In the last few years of living up in Maine, I've noticed a certain driving maneuver that is common among motorists turning left into driveways and minor side streets from rural two-lane highways. When a driver is approaching a driveway to turn left into, they will merge into the opposing lane of traffic to slow down in order to make the turn, provided there is no oncoming traffic. This is done as a courtesy, as it allows following traffic to continue past without the need for slowing down. Below I have included a very rough sketch of what I'm talking about (with the red car performing the maneuver)...
(https://i.imgur.com/BN0JaEzl.jpg)
Is this practice done elsewhere? May be I just haven't been paying close enough attention in other states, but I can only recall this ever being done in Maine. I'm curious to hear what others think.
It's common, if not expected, in this part of the country (ID/MT/WY/NV) where sightlines are good.
I've never seen anyone do that in central/southeast PA or any of the other states I've visited, though I don't know if I'd notice it...
Definitely not done here in North Jersey. Courteous drivers will hug the yellows lines, or even drive slightly over them, but not all will do this. If a shoulder is available, it will be utilized to pass the turning vehicle. If there's none, well the car(s) behind the turning vehicle are SOL.
It's common in the rural Midwest.
I've seen it performed in Florida and Midwest a lot, since there's plenty of flat and straight roads. Perhaps they've been rear-ended before?
Can't say I've seen it much in other places; the roads are much more crooked and even the slightest undulations (or a lack of level grading) make this a bit unsafe.
Just too crowded in NJ/PA to do that safely. Growing up, my side street was just after a sudden hill in the road (a train trestle). When safe, I would slightly go over the line to give motorists behind me room to pass on the narrow shoulder since it was a fairly blind spot, but I didn't go too far over in case someone was turning right out of my side street and didn't see me.
Not just Maine...occasionally seen elsewhere in northern New England.
Fairly common in rural Michigan. I did this maneuver myself on Christmas day on the drive up to the in-laws in Sanilac County, turning off of M-25 onto their side road.
I can concur some people do it Maine. As an insurance adjuster, I had to adjust a 3-vehicle accident where the left turning vehicle hit someone head-on coming over a rise, sending that vehicle into one behind the left turning vehicle. Good times.
Quote from: Ian on January 14, 2019, 01:10:29 AM
provided there is no oncoming traffic.
Quote from: signalman on January 14, 2019, 07:19:53 AM
Definitely not done here in North Jersey.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 14, 2019, 08:05:56 AM
Just too crowded in NJ/PA to do that safely.
I'm seeing a very logical progression here! :-D
Personally, I rarely if ever see other drivers doing this manuever. I have done it myself, though. A good rule of thumb is to do it only when there is a dashed line instead of a solid line (that is, interpret the dashed lines to literally mean "you can use this as lane for whatever purpose", not
just "you can pass").
I am
less likely to do this turning into an actual side-street, for two reasons: (1) There is more likely to be traffic coming out of the street, creating a point of conflict, and (2) traffic behind you is more likely to anticipate your turn. For a driveway, though, I absolutely do this, and in fact, I had even considered starting a thread about it the last few times I've done it. :-P
Happens infrequently around here. I personally don't do it.
Can't think of anywhere I would do this. It seems it is only a good maneuver on rural roads with good sight lines.
I do this at my home, but generally only so I can swing by the mailbox on the turn into the driveway.
As has been mentioned, it's common if not expected in rural areas of the High Plains and farther west. I've even done it in suburban environments as traffic has allowed.
Common practice in Mexico, where space permits, is to pull over onto the right shoulder, stop, then wait for traffic from both directions to clear before turning left. This maintains the fast-left/slow-right traffic pattern. I've even seen vehicles in Mexico stop in the right lane of a divided highway in order to use a crossover where no shoulders could accommodate a stopped vehicle.
Quote from: webny99 on January 14, 2019, 09:51:56 AM
Quote from: Ian on January 14, 2019, 01:10:29 AM
provided there is no oncoming traffic.
Quote from: signalman on January 14, 2019, 07:19:53 AM
Definitely not done here in North Jersey.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 14, 2019, 08:05:56 AM
Just too crowded in NJ/PA to do that safely.
I'm seeing a very logical progression here! :-D
Personally, I rarely if ever see other drivers doing this manuever. I have done it myself, though. A good rule of thumb is to do it only when there is a dashed line instead of a solid line (that is, interpret the dashed lines to literally mean "you can use this as lane for whatever purpose", not just "you can pass").
I am less likely to do this turning into an actual side-street, for two reasons: (1) There is more likely to be traffic coming out of the street, creating a point of conflict, and (2) traffic behind you is more likely to anticipate your turn. For a driveway, though, I absolutely do this, and in fact, I had even considered starting a thread about it the last few times I've done it. :-P
Southern NJ definitely has plenty of 2-lane roads where it isn't crowded, yet I've never seen this done. What I *have* seen (and done) is using a shoulder to turn *right* into a driveway / residential road.
I've seen it, but not very often
I have seen it in rural WA and BC, and have practiced it myself on the very few occasions where I've driven in rural areas.
