I don't know if this topic has been made, but. While driving I thought of something, while seeing something. It seems that trucks have the most authority on the road. I said this because I watched a truck. Piggyback on a car that was going to slow in front of him. Now from experience driving, I know trucks will do this to make you move over, if you're going too slow. So then I thought of a list & if you could number Cars, Trucks, Pedestrians & Bikers (Because bikers think they are cars, and pedestrians at the same time. They deserve their own section). From 1 being low of entitlement on the road. While 5 being most respected on the road.
Car: Between 3/4. I feel like cars are treated like the most underrated thing man as ever made.
Truck: 5. Just because their big they make the shots.
Pedestrian: 1&5 this can vary from state to state.
Bikers: 1&5 this can also vary from state to state.
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Truck: 5
Car: 3-4.
Bicycle: 5 by the bicyclist, 1 by other cars.
Pedestrian: 2-4 by the pedestrian, 1 by other cars.
Motorcycle: 5 by the motorcyclist, 3-4 by other cars.
Police car, fire truck, ambulance: 6 when lights are flashing, 5 otherwise.
City bus or long-distance bus: 4
School bus: 5 if in your own district, 3 otherwise
In general, the entitlement number is more than the respect number.
Quote from: 1 on October 25, 2018, 02:38:29 PM
Truck: 5
Car: 3-4.
Bicycle: 5 by the bicyclist, 1 by other cars.
Pedestrian: 2-4 by the pedestrian, 1 by other cars.
Motorcycle: 5 by the motorcyclist, 3-4 by other cars.
Police car, fire truck, ambulance: 6 when lights are flashing, 5 otherwise.
City bus or long-distance bus: 4
School bus: 5 if in your own district, 3 otherwise
In general, the entitlement number is more than the respect number.
I agree. & The emergency vehicles/Buses are a good one Those are very entitled & respected on the road. Cars keep their distance from motorcycles aswell.
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Hummer H1: 5
RVs: 4-5 by them, 3-ish by everyone else. On two lane roads this could be more like 5 and 1.
Cars that look like highway patrol in your rear-view mirror, even though they aren't, but you don't realize it till they're past you: 5
Quote from: kphoger on October 25, 2018, 03:34:00 PM
Cars that look like highway patrol in your rear-view mirror, even though they aren't, but you don't realize it till they're past you: 5
Yes. This deserves a upvote +1.
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One clarification. Bikers drive motorcycles. Cyclists ride bicycles.
Quote from: inkyatari on October 25, 2018, 04:25:09 PM
Quote from: roadman on October 25, 2018, 04:09:02 PM
One clarification. Bikers drive motorcycles. Cyclists ride bicycles.
Actually, you just muddied it.. Motorcyclists drive motorcycles. Bikers ride bicycles.
Around here, it's as roadman stated it. I have NEVER heard of someone on a bicycle referred to as a "biker".
Quote from: Tonytone on October 25, 2018, 03:42:27 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 25, 2018, 03:34:00 PM
Cars that look like highway patrol in your rear-view mirror, even though they aren't, but you don't realize it till they're past you: 5
Yes. This deserves a upvote +1.
As a former Grand Marquis driver, I got that impression from time to time, since mine looked like a Crown Vic.
Quote from: vdeane on October 25, 2018, 07:47:10 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on October 25, 2018, 04:25:09 PM
Quote from: roadman on October 25, 2018, 04:09:02 PM
One clarification. Bikers drive motorcycles. Cyclists ride bicycles.
Actually, you just muddied it.. Motorcyclists drive motorcycles. Bikers ride bicycles.
Around here, it's as roadman stated it. I have NEVER heard of someone on a bicycle referred to as a "biker".
Depends on who you ask/where you're talking about, I feel. I use them interchangeably.
Quote from: kphoger on October 25, 2018, 03:34:00 PM
Cars that look like highway patrol in your rear-view mirror, even though they aren't, but you don't realize it till they're past you: 5
Yep. This happens to me all the time, especially with Explorers, Taurus's, and Chargers. I've gotten in the habit of checking to see if they have a regular, standard, license plate; if they do, then they're not highway patrol.
I also believe drivers of these types of vehicles are aware of the "scare" factor and think they have a right to drive faster/more aggressively than everyone else; "move out of my way or I'll get even closer and turn my imaginary flashing lights on!". They are still not as overbearing as trucks, though; all trucks are annoying but I think Rams are the worst!
Quote from: ipeters61 on October 26, 2018, 09:30:56 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on October 25, 2018, 03:42:27 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 25, 2018, 03:34:00 PM
Cars that look like highway patrol in your rear-view mirror, even though they aren't, but you don't realize it till they're past you: 5
Yes. This deserves a upvote +1.
As a former Grand Marquis driver, I got that impression from time to time, since mine looked like a Crown Vic.
I've owned an '85 Grand Marquis, an '89 Chevy Caprice (Classic trim level, not the PPV package), a '97 Crown Vic. (LX model, not the police-packaged P71) & now own a 2011 Crown Vic that was a former rental (again, not a police packaged model); and there's been several times my cars have been mistaken for unmarked cruisers. Heck, my '89 Caprice Classic was a tu-tone (black/grey) w/wire wheel covers and someone
still mistook me for township police officer (I was standing next to the car in a parking lot wearing a brown suede bomber jacket w/blue denim jeans (hardly a police uniform)).
Side bar: Mercury used to offer police packages for its base-model full-sizes (the Monterey, than later the base Marquis) up through 1981.
Quote from: seicer on October 25, 2018, 02:44:28 PM
Hummer H1: 5
Hummers H2 & H3 deserve to be brake-checked down into a ravine.
Quote from: vdeane on October 25, 2018, 07:47:10 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on October 25, 2018, 04:25:09 PM
Quote from: roadman on October 25, 2018, 04:09:02 PM
One clarification. Bikers drive motorcycles. Cyclists ride bicycles.
Actually, you just muddied it.. Motorcyclists drive motorcycles. Bikers ride bicycles.
Around here, it's as roadman stated it. I have NEVER heard of someone on a bicycle referred to as a "biker".
Guy I carpool with calls himself a biker, even though all he does is ride a bicycle. He's also the most pussiest person I know. All he does is complain about real bikers.
I just thought of another one. Tow trucks! With their entitlement number @6. This is the only vehicle I know of, that speeds with 1 or two cars on its back. & this vehicle can also take you're vehicle lol.
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Quote from: PHLBOS on October 26, 2018, 10:06:13 AM
Quote from: ipeters61 on October 26, 2018, 09:30:56 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on October 25, 2018, 03:42:27 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 25, 2018, 03:34:00 PM
Cars that look like highway patrol in your rear-view mirror, even though they aren't, but you don't realize it till they're past you: 5
Yes. This deserves a upvote +1.
As a former Grand Marquis driver, I got that impression from time to time, since mine looked like a Crown Vic.
I've owned an '85 Grand Marquis, an '89 Chevy Caprice (Classic trim level, not the PPV package), a '97 Crown Vic. (LX model, not the police-packaged P71) & now own a 2011 Crown Vic that was a former rental (again, not a police packaged model); and there's been several times my cars have been mistaken for unmarked cruisers. Heck, my '89 Caprice Classic was a tu-tone (black/grey) w/wire wheel covers and someone still mistook me for township police officer (I was standing next to the car in a parking lot wearing a brown suede bomber jacket w/blue denim jeans (hardly a police uniform)).
Side bar: Mercury used to offer police packages for its base-model full-sizes (the Monterey, than later the base Marquis) up through 1981.
People that drive their Tahoe's & suburbans with black tint & sometimes people get the old Tahoe's with the police rims, that can really get you. I usually look at the front grill for lights. Inside top windshield or the top to see if they have that skinny ass light bar. Other than that, seems like places that have police tahoes. Sell more dealership, tahoes to people & places with police, explorers sell more dealership explorers. I.E . Pa/De.
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Anyone driving any vehicle with a government license plate. Politicians.
Years back a Chicago TV station checked the speed of politicians going from Chicago to Springfield on I-55, and almost every one was going way over the speed limit. They even confronted some of these politicians. Unfortunately its been a long time since I've seen this report.
Quote from: inkyatari on October 26, 2018, 11:49:37 AM
Anyone driving any vehicle with a government license plate. Politicians.
Years back a Chicago TV station checked the speed of politicians going from Chicago to Springfield on I-55, and almost every one was going way over the speed limit. They even confronted some of these politicians. Unfortunately its been a long time since I've seen this report.
So those "U.S Government" plates are politicians? In that case I see alot of those all the time.
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Quote from: Tonytone on October 26, 2018, 12:16:47 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on October 26, 2018, 11:49:37 AM
Anyone driving any vehicle with a government license plate. Politicians.
Years back a Chicago TV station checked the speed of politicians going from Chicago to Springfield on I-55, and almost every one was going way over the speed limit. They even confronted some of these politicians. Unfortunately its been a long time since I've seen this report.
So those "U.S Government" plates are politicians? In that case I see alot of those all the time.
Here, in Illinois, he's talking about green-on-white plates that start with the letter "M" (municipalities, townships, counties, PACE, CTA, etc.) and those that start with the letter "U" (state, ISTHA).
Quote from: Brandon on October 26, 2018, 12:24:53 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on October 26, 2018, 12:16:47 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on October 26, 2018, 11:49:37 AM
Anyone driving any vehicle with a government license plate. Politicians.
Years back a Chicago TV station checked the speed of politicians going from Chicago to Springfield on I-55, and almost every one was going way over the speed limit. They even confronted some of these politicians. Unfortunately its been a long time since I've seen this report.
So those "U.S Government" plates are politicians? In that case I see alot of those all the time.
Here, in Illinois, he's talking about green-on-white plates that start with the letter "M" (municipalities, townships, counties, PACE, CTA, etc.) and those that start with the letter "U" (state, ISTHA).
Oh ok. All states have those type of plates eh?
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Quote from: Tonytone on October 26, 2018, 01:04:59 PM
Quote from: Brandon on October 26, 2018, 12:24:53 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on October 26, 2018, 12:16:47 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on October 26, 2018, 11:49:37 AM
Anyone driving any vehicle with a government license plate. Politicians.
Years back a Chicago TV station checked the speed of politicians going from Chicago to Springfield on I-55, and almost every one was going way over the speed limit. They even confronted some of these politicians. Unfortunately its been a long time since I've seen this report.
So those “U.S Government” plates are politicians? In that case I see alot of those all the time.
Here, in Illinois, he's talking about green-on-white plates that start with the letter "M" (municipalities, townships, counties, PACE, CTA, etc.) and those that start with the letter "U" (state, ISTHA).
Oh ok. All states have those type of plates eh?
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Going to always be state specific.
NJ has MG or SG at the beginning or end of the tag number. But for the most part in this state, they're used by regular employees of the town or state; not politicians.
