AARoads Forum

National Boards => General Highway Talk => Topic started by: michravera on September 29, 2018, 03:01:58 PM

Title: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: michravera on September 29, 2018, 03:01:58 PM
I am sure that people can easily come up with "I can't understand why this road is only this many lanes at this point!" Everyone always wants more lanes.

But how about:
"Why is this road 8 lanes at this point?"
"Why is there a STOP sign at this point?"
"A crosswalk? on US-95?"
"A 70MPH limit sign 20 m before the end of the road?"

Have fun!



Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: sparker on September 29, 2018, 04:01:08 PM
Particular to Caltrans' decision to board the roundabout wagon train big-time:

"Why is there a traffic circle out in the middle of nowhere?"

Got that from some friends -- who moved to Lompoc recently -- after their first encounter of the roundabout at the CA 154/246 junction east of Solvang.
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: kphoger on October 01, 2018, 02:02:11 PM
Near me in Wichita...  Here (https://goo.gl/maps/Dhdek5tLiu72) is a four-lane bridge in the middle of a two-lane road.
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: inkyatari on October 01, 2018, 03:05:20 PM
Quote from: sparker on September 29, 2018, 04:01:08 PM
Particular to Caltrans' decision to board the roundabout wagon train big-time:

"Why is there a traffic circle out in the middle of nowhere?"


Illinois is getting in on this bandwagon now...

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9879294,-88.4715331,17.58z

(the satellite image hasn't been updated for here yet.)
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: Brandon on October 01, 2018, 03:14:27 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on October 01, 2018, 03:05:20 PM
Quote from: sparker on September 29, 2018, 04:01:08 PM
Particular to Caltrans' decision to board the roundabout wagon train big-time:

"Why is there a traffic circle out in the middle of nowhere?"


Illinois is getting in on this bandwagon now...

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9879294,-88.4715331,17.58z

(the satellite image hasn't been updated for here yet.)

Yeah, that's a bit of a mind-boggling one.  It's sandwiched between intersections that have signals.

Here's Stony Island, South Chicago, 79th Street, and the Skyway in Chicago.  Let's just throw some ramps in the middle of the street (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7524395,-87.5853098,802m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en) (Street View (https://goo.gl/maps/3SqXoNV15UU2)).  Add a narrow rail viaduct (https://goo.gl/maps/C1dKjVzkiLP2).  A six-corner intersection (https://goo.gl/maps/dknYyQz528P2).  And an express-local setup (https://goo.gl/maps/usZfnptrxsy).
With great rush hour merges (https://goo.gl/maps/iR6M214ZEhJ2).
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: jeffandnicole on October 01, 2018, 03:17:17 PM
Quote from: sparker on September 29, 2018, 04:01:08 PM
Particular to Caltrans' decision to board the roundabout wagon train big-time:

"Why is there a traffic circle out in the middle of nowhere?"

Got that from some friends -- who moved to Lompoc recently -- after their first encounter of the roundabout at the CA 154/246 junction east of Solvang.

NJ 70 has several circles in the middle of nowhere (at least as middle of nowhere as you get in NJ), and others that had been converted to intersections long ago.
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: Max Rockatansky on October 01, 2018, 03:17:23 PM
Quote from: sparker on September 29, 2018, 04:01:08 PM
Particular to Caltrans' decision to board the roundabout wagon train big-time:

"Why is there a traffic circle out in the middle of nowhere?"

Got that from some friends -- who moved to Lompoc recently -- after their first encounter of the roundabout at the CA 154/246 junction east of Solvang.

CA 145, CA 43, and CA 137 all have roundabouts now at major junctions in the sticks.  At minimum the one at 43 and Lacey Blvd is warranted. 
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: kphoger on October 01, 2018, 04:16:17 PM
The Camino Colombia (Toll TX-255) splits into a divided highway for an intersection with a gravel road (https://goo.gl/maps/7SZjretxxQq).  That has always seemed a bit excessive to me.
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: formulanone on October 01, 2018, 07:35:35 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 01, 2018, 04:16:17 PM
The Camino Colombia (Toll TX-255) splits into a divided highway for an intersection with a gravel road (https://goo.gl/maps/7SZjretxxQq).  That has always seemed a bit excessive to me.

That better be the free exit.
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: wanderer2575 on October 01, 2018, 09:58:20 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 01, 2018, 02:02:11 PM
Near me in Wichita...  Here (https://goo.gl/maps/Dhdek5tLiu72) is a four-lane bridge in the middle of a two-lane road.

