I-40 basically follows a north-south alignment from Raleigh to Wilmington in North Carolina, where it doesn't make sense as either an even-numbered interstate or a continuation of I-40. Why was the route of I-40 east/south of Raleigh decided the way it was? If it were up to me I would've aligned it along US 264 to Greenville or US 64 to Rocky Mount, where there are currently freeways along their routes and ultimately make more sense as a major east-west corridor.
I seem to remember it did originally end at Raleigh and the extension to Wilmington was added later. Wilmington as a major port city does make sense to keeping it all as I-40.
North Carolina wanted an Interstate highway to Wilmington as a way to transport goods from the seaport there. Also, it was also a way to bring tourists to that area as far as the beaches and the USS North Carolina.
As far as extending I-40, originally I-40 ended at the Death Valley interchange in Greensboro. Raleigh, in the late 1960's-early 1970's, was one of the six state capitals not served by an Interstate highway. So, North Carolina built a freeway from the end of the Durham Freeway (NC 147) to Raleigh, ending at the US 1 (now also I-440) beltway on the west side of Raleigh (the freeway portion of Wade Ave) and numbered it I-40 with the understanding that it would be connected to I-85 in Hillsborough. The Durham Freeway was never considered to be a part of I-40 although it served as a de facto I-40 for years until the section from Hillsborough to the Durham Freeway in Research Triangle Park was completed in the mid to late 1980's. North Carolina wanted access to Wilmington from Raleigh, so they ended up getting the extension approved from the feds (FHWA or AASHTO-not sure whom) as I-40. Someone probably thought the distance was too short to use another 2DI. Besides, at the time, only 73, 97, and 99 were available for north-south numbers (97 or 99 would have worked if it was implemented).
At the time, Greenville and Rocky Mount were "sleepy" towns, places where not much was going on--except for East Carolina University in Greenville. The Outer Banks was not the tourist destination it is now. So, at the time, it made sense to extend I-40 to Wilmington--an area with a seaport and a tourist destination. Besides, North Carolina already had long-term plans to improve US 64. On a trip to Florida from the Hampton Roads area in 1975, we took US 58, VA 189, and then US 258 into NC to reach I-95 in Kenly, NC. I-95 was not finished from north of Exit 107 to Exit 145 in Battleboro then. When we reached the Tarboro area, we entered an interchange that defaulted onto a freeway that was built over the Tar River that went for nearly 3/4 of a mile, then default exited. That was the only section of the future US 64 freeway built in the immediate area. The US 64 freeway was going to be state built instead of having the feds assist (90/10).
Answering your east-west corridor comment, the geography of the land in that region is a reason there are even numbered interstates that seemingly go north-south. From Cape Hatteras, NC to Savannah, the coastline is in a northeast-southwest orientation. So, any freeway that heads "west" out of Charleston, SC or Wilmington should have an even number, although the freeway may physically go north-south or northwest-southeast. I-26 is a very northwest-southeast oriented interstate and becomes more north-south upon reaching Spartanburg, SC. I-26 has a northeast-southwest orientation Sam's Gap to Erwin in Tennessee even though it is signed east-west (east heading southwest and vice versa). So, NC more than likely decided to use I-40 as the extension number instead of using an odd number up.
I never considered I-40 to not make sense. You have one number connecting major cities throughout the state of NC. Plus, as I-40 ends in a zero, it is considered a major cross country Interstate highway. Even though it doesn't quite go "coast-to-coast" it still crosses nearly 90% of the country. Besides, who doesn't mind seeing a mileage sign outside of Wilmington posted Barstow, Calif. 2,554. Or used to. Looking at googlemaps, it appears that sign (probably because of theft) has been replaced by a Benson 94, Raleigh 123 mileage sign. Too bad and yet, sad. :thumbdown:
I do recall reading somewhere that the original plan for an I-40 extension past Raleigh would have had it following the US 70 corridor to Morehead City. Wilmington was and is the largest single city along the coast, but when you add the cities along US70 (Smithfield, Goldsboro, Kinston, New Bern, and Morehead City), at least at the time, and likely still today, there are together larger than Wilmington- and let's not also forget that there is a port at Morehead City, too.
In the late 1970s they decided to go for Wilmington. One argument was that US70 was already a four lane highway, while none of the routes into Wilmington were fully four lanes. Another argument was that by directing I-40 towards Wilmington, you can get an efficient interstate route from Raleigh to Fayetteville too, via I-40 and I-95. I-40 was routed due south out of Raleigh, and the I-40/I-95 interchange was put in Benson (rather than Smithfield, where it was originally planned) for this reason.
The rest is history.
Now, 40+ years later, the cities of the central coastal plain are finally getting their interstate: I-42.
^^ To summarize and append a few dates:
- As sparker noted, I-40 originally ended at what used to be I-85 in Greensboro (now US 29/US 70/former-Business-85).
- An extension of I-40 through Raleigh to end at I-95 was requested and approved by FHWA as part of the 1968 Interstate mileage addition. Early maps of this extension (which were on an old Gribblenation webpage) suggested I-40 would have extended to I-95 in Smithfield instead of Benson.
- Mapmikey (who has done a lot more research into North Carolina than I have as curator of the NCRoads.com Annex (http://www.vahighways.com/ncannex/route-log/index.html)) has thus far found no evidence that either NC 147 or Wade Ave were signed or designated as part of I-40.
- Best estimate is that the extension (south)east of I-95 to Wilmington was approved ca. 1978. The first contracts to build the extension were let in 1980. Regardless of the timeline, it was added as "non-chargeable Interstate" under 23 USC 103(c)(4)(A). Which basically means that NCDOT did not receive any dedicated Interstate funding to add it, nor did they receive Interstate Maintenance (IM) funds for upkeep while IM was still a funding category. IM funding went away with MAP-21 so the primary Federal funding category now for Interstate upkeep is National Highway System (NHS) funding.
