By rural, I mean truly rural, not just non-urban towns and cities.
Are there any glaring or recurring examples, near national parks or on other heavily traveled corridors? If so, has mitigation been considered and in what form?
I-15 south from Las Vegas comes to mind, especially on a Sunday. I can't think of anywhere else where you can regularly find stop and go traffic in literally the middle of the desert. Sundays going south are the worst but backups out there on other days of the week in both directions certainly aren't unheard of.
NV widened it to six lanes I believe about a decade ago but, at least from an outsider's perspective, CA really doesn't have any reason to do that and make it easier for people to go spend their weekend and money in another state. I know they did widen it from Barstow to Victorville some time ago, but before Barstow, I imagine their motivation for widespread changes is pretty low.
Prior to the Newberg Dundee bypass, the section between Newberg and Dundee was rated the 5th worst in Oregon ahead of I-205 at Powell and I-84.
Now it has been reduced to just Dundee to Lafayette and traffic is still moving on that stretch. It's the busiest 2 lane road in Oregon outside of a city (23,000 AADT), and outside of the passing lane section, it isn't uncommon for traffic to slow to 25 or 20 through there. This doesn't happen daily, generally on Fridays. Phase 3 of said bypass will fix this.
I-5 between exit 228 and 282 can get clogged up in football season, especially when both the ducks and beavers play. According to Rep. Bill Post, and Ron Noble (there was one other I forgot his name though), the original version of the transportation package included funding to widen I-5 to 6 lanes between exit 252 and 188 but it was nixed along with other "megaprojects." It never made it out of private draft.
US 26 has a ski season bottleneck as it enters the MT Hood National Forest. 26 is 2 lanes in each direction between Gresham and mp 42 (Rhododendron) then it drops to 1 lane each way for 4 miles, then goes to 2 lanes EB (towards MT Hood) and 1 lane WB for about 7 miles. Before 10AM, the point where it drops to 1 lane each way is where the bottleneck location is. It also slows down during that narrow stretch but speeds back up on the climb. After the 2nd drop though, 2 of the 3 major ski resorts are past, so that doesn't have a bottleneck.
LG-TP260
I visited the 2nd-least populous state and got in 3 long awful traffic jams in one day. Does Vermont have a road department at all?
I don't know if it's necessarily rural, but it's a mountain pass so I think it could count (though it's an hour from Seattle).
WA-18 over Tiger Mountain regularly has some pretty hideous traffic jams on either side of it. 18 is a freeway right up until the climb to the peak, and the other side is an interchange with I-90. Undoubtedly, the jams are the result of the freeway just ending on either side of the mountain.
Much of the traffic is Snoqualmie (I-90) Pass traffic coming to and from points south of Seattle, since staying on I-90 to the 405 or 5 can be suicide any time of the day.
I-5 between CA-99 and I-580 is a notorious example for being only two lanes each way and a significant truck corridor, so you routinely have 80 mph+ cars competing against 55 mph trucks (often passing one another and blocking both lanes).
I can't think of any year-round examples for Minnesota, but I-35 between the Twin Cities and Duluth and I-94 between the Twin Cities and St. Cloud is miserable on summer weekends when lanes are closed for construction projects. An Upper Midwest special is shutting down one side of the road and using the other carriageway as a two-lane road while the closed side is reconstructed.
I-70 through the Rockies is notorious for this.
CA 41 north of Oakhurst to Yosemite gets a surprisingly large amount of traffic. The road is a pleasure to drive with no traffic and absolute hell during a busy tourist weekend. It doesn't help that 41 north of Oakhurst essentially doesn't have a single straight stretch that is very long.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 26, 2018, 05:55:28 PM
I-35 between the Twin Cities and Duluth ... is miserable on summer weekends when lanes are closed for construction projects.
Yeah, I'll agree with that. Fortunately, on our return trip from Des Moines a few weeks ago, when northbound I-35 was reduced to one lane near Faribault, we took an alternate route which saved (according to Google Maps) a full 15 minutes.
QuoteAn Upper Midwest special is shutting down one side of the road and using the other carriageway as a two-lane road while the closed side is reconstructed.
I've noticed that in North Dakota and Minnesota, but wasn't sure if it was done elsewhere. Seems like a practice that Western states in general would use. It's functionally a super-two, but with no passing allowed.
While not unheard of in New York (2016 reconstruction of I-390 south of Dansville comes to mind), when it happens, the open side is
always restriped and divided with a jersey barrier, providing an actual median and left shoulders at the expense of standard-width right shoulders.
