For anyone who has taken the CTA or rode the express bus down the Kennedy (I-90) from O'Hare should know this will help a great deal.
For those who have used the Heathrow Express to Paddington in London, you would say, what took so long?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/politics/ct-met-ohare-high-speed-transit-elon-musk-rahm-emanuel-20180614-story.html (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/politics/ct-met-ohare-high-speed-transit-elon-musk-rahm-emanuel-20180614-story.html)
Express bus running down the Kennedy from O'Hare? Hasn't been one of those since the old O'Harexpress bus to Jefferson Park, before the Blue Line extension opened.
It seems like it would be much simpler to have frequent and consistent service from O'Hare Transfer, although I understand the freight railroad that owns those tracks is the impediment.
Quote from: abefroman329 on June 14, 2018, 08:43:18 PM
Express bus running down the Kennedy from O'Hare? Hasn't been one of those since the old O'Harexpress bus to Jefferson Park, before the Blue Line extension opened.
It seems like it would be much simpler to have frequent and consistent service from O'Hare Transfer, although I understand the freight railroad that owns those tracks is the impediment.
Not the CTA bus, thats long gone. I am talking about all the bus charters. I didnt even mention the cabs, ubers and others that pick up at OHare like Loop hotels.
Being as it's Elon Musk, it'll be over budget and super late.
CTA already has a heavy rail rapid transit line between the Loop and ORD.
The extension to ORD was built fairly recently, I think 1985.
Quote from: Beltway on June 15, 2018, 07:38:46 AM
CTA already has a heavy rail rapid transit line between the Loop and ORD.
The extension to ORD was built fairly recently, I think 1985.
But it's a long trip, and not an easy one to make with a lot of luggage.
Quote from: Brandon on June 15, 2018, 07:12:07 AM
Being as it's Elon Musk, it'll be over budget and super late.
Are we talking about practically every major transportation project in the nation? What about the 2nd Street subway? Alaskan Way Tunnel?
Quote from: seicer on June 15, 2018, 08:05:01 AM
Quote from: Brandon on June 15, 2018, 07:12:07 AM
Being as it's Elon Musk, it'll be over budget and super late.
Are we talking about practically every major transportation project in the nation? What about the 2nd Street subway? Alaskan Way Tunnel?
I'm talking about his track record. See: Tesla Model 3 for more.
Quote from: abefroman329 on June 15, 2018, 07:54:40 AM
Quote from: Beltway on June 15, 2018, 07:38:46 AM
CTA already has a heavy rail rapid transit line between the Loop and ORD.
The extension to ORD was built fairly recently, I think 1985.
But it's a long trip, and not an easy one to make with a lot of luggage.
They could add express trains with ample baggage facilities. Granted it would take new and special operational procedures to allow express trains to pass local trains.
They need to conduct ridership studies. If the demand is about 5,000 riders per day (a likely figure based on others), then the Musk proposal would be a boondoggle.
Kinda was hoping for a high speed monorail...
Doesn't this belong in the Mass Transit forum? :-)
Quote from: Rick Powell on June 15, 2018, 10:18:52 AM
Doesn't this belong in the Mass Transit forum? :-)
That's what I was thinking... :)
this is a scam, there is no way he can build this tunnel that cheap.
Quote from: Rick Powell on June 15, 2018, 10:18:52 AM
Doesn't this belong in the Mass Transit forum? :-)
I was thinking only about impacts to I-90/I-94 in this context.
It takes about 45 minutes to get from O'Hare to the Loop on the Blue Line. I really don't see how anything is going to be any quicker and if memory serves me there aren't any express tracks on the Blue Line so to run express trains on the Blue Line the line would need a complete makeover.
It only takes about 20 minutes to get to the Loop from Midway on the Orange Line. I hate flying into O'Hare.
Quote from: Flint1979 on July 14, 2018, 07:00:39 PM
It takes about 45 minutes to get from O'Hare to the Loop on the Blue Line. I really don't see how anything is going to be any quicker and if memory serves me there aren't any express tracks on the Blue Line so to run express trains on the Blue Line the line would need a complete makeover.