- There was a lot of debate for well over a decade as to whether I-40 would go to Moorhead City or Wilmington. Wilmington won out by the time the extension was added to official plans in 1978. There was also debate over whether a route to Wilmington should have followed US 421. Such had been requested from FHWA in the late 1960s but was not approved.
- I-40 from Wade Ave around the south side of Raleigh was completed ca. 1983-84.
- From I-85 to NC 147 was completed by 1989.
- The extension to Wilmington was officially opened on June 28, 1990.
Quote from: froggie on March 19, 2019, 09:14:54 AM
- As sparker noted, I-40 originally ended at what used to be I-85 in Greensboro (now US 29/US 70/former-Business-85).
- An extension of I-40 through Raleigh to end at I-95 was requested and approved by FHWA as part of the 1968 Interstate mileage addition. Early maps of this extension (which were on an old Gribblenation webpage) suggested I-40 would have extended to I-95 in Smithfield instead of Benson.
- Mapmikey (who has done a lot more research into North Carolina than I have as curator of the NCRoads.com Annex (http://www.vahighways.com/ncannex/route-log/index.html)) has thus far found no evidence that either NC 147 or Wade Ave were signed or designated as part of I-40.
But I still have not seen any documentation of what year the I-40 southerly bypass of Durham originated.
Regarding NC-147 as a temporary route, don't forget the northernmost segment of said road, the part between US-15-501 and I-85, didn't open until around 1998, and even then both directions didn't open at the same time (I was living on Erwin Road at the time and I recall how annoying that unopened road was, but I just don't remember anymore which direction opened first). As you may know, the interchange of I-85 and 15/501 was, and still is, a partial interchange, such that without the completed NC-147 it's a bit of a hassle to make thru movements through that little area (coming from Charlotte or Greensboro, I often got off at US-70 west of Durham and then took NC-751 through Duke Forest just to avoid all the annoying traffic lights–my apartment was a decent enough location for getting to anywhere on the Duke campus, but it was a bit of a hassle going to most other places due in part to the Durham Freeway, the railroad tracks across the way, and all the partial interchanges).
Given that situation, it's highly unlikely (as froggie notes) that NC-147 would ever have been signed as "Temporary I-40" or some such, simply because there was no all-freeway route you could follow through Durham if you wanted to go from northbound I-85 to the part of I-40 down by the RTP.
Maybe it did and didn't make sense back then, but the addition of I-42 makes this moot anyway.
Quote from: Beltway on March 19, 2019, 09:41:36 AM
But I still have not seen any documentation of what year the I-40 southerly bypass of Durham originated.
In short, it originated with comments/concerns/suggestions FHWA had regarding the recently-approved routing of I-40 through Durham via NC 147. Effectively early 1969, as the extension of I-40 to I-95 was approved in December, 1968 and their concerns were brought up after initial approval.
Years ago, Adam Prince found an August 1970 corridor study and an August 1973 Draft EIS that covered I-40 from I-85 to RTP. It got mentioned in an old Gribblenation article on the history of I-40. Google has digitized the Final EIS (https://books.google.com/books?id=0841AQAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false), approved in February 1979. There's a map near the beginning of this that shows all the alternatives considered...five from the corridor study (I'll briefly discuss below) plus a couple more from the revised Draft EIS that is referenced. The approved alignment is from the revised Draft EIS.
The 1970 corridor study initially looked at 6 alternatives. Three alternatives departed I-85 near Hillsboro (but east of NC 86 instead of west as was built) and would provide a full bypass south of Durham via various alignments. One of these three was dropped before the study was released as it went through the Duke Forest. One alignment was along the original 1968-proposed alignment via NC 147, but with additional lanes and some interchanges removed per FHWA's request (after they approved the extension to I-95). One alternative would leave I-85 at NC 147 but then use the freeway portion of US 15/501 going south before turning east, roughly parallel to today's MLK Jr Pkwy then rejoining NC 147 at Ellis Rd. The final alternative stayed on I-85 to the east side of Durham then used US 70 and the now-under-construction East End Connector to NC 147.
The Final EIS makes note that NCDOT recommended one of the full bypass alignments in 1971. After the Draft EIS was released, public comment and controversy was such that a citzens advisory committee was established through the regional MPO to review the alternatives and make recommendations. This led to a revised Draft EIS being released in May 1976 and appears to be when the I-85 departure point for the full bypass alternatives was shifted from east of NC 86 to its built location west of NC 86.
The state Board of Transportation approved the recommended alignment in September 1977.
Was the area "sleepy" at that time?
^^^^^^^^^
The I-40 extension from Durham through Raleigh to Selma/Smithfield, essentially following US 70 (and which necessitated the long multiplex with I-85) was part of the 1500-mile 1968 Interstate supplemental package. The Wilmington extension/reroute along NC 50 and US 117, crossing I-95 near Benson, as Adam states, was developed in the mid-80's -- although several Gousha maps had previously shown that alignment as an undesignated future route in regional maps of the period; obviously, I-40 was applied to that corridor at the time. While there might have been in-state interest in a further Interstate extension to New Bern and Morehead City back then, the legal Interstate definition when the routing still followed US 70 terminated at I-95 near Selma until the Wilmington revision.