The more unusual "driving in oncoming lane" maneuver I see in WA is when turning left onto a road into the center lane, even if it's a left-turn-only lane. Merging via the middle is extremely common, so much so that any center lane of a road is good enough for WA drivers, even when it's for left turning traffic only (with a double solid on one side, and a white line on the other).
Quote from: jakeroot on January 14, 2019, 11:13:06 PM
The more unusual "driving in oncoming lane" maneuver I see in WA is when turning left onto a road into the center lane, even if it's a left-turn-only lane. Merging via the middle is extremely common, so much so that any center lane of a road is good enough for WA drivers, even when it's for left turning traffic only (with a double solid on one side, and a white line on the other).
I see this all the time in Utah, but usually it's just into a two-direction center left turn lane -- not sure I've seen it into a lane marked specifically for left turn traffic, but I sure wouldn't be surprised. It mostly happens on roads where finding a spot to turn left onto the road would otherwise be practically impossible, but it makes things hell for people trying to turn left off the main road.
This might be one of those things that isn't region-specific and is more of just a general aggressive driving maneuver.
Quote from: US 89 on January 14, 2019, 11:18:06 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on January 14, 2019, 11:13:06 PM
The more unusual "driving in oncoming lane" maneuver I see in WA is when turning left onto a road into the center lane, even if it's a left-turn-only lane. Merging via the middle is extremely common, so much so that any center lane of a road is good enough for WA drivers, even when it's for left turning traffic only (with a double solid on one side, and a white line on the other).
I see this all the time in Utah, but usually it's just into a two-direction center left turn lane -- not sure I've seen it into a lane marked specifically for left turn traffic, but I sure wouldn't be surprised. It mostly happens on roads where finding a spot to turn left onto the road would otherwise be practically impossible, but it makes things hell for people trying to turn left off the main road.
This might be one of those things that isn't region-specific and is more of just a general aggressive driving maneuver.
Oh totally, I think most areas of the US merge with the center lane (maybe a few that don't), I'm just surprised by how often I see, at least in WA, drivers turning into the oncoming left turn lane to merge. Totally cool when it's a TWLTL, but not when it's "left turn only" (though I admit to doing it all the time when turning left off this road (http://bit.ly/2DaUDJe)).
I don't know if it's aggressive or just "I see center lane...I merge".
I've seen this a few times on the two-lane roads that dominate the farmlands south of Indio and Coachella. Notably in those cases it has little to do with courtesy for vehicles behind, but more impatience with vehicles in front.
This happens all the time for me...half the time there's no oncoming traffic the whole day so they're fine.
Quote from: US 89 on January 14, 2019, 11:18:06 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on January 14, 2019, 11:13:06 PM
The more unusual "driving in oncoming lane" maneuver I see in WA is when turning left onto a road into the center lane, even if it's a left-turn-only lane. Merging via the middle is extremely common, so much so that any center lane of a road is good enough for WA drivers, even when it's for left turning traffic only (with a double solid on one side, and a white line on the other).
I see this all the time in Utah, but usually it's just into a two-direction center left turn lane -- not sure I've seen it into a lane marked specifically for left turn traffic, but I sure wouldn't be surprised. It mostly happens on roads where finding a spot to turn left onto the road would otherwise be practically impossible, but it makes things hell for people trying to turn left off the main road.
This might be one of those things that isn't region-specific and is more of just a general aggressive driving maneuver.
I interpreted his description to mean that people treat a normal left-turn lane as a TWLTL.
In some states, a TWLTL is specifically described in statute as a place to turn either into or out of–not out of only.
Quote from: kphoger on January 15, 2019, 01:38:53 PM
I interpreted his description to mean that people treat a normal left-turn lane as a TWLTL.
Correct.
Quote from: kphoger on January 15, 2019, 01:38:53 PM
In some states, a TWLTL is specifically described in statute as a place to turn either into or out of–not out of only.
This is news to me. Which ones?
I've never seen it and would never do it myself. I'm not going to risk an accident and a failure-to-yield ticket just so the person behind me doesn't have to wait a few minutes.
Also, if traffic was high enough that traffic backups behind the vehicle turning left were common, wouldn't there be a left-turn lane there?
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on January 15, 2019, 02:17:52 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 15, 2019, 01:38:53 PM
In some states, a TWLTL is specifically described in statute as a place to turn either into or out of–not out of only.
This is news to me. Which ones?
Hahaha the opposite is news to me! There's places where that's not OK? I've never driven anywhere that didn't use the center lane for turning
and merging.
WA RCW 46.61.290: A two-way left turn lane is near the center of the roadway set aside for use by vehicles making left turns in either direction from
or into the roadway
Regarding TWLTLs, using them to merge is definitely not a practice I was taught, nor was it something I saw much until I started driving outside Minnesota more, particularly in the South. I still don't see it hardly ever here in Iowa either, and I guess I've just assumed that it wasn't technically legal.
I think you Minnesota drivers are too nice. :) I was taught in driver's ed in Utah not to do it, which may be a good defensive move anyway. But I was curious, so I went and looked at the Utah legislative code and found these:
Quote from: Utah Code 41-6a-102. Definitions.