May make sense to do that if, at the time the bridge was built, there was even a pipe dream that the road might be widened in the future.  Here's (https://goo.gl/maps/iLrTEuv7b4x) another example, in Southfield MI.  And here's (https://goo.gl/maps/3fq6L1Apw292) one more a couple miles away, in Farmington Hills.
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: Eth on October 01, 2018, 10:21:50 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 01, 2018, 04:16:17 PM
The Camino Colombia (Toll TX-255) splits into a divided highway for an intersection with a gravel road (https://goo.gl/maps/7SZjretxxQq).  That has always seemed a bit excessive to me.

Probably makes it easier in case they want to upgrade that to an interchange some day. Those carriageways get converted into the exit ramps and all they have to do is build an overpass in the middle.
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: paulthemapguy on October 01, 2018, 11:33:54 PM
Quote from: sparker on September 29, 2018, 04:01:08 PM
Particular to Caltrans' decision to board the roundabout wagon train big-time:

"Why is there a traffic circle out in the middle of nowhere?"

Got that from some friends -- who moved to Lompoc recently -- after their first encounter of the roundabout at the CA 154/246 junction east of Solvang.

This drives me nuts about rural Wisconsin.  Especially in situations where it's just a low-volume T-intersection.
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: kc8yqq on October 02, 2018, 11:20:51 AM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on October 01, 2018, 09:58:20 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 01, 2018, 02:02:11 PM
Near me in Wichita...  Here (https://goo.gl/maps/Dhdek5tLiu72) is a four-lane bridge in the middle of a two-lane road.

May make sense to do that if, at the time the bridge was built, there was even a pipe dream that the road might be widened in the future.  Here's (https://goo.gl/maps/iLrTEuv7b4x) another example, in Southfield MI.  And here's (https://goo.gl/maps/3fq6L1Apw292) one more a couple miles away, in Farmington Hills.


Here is one of US-127 south of Jackson, MI:  https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1397836,-84.3643393,208a,35y,356.01h,44.97t/data=!3m1!1e3

Talk over the years have been to make this a 4- or 5-lane highway.  It was also one of the proposed routes for I-73.
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: fillup420 on October 02, 2018, 04:08:05 PM
Quote from: kc8yqq on October 02, 2018, 11:20:51 AM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on October 01, 2018, 09:58:20 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 01, 2018, 02:02:11 PM
Near me in Wichita...  Here (https://goo.gl/maps/Dhdek5tLiu72) is a four-lane bridge in the middle of a two-lane road.

May make sense to do that if, at the time the bridge was built, there was even a pipe dream that the road might be widened in the future.  Here's (https://goo.gl/maps/iLrTEuv7b4x) another example, in Southfield MI.  And here's (https://goo.gl/maps/3fq6L1Apw292) one more a couple miles away, in Farmington Hills.
Here is one of US-127 south of Jackson, MI:  https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1397836,-84.3643393,208a,35y,356.01h,44.97t/data=!3m1!1e3

Talk over the years have been to make this a 4- or 5-lane highway.  It was also one of the proposed routes for I-73.

Here is another one on NC 49 in Denton, NC: https://www.google.com/maps/@35.5061183,-80.1833738,1293m/data=!3m1!1e3
This example is 2 separate bridges, and judging by the street view, the northbound bridge was built long before the southbound.
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: kphoger on October 02, 2018, 04:12:56 PM
Quote from: fillup420 on October 02, 2018, 04:08:05 PM
Quote from: kc8yqq on October 02, 2018, 11:20:51 AM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on October 01, 2018, 09:58:20 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 01, 2018, 02:02:11 PM
Near me in Wichita...  Here (https://goo.gl/maps/Dhdek5tLiu72) is a four-lane bridge in the middle of a two-lane road.

May make sense to do that if, at the time the bridge was built, there was even a pipe dream that the road might be widened in the future.  Here's (https://goo.gl/maps/iLrTEuv7b4x) another example, in Southfield MI.  And here's (https://goo.gl/maps/3fq6L1Apw292) one more a couple miles away, in Farmington Hills.
Here is one of US-127 south of Jackson, MI:  https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1397836,-84.3643393,208a,35y,356.01h,44.97t/data=!3m1!1e3

Talk over the years have been to make this a 4- or 5-lane highway.  It was also one of the proposed routes for I-73.

Here is another one on NC 49 in Denton, NC: https://www.google.com/maps/@35.5061183,-80.1833738,1293m/data=!3m1!1e3
This example is 2 separate bridges, and judging by the street view, the northbound bridge was built long before the southbound.