Quote from: froggie on March 19, 2019, 11:12:55 AM
The 1970 corridor study initially looked at 6 alternatives. Three alternatives departed I-85 near Hillsboro (but east of NC 86 instead of west as was built) and would provide a full bypass south of Durham via various alignments. One of these three was dropped before the study was released as it went through the Duke Forest. One alignment was along the original 1968-proposed alignment via NC 147, but with additional lanes and some interchanges removed per FHWA's request (after they approved the extension to I-95). One alternative would leave I-85 at NC 147 but then use the freeway portion of US 15/501 going south before turning east, roughly parallel to today's MLK Jr Pkwy then rejoining NC 147 at Ellis Rd. The final alternative stayed on I-85 to the east side of Durham then used US 70 and the now-under-construction East End Connector to NC 147.
So there was an alternative that would have followed NC-147 thru Durham. I first drove that highway back around 1985, before it had been connected to I-85, and before the I-40 southerly bypass had been fully completed. NC-147 looked like an early urban Interstate highway design. Whether that was ever the plan, by default it could have been used for I-40 if that alternative was selected.
Quote from: froggie on March 19, 2019, 09:14:54 AM
- Mapmikey (who has done a lot more research into North Carolina than I have as curator of the NCRoads.com Annex (http://www.vahighways.com/ncannex/route-log/index.html)) has thus far found no evidence that either NC 147 or Wade Ave were signed or designated as part of I-40.
In the late 1970s we (my family) lived in Knoxville and my wife had relatives in Raleigh; we would visit them whenever we went the Outer Banks on vacation. So I am very familiar with the freeways of the Triangle in those years. At that time there was a freeway connecting Wade Avenue to Research Triangle Park and the Durham Freeway connecting RTP to downtown Durham (at that time the Durham Freeway ended at Erwin Road, where there is no exit today). The freeway extending Wade Avenue to RTP was definitely signed as I-40 from the Raleigh Beltline (then signed as US 1/64, now I-440/US 1) to RTP,
including the current freeway section of Wade Avenue. The Durham Freeway was
not signed as I-40 in any fashion and I am sure it never was.
With some searching I turned up a North Carolina state highway map for 1979-80 that shows I-40 extending from the Beltline to RTP. I can remember seeing an I-40 shield immediately west of the Beltline; it was always a welcome sight.
To answer the original question, essentially what was said above. It was originally an extension of the original I-40 (it had ended at I-85 outside of Greensboro) to Raleigh & I-95 at Smithfield via the US 70 corridor approved in 1968 when a wave of new interstates were being added to the system throughout the country. Requests were then made in the 1970 to build an interstate parallel to US 74 between Asheville and Wilmington, an interstate paralleling US 421 from Greensboro to Wilmington, and extending I-40 to Morehead City from the proposed Smithfield terminus. All of those proposals were rejected. In 1978, the state had switched the routing of I-40 to meet I-95 at Benson instead, and to continue to Wilmington. Construction then happened mostly through the 80s.
Here's a good article explaining all of this more in detail - http://www.gribblenation.com/ncpics/history/i40.html
For opening dates...
- I-40 between I-85 and the Durham Freeway opened in 1988 & 1989.
- I-40 between the Durham Freeway and Wade Ave opened in 1971.
- I-40 between Wade Ave and I-440 (not originally called I-440) opened in 1984
- I-40 between I-440 and I-95 at Benson opened in phases between 1988 and 1990.
- I-40 between I-95 and Wallace opened in phases between 1987 and 1991.
- I-40 between Wallace and Wilmington opened in 1983.
Here's a more detailed map on the openings - https://goo.gl/X81wC8
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 19, 2019, 09:59:10 AM
Given that situation, it's highly unlikely (as froggie notes) that NC-147 would ever have been signed as "Temporary I-40" or some such, simply because there was no all-freeway route you could follow through Durham if you wanted to go from northbound I-85 to the part of I-40 down by the RTP.
IIRC, parts of I-85 Business through Lexington and High Point that have at-grade intersections and driveways signed as "Temporary I-85" until I-85 opened bypassing those cities in 1984.
The Wade Avenue Extension, between I-440 and the modern I-40, designated as I-40 between 1971 and 1984, is a 3-mile, 4-lane, interstate-quality freeway. It has interchanges at Blue Ridge Road and Edwards Mill Road; the latter serves the PNC Arena and Carter-Finley Stadium. The road has no posted route number (there is a hidden secondary route number). Everyone who lives in the area calls it Wade Avenue and knows where it is and where it goes, but for visitors I think it should have a route number. It could be I-740, or if we think NC has enough interstate numbers it could at least be NC 740.
My old Exxon map shows the the Durham Freeway and I-40 did not interchange like it does today. Both defualted without a turn at the current exchange. It required a breezwood at the end to get to I-85 and that map I saw it on showed two segments and no concurrency with I-85 then.
It looks like Interstate 87 is planned along the US 64 corridor from Raleigh to Rocky Mount and Williamston and continue on to Elizabeth City and eventually Norfolk (via US 17). So at least there will be an interstate along the corridor I mentioned.
Quote from: MantyMadTown on March 20, 2019, 12:36:28 AM
It looks like Interstate 87 is planned along the US 64 corridor from Raleigh to Rocky Mount and Williamston and continue on to Elizabeth City and eventually Norfolk (via US 17). So at least there will be an interstate along the corridor I mentioned.
There's also Future I-587, which follows US-264 between Zebulon and Greenville.
Quote from: wdcrft63 on March 19, 2019, 06:34:28 PM
The Wade Avenue Extension, between I-440 and the modern I-40, designated as I-40 between 1971 and 1984, is a 3-mile, 4-lane, interstate-quality freeway. It has interchanges at Blue Ridge Road and Edwards Mill Road; the latter serves the PNC Arena and Carter-Finley Stadium. The road has no posted route number (there is a hidden secondary route number). Everyone who lives in the area calls it Wade Avenue and knows where it is and where it goes, but for visitors I think it should have a route number. It could be I-740, or if we think NC has enough interstate numbers it could at least be NC 740.