Quote from: webny99 on July 26, 2018, 08:53:16 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 26, 2018, 05:55:28 PM
I-35 between the Twin Cities and Duluth ... is miserable on summer weekends when lanes are closed for construction projects.
Yeah, I'll agree with that. Fortunately, on our return trip from Des Moines a few weeks ago, when northbound I-35 was reduced to one lane near Faribault, we took an alternate route which saved (according to Google Maps) a full 15 minutes.
QuoteAn Upper Midwest special is shutting down one side of the road and using the other carriageway as a two-lane road while the closed side is reconstructed.
I've noticed that in North Dakota and Minnesota, but wasn't sure if it was done elsewhere. Seems like a practice that Western states in general would use. It's functionally a super-two, but with no passing allowed.
Idaho did this to I-84 in the Snake River Valley back in 2004 while they were rebuilding the freeway. Super-2'd the eastbound carriageway, slapped down thin plastic cones on the double-yellow line, rebuilt the other carriageway, then reversed it. You still can see the cross over points between Boise and Mountain Home.
I was stuck in a traffic jam in the middle of nowhere, Delaware, 20 years ago. But that was on a holiday weekend.
Quote from: Bickendan on July 26, 2018, 09:27:00 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 26, 2018, 08:53:16 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 26, 2018, 05:55:28 PM
I-35 between the Twin Cities and Duluth ... is miserable on summer weekends when lanes are closed for construction projects.
Yeah, I'll agree with that. Fortunately, on our return trip from Des Moines a few weeks ago, when northbound I-35 was reduced to one lane near Faribault, we took an alternate route which saved (according to Google Maps) a full 15 minutes.
QuoteAn Upper Midwest special is shutting down one side of the road and using the other carriageway as a two-lane road while the closed side is reconstructed.
I've noticed that in North Dakota and Minnesota, but wasn't sure if it was done elsewhere. Seems like a practice that Western states in general would use. It's functionally a super-two, but with no passing allowed.
Idaho did this to I-84 in the Snake River Valley back in 2004 while they were rebuilding the freeway. Super-2'd the eastbound carriageway, slapped down thin plastic cones on the double-yellow line, rebuilt the other carriageway, then reversed it. You still can see the cross over points between Boise and Mountain Home.
Same thing is happening right now on I-49 south of Harrisonville, MO. Traffic is using the southbound lanes while the northbound side is being worked on.
I-70 in Missouri, particularly the eastbound climb out of the Loutre River valley (which of course was uncongestioned when the Streetview vehicle went through) (https://goo.gl/maps/5EWoxYFTkMo).
Quote from: Bickendan on July 26, 2018, 09:27:00 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 26, 2018, 08:53:16 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 26, 2018, 05:55:28 PM
I-35 between the Twin Cities and Duluth ... is miserable on summer weekends when lanes are closed for construction projects.
Yeah, I'll agree with that. Fortunately, on our return trip from Des Moines a few weeks ago, when northbound I-35 was reduced to one lane near Faribault, we took an alternate route which saved (according to Google Maps) a full 15 minutes.
QuoteAn Upper Midwest special is shutting down one side of the road and using the other carriageway as a two-lane road while the closed side is reconstructed.
I've noticed that in North Dakota and Minnesota, but wasn't sure if it was done elsewhere. Seems like a practice that Western states in general would use. It's functionally a super-two, but with no passing allowed.
Idaho did this to I-84 in the Snake River Valley back in 2004 while they were rebuilding the freeway. Super-2'd the eastbound carriageway, slapped down thin plastic cones on the double-yellow line, rebuilt the other carriageway, then reversed it. You still can see the cross over points between Boise and Mountain Home.
This is common in the west, for example when UDOT fixed the US 40 bridges over UT 248 (crossover points here (https://goo.gl/maps/qLdXUUxy4h62) and here (https://goo.gl/maps/Cahu2tBP5x72)).
I remember when I had my learner's permit, I was driving with my mom on I-80 in Wyoming at night in the rain, and there was a long 2-lane portion (maybe 10 miles). I was keeping as far right as possible, understandably afraid of the trucks coming at 60+mph in the oncoming lane, and my mom was telling me to drive further left in the lane. As soon as the construction zone ended, I took the next exit and my mom drove the rest of the way while I slept. There was no way anyone was getting me to drive any more after that.