Some politicians have specialized license plates, including ones that regular people can't get. One politician that I live near has SS on his tag. Any normal personalized tag can't have fewer than 3 characters in this state.
Most police cars have MG or SG on them as well. However, unmarked cars generally do not, and they appear as a regular tag number.
I've also seen cases in NJ where departments may have guidelines on how fast they can drive, including in marked police cars. It's quite common on NJ highways to see municipal police cars outside their town doing the speed limit (probably going to/from court in a different town, or some meeting elsewhere in the state). Most people know these guys can be easily passed without worry. The scardy cat going 65 in the left lane refusing to pass one can really f-up traffic though.
US Government plates would be found on any car registered to the umpteen number of departments and divisions of the US Government. More than likely they're just regular employees on government business (or maybe not on government business...I'm not following them to find out).
Quote from: inkyatari on October 26, 2018, 11:49:37 AM
Anyone driving any vehicle with a government license plate.
Delaware state cars will send an email to your boss if you're going more than 10 over, I think. That was a pain when they installed the high-speed E-ZPass lanes, since they were still marked as 5 MPH in the GPS even though their actual speed limit is 65.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 26, 2018, 01:22:12 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on October 26, 2018, 01:04:59 PM
Quote from: Brandon on October 26, 2018, 12:24:53 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on October 26, 2018, 12:16:47 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on October 26, 2018, 11:49:37 AM
Anyone driving any vehicle with a government license plate. Politicians.
Years back a Chicago TV station checked the speed of politicians going from Chicago to Springfield on I-55, and almost every one was going way over the speed limit. They even confronted some of these politicians. Unfortunately its been a long time since I've seen this report.
So those "U.S Government" plates are politicians? In that case I see alot of those all the time.
Here, in Illinois, he's talking about green-on-white plates that start with the letter "M" (municipalities, townships, counties, PACE, CTA, etc.) and those that start with the letter "U" (state, ISTHA).
Oh ok. All states have those type of plates eh?
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Going to always be state specific.
NJ has MG or SG at the beginning or end of the tag number. But for the most part in this state, they're used by regular employees of the town or state; not politicians.
Some politicians have specialized license plates, including ones that regular people can't get. One politician that I live near has SS on his tag. Any normal personalized tag can't have fewer than 3 characters in this state.
Most police cars have MG or SG on them as well. However, unmarked cars generally do not, and they appear as a regular tag number.
I've also seen cases in NJ where departments may have guidelines on how fast they can drive, including in marked police cars. It's quite common on NJ highways to see municipal police cars outside their town doing the speed limit (probably going to/from court in a different town, or some meeting elsewhere in the state). Most people know these guys can be easily passed without worry. The scardy cat going 65 in the left lane refusing to pass one can really f-up traffic though.
US Government plates would be found on any car registered to the umpteen number of departments and divisions of the US Government. More than likely they're just regular employees on government business (or maybe not on government business...I'm not following them to find out).
Yeah, I see federal government plates all the time around here, what with an active Air Force base and a VA hospital not far from my house. And also, the highway department uses state government license plates, and I don't feel any need to pay them any special deference while we're driving down the highway. Ditto the maintenance trucks at state parks.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181026/fba8fea634c522ff46285db36248f7de.jpg)
These are the plates we are speaking about right?
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List of departments here: http://www.pl8s.com/govt.htm (http://www.pl8s.com/govt.htm)
Quote from: ipeters61 on October 26, 2018, 09:30:56 AM
Depends on who you ask/where you're talking about, I feel. I use them interchangeably.
Ever see a line of Schwinn ten speeds outside a biker bar?
Quote from: roadman on October 26, 2018, 02:17:35 PM
Quote from: ipeters61 on October 26, 2018, 09:30:56 AM
Depends on who you ask/where you're talking about, I feel. I use them interchangeably.
Ever see a line of Schwinn ten speeds outside a biker bar?
I thought it was the Motorcycle bar? & depends where you are, in the city you will probably see bicycles outside a bar.
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Quote from: ipeters61 on October 26, 2018, 09:30:56 AM
Depends on who you ask/where you're talking about, I feel. I use them interchangeably.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 26, 2018, 10:36:36 AM
Guy I carpool with calls himself a biker, even though all he does is ride a bicycle. He's also the most pussiest person I know. All he does is complain about real bikers.
So that's two confirmed cases of a person calling a cyclist a "biker". I think we might need some more reports before calling it acceptable usage...
Quote from: kphoger on October 26, 2018, 02:24:09 PM
Quote from: ipeters61 on October 26, 2018, 09:30:56 AM
Depends on who you ask/where you're talking about, I feel. I use them interchangeably.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 26, 2018, 10:36:36 AM
Guy I carpool with calls himself a biker, even though all he does is ride a bicycle. He's also the most pussiest person I know. All he does is complain about real bikers.
So that's two confirmed cases of a person calling a cyclist a "biker". I think we might need some more reports before calling it acceptable usage...
Biking [emoji1452], Bikers [emoji2199] cyclist [emoji2186] motorcycle [emoji965]. I believe all these terms are interchangeable with each other. AROUND these parts, people call both bikes & motorcycle riders. Bikers. Shit I've seen people with motors on the bikes so. I think the term can be used both ways.
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Quote from: kphoger on October 26, 2018, 02:24:09 PMSo that's two confirmed cases of a person calling a cyclist a "biker". I think we might need some more reports before calling it acceptable usage...
I consider the term
biker in reference to a person riding a human-powered pedal cycle to be idiomatic only in the phrase
mountain biker.
Biker by itself implies black leather, chains, "hogs," and a whole host of highly colored and mostly negative cultural baggage.
^^^^^^^^^
Can't recall their names right now, but in pre-term-limits CA, there were several state legislators with gobs of seniority (and generally sitting on every committee that dispersed funds!) from the Bay Area -- that commuted daily to Sacramento when in session, and who regularly were seen (or clocked) doing 90+ on I-80, usually in the straight stretch between Vacaville & Davis -- generally in both directions. Since CA didn't have specific legislative license plates, occasionally they'd get pulled over by CHP or the local LEO's -- but they'd (a) identify themselves and get off with a warning or (b) take the ticket, hand it to someone else in the Capitol, and it was dealt with off-book. It became something of a political football in the late '80's and early '90's (members of both parties -- and both genders -- were regular offenders). For a while they were issued very visible large reflective bumper stickers identifying them as state "officials", ostensibly to make officers "back off" when approaching from the rear. But with today's political atmosphere -- and term limits -- functioning as an entitled asshole doesn't contribute to the ability to move from office to office (a side-effect of term limits!), so it hasn't been an issue (or publicized as such) for the last 20-odd years.
I'm not sure what vehicle is more entitled.
But it sure seems that a lot of owners of expensive vehicles think they're entitled to something. My thought is, "Just because you paid too much for your car, doesn't mean you bought the road."
Quote from: GaryV on October 26, 2018, 04:42:34 PM
I'm not sure what vehicle is more entitled.
But it sure seems that a lot of owners of expensive vehicles think they're entitled to something. My thought is, "Just because you paid too much for your car, doesn't mean you bought the road."
Reminds me of something a guy I knew used to say. He was a farmer out in western Kansas, used to be a long-haul trucker for a while. Anyway, he had a habit of straddling the yellow line on rural highways. His defense: "I pay taxes on both sides of the road!"
Quote from: GaryV on October 26, 2018, 04:42:34 PM
But it sure seems that a lot of owners of expensive vehicles think they're entitled to something. My thought is, "Just because you paid too much for your car, doesn't mean you bought the road."
As silly as it sounds, I find that the low-numbered (read, expensive) license plate drivers in Delaware seem to act that way, but I have no verifiable proof of it.
Speaking of politicians, here's one from Arizona (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rep-paul-mosley-arizona-pulled-over-speeding-video-140-mph/).
Quote from: ipeters61 on October 26, 2018, 05:25:38 PM
Quote from: GaryV on October 26, 2018, 04:42:34 PM
But it sure seems that a lot of owners of expensive vehicles think they're entitled to something. My thought is, "Just because you paid too much for your car, doesn't mean you bought the road."
As silly as it sounds, I find that the low-numbered (read, expensive) license plate drivers in Delaware seem to act that way, but I have no verifiable proof of it.
Speaking of politicians, here's one from Arizona (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rep-paul-mosley-arizona-pulled-over-speeding-video-140-mph/).
I believe it. Most of those people own land & businesses that are influential to Delaware & It's people.
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Horse above anything else without an emergency lighting setup.
Vehicles with blue lights.
Quote from: Beltway on October 26, 2018, 11:42:11 PM
Vehicles with blue lights.
Yeah -- really!? San Jose is full of black motorcycles (SJ cops' vehicles -- bikes & other vehicles -- are navy blue, so it's hard to differentiate after dusk) with strategically placed blue LED clusters to make them look like cop bikes. Must be a game to them -- pulling out from driveways or cross streets and following your vehicle for several blocks before either passing you or turning off. In keeping with this thread -- possibly they feel
entitled to fuck with you!
Thankfully, in Arkansas, they're building bike paths to get as many bicycles off the road as possible. At least the ones that are most likely to hold up traffic for more than a mile. Northwest Arkansas is connected by 40+ miles of bike path, with very little sharing roadway with traffic.
Looks like they are about to build 60 miles of path from Little Rock to Hot Springs as well.
http://ardot.gov/public_meetings/2018/061562/061562.aspx
Quote from: MikieTimT on November 14, 2018, 09:15:29 AM
Thankfully, in Arkansas, they're building bike paths to get as many bicycles off the road as possible. At least the ones that are most likely to hold up traffic for more than a mile. Northwest Arkansas is connected by 40+ miles of bike path, with very little sharing roadway with traffic.
Drivers who get held up by a bicycle for more than a mile need to learn how to drive.
Quote from: kphoger on November 14, 2018, 01:11:28 PM
Quote from: MikieTimT on November 14, 2018, 09:15:29 AM
Thankfully, in Arkansas, they're building bike paths to get as many bicycles off the road as possible. At least the ones that are most likely to hold up traffic for more than a mile. Northwest Arkansas is connected by 40+ miles of bike path, with very little sharing roadway with traffic.
Drivers who get held up by a bicycle for more than a mile need to learn how to drive.
Correct. As a cyclist I get nervous as hell when people hang behind me because they don't know how to drive properly.
Quote from: SectorZ on November 14, 2018, 01:47:01 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 14, 2018, 01:11:28 PM
Quote from: MikieTimT on November 14, 2018, 09:15:29 AM
Thankfully, in Arkansas, they're building bike paths to get as many bicycles off the road as possible. At least the ones that are most likely to hold up traffic for more than a mile. Northwest Arkansas is connected by 40+ miles of bike path, with very little sharing roadway with traffic.
