https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/the-poorest-town-in-every-state/ss-AAwE9MH
List is compiled by 24/7 Wall St., so throw the eggs and tomatoes at them (unless they're correct)....
Selma, AL
Ketchikan City, AK
South Tucson, AZ
Camden, AR
Clearlake, CA
Sterling, CO
Willimantic, CT
Smyrna, DE
Brownsville, FL
Cordele, GA
Wahiawa, HI
Rupert, ID
Centreville, IL (poorest in US)
Brazil, IN
Lamoni, IA
Belleville, KS
Glasgow, KY
Ville Platte, LA
Eastport, ME
Cumberland, MD
Webster, MA
Hamtramck, MI
Bemidji, MN
Indianola, MS
Mountain View, MO
Deer Lodge, MT
Red Cloud, NE
Laughlin, NV
Berlin, NH
Crestwood Village, NJ
Deming, NM
New Square, NY
Mount Olive, NC
Ellendale, ND
East Cleveland, OH
Arkoma, OK
Reedsport, OR
Johnstown, PA
Central Falls, RI
Belton, SC
Vermillion, SD
Lafayette, TN
Fabens, TX
Brigham City, UT
Bellows Falls, VT
Hillsville, VA
Chewelah, WA
Weston, WV
Whitewater, WI
Thermopolis, WY
Crestwood Village, NJ isn't a town; it's just a part of Manchester Township.
So take it from there in regards to how worthy this list is.
"Median Annual Household Income"
That appears to be all they looked at.
Willimantic is actually a city within Windham, Conn. I'm not sure if its the poorest town, but it's the least urban poor zip code, ottomh in Conn.. There may be some urban bias at play here.
Quote from: froggie on August 13, 2018, 11:55:37 AM
"Median Annual Household Income"
That appears to be all they looked at.
Is there a better metric?
Btw, I drove through Willimantic a couple of weekends ago. It looks better than it has in the past, but I think we have a member here who actually lives there.
South Tucson is about as bad as it gets. There is an old story from a discount motel that went bad for an employee of mine back in 2011. He got blocked by a dust storm and didn't want to take AZ 79 home. Instead of getting a decent hotel he stayed at a $19.99 motel in South Tucson. Ended bailing out at 2 AM after hearing gun shots in the nearby vicinity to his room.
I don't have any numbers to base what I'm thinking on, but it's going to be hard to convince me that Mount Olive is poorer than any number of small, run down, in the middle of nowhere towns in NC. There is a 4 year university in Mount Olive, for heavens sake. It's not a very large one compared to others in the this half of the state, but it is there nonetheless.
I wonder if the dorms there are being factored in as "households" for this list. Then I guess could see it if there were a bunch of students with either no job or a minimum wage part time job pulling the median down.
I'm shocked Illinois's isn't Cairo.
Quote from: abefroman329 on August 13, 2018, 12:28:39 PM
Quote from: froggie on August 13, 2018, 11:55:37 AM
"Median Annual Household Income"
That appears to be all they looked at.
Is there a better metric?
Yes. Looking at multiple metrics, for starters. Looking at the range of income versus just the median. Comparing the AVERAGE income to the median. Looking at cost of living to go with income. For example, if two towns have $X as their median income but cost of living in one town is 20% higher. The list goes on.
(EDIT) Another thing with just using median is that it doesn't tell the whole story. For an illustrative story, say you have three towns with 5 wage earners each. Town A's workers make 5, 10, 20, 22, 24. Town B's workers make 16, 18, 20, 22, 24. Town C's workers make 18, 20, 20, 40, 70. Per statistics, all three towns have the same median income, but all have a different story.
I have a hard time believing that Hamtramck is Michigan's poorest city. Benton Harbor or Highland Park would be my choice.
Quote from: tribar on August 13, 2018, 01:04:55 PM
I'm shocked Illinois's isn't Cairo.
So am I. I drove through Cairo about 4 years ago and thought to myself well I'm at the dead bottom of Illinois in land and I guess cities too lol.
Glasgow, Ky., can't be right. Neither can Weston, WV. There's a whole lot more poverty-stricken towns in both states.
Median is favored nationally because of the skew of the data. Froggie's got a good point that it may not be the best at more localized levels.
Whitewater WI is a college town. Not sure how much that skews the results.
Quote from: hbelkins on August 13, 2018, 01:54:42 PM
Glasgow, Ky., can't be right. Neither can Weston, WV. There's a whole lot more poverty-stricken towns in both states.
Agree.
Bellows Falls, VT is not a town.
