I'm guessing for top 3:
1-The new BPSs (P for purple) for toll road signs
2-HC signs (either permissive or prohibitive for hazardous cargo)
3-BWSs for HOV/HOT lanes.
Sign warning of solar glare (can't find a photo), found on MA 2 near I-495.
Also, this electronic toll sign:
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1832/43175477204_9c352f321d_c.jpg)
All black truck-specific signs.
I only can only immediately think of one in WA, and it was removed (image below -- SR 520 WB in Redmond). I think there's more, for a grand total of one or two, but I don't remember where these signs are.
(https://i.imgur.com/dSAY1A0.png)
How about those bi-lingual (English & French) signs up near the frontier with Quebec?
Keep in mind that the MUTCD allows you to put whatever sort of textual message that you want on a sign, so there are thousands of one-off yellow signs like that, and it's probably not what the OP wants.
The rarest sign type is probably the fluorescent pink incident management signs. I still have never seen one in the wild.
Quote from: jakeroot on November 28, 2018, 04:53:36 PM
All black truck-specific signs.
I only can only immediately think of one in WA, and it was removed (image below -- SR 520 WB in Redmond). I think there's more, for a grand total of one or two, but I don't remember where these signs are.
(https://i.imgur.com/dSAY1A0.png)
Or black signs in general, like the black speed limit sign on I-84 E in West Hartford, CT
The MDTA used to have a bunch of Big Blue Signs at Maryland House and Chesapeake House for wayfinding into and out of the parking lots. I've never seen these anywhere else in MD or in the neighboring states.
(https://www.aaroads.com/wp-content/uploads/guides/mid-atlantic/i-095-chesapeake-house-sign.jpg)
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 28, 2018, 05:37:51 PM
Keep in mind that the MUTCD allows you to put whatever sort of textual message that you want on a sign, so there are thousands of one-off yellow signs like that, and it's probably not what the OP wants.
The rarest sign type is probably the fluorescent pink incident management signs. I still have never seen one in the wild.
It says "Fair information tune to 1670 AM" so it's probably the best of both worlds in this thread :)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181129/d2808f3a9e587ca69036e6b1767b7519.jpg)
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on November 28, 2018, 06:31:33 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 28, 2018, 04:53:36 PM
All black truck-specific signs.
I only can only immediately think of one in WA, and it was removed (image below -- SR 520 WB in Redmond). I think there's more, for a grand total of one or two, but I don't remember where these signs are.
https://i.imgur.com/dSAY1A0.png
Or black signs in general, like the black speed limit sign on I-84 E in West Hartford, CT
Is that particular sign not meant to be a night limit?
Agreed otherwise. I've just remembered another black sign that's not truck-specific: junction signs. Apparently these aren't very common either...
(https://i.imgur.com/RfjKZQL.png)
Quote from: TheOneKEA on November 28, 2018, 07:09:17 PM
The MDTA used to have a bunch of Big Blue Signs at Maryland House and Chesapeake House for wayfinding into and out of the parking lots. I've never seen these anywhere else in MD or in the neighboring states.
https://www.aaroads.com/wp-content/uploads/guides/mid-atlantic/i-095-chesapeake-house-sign.jpg
I don't think this is in the spirit of the OP, as it's not a "USA"-wide sign nor is the sign based on some sort of rarely used standard. It's just an MD rest area sign that's moderately unique to MD.
As far as I can tell, there are five criteria:
(1) Shape
(2) Size
(3) Color
(4) Location/Mount
(5) Message
If we can find a sign that is unique with regards to all five, then we have a winner. The pink one two posts above is pretty good, scoring big on (3), (4), and (5), despite having a very common shape and size. Speaking of which, what is fair information, anyways? ;-)
How many "Do Not Enter" signs of the style seen in the GSV link below still exist? I can think of two others in Northern Virginia, but off the top of my head I don't know of others. I'm sure others exist, though. BTW, the "All Traffic" sign dates back to the 1970s, when all the signs for the reversible carriageway on that road had black backgrounds.
Neither of these signs is likely to survive beyond 2019, as they'll be replaced as part of the HO/T lane project.
https://goo.gl/maps/cYwPQS5mjYB2
How about the signs in Pennsylvania --
WAIT
FOR
GREEN
LIGHT
Quote from: 1995hoo on November 28, 2018, 08:06:32 PM
How many "Do Not Enter" signs of the style seen in the GSV link below still exist? I can think of two others in Northern Virginia, but off the top of my head I don't know of others. I'm sure others exist, though. BTW, the "All Traffic" sign dates back to the 1970s, when all the signs for the reversible carriageway on that road had black backgrounds.
Neither of these signs is likely to survive beyond 2019, as they'll be replaced as part of the HO/T lane project.
https://goo.gl/maps/cYwPQS5mjYB2
I read the post and thought I was going to get the style like these still up in Rocky Mount VA - https://goo.gl/maps/BR8f7Jqddh12 and also https://goo.gl/maps/LRpCY7PYo5G2
Quote from: Beltway on November 28, 2018, 09:04:43 PM
How about the signs in Pennsylvania --
WAIT
FOR
GREEN
LIGHT
Or California with "One car per Green"
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on November 28, 2018, 09:19:30 PM
Or California with "One car per Green"
That's not rare. Ramp meters in Minnesota have that sign too, or something very similar (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.1351612,-93.2379887,3a,37.3y,228.94h,83.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1st3Qa0oHbHFb0dI7XJj0VDg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 28, 2018, 05:37:51 PM
The rarest sign type is probably the fluorescent pink incident management signs. I still have never seen one in the wild.
I've seen a total of one (two if you count seeing its mate in my rear-view mirror). US-277 between Sonora and Jct TX-55. A truck had rolled over and spilled its contents. By the time we got to the scene, most of the cleanup had already taken place.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on November 28, 2018, 04:32:54 PM
I'm guessing for top 3:
1-The new BPSs (P for purple) for toll road signs
Agencies that use BPS guide sign panels for toll facilities - cough - PTC - cough - are doing it wrong. Only the ETC information on these signs is supposed to be purple background. The rest of the sign is supposed to be green background.