If it's a 3 digit interstate, it would have to be a even number as it connects on both ends to an interstate, I-40 and 440. Could be I-640 now that the Outer Beltline will be I-540. NC 740 could work and have it signed from Capital to 40, everybody living here for 20+ years will still call it Wade Avenue.
In a better world (I'm not going to say perfect world), I-40 would be changed to what is being put in as I-42 (to maintain more of the east/west flavor of the road), and I-74 would become what is now I-40, and I-73 would keep the route south of Greensboro into South Carolina.
Quote from: Life in Paradise on March 20, 2019, 12:01:49 PM
In a better world (I'm not going to say perfect world), I-40 would be changed to what is being put in as I-42 (to maintain more of the east/west flavor of the road), and I-74 would become what is now I-40, and I-73 would keep the route south of Greensboro into South Carolina.
So -- I-40, I-74, and I-85 would be a "triplex" between Greensboro and west of Durham? And what designation would be applied to the Interstate portion of the US 74 corridor across the south tier of the state (not that there aren't plenty available!)? Seems like a lot of effort just to get rid of the 73/74 multiplex along US 220. If one
really wanted to maintain the general E-W aspect of I-40, it would subsume at least part of the nascent I-87 (at least out to US 17), with I-42 becoming something like I-38, and the N-S portion of I-40 from Raleigh to Wilmington a southern section of I-97 or I-99. But we're now getting into areas best reserved for the fictional section.
Quote from: sparker on March 20, 2019, 06:16:56 PM
Quote from: Life in Paradise on March 20, 2019, 12:01:49 PM
In a better world (I'm not going to say perfect world), I-40 would be changed to what is being put in as I-42 (to maintain more of the east/west flavor of the road), and I-74 would become what is now I-40, and I-73 would keep the route south of Greensboro into South Carolina.
So -- I-40, I-74, and I-85 would be a "triplex" between Greensboro and west of Durham? And what designation would be applied to the Interstate portion of the US 74 corridor across the south tier of the state (not that there aren't plenty available!)? Seems like a lot of effort just to get rid of the 73/74 multiplex along US 220. If one really wanted to maintain the general E-W aspect of I-40, it would subsume at least part of the nascent I-87 (at least out to US 17), with I-42 becoming something like I-38, and the N-S portion of I-40 from Raleigh to Wilmington a southern section of I-97 or I-99. But we're now getting into areas best reserved for the fictional section.
The numbering is weird, but there's not much issues with it. Most people have been accustomed, and switching the numbers around just to meet a grid would be a waste of money, time, and effort. Like you said, purely fictional.
Fun Fact about I-40 on the Wilmington end...it was first designated as NC 132 (https://connect.ncdot.gov/resources/safety/Route%20Changes/1983_01_01.pdf) from Jan 1983 to Aug 1984 with the road northwest to US 117 Castle Hayne reduced to secondary status before reverting back after the I-40 designation.
Quote from: froggie on March 19, 2019, 09:14:54 AM
...
- An extension of I-40 through Raleigh to end at I-95 was requested and approved by FHWA as part of the 1968 Interstate mileage addition. Early maps of this extension (which were on an old Gribblenation webpage) suggested I-40 would have extended to I-95 in Smithfield instead of Benson.
So, if I-40 was intended to end near Smithfield, giving the freeway to Wilmington a north-south number such as 97 would've involved either having what's now I-40 seemingly arbitrarily change numbers where the Clayton bypass was eventually to begin, or building the Clayton bypass decades earlier than otherwise justified. I once saw a reference to "the Wilmington-Benson freeway," which implied that there was a concept for a Benson-Raleigh freeway that predated the full Raleigh-Wilmington corridor. As unambiguously north-south as it is, numbering it as I-40 would've been pretty crazy, but extending it to Wilmington made an I-40 designation more... agreeable.
Quote from: Tom958 on March 21, 2019, 06:04:07 AM
Quote from: froggie on March 19, 2019, 09:14:54 AM
...
- An extension of I-40 through Raleigh to end at I-95 was requested and approved by FHWA as part of the 1968 Interstate mileage addition. Early maps of this extension (which were on an old Gribblenation webpage) suggested I-40 would have extended to I-95 in Smithfield instead of Benson.
So, if I-40 was intended to end near Smithfield, giving the freeway to Wilmington a north-south number such as 97 would've involved either having what's now I-40 seemingly arbitrarily change numbers where the Clayton bypass was eventually to begin, or building the Clayton bypass decades earlier than otherwise justified. I once saw a reference to "the Wilmington-Benson freeway," which implied that there was a concept for a Benson-Raleigh freeway that predated the full Raleigh-Wilmington corridor. As unambiguously north-south as it is, numbering it as I-40 would've been pretty crazy, but extending it to Wilmington made an I-40 designation more... agreeable.
When the I-40 designation was proposed to head to Smithfield, the proposed routing was different than it actually ended up, even around Raleigh.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gribblenation.com%2Fncpics%2Fhistory%2Fi40-1971.jpg&hash=3aa861bdcc62c7f58ba8cfb9913d2988ad538a94)
This was on state highway maps in the 70s. You can see how I-40 would run in the dashed lines. Today, it runs east of Garner, but then straight down. The actual I-40 alignment finally opened in 1988 and 1989 through here. The Clayton Bypass was built later on as a US-70 Bypass, which opened in June 2008.
Quote from: Tom958 on March 21, 2019, 06:04:07 AM
Quote from: froggie on March 19, 2019, 09:14:54 AM
...
- An extension of I-40 through Raleigh to end at I-95 was requested and approved by FHWA as part of the 1968 Interstate mileage addition. Early maps of this extension (which were on an old Gribblenation webpage) suggested I-40 would have extended to I-95 in Smithfield instead of Benson.