Quote from: Big John on August 13, 2018, 02:45:39 PM
Whitewater WI is a college town. Not sure how much that skews the results.
Is there another college there besides UW-Whitewater?
Quote from: jon daly on August 13, 2018, 11:59:33 AM
Willimantic is actually a city within Windham, Conn. I'm not sure if its the poorest town, but it's the least urban poor zip code, ottomh in Conn.. There may be some urban bias at play here.
Willimantic is no longer a city. It is a Census Designated Place within the town of Windham. I figured the poorest town/locale would be somewhere in Windham County.
QuoteBellows Falls, VT is not a town.
Technically, no. But it is an incorporated village.
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 13, 2018, 01:39:40 PM
Quote from: tribar on August 13, 2018, 01:04:55 PM
I'm shocked Illinois's isn't Cairo.
So am I. I drove through Cairo about 4 years ago and thought to myself well I'm at the dead bottom of Illinois in land and I guess cities too lol.
I thought it was Hopkins Park.
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on August 13, 2018, 03:41:15 PM
Quote from: jon daly on August 13, 2018, 11:59:33 AM
Willimantic is actually a city within Windham, Conn. I'm not sure if its the poorest town, but it's the least urban poor zip code, ottomh in Conn.. There may be some urban bias at play here.
Willimantic is no longer a city. It is a Census Designated Place within the town of Windham. I figured the poorest town/locale would be somewhere in Windham County.
I would've guessed one of the bigger non-Stamford cities or New London. I know that Hartford has the West End which props it up a bit, but there's not much area for upper-class housing. The suburbs surround it. New London is in a similar boat.
Quote from: slorydn1 on August 13, 2018, 12:53:31 PM
I don't have any numbers to base what I'm thinking on, but it's going to be hard to convince me that Mount Olive is poorer than any number of small, run down, in the middle of nowhere towns in NC. There is a 4 year university in Mount Olive, for heavens sake. It's not a very large one compared to others in the this half of the state, but it is there nonetheless.
I wonder if the dorms there are being factored in as "households" for this list. Then I guess could see it if there were a bunch of students with either no job or a minimum wage part time job pulling the median down.
Yeah, I'm not quite buying it either. Hell, it's the only town in Wayne County, outside of Goldsboro, that's had any growth in the last 10 years...at least as far as businesses go. Meanwhile the towns in the northern half of the county (Fremont, Pikeville, Eureka) look virtually the same as they did when we first moved there in 1995.
Quote from: inkyatari on August 13, 2018, 04:44:29 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 13, 2018, 01:39:40 PM
Quote from: tribar on August 13, 2018, 01:04:55 PM
I'm shocked Illinois's isn't Cairo.
So am I. I drove through Cairo about 4 years ago and thought to myself well I'm at the dead bottom of Illinois in land and I guess cities too lol.
I thought it was Hopkins Park.
Illinois has some strange cities like that. I'd guess at one of the Southland suburbs of Chicago like Harvey, Ford Heights, Markham, Dixmoor or one of those cities but one of the St. Louis suburbs is a pretty good candidate too. Hopkins Park is strange, lots of poverty there and it's in the middle of nowhere.
Whatever the poorest city is in South Dakota, it most likely isn't Vermillion, home of the University of South Dakota. I would bet on that one being Pine Ridge, or another city on an Indian Reservation. That's probably true for every state with a reservation.
Lamoni, Iowa and Bemidji, Minnesota are also college towns and thus not drawing the short end of the income stick.
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 13, 2018, 10:23:25 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on August 13, 2018, 04:44:29 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 13, 2018, 01:39:40 PM
Quote from: tribar on August 13, 2018, 01:04:55 PM
I'm shocked Illinois's isn't Cairo.
So am I. I drove through Cairo about 4 years ago and thought to myself well I'm at the dead bottom of Illinois in land and I guess cities too lol.
I thought it was Hopkins Park.
Illinois has some strange cities like that. I'd guess at one of the Southland suburbs of Chicago like Harvey, Ford Heights, Markham, Dixmoor or one of those cities but one of the St. Louis suburbs is a pretty good candidate too. Hopkins Park is strange, lots of poverty there and it's in the middle of nowhere.
A piece was just ran recently on the news of how Dixmoor's corruption is completely throwing their budget in the tank... Quite sad as maybe surrounding communities are also feeling the influence of this as well
Speaking of college towns, I wouldn't think of Willimantic as a college town per se, but it is the home of Eastern Connecticut State University; my alma mater.