It only takes about 20 minutes to get to the Loop from Midway on the Orange Line. I hate flying into O'Hare.
There is room to add an 3rd track in a few places / a few cross overs.
I wonder why they can't just build a rail line there? It could be the new express line for the Blue Line. Or they could just upgrade the tracks along that corridor and also build faster trains.
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on July 14, 2018, 09:10:01 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on July 14, 2018, 07:00:39 PM
It takes about 45 minutes to get from O'Hare to the Loop on the Blue Line. I really don't see how anything is going to be any quicker and if memory serves me there aren't any express tracks on the Blue Line so to run express trains on the Blue Line the line would need a complete makeover.
It only takes about 20 minutes to get to the Loop from Midway on the Orange Line. I hate flying into O'Hare.
There is room to add an 3rd track in a few places / a few cross overs.
That's the portion of the Blue Line that runs in the median of the Eisenhower that has room for a third (and, in some areas, fourth) track. The portion that runs in the median of the Kennedy absolutely does not. Running express trains on a two-track line requires absolute precision, and would likely mean delays for local trains. There's a reason there's a giant cavern under Block 37 where a terminal for express trains to O'Hare and Midway should be: The plans for those services involved using the Blue Line to O'Hare, and the Red and Orange Lines to Midway, and that was a pipe dream.
To me it seems like the simplest solution would be to upgrade the current Metra service to O'Hare Transfer. It's going to get much easier to get to the terminals once they complete the extension of the people mover, and you could run the trains into Union Station, where passengers can connect to Metra and Amtrak trains that go all over the region and the country.
Quote from: MantyMadTown on August 17, 2018, 12:27:28 AM
I wonder why they can't just build a rail line there? It could be the new express line for the Blue Line. Or they could just upgrade the tracks along that corridor and also build faster trains.
Because the cost is too high. Most people flying into O'Hare don't go to the Loop anyway. And if they do, they usually take a cab.
Quote from: Brandon on June 15, 2018, 09:27:14 AM
Quote from: seicer on June 15, 2018, 08:05:01 AM
Quote from: Brandon on June 15, 2018, 07:12:07 AM
Being as it's Elon Musk, it'll be over budget and super late.
Are we talking about practically every major transportation project in the nation? What about the 2nd Street subway? Alaskan Way Tunnel?
I'm talking about his track record. See: Tesla Model 3 for more.
Realistically, it's typical for an all-new vehicle to take 5 years from pen to production.
Flawed timelines and media over-salivation shouldn't count against him, especially since he works with a smaller budget than the rest of the automotive establishment (although their collective involvement in space travel is much more limited).
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 17, 2018, 09:17:44 AM
Quote from: MantyMadTown on August 17, 2018, 12:27:28 AM
I wonder why they can't just build a rail line there? It could be the new express line for the Blue Line. Or they could just upgrade the tracks along that corridor and also build faster trains.
Because the cost is too high. Most people flying into O'Hare don't go to the Loop anyway. And if they do, they usually take a cab.
The main transit hubs of Chicago are in the Loop. I think all of Chicago's central bus terminals as well as Amtrak's Union Station are there. There are many people traveling between O'Hare and the Loop for exactly such reason. Not to mention taking a cab is too expensive for a lot of people. Last time I checked it cost upwards of $60-70 for one way fare. I wouldn't want to take an Uber/Lyft either. Which is why we should upgrade our transit between the Loop and O'Hare.
Quote from: MantyMadTown on August 18, 2018, 02:13:24 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 17, 2018, 09:17:44 AM
Quote from: MantyMadTown on August 17, 2018, 12:27:28 AM
I wonder why they can't just build a rail line there? It could be the new express line for the Blue Line. Or they could just upgrade the tracks along that corridor and also build faster trains.