At least that one is striped for four lanes of traffic, like my example.  The Michigan ones linked to by wanderer2575 and kc8yqq are all still striped for two lanes of traffic–which, to me, doesn't make them a "surprising road configuration".
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: GenExpwy on October 03, 2018, 03:06:15 AM
Quote from: fillup420 on October 02, 2018, 04:08:05 PM
Quote from: kc8yqq on October 02, 2018, 11:20:51 AM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on October 01, 2018, 09:58:20 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 01, 2018, 02:02:11 PM
Near me in Wichita...  Here (https://goo.gl/maps/Dhdek5tLiu72) is a four-lane bridge in the middle of a two-lane road.

May make sense to do that if, at the time the bridge was built, there was even a pipe dream that the road might be widened in the future.  Here's (https://goo.gl/maps/iLrTEuv7b4x) another example, in Southfield MI.  And here's (https://goo.gl/maps/3fq6L1Apw292) one more a couple miles away, in Farmington Hills.
Here is one of US-127 south of Jackson, MI:  https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1397836,-84.3643393,208a,35y,356.01h,44.97t/data=!3m1!1e3

Talk over the years have been to make this a 4- or 5-lane highway.  It was also one of the proposed routes for I-73.

Here is another one on NC 49 in Denton, NC: https://www.google.com/maps/@35.5061183,-80.1833738,1293m/data=!3m1!1e3
This example is 2 separate bridges, and judging by the street view, the northbound bridge was built long before the southbound.


Likewise US 20/NY 5 at the Livingston/Ontario county line: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.909601,-77.5588372,342m/data=!3m1!1e3
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: vdeane on October 03, 2018, 12:36:45 PM
Quote from: GenExpwy on October 03, 2018, 03:06:15 AM
Likewise US 20/NY 5 at the Livingston/Ontario county line: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.909601,-77.5588372,342m/data=!3m1!1e3
Looks like it was replaced with a single bridge.
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: SSR_317 on October 06, 2018, 01:26:57 PM
Quote from: Eth on October 01, 2018, 10:21:50 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 01, 2018, 04:16:17 PM
The Camino Colombia (Toll TX-255) splits into a divided highway for an intersection with a gravel road (https://goo.gl/maps/7SZjretxxQq).  That has always seemed a bit excessive to me.

Probably makes it easier in case they want to upgrade that to an interchange some day. Those carriageways get converted into the exit ramps and all they have to do is build an overpass in the middle.
That's how they built a lot of the Bruce Woodbury Last Vegas Beltway (Clark CR 215) when it was in "interim configuration". At many future interchange locations, the alignment basically used the exit/entry ramps to/from crossroad at-grade intersections until funding was available to build the grade separations and the freeway mainline over/under them. This is a fairly common practice in building new freeways in rapidly-growing areas when money is tight.
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: skluth on October 06, 2018, 05:11:04 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on October 01, 2018, 11:33:54 PM
Quote from: sparker on September 29, 2018, 04:01:08 PM
Particular to Caltrans' decision to board the roundabout wagon train big-time:

"Why is there a traffic circle out in the middle of nowhere?"

Got that from some friends -- who moved to Lompoc recently -- after their first encounter of the roundabout at the CA 154/246 junction east of Solvang.

This drives me nuts about rural Wisconsin.  Especially in situations where it's just a low-volume T-intersection.

Not a T. But this surprised me on the way to my Godmother's funeral in Chilton several years ago.

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.2129443,-88.1569104,17z

WI 57 used to enter Forest Junction on Church St. You can still see evidence of the old curve before they extended the diagonal to Cemetery Road which was WI-57 south of US 10.
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: epzik8 on October 16, 2018, 03:14:34 AM
There appears to be a crosswalk within the ramp from University Avenue (U.S. 189) to I-15 in Provo, Utah.
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: kphoger on October 16, 2018, 12:10:52 PM
Quote from: epzik8 on October 16, 2018, 03:14:34 AM
There appears to be a crosswalk within the ramp from University Avenue (U.S. 189) to I-15 in Provo, Utah.

I'm not seeing it.  Link to the location?
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: vdeane on October 16, 2018, 12:49:30 PM
Maybe he's referring to the pedestrian path the loops under the ramp and University Ave?
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: US 89 on October 16, 2018, 01:19:31 PM
^^He's most likely referring to this (https://goo.gl/maps/kBtsxPxaYNy).