So, if I-40 was intended to end near Smithfield, giving the freeway to Wilmington a north-south number such as 97 would've involved either having what's now I-40 seemingly arbitrarily change numbers where the Clayton bypass was eventually to begin, or building the Clayton bypass decades earlier than otherwise justified. I once saw a reference to "the Wilmington-Benson freeway," which implied that there was a concept for a Benson-Raleigh freeway that predated the full Raleigh-Wilmington corridor. As unambiguously north-south as it is, numbering it as I-40 would've been pretty crazy, but extending it to Wilmington made an I-40 designation more... agreeable.
The 1970 Biennial State Highway report describes the I-40 extension as being to Smithfield.
The 1972 Report describes it to "connect with I-95 near Four Oaks"
1974 reports onward don't describe the interstate system in detail. The 1980 report has a table showing PE being performed for "Raleigh to I-95"
All the highway reports from 1915-2017 can be accessed here (http://digital.ncdcr.gov/cdm/compoundobject/collection/p249901coll22/id/622639/rec/8)
The NC State Officials didn't start showing I-40 dotted lines until 1985 and showed it from Raleigh to NC 42 in the alignment which was ultimately built. However, the 1972 Johnston County map (https://dc.lib.unc.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/ncmaps/id/9429/rec/35) shows exactly where in the Smithfield area it was envisioned to connect to I-95, right at today's Exit 97 pretty much where the US 70 Byp overpass is.
I'm loving all the historical information in this discussion; thanks to everyone for digging up the roots of this story. The fictional suggestions for renumbering are not so useful: the designations of I-40 and I-42 have zero chance of being changed.
Quote from: Mapmikey on March 21, 2019, 07:08:54 AMThe 1972 Report describes it to "connect with I-95 near Four Oaks"
That's pretty interesting. Four Oaks is the northern end of US 701, suggesting a scheme to link Raleigh and Wilmington mostly by widening existing US 701 and US 421 and incorporating the freeway bypass of Clinton. That would be at the cost of a less useful route toward Morehead City compared to the Smithfield route, or toward Fayetteville compared to the Benson route.
Quote from: sprjus4 on March 21, 2019, 06:48:21 AM
Quote from: Tom958 on March 21, 2019, 06:04:07 AM
Quote from: froggie on March 19, 2019, 09:14:54 AM
...
- An extension of I-40 through Raleigh to end at I-95 was requested and approved by FHWA as part of the 1968 Interstate mileage addition. Early maps of this extension (which were on an old Gribblenation webpage) suggested I-40 would have extended to I-95 in Smithfield instead of Benson.
So, if I-40 was intended to end near Smithfield, giving the freeway to Wilmington a north-south number such as 97 would've involved either having what's now I-40 seemingly arbitrarily change numbers where the Clayton bypass was eventually to begin, or building the Clayton bypass decades earlier than otherwise justified. I once saw a reference to "the Wilmington-Benson freeway," which implied that there was a concept for a Benson-Raleigh freeway that predated the full Raleigh-Wilmington corridor. As unambiguously north-south as it is, numbering it as I-40 would've been pretty crazy, but extending it to Wilmington made an I-40 designation more... agreeable.
When the I-40 designation was proposed to head to Smithfield, the proposed routing was different than it actually ended up, even around Raleigh.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gribblenation.com%2Fncpics%2Fhistory%2Fi40-1971.jpg&hash=3aa861bdcc62c7f58ba8cfb9913d2988ad538a94)
This was on state highway maps in the 70s. You can see how I-40 would run in the dashed lines. Today, it runs east of Garner, but then straight down. The actual I-40 alignment finally opened in 1988 and 1989 through here. The Clayton Bypass was built later on as a US-70 Bypass, which opened in June 2008.
Its funny that the original plan in the map for I-40 to go to Selma- Smithfield used the plan of current US 70 freeway there.
Quote from: roadman65 on March 22, 2019, 11:43:45 PMIts funny that the original plan in the map for I-40 to go to Selma- Smithfield used the plan of current US 70 freeway there.
Ha, I'd call that utterly unsurprising. Surely NCDOT was thinking of Clayton and Smithfield bypasses by then.
Not that it's terribly relevant, but I doubt that there was ever a real intention to build I-40 to I-95 at Smithfield, then have it just stop. What are the chances that it was drawn that way in order to justify an I-40 designation west of Raleigh rather that an odd X85? In recognition of the likelihood that it'd be extended to the coast someday, of course.
^^^^^^^^
The I-40 rerouting/extension to Wilmington, regardless of directional characteristics, was simply an exercise in a state electing to serve its largest coastal city with an Interstate after the original extension of I-40 east to I-95 was authorized. While lengthening an all-Interstate route to and from Raleigh from northward I-95 by shifting the junction point from Smithfield south to Benson, it also allowed the state to get a head start on the project by utilizing pre-existing state plans -- which is why it was built in relatively short order. NCDOT is nothing if not eminently practical; I-40 was going to be extended to I-95 in any case -- why not utilize its presence to further the Wilmington project! Changing designagtions in mid-stream would have added another layer of obstacles to overcome.
Quote from: Tom958 on March 24, 2019, 07:52:36 AM
Not that it's terribly relevant, but I doubt that there was ever a real intention to build I-40 to I-95 at Smithfield, then have it just stop. What are the chances that it was drawn that way in order to justify an I-40 designation west of Raleigh rather that an odd X85? In recognition of the likelihood that it'd be extended to the coast someday, of course.
It was the 1968 Interstate addition between Durham and I-95, and Smithfield was the logical terminus, because for the first freeway connection between Raleigh and I-95, that was the logical position to serve both I-95 South and I-95 North. Somewhat of a right angle for either way.