Yeah, I wouldn't have thought Brigham City UT would be on this list. I most certainly would have expected it to be on the Ute reservation in northeast UT, or someplace like Blanding, along the US 191 corridor south of Moab.
Quote from: abefroman329 on August 13, 2018, 12:28:39 PM
Quote from: froggie on August 13, 2018, 11:55:37 AM
"Median Annual Household Income"
That appears to be all they looked at.
Is there a better metric?
I'd think per-capita income would be better to use than median household income, especially in a place like Utah with large families, which may skew the results.
If we go by per capita, the poorest place in Utah is Whiterocks (on the Ute reservation). If we're going to be pedantic and not count it because it's a CDP, then the poorest incorporated city is Hildale. That's where household income is misleading, because that's a polygamous town, and the amount of people living under one roof is going to be much larger than a typical household.
The problem I have with income as a measure of rich/poor is that it doesn't account for expenses. We're debt-ridden and I have a 100+ mile round-trip commute. So I have a decent job, but I'd consider myself on the fringe of middle-class respectability.
Quote from: ET21 on August 14, 2018, 08:55:06 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 13, 2018, 10:23:25 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on August 13, 2018, 04:44:29 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 13, 2018, 01:39:40 PM
Quote from: tribar on August 13, 2018, 01:04:55 PM
I'm shocked Illinois's isn't Cairo.
So am I. I drove through Cairo about 4 years ago and thought to myself well I'm at the dead bottom of Illinois in land and I guess cities too lol.
I thought it was Hopkins Park.
Illinois has some strange cities like that. I'd guess at one of the Southland suburbs of Chicago like Harvey, Ford Heights, Markham, Dixmoor or one of those cities but one of the St. Louis suburbs is a pretty good candidate too. Hopkins Park is strange, lots of poverty there and it's in the middle of nowhere.
A piece was just ran recently on the news of how Dixmoor's corruption is completely throwing their budget in the tank... Quite sad as maybe surrounding communities are also feeling the influence of this as well
To me that whole area south of Chicago city limits is pretty rough and I wouldn't doubt it's pretty poor too. I'm kind of surprised Illinois wasn't Cairo too.
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 14, 2018, 01:26:17 PM
Quote from: ET21 on August 14, 2018, 08:55:06 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 13, 2018, 10:23:25 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on August 13, 2018, 04:44:29 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 13, 2018, 01:39:40 PM
Quote from: tribar on August 13, 2018, 01:04:55 PM
I'm shocked Illinois's isn't Cairo.
So am I. I drove through Cairo about 4 years ago and thought to myself well I'm at the dead bottom of Illinois in land and I guess cities too lol.
I thought it was Hopkins Park.
Illinois has some strange cities like that. I'd guess at one of the Southland suburbs of Chicago like Harvey, Ford Heights, Markham, Dixmoor or one of those cities but one of the St. Louis suburbs is a pretty good candidate too. Hopkins Park is strange, lots of poverty there and it's in the middle of nowhere.
A piece was just ran recently on the news of how Dixmoor's corruption is completely throwing their budget in the tank... Quite sad as maybe surrounding communities are also feeling the influence of this as well
To me that whole area south of Chicago city limits is pretty rough and I wouldn't doubt it's pretty poor too. I'm kind of surprised Illinois wasn't Cairo too.
Yeah anything east of Cicero and south of 294 is not the greatest.... Furthest I go is Midlothian or Crestwood
Webster MA just got hit by a small EF1 tornado last week. A blog did a satirical before and after to see if people could tell the difference. That whole French/Thames River valley from Webster down to Long Island Sound (I-395 for the most part), with fellow poorest 'town' Willimantic CT close to that corridor, has seen better days.
^ It's the Last Green Valley. But I think western RI near the CT border is even greener. It seems like a lot of the land there is state forests. In some ways that's good for the ecology of the Northeast. I'm thinking of moving up route 12 from Mystic.
Quote from: ET21 on August 14, 2018, 02:47:21 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 14, 2018, 01:26:17 PM
Quote from: ET21 on August 14, 2018, 08:55:06 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 13, 2018, 10:23:25 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on August 13, 2018, 04:44:29 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 13, 2018, 01:39:40 PM
Quote from: tribar on August 13, 2018, 01:04:55 PM
I'm shocked Illinois's isn't Cairo.
So am I. I drove through Cairo about 4 years ago and thought to myself well I'm at the dead bottom of Illinois in land and I guess cities too lol.
I thought it was Hopkins Park.