Quote
2-HC signs (either permissive or prohibitive for hazardous cargo)
Now Hazardous Materials (HM). The prohibition sign is fairly common in areas with tunnels.
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 28, 2018, 05:37:51 PM
Keep in mind that the MUTCD allows you to put whatever sort of textual message that you want on a sign, so there are thousands of one-off yellow signs like that, and it's probably not what the OP wants.
The rarest sign type is probably the fluorescent pink incident management signs. I still have never seen one in the wild.
I have been seeing these everywhere here in North Carolina recently, around my specific area. I'll try and get a few pictures although that may not happen for a while, due to the fact I don't go places much. Before 2017 or so, I had never seen one and they seem to be springing up everywhere. Some of them are being used in construction sites and are staying there for some amount of time...which suggests they aren't being used right.
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 28, 2018, 05:37:51 PM
The rarest sign type is probably the fluorescent pink incident management signs. I still have never seen one in the wild.
I've seen some of these before, this past August actually on US 64 in New Mexico. There was a bad forest fire that was still smouldering around Ute Park and it was raining the day I was driving through. Plenty of bright pink signs warning of fire activities and flash floods.
As for other rare signs, I'd say Saftey Corridor: Lights on for Saftey is pretty rare. Only seen it once on US 87 in Nwe Mexico between Clayton and Raton around Des Moines.
Amarillo has HM ok and prohibited signs at the I40-I27 interchange, prohibiting HM from going through downtown but allowing it down the interstate. Westbound I40 still says HC instead of HM.
What about signs for runaway truck ramps? I think I've seen those before.
There's probably a few signs in the MUTCD which haven't found a use, or are rarely used.
How about the combo standard / metric speed limit signs? I've not even seen a photo of those in the field.
Quote from: Mapmikey on November 28, 2018, 09:13:57 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on November 28, 2018, 08:06:32 PM
How many "Do Not Enter" signs of the style seen in the GSV link below still exist? I can think of two others in Northern Virginia, but off the top of my head I don't know of others. I'm sure others exist, though. BTW, the "All Traffic" sign dates back to the 1970s, when all the signs for the reversible carriageway on that road had black backgrounds.
Neither of these signs is likely to survive beyond 2019, as they'll be replaced as part of the HO/T lane project.
https://goo.gl/maps/cYwPQS5mjYB2
I read the post and thought I was going to get the style like these still up in Rocky Mount VA - https://goo.gl/maps/BR8f7Jqddh12 and also https://goo.gl/maps/LRpCY7PYo5G2
I have not been there and haven't seen those until you posted them here. Sorry.
I did think about posting the octagonal "Do Not Enter" sign on D Street SW in DC, but I figured that's just an error sign and shouldn't really count for this thread.
Not really a "sign" per se, but I just went to the post office on Barclay Drive and found myself wondering how many other roads in the USA still have a single yellow center stripe. See satellite view link below. I suppose I should note that I don't know who maintains the street, but I suspect it may be the developer (Halle Corp.) because the nearby shopping center parking also uses single yellow stripes to separate opposing traffic. (I note if you click into GSV, it shows a double yellow line, so it's an old image. As of this morning it definitely had a single line.)
https://goo.gl/maps/k6d8G7vDt7w
Quote from: formulanone on November 29, 2018, 12:07:07 PM
How about the combo standard / metric speed limit signs? I've not even seen a photo of those in the field.
Look closely on the far right: http://nysroads.com/photos.php?route=ny812&state=NY&file=100_6498.JPG
Quote from: Aquatarkus on November 29, 2018, 11:26:23 AM
Amarillo has HM ok and prohibited signs at the I40-I27 interchange, prohibiting HM from going through downtown but allowing it down the interstate. Westbound I40 still says HC instead of HM.
Yeah, Texas has several cities with HM/HC signs.
San Angelo (https://goo.gl/maps/zAgM3asiP5F2) stands out in my mind as another example.
Quote from: 1995hoo on November 29, 2018, 12:24:30 PM
Not really a "sign" per se, but I just went to the post office on Barclay Drive and found myself wondering how many other roads in the USA still have a single yellow center stripe.
Single yellow center lines are still common on numerous local streets in Massachusetts. Usually, these streets allow parking on one or both sides, with the result that traffic has to encroach on the center line to safely pass the parked cars because the roadway is narrow.
Quote from: roadman on November 29, 2018, 01:14:31 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on November 29, 2018, 12:24:30 PM
Not really a "sign" per se, but I just went to the post office on Barclay Drive and found myself wondering how many other roads in the USA still have a single yellow center stripe.
Single yellow center lines are still common on numerous local streets in Massachusetts. Usually, these streets allow parking on one or both sides, with the result that traffic has to encroach on the center line to safely pass the parked cars because the roadway is narrow.
This is the one (https://goo.gl/maps/6aQi3974fX62) that immediately came to my mind, in Branson (MO).
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 28, 2018, 05:37:51 PM
The rarest sign type is probably the fluorescent pink incident management signs. I still have never seen one in the wild.
I've seen a handful in the wild around Wisconsin. Most commonly, I've seen them used to warn of controlled burn areas or fire department training. About a month ago I saw a couple in Dodge County warning of speed enforcement areas, yet there wasn't one person pulled over nor a squad car to be found (and the highway wasn't set up for aerial enforcement).
Quote from: Beltway on November 28, 2018, 09:04:43 PM
How about the signs in Pennsylvania --
WAIT
FOR
GREEN
LIGHT
Somewhat common when there's a split phase at a light, at least in PA and NJ. Often the street that gets the 2nd phase has a 'Delayed Green' or 'Wait for Green' type sign.
Quote from: formulanone on November 29, 2018, 12:07:07 PM
How about the combo standard / metric speed limit signs? I've not even seen a photo of those in the field.
(https://www.lysator.liu.se/~riiga/Bilder/metric-in-florida.jpg)
Quote from: webny99 on November 28, 2018, 07:43:20 PM
As far as I can tell, there are five criteria:
(1) Shape
(2) Size
(3) Color
(4) Location/Mount
(5) Message
If we can find a sign that is unique with regards to all five, then we have a winner. The pink one two posts above is pretty good, scoring big on (3), (4), and (5), despite having a very common shape and size. Speaking of which, what is fair information, anyways? ;-)
I believe it's parking info for the county fair.