Because the cost is too high. Most people flying into O'Hare don't go to the Loop anyway. And if they do, they usually take a cab.
The main transit hubs of Chicago are in the Loop. I think all of Chicago's central bus terminals as well as Amtrak's Union Station are there. There are many people traveling between O'Hare and the Loop for exactly such reason. Not to mention taking a cab is too expensive for a lot of people. Last time I checked it cost upwards of $60-70 for one way fare. I wouldn't want to take an Uber/Lyft either. Which is why we should upgrade our transit between the Loop and O'Hare.
Again, most people flying into O'Hare are not headed for the loop. And you don't have to head to the loop to access other transit services.
And while a cab might be expensive, so would building an express line. Which apparently you would have someone else subsidize because it's true cost would dwarf a cab ride.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 18, 2018, 12:37:42 PM
Quote from: MantyMadTown on August 18, 2018, 02:13:24 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 17, 2018, 09:17:44 AM
Quote from: MantyMadTown on August 17, 2018, 12:27:28 AM
I wonder why they can't just build a rail line there? It could be the new express line for the Blue Line. Or they could just upgrade the tracks along that corridor and also build faster trains.
Because the cost is too high. Most people flying into O'Hare don't go to the Loop anyway. And if they do, they usually take a cab.
The main transit hubs of Chicago are in the Loop. I think all of Chicago's central bus terminals as well as Amtrak's Union Station are there. There are many people traveling between O'Hare and the Loop for exactly such reason. Not to mention taking a cab is too expensive for a lot of people. Last time I checked it cost upwards of $60-70 for one way fare. I wouldn't want to take an Uber/Lyft either. Which is why we should upgrade our transit between the Loop and O'Hare.
Again, most people flying into O'Hare are not headed for the loop. And you don't have to head to the loop to access other transit services.
And while a cab might be expensive, so would building an express line. Which apparently you would have someone else subsidize because it's true cost would dwarf a cab ride.
Not everyone flying to Heathrow is going to London, but they still built the Heathrow Express to Paddington Station.
Not everyone flying to Orlando is going to go to Miami, but they are still building Brightline.
They can't rebuild or raise new express lanes on I-90/94. It is pretty much locked from 630AM until 10AM. (the same after 4PM)
So going underground makes a lot of sense.
Quote from: edwaleni on August 25, 2018, 11:29:06 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 18, 2018, 12:37:42 PM
Quote from: MantyMadTown on August 18, 2018, 02:13:24 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 17, 2018, 09:17:44 AM
Quote from: MantyMadTown on August 17, 2018, 12:27:28 AM
I wonder why they can't just build a rail line there? It could be the new express line for the Blue Line. Or they could just upgrade the tracks along that corridor and also build faster trains.
Because the cost is too high. Most people flying into O'Hare don't go to the Loop anyway. And if they do, they usually take a cab.
The main transit hubs of Chicago are in the Loop. I think all of Chicago's central bus terminals as well as Amtrak's Union Station are there. There are many people traveling between O'Hare and the Loop for exactly such reason. Not to mention taking a cab is too expensive for a lot of people. Last time I checked it cost upwards of $60-70 for one way fare. I wouldn't want to take an Uber/Lyft either. Which is why we should upgrade our transit between the Loop and O'Hare.
Again, most people flying into O'Hare are not headed for the loop. And you don't have to head to the loop to access other transit services.
And while a cab might be expensive, so would building an express line. Which apparently you would have someone else subsidize because it's true cost would dwarf a cab ride.
Not everyone flying to Heathrow is going to London, but they still built the Heathrow Express to Paddington Station.
Not everyone flying to Orlando is going to go to Miami, but they are still building Brightline.
They can't rebuild or raise new express lanes on I-90/94. It is pretty much locked from 630AM until 10AM. (the same after 4PM)
So going underground makes a lot of sense.
Thank you. That's the point I was trying to make.
I know not everyone flying into a major airport is going to the center city, but transit should still be there for those that are.