Drivers who get held up by a bicycle for more than a mile need to learn how to drive.
Correct. As a cyclist I get nervous as hell when people hang behind me because they don't know how to drive properly.
It makes you wonder what they would do if the road were five feet narrower, even without cyclists. Just park the car, get out, and start sobbing?
Quote from: SectorZ on November 14, 2018, 01:47:01 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 14, 2018, 01:11:28 PM
Quote from: MikieTimT on November 14, 2018, 09:15:29 AM
Thankfully, in Arkansas, they're building bike paths to get as many bicycles off the road as possible. At least the ones that are most likely to hold up traffic for more than a mile. Northwest Arkansas is connected by 40+ miles of bike path, with very little sharing roadway with traffic.
Drivers who get held up by a bicycle for more than a mile need to learn how to drive.
Correct. As a cyclist I get nervous as hell when people hang behind me because they don't know how to drive properly.
Don't get me started. And don't get me started on how packs of motorcyclists make things worse for cyclists.
One thing I've noticed is that folks driving larger trucks (tricked-out F150's, Ram 1500, etc.) -- tend to be the ones who have the smallest level of etiquette or even recognition that there's someone else on the road aside from themselves. This even carries over to parking lots -- at least anecdotally on a personally observed basis, they're the most likely to leave a shopping cart in the adjacent space after using it, making other potential parkers (a) avoid that space, or (b) get out and move the cart (I normally am reasonably tolerant, but that's something that royally pisses me off!).
Quote from: sparker on November 14, 2018, 05:08:13 PM
they're the most likely to leave a shopping cart in the adjacent space after using it, making other potential parkers (a) avoid that space, or (b) get out and move the cart (I normally am reasonably tolerant, but that's something that royally pisses me off!).
Don't get
me started. My first job was pushing shopping carts full-time.
Quote from: kphoger on November 15, 2018, 09:54:54 AM
Quote from: sparker on November 14, 2018, 05:08:13 PM
they're the most likely to leave a shopping cart in the adjacent space after using it, making other potential parkers (a) avoid that space, or (b) get out and move the cart (I normally am reasonably tolerant, but that's something that royally pisses me off!).
Don't get me started. My first job was pushing shopping carts full-time.
And I'm guessing you had to do it before they had motorized "trams" pushing the carts by RC! My sympathies. But, OTOH, some stores could do a better job of distributing their "cart corrals"; whole sections of larger parking lots often feature none. Nevertheless, I'd attribute much of the problem to (a) laziness (b) distraction [kids in car, etc.] -- or simply (c) not giving a shit!
Quote from: sparker on November 15, 2018, 06:15:22 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 15, 2018, 09:54:54 AM
Quote from: sparker on November 14, 2018, 05:08:13 PM
they're the most likely to leave a shopping cart in the adjacent space after using it, making other potential parkers (a) avoid that space, or (b) get out and move the cart (I normally am reasonably tolerant, but that's something that royally pisses me off!).
Don't get me started. My first job was pushing shopping carts full-time.
And I'm guessing you had to do it before they had motorized "trams" pushing the carts by RC! My sympathies. But, OTOH, some stores could do a better job of distributing their "cart corrals"; whole sections of larger parking lots often feature none. Nevertheless, I'd attribute much of the problem to (a) laziness (b) distraction [kids in car, etc.] -- or simply (c) not giving a shit!
No, I got to use the motorized cart with remote control as long as it wasn't raining outside. I was pretty darned efficient, having figured out that the range of the remote control was about 40 carts or so. It wasn't until a few months into my job that I was informed there was an official limit on how many carts to be attached to the front of that thing. Oh well.
My worst experience at that job was when I picked up a diaper that someone had left in the parking lot. I found out AFTER picking it up that not only was it beyond full of raunchy poop, but also that it hadn't even been bundled up–just kind of folded over.
I was fortunate enough to quit that job right at the beginning of Chicago winter weather, only had to push carts in the snow once or twice. Have you ever had to push a shopping cart through a few inches of snow? Now imagine trying to push four or five of them at a time. Oh yeah, and I only weight about 115 pounds or so.
Quote from: sparker on November 15, 2018, 06:15:22 PM
[And I'm guessing you had to do it before they had motorized "trams" pushing the carts by RC!
Reminded me of this famous ad:
(https://d26eb5y2jukpbz.cloudfront.net/ebs/archive/os/1992/media/92008A.jpg)
Quote from: sparker on November 15, 2018, 06:15:22 PM
Nevertheless, I'd attribute much of the problem to (a) laziness (b) distraction [kids in car, etc.] -- or simply (c) not giving a shit!
Also blame Publix which eschews cart corrals in favor of wasting employee time (and customers' money) by having bowtie clad employees roaming the parking lot picking up lazy peoples' carts like it was still 1955. I was once at a Publix walking a cart back to the store entrance when an employee came running after me: "Sir...you don't have to do that."
Likewise, I've encountered a few Panera franchises where employees roam around the dining area picking up used trays and dishes or actually encourage customers to "just leave them on your table" when leaving. What happens when these customers go to another Panera (or similar quick service restaurant) where pickup patrols aren't roaming around? They're perhaps unintentionally training customers to be lazy and messy.
Quote from: briantroutman on November 15, 2018, 06:51:17 PMAlso blame Publix which eschews cart corrals in favor of wasting employee time (and customers’ money) by having bowtie clad employees roaming the parking lot picking up lazy peoples’ carts like it was still 1955.
Hey, that's exactly how I got away from the drudgery of being indoors when I was 15-17. Lot check!
A few Publixes do have cart corrals, though they're a recent phenomenon. The bowties are optional (George Jenkins famously wore them), but the necktie was a requirement for male employees until 1994 or so.
So you're telling me that everyone always puts their carts away even with corrals? Because there's still errant carts everywhere I go.
Quote from: formulanone on November 15, 2018, 07:05:02 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on November 15, 2018, 06:51:17 PMAlso blame Publix which eschews cart corrals in favor of wasting employee time (and customers' money) by having bowtie clad employees roaming the parking lot picking up lazy peoples' carts like it was still 1955.
Hey, that's exactly how I got away from the drudgery of being indoors when I was 15-17. Lot check!
A few Publixes do have cart corrals, though they're a recent phenomenon. The bowties are optional (George Jenkins famously wore them), but the necktie was a requirement for male employees until 1994 or so.
So you're telling me that everyone always puts their carts away even with corrals? Because there's still errant carts everywhere I go.
I worked at Publix (where shopping is a pleasure) as a bagger, er, "front end associate" in the summer of 1995 and I definitely didn't have to wear a bowtie or necktie, just a polo shirt. Though I'm almost positive the store managers had to wear shirts and ties and the cashiers (male and female) had to wear bowties.
If I recall correctly, the reason Publix didn't have cart corrals in the parking lots was because the "front end associates" were supposed to bag the groceries, put the groceries in the cart, push the cart to the customer's car, load the groceries in the car, and then push the now-empty cart back into the store.
^^^^^^^^
Never patronized a Publix (probably not surprising for a west coaster!) -- thus my question is: were customers expected to tip these "front end associates" for their assistance?
Quote from: sparker on November 15, 2018, 07:52:57 PM
^^^^^^^^
Never patronized a Publix (probably not surprising for a west coaster!) -- thus my question is: were customers expected to tip these "front end associates" for their assistance?
IIRC, being from Florida, I believe I remember signs saying "Do not accept tips from customers" or maybe I'm thinking of my times working @Walmart.
iPhone
Quote from: Tonytone on November 15, 2018, 08:27:24 PM
Quote from: sparker on November 15, 2018, 07:52:57 PM
^^^^^^^^
Never patronized a Publix (probably not surprising for a west coaster!) -- thus my question is: were customers expected to tip these "front end associates" for their assistance?
IIRC, being from Florida, I believe I remember signs saying "Do not accept tips from customers" or maybe I'm thinking of my times working @Walmart.
There were little signs like "please, no tipping" but it was wasn't directly enforced. Implying that you
deserved a tip was a good way to be sent home for the rest of the week, if the customer called to complain. You'd make a dollar or two on most days, $5-10 on weekends if you knew how to schmooze. December was usually the best month for tips, even more if you sold Christmas trees.
I usually made better cash from two hours' of pizza delivery, but Publix's employee stock-ownership plan helped pay for my college years.
Quote from: sparker on November 15, 2018, 07:52:57 PM
^^^^^^^^
Never patronized a Publix (probably not surprising for a west coaster!) -- thus my question is: were customers expected to tip these "front end associates" for their assistance?
No, they weren't. If they offered a tip, we were to say "we don't/can't accept tips;" if they responded "oh, go on..." then we could accept it.
Quote from: formulanone on November 15, 2018, 08:47:39 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on November 15, 2018, 08:27:24 PM
Quote from: sparker on November 15, 2018, 07:52:57 PM
^^^^^^^^
Never patronized a Publix (probably not surprising for a west coaster!) -- thus my question is: were customers expected to tip these "front end associates" for their assistance?
IIRC, being from Florida, I believe I remember signs saying "Do not accept tips from customers" or maybe I'm thinking of my times working @Walmart.
There were little signs like "please, no tipping" but it was wasn't directly enforced. Implying that you deserved a tip was a good way to be sent home for the rest of the week, if the customer called to complain. You'd make a dollar or two on most days, $5-10 on weekends if you knew how to schmooze. December was usually the best month for tips, even more if you sold Christmas trees.
I usually made better cash from two hours' of pizza delivery, but Publix's employee stock-ownership plan helped pay for my college years.
Yea, thats how it went, crazy that a driving job can make you more money in one day then 40 hours a week. LGBOT (Lets Get Back On Topic) Seems that shopping carts [emoji1622] have more respect in Shopping centers then the cars that park, & The People who leave the carts in the middle of the parking spot or halfway in the parking spot & grassy median.
iPhone
Quote from: sparker on November 14, 2018, 05:08:13 PM
One thing I've noticed is that folks driving larger trucks (tricked-out F150's, Ram 1500, etc.) -- tend to be the ones who have the smallest level of etiquette or even recognition that there's someone else on the road aside from themselves. This even carries over to parking lots -- at least anecdotally on a personally observed basis, they're the most likely to leave a shopping cart in the adjacent space after using it, making other potential parkers (a) avoid that space, or (b) get out and move the cart (I normally am reasonably tolerant, but that's something that royally pisses me off!).
I remember one time in my hometown in northern Connecticut several years ago (bearing in mind it was still very close to Hartford!), a woman confronted a pickup truck driver about him parking closer to the store than the handicapped spaces (i.e. not in a parking space, directly in front of the store, arguably in the fire lane). And of course the guy was asserting his rights to her and that she should mind her own business.
Looking back, I wonder if he would pull over for an police car/ambulance/fire truck approaching from the rear with its lights/siren on.