Illinois has some strange cities like that. I'd guess at one of the Southland suburbs of Chicago like Harvey, Ford Heights, Markham, Dixmoor or one of those cities but one of the St. Louis suburbs is a pretty good candidate too. Hopkins Park is strange, lots of poverty there and it's in the middle of nowhere.
A piece was just ran recently on the news of how Dixmoor's corruption is completely throwing their budget in the tank... Quite sad as maybe surrounding communities are also feeling the influence of this as well
To me that whole area south of Chicago city limits is pretty rough and I wouldn't doubt it's pretty poor too. I'm kind of surprised Illinois wasn't Cairo too.
Yeah anything east of Cicero and south of 294 is not the greatest.... Furthest I go is Midlothian or Crestwood
I always thought that Comiskey Park was in an ok area, not the greatest but not the worst and once you started venturing south of there is when it starts getting rough. I think Chicago's worst neighborhood is Fuller Park but we all know how bad Englewood is and West Englewood and those neighborhoods. Fuller Park was one of the worst neighborhoods I saw anytime I was in Chicago. And Fuller Park is in the shadows of Comiskey as well as Wentworth Gardens.
About 17-18 years ago I was traveling through Chicago on my way home from Milwaukee and there was a traffic jam on I-94 south of Milwaukee so I decided to start taking another route and went through a lot of the northern suburbs of Chicago along like Sheridan Road, Green Bay Road and over in that area. I went through Glencoe, Winnetka, Evanston, Northside of Chicago and got on Lake Shore Drive at it's northern terminus and followed that through downtown and onto the Southside. Once I got to the Southside I should have got back on the Dan Ryan but didn't I continued to follow Lake Shore all the way to Jackson Park. Then it started to get a little ugly, I was stopped at a traffic light I can't remember what street I was on exactly or the cross street but there was a guy laying on the ground right in the middle of the intersection passed out and I knew the type of neighborhood I was in. Nothing happened to me though and I got out safely and after about a minute or two of driving some more I saw a sign that said, "I-94 Detroit" and said to myself hell yeah I'm outta here.
Ville Platte, LA ain't near as bad off as many towns in the delta region of the state (northeast Louisiana).
I was just looking up the history of Hopkins Park, IL.. Quite interesting. Apparently freed slaves inhabited the area right after the civil war, hoping to farm the land, but the only reason this particular land was unfarmed was because nothing really grows in the sandy soil of that area. The white settlers basically eschewed this small area.
Hillsville, VA? Seem like a nice small town with decent quality of life in a mountainous area.
The recently built US-58 bypass has enhanced that by providing a route for thru traffic and relegating the old highway to local use.
Orleans strikes me as the poorest county, at least upstate, but I have no hard evidence, and I'm not sure what town I'd pick if I hard to narrow it down that far.
Whitewater??? Whitewater's a college town, and they don't seem very poor. I was thinking for Wisconsin it would either be on the Menominee reservation or one of the middle of nowhere towns up north or in the central part of the state.
Quote from: MantyMadTown on August 16, 2018, 10:45:28 PM
Whitewater??? Whitewater's a college town, and they don't seem very poor. I was thinking for Wisconsin it would either be on the Menominee reservation or one of the middle of nowhere towns up north or in the central part of the state.
College town = many people with 0 income.
Quote from: 1 on August 16, 2018, 10:46:51 PM
Quote from: MantyMadTown on August 16, 2018, 10:45:28 PM
Whitewater??? Whitewater's a college town, and they don't seem very poor. I was thinking for Wisconsin it would either be on the Menominee reservation or one of the middle of nowhere towns up north or in the central part of the state.
College town = many people with 0 income.
That seems to skew the data. I'm guessing most of these people (read: college students) with 0 income get all their support from scholarships, student loans, financial aid, and their parents. So they don't
technically make any money, but they don't need any extra support. Doesn't seem like a good indicator of poverty. A better example would be family income, since the data skews around college students.
Here in CA, Clearlake's numbers are likely skewed due to the significant numbers of retirees there; most "income" outside of retirement benefits goes unreported. Back about 2013, a statewide survey that utilized the three statistical averages -- mean, median, and mode -- showed McFarland, along CA 99 between Bakersfield and Delano, to have both the lowest mean and median household income; Alpaugh, about 20 miles northwest to the west of CA 43, had the lowest modal average. The southern San Joaquin Valley has been the state's "poverty central" since the late '50's, when large-scale corporate farming ("agribusiness") commenced purchasing individual farms and plots; most of that land has been converted to cotton, almond, and stone fruit farming (Rainier cherries, once almost exclusively grown in Washington and Oregon, are now among the most profitable annual cash crops in Tulare and Kings Counties; they need to be picked before the average daily high exceeds 85 degrees -- at least according to a cherry farmer I know up in Loomis -- or else they're cherry stew!). However, those profits are scattered up the literal "food chain"; very little stays with Valley workers.