Quote from: edwaleni on August 25, 2018, 11:29:06 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 18, 2018, 12:37:42 PM
Quote from: MantyMadTown on August 18, 2018, 02:13:24 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 17, 2018, 09:17:44 AM
Quote from: MantyMadTown on August 17, 2018, 12:27:28 AM
I wonder why they can't just build a rail line there? It could be the new express line for the Blue Line. Or they could just upgrade the tracks along that corridor and also build faster trains.
Because the cost is too high. Most people flying into O'Hare don't go to the Loop anyway. And if they do, they usually take a cab.
The main transit hubs of Chicago are in the Loop. I think all of Chicago's central bus terminals as well as Amtrak's Union Station are there. There are many people traveling between O'Hare and the Loop for exactly such reason. Not to mention taking a cab is too expensive for a lot of people. Last time I checked it cost upwards of $60-70 for one way fare. I wouldn't want to take an Uber/Lyft either. Which is why we should upgrade our transit between the Loop and O'Hare.
Again, most people flying into O'Hare are not headed for the loop. And you don't have to head to the loop to access other transit services.
And while a cab might be expensive, so would building an express line. Which apparently you would have someone else subsidize because it's true cost would dwarf a cab ride.
Not everyone flying to Heathrow is going to London, but they still built the Heathrow Express to Paddington Station.
Not everyone flying to Orlando is going to go to Miami, but they are still building Brightline.
They can't rebuild or raise new express lanes on I-90/94. It is pretty much locked from 630AM until 10AM. (the same after 4PM)
So going underground makes a lot of sense.
Yep - I flew to O'Hare, but I was going to Milwaukee. ;)
Quote from: edwaleni on August 25, 2018, 11:29:06 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 18, 2018, 12:37:42 PM
Quote from: MantyMadTown on August 18, 2018, 02:13:24 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 17, 2018, 09:17:44 AM
Quote from: MantyMadTown on August 17, 2018, 12:27:28 AM
I wonder why they can't just build a rail line there? It could be the new express line for the Blue Line. Or they could just upgrade the tracks along that corridor and also build faster trains.
Because the cost is too high. Most people flying into O'Hare don't go to the Loop anyway. And if they do, they usually take a cab.
The main transit hubs of Chicago are in the Loop. I think all of Chicago's central bus terminals as well as Amtrak's Union Station are there. There are many people traveling between O'Hare and the Loop for exactly such reason. Not to mention taking a cab is too expensive for a lot of people. Last time I checked it cost upwards of $60-70 for one way fare. I wouldn't want to take an Uber/Lyft either. Which is why we should upgrade our transit between the Loop and O'Hare.
Again, most people flying into O'Hare are not headed for the loop. And you don't have to head to the loop to access other transit services.
And while a cab might be expensive, so would building an express line. Which apparently you would have someone else subsidize because it's true cost would dwarf a cab ride.
Not everyone flying to Heathrow is going to London, but they still built the Heathrow Express to Paddington Station.
Not everyone flying to Orlando is going to go to Miami, but they are still building Brightline.
They can't rebuild or raise new express lanes on I-90/94. It is pretty much locked from 630AM until 10AM. (the same after 4PM)
So going underground makes a lot of sense.
Only if it can be done economically. So far that doesn't seem to be the case.
it's a scam, just like hyperloop.
Quote from: silverback1065 on August 27, 2018, 07:34:55 AM
it's a scam, just like hyperloop.
Yeah I'm not sure "scam" is the word I would use, but I have no idea why people think Musk is some sort of savant. SpaceX profit is slim and woefully behind competitors like Boeing. Tesla is losing money hand over fist. Nothing else is beyond theoretical.
My person theory is that if his name was something like "Gene Schmidt" and had a midwestern accent, people would think he's a crackpot.
Hyperloop is a scam due to physics and other practical limitations. This idea is only a scam because the cost projections are bullshit.
