being under sanctions in 1990 and the global economy being much better in 2000. While South Africa is no Zimbabwe, and the ANC not Zanu-PF, it's still not a rosy picture.
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: agentsteel53 on June 04, 2014, 05:48:07 PM
Quote from: jake on June 04, 2014, 04:37:16 PM
I was not aware that South Africa had any FHWA-series road signs:

now I want to know if they ever used button copy.
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: jakeroot on June 04, 2014, 05:51:51 PM
Quote from: english si on June 04, 2014, 05:36:40 PM
Quote from: webfil on April 03, 2014, 11:43:35 PMCan you provide some evidence for what you are saying?
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21564846-south-africa-sliding-downhill-while-much-rest-continent-clawing-its-way-up for instance. It's a well known truth, but as it's not politically correct, it tends to not be said.

I'm wrong - economic inequality has increased while the country since the ANC came to power.
I was wrong again - they are still an NIC, though their peers (became NICs about the same time) on that front have graduated (and South Africa has the 2nd lowest HDI of the NICs - beating India and drawing with Indonesia).

Unemployment has skyrocketed since 1994, when a brain drain started (declining quality of life being the number one reason for emigration) - unemployment was nearly 10% higher in 2000 than 1990, despite being under sanctions in 1990 and the global economy being much better in 2000. While South Africa is no Zimbabwe, and the ANC not Zanu-PF, it's still not a rosy picture.

I know very little about South Africa, but the picture as painted by "The God's Must be Crazy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz04A_cgZMQ)" certainly make South Africa look pretty nice. Obviously with Apartheid it's not so great, but I'm really sad to hear things have somewhat gone to shit since then.




Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 04, 2014, 05:48:07 PM
Quote from: jake on June 04, 2014, 04:37:16 PM
I was not aware that South Africa had any FHWA-series road signs:

now I want to know if they ever used button copy.

I would say "no" because only the US used button copy, but I'm guessing that's not true?
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: agentsteel53 on June 04, 2014, 06:52:12 PM
Quote from: jake on June 04, 2014, 05:51:51 PM
I would say "no" because only the US used button copy, but I'm guessing that's not true?

Canada has used it.  I've seen it in Mexico as well, but no sign stands out as being a definitive highway department job - it seems to be an assorted lot of locals who all independently have found just enough button elements.
Title: South Africa routes
Post by: Alps on July 13, 2014, 08:14:44 PM

Accidentally stumbled on this document while looking for information on the new exit numbers around Messina (wow, two countries in one post!):


South African Numbered Route Description and Destination Analysis (http://www.transport.gov.za/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=5qOHvOI4KuY%3D&tabid=333&mid=2266)
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: jakeroot on September 19, 2019, 02:36:00 PM
Really dusting off this thread!

SANRAL (the South African roads agency) posted a video to their YouTube page a few months ago showing some pretty cool animations of before/after work of several construction projects across the country. The video is mostly an advert, as SANRAL's approval rating seems to have dropped off pretty dramatically following the E-toll debacle:

The video shows several clips of the N7 upgrade, the Mount Edgecombe interchange, the Msikaba Bridge, the William Nicol SPUI, and the Polokwane ring road:

https://youtu.be/xx_Gop0EajI
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: X99 on September 24, 2019, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Truvelo on January 27, 2010, 08:26:59 AM
What I like is the section in the middle of Cape Town with the unfinished flyovers :cool:
And the section it was supposed to connect to that's now the top floor of a parking garage.
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: Takumi on October 28, 2022, 02:34:21 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on June 04, 2014, 04:37:16 PM
I was not aware that South Africa had any FHWA-series road signs:
I was always under the impression that DIN 1451 was the only font used.

Major bump, but I'm in South Africa at the moment and there are still a few scattered signs with FHWA series in very rural areas.
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: J N Winkler on October 28, 2022, 03:02:46 AM
Quote from: Takumi on October 28, 2022, 02:34:21 AMMajor bump, but I'm in South Africa at the moment and there are still a few scattered signs with FHWA series in very rural areas.

Are there still any regulatory or warning signs with red rims, blue background, and white digits/symbols?
Title: Re: South Africa freeways
Post by: Takumi on October 28, 2022, 06:27:55 AM
Quote from: J N Winkler on October 28, 2022, 03:02:46 AM
Quote from: Takumi on October 28, 2022, 02:34:21 AMMajor bump, but I'm in South Africa at the moment and there are still a few scattered signs with FHWA series in very rural areas.

Are there still any regulatory or warning signs with red rims, blue background, and white digits/symbols?
I haven't seen any, but I have seen some signs that are noticeably older, and a few places where Polokwane is still signed as Pietersburg.