Quote from: vdeane on November 29, 2018, 12:43:04 PM
Quote from: formulanone on November 29, 2018, 12:07:07 PM
How about the combo standard / metric speed limit signs? I've not even seen a photo of those in the field.
Look closely on the far right: http://nysroads.com/photos.php?route=ny812&state=NY&file=100_6498.JPG
Going off of this, dual imperial/metric signs. I know the Maine Turnpike uses them fairly extensively, but the only other one I can think of is the out-of-left-field one on westbound I-40 coming into Knoxville.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 29, 2018, 01:36:21 PM
Quote from: Beltway on November 28, 2018, 09:04:43 PM
How about the signs in Pennsylvania --
WAIT
FOR
GREEN
LIGHT
Somewhat common when there's a split phase at a light, at least in PA and NJ. Often the street that gets the 2nd phase has a 'Delayed Green' or 'Wait for Green' type sign.
'Delayed Green' is common around the country for handling the split phase signal.
Telling someone to "wait for green light" doesn't make sense, as that implies that if there were no such sign that it would be ok to run the red light.
Quote from: riiga on November 29, 2018, 01:45:07 PM
Quote from: formulanone on November 29, 2018, 12:07:07 PM
How about the combo standard / metric speed limit signs? I've not even seen a photo of those in the field.
(https://www.lysator.liu.se/~riiga/Bilder/metric-in-florida.jpg)
I've seen those the the flesh, even posted my own photo to Wikipedia. :)
There's a few in the MUTCD range of R2-1 through R2-4a (Metric) - the metric speed limit is circled - which I've never seen photos of, just diagrams.
I've also never seen the R9-13 "No Skaters" sign.
Quote from: formulanone on November 29, 2018, 04:20:12 PM
There's a few in the MUTCD range of R2-1 through R2-4a (Metric) - the metric speed limit is circled - which I've never seen photos of, just diagrams.
I've also never seen the R9-13 "No Skaters" sign.
What the heck is R5-5 supposed to be for?
I've never seen R9-1.
Going back to the yellow stripe for a second....how about remaining single white stripes? That's gotta be even rarer. Only two streets in Tacoma with single white stripes (N Yakima in Stadium and E 26 St near the Tacoma Dome). No idea how (or why) they haven't been repainted.
Wait for green is the same as a delayed green. In the past, when there were only two phase signals, people could assume that since the opposing traffic is going that they can go too. Thus they may not check what their signal displayed. This sign was a warning that the assumption was wrong. It must have been a problem enough that the signs became necessary.
Quote from: BrianP on November 29, 2018, 04:33:40 PM
Wait for green is the same as a delayed green. In the past, when there were only two phase signals, people could assume that since the opposing traffic is going that they can go too. Thus they may not check what their signal displayed. This sign was a warning that the assumption was wrong. It must have been a problem enough that the signs became necessary.
Thanks for the explanation. I've never seen any sort of "wait for green" or "delayed green" sign in WA, and I've wondered what their purpose was. I've seen "delayed" plaques in British Columbia, at lead/lag left turns, but still never at regular intersections with split phasing, etc.
Quote from: kphoger on November 29, 2018, 04:25:53 PM
What the heck is R5-5 supposed to be for?
I was wondering that, too...I think of "lugs" as the nut that tighten the wheel onto the wheel stud. Maybe it refers to "studded tires"?
I don't think I've ever seen that sign, either.
QuoteI've never seen R9-1.
I've only noticed that recently, in NYC. It seems to be for oddly-angled intersections, but I claim no expertise in crosswalks and signals.
Regarding metric speed limit signs, I believe there are–at least there used to be, don't know if they're still there–several of them around the FGCU area near Fort Myers. They're dual-unit signs similar to what formulanone posted.
Quote from: formulanone on November 29, 2018, 04:39:16 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 29, 2018, 04:25:53 PM
What the heck is R5-5 supposed to be for?
I was wondering that, too...I think of "lugs" as the nut that tighten the wheel onto the wheel stud. Maybe it refers to "studded tires"?
I don't think I've ever seen that sign, either.[/qoute]
Reading this article (https://www.postbulletin.com/news/local/tractors-with-lugs-were-dangerous/article_580aa04a-5d73-5de1-8139-7b402a63ba90.html), it appears that this sign would matter more in the early 20th century than today. Due to tractor designs using steel wheels with lugs attached (think cleats), said lugs invariably wreaked havoc with paved roads and those unfortunate enough to be injured by them.
Quote
QuoteI've never seen R9-1.
I've only noticed that recently, in NYC. It seems to be for oddly-angled intersections, but I claim no expertise in crosswalks and signals.
The rare instances I've seen this sign in Virginia, it was placed on the shoulder of more rural roads lacking sidewalks (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.956452,-78.2383122,3a,15y,10.09h,86.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sF8Teg0ZaRH7MgA96gZzFdA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) that passed through areas with decent clustering of houses and businesses. I also found the exception to this rule out near Falls Church, VA, on the frontage road that parallels US-50 west (https://goo.gl/maps/BZyPNmVQ6YC2).
Quote from: BrianP on November 29, 2018, 04:33:40 PM
Wait for green is the same as a delayed green. In the past, when there were only two phase signals, people could assume that since the opposing traffic is going that they can go too. Thus they may not check what their signal displayed. This sign was a warning that the assumption was wrong. It must have been a problem enough that the signs became necessary.
I've seen multi-phase signals since I started driving in the 1960s. Seeing opposing traffic going while I had a red light was a common experience. I also saw "delayed green" signs at some signals there. I would never have assumed that it was ok to run a red light for any reason, so "wait for green light" is an oxymoron because it is saying "don't break one of the most basic traffic laws".
Quote from: 1995hoo on November 29, 2018, 12:24:30 PM
....