Quote from: Bickendan on July 26, 2018, 09:27:00 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 26, 2018, 08:53:16 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 26, 2018, 05:55:28 PM
I-35 between the Twin Cities and Duluth ... is miserable on summer weekends when lanes are closed for construction projects.
Yeah, I'll agree with that. Fortunately, on our return trip from Des Moines a few weeks ago, when northbound I-35 was reduced to one lane near Faribault, we took an alternate route which saved (according to Google Maps) a full 15 minutes.
QuoteAn Upper Midwest special is shutting down one side of the road and using the other carriageway as a two-lane road while the closed side is reconstructed.
I've noticed that in North Dakota and Minnesota, but wasn't sure if it was done elsewhere. Seems like a practice that Western states in general would use. It's functionally a super-two, but with no passing allowed.
Idaho did this to I-84 in the Snake River Valley back in 2004 while they were rebuilding the freeway. Super-2'd the eastbound carriageway, slapped down thin plastic cones on the double-yellow line, rebuilt the other carriageway, then reversed it. You still can see the cross over points between Boise and Mountain Home.
Heck, Idaho did it this year while repaving I-84 between Oregon and Caldwell! Montana also does it as a matter of course.
Quote from: corco on July 26, 2018, 10:23:29 PM
Quote from: Bickendan on July 26, 2018, 09:27:00 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 26, 2018, 08:53:16 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 26, 2018, 05:55:28 PM
I-35 between the Twin Cities and Duluth ... is miserable on summer weekends when lanes are closed for construction projects.
Yeah, I'll agree with that. Fortunately, on our return trip from Des Moines a few weeks ago, when northbound I-35 was reduced to one lane near Faribault, we took an alternate route which saved (according to Google Maps) a full 15 minutes.
QuoteAn Upper Midwest special is shutting down one side of the road and using the other carriageway as a two-lane road while the closed side is reconstructed.
I've noticed that in North Dakota and Minnesota, but wasn't sure if it was done elsewhere. Seems like a practice that Western states in general would use. It's functionally a super-two, but with no passing allowed.
Idaho did this to I-84 in the Snake River Valley back in 2004 while they were rebuilding the freeway. Super-2'd the eastbound carriageway, slapped down thin plastic cones on the double-yellow line, rebuilt the other carriageway, then reversed it. You still can see the cross over points between Boise and Mountain Home.
Heck, Idaho did it this year while repaving I-84 between Oregon and Caldwell! Montana also does it as a matter of course.
Don't think this is unique to any part of the country. At least it shouldn't be, it's the best way to do MOT for interstate reconstruction in my opinion.
Quote from: corco on July 26, 2018, 10:23:29 PM
Quote from: Bickendan on July 26, 2018, 09:27:00 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 26, 2018, 08:53:16 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 26, 2018, 05:55:28 PM
I-35 between the Twin Cities and Duluth ... is miserable on summer weekends when lanes are closed for construction projects.
Yeah, I'll agree with that. Fortunately, on our return trip from Des Moines a few weeks ago, when northbound I-35 was reduced to one lane near Faribault, we took an alternate route which saved (according to Google Maps) a full 15 minutes.
QuoteAn Upper Midwest special is shutting down one side of the road and using the other carriageway as a two-lane road while the closed side is reconstructed.
I've noticed that in North Dakota and Minnesota, but wasn't sure if it was done elsewhere. Seems like a practice that Western states in general would use. It's functionally a super-two, but with no passing allowed.
Idaho did this to I-84 in the Snake River Valley back in 2004 while they were rebuilding the freeway. Super-2'd the eastbound carriageway, slapped down thin plastic cones on the double-yellow line, rebuilt the other carriageway, then reversed it. You still can see the cross over points between Boise and Mountain Home.
Heck, Idaho did it this year while repaving I-84 between Oregon and Caldwell! Montana also does it as a matter of course.
NY does it all the time. Every time I-88 has had a major bridge replacement/reconstruction in the past 15 or so years, I-390 had a long section of this for the previous 2 summers, happened a few times on I-86/NY 17. NYSTA does NOT do it, but they also maintain 4 lanes through every work zone on temporary pavement.
As far as congested rural roads, NY 73 in the Adirondacks and NY 23A in the Catskills are big ones. US 219 in Cattaraugus County, NY and US 11 in northern New York also come to mind.
I know I-81 is pretty heavily trafficked, so I wouldn't be surprised if it gets backed-up a fair amount, even in rural areas.