I still think this doesn't rise to the level of a scam. When my mom's best friend's father had Alzheimer's and their local car dealership took advantage of it by selling him a new car once a week, that was a scam. This is just proof that a fool and his money never should've gotten together in the first place.
Quote from: silverback1065 on August 27, 2018, 10:21:04 AM
Hyperloop is a scam due to physics and other practical limitations. This idea is only a scam because the cost projections are bullshit.
The physics are not a scam, because they don't represent physical laws incorrectly.
Cost projections are something else. if you fear they have been severely under estimated, I can name a few bridges, tunnels and highways in the US that were terribly under estimated, but not considered scams.
Quote from: edwaleni on August 27, 2018, 11:33:15 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on August 27, 2018, 10:21:04 AM
Hyperloop is a scam due to physics and other practical limitations. This idea is only a scam because the cost projections are bullshit.
The physics are not a scam, because they don't represent physical laws incorrectly.
Cost projections are something else. if you fear they have been severely under estimated, I can name a few bridges, tunnels and highways in the US that were terribly under estimated, but not considered scams.
they actually are and do, look it up.
Quote from: silverback1065 on August 28, 2018, 09:05:42 AM
Quote from: edwaleni on August 27, 2018, 11:33:15 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on August 27, 2018, 10:21:04 AM
Hyperloop is a scam due to physics and other practical limitations. This idea is only a scam because the cost projections are bullshit.
The physics are not a scam, because they don't represent physical laws incorrectly.
Cost projections are something else. if you fear they have been severely under estimated, I can name a few bridges, tunnels and highways in the US that were terribly under estimated, but not considered scams.
they actually are and do, look it up.
I did. Here is the response. They don't questions the physics supporting it. They question the economics, social orders and resources required to make it work.
https://www.quora.com/Is-hyperloop-even-possible (https://www.quora.com/Is-hyperloop-even-possible)
Yes, absolutely.
The name is fancy but the idea itself is centuries old, originally sketched out in 1799. The whole concept is about making train travel faster by removing the two primary forces acting against the vehicle: air resistance and track friction.
Air resistance is easily solved by placing the train in a tunnel and pumping out all the air to create a vacuum. This leaves track friction as the major problem, which was e solved by using a high-pressure jet of air at the rear to raise and push the train capsule forward.
This is exactly what powers the pneumatic tube systems that deliver mail and packages, as seen in large buildings like factories, banks, hospitals and warehouses:
(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-a4440eccaf9401b5974a5ff6a36e82cd)
Unfortunately, this is hard to use with heavy vehicles and multiple capsules moving at once, but we actually have a much better modern alternative called MagLev technology. The name stands for magnetic levitation, and the concept uses powerful electromagnets and linear induction electric motors to let the train hover and move over the track without ever touching anything, and without any air involved. This is already being used today for quick routes like the Shanghai SMT line.
So it turns out we already have all the necessary technology to create a train system that can reach 1000s of mph to become the fastest mode of commercial travel available - but then why haven't we built it yet?
It's because the real forces that govern projects like this are engineering practicality and economic feasibility.
Building something so massive, high-tech, and with such demanding maintenance and energy requirements, is just too prohibitively expensive for even the richest countries today.
Tunnels (or above ground tubes) are extremely costly and take years just to plan, especially for any major distance beyond a single city. Maintaining a vacuum with an airtight seal over long distances is incredibly challenging, and the air pumps and maglev track will be very power-hungry. There are also many logistical challenges, like how to keep up the speed while stopping at all the locations that people would want to go to, and dealing with inevitable real-world scenarios like crashes, breakdowns, and attacks. The lack of an easy fail-safe from power loss or track failure also means perfect reliability is crucial, further increasing costs exponentially.
There are a great many things we can build if we had no economic limitations, but unfortunately the world just isn't so simple and we'll need to make some big advances in society, politics, energy efficiency and general engineering practices to build something like a vacuum train (or "hyperloop" as Elon likes to call it). It's definitely real technology, but just not realistic enough for our world today.