Not really a "sign" per se, but I just went to the post office on Barclay Drive and found myself wondering how many other roads in the USA still have a single yellow center stripe. See satellite view link below. I suppose I should note that I don't know who maintains the street, but I suspect it may be the developer (Halle Corp.) because the nearby shopping center parking also uses single yellow stripes to separate opposing traffic. (I note if you click into GSV, it shows a double yellow line, so it's an old image. As of this morning it definitely had a single line.)
https://goo.gl/maps/k6d8G7vDt7w
I got confirmation via the new issue of our community newsletter (came in yesterday's mail, which I only retrieved this morning) that the street in question is indeed privately maintained by Halle Corp. The unusual striping is thus perhaps less of an oddity in my mind since we all know privately-maintained roads sometimes have all sorts of unusual signs or other markings. (The newsletter mentioned that street as part of an article about who plows what roads.)
A rare sign that's just interesting: https://goo.gl/maps/2pB9Cn5eMhv . NJDOT does have a project in the works to widen the road and add in proper left turn channels.
Quote from: Beltway on November 30, 2018, 12:58:18 AM
Quote from: BrianP on November 29, 2018, 04:33:40 PM
Wait for green is the same as a delayed green. In the past, when there were only two phase signals, people could assume that since the opposing traffic is going that they can go too. Thus they may not check what their signal displayed. This sign was a warning that the assumption was wrong. It must have been a problem enough that the signs became necessary.
I've seen multi-phase signals since I started driving in the 1960s. Seeing opposing traffic going while I had a red light was a common experience. I also saw "delayed green" signs at some signals there. I would never have assumed that it was ok to run a red light for any reason, so "wait for green light" is an oxymoron because it is saying "don't break one of the most basic traffic laws".
Like I said above, this sign seems to be more commonly used in NJ and PA, and maybe in some localized areas. It also seemed to be used quite often at intersections where only one direction had an arrow for a protective/permissive phase.
Yes, it's a common-sense sign. But it probably originated at a time when arrows weren't common, and thus motorists simply expected their direction to have a green light the same time the opposing direction had a green light. Most of those signs are older as well, signifying the time period they were used.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 30, 2018, 12:53:00 PM
Quote from: Beltway on November 30, 2018, 12:58:18 AM
I've seen multi-phase signals since I started driving in the 1960s. Seeing opposing traffic going while I had a red light was a common experience. I also saw "delayed green" signs at some signals there. I would never have assumed that it was ok to run a red light for any reason, so "wait for green light" is an oxymoron because it is saying "don't break one of the most basic traffic laws".
Like I said above, this sign seems to be more commonly used in NJ and PA, and maybe in some localized areas. It also seemed to be used quite often at intersections where only one direction had an arrow for a protective/permissive phase.
Yes, it's a common-sense sign. But it probably originated at a time when arrows weren't common, and thus motorists simply expected their direction to have a green light the same time the opposing direction had a green light. Most of those signs are older as well, signifying the time period they were used.
I saw the sign when I lived in SE PA in the 1970s. Even then it was a nonsense sign, implying that at a signal without that sign that you don't need to wait for the green light, that you can go thru on a red light. Why be told at one intersection to "wait for green light" but not at another..
That was 45 years ago. Nowadays multi-phase intersections are so common that nobody should be unaware of the concept. If your signal is red, you DON'T G0.
WAIT FOR GREEN LIGHT isn't just for delayed green approaches, in NY it can be used anywhere there is an issue with drivers proceeding on a red signal. In this situation (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3505472,-73.9262228,3a,27.2y,197.83h,92.73t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1slT0BZYTD6Zy0LNy-v5CHgA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DlT0BZYTD6Zy0LNy-v5CHgA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D69.89713%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656), for example, the sign provides valuable information because it may not be clear that continuing from 403 South to 9 South is considered a through movement instead of a right-turn movement that would allow RTOR.
As for fluorescent pink incident management signs, some states did not approve them initially when they were first introduced in the 2003 MUTCD. I think the last state to approve them was Minnesota, which I think was added in the 2011 Minnesota MUTCD.
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on November 30, 2018, 04:30:50 PM
WAIT FOR GREEN LIGHT isn't just for delayed green approaches, in NY it can be used anywhere
When is it ever NOT OK to "wait for green light"?
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on November 30, 2018, 04:30:50 PM
there is an issue with drivers proceeding on a red signal. In this situation (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3505472,-73.9262228,3a,27.2y,197.83h,92.73t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1slT0BZYTD6Zy0LNy-v5CHgA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DlT0BZYTD6Zy0LNy-v5CHgA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D69.89713%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656), for example, the sign provides valuable information because it may not be clear that continuing from 403 South to 9 South is considered a through movement instead of a right-turn movement that would allow RTOR.
NO RIGHT TURN ON RED
That is how to sign for RTOR prohibited.
Quote from: Beltway on November 30, 2018, 05:59:53 PM
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on November 30, 2018, 04:30:50 PM
WAIT FOR GREEN LIGHT isn't just for delayed green approaches, in NY it can be used anywhere
When is it ever NOT OK to "wait for green light"?
Regulatory signs notify drivers of rules, they don't establish them; e.g., speed limit signs don't make a speed limit exist–the speed limit is entered somewhere as an official order or regulation and that's where the limit's legal authority comes from. The sign is technically just reminding you of the existence of the official rule.
WAIT FOR GREEN LIGHT reinforces the road user's obligation under the Vehicle & Traffic Law to stop and wait at a red light. The law's provisions apply regardless of whether a sign exists reminding drivers of it. If we apply your logic to orders and regulations in addition to legal codes, we shouldn't post any regulatory signs at all because drivers should just know which streets have been designated as one-way, where stop signs are authorized, etc.
Quote from: Beltway on November 30, 2018, 05:59:53 PM
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on November 30, 2018, 04:30:50 PM
there is an issue with drivers proceeding on a red signal. In this situation (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3505472,-73.9262228,3a,27.2y,197.83h,92.73t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1slT0BZYTD6Zy0LNy-v5CHgA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DlT0BZYTD6Zy0LNy-v5CHgA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D69.89713%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656), for example, the sign provides valuable information because it may not be clear that continuing from 403 South to 9 South is considered a through movement instead of a right-turn movement that would allow RTOR.