That has always been my thought ever since I first saw that on maps in the 1970s.
Quote from: Beltway on March 24, 2019, 07:58:29 PM
Quote from: Tom958 on March 24, 2019, 07:52:36 AM
Not that it's terribly relevant, but I doubt that there was ever a real intention to build I-40 to I-95 at Smithfield, then have it just stop. What are the chances that it was drawn that way in order to justify an I-40 designation west of Raleigh rather that an odd X85? In recognition of the likelihood that it'd be extended to the coast someday, of course.
It was the 1968 Interstate addition between Durham and I-95, and Smithfield was the logical terminus, because for the first freeway connection between Raleigh and I-95, that was the logical position to serve both I-95 South and I-95 North. Somewhat of a right angle for either way.
That has always been my thought ever since I first saw that on maps in the 1970s.
Interestingly enough, in 1978, the state switched the routing from Smithfield to Benson and to Wilmington.
The 28-miles of US 64 freeway between Knightdale and Nashville was completed between 1975 and 1979. That ties into the 1963 Nashville Bypass, providing a full freeway connection between Raleigh and I-95 North, about the time they shifted I-40 further south. I wonder if that had anything to do with it. Granted, there was a 7 mile gap between the 70s US 64 freeway and I-440 until it was completed in 2006, but the I-95 north connection mostly existed.
Quote from: sprjus4 on March 25, 2019, 09:01:11 AM
The 28-miles of US 64 freeway between Knightdale and Nashville was completed between 1975 and 1979. That ties into the 1963 Nashville Bypass, providing a full freeway connection between Raleigh and I-95 North, about the time they shifted I-40 further south. I wonder if that had anything to do with it. Granted, there was a 7 mile gap between the 70s US 64 freeway and I-440 until it was completed in 2006, but the I-95 north connection mostly existed.
The evidence against this is that 95% of the US 64 freeway's route btw Raleigh and Rocky Mount was shown as dotted line on the 1968 County Maps of Wake, Franklin and Nash.
Quote from: Mapmikey on March 25, 2019, 08:00:24 PM
The evidence against this is that 95% of the US 64 freeway's route btw Raleigh and Rocky Mount was shown as dotted line on the 1968 County Maps of Wake, Franklin and Nash.
VA-288 was on a 1967 planning map as a dotted line, but it wasn't completed until 1990 for the southern section and 2005 for the western section. Not even sure if there was any real timeline other than being on a 1985 thoroughfare plan.
Likewise for many non-Interstate freeways back then. Interstate projects were a pretty sure thing with the 90% federal funding from a deep pot of money, that they would be built sooner rather than later.
I-40 to Smithfield was a priority way to get Raleigh connected to both directions of I-95.
Quote from: Beltway on March 25, 2019, 10:01:16 PM
Quote from: Mapmikey on March 25, 2019, 08:00:24 PM
The evidence against this is that 95% of the US 64 freeway's route btw Raleigh and Rocky Mount was shown as dotted line on the 1968 County Maps of Wake, Franklin and Nash.
VA-288 was on a 1967 planning map as a dotted line, but it wasn't completed until 1990 for the southern section and 2005 for the western section. Not even sure if there was any real timeline other than being on a 1985 thoroughfare plan.
Likewise for many non-Interstate freeways back then. Interstate projects were a pretty sure thing with the 90% federal funding from a deep pot of money, that they would be built sooner rather than later.
I-40 to Smithfield was a priority way to get Raleigh connected to both directions of I-95.
The 1968 additions to the chargeable (90%) Interstate system were the last of the "automatically" funded routings save some mileage transfers and Howard-Kramer adjustments down the line; like all other federal outlays subsequent Interstates have had to wait in line for federal funds (at 80% maximum) to be appropriated -- and this is also applicable to the "high priority corridor" compendium -- no more guaranteed highway funding pool. So the only part of I-40 that would qualify for the original higher level of funding would be the portion west of I-95; funding for anything east (or, as it turned out, southeast) of there would have to be cobbled up separately. It is likely that NCDOT back in 1978 simply assessed the tradeoff of an efficient I-95 bi-directional access route to Raleigh versus getting partial funding for their longstanding Raleigh-Wilmington corridor concept and concluded that their interests would be better served with the latter option. Thus a more direct Interstate-signed pathway to Raleigh from northward I-95 remained a dormant concept for about 30 years until the now-superseded I-495 was planned & authorized along US 64 (and subsequently replaced by the longer I-87). And, ironically, the under-development I-885 in Durham provides an additional Interstate pathway (albeit a bit indirect) north out of greater Raleigh via I-85. In a few short years effectual Interstate-signed access to and from Raleigh to Richmond and points north will have gone from nothing to a plethora of choices. Such is the current
modus operandi in NC -- provide as much Interstate service to as many places as physically and fiscally possible.
To add to Raleigh to Richmond equation will be the conversion of Capital Boulevard to a freeway from I-540 to the freeway section just outside Henderson. Judging by previous timelines, that'll probably be 2080 before it is done.
Growing up in I believe like 4th or 5th grade there was a class call NC History and the part that discussed the I-40 extension to Wilmington mentioned that NC was debating between having I-40 follow the US 70 corridor to Morehead City or route it to Wilmington. Of course it was ultimately decided to route it Wilmington.
Quote from: Cemajr on March 30, 2019, 09:06:21 PM
Growing up in I believe like 4th or 5th grade there was a class call NC History and the part that discussed the I-40 extension to Wilmington mentioned that NC was debating between having I-40 follow the US 70 corridor to Morehead City or route it to Wilmington. Of course it was ultimately decided to route it Wilmington.
I'm surprised you learned about freeways in an elementary school history class.