Quote from: SSR_317 on October 06, 2018, 01:26:57 PM
Quote from: Eth on October 01, 2018, 10:21:50 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 01, 2018, 04:16:17 PM
The Camino Colombia (Toll TX-255) splits into a divided highway for an intersection with a gravel road (https://goo.gl/maps/7SZjretxxQq).  That has always seemed a bit excessive to me.

Probably makes it easier in case they want to upgrade that to an interchange some day. Those carriageways get converted into the exit ramps and all they have to do is build an overpass in the middle.
That's how they built a lot of the Bruce Woodbury Last Vegas Beltway (Clark CR 215) when it was in "interim configuration". At many future interchange locations, the alignment basically used the exit/entry ramps to/from crossroad at-grade intersections until funding was available to build the grade separations and the freeway mainline over/under them. This is a fairly common practice in building new freeways in rapidly-growing areas when money is tight.

Yeah, that's very likely a future interchange. This is also how the Mountain View Corridor is being built in western Salt Lake County, Utah -- at least the part north of Old Bingham Highway. The segments south of Old Bingham and along 2100 North are the future one-way Texas-style frontage roads.
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: kphoger on October 16, 2018, 01:32:36 PM
Quote from: epzik8 on October 16, 2018, 03:14:34 AM
There appears to be a crosswalk within the ramp from University Avenue (U.S. 189) to I-15 in Provo, Utah.

Quote from: US 89 on October 16, 2018, 01:19:31 PM
^^He's most likely referring to this (https://goo.gl/maps/kBtsxPxaYNy).

But none of that path is a crosswalk.
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: Paulinator66 on October 16, 2018, 04:11:37 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 01, 2018, 02:02:11 PM
Near me in Wichita...  Here (https://goo.gl/maps/Dhdek5tLiu72) is a four-lane bridge in the middle of a two-lane road.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/De+Soto,+MO+63020/@39.82888,-89.5926875,159m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x87d8e2c0d8a809b7:0x69484eecc130dfeb!8m2!3d38.1394978!4d-90.5551258
About 15 years ago IDOT upgraded all overpasses for I-55 though the Springfield area to 3 lanes but, then, never widened the highway. So we've had 3-lane bridges for each direction ever since then but only 2 lane roads.  Kind of like your situation.  However, now they have new plans to upgrade this whole section through Springfield but they want to tear everything out and start from scratch.  That means we paid millions for upgrades that never got used.  Illinois is sure a great place to live.
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: Roadsguy on October 16, 2018, 06:45:30 PM
Quote from: Paulinator66 on October 16, 2018, 04:11:37 PM
About 15 years ago IDOT upgraded all overpasses for I-55 though the Springfield area to 3 lanes but, then, never widened the highway. So we've had 3-lane bridges for each direction ever since then but only 2 lane roads.  Kind of like your situation.

PennDOT did something similar in the '90s when they reconstructed I-81 between Harrisburg and I-78. They widened all the bridges, but the only widening they did was the recent glorified auxiliary lane between 83 and the next exit (Paxtonia/Linglestown).
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: ErmineNotyours on October 17, 2018, 10:01:26 AM
Quote from: Paulinator66 on October 16, 2018, 04:11:37 PM
About 15 years ago IDOT upgraded all overpasses for I-55 though the Springfield area to 3 lanes but, then, never widened the highway. So we've had 3-lane bridges for each direction ever since then but only 2 lane roads.  Kind of like your situation.  However, now they have new plans to upgrade this whole section through Springfield but they want to tear everything out and start from scratch.  That means we paid millions for upgrades that never got used.  Illinois is sure a great place to live.

Take heart, the same thing happened in Washington State.  It seemed not long after the state rebuilt the concrete rails on the bridges between Kent-Des Moines Road and Federal Way on I-5, they were knocked down again and widened for a carpool lane.  However, before the lane could be built, they ran out of money so they just paved the shoulder and narrowed the lanes.  Google Street View. (https://goo.gl/maps/afPEhSDGC3G2)
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: bcroadguy on October 18, 2018, 07:10:55 AM
I've always found this setup pretty bizarre.