NO RIGHT TURN ON RED
That is how to sign for RTOR prohibited.
The reason the movement is illegal on a red light is that it's considered a through movement, not a right turn movement. NO TURN ON RED is not meaningful because there is no possible right turn movement from that approach. The existing sign is more consistent with the legal situation at this intersection.
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on November 30, 2018, 04:30:50 PM
WAIT FOR GREEN LIGHT isn't just for delayed green approaches, in NY it can be used anywhere there is an issue with drivers proceeding on a red signal. In this situation (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3505472,-73.9262228,3a,27.2y,197.83h,92.73t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1slT0BZYTD6Zy0LNy-v5CHgA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DlT0BZYTD6Zy0LNy-v5CHgA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D69.89713%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656), for example, the sign provides valuable information because it may not be clear that continuing from 403 South to 9 South is considered a through movement instead of a right-turn movement that would allow RTOR.
Depends on state law. In NJ, the law states there must be a 'No Turn On Red' sign to prohibit turns on red. A 'Wait for Green' sign is not the same thing.
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on November 30, 2018, 06:46:18 PM
Quote from: Beltway on November 30, 2018, 05:59:53 PM
When is it ever NOT OK to "wait for green light"?
Regulatory signs notify drivers of rules, they don't establish them; e.g., speed limit signs don't make a speed limit exist–the speed limit is entered somewhere as an official order or regulation and that's where the limit's legal authority comes from. The sign is technically just reminding you of the existence of the official rule.
The illuminated red signal lens already tells you what is the official rule -- stop and remain stopped while the red signal is illuminated. You can't tell the officer that you needed an additional reminder.
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on November 30, 2018, 06:46:18 PM
WAIT FOR GREEN LIGHT reinforces the road user's obligation under the Vehicle & Traffic Law to stop and wait at a red light. The law's provisions apply regardless of whether a sign exists reminding drivers of it. If we apply your logic to orders and regulations in addition to legal codes, we shouldn't post any regulatory signs at all because drivers should just know which streets have been designated as one-way, where stop signs are authorized, etc.
If we apply your logic here, we should post extra redundant regulatory signs everywhere. But you don't see that, at least not in the vast majority of places.
WAIT FOR GREEN LIGHT only at a few intersections implies that waiting is optional at other intersections. Someone on the autistic spectrum or someone from another country who doesn't yet know English very well might be confused by such signage. New drivers might be confused as well. Why take a chance?
Like I said, multi-phase signals have been common for at least 50 years, so drivers don't need extra redundant signs, and if you really insist then use DELAYED GREEN, which is a neutral way to inform.
I don't really see the point of DELAYED GREEN, either, while they used to be common in Virginia, nowadays multi-phase signals are so common that they apparently don't see the point and don't use that sign.
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on November 30, 2018, 06:46:18 PM
Quote from: Beltway on November 30, 2018, 05:59:53 PM
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on November 30, 2018, 04:30:50 PM
there is an issue with drivers proceeding on a red signal. In this situation (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3505472,-73.9262228,3a,27.2y,197.83h,92.73t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1slT0BZYTD6Zy0LNy-v5CHgA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DlT0BZYTD6Zy0LNy-v5CHgA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D69.89713%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656), for example, the sign provides valuable information because it may not be clear that continuing from 403 South to 9 South is considered a through movement instead of a right-turn movement that would allow RTOR.
NO RIGHT TURN ON RED
That is how to sign for RTOR prohibited.
The reason the movement is illegal on a red light is that it's considered a through movement, not a right turn movement. NO TURN ON RED is not meaningful because there is no possible right turn movement from that approach. The existing sign is more consistent with the legal situation at this intersection.
That does appear true that it is not an actual right turn. That sign is still not needed or appropriate, IMHO, because the two signal heads make it perfectly clear when the red lenses are illuminated, that the driver must stop and remain stopped during that indication.
If he doesn't get that and needs more signs, then you could put up strobe lights and audio broadcasts saying "wait for green light!" over and over again, and none of that is likely to help him. An accident going someplace to happen.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 30, 2018, 12:53:00 PM
A rare sign that's just interesting: https://goo.gl/maps/2pB9Cn5eMhv . NJDOT does have a project in the works to widen the road and add in proper left turn channels.
I have never seen backplates in NJ. Have I not been paying attention or is this indeed an anomaly (or unique to this jurisdiction)?
Quote from: Beltway on November 28, 2018, 09:04:43 PM
How about the signs in Pennsylvania --
WAIT
FOR
GREEN
LIGHT
I think there was something similar on IL 23 in the DeKalb/Sycamore area. There are/were a few variants on this for closely spaced signals along the lines for 'Obey your signal only'.
Quote from: Revive 755 on December 01, 2018, 12:27:32 PM
Quote from: Beltway on November 28, 2018, 09:04:43 PM
How about the signs in Pennsylvania --
WAIT
FOR
GREEN
LIGHT
I think there was something similar on IL 23 in the DeKalb/Sycamore area. There are/were a few variants on this for closely spaced signals along the lines for 'Obey your signal only'.
That is a sound concept ... as a driver, don't obey the signal of another lane or another roadway! Obey the signal of your lane and roadway..
I say business routes are rare in most parts of the country though. Its probably signed due to certain state considerations though.
If they ever put up a "Salmon Crossing" sign at Skokomish, WA, then it would probably take the cake.
Spawning salmon actually cross the road, which often floods.
Quote from: kphoger on November 29, 2018, 04:25:53 PM
Quote from: formulanone on November 29, 2018, 04:20:12 PM
There's a few in the MUTCD range of R2-1 through R2-4a (Metric) - the metric speed limit is circled - which I've never seen photos of, just diagrams.
I've also never seen the R9-13 "No Skaters" sign.
What the heck is R5-5 supposed to be for?
I've never seen R9-1.