^^^^^^^^^
Asserting his rights? If he was stopped at curbside near the store entrance but not in a designated parking place, then he has no rights to do so. I see this a lot -- again, pickups seem to be the most egregious offenders here -- guys (invariably the driver's male) essentially parked, usually for 20-30+ minutes, while waiting for their partners to shop and return to the vehicle. They seem to think that if they remain within the car, it's perfectly OK to block an access point rather than seek out a real parking place and simply keep an eye out for their partner exiting the store. The local Wal-Mart and Target stores seem to attract more than their share of this particular breed of driver.
Quote from: briantroutman on November 15, 2018, 06:51:17 PM
I've encountered a few Panera franchises where employees roam around the dining area picking up used trays and dishes or actually encourage customers to "just leave them on your table" when leaving. What happens when these customers go to another Panera (or similar quick service restaurant) where pickup patrols aren't roaming around? They're perhaps unintentionally training customers to be lazy and messy.
What would happen is that those customers would leave their trash on the table, then an employee would eventually come around and pick it up to throw away. This is called customer service, and it should be encouraged. I offer my congratulations to those few Panera establishments for treating their customers like patrons and not like busboys. If I want to take my own food to the table and then throw away my own trash, why not just stay home? A restaurant should be a place where people wait on you at least a little bit.
Quote from: ipeters61 on November 15, 2018, 10:22:46 PM
I remember one time in my hometown in northern Connecticut several years ago (bearing in mind it was still very close to Hartford!), a woman confronted a pickup truck driver about him parking closer to the store than the handicapped spaces (i.e. not in a parking space, directly in front of the store, arguably in the fire lane). And of course the guy was asserting his rights to her and that she should mind her own business.
Quote from: sparker on November 16, 2018, 04:49:06 AM
^^^^^^^^^
Asserting his rights? If he was stopped at curbside near the store entrance but not in a designated parking place, then he has no rights to do so. I see this a lot -- again, pickups seem to be the most egregious offenders here -- guys (invariably the driver's male) essentially parked, usually for 20-30+ minutes, while waiting for their partners to shop and return to the vehicle. They seem to think that if they remain within the car, it's perfectly OK to block an access point rather than seek out a real parking place and simply keep an eye out for their partner exiting the store. The local Wal-Mart and Target stores seem to attract more than their share of this particular breed of driver.
Assuming that the parking lot is private property and that the curb is not a marked fire lane, what law did he violate? If he was not in violation of a law, then he was indeed asserting his rights.
Quote from: kphoger on November 16, 2018, 11:15:15 AMAssuming that the parking lot is private property and that the curb is not a marked fire lane, what law did he violate? If he was not in violation of a law, then he was indeed asserting his rights.
I don't think anyone has a general right to be on private property that he or she does not own.
Quote from: J N Winkler on November 16, 2018, 11:35:26 AM
Quote from: kphoger on November 16, 2018, 11:15:15 AMAssuming that the parking lot is private property and that the curb is not a marked fire lane, what law did he violate? If he was not in violation of a law, then he was indeed asserting his rights.
I don't think anyone has a general right to be on private property that he or she does not own.
Virtually all the instances of the kind cited that I've personally witnessed have been of the type generally described as "double parking"; about half of all those came in areas that were clearly marked for (a) pedestrian egress from a store egress or (b) painted "NO PARKING" indications along the trafficway. Most of the remainder were just vehicles (again, with a preponderance of trucks) pulled up to a curb or along the edge of a marked driveway passing along the front side of said store. And you'd think if they did so, the driver would at least engage the 4-way flashers on the vehicle -- but no...........
I suppose it's a matter of authority -- and the perceived lack of a "common law" aspect regarding egress onto private property. Out here in CA many parking lots are posted to state that the provisions of the state vehicle code
does apply to the parking facilities, including the approach lanes. Nevertheless, that doesn't seem to affect certain motorists who simply choose to do what's most convenient for them regardless of how it affects the other users of those parking facilities. And the local police seem reluctant to deal with this sort of thing unless it accompanies a more serious offense (theft, public disturbance, etc.); despite sporadic postings of the sort mentioned above, enforcement is given mostly lip service if even that. In my experience, most store employees and management tend to shrug off situations outside the basic store walls -- at least until it starts costing them money!
Quote from: J N Winkler on November 16, 2018, 11:35:26 AM
Quote from: kphoger on November 16, 2018, 11:15:15 AMAssuming that the parking lot is private property and that the curb is not a marked fire lane, what law did he violate? If he was not in violation of a law, then he was indeed asserting his rights.
I don't think anyone has a general right to be on private property that he or she does not own.
As I understand the law: unless the owner of the property has indicated that a person is
not allowed on the property, then that person does not commit the crime of trespass by being on the property. That is to say, anyone
does generally have the right to be on private property, so long as it is open to the public and the property is not signed and/or fenced off.
So I'll double down on my claim. If the parking lot was on private property, he had not been told to leave the premises, the parking lot was open to the public, and the curb was not a marked fire lane–then he had every right to park there.
I'll put it this way: If a parking lot doesn't have any striped parking spaces at all, that doesn't mean everybody who parks there is in violation of the law.
^^^^^^^^^^
Next time I'm at any of the locations where this occurrence seems to happen, I'll check for fire lane status (and will check the vehicle code for "no parking" enforcement re private lots); since I'm at one or the other every few days, this won't take too long!
Quote from: kphoger on November 16, 2018, 12:06:41 PM
I'll put it this way: If a parking lot doesn't have any striped parking spaces at all, that doesn't mean everybody who parks there is in violation of the law.
Interesting concept -- whether there's an enforceable implication that if a parking lot
does contains specific spaces for parking, then parking in an area other than clearly marked for that purpose may be a "violation". I guess it comes down to whether an interpretation of that is permissive or restrictive -- and whether the property owner can legally exercise such an interpretation.
Quote from: sparker on November 16, 2018, 12:15:22 PM
and whether the property owner can legally exercise such an interpretation.
A property owner can tell you to park wherever the heck he wants to, because it's his property and you're on it. Or he can tell you to leave altogether. But I was gathering from the story that the owner hadn't become involved.
On a related note and tangentially related to another thread... My first job was pushing shopping carts full-time at a Target in the western suburbs of Chicago. It irked me when people would park in the marked fire lane in front of the store, waiting for someone to finish their shopping, just so they didn't have to find an actual parking spot. Sometimes they would actually run inside themselves and leave an unattended vehicle in the fire lane. So one day, when I had a train of about 30 or 40 carts going, I left them on the lot-side of just such a vehicle for a few minutes while I went inside to use the restroom. I came out to find the driver frustrated about being trapped in between the train of carts and the curb. He never actually said a word to me, but I got a little bit of pleasure out of the situation.
I think a little piece of my soul died that day as well.
Quote from: kphoger on November 16, 2018, 11:15:15 AM
If I want to take my own food to the table and then throw away my own trash, why not just stay home? A restaurant should be a place where people wait on you at least a little bit.
I understand the thinking (I'm paying money; I should get service). But if you want to be waited on, you'll find no shortage of sit-down restaurants offering table service–where prices are typically higher to cover that service, and you're further expected to leave a gratuity of at least 15% to compensate your server.
Quote from: briantroutman on November 16, 2018, 12:47:50 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 16, 2018, 11:15:15 AM
If I want to take my own food to the table and then throw away my own trash, why not just stay home? A restaurant should be a place where people wait on you at least a little bit.
I understand the thinking (I'm paying money; I should get service). But if you want to be waited on, you'll find no shortage of sit-down restaurants offering table service–where prices are typically higher to cover that service, and you're further expected to leave a gratuity of at least 15% to compensate your server.
Yes, I wish people understood this concept more. I've heard people say "why would I tip the waitress?" " they shouldn't pick that job if they rely on tips" Umm some of these waiters make more money in one day of tips, then a person with a paycheck job would in 2 weeks. Some people don't understand the simple concept of things. Just like how YOU should be able to park in from of a store "Not blocking fire lanes or doors" . I think the public is scared of robberies & getaway drivers like this is the 80's
iPhone
Quote from: briantroutman on November 16, 2018, 12:47:50 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 16, 2018, 11:15:15 AM
If I want to take my own food to the table and then throw away my own trash, why not just stay home? A restaurant should be a place where people wait on you at least a little bit.
I understand the thinking (I'm paying money; I should get service). But if you want to be waited on, you'll find no shortage of sit-down restaurants offering table service–where prices are typically higher to cover that service, and you're further expected to leave a gratuity of at least 15% to compensate your server.
Yeah, the thing to remember is that Panera Bread is NOT a sit-down restaurant; it's a fast-casual chain with more in common with a place like Five Guys. Some locations even want people to pick up the food from the counter, though most will bring it to the table.
Quote from: vdeane on November 16, 2018, 01:28:17 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on November 16, 2018, 12:47:50 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 16, 2018, 11:15:15 AM
If I want to take my own food to the table and then throw away my own trash, why not just stay home? A restaurant should be a place where people wait on you at least a little bit.
I understand the thinking (I'm paying money; I should get service). But if you want to be waited on, you'll find no shortage of sit-down restaurants offering table service–where prices are typically higher to cover that service, and you're further expected to leave a gratuity of at least 15% to compensate your server.
Yeah, the thing to remember is that Panera Bread is NOT a sit-down restaurant; it's a fast-casual chain with more in common with a place like Five Guys. Some locations even want people to pick up the food from the counter, though most will bring it to the table.
Panera kind of straddles the line, in my opinion. There are other restaurant chains in that same niche that
do bring your food out and bus your tables for you. Heck, there are even fast-food restaurants that do that. Just to be clear, I do bus my own table at Panera, as I do at any restaurant that clearly has trash cans scattered around for that purpose. I'm just very grateful for restaurants that take care of that so their customers don't have to, and I wish there were more restaurants out there like that.
Quote from: Tonytone on November 16, 2018, 01:00:20 PM
Just like how YOU should be able to park in from of a store "Not blocking fire lanes or doors" .
I don't park in front of stores like that. My point about that was that I have the right to, and so do you. You and I both choose to lay down certain rights in order to be civilized members of society, but that doesn't mean other people should pick a fight with us if we don't.
Quote from: kphoger on November 16, 2018, 12:04:28 PMQuote from: J N Winkler on November 16, 2018, 11:35:26 AM
Quote from: kphoger on November 16, 2018, 11:15:15 AMAssuming that the parking lot is private property and that the curb is not a marked fire lane, what law did he violate? If he was not in violation of a law, then he was indeed asserting his rights.
I don't think anyone has a general right to be on private property that he or she does not own.
As I understand the law: unless the owner of the property has indicated that a person is not allowed on the property, then that person does not commit the crime of trespass by being on the property. That is to say, anyone does generally have the right to be on private property, so long as it is open to the public and the property is not signed and/or fenced off.