And I know I-65 across Alabama as a whole is pretty busy, so whenever there's an accident anywhere, traffic along that side will slow to a crawl, if not stop entirely.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 26, 2018, 05:55:28 PM
I can't think of any year-round examples for Minnesota, but I-35 between the Twin Cities and Duluth and I-94 between the Twin Cities and St. Cloud is miserable on summer weekends when lanes are closed for construction projects. An Upper Midwest special is shutting down one side of the road and using the other carriageway as a two-lane road while the closed side is reconstructed.
Wisconsin just did that with I-94 a couple years ago between Tomah and Eau Claire
Quote from: cl94 on July 26, 2018, 11:52:17 PM
QuoteAn Upper Midwest special is shutting down one side of the road and using the other carriageway as a two-lane road while the closed side is reconstructed.
NY does it all the time. Every time I-88 has had a major bridge replacement/reconstruction in the past 15 or so years, I-390 had a long section of this for the previous 2 summers, happened a few times on I-86/NY 17.
As I mentioned above, though, when western states do this, the open side is basically an undivided super-two (with no passing allowed).What NY does is slightly different:
Quote from: webny99 on July 26, 2018, 08:53:16 PM
While not unheard of in New York, when it happens, the open side is always restriped and divided with a jersey barrier, providing an actual median and left shoulders at the expense of standard-width right shoulders.
Quote from: freebrickproductions on July 27, 2018, 03:13:42 AM
I know I-81 is pretty heavily trafficked, so I wouldn't be surprised if it gets backed-up a fair amount, even in rural areas.
PA is famous for closing lanes during peak travel season. The lane reductions on I-81 between Scranton and the PA line the past few years not only generated enormous backups, but lasted for the entire construction season. Much of the time there wasn't even any work going on, yet there was miles of stopped traffic.
Construction aside, I-81 flows quite well (better than the Thruway, IMO). I can only speak for sections in NY and PA; I've been on I-81 in Virginia just once and had no problems, though I've heard from others here that between trucks and terrain, it can be really bad.
Quote from: webny99 on July 27, 2018, 10:20:59 AM
Construction aside, I-81 flows quite well (better than the Thruway, IMO). I can only speak for sections in NY and PA; I've been on I-81 in Virginia just once and had no problems, though I've heard from others here that between trucks and terrain, it can be really bad.
I drove back and forth from Atlanta to DC a lot from 2007-2011, and I got so frustrated with truck-related congestion on I-81 that I quit using it, opting for a route via Greensboro using I-85 and US 29 instead.
Quote from: webny99 on July 27, 2018, 10:12:11 AM
Quote from: cl94 on July 26, 2018, 11:52:17 PM
QuoteAn Upper Midwest special is shutting down one side of the road and using the other carriageway as a two-lane road while the closed side is reconstructed.
NY does it all the time. Every time I-88 has had a major bridge replacement/reconstruction in the past 15 or so years, I-390 had a long section of this for the previous 2 summers, happened a few times on I-86/NY 17.
As I mentioned above, though, when western states do this, the open side is basically an undivided super-two (with no passing allowed).What NY does is slightly different:
Quote from: webny99 on July 26, 2018, 08:53:16 PM
While not unheard of in New York, when it happens, the open side is always restriped and divided with a jersey barrier, providing an actual median and left shoulders at the expense of standard-width right shoulders.
No, NY does not
always use a Jersey barrier. NYSDOT Regions 6 and 9 often go undivided. When I-390 was reconstructed in Summer 2016/17, it was undivided with two sets of double yellow lines. Several of I-88's reconstructions have done the same.
Quote from: cl94 on July 27, 2018, 12:04:12 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 27, 2018, 10:12:11 AM
Quote from: cl94 on July 26, 2018, 11:52:17 PM
QuoteAn Upper Midwest special is shutting down one side of the road and using the other carriageway as a two-lane road while the closed side is reconstructed.
NY does it all the time. Every time I-88 has had a major bridge replacement/reconstruction in the past 15 or so years, I-390 had a long section of this for the previous 2 summers, happened a few times on I-86/NY 17.
As I mentioned above, though, when western states do this, the open side is basically an undivided super-two (with no passing allowed).What NY does is slightly different:
Quote from: webny99 on July 26, 2018, 08:53:16 PM
While not unheard of in New York, when it happens, the open side is always restriped and divided with a jersey barrier, providing an actual median and left shoulders at the expense of standard-width right shoulders.
No, NY does not always use a Jersey barrier. NYSDOT Regions 6 and 9 often go undivided. When I-390 was reconstructed in Summer 2016/17, it was undivided with two sets of double yellow lines. Several of I-88's reconstructions have done the same.