Quote from: MantyMadTown on March 31, 2019, 12:06:36 AM
Quote from: Cemajr on March 30, 2019, 09:06:21 PM
Growing up in I believe like 4th or 5th grade there was a class call NC History and the part that discussed the I-40 extension to Wilmington mentioned that NC was debating between having I-40 follow the US 70 corridor to Morehead City or route it to Wilmington. Of course it was ultimately decided to route it Wilmington.
I'm surprised you learned about freeways in an elementary school history class.
Yeah if I recall I think it was just a few short paragraphs talking about I-40. This was in the mid 90s so it was a big deal I guess in regards to NC infrastructure and the highway had just recently been completed.
The mid '90's? 40 was already completed to Wilmington by then.
Quote from: goobnav on March 31, 2019, 03:27:32 PM
The mid '90's? 40 was already completed to Wilmington by then.
It's called
history class. History, I.E. happened in the past. I-40 happened
before they learned about it. It's
history.
Quote from: sprjus4 on March 31, 2019, 04:16:41 PM
Quote from: goobnav on March 31, 2019, 03:27:32 PM
The mid '90's? 40 was already completed to Wilmington by then.
It's called history class. History, I.E. happened in the past. I-40 happened before they learned about it. It's history.
5 years is recent history the route was completed in 1990, can understand Social Studies class but, not history.
Quote from: MantyMadTown on March 20, 2019, 12:36:28 AM
It looks like Interstate 87 is planned along the US 64 corridor from Raleigh to Rocky Mount and Williamston and continue on to Elizabeth City and eventually Norfolk (via US 17). So at least there will be an interstate along the corridor I mentioned.
time to flip those numbers
The debate over the routing of I-40 east of Raleigh is Vietnam War era stuff. I was in elementary school in the early 90s and they certainly talked about the Vietnam War (although I guess our curriculum must not have been good enough to cover things like interstate highway routings.)
The Blue->Red flip in the 2010 Red Wave and the subsequent reinforcement gerrymandering is probably in history books by now, as well it should be. History is at its best when it connects directly to current events.
Sort of similar, but one of my sixth grade social studies group projects was to learn more about the I-26 connector. This was 1993 and they were trying to decide on the route - an outer bypass (cutting through the Leicester/Sandy Mush area) or through town, the solution they eventually arrived at. Another group, as I recall, was studying road widenings, including Merrimon Avenue, which, guess what, is still also relevant even today.
Quote from: orulz on March 31, 2019, 09:23:18 PM
The debate over the routing of I-40 east of Raleigh is Vietnam War era stuff. I was in elementary school in the early 90s and they certainly talked about the Vietnam War (although I guess our curriculum must not have been good enough to cover things like interstate highway routings.)
The Blue->Red flip in the 2010 Red Wave and the subsequent reinforcement gerrymandering is probably in history books by now, as well it should be. History is at its best when it connects directly to current events.
Sort of similar, but one of my sixth grade social studies group projects was to learn more about the I-26 connector. This was 1993 and they were trying to decide on the route - an outer bypass (cutting through the Leicester/Sandy Mush area) or through town, the solution they eventually arrived at. Another group, as I recall, was studying road widenings, including Merrimon Avenue, which, guess what, is still also relevant even today.
Was North Carolina primarily blue downballot before the 2010 midterms? I always thought North Carolina had a history of being solid Republican before recently (with the exception of the 2008 presidential election where they voted for Obama instead of McCain). Wisconsin had a history of being more Democratic before 2010 when Scott Walker took office and Republicans took control of the state Senate and Assembly. I'm wondering if it was like that in North Carolina.
Since we're at the topic of learning about freeways in school, I wish I learned about the Milwaukee freeway revolts taking place around that time, in the 60s and 70s.
NC's state legislature was gerrymandered to heavily favor Democrats for decades prior to 2010. An unprecedented Red Wave combined with a number of scandals in the state Democratic party in 2010 made the Republican vote strong enough to finally overcome that gerrymander. Then in 2010, the Republicans took Gerrymandering to the next level, making districts that some speculate are strong enough to maintain the Republican majorities regardless of any election result that's actually feasible in real life.
On statewide offices like senators, governor, and president, NC tends to split between Republican and Democrat results and has been this way for decades. Maybe leaning Democrat for governor and Republican for President, but definitely a swing state in most races.
Quote from: orulz on April 01, 2019, 09:53:46 AM
NC's state legislature was gerrymandered to heavily favor Democrats for decades prior to 2010. An unprecedented Red Wave combined with a number of scandals in the state Democratic party in 2010 made the Republican vote strong enough to finally overcome that gerrymander. Then in 2010, the Republicans took Gerrymandering to the next level, making districts that some speculate are strong enough to maintain the Republican majorities regardless of any election result that's actually feasible in real life.
On statewide offices like senators, governor, and president, NC tends to split between Republican and Democrat results and has been this way for decades. Maybe leaning Democrat for governor and Republican for President, but definitely a swing state in most races.
All true. But for purposes of this forum, the important thing is that NC Democrats and Republicans generally agree on the desirability of building more roads. The push for more freeways began long before 2010 and continues, as we all see, with little change down to the present.
When the Republicans took control, one of the things they did was to revise the distribution of funds. Mostly it was to make the process less political and more data-based, which in my opinion has been a good change. Perhaps counter-intuitively, this has resulted in modestly *less* money for rural freeways (who you would think would be the ones Republicans would favor) and *more* money for urban and suburban areas. But yes, there is a strong bipartisan consensus in favor of roads in NC, as evidenced by its relatively high gas tax (as compared to its neighbors.) NC's gas tax is set such that even after the rebalancing from the new prioritization process, we can still afford to keep building rural interstates as well as upgrade our urban roads.