Quote from: sparker on August 17, 2018, 01:00:50 AM
Here in CA, Clearlake's numbers are likely skewed due to the significant numbers of retirees there; most "income" outside of retirement benefits goes unreported. Back about 2013, a statewide survey that utilized the three statistical averages -- mean, median, and mode -- showed McFarland, along CA 99 between Bakersfield and Delano, to have both the lowest mean and median household income; Alpaugh, about 20 miles northwest to the west of CA 43, had the lowest modal average. The southern San Joaquin Valley has been the state's "poverty central" since the late '50's, when large-scale corporate farming ("agribusiness") commenced purchasing individual farms and plots; most of that land has been converted to cotton, almond, and stone fruit farming (Rainier cherries, once almost exclusively grown in Washington and Oregon, are now among the most profitable annual cash crops in Tulare and Kings Counties; they need to be picked before the average daily high exceeds 85 degrees -- at least according to a cherry farmer I know up in Loomis -- or else they're cherry stew!). However, those profits are scattered up the literal "food chain"; very little stays with Valley workers.
Wasn't Mendota pretty high on the list this past decade with the 40% plus unemployment rate or was the prison pushing the income upward?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 17, 2018, 01:36:24 AM
Quote from: sparker on August 17, 2018, 01:00:50 AM
Here in CA, Clearlake's numbers are likely skewed due to the significant numbers of retirees there; most "income" outside of retirement benefits goes unreported. Back about 2013, a statewide survey that utilized the three statistical averages -- mean, median, and mode -- showed McFarland, along CA 99 between Bakersfield and Delano, to have both the lowest mean and median household income; Alpaugh, about 20 miles northwest to the west of CA 43, had the lowest modal average. The southern San Joaquin Valley has been the state's "poverty central" since the late '50's, when large-scale corporate farming ("agribusiness") commenced purchasing individual farms and plots; most of that land has been converted to cotton, almond, and stone fruit farming (Rainier cherries, once almost exclusively grown in Washington and Oregon, are now among the most profitable annual cash crops in Tulare and Kings Counties; they need to be picked before the average daily high exceeds 85 degrees -- at least according to a cherry farmer I know up in Loomis -- or else they're cherry stew!). However, those profits are scattered up the literal "food chain"; very little stays with Valley workers.
Wasn't Mendota pretty high on the list this past decade with the 40% plus unemployment rate or was the prison pushing the income upward?
It appears that the more remote the prison town, the more likely it is that the paid prison employees will reside in or near that town (which makes sense). Avenal and Susanville, long remote "poverty pockets", were literally rocketed into middle class when the nearby prisons opened. Mendota and Corcoran, on the other hand,
did witness a mean income hike that got them out of the bottom poverty tier -- but a lot of the personnel in those locations elected (probably with family input) to endure a medium-length commute in order to reside in a city with more amenities (Fresno, Hanford, Visalia, etc.), which correspondingly reduced the fiscal benefits to the city where the prison is located.
Quote from: 1 on August 16, 2018, 10:46:51 PM
Quote from: MantyMadTown on August 16, 2018, 10:45:28 PM
Whitewater??? Whitewater's a college town, and they don't seem very poor. I was thinking for Wisconsin it would either be on the Menominee reservation or one of the middle of nowhere towns up north or in the central part of the state.
College town = many people with 0 income.
Wouldn't students be counted in their home town and not in their college town?
Quote from: Beltway on August 17, 2018, 07:30:18 AM
Quote from: 1 on August 16, 2018, 10:46:51 PM
Quote from: MantyMadTown on August 16, 2018, 10:45:28 PM
Whitewater??? Whitewater's a college town, and they don't seem very poor. I was thinking for Wisconsin it would either be on the Menominee reservation or one of the middle of nowhere towns up north or in the central part of the state.
College town = many people with 0 income.
Wouldn't students be counted in their home town and not in their college town?
That's what I thought. College students usually don't claim permanent residency in their college towns unless they've actually moved there and are living off campus.
They got East Cleveland right. The city doesn't even have enough money to maintain their traffic signals, let alone their streets, utilities,...
Quote from: thenetwork on August 17, 2018, 10:44:15 AM
They got East Cleveland right. The city doesn't even have enough money to maintain their traffic signals, let alone their streets, utilities,...