If you mean "walk on left facing traffic," there's one on NY 9N in Lake George with STATE LAW on top: https://goo.gl/maps/Zm3281gDtQn
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on November 28, 2018, 04:32:54 PM
I'm guessing for top 3:
1-The new BPSs (P for purple) for toll road signs
2-HC signs (either permissive or prohibitive for hazardous cargo)
3-BWSs for HOV/HOT lanes.
- I don't see many APLs in New York. There's two sets on the Taconic in Westchester at the Sprain and Saw Mill Parkways. There's another on the Throgs Neck Bridge at the Cross Island.
- I also don't see many "Uturn yield to right turn." I proposed installing this at a signal where there's often uturn conflicts and NYSDOT declined, and told me that sign is used where there is a crash history of this type.
- In the northeast, 60 MPH speed limit signs
Quote from: crispy93 on December 03, 2018, 06:08:02 PM
- I don't see many APLs in New York. There's two sets on the Taconic in Westchester at the Sprain and Saw Mill Parkways. There's another on the Throgs Neck Bridge at the Cross Island.
- I also don't see many "Uturn yield to right turn." I proposed installing this at a signal where there's often uturn conflicts and NYSDOT declined, and told me that sign is used where there is a crash history of this type.
- In the northeast, 60 MPH speed limit signs
In Arizona, there are currently two known locations where APL signs are installed; one location I think at the I-8/I-10 interchange in Casa Grande, and the other is on at the US 60/I-10 interchange in Tempe. ADOT didn't adopt APL's until this year; I think they were concerned about signage costs. ADOT designed custom smaller arrows for their APL signs, which seems to mitigate the issue of sign size.
Also, there is only one known road in Arizona that currently has a 60 mph speed limit - SR 238 west of Maricopa.
These truck advisory speed signs in Oregon.
https://goo.gl/maps/JxnVUzi1c5x
https://goo.gl/maps/fjZpHuuzHLk
Quote from: Aquatarkus on November 29, 2018, 11:26:23 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 28, 2018, 05:37:51 PM
The rarest sign type is probably the fluorescent pink incident management signs. I still have never seen one in the wild.
I've seen some of these before, this past August actually on US 64 in New Mexico. There was a bad forest fire that was still smouldering around Ute Park and it was raining the day I was driving through. Plenty of bright pink signs warning of fire activities and flash floods.
As for other rare signs, I'd say Saftey Corridor: Lights on for Saftey is pretty rare. Only seen it once on US 87 in Nwe Mexico between Clayton and Raton around Des Moines.
Amarillo has HM ok and prohibited signs at the I40-I27 interchange, prohibiting HM from going through downtown but allowing it down the interstate. Westbound I40 still says HC instead of HM.
What about signs for runaway truck ramps? I think I've seen those before.
There are signs similar to that on the Chesapeake bay bridge (MD).
Quote from: jakeroot on December 01, 2018, 02:10:09 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 30, 2018, 12:53:00 PM
A rare sign that's just interesting: https://goo.gl/maps/2pB9Cn5eMhv . NJDOT does have a project in the works to widen the road and add in proper left turn channels.
I have never seen backplates in NJ. Have I not been paying attention or is this indeed an anomaly (or unique to this jurisdiction)?
They're rare, and very sporadic.. There's even a few that have the new yellow reflective backplate, such as here:
https://goo.gl/maps/sxBMfiVpaC82
How about signs EM-4, EM-7c, or EM-7d?
Quote from: Beltway on November 30, 2018, 11:14:24 PM
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on November 30, 2018, 06:46:18 PM
Quote from: Beltway on November 30, 2018, 05:59:53 PM
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on November 30, 2018, 04:30:50 PM
there is an issue with drivers proceeding on a red signal. In this situation (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3505472,-73.9262228,3a,27.2y,197.83h,92.73t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1slT0BZYTD6Zy0LNy-v5CHgA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DlT0BZYTD6Zy0LNy-v5CHgA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D69.89713%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656), for example, the sign provides valuable information because it may not be clear that continuing from 403 South to 9 South is considered a through movement instead of a right-turn movement that would allow RTOR.
NO RIGHT TURN ON RED
That is how to sign for RTOR prohibited.
The reason the movement is illegal on a red light is that it's considered a through movement, not a right turn movement. NO TURN ON RED is not meaningful because there is no possible right turn movement from that approach. The existing sign is more consistent with the legal situation at this intersection.
That does appear true that it is not an actual right turn. That sign is still not needed or appropriate, IMHO, because the two signal heads make it perfectly clear when the red lenses are illuminated, that the driver must stop and remain stopped during that indication.
If he doesn't get that and needs more signs, then you could put up strobe lights and audio broadcasts saying "wait for green light!" over and over again, and none of that is likely to help him. An accident going someplace to happen.
Perhaps using arrows instead of balls (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7986748,-84.2818439,3a,75y,18.03h,84.69t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sai_ZL5qW60p-8AfsfUhOHw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dai_ZL5qW60p-8AfsfUhOHw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D44.209373%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656) might still illustrate the point better. In the case of the linked intersection, while the green signals are arrows, the red ones are balls, and a driver I saw here the other day must have interpreted this as a right turn, as he proceeded through the intersection on red after stopping. (The "STOP HERE ON RED" isn't sufficient, I don't think, as the sign doesn't say anything about
remaining stopped.)
Quote from: Eth on December 04, 2018, 10:30:34 PM
Quote from: Beltway on November 30, 2018, 11:14:24 PM
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on November 30, 2018, 06:46:18 PM
Quote from: Beltway on November 30, 2018, 05:59:53 PM
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on November 30, 2018, 04:30:50 PM
there is an issue with drivers proceeding on a red signal. In this situation (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3505472,-73.9262228,3a,27.2y,197.83h,92.73t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1slT0BZYTD6Zy0LNy-v5CHgA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DlT0BZYTD6Zy0LNy-v5CHgA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D69.89713%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656), for example, the sign provides valuable information because it may not be clear that continuing from 403 South to 9 South is considered a through movement instead of a right-turn movement that would allow RTOR.
NO RIGHT TURN ON RED
That is how to sign for RTOR prohibited.