That is not how I understand the law. When the property owner refrains from posting no-trespassing signs and you then set foot onto the property, you are not there as of right; rather, you are there on sufferance, and the owner can ask you to leave at any time and for any reason or none, although the owner does have an obligation not to discriminate in the provision of public accommodation (e.g., he or she can't run a restaurant and then refuse to serve black customers; similarly, he or she can refuse to serve Sarah Huckabee Sanders but cannot refuse to serve all women, and he or she can refuse to serve Mitch McConnell but cannot refuse to serve all men aged over 65).
Quote from: kphoger on November 16, 2018, 12:04:28 PMSo I'll double down on my claim. If the parking lot was on private property, he had not been told to leave the premises, the parking lot was open to the public, and the curb was not a marked fire lane–then he had every right to park there.
I would say that, if the parking lot were in an UVC jurisdiction without pass-through for private parking lots, that he had the ability to park there unless and until the owner asked him to leave. I do not believe that qualifies as a legal right.
The places Sparker is talking about are mostly in California, which does have pass-through for private parking lots under CVC if they are appropriately posted (IIRC, Caltrans has sign specs for this purpose). This creates the possibility of local law enforcement asking the antisocial driver to cure his behavior without the owner having to become involved, though as a practical matter (as Sparker acknowledges), neither will take action unless circumstances compel him or her to do so.
In UVC direct adopter jurisdictions, I think pass-through enforcement may be limited to handicapped parking spaces; I am not sure marked fire lanes are actually enforceable. (I confess that I rely on the limited enforceability within parking lots to roll through stop signs when I can see that the way is clear.) I am actually not sure a requirement to park within marked stalls only is enforceable independently of owner's intervention, absent signposting to that effect ("Park In Marked Spaces Only") and some sort of vehicle law pass-through.
In Wichita these issues have surfaced with the downtown branch of the YMCA. When it opened in 2012, it was very popular, so the parking lot was flooded, and although the Y leases spaces across a nearby street for use as overflow parking, many members parked next to aisle ends--thus obstructing vehicle paths out of parking spaces--rather than use the second-best parking. The Y eventually posted official traffic signs at the aisle ends indicating that they were not to be used for parking and that vehicles found parked there could be towed under the provisions of such and such a city ordinance.
In regards to the city's own lots, I have my doubts as to the enforceability of the white-on-green signs indicating that reversing into parking spaces is prohibited. (Not all city lots are so posted, but not all of the lots with these signs are in fact metered, which is the usual reason for requiring vehicles to park nose-in.)
Quote from: J N Winkler on November 16, 2018, 01:55:49 PM
I would say that, if the parking lot were in an UVC jurisdiction without pass-through for private parking lots, that he had the ability to park there unless and until the owner asked him to leave. I do not believe that qualifies as a legal right.
This is fair. It is something less than a "right". His actions are something that is neither prohibited by statute nor protected by statute.
Quote from: J N Winkler on November 16, 2018, 01:55:49 PM
The places Sparker is talking about are mostly in California, which does have pass-through for private parking lots under CVC if they are appropriately posted (IIRC, Caltrans has sign specs for this purpose).
But the specific store that
ipeters61 actually witnessed the confrontation at is in Connecticut, not California.
Quote from: J N Winkler on November 16, 2018, 01:55:49 PM
(I confess that I rely on the limited enforceability within parking lots to roll through stop signs when I can see that the way is clear.)
As do I.
Quote from: J N Winkler on November 16, 2018, 01:55:49 PM
In regards to the city's own lots, I have my doubts as to the enforceability of the white-on-green signs indicating that reversing into parking spaces is prohibited. (Not all city lots are so posted, but not all of the lots with these signs are in fact metered, which is the usual reason for requiring vehicles to park nose-in.)
This comes up every couple of years on social media.
As far as I can tell, it is only a requirement in the following locations:
[Sec. 11.52.050(b)] Metered municipal parking lots
[Sec. 11.52.090(e)] Municipal parking garages
[Sec. 11.52.115(b)] City parking lots in Old Town (Washington to the tracks, Douglas to Central)
[Sec. 11.52.110(2)] City parking lots at 1411 E 21st Street (wtf?) and Nomar (21st & Market)
But there is a carve-out for vehicles displaying handicap placards on the dashboard or suspended from the mirror.
Quote from: Wichita Code of Ordinances, Sec. 11.52.020(25)(f)
Persons operating vehicles that meet the requirements set forth in subsection (25)(a) of this section may back into public parking spaces or park diagonally in two regular parking spaces if there are no handicapped parking spaces available,
What about the security cars that pull up the minute you park, with you're hazardz on & clearly in front a business that you would go in right quick & grab an order you placed online & they are ready to call a tow truck or the police because you "cannot park here" but the signs clearly state you cannot "park" while "standing" or "stopping" is allowed?
iPhone
Quote from: kphoger on November 16, 2018, 01:40:59 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 16, 2018, 01:28:17 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on November 16, 2018, 12:47:50 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 16, 2018, 11:15:15 AM
If I want to take my own food to the table and then throw away my own trash, why not just stay home? A restaurant should be a place where people wait on you at least a little bit.
I understand the thinking (I'm paying money; I should get service). But if you want to be waited on, you'll find no shortage of sit-down restaurants offering table service–where prices are typically higher to cover that service, and you're further expected to leave a gratuity of at least 15% to compensate your server.
Yeah, the thing to remember is that Panera Bread is NOT a sit-down restaurant; it's a fast-casual chain with more in common with a place like Five Guys. Some locations even want people to pick up the food from the counter, though most will bring it to the table.
Panera kind of straddles the line, in my opinion. There are other restaurant chains in that same niche that do bring your food out and bus your tables for you. Heck, there are even fast-food restaurants that do that. Just to be clear, I do bus my own table at Panera, as I do at any restaurant that clearly has trash cans scattered around for that purpose. I'm just very grateful for restaurants that take care of that so their customers don't have to, and I wish there were more restaurants out there like that.
Reading through this thread, I was actually going to say the exact thing that
vdeane said about Panera. The other thing about Panera, though, speaking very generally, is that they cater to the upper-middle classes, people who probably
would get table service anywhere else they went out to eat. Because they have such a name for quality, it seems like they should have better service, i.e. they are not quite meeting the standards set by chains they are being compared to.
Quote from: Tonytone on November 16, 2018, 02:36:19 PM
What about the security cars that pull up the minute you park, with you're hazardz on & clearly in front a business that you would go in right quick & grab an order you placed online & they are ready to call a tow truck or the police because you "cannot park here" but the signs clearly state you cannot "park" while "standing" or "stopping" is allowed?
Those are private security guards authorized by the business owner to operate on their behalf. They are not the police.
Quote from: kphoger on November 16, 2018, 02:44:37 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on November 16, 2018, 02:36:19 PM
What about the security cars that pull up the minute you park, with you're hazardz on & clearly in front a business that you would go in right quick & grab an order you placed online & they are ready to call a tow truck or the police because you "cannot park here" but the signs clearly state you cannot "park" while "standing" or "stopping" is allowed?
Those are private security guards authorized by the business owner to operate on their behalf. They are not the police.
Definitely authorized by the shopping plazas them selves. They are more nuisance then safety, since IIRC a (No disrespect intended)70 year old man cannot chase down robbers. Now a days, you cannot pull up in front of any store & just walk in. They want you to park 600 feet away, & walk to pick something up that takes 2 seconds.
iPhone
Quote from: kphoger on November 16, 2018, 12:25:37 PM
I got a little bit of pleasure out of the situation.
I think a little piece of my soul died that day as well.
Yeah, why is it that those two are basically inseparable? :pan:
Quote from: webny99 on November 16, 2018, 02:52:01 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 16, 2018, 12:25:37 PM
I got a little bit of pleasure out of the situation.
I think a little piece of my soul died that day as well.
Yeah, why is it that those two are basically inseparable? :pan:
Basic human empathy! Not applicable to those afflicted with sociopathic tendencies.
Quote from: sparker on November 16, 2018, 06:19:31 PM
Quote from: webny99 on November 16, 2018, 02:52:01 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 16, 2018, 12:25:37 PM
I got a little bit of pleasure out of the situation.
I think a little piece of my soul died that day as well.
Yeah, why is it that those two are basically inseparable? :pan:
Basic human empathy! Not applicable to those afflicted with sociopathic tendencies.
It bugs me when I pull up to a hotel parking space, get my luggage, backpack, camera bag, and while ambling up to the hotel's front door...some jerk nearly runs me over, and leaves their car idling right in front of the door, while the other patron cuts in front of the line to check-in.
I wistfully hope they get a room by an elevator entrance and they film a porno movie in the room next door to those folks.
Quote from: formulanone on November 16, 2018, 06:29:37 PM
Quote from: sparker on November 16, 2018, 06:19:31 PM
Quote from: webny99 on November 16, 2018, 02:52:01 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 16, 2018, 12:25:37 PM
I got a little bit of pleasure out of the situation.
I think a little piece of my soul died that day as well.
Yeah, why is it that those two are basically inseparable? :pan:
Basic human empathy! Not applicable to those afflicted with sociopathic tendencies.
It bugs me when I pull up to a hotel parking space, get my luggage, backpack, camera bag, and while ambling up to the hotel's front door...some jerk nearly runs me over, and leaves their car idling right in front of the door, while the other patron cuts in front of the line to check-in.
I wistfully hope they get a room by an elevator entrance and they film a porno movie in the room next door to those folks.
Probably wouldn't bother them -- they'd just order up "on demand" the porno that was shot next-door a month or two ago!
Our minds are a dark and despicable place, aren't they?
As the lone locomotive engineer on this forum, I feel like I must contribute the ultimately most entitled vehicle to any road:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3695216
Quote from: cjk374 on November 17, 2018, 01:52:58 PM
As the lone locomotive engineer on this forum, I feel like I must contribute the ultimately most entitled vehicle to any road:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3695216
"Can we stop for an ice cream, Daddy?"
".......uhh.......sorry, kid, we'll be a mile down the track before that happens!"
Quote from: cjk374 on November 17, 2018, 01:52:58 PM
As the lone locomotive engineer on this forum, I feel like I must contribute the ultimately most entitled vehicle to any road:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3695216
What, the HHR? Sure, they were the backbone of many rental fleets for many years, but they weren't THAT bad.
Quote from: cjk374 on November 17, 2018, 01:52:58 PM
As the lone locomotive engineer on this forum, I feel like I must contribute the ultimately most entitled vehicle to any road:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3695216
THAT IS AWESOME...but also looks like it would be a pain in the ass if you had to deal with it every day!
Quote from: Tonytone on November 16, 2018, 01:00:20 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on November 16, 2018, 12:47:50 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 16, 2018, 11:15:15 AM
If I want to take my own food to the table and then throw away my own trash, why not just stay home? A restaurant should be a place where people wait on you at least a little bit.