Indeed. East Cleveland is one of the biggest shitholes I have ever driven through.
Quote from: sparker on August 17, 2018, 02:13:12 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 17, 2018, 01:36:24 AM
Quote from: sparker on August 17, 2018, 01:00:50 AM
Here in CA, Clearlake's numbers are likely skewed due to the significant numbers of retirees there; most "income" outside of retirement benefits goes unreported. Back about 2013, a statewide survey that utilized the three statistical averages -- mean, median, and mode -- showed McFarland, along CA 99 between Bakersfield and Delano, to have both the lowest mean and median household income; Alpaugh, about 20 miles northwest to the west of CA 43, had the lowest modal average. The southern San Joaquin Valley has been the state's "poverty central" since the late '50's, when large-scale corporate farming ("agribusiness") commenced purchasing individual farms and plots; most of that land has been converted to cotton, almond, and stone fruit farming (Rainier cherries, once almost exclusively grown in Washington and Oregon, are now among the most profitable annual cash crops in Tulare and Kings Counties; they need to be picked before the average daily high exceeds 85 degrees -- at least according to a cherry farmer I know up in Loomis -- or else they're cherry stew!). However, those profits are scattered up the literal "food chain"; very little stays with Valley workers.
Wasn't Mendota pretty high on the list this past decade with the 40% plus unemployment rate or was the prison pushing the income upward?
It appears that the more remote the prison town, the more likely it is that the paid prison employees will reside in or near that town (which makes sense). Avenal and Susanville, long remote "poverty pockets", were literally rocketed into middle class when the nearby prisons opened. Mendota and Corcoran, on the other hand, did witness a mean income hike that got them out of the bottom poverty tier -- but a lot of the personnel in those locations elected (probably with family input) to endure a medium-length commute in order to reside in a city with more amenities (Fresno, Hanford, Visalia, etc.), which correspondingly reduced the fiscal benefits to the city where the prison is located.
Seems that the Corcoran prison even had a positive boost for Huron. I'd speculate Huron might just be as bad or worse than Mendota is. I never would have thought in a million years Clearlake would have a lower median income level.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 17, 2018, 11:56:02 PM
Seems that the Corcoran prison even had a positive boost for Huron. I'd speculate Huron might just be as bad or worse than Mendota is. I never would have thought in a million years Clearlake would have a lower median income level.
Clearlake, along with much of Lake County in general, is just plain weird. Lots of really rundown mobile home parks mixed with ramshackle houses. Most of the better housing is down in Hidden Valley or strung along the lakefront near Kelseyville. Successive summers with major wildfires have precipitated an exodus of sorts from the area; those so inclined with the means to relocate elswhere have done so or are in the process; this has created sort of a "plateau" regarding property values -- while like with most of CA they're naturally increasing, Lake County is becoming more and more a buyers' market in relation to adjoining areas. According to the media reports I've come across, the "diaspora" is heading toward either the Russian River Valley (Ukiah and vicinity) or south to the I-80 corridor -- anywhere but in the dry brush (but recently all those areas have featured significant blazes as well -- I guess when it comes to CA, it's out of the frying pan..................!). And the remaining Lake County population's mean income will likely show something of a decline as a result of the more affluent taking a hike -- at least until property values dip to the point where the losses are stemmed by newcomers looking for a bargain (hope they can get insurance!). But the trailer (er,
mobile home)* park folks will likely hang in there likely because they have little choice in the matter.
*
for a really funny discourse on the interchangeability of the terms "trailer" and "mobile home", read Donald Westlake's hilarious novel Bank Shot. Don't bother with the 1974 film version; they fucked up that one royally!
Quote from: Beltway on August 17, 2018, 07:30:18 AM
Wouldn't students be counted in their home town and not in their college town?
That's what I would have thought, but when the 2010 census happened I was required to fill out a form at college.
Quote from: vdeane on August 18, 2018, 11:08:45 PM
Quote from: Beltway on August 17, 2018, 07:30:18 AM
Wouldn't students be counted in their home town and not in their college town?
That's what I would have thought, but when the 2010 census happened I was required to fill out a form at college.
That doesn't mean that they will record you as a resident of that town.
Quote from: Beltway on August 18, 2018, 11:18:05 PM
Quote from: vdeane on August 18, 2018, 11:08:45 PM
Quote from: Beltway on August 17, 2018, 07:30:18 AM
Wouldn't students be counted in their home town and not in their college town?
That's what I would have thought, but when the 2010 census happened I was required to fill out a form at college.