The reason the movement is illegal on a red light is that it's considered a through movement, not a right turn movement. NO TURN ON RED is not meaningful because there is no possible right turn movement from that approach. The existing sign is more consistent with the legal situation at this intersection.
That does appear true that it is not an actual right turn. That sign is still not needed or appropriate, IMHO, because the two signal heads make it perfectly clear when the red lenses are illuminated, that the driver must stop and remain stopped during that indication.
If he doesn't get that and needs more signs, then you could put up strobe lights and audio broadcasts saying "wait for green light!" over and over again, and none of that is likely to help him. An accident going someplace to happen.
Perhaps using arrows instead of balls (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7986748,-84.2818439,3a,75y,18.03h,84.69t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sai_ZL5qW60p-8AfsfUhOHw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dai_ZL5qW60p-8AfsfUhOHw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D44.209373%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656) might still illustrate the point better. In the case of the linked intersection, while the green signals are arrows, the red ones are balls, and a driver I saw here the other day must have interpreted this as a right turn, as he proceeded through the intersection on red after stopping. (The "STOP HERE ON RED" isn't sufficient, I don't think, as the sign doesn't say anything about remaining stopped.)
That's usually used to point out the stop line, especially when further back than normal.
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on December 04, 2018, 09:23:38 PM
How about signs EM-4, EM-7c, or EM-7d?
Those are probably good candidates for the running.
Quote from: Eth on December 04, 2018, 10:30:34 PM
Quote from: Beltway on November 30, 2018, 11:14:24 PM
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on November 30, 2018, 06:46:18 PM
Quote from: Beltway on November 30, 2018, 05:59:53 PM
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on November 30, 2018, 04:30:50 PM
there is an issue with drivers proceeding on a red signal. In this situation (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3505472,-73.9262228,3a,27.2y,197.83h,92.73t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1slT0BZYTD6Zy0LNy-v5CHgA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DlT0BZYTD6Zy0LNy-v5CHgA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D69.89713%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656), for example, the sign provides valuable information because it may not be clear that continuing from 403 South to 9 South is considered a through movement instead of a right-turn movement that would allow RTOR.
NO RIGHT TURN ON RED
That is how to sign for RTOR prohibited.
The reason the movement is illegal on a red light is that it's considered a through movement, not a right turn movement. NO TURN ON RED is not meaningful because there is no possible right turn movement from that approach. The existing sign is more consistent with the legal situation at this intersection.
That does appear true that it is not an actual right turn. That sign is still not needed or appropriate, IMHO, because the two signal heads make it perfectly clear when the red lenses are illuminated, that the driver must stop and remain stopped during that indication.
If he doesn't get that and needs more signs, then you could put up strobe lights and audio broadcasts saying "wait for green light!" over and over again, and none of that is likely to help him. An accident going someplace to happen.
Perhaps using arrows instead of balls (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7986748,-84.2818439,3a,75y,18.03h,84.69t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sai_ZL5qW60p-8AfsfUhOHw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dai_ZL5qW60p-8AfsfUhOHw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D44.209373%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656) might still illustrate the point better. In the case of the linked intersection, while the green signals are arrows, the red ones are balls, and a driver I saw here the other day must have interpreted this as a right turn, as he proceeded through the intersection on red after stopping. (The "STOP HERE ON RED" isn't sufficient, I don't think, as the sign doesn't say anything about remaining stopped.)
That's what is typically done in Utah when it's desired that RTOR still be permitted. Take this example in Cottonwood Heights (https://goo.gl/maps/Z8JBPvTo7362). The green and yellow indications are arrows, but you cannot turn right on a red arrow (at least in Utah). As a result, the red signal is a ball to permit right turn on red.
It is clear that a 90 degree turn is a right turn (permitted on red after stop) and going 180 degrees is no turn (no advancing on red light). However, for many of the examples where the angle of turn is between 90 and 180, it is not as clear. To the extent that a "right turn" is prohibited, where the angle is between 90 and 180, red arrows would make the situation clear.
At teh intersection of Sunset/Beverly Glen in Los Angeles, the straight movement is denoted with right arrows. I wouldn't think of making the "right" turn on red here as I consider the right turn to be a straight movement, but who knows?
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0823801,-118.4347911,3a,75y,37.79h,78.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgyFI0hS153VrSQyvg2vwvg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
I think a "straight only" (R3-5a) sign would re-enforce the movement being straight, and not a turn.
I can't remember what the MUTCD states exactly, but I've been told that red up arrows are not permitted.
Quote from: mrsman on December 05, 2018, 04:33:39 PM
At the intersection of Sunset/Beverly Glen in Los Angeles, the straight movement is denoted with right arrows.
That's a very Japanese way to do a protected "left". Red all the time, unless over-ridden by green arrows.
Quote from: jakeroot on December 05, 2018, 04:50:43 PM
I can't remember what the MUTCD states exactly, but I've been told that red up arrows are not permitted.
I don't know if there's any state like this, but it's possible that the statute pertaining to turning on a red arrow might not specify what direction the arrow is pointing. So, in theory, such a state–if it allowed turning on a red arrow after coming to a complete stop–would actually end up allowing a driver to proceed straight through a red up arrow after stopping.
Quote from: jakeroot on December 05, 2018, 04:50:43 PM
I can't remember what the MUTCD states exactly, but I've been told that red up arrows are not permitted.
Utah hasn't heard of that rule:
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/916/28200278677_653ee9b7d3_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/JXXNnk)
Quote from: kphoger on December 05, 2018, 04:53:57 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on December 05, 2018, 04:50:43 PM
I can't remember what the MUTCD states exactly, but I've been told that red up arrows are not permitted.
I don't know if there's any state like this, but it's possible that the statute pertaining to turning on a red arrow might not specify what direction the arrow is pointing. So, in theory, such a state–if it allowed turning on a red arrow after coming to a complete stop–would actually end up allowing a driver to proceed straight through a red up arrow after stopping.
In WA, the RCW (Revised Code of WA -- 46.61.055) specifies that movements on a red arrow are only permitted if the movement is a:
"right turn from a one-way or two-way street into a two-way street or into a one-way street"; or a
"left turn from a one-way street or two-way street into a one-way street".