... which qualifies as "restriped". And basically divided, too; there is a median, albeit an incredibly narrow one. Except for the possible absence of a jersey barrier (you might be right about I-390), "restriped and divided" isn't really an overstatement.
And it's still different from what's done out west, where they tend not to restripe at all, and just use the road exactly as is; no modifications for two-way traffic (except, in some cases, reflectors along existing white dashes).
I'm pretty sure it's only in California where paint is considered a "median".
Quote from: vdeane on July 27, 2018, 12:38:43 PM
I'm pretty sure it's only in California where paint is considered a "median".
Yeah, same.
And Jersey barriers were specified, NOT temporary striping or cones. Either way, it's an undivided roadway.
Quote from: cl94 on July 27, 2018, 01:01:44 PM
And Jersey barriers were specified
... and said specification was retracted.
US-113 south of Dover, despite being in the middle of nowhere, is always jam-packed on summer weekends as the beach traffic from Rehoboth, Lewes, and several other small resorts meet each other.
DE-1 between Milford and Lewes is also packed, where it downgrades from a highway to a surface road. The highway hasn't had an upgrade in 20 years and can't deal with all the tourist traffic being forced into one lane as it approaches US 9.
I-40 between Little Rock and Memphis is pretty damn rural and it's a perpetual convoy 24-7. C.W. McCall would be in heaven, except all the rigs are governed and there's no hammer down.
Contraflow (what everyone above is talking about) is not particularly common in Washington, but when it does occur, cones are often used to separate the directions (in lieu of re-striping). Although re-striping is not unusual.
In Sumner, WA, not that long ago, cones were used for some contraflow, but not throughout the length of the project. So two directions were divided by a single dashed white line. This isn't particularly common:
(https://i.imgur.com/ThclX6E.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/uNG3oOS.jpg)
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 26, 2018, 05:55:28 PM
I can't think of any year-round examples for Minnesota, but I-35 between the Twin Cities and Duluth and I-94 between the Twin Cities and St. Cloud is miserable on summer weekends when lanes are closed for construction projects. An Upper Midwest special is shutting down one side of the road and using the other carriageway as a two-lane road while the closed side is reconstructed.
There's two of them on I-35 south of the Twin Cities right now, and last Sunday they were absolutely miserable. I was completely stopped while approaching one of them for at least ten minutes. (I should've taken one of those "Alternate To" routes that are now marked! :-D)
Quote from: jakeroot on July 28, 2018, 03:12:41 AM
Contraflow (what everyone above is talking about) is not particularly common in Washington, but when it does occur, cones are often used to separate the directions (in lieu of re-striping). Although re-striping is not unusual.
In Sumner, WA, not that long ago, cones were used for some contraflow, but not throughout the length of the project. So two directions were divided by a single dashed white line. This isn't particularly common:
[[snip]]
Are you sure it's not the Swift truck that caused it? :-D
Axioms on rural congestion:
1) Rural highways have lower capacity than urban highways
2) Rural highways are almost by definition remote, and by result, there often be much less auxiliary capacity nearby
3) The rural auxiliary capacity (e.g.frontage roads or side roads) may be lower than urban auxiliary capacity.
4) Rural slowdowns often occur because of a major incident (e.g. train derailment, truck explosion) rather than urban volume.
5) Rural authorities may have less experience or planning with slowdowns, particularly if you have an incident (axiom 4).
Quote from: paulthemapguy on July 26, 2018, 03:06:29 PM
I visited the 2nd-least populous state and got in 3 long awful traffic jams in one day. Does Vermont have a road department at all?
From my visit through Vermont, I highly doubt it. Their two-lane roads suck majorly, and would it kill VTrans to have passing lanes? It would be nice to be able to pass the New Hampshire jackasses going 5-10 under the freaking underposted speed limit.
In SC along I-95 in Jasper County which is rural for SC. Do not know if that is rural by the OP, but it congests around Rigdeland and of course SC won't widen the roadway. Usually along the US 17 concurrency it gets thick with people heading to FL almost to a dead stop.
The thing is I-95 in general needs to be six lanes all the way from the Savanah River to Petersburg, VA, however from the GA Line to at least Walterboro, those in Columbia should be pushing to get at least that part of the interstate widened. Heck the fact GDOT widened their part of I-95 right up the SC Line (and partly into it due to the State Line being in the middle of the river bridge that also is completely at six lanes) you think SCDOT would get the hint.