I understand the thinking (I'm paying money; I should get service). But if you want to be waited on, you'll find no shortage of sit-down restaurants offering table service–where prices are typically higher to cover that service, and you're further expected to leave a gratuity of at least 15% to compensate your server.
Yes, I wish people understood this concept more. I've heard people say "why would I tip the waitress?" " they shouldn't pick that job if they rely on tips" Umm some of these waiters make more money in one day of tips, then a person with a paycheck job would in 2 weeks. Some people don't understand the simple concept of things. Just like how YOU should be able to park in from of a store "Not blocking fire lanes or doors" . I think the public is scared of robberies & getaway drivers like this is the 80's
iPhone
I am a waiter, and my pay is better, in my opinion, than if I had a regular paycheck job. It's not like I can make an average person's two week check in one day, but I make enough to get by on a four day workweek, with the occasional fifth. The downside is that it's not easy work, especially when I get needy customers, and it isn't always dependable, as a slow day can hurt. Otherwise, I'm happy with it.
Quote from: cjk374 on November 17, 2018, 01:52:58 PM
As the lone locomotive engineer on this forum, I feel like I must contribute the ultimately most entitled vehicle to any road:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3695216
That picture wouldn't happen to have been taken in LaGrange, KY, would it?
Quote from: Tonytone on November 16, 2018, 02:36:19 PM
What about the security cars that pull up the minute you park, with you're hazardz on & clearly in front a business that you would go in right quick & grab an order you placed online & they are ready to call a tow truck or the police because you "cannot park here" but the signs clearly state you cannot "park" while "standing" or "stopping" is allowed?
Full offense, but those seem less entitled than those who feel they can park wherever they want because they don't want to find an actual parking space like that. I don't know many stores where someone can "park for a couple minutes just to run in" (which always ends up being more than that) and not make it difficult for two lanes of traffic to sneak by you. Add in how this also impedes views of pedestrians who typically don't give a second thought crossing the street and you have a mess.
Quote from: sparker on November 18, 2018, 02:01:08 AM
Quote from: cjk374 on November 17, 2018, 01:52:58 PM
As the lone locomotive engineer on this forum, I feel like I must contribute the ultimately most entitled vehicle to any road:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3695216
That picture wouldn't happen to have been taken in LaGrange, KY, would it?
The picture description does say La Grange, KY.
Quote from: cjk374 on November 18, 2018, 09:31:46 AM
Quote from: sparker on November 18, 2018, 02:01:08 AM
Quote from: cjk374 on November 17, 2018, 01:52:58 PM
As the lone locomotive engineer on this forum, I feel like I must contribute the ultimately most entitled vehicle to any road:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3695216
That picture wouldn't happen to have been taken in LaGrange, KY, would it?
The picture description does say La Grange, KY.
Had to go to full screen to catch the description box at the top of the image. Looked familiar; went through there a couple of decades ago when I was doing some business in Eminence, a few miles to the east. Street running of RR tracks has always been of interest to me -- thanks for running an exceptionally good photo!
Quote from: cjk374 on November 17, 2018, 01:52:58 PM
As the lone locomotive engineer on this forum, I feel like I must contribute the ultimately most entitled vehicle to any road:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3695216
Aaand I'm reminded of Inception (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQIpLBLLQoQ)
Quote from: intelati49 on November 19, 2018, 05:39:20 PM
Quote from: cjk374 on November 17, 2018, 01:52:58 PM
As the lone locomotive engineer on this forum, I feel like I must contribute the ultimately most entitled vehicle to any road:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3695216
Aaand I'm reminded of Inception (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQIpLBLLQoQ)
I think that white Ford Econoline is
still falling, eight years later.
Quote from: cjk374 on November 17, 2018, 01:52:58 PM
As the lone locomotive engineer on this forum, I feel like I must contribute the ultimately most entitled vehicle to any road:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3695216
Im actually shocked we don't see more towns & cities like this.
iPhone
Quote from: Tonytone on November 19, 2018, 06:34:40 PM
Quote from: cjk374 on November 17, 2018, 01:52:58 PM
As the lone locomotive engineer on this forum, I feel like I must contribute the ultimately most entitled vehicle to any road:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3695216
Im actually shocked we don't see more towns & cities like this.
iPhone
Most street running of "Class 1" RR main lines disappeared by WW II; for the most part growing towns decided that trains running down the middle of the street wasn't terribly conducive to either safety or property values. Of course, that meant finding another place to put the tracks; the ones that stayed put in the streets did so because local topography mitigated against a bypass or reroute, or the street running was short enough that it wasn't deemed problematic. Besides La Grange, other cities with significant main-line street trackage include Oakland, CA (UP/Amtrak), Fresno, CA (BNSF/Amtrak), and Monongahela, PA (CSX). A famous/infamous relatively long (about 2 miles) stretch of CSX in Lafayette, IN featured main line street running before 2004; a bypass was completed at that time.
Quote from: sparker on November 20, 2018, 02:36:06 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on November 19, 2018, 06:34:40 PM
Quote from: cjk374 on November 17, 2018, 01:52:58 PM
As the lone locomotive engineer on this forum, I feel like I must contribute the ultimately most entitled vehicle to any road:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3695216
Im actually shocked we don't see more towns & cities like this.
iPhone
Most street running of "Class 1" RR main lines disappeared by WW II; for the most part growing towns decided that trains running down the middle of the street wasn't terribly conducive to either safety or property values. Of course, that meant finding another place to put the tracks; the ones that stayed put in the streets did so because local topography mitigated against a bypass or reroute, or the street running was short enough that it wasn't deemed problematic. Besides La Grange, other cities with significant main-line street trackage include Oakland, CA (UP/Amtrak), Fresno, CA (BNSF/Amtrak), and Monongahela, PA (CSX). A famous/infamous relatively long (about 2 miles) stretch of CSX in Lafayette, IN featured main line street running before 2004; a bypass was completed at that time.
So with the disappearance of "class 1" trains in the cities & towns; these unused tracks were then used as trolly lines afterward?
iPhone
Quote from: Tonytone on November 20, 2018, 02:54:21 AM
Quote from: sparker on November 20, 2018, 02:36:06 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on November 19, 2018, 06:34:40 PM
Quote from: cjk374 on November 17, 2018, 01:52:58 PM
As the lone locomotive engineer on this forum, I feel like I must contribute the ultimately most entitled vehicle to any road:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3695216
Im actually shocked we don't see more towns & cities like this.
iPhone
Most street running of "Class 1" RR main lines disappeared by WW II; for the most part growing towns decided that trains running down the middle of the street wasn't terribly conducive to either safety or property values. Of course, that meant finding another place to put the tracks; the ones that stayed put in the streets did so because local topography mitigated against a bypass or reroute, or the street running was short enough that it wasn't deemed problematic. Besides La Grange, other cities with significant main-line street trackage include Oakland, CA (UP/Amtrak), Fresno, CA (BNSF/Amtrak), and Monongahela, PA (CSX). A famous/infamous relatively long (about 2 miles) stretch of CSX in Lafayette, IN featured main line street running before 2004; a bypass was completed at that time.
So with the disappearance of "class 1" trains in the cities & towns; these unused tracks were then used as trolly lines afterward?
iPhone
Paved over & forgotten mostly.
Salt Lake City had a decent amount of street-running track, but almost all of it was removed around 2000 as part of the Gateway Olympics projects. The UP mainline was routed along 400 West between around 200 South and 900 South. 500 West carried a D&RGW passenger route, but was later used for the Amtrak route through SLC. When the UP and D&RGW merged, all rail traffic was eventually moved to the original D&RGW freight mainline to the west (between 600 and 700 West), and a new Amtrak station was built.
Here's a remaining segment of the 400 West line: https://goo.gl/maps/A44b5kNKeqJ2
This, by the way, means that Salt Lake City has two historic train depots (the UP and Rio Grande), neither of which are actually on a rail line anymore. It also means that Salt Lake County has a spare N/S railroad right-of-way, which has largely been used for light rail.
Quote from: sparker on November 20, 2018, 02:36:06 AM
Besides La Grange, other cities with significant main-line street trackage include Oakland, CA (UP/Amtrak), Fresno, CA (BNSF/Amtrak), and Monongahela, PA (CSX). A famous/infamous relatively long (about 2 miles) stretch of CSX in Lafayette, IN featured main line street running before 2004; a bypass was completed at that time.
Also commuter rail in Michigan City, IN–including a
station stop on the sidewalk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11th_Street_station_(Indiana)).
Quote from: kphoger on November 20, 2018, 11:16:40 AM
Quote from: sparker on November 20, 2018, 02:36:06 AM
Besides La Grange, other cities with significant main-line street trackage include Oakland, CA (UP/Amtrak), Fresno, CA (BNSF/Amtrak), and Monongahela, PA (CSX). A famous/infamous relatively long (about 2 miles) stretch of CSX in Lafayette, IN featured main line street running before 2004; a bypass was completed at that time.
Also commuter rail in Michigan City, IN–including a station stop on the sidewalk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11th_Street_station_(Indiana)).
And another long street section not to overlook: BNSF's former Colorado Southern line in Fort Collins, CO; this hosts a regular procession of long trains of empty coal hopper cars heading back north to the Powder River mines (most of which are arrayed along WY 59 between Douglas and Gillette. Since both that city and Boulder to the south raised objections to loaded coal trains passing through their towns, BNSF opted to reroute Texas-bound coal trains on their other N-S regional line through Sydney, NE and Sterling, CO, rejoining the Boulder/Ft. Collins line in Denver. Still, it's quite a sight to see 100+ car empty trains passing through a residential street in Ft. Collins.
Back to topic, though, I would agree that freight trains are perhaps the most entitled vehicles on the road. Although an armored procession of political figures might come close, because they could conceivably radio to have a freight train stop and wait for them.
Quote from: kphoger on November 20, 2018, 12:59:58 PM
Back to topic, though, I would agree that freight trains are perhaps the most entitled vehicles on the road. Although an armored procession of political figures might come close, because they could conceivably radio to have a freight train stop and wait for them.
Where do freight trains exist on roads?
Quote from: 1 on November 20, 2018, 01:22:50 PM
Where do freight trains exist on roads?
Ummm...
↓ HERE ↓
Quote from: cjk374 on November 17, 2018, 01:52:58 PM
As the lone locomotive engineer on this forum, I feel like I must contribute the ultimately most entitled vehicle to any road:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3695216
↓ AND HERE ↓
Quote from: sparker on November 20, 2018, 12:19:50 PM
BNSF's former Colorado Southern line in Fort Collins, CO ... 100+ car empty trains passing through a residential street in Ft. Collins.
Quote from: kphoger on November 20, 2018, 12:59:58 PM
Back to topic, though, I would agree that freight trains are perhaps the most entitled vehicles on the road. Although an armored procession of political figures might come close, because they could conceivably radio to have a freight train stop and wait for them.