From Google Maps, this looks like a fairly normal interchange: https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2421442,-124.0673096,15.2z

Nothing looks out of the ordinary when you begin to exit Highway 19 either: https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2430149,-124.0664506,3a,29.7y,107.39h,87.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0wgbA47wUmvz8PPmEB2A-g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (Streetview)

But when you exit, instead of passing over the highway on a flyover as you would expect from seeing the map, you cross it at an at-grade intersection where no turns are allowed whatsoever: https://www.google.com/maps/@49.240793,-124.0607868,3a,67.4y,60.54h,91.94t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4hHmGA7eeEeHBwylkk4YpA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (Streetview)

I don't know why they didn't just build a regular intersection with left turn lanes here if an interchange was too expensive.
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: hotdogPi on October 18, 2018, 07:53:45 AM
Quote from: bcroadguy on October 18, 2018, 07:10:55 AM
I've always found this setup pretty bizarre.

From Google Maps, this looks like a fairly normal interchange: https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2421442,-124.0673096,15.2z

Nothing looks out of the ordinary when you begin to exit Highway 19 either: https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2430149,-124.0664506,3a,29.7y,107.39h,87.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0wgbA47wUmvz8PPmEB2A-g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (Streetview)

But when you exit, instead of passing over the highway on a flyover as you would expect from seeing the map, you cross it at an at-grade intersection where no turns are allowed whatsoever: https://www.google.com/maps/@49.240793,-124.0607868,3a,67.4y,60.54h,91.94t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4hHmGA7eeEeHBwylkk4YpA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (Streetview)

I don't know why they didn't just build a regular intersection with left turn lanes here if an interchange was too expensive.

That configuration is a 2-phase traffic light; a typical 3-way intersection with left arrows requires 3 phases.
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: bzakharin on October 18, 2018, 09:54:01 AM
Quote from: 1 on October 18, 2018, 07:53:45 AM
Quote from: bcroadguy on October 18, 2018, 07:10:55 AM
I've always found this setup pretty bizarre.

From Google Maps, this looks like a fairly normal interchange: https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2421442,-124.0673096,15.2z

Nothing looks out of the ordinary when you begin to exit Highway 19 either: https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2430149,-124.0664506,3a,29.7y,107.39h,87.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0wgbA47wUmvz8PPmEB2A-g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (Streetview)

But when you exit, instead of passing over the highway on a flyover as you would expect from seeing the map, you cross it at an at-grade intersection where no turns are allowed whatsoever: https://www.google.com/maps/@49.240793,-124.0607868,3a,67.4y,60.54h,91.94t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4hHmGA7eeEeHBwylkk4YpA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (Streetview)

I don't know why they didn't just build a regular intersection with left turn lanes here if an interchange was too expensive.

That configuration is a 2-phase traffic light; a typical 3-way intersection with left arrows requires 3 phases.
More surprising to me are exit numbers on a road with traffic lights. I know there are places in the US that do this, but in my area this is just such an alien concept (Yes, I know the Garden State Parkway used to have traffic lights in Cape May County, even numbering those intersections as exits, but that was always going to be a temporary situation that just lasted longer than expected).
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: Roadsguy on October 18, 2018, 10:40:20 AM
Quote from: 1 on October 18, 2018, 07:53:45 AM
Quote from: bcroadguy on October 18, 2018, 07:10:55 AM
I've always found this setup pretty bizarre.

From Google Maps, this looks like a fairly normal interchange: https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2421442,-124.0673096,15.2z

Nothing looks out of the ordinary when you begin to exit Highway 19 either: https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2430149,-124.0664506,3a,29.7y,107.39h,87.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0wgbA47wUmvz8PPmEB2A-g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (Streetview)

But when you exit, instead of passing over the highway on a flyover as you would expect from seeing the map, you cross it at an at-grade intersection where no turns are allowed whatsoever: https://www.google.com/maps/@49.240793,-124.0607868,3a,67.4y,60.54h,91.94t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4hHmGA7eeEeHBwylkk4YpA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (Streetview)

I don't know why they didn't just build a regular intersection with left turn lanes here if an interchange was too expensive.

That configuration is a 2-phase traffic light; a typical 3-way intersection with left arrows requires 3 phases.

A T intersection yes, but not if they left out the other left turn like the current configuration does. If all they did was replace the glorified jughandle with a double-left, it would not only still be two-phase, but the southbound(?) through movement wouldn't need to be signalized.

Seems more like making it easier for future upgrades. That whole bypass around Nanaimo is limited-access.
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: kphoger on October 19, 2018, 01:26:54 PM
Quote from: Roadsguy on October 18, 2018, 10:40:20 AM
Quote from: 1 on October 18, 2018, 07:53:45 AM
Quote from: bcroadguy on October 18, 2018, 07:10:55 AM
I've always found this setup pretty bizarre.