That doesn't mean that they will record you as a resident of that town.
Actually, it does: http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2010/03/15/college-students-count-in-the-census-but-where/
Quote from: vdeane on August 18, 2018, 11:34:27 PM
Quote from: Beltway on August 18, 2018, 11:18:05 PM
Quote from: vdeane on August 18, 2018, 11:08:45 PM
Quote from: Beltway on August 17, 2018, 07:30:18 AM
Wouldn't students be counted in their home town and not in their college town?
That's what I would have thought, but when the 2010 census happened I was required to fill out a form at college.
That doesn't mean that they will record you as a resident of that town.
Actually, it does: http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2010/03/15/college-students-count-in-the-census-but-where/
Not an official source, they waffle on which location to use, and they are inconclusive.
Quote from: Beltway on August 18, 2018, 11:37:50 PM
Quote from: vdeane on August 18, 2018, 11:34:27 PM
Quote from: Beltway on August 18, 2018, 11:18:05 PM
Quote from: vdeane on August 18, 2018, 11:08:45 PM
Quote from: Beltway on August 17, 2018, 07:30:18 AM
Wouldn't students be counted in their home town and not in their college town?
That's what I would have thought, but when the 2010 census happened I was required to fill out a form at college.
That doesn't mean that they will record you as a resident of that town.
Actually, it does: http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2010/03/15/college-students-count-in-the-census-but-where/
Not an official source, they waffle on which location to use, and they are inconclusive.
1. Information is information, but fine, I'm not letting you off the hook that easily: https://www.census.gov/population/www/cen2010/resid_rules/resid_rules.html
Quote
College students living away from their parental home while attending college in the U.S. (living either on-campus or off-campus) - Counted at the on-campus or off-campus residence where they live and sleep most of the time.
College students living away from their parental home while attending college in the U.S. (living either on-campus or off-campus) but staying at their parental home while on break or vacation - Counted at the on-campus or off-campus residence where they live and sleep most of the time.
U.S. college students living outside the U.S. while attending college outside the U.S. - Not counted in the census.
Foreign students living in the U.S. while attending college in the U.S. (living either on-campus or off-campus) - Counted at the on-campus or off-campus residence where they live and sleep most of the time.
2. I would think any data for this thread would be from the 2010 census, so I'm not sure why we would worry about what was done in the past.
3. No idea what's "inconclusive" about it.
I live in the SE corner of Cal., despite being an affluent state, you have a real large poor population in agricultural Imperial valley and rural Colorado River valley (Blythe and Needles) on the CA-AZ line. Imperial county itself has 7 incorporated towns, all are among the state's poorest and Calexico is literally on the Mexican border, the third or developing world is a step away if you're in their city center. And the "East" (Coachella) Valley is where over half the population earns $25k (annual average personal income) while the median is $50k, the town Coachella (pop: 50,000) itself is between farmland and golf resorts has a huge poverty problem, plus 25% of the town is Indian reservation land.
Quote from: Desert Man on August 19, 2018, 09:07:39 PM
I live in the SE corner of Cal., despite being an affluent state, you have a real large poor population in agricultural Imperial valley and rural Colorado River valley (Blythe and Needles) on the CA-AZ line. Imperial county itself has 7 incorporated towns, all are among the state's poorest and Calexico is literally on the Mexican border, the third or developing world is a step away if you're in their city center. And the "East" (Coachella) Valley is where over half the population earns $25k (annual average personal income) while the median is $50k, the town Coachella (pop: 50,000) itself is between farmland and golf resorts has a huge poverty problem, plus 25% of the town is Indian reservation land.
Isn't El Centro usually up there too with poverty statistics?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 19, 2018, 10:01:24 PM
Quote from: Desert Man on August 19, 2018, 09:07:39 PM
I live in the SE corner of Cal., despite being an affluent state, you have a real large poor population in agricultural Imperial valley and rural Colorado River valley (Blythe and Needles) on the CA-AZ line. Imperial county itself has 7 incorporated towns, all are among the state's poorest and Calexico is literally on the Mexican border, the third or developing world is a step away if you're in their city center. And the "East" (Coachella) Valley is where over half the population earns $25k (annual average personal income) while the median is $50k, the town Coachella (pop: 50,000) itself is between farmland and golf resorts has a huge poverty problem, plus 25% of the town is Indian reservation land.
Isn't El Centro usually up there too with poverty statistics?
It's right up there, but according to stats the
real "poorest of the poor" in the region is the city of Imperial, on CA 86 between El Centro and Brawley.