(73) "Two-way left turn lane" means a lane:
(a) provided for vehicle operators making left turns in either direction;
(b) that is not used for passing, overtaking, or through travel; and
(c) that has been indicated by a lane traffic-control device that may include lane markings.
Quote from: Utah Code 41-6a-801. Turning -- Manner -- Traffic-control devices.
(3) Two-way left turn lanes:
(a) where a two-way left turn lane is provided, a left turn may not be made from any other lane;
(b) a vehicle may not be driven in the two-way left turn lane except when preparing for or making:
(i) a left turn from or into the roadway; or
(ii) a U-turn except when prohibited by a traffic-control device;
(c)
(i) except as provided under Subsection (3)(c)(ii), the operator of a vehicle intending to turn left may not enter a two-way left turn lane more than 500 feet prior to making the turn;
(ii) if traffic in the two-way left turn lane extends beyond 500 feet, the operator of a vehicle intending to turn left may enter the two-way left turn lane immediately upon reaching the last vehicle in the two-way left turn lane;
(d) the operator of a vehicle that has turned left into the two-way left turn lane may not travel in the lane more than 500 feet unless the operator intends to turn left and Subsection (3)(c)(ii) applies; and
(e) the operator of a vehicle may not travel straight through an intersection in a two-way left turn lane.
So sure enough, it's legal. Who knew.
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on January 15, 2019, 03:29:26 PMRegarding TWLTLs, using them to merge is definitely not a practice I was taught, nor was it something I saw much until I started driving outside Minnesota more, particularly in the South. I still don't see it hardly ever here in Iowa either, and I guess I've just assumed that it wasn't technically legal.
The legality of using TWLTLs to stage left turns
out of the driveway or side road varies from one state (or Canadian province) to another. E.g., it is legal in Kansas and Ontario, but illegal in Ohio.
In jurisdictions where this kind of staging is legal, TWLTLs seem to be much wider than in others where it is not legal. However, I don't know that anyone has tried to check legality and typical TWLTL width for all 50 US states and 13 Canadian provinces/territories.
Previous discussion of left-turn staging on this forum (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=9447.msg221355#msg221355)
^^^
Yes, we've had the discussion on TWLTLs before.
And I didn't know that you could pull out into them and then merge until I saw a graphic that the Kansas DOT put out a few years ago.
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on January 15, 2019, 02:17:52 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 15, 2019, 01:38:53 PM
In some states, a TWLTL is specifically described in statute as a place to turn either into or out of–not out of only.
This is news to me. Which ones?
Any of them that follow the Uniform Vehicle Code.
Quote from: Uniform Vehicle Code, Millennium Edition
ARTICLE VI-TURNING AND STARTING
AND
SIGNALS ON STOPPING AND TURNING
§ 11-601-Required position and method of turning
The driver of a vehicle intending to turn shall do so as follows:
[...]
(d) Two-way left turn lanes - Where a special lane for making left turns by drivers proceeding in opposite directions has been indicated by official traffic-control devices:
[...]
2. A vehicle shall not be driven in the lane except when preparing for or making a left turn from or into the roadway or when preparing for or making a U turn when otherwise permitted by law.
Haven't ever seen it done. The highly-wooded rural areas we've got in this part of the country block sight lines, and often times the roads aren't perfectly straight.
Seen it often on the Delmarva Penninsula, done both as a favor to following traffic, and an easy way to get to a mailbox.
http://www.lrc.ky.gov/statutes/statute.aspx?id=6370
Section 11b. For Kentucky the law states the center turn lane is for turning from or merging into traffic.
Quote from: corco on January 14, 2019, 01:46:14 AM
It's common, if not expected, in this part of the country (ID/MT/WY/NV) where sightlines are good.
Late to the party on this, but I've never seen this in Nevada. But admittedly I don't do rural driving regularly. Most rural routes I've driven have been modified to add turn lane at any major drives.
Going back to the original topic, it's interesting to learn that this maneuver is common in other parts of the country. In Maine, I've noticed that it's more common for drivers to do this when there is no shoulder for following traffic to use to go around the turning vehicle. That being said, there have been many times I've seen it performed on roads with wide enough shoulders for that to not be an issue.
Pretty damn uncommon out here in CA. The variant of this that seems to occur more often is a diagonal move across the opposing lane when clear -- but without any significant travel in the opposing lane -- and this is done primarily when there's a shoulder across the road that's safely out of that opposing lane (like previously mentioned, this is done mainly to reach mailboxes, gate locks, and other roadside points). However, in neighborhood streets without center division paint, vehicles will often simply shoot right down the middle, even when there's enough width for two side-by-side lanes (and this certainly is not a CA exclusive -- it's done everywhere, particularly in older neighborhoods with narrower streets (and few parking restrictions).
Quote from: sparker on January 16, 2019, 02:42:08 AM
The variant of this that seems to occur more often is a diagonal move across the opposing lane when clear -- but without any significant travel in the opposing lane
This is actually how I usually do it in urban environments.