From Google Maps, this looks like a fairly normal interchange: https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2421442,-124.0673096,15.2z

Nothing looks out of the ordinary when you begin to exit Highway 19 either: https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2430149,-124.0664506,3a,29.7y,107.39h,87.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0wgbA47wUmvz8PPmEB2A-g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (Streetview)

But when you exit, instead of passing over the highway on a flyover as you would expect from seeing the map, you cross it at an at-grade intersection where no turns are allowed whatsoever: https://www.google.com/maps/@49.240793,-124.0607868,3a,67.4y,60.54h,91.94t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4hHmGA7eeEeHBwylkk4YpA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (Streetview)

I don't know why they didn't just build a regular intersection with left turn lanes here if an interchange was too expensive.

That configuration is a 2-phase traffic light; a typical 3-way intersection with left arrows requires 3 phases.

A T intersection yes, but not if they left out the other left turn like the current configuration does. If all they did was replace the glorified jughandle with a double-left, it would not only still be two-phase, but the southbound(?) through movement wouldn't need to be signalized.

I'm not following.  1's reply makes sense to me, but your contradiction does not.
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: vdeane on October 19, 2018, 01:55:05 PM
The opposing direction to the ramp with a traffic light is itself a ramp that merges onto BC 19 like any normal interchange, so that traffic light is one-way for traffic crossing BC 19.  If the jughandle were replaced with a left turn, there would be no need for traffic on BC 19 south to stop, since there is no road for people to turn left onto BC 19 south from (additionally, right turns from BC 19 north onto the ramp are prohibited).
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: kphoger on October 19, 2018, 02:29:52 PM
Quote from: vdeane on October 19, 2018, 01:55:05 PM
The opposing direction to the ramp with a traffic light is itself a ramp that merges onto BC 19 like any normal interchange, so that traffic light is one-way for traffic crossing BC 19.  If the jughandle were replaced with a left turn, there would be no need for traffic on BC 19 south to stop, since there is no road for people to turn left onto BC 19 south from (additionally, right turns from BC 19 north onto the ramp are prohibited).

Got it now.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: bcroadguy on October 20, 2018, 06:16:30 AM
Quote from: bzakharin on October 18, 2018, 09:54:01 AM
Quote from: 1 on October 18, 2018, 07:53:45 AM
Quote from: bcroadguy on October 18, 2018, 07:10:55 AM
I've always found this setup pretty bizarre.

From Google Maps, this looks like a fairly normal interchange: https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2421442,-124.0673096,15.2z

Nothing looks out of the ordinary when you begin to exit Highway 19 either: https://www.google.com/maps/@49.2430149,-124.0664506,3a,29.7y,107.39h,87.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0wgbA47wUmvz8PPmEB2A-g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (Streetview)

But when you exit, instead of passing over the highway on a flyover as you would expect from seeing the map, you cross it at an at-grade intersection where no turns are allowed whatsoever: https://www.google.com/maps/@49.240793,-124.0607868,3a,67.4y,60.54h,91.94t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4hHmGA7eeEeHBwylkk4YpA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (Streetview)

I don't know why they didn't just build a regular intersection with left turn lanes here if an interchange was too expensive.

That configuration is a 2-phase traffic light; a typical 3-way intersection with left arrows requires 3 phases.
More surprising to me are exit numbers on a road with traffic lights. I know there are places in the US that do this, but in my area this is just such an alien concept (Yes, I know the Garden State Parkway used to have traffic lights in Cape May County, even numbering those intersections as exits, but that was always going to be a temporary situation that just lasted longer than expected).

It's pretty unusual around here too. The only intersection in BC with an exit number that isn't on Highway 19 I can think of was at Highway 91 (a full freeway other than this one stupid intersection) and 72nd Ave near Vancouver. It was finally replaced by an interchange about a month ago: https://www.google.com/maps/@49.1323503,-122.9284263,3a,26.9y,2.48h,86.35t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sxkHs96drjJu2OQqxR1jXvQ!2e0!5s20170901T000000!7i13312!8i6656

The recently built Highway 17 has a mix of intersections and interchanges, but only the interchanges have exit numbers.
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: JREwing78 on October 20, 2018, 04:13:07 PM
There's something similar in Benton Harbor, MI, on the I-94 business loop:

From an overhead view, it looks like a typical interchange:
https://goo.gl/maps/etnACUMGMkk

But look closer. Instead of an overpass, it's an at-grade intersection:
https://goo.gl/maps/tJo4gyBpxfG2
https://goo.gl/maps/4MyD1KdocFp

But you still have ramps to get on the highway:
https://goo.gl/maps/WG9CzKQtVBN2

Thankfully, no turns at the at-grade:
https://goo.gl/maps/2jYayLhcEvx
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: bcroadguy on October 21, 2018, 05:51:38 AM
That's really bizarre, especially considering that a future upgrade to an interchange is probably unlikely since the highway narrows to a 3 lane surface street shortly afterwards.