Quote from: US 89 on December 05, 2018, 05:22:03 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on December 05, 2018, 04:50:43 PM
I can't remember what the MUTCD states exactly, but I've been told that red up arrows are not permitted.
Utah hasn't heard of that rule:
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/916/28200278677_653ee9b7d3_z.jpg
Lol neither have a lot of states, including WA. Several around here have been installed for over a decade. I suspect they are common in states that were early adopters of red arrows.
Like I said, I cannot remember where the MUTCD states the rule. It's very possible it's just an urban legend.
Quote from: jakeroot on December 05, 2018, 05:40:02 PM
Like I said, I cannot remember where the MUTCD states the rule. It's very possible it's just an urban legend.
From Section 4D.05 of the 2009 MUTCD:
QuoteA straight-through RED ARROW signal indication or a straight-through YELLOW ARROW
signal indication shall not be displayed on any signal face, either alone or in combination with any other
signal indication.
Note that this language first appeared as a revision to the
1978 MUTCD. So it's not exactly a new requirement.
I don't think I've seen a red straight arrow in Georgia, but we do have yellows (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7888812,-84.3209313,3a,75y,255.9h,94.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s70FfBK5lLhBfAe7T8bw4Ww!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).
Quote from: Eth on December 06, 2018, 12:09:32 PM
I don't think I've seen a red straight arrow in Georgia, but we do have yellows (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7888812,-84.3209313,3a,75y,255.9h,94.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s70FfBK5lLhBfAe7T8bw4Ww!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).
Unless they changed it in the last 5 years, They were on one intersection of Peachtree St. near Five Points.
Quote from: roadman on December 06, 2018, 11:14:50 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on December 05, 2018, 05:40:02 PM
Like I said, I cannot remember where the MUTCD states the rule. It's very possible it's just an urban legend.
From Section 4D.05 of the 2009 MUTCD:
...
Note that this language first appeared as a revision to the 1978 MUTCD. So it's not exactly a new requirement.
Thanks for posting. I read that section but somehow missed it.
Interesting how long that requirement has been in place, without having been modified. The MUTCD was never pro-arrow until the early 2000s (I think there was even talk of a ban on red arrows at one point), but given that it's now the standard for turn lights, I think they need to reconsider their stance.
What advantage would a red up arrow have over a standard red orb? I'm assuming that I'm just not clever enough to come up with one.
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on December 07, 2018, 08:35:21 AM
What advantage would a red up arrow have over a standard red orb? I'm assuming that I'm just not clever enough to come up with one.
1. To make clear that it's not a right turn if it would be ambiguous, indicating that turn on red is not allowed.
2. Red up arrow, while the left and/or right arrows are something other than solid red.
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on December 07, 2018, 08:35:21 AM
What advantage would a red up arrow have over a standard red orb? I'm assuming that I'm just not clever enough to come up with one.
In states that utilize signal-per-lane strategies, hopefully it could lead to less lane use signs (i.e. R3-5 signs). I've always found that those cause a lot of clutter. Could still be used without dedicated turn lanes. Agencies would just have to be clever with how they designed the signal assemblies.
In states where turns on red arrows aren't permitted (not mine but I know it's a thing elsewhere), it would also further solidify when one must wait for the green light. Sometimes (such as on the last page), movements can appear to be right turns to drivers, when the local agencies consider them straight-ahead. Basically what
1 is saying.
Ultimately, it would not have the same advantages as turn signals with arrows, but if those are considered bright enough for drivers, I see no reason that all-arrow assemblies shouldn't be allowed for straight-ahead movements as well.
Quote from: crispy93 on December 03, 2018, 06:04:02 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 29, 2018, 04:25:53 PM
Quote from: formulanone on November 29, 2018, 04:20:12 PM
There's a few in the MUTCD range of R2-1 through R2-4a (Metric) - the metric speed limit is circled - which I've never seen photos of, just diagrams.
I've also never seen the R9-13 "No Skaters" sign.
What the heck is R5-5 supposed to be for?
I've never seen R9-1.
If you mean "walk on left facing traffic," there's one on NY 9N in Lake George with STATE LAW on top: https://goo.gl/maps/Zm3281gDtQn
In the hills above Woodinville, Washington they have a yellow diamond warning sign for this, which seems like overkill. (Though it is near an elementary school.) (https://goo.gl/maps/zGwDWfXwZpq)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4908/45507087644_3e11d1b57c_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ckiHHo)Pedestrain warning sign, Woodenville, WA (https://flic.kr/p/2ckiHHo) by Arthur Allen (https://www.flickr.com/photos/116988743@N07/), on Flickr
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on December 07, 2018, 08:35:21 AM
What advantage would a red up arrow have over a standard red orb? I'm assuming that I'm just not clever enough to come up with one.
Less confusion of what lane the signal is for when a signal for a turn lane is nearby: https://goo.gl/maps/SzoADQcXznt (https://goo.gl/maps/SzoADQcXznt). Although, in that example, I think someone ordered too many arrows and not enough orbs and didn't feel the need to correct it.
Quote from: DaBigE on December 08, 2018, 11:14:27 AM
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on December 07, 2018, 08:35:21 AM
What advantage would a red up arrow have over a standard red orb? I'm assuming that I'm just not clever enough to come up with one.
Less confusion of what lane the signal is for when a signal for a turn lane is nearby: https://goo.gl/maps/SzoADQcXznt (https://goo.gl/maps/SzoADQcXznt). Although, in that example, I think someone ordered too many arrows and not enough orbs and didn't feel the need to correct it.
Particularly with those older Wisconsin setups, which I've always really liked. I've proposed several signal designs that use Wisconsin style signals for the right side of the intersection, using all arrow displays:
(https://i.imgur.com/reZCk0A.png)
Back on Rare Signs...
I'm going with anything Purple or Pink, % Grade signs, and Night Speed Limits.
Quote from: TEG24601 on December 08, 2018, 12:20:00 PM
Night Speed Limits.
I wonder how prevalent these are in Montana. There are potentially a lot of them out there.