Quote from: Brandon on July 28, 2018, 10:05:22 AM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on July 26, 2018, 03:06:29 PM
I visited the 2nd-least populous state and got in 3 long awful traffic jams in one day. Does Vermont have a road department at all?
From my visit through Vermont, I highly doubt it. Their two-lane roads suck majorly, and would it kill VTrans to have passing lanes? It would be nice to be able to pass the New Hampshire jackasses going 5-10 under the freaking underposted speed limit.
Amen.
Quote from: Rothman on July 28, 2018, 11:55:20 AM
Quote from: Brandon on July 28, 2018, 10:05:22 AM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on July 26, 2018, 03:06:29 PM
I visited the 2nd-least populous state and got in 3 long awful traffic jams in one day. Does Vermont have a road department at all?
From my visit through Vermont, I highly doubt it. Their two-lane roads suck majorly, and would it kill VTrans to have passing lanes? It would be nice to be able to pass the New Hampshire jackasses going 5-10 under the freaking underposted speed limit.
Amen.
Vermont's only four lane divided highways are all freeways. All the US and state routes really are pretty much two lane roads that just are given a number designations. In Vermont your rural off freeways are 50 mph while the interstates get 65 mph. Only the super two US 7 gets 55 and I believe the same road gets the only undivided non freeway roads in the state.
Quote from: roadman65 on July 28, 2018, 12:06:52 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 28, 2018, 11:55:20 AM
Quote from: Brandon on July 28, 2018, 10:05:22 AM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on July 26, 2018, 03:06:29 PM
I visited the 2nd-least populous state and got in 3 long awful traffic jams in one day. Does Vermont have a road department at all?
From my visit through Vermont, I highly doubt it. Their two-lane roads suck majorly, and would it kill VTrans to have passing lanes? It would be nice to be able to pass the New Hampshire jackasses going 5-10 under the freaking underposted speed limit.
Amen.
Vermont's only four lane divided highways are all freeways. All the US and state routes really are pretty much two lane roads that just are given a number designations. In Vermont your rural off freeways are 50 mph while the interstates get 65 mph. Only the super two US 7 gets 55 and I believe the same road gets the only undivided non freeway roads in the state.
Incorrect. US 7 has a divided section south of Rutland that is not a freeway and VT 62 is divided near Barre.
The US 7 expressway is 55. Sections of US 2 and VT 279 are posted at 55.
And you pass the NH idiots by passing on a double yellow line. Legal in VT unless signed otherwise. I feel like I do a "Vermont pass" every time I'm in Vermont.
Quote from: SSOWorld on July 28, 2018, 08:27:45 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on July 28, 2018, 03:12:41 AM
Contraflow (what everyone above is talking about) is not particularly common in Washington, but when it does occur, cones are often used to separate the directions (in lieu of re-striping). Although re-striping is not unusual.
In Sumner, WA, not that long ago, cones were used for some contraflow, but not throughout the length of the project. So two directions were divided by a single dashed white line. This isn't particularly common:
[[snip]]
Are you sure it's not the Swift truck that caused it? :-D
Oh that's true. "Sure Wish I Finished Training", right? :-D
CA 99 (functionally CA's "Main Street"), for the past 30+ years the site of specific congestion points around the larger (100K+) cities -- Bakersfield, Fresno, Modesto, and Stockton -- has gotten to the point where that congestion is spreading on a linear basis to the previously unaffected (or lightly affected) towns. Part of that is due to distribution centers (mostly food-related) along or near that route; some actually process and pack crops for overseas consumption (one of the few positives in our trade deficits!). Right now I'd consider anything between Turlock and Lodi to be more suburban than rural because of the incursion of Bay Area overflow/affordable housing -- with the inherent traffic problems associated with this sort of development; but with a few exceptions the remainder would be considered rural. The freeway south of Fresno has been undergoing almost constant construction as far as the CA 198 junction; many of those distribution points have been located in the Selma/Kingsburg area with a few as far afield as Visalia -- hence the expansion to 6 lanes (and 8 near Fresno!) along that stretch. And the congestion has extended southward; whereas for years it was free-moving starting about 5 miles south of Jensen Ave., now the congestion often extends to the CA 43 exit and even the Kings River bridge (construction efforts have, of course, exacerbated this issue) -- but it's clear that the 6+ lane expansion is warranted. For the time being the 2+2 segment from Tulare south to Delano seems only to be affected during inclement weather (tule fog among the major culprits here) or when there are significant numbers of trucks functioning as "road boulders" -- the slow passing the slower -- the effects of which tend to extend to the rear and cause a general traffic slowdown. But, so far, that segment seems to be too far afield to attract distribution center development -- although it's one of the oldest of the corridor's facilities and contains the most substandard features (low overheads, narrow bridges, short ramps, etc.). But right now it's not enough of a "squeaky wheel" for Caltrans to prioritize it.