That practically uncontrolled (unless you count the perpetually blinking yellow lights over the intersection) school crosswalk looks pretty dangerous.
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: kphoger on October 22, 2018, 01:49:21 PM
Quote from: JREwing78 on October 20, 2018, 04:13:07 PM
There's something similar in Benton Harbor, MI, on the I-94 business loop:

From an overhead view, it looks like a typical interchange:
https://goo.gl/maps/etnACUMGMkk

But look closer. Instead of an overpass, it's an at-grade intersection:
https://goo.gl/maps/tJo4gyBpxfG2
https://goo.gl/maps/4MyD1KdocFp

But you still have ramps to get on the highway:
https://goo.gl/maps/WG9CzKQtVBN2

Thankfully, no turns at the at-grade:
https://goo.gl/maps/2jYayLhcEvx

Functionally, this is no different than the highway having frontage roads from which all turns must be made.  But it certainly looks different because of the shape.
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: CardInLex on October 23, 2018, 08:55:45 PM
The new Kennedy interchange in Louisville has an interesting set up (this may get complicated but check out the aerials and it will make sense):

Traffic from I-65 North to I-71 North (let's call them group A) goes underneath traffic from I-65 North to I-64 East (group B) to then just go over them again.

To try to summarize, A goes under B. Then a few seconds later A goes over B.

https://goo.gl/maps/Un7idDAX4xz

Note: The aerial imagery on Google for Louisville is also unique as it was taken during the flood earlier this year. You can see how far out of the banks the Ohio River got. The Third Street exit from I-64 West was underwater, as was the Zorn Ave exit from I-71. The flood wall was closed in several places.
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: GenExpwy on October 24, 2018, 05:41:07 AM
An odd one I noticed in the Canso Causeway area of Nova Scotia:

On the Cape Breton Island side, NS 104 comes to an end at NS 4. A ramp carries traffic entering 104, while 104 continues on with two-way traffic, separated by a double yellow line.
https://www.google.com/maps/@45.6187645,-61.3296214,3a,37.5y,8.21h,86.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKx2jiJskFMoEyYxS_tuT4A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Except that, a half-mile later, the oncoming lane simply disappears. It is literally a lane from nowhere.
https://www.google.com/maps/@45.6251598,-61.3327076,3a,75y,308.06h,81.5t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_kZrnKM2407xhnAElRZKDA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

The only way any motorist can possibly use that half-mile-long lane is to make a three-point turn in the middle of the road at the start of the lane.
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on October 24, 2018, 07:26:58 AM
It appears to me that a Port Hawkesbury bypass was planned at one time, hence that configuration.
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: jeffandnicole on October 24, 2018, 07:53:56 AM
Quote from: JREwing78 on October 20, 2018, 04:13:07 PM
There's something similar in Benton Harbor, MI, on the I-94 business loop:

From an overhead view, it looks like a typical interchange:
https://goo.gl/maps/etnACUMGMkk

But look closer. Instead of an overpass, it's an at-grade intersection:
https://goo.gl/maps/tJo4gyBpxfG2
https://goo.gl/maps/4MyD1KdocFp

But you still have ramps to get on the highway:
https://goo.gl/maps/WG9CzKQtVBN2

Thankfully, no turns at the at-grade:
https://goo.gl/maps/2jYayLhcEvx

This is very similar to a NJ jughandle where there's a ramp before or after the intersection (or both) for people to make their turns.
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: thenetwork on October 24, 2018, 08:23:31 PM
Living in Colorado for about 12 years now, one thing I FINALLY noticed that is odd:

In much of Colorado, most major and secondary intersections will either have multi-way or two-way STOP signs at their crossing or a traffic signal (R/Y/G) arrangement.

VERY RARELY
will you see on a CDOT-maintained road an intersection which has an installation of overhead flashing red/yellow beacons to compliment the STOP signs.  In all of Western Colorado, I can only think of one CDOT intersection in New Castle which has a single 4-way flashing beacon installation.  The handful of remaining (4 or 5) intersections with overhead flashing beacons I know of are limited to intersections of roads maintained by Mesa County.