Very good point. I have seen towns along the KCS's Vicksburg Subdivision (where my hometown is located) call the railroad and request a curfew (usually a couple of hours on average) to allow a parade to go through town and not be interrupted.
Quote from: kphoger on November 20, 2018, 11:16:40 AM
Quote from: sparker on November 20, 2018, 02:36:06 AM
Besides La Grange, other cities with significant main-line street trackage include Oakland, CA (UP/Amtrak), Fresno, CA (BNSF/Amtrak), and Monongahela, PA (CSX). A famous/infamous relatively long (about 2 miles) stretch of CSX in Lafayette, IN featured main line street running before 2004; a bypass was completed at that time.
Also commuter rail in Michigan City, IN–including a station stop on the sidewalk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11th_Street_station_(Indiana)).
Quaint as it is, they really want to get rid of the street running in Michigan City. The SS alignment along the Toll Road replaced street running through Gary.
Quote from: cjk374 on November 21, 2018, 06:39:59 AM
Quote from: kphoger on November 20, 2018, 12:59:58 PM
Back to topic, though, I would agree that freight trains are perhaps the most entitled vehicles on the road. Although an armored procession of political figures might come close, because they could conceivably radio to have a freight train stop and wait for them.
Very good point. I have seen towns along the KCS's Vicksburg Subdivision (where my hometown is located) call the railroad and request a curfew (usually a couple of hours on average) to allow a parade to go through town and not be interrupted.
I've had to sit stopped on an Amtrak train that was
already running late, because a small town in northwestern Indiana couldn't pause their parade for like two minutes. So instead,
we waited for the end of the parade.
Quote from: kphoger on November 21, 2018, 01:05:21 PM
Quote from: cjk374 on November 21, 2018, 06:39:59 AM
Quote from: kphoger on November 20, 2018, 12:59:58 PM
Back to topic, though, I would agree that freight trains are perhaps the most entitled vehicles on the road. Although an armored procession of political figures might come close, because they could conceivably radio to have a freight train stop and wait for them.
Very good point. I have seen towns along the KCS's Vicksburg Subdivision (where my hometown is located) call the railroad and request a curfew (usually a couple of hours on average) to allow a parade to go through town and not be interrupted.
I've had to sit stopped on an Amtrak train that was already running late, because a small town in northwestern Indiana couldn't pause their parade for like two minutes. So instead, we waited for the end of the parade.
It changed a few years ago, but it used to be that Amtrak trains had priority over freight trains unless they were an hour or more late. The rationale was that Amtrak would rather have most on time and a few very late than have most of them slightly late.
Not sure about parades, though.
Quote from: 1 on November 21, 2018, 01:10:40 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 21, 2018, 01:05:21 PM
Quote from: cjk374 on November 21, 2018, 06:39:59 AM
Quote from: kphoger on November 20, 2018, 12:59:58 PM
Back to topic, though, I would agree that freight trains are perhaps the most entitled vehicles on the road. Although an armored procession of political figures might come close, because they could conceivably radio to have a freight train stop and wait for them.
Very good point. I have seen towns along the KCS's Vicksburg Subdivision (where my hometown is located) call the railroad and request a curfew (usually a couple of hours on average) to allow a parade to go through town and not be interrupted.
I've had to sit stopped on an Amtrak train that was already running late, because a small town in northwestern Indiana couldn't pause their parade for like two minutes. So instead, we waited for the end of the parade.
It changed a few years ago, but it used to be that Amtrak trains had priority over freight trains unless they were an hour or more late. The rationale was that Amtrak would rather have most on time and a few very late than have most of them slightly late.
Not sure about parades, though.
It was a decision made between the engineer and the mayor, IIRC.
Quote from: kphoger on November 21, 2018, 01:59:50 PM
Quote from: 1 on November 21, 2018, 01:10:40 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 21, 2018, 01:05:21 PM
Quote from: cjk374 on November 21, 2018, 06:39:59 AM
Quote from: kphoger on November 20, 2018, 12:59:58 PM
Back to topic, though, I would agree that freight trains are perhaps the most entitled vehicles on the road. Although an armored procession of political figures might come close, because they could conceivably radio to have a freight train stop and wait for them.
Very good point. I have seen towns along the KCS's Vicksburg Subdivision (where my hometown is located) call the railroad and request a curfew (usually a couple of hours on average) to allow a parade to go through town and not be interrupted.
I've had to sit stopped on an Amtrak train that was already running late, because a small town in northwestern Indiana couldn't pause their parade for like two minutes. So instead, we waited for the end of the parade.
It changed a few years ago, but it used to be that Amtrak trains had priority over freight trains unless they were an hour or more late. The rationale was that Amtrak would rather have most on time and a few very late than have most of them slightly late.
Not sure about parades, though.
It was a decision made between the engineer and the mayor, IIRC.
I guess you really
can't fight City Hall.
Quote from: abefroman329 on November 21, 2018, 08:15:19 AM
Quote from: kphoger on November 20, 2018, 11:16:40 AM
Quote from: sparker on November 20, 2018, 02:36:06 AM
Besides La Grange, other cities with significant main-line street trackage include Oakland, CA (UP/Amtrak), Fresno, CA (BNSF/Amtrak), and Monongahela, PA (CSX). A famous/infamous relatively long (about 2 miles) stretch of CSX in Lafayette, IN featured main line street running before 2004; a bypass was completed at that time.
Also commuter rail in Michigan City, IN—including a station stop on the sidewalk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11th_Street_station_(Indiana)).
Quaint as it is, they really want to get rid of the street running in Michigan City. The SS alignment along the Toll Road replaced street running through Gary.
Here's a picture along Oakland CA's stretch with an Amtrak train.
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7957325,-122.277994,3a,75y,345.77h,83.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2ckBfznSiHDdrTsraZ6W8g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
And let's not forget Ashland, VA:
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7604093,-77.4809696,3a,75y,148.25h,92.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYy1xUQOxCX47Kk9ih3EJPw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
But at some point perhaps there is a distinction to be made between mainline tracks that are right down the middle of the street (Oakland, La Grange, Michigan City) vs. those that are in a median or otherwise curb-separated (Fresno, Ashland). La Grange is particularly unique as the RR tracks are along a driving lane, not even a painted median like in Oakland and Michigan City. I imagine traffic must simply move to the other way when a train is coming. Fortunately, it appears that Main St in La Grange does not get much traffic and this can be done with ease.
And of course, determining the difference between a mainline track and a secondary without much train traffic. There are plenty of examples of secondaries, but they may not get enough train traffic to warrant a mention and the train traffic will move slowly.
^^^^^^^^^
When I was living part-time ("commuter" marriage) in Fresno in the early '80's, the (then) Santa Fe/Amtrak line ran right down the middle of a couple of streets north of the depot; it wasn't until around the turn of the century that the configuration was changed to place the tracks on their own ROW next to a narrowed street. IIRC, the RR speed limit was 25 for passenger trains and 15 for freights for the street-running portion.
The worst offenders that I encounter normally on city streets are those armored money vans that pick up from businesses. They'll park wherever they want, cut off people, and get aggressive if you try to call them out. All in the name of "security".
Quote from: Bruce on November 24, 2018, 10:41:30 PM
The worst offenders that I encounter normally on city streets are those armored money vans that pick up from businesses. They'll park wherever they want, cut off people, and get aggressive if you try to call them out. All in the name of "security".
"My truck is made of pure iron so GET OUT OF MY WAY!"
Quote from: ipeters61 on November 25, 2018, 11:20:12 AM
"My truck is made of pure iron so GET OUT OF MY WAY!"
That reminds me of the time in high school some of us friends decided to go cruising in a guy's grandma's 1955 Ford. We were out in the country, and we told him he should be careful of deer. His response:
I'm driving two tons of steel with no power steering. I dare a deer to jump out in front of me!
Buy a diesel truck, modify it, then spit the exhaust on some poor unsuspecting green car.
Large cities have heavily put bikes at the top of the order via the installation of bike lanes. They've also heavily discriminated against UTVs (think Polaris Ranger) and ATVs (4-wheelers).
Quote from: kphoger on November 25, 2018, 04:19:50 PM
Quote from: ipeters61 on November 25, 2018, 11:20:12 AM
"My truck is made of pure iron so GET OUT OF MY WAY!"
That reminds me of the time in high school some of us friends decided to go cruising in a guy's grandma's 1955 Ford. We were out in the country, and we told him he should be careful of deer. His response:
I'm driving two tons of steel with no power steering. I dare a deer to jump out in front of me!
That just made me think of last week when I was driving the state van (for work) and it was
literally the first time I ever saw a deer on the road, thankfully in the shoulder, on the ramp from MD-32 West to US-1 North.
Quote from: SSOWorld on November 25, 2018, 04:45:17 PM
Buy a diesel truck, modify it, then spit the exhaust on some poor unsuspecting green car.
And make sure it sounds like you're driving an 18-wheeler carrying bricks of lead under a full load, so the entire city can hear.
Quote from: SSOWorld on November 25, 2018, 04:45:17 PM
Buy a diesel truck, modify it, then spit the exhaust on some poor unsuspecting green car.
Or you could just write "I'm a tool" on the tailgate and save yourself a lot of trouble.
Quote from: SSOWorld on November 25, 2018, 04:45:17 PMLarge cities have heavily put bikes at the top of the order via the installation of bike lanes.
No, they're just ensuring bicyclists can get around the city without being killed, and motorists can easily get around the city without killing anyone, via the installation of bike lanes.
Quote from: SSOWorld on November 25, 2018, 04:45:17 PMThey've also heavily discriminated against UTVs (think Polaris Ranger) and ATVs (4-wheelers).
Why in the world would you need, or want, to drive an ATV through a city?
Quote from: abefroman329 on November 26, 2018, 07:21:05 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld on November 25, 2018, 04:45:17 PMLarge cities have heavily put bikes at the top of the order via the installation of bike lanes.
No, they're just ensuring bicyclists can get around the city without being killed, and motorists can easily get around the city without killing anyone, via the installation of bike lanes.
Except that hasn't happened.
Bicyclists are still being killed because they're going thru red lights and stop signs.
Motorists, trucks, etc now have limited/no areas to park, but still need to make stops, make deliveries, etc, so they have to park in the bike lanes.
Bike lanes, especially by removing parking or a travel lane, hasn't made things better, and has often made things worse.
Quote from: abefroman329 on November 26, 2018, 07:21:05 AM
Why in the world would you need, or want, to drive an ATV through a city?
Could be a farmer popping into town to grab a bite to eat while checking fence.
Could be maintenance staff at a college transiting between sites.
Quote from: kphoger on November 26, 2018, 01:44:51 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on November 26, 2018, 07:21:05 AM
Why in the world would you need, or want, to drive an ATV through a city?