But the agency does still maintain a "master plan" for the corridor that envisions a minimum of 6 lanes overall, with 8 or more (as needed) in the more urbanized sections. However, like most such plans, it is largely unfunded and implemented sporadically. With the increase in commercial attractiveness of the area (generally based on land prices lower than coastal areas plus the availability of relatively efficient rail and road corridors), this plan may well be revisited on a more near-term timetable.
Quote from: Brandon on July 28, 2018, 10:05:22 AM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on July 26, 2018, 03:06:29 PM
I visited the 2nd-least populous state and got in 3 long awful traffic jams in one day. Does Vermont have a road department at all?
From my visit through Vermont, I highly doubt it. Their two-lane roads suck majorly, and would it kill VTrans to have passing lanes? It would be nice to be able to pass the New Hampshire jackasses going 5-10 under the freaking underposted speed limit.
If you guys want to shovel more Federal highway money our way, we'd be happy to try and improve the roadways. As it is now, our highway budget barely covers snowplowing, pavement repair, and some much needed bridge replacements. Being the 2nd least-populous state means we don't have much of a funding base and have a high gas tax to boot just to get what we've got.
Quote from: cl94The US 7 expressway is 55. Sections of US 2 and VT 279 are posted at 55.
As is VT 63.
QuoteAnd you pass the NH idiots by passing on a double yellow line. Legal in VT unless signed otherwise.
Usually not recommended, though, because if VTrans stripes a double-yellow on a state highway, it's usually because visibility is restricted. More allowable on the paved town highways, which do not have passing zones striped.
Quote from: sparker on July 28, 2018, 03:47:01 PM
CA 99 (functionally CA's "Main Street"), for the past 30+ years the site of specific congestion points around the larger (100K+) cities -- Bakersfield, Fresno, Modesto, and Stockton -- has gotten to the point where that congestion is spreading on a linear basis to the previously unaffected (or lightly affected) towns. Part of that is due to distribution centers (mostly food-related) along or near that route; some actually process and pack crops for overseas consumption (one of the few positives in our trade deficits!). Right now I'd consider anything between Turlock and Lodi to be more suburban than rural because of the incursion of Bay Area overflow/affordable housing -- with the inherent traffic problems associated with this sort of development; but with a few exceptions the remainder would be considered rural. The freeway south of Fresno has been undergoing almost constant construction as far as the CA 198 junction; many of those distribution points have been located in the Selma/Kingsburg area with a few as far afield as Visalia -- hence the expansion to 6 lanes (and 8 near Fresno!) along that stretch. And the congestion has extended southward; whereas for years it was free-moving starting about 5 miles south of Jensen Ave., now the congestion often extends to the CA 43 exit and even the Kings River bridge (construction efforts have, of course, exacerbated this issue) -- but it's clear that the 6+ lane expansion is warranted. For the time being the 2+2 segment from Tulare south to Delano seems only to be affected during inclement weather (tule fog among the major culprits here) or when there are significant numbers of trucks functioning as "road boulders" -- the slow passing the slower -- the effects of which tend to extend to the rear and cause a general traffic slowdown. But, so far, that segment seems to be too far afield to attract distribution center development -- although it's one of the oldest of the corridor's facilities and contains the most substandard features (low overheads, narrow bridges, short ramps, etc.). But right now it's not enough of a "squeaky wheel" for Caltrans to prioritize it.
But the agency does still maintain a "master plan" for the corridor that envisions a minimum of 6 lanes overall, with 8 or more (as needed) in the more urbanized sections. However, like most such plans, it is largely unfunded and implemented sporadically. With the increase in commercial attractiveness of the area (generally based on land prices lower than coastal areas plus the availability of relatively efficient rail and road corridors), this plan may well be revisited on a more near-term timetable.
I-5 and 99 generally just avenues of misery in the Central Valley. Generally I try to stick to; 33, 43, or 65 heading south and CA 59/J59 or 49 heading north.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 28, 2018, 05:28:25 PM
I-5 and 99 generally just avenues of misery in the Central Valley. Generally I try to stick to; 33, 43, or 65 heading south and CA 59/J59 or 49 heading north.