Even in most intersections that were converted to roundabouts did not have overhead flashing beacons in their previous lives. 

Meanwhile, states like Ohio, Indiana and Michigan (to name a few) are very pro-flashing beacons at many intersections throughout the state.

Are their other states that are very limited into using these simple overhead signals? 

Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: Eth on October 24, 2018, 10:22:52 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on October 24, 2018, 08:23:31 PM
Are their other states that are very limited into using these simple overhead signals?

They're not common in Georgia, but they do exist. The only one in my area that I can think of on a state highway is this one on GA 260 (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7399917,-84.3347891,3a,75y,277.74h,91.13t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZaLzGy6bgeUlUZ90GNN-3w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), which isn't even really done correctly because it only has flashing beacons for east/west traffic despite being a 4-way stop.
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: Ian on October 25, 2018, 03:58:44 PM
Quote from: JREwing78 on October 20, 2018, 04:13:07 PM
There's something similar in Benton Harbor, MI, on the I-94 business loop:

From an overhead view, it looks like a typical interchange:
https://goo.gl/maps/etnACUMGMkk

But look closer. Instead of an overpass, it's an at-grade intersection:
https://goo.gl/maps/tJo4gyBpxfG2
https://goo.gl/maps/4MyD1KdocFp

But you still have ramps to get on the highway:
https://goo.gl/maps/WG9CzKQtVBN2

Thankfully, no turns at the at-grade:
https://goo.gl/maps/2jYayLhcEvx

I find it interesting how the broken-yellow striped passing zone on the intersecting road goes right through the intersection and its stop signs. Not sure how common it is in Michigan, but I can't fathom seeing something like that anywhere in the Northeast.
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: CapeCodder on October 27, 2018, 04:45:20 PM
What about that inglorious northern terminus of I-65? I see they have fixed it now.
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: Revive 755 on October 28, 2018, 12:00:38 PM
Quote from: CapeCodder on October 27, 2018, 04:45:20 PM
What about that inglorious northern terminus of I-65? I see they have fixed it now.

Partially fixed IMHO - it still has a 540 degree movement to get on the Toll Road eastbound from NB I-65.  Drifting into fictional territory, but I could go for a more direct NB to EB connection, given the number of times I've used I-65 after giving up on the Borman due to traffic.
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: CapeCodder on October 28, 2018, 12:46:56 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on October 28, 2018, 12:00:38 PM
Quote from: CapeCodder on October 27, 2018, 04:45:20 PM
What about that inglorious northern terminus of I-65? I see they have fixed it now.

Partially fixed IMHO - it still has a 540-degree movement to get on the Toll Road eastbound from NB I-65.  Drifting into fictional territory, but I could go for a more direct NB to EB connection, given the number of times I've used I-65 after giving up on the Borman due to traffic.

I'm glad that I-170 was fixed. Many memories of almost running into Eager Road at rush-hour. Eager Road still has access to 170 though.
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: theline on October 29, 2018, 01:31:51 AM
Quote from: Revive 755 on October 28, 2018, 12:00:38 PM
Quote from: CapeCodder on October 27, 2018, 04:45:20 PM
What about that inglorious northern terminus of I-65? I see they have fixed it now.

Partially fixed IMHO - it still has a 540 degree movement to get on the Toll Road eastbound from NB I-65.  Drifting into fictional territory, but I could go for a more direct NB to EB connection, given the number of times I've used I-65 after giving up on the Borman due to traffic.

A big "roger" on that comment. Not only is it 540 degrees, but the total length of the ramps is about a mile at 35 MPH (if I correctly remember the calculations I made for another thread). If you're unlucky enough to get behind a truck, good luck.
Title: Re: Most Surprising Road Configurations and Control Devices
Post by: US 89 on November 21, 2018, 11:11:52 AM
Quote from: Eth on October 24, 2018, 10:22:52 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on October 24, 2018, 08:23:31 PM
Are their other states that are very limited into using these simple overhead signals?

They're not common in Georgia, but they do exist. The only one in my area that I can think of on a state highway is this one on GA 260 (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7399917,-84.3347891,3a,75y,277.74h,91.13t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZaLzGy6bgeUlUZ90GNN-3w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), which isn't even really done correctly because it only has flashing beacons for east/west traffic despite being a 4-way stop.

I could swear there was a flashing yellow beacon (with red for cross traffic) somewhere on GA 5/515 north of 575, but I’m not finding it on google.