Could be a farmer popping into town to grab a bite to eat while checking fence.
Could be maintenance staff at a college transiting between sites.
Thanks, hadn't considered either one.
The most people that drive ATVs thru the cities would be Minority's like myself, because we don't have any farm land to ride on otherwise, we wouldn't be in the city.
iPhone
Quote from: Tonytone on November 26, 2018, 02:25:42 PM
The most people that drive ATVs thru the cities would be Minority's like myself, because we don't have any farm land to ride on otherwise, we wouldn't be in the city.
Plenty of people own ATVs but no farmland. They just plop the ATV on a trailer whenever they want to go on an excursion and tow it behind their car. But what if that car is at the mechanic, or your spouse took it to work, or whatever... It would be a useful vehicle to go drop something off at the post office or grab a couple of groceries you forgot over the week-end. I see people in Mexico drive around town on ATVs probably every time I'm down there.
Quote from: kphoger on November 26, 2018, 02:31:34 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on November 26, 2018, 02:25:42 PM
The most people that drive ATVs thru the cities would be Minority's like myself, because we don't have any farm land to ride on otherwise, we wouldn't be in the city.
Plenty of people own ATVs but no farmland. They just plop the ATV on a trailer whenever they want to go on an excursion and tow it behind their car. But what if that car is at the mechanic, or your spouse took it to work, or whatever... It would be a useful vehicle to go drop something off at the post office or grab a couple of groceries you forgot over the week-end. I see people in Mexico drive around town on ATVs probably every time I'm down there.
Wow KP, you're not as conservative as I thought, I should stop judging people by their actions & start judging by their words. But yes imagine how many less cars would be on the road, if they accepted other forms of vehicles other then cars.
iPhone
Quote from: Tonytone on November 26, 2018, 02:35:02 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 26, 2018, 02:31:34 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on November 26, 2018, 02:25:42 PM
The most people that drive ATVs thru the cities would be Minority's like myself, because we don't have any farm land to ride on otherwise, we wouldn't be in the city.
Plenty of people own ATVs but no farmland. They just plop the ATV on a trailer whenever they want to go on an excursion and tow it behind their car. But what if that car is at the mechanic, or your spouse took it to work, or whatever... It would be a useful vehicle to go drop something off at the post office or grab a couple of groceries you forgot over the week-end. I see people in Mexico drive around town on ATVs probably every time I'm down there.
Wow KP, you're not as conservative as I thought, I should stop judging people by their actions & start judging by their words. But yes imagine how many less cars would be on the road, if they accepted other forms of vehicles other then cars.
?? Isn't it a fairly conservative ideal to have the government prohibit fewer things?
Quote from: kphoger on November 26, 2018, 02:49:17 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on November 26, 2018, 02:35:02 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 26, 2018, 02:31:34 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on November 26, 2018, 02:25:42 PM
The most people that drive ATVs thru the cities would be Minority's like myself, because we don't have any farm land to ride on otherwise, we wouldn't be in the city.
Plenty of people own ATVs but no farmland. They just plop the ATV on a trailer whenever they want to go on an excursion and tow it behind their car. But what if that car is at the mechanic, or your spouse took it to work, or whatever... It would be a useful vehicle to go drop something off at the post office or grab a couple of groceries you forgot over the week-end. I see people in Mexico drive around town on ATVs probably every time I'm down there.
Wow KP, you're not as conservative as I thought, I should stop judging people by their actions & start judging by their words. But yes imagine how many less cars would be on the road, if they accepted other forms of vehicles other then cars.
?? Isn't it a fairly conservative ideal to have the government prohibit fewer things?
I coulda sworn conservatives wanted to keep things old school & have as little change as possible, while liberal ideal is to have new Ideas & encourage change.
iPhone
Quote from: Tonytone on November 26, 2018, 02:53:49 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 26, 2018, 02:49:17 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on November 26, 2018, 02:35:02 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 26, 2018, 02:31:34 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on November 26, 2018, 02:25:42 PM
The most people that drive ATVs thru the cities would be Minority's like myself, because we don't have any farm land to ride on otherwise, we wouldn't be in the city.
Plenty of people own ATVs but no farmland. They just plop the ATV on a trailer whenever they want to go on an excursion and tow it behind their car. But what if that car is at the mechanic, or your spouse took it to work, or whatever... It would be a useful vehicle to go drop something off at the post office or grab a couple of groceries you forgot over the week-end. I see people in Mexico drive around town on ATVs probably every time I'm down there.
Wow KP, you're not as conservative as I thought, I should stop judging people by their actions & start judging by their words. But yes imagine how many less cars would be on the road, if they accepted other forms of vehicles other then cars.
?? Isn't it a fairly conservative ideal to have the government prohibit fewer things?
I coulda sworn conservatives wanted to keep things old school & have as little change as possible, while liberal ideal is to have new Ideas & encourage change.
Ah, yes. Perhaps it would better be described as a "libertarian ideal" to have the government prohibit fewer things.
Quote from: kphoger on November 26, 2018, 03:02:25 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on November 26, 2018, 02:53:49 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 26, 2018, 02:49:17 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on November 26, 2018, 02:35:02 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 26, 2018, 02:31:34 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on November 26, 2018, 02:25:42 PM
The most people that drive ATVs thru the cities would be Minority's like myself, because we don't have any farm land to ride on otherwise, we wouldn't be in the city.
Plenty of people own ATVs but no farmland. They just plop the ATV on a trailer whenever they want to go on an excursion and tow it behind their car. But what if that car is at the mechanic, or your spouse took it to work, or whatever... It would be a useful vehicle to go drop something off at the post office or grab a couple of groceries you forgot over the week-end. I see people in Mexico drive around town on ATVs probably every time I'm down there.
Wow KP, you're not as conservative as I thought, I should stop judging people by their actions & start judging by their words. But yes imagine how many less cars would be on the road, if they accepted other forms of vehicles other then cars.
?? Isn't it a fairly conservative ideal to have the government prohibit fewer things?
I coulda sworn conservatives wanted to keep things old school & have as little change as possible, while liberal ideal is to have new Ideas & encourage change.
Ah, yes. Perhaps it would better be described as a "libertarian ideal" to have the government prohibit fewer things.
Hold on, what you said right there, sorry to be OT right quick, maybe most Americans think Being conservative is change & Being liberal is to stay the same. That's probably why a-lot of things aren't changing & keep gridlocking.
iPhone
Quote from: kphoger on November 26, 2018, 02:31:34 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on November 26, 2018, 02:25:42 PM
The most people that drive ATVs thru the cities would be Minority's like myself, because we don't have any farm land to ride on otherwise, we wouldn't be in the city.
Plenty of people own ATVs but no farmland. They just plop the ATV on a trailer whenever they want to go on an excursion and tow it behind their car. But what if that car is at the mechanic, or your spouse took it to work, or whatever... It would be a useful vehicle to go drop something off at the post office or grab a couple of groceries you forgot over the week-end. I see people in Mexico drive around town on ATVs probably every time I'm down there.
I think a bicycle or a Vespa or something that was designed to be driven on paved city streets would be even more useful, but point taken, any of these would be better than a car.
Quote from: abefroman329 on November 26, 2018, 03:41:52 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 26, 2018, 02:31:34 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on November 26, 2018, 02:25:42 PM
The most people that drive ATVs thru the cities would be Minority's like myself, because we don't have any farm land to ride on otherwise, we wouldn't be in the city.
Plenty of people own ATVs but no farmland. They just plop the ATV on a trailer whenever they want to go on an excursion and tow it behind their car. But what if that car is at the mechanic, or your spouse took it to work, or whatever... It would be a useful vehicle to go drop something off at the post office or grab a couple of groceries you forgot over the week-end. I see people in Mexico drive around town on ATVs probably every time I'm down there.
I think a bicycle or a Vespa or something that was designed to be driven on paved city streets would be even more useful, but point taken, any of these would be better than a car.
In my admittedly uneducated estimation, an ATV sure seems safer than a moped around town.
Quote from: kphoger on November 26, 2018, 03:57:57 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on November 26, 2018, 03:41:52 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 26, 2018, 02:31:34 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on November 26, 2018, 02:25:42 PM
The most people that drive ATVs thru the cities would be Minority's like myself, because we don't have any farm land to ride on otherwise, we wouldn't be in the city.
Plenty of people own ATVs but no farmland. They just plop the ATV on a trailer whenever they want to go on an excursion and tow it behind their car. But what if that car is at the mechanic, or your spouse took it to work, or whatever... It would be a useful vehicle to go drop something off at the post office or grab a couple of groceries you forgot over the week-end. I see people in Mexico drive around town on ATVs probably every time I'm down there.
I think a bicycle or a Vespa or something that was designed to be driven on paved city streets would be even more useful, but point taken, any of these would be better than a car.
In my admittedly uneducated estimation, an ATV sure seems safer than a moped around town.
In mine, (a) it seems inefficient to drive an ATV on paved roads and (b) a moped or bicycle seem nimbler than an ATV.
ATVs are not allowed on the roads here unless the have blinkers, brake- & headlights, seatbelts or helmets as is deemed appropriate, & is licensed with a tag/sticker plate.
I really assumed ATVs were primarily driven on private land or rights-of-way or, at most, a public beach.
Not one person brought up golf carts?
They're legal, and plated, on Kelleys Island in Ohio.
Rented one on my trip there years ago to drive around the island. Cheaper than taking your car as the per-day rental is cheap, and walking into the ferry so much faster than waiting to get your car on.
I try to stay away from places where golf carts are the primary mode of transit.
Quote from: abefroman329 on December 13, 2018, 09:04:12 AM
I try to stay away from places where golf carts are the primary mode of transit.
Then you'll want to avoid a whole swath of FL from Ft. Lauderdale up the Turnpike to past Orlando. Cart Central!
Quote from: sparker on December 13, 2018, 04:21:40 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on December 13, 2018, 09:04:12 AM
I try to stay away from places where golf carts are the primary mode of transit.
Then you'll want to avoid a whole swath of FL from Ft. Lauderdale up the Turnpike to past Orlando. Cart Central!
There's a few residential communities where there's golf carts – usually gated communities and places with minimal motorized traffic – but they are rarely found mixing with traffic outside those places. I think golf carts are typically at the bottom of the vehicular and pedestrian hierarchy.
There's a few isolated communities such as The Villages in which there's loads of carts, and are exceptions. Doubtful you'll find one legally tooling around on US 27, though.
^^^^^^^^^
I was actually referring to the plethora of planned communities that dot the corridor; in a couple Orlando-area ones I visited a while back visiting family friends, folks (usually retired) used their golf carts to go shopping on a regular basis; the local supermarket (IIRC a Kroger's) had an area by the front entrance set aside & marked off specifically for the small vehicles.