Arkoma, OK is for all intents and purposes really in Arkansas. There are only 2 roads connecting the town to Oklahoma at all, and it's wedged between the state line and the Poteau River otherwise. Other than those 2 roads, all of the rest of the surface roads connect to the dumpy parts of Ft. Smith, so it's little wonder there isn't much in the way of income there, especially with all of the factories in Ft. Smith drying up and moving to Mexico.
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 13, 2018, 01:35:07 PM
I have a hard time believing that Hamtramck is Michigan's poorest city. Benton Harbor or Highland Park would be my choice.
There are a few places in Da YooPee that could give either a run for that money, too. I've always found that part of the state an incredibly scenic, but deeply depressing, place to go driving around in.
Whitewater, WI? That's a nice small college town. OTOH, there are many places in the northwoods and northwest part of the state that are beyond depressing to visit.
Mike
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 17, 2018, 01:42:50 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on August 17, 2018, 10:44:15 AM
They got East Cleveland right. The city doesn't even have enough money to maintain their traffic signals, let alone their streets, utilities,...
Indeed. East Cleveland is one of the biggest shitholes I have ever driven through.
What's the latest on the proposal to annex East Cleveland into the City of Cleveland?
:hmmm:
Mike
Likewise, I can think of a couple dozen Delta towns in Arkansas that are poorer than Camden.
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 13, 2018, 01:35:07 PM
I have a hard time believing that Hamtramck is Michigan's poorest city. Benton Harbor or Highland Park would be my choice.
Inkster probably isn't far behind (the state shut down its school district and divided the city in such a way that all the annexing districts could absorb the students without having to open a new school)
Quote from: ftballfan on August 28, 2018, 09:40:39 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 13, 2018, 01:35:07 PM
I have a hard time believing that Hamtramck is Michigan's poorest city. Benton Harbor or Highland Park would be my choice.
Inkster probably isn't far behind (the state shut down its school district and divided the city in such a way that all the annexing districts could absorb the students without having to open a new school)
Buena Vista had it's school district shutdown as well around the same time. Buena Vista is probably the poorest community in Saginaw County but the east side of Saginaw which borders it is in the same situation. I'm kind of surprised that Beecher still has a school district. I remember when that 6 year old girl was shot in Beecher, doesn't seem like it was 18 years ago.
Quote from: DandyDan on August 14, 2018, 08:29:26 AM
Whatever the poorest city is in South Dakota, it most likely isn't Vermillion, home of the University of South Dakota. I would bet on that one being Pine Ridge, or another city on an Indian Reservation. That's probably true for every state with a reservation.
Technically Pine Ridge isn't a city (it's unincorporated), but your point still stands (my vote would be Kadoka or White River or another "near-reservation" incorporated town).
Quote from: DandyDan on August 14, 2018, 08:29:26 AM
Lamoni, Iowa and Bemidji, Minnesota are also college towns and thus not drawing the short end of the income stick.
I wouldn't necessarily call Lamoni a college town; Graceland isn't much of a college. The numerous small liberal arts schools in that area from what I've seen haven't really improved the surrounding towns much if at all (e.g. Central Methodist in Fayette, MO).
Quote from: sparker on August 20, 2018, 03:49:27 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 19, 2018, 10:01:24 PM
Quote from: Desert Man on August 19, 2018, 09:07:39 PM
I live in the SE corner of Cal., despite being an affluent state, you have a real large poor population in agricultural Imperial valley and rural Colorado River valley (Blythe and Needles) on the CA-AZ line. Imperial county itself has 7 incorporated towns, all are among the state's poorest and Calexico is literally on the Mexican border, the third or developing world is a step away if you're in their city center. And the "East" (Coachella) Valley is where over half the population earns $25k (annual average personal income) while the median is $50k, the town Coachella (pop: 50,000) itself is between farmland and golf resorts has a huge poverty problem, plus 25% of the town is Indian reservation land.
Isn't El Centro usually up there too with poverty statistics?
It's right up there, but according to stats the real "poorest of the poor" in the region is the city of Imperial, on CA 86 between El Centro and Brawley.
The unincorporated community of Heber between the cities of El Centro (Imperial county seat) and Calexico (on the border) is poorer than Imperial. The 3 smaller cities like Calipatria, Holtville and Westmoreland are just as poor. And Imperial is one of 5 rural counties in CA with the most poverty: Alpine, Inyo, Mono and Modoc (this one next to OR, all four next to NV). I give Trinity county a dishonorable mention, however it is within the state of CA.