Don't know if you've ever used it on a regular basis, but multi-county J7 from Merced to Stockton is a very interesting alternative to 99 between those points. With the disclaimer that I'm a railfan and about 75% of the route follows the BNSF main line, it pretty much gives the traveler the opportunity to see parts of the Valley -- for better or worse -- that one misses on the 99 corridor -- ranging from orchards, farmland, suburbs, some small town centers, and even monstrous food-processing facilities (east of Modesto). As an alternative, highly recommended. Did it last year coming back from Madera (signing some property-related shit with my ex! -- yecch!); except for more housing tracts in the Riverbank/Escalon area, hasn't changed much since I first used it in the '80's.
Much of the I-5 corridor between Seattle and Portland is rural and sees very high traffic volumes during weekends. Same goes for the Seattle-Vancouver BC corridor.
Some one-off festivals like the Skagit Valley Tulip Festival can push things to the extreme. Last year's solar eclipse was a fun one to escape...almost 9 hours between Salem and Seattle (most of it spent on the backroads leading to Portland).
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on July 28, 2018, 09:54:01 AM
Axioms on rural congestion:
1) Rural highways have lower capacity than urban highways
2) Rural highways are almost by definition remote, and by result, there often be much less auxiliary capacity nearby
3) The rural auxiliary capacity (e.g.frontage roads or side roads) may be lower than urban auxiliary capacity.
4) Rural slowdowns often occur because of a major incident (e.g. train derailment, truck explosion) rather than urban volume.
5) Rural authorities may have less experience or planning with slowdowns, particularly if you have an incident (axiom 4).
I was driving from the early days of the Interstate system. Volumes were so much lower that 4 lanes on rural Interstates seemed way overdesigned on most of the mileage. I remember thinking that much of it should have been built as 2 lanes on 4-lane right-of-way, to increase the rate of mileage completion. I thought this until at least 1975 or so.
I-95 thru the South needed 4 lanes from the outset. Traffic was so light on I-81 TN-PA that I thought much should have been built with 2 lanes, as late as 1975 when it was all complete Knoxville-Harrisburg except the short 4-lane arterial at Wytheville. Rural daily volumes in VA were in the 5,000 to 8,000 range, which could have been handled with 2 lanes.
Hard to believe now, but that is what 40+ years of slow but steady traffic growth will do!
Granted 2-lane freeways have their own inherent problems mainly the high rate of headon fatal accidents.
Quote from: Bruce on July 29, 2018, 02:12:13 AM
Much of the I-5 corridor between Seattle and Portland is rural and sees very high traffic volumes during weekends. Same goes for the Seattle-Vancouver BC corridor.
Some one-off festivals like the Skagit Valley Tulip Festival can push things to the extreme. Last year's solar eclipse was a fun one to escape...almost 9 hours between Salem and Seattle (most of it spent on the backroads leading to Portland).
Let's just say Eugene to Vancouver as south of Portland has some pretty high numbers as well and sometimes higher.
LG-TP260
Quote from: Hurricane Rex on July 29, 2018, 03:38:19 PM
Quote from: Bruce on July 29, 2018, 02:12:13 AM
Much of the I-5 corridor between Seattle and Portland is rural and sees very high traffic volumes during weekends. Same goes for the Seattle-Vancouver BC corridor.
Some one-off festivals like the Skagit Valley Tulip Festival can push things to the extreme. Last year's solar eclipse was a fun one to escape...almost 9 hours between Salem and Seattle (most of it spent on the backroads leading to Portland).
Let's just say Eugene to Vancouver as south of Portland has some pretty high numbers as well and sometimes higher.
LG-TP260
Not coincidentally, one can almost always locate the West Coast rural areas featuring the most regularly congested roadways by the presence of paralleling regional Amtrak routes. Eugene-Vancouver is the part of I-5 that is one of the most congested routes (on an overall basis) in the NW; the areas served by that route segment are also served by Amtrak's
Cascade regional service. Further south, CA 99 and to a lesser extent I-5 in the San Joaquin Valley are themselves paralleled by the
San Joaquin regional Amtrak service, supplemented by the
Capitol service, which follows I-80 and I-880 quite closely. All those routes are prone to regular congestion even in the segments not in urbanized or semi-urbanized areas. I'd mention the SoCal
Coaster Amtrak service -- but only the Santa Barbara-San Luis Obispo segment of that service even remotely qualifies as rural -- the ship sailed long ago on the remainder of that corridor south through L.A. to San Diego.