Quote from: orulz on April 02, 2019, 01:07:40 PM
When the Republicans took control, one of the things they did was to revise the distribution of funds. Mostly it was to make the process less political and more data-based, which in my opinion has been a good change. Perhaps counter-intuitively, this has resulted in modestly *less* money for rural freeways (who you would think would be the ones Republicans would favor) and *more* money for urban and suburban areas. But yes, there is a strong bipartisan consensus in favor of roads in NC, as evidenced by its relatively high gas tax (as compared to its neighbors.) NC's gas tax is set such that even after the rebalancing from the new prioritization process, we can still afford to keep building rural interstates as well as upgrade our urban roads.
That is a true point.
There's been a lot of newer city bypasses, urban freeways, etc. being built lately rather than rural stretches, rural upgrades to interstate standards, etc...
Though a lot are planned in the next 10-20 years. US-17, US-70, US-74, US-29, US-220, etc.
Quote from: orulz on April 02, 2019, 01:07:40 PM
When the Republicans took control, one of the things they did was to revise the distribution of funds. Mostly it was to make the process less political and more data-based, which in my opinion has been a good change. Perhaps counter-intuitively, this has resulted in modestly *less* money for rural freeways (who you would think would be the ones Republicans would favor) and *more* money for urban and suburban areas. But yes, there is a strong bipartisan consensus in favor of roads in NC, as evidenced by its relatively high gas tax (as compared to its neighbors.) NC's gas tax is set such that even after the rebalancing from the new prioritization process, we can still afford to keep building rural interstates as well as upgrade our urban roads.
But does that explain the constant Charlotte vs. Triangle or Charlotte vs. Triad debates?
Quote from: hbelkins on April 02, 2019, 10:07:58 PM
Quote from: orulz on April 02, 2019, 01:07:40 PM
When the Republicans took control, one of the things they did was to revise the distribution of funds. Mostly it was to make the process less political and more data-based, which in my opinion has been a good change. Perhaps counter-intuitively, this has resulted in modestly *less* money for rural freeways (who you would think would be the ones Republicans would favor) and *more* money for urban and suburban areas. But yes, there is a strong bipartisan consensus in favor of roads in NC, as evidenced by its relatively high gas tax (as compared to its neighbors.) NC's gas tax is set such that even after the rebalancing from the new prioritization process, we can still afford to keep building rural interstates as well as upgrade our urban roads.
But does that explain the constant Charlotte vs. Triangle or Charlotte vs. Triad debates?
Having grew up in Eastern NC, I remember when it was Everybody vs. ENC. :-D
QuoteThere's been a lot of newer city bypasses, urban freeways, etc. being built lately rather than rural stretches, rural upgrades to interstate standards, etc...
This is in part because, prior to the shift to a performace-based system, state law required highway construction funding to be distributed more or less evenly across NCDOT's 14 districts. This prior system gave a distinct funding advantage to the rural districts. The results of which can be seen most notably in the more urban districts: tolled 540 segments, tolled 77 lanes, widening of 85 northeast of Charlotte still not finished, Greensboro beltway not finshed yet, etc etch.
Quote from: sprjus4 on March 19, 2019, 05:18:42 PM
To answer the original question, essentially what was said above. It was originally an extension of the original I-40 (it had ended at I-85 outside of Greensboro) to Raleigh & I-95 at Smithfield via the US 70 corridor approved in 1968 when a wave of new interstates were being added to the system throughout the country. Requests were then made in the 1970 to build an interstate parallel to US 74 between Asheville and Wilmington, an interstate paralleling US 421 from Greensboro to Wilmington, and extending I-40 to Morehead City from the proposed Smithfield terminus. All of those proposals were rejected. In 1978, the state had switched the routing of I-40 to meet I-95 at Benson instead, and to continue to Wilmington. Construction then happened mostly through the 80s.
Here's a good article explaining all of this more in detail - http://www.gribblenation.com/ncpics/history/i40.html
For opening dates...
- I-40 between I-85 and the Durham Freeway opened in 1988 & 1989.
- I-40 between the Durham Freeway and Wade Ave opened in 1971.
- I-40 between Wade Ave and I-440 (not originally called I-440) opened in 1984
- I-40 between I-440 and I-95 at Benson opened in phases between 1988 and 1990.
- I-40 between I-95 and Wallace opened in phases between 1987 and 1991.
- I-40 between Wallace and Wilmington opened in 1983.
Here's a more detailed map on the openings - https://goo.gl/X81wC8
Sorry to resurrect this thread - but the updated link for the I-40 continuation to Wilmington is now: http://www.gribblenation.org/2016/08/to-shore-north-carolinas-struggle-to.html
I had originally thought that the debate between Morehead City and Wilmington was the more intersting angle - but as it turns out the real surprise was routing it parallel to US 117 vs. US 421. The US 117 option was more costly.
"By the Spring of 1978, it was generally known that the state's Transportation Board would make the decision to extend Interstate 40 to Wilmington when they met in Tarboro that April. (7, 10) However, the decision was made to have Interstate 40 parallel US 117 as a new highway versus the preferred to most groups US 421 alignment. The US 421 alignment was also considered a significantly cheaper option at $60 million from I-95 to Wilmington vs. the expected $147 million cost for the eventual US 117 alignment. (10) The board's decision went against the recommendation from a study done by highway consultant William S. Pollard. Pollard said that the overall decision was "a coin-flip". (10) Supporters of the US 421 alignment were concerned that the decision to follow US 117 would delay the highway for 20 to 25 years. (11) "
Froggie thanks for sharing the EIS link - I need to dive into it to update some information.
What also is interesting is how the state navigated through various changes in federal spending laws. Highways have always been political in Eastern North Carolina (which if you look at the political history of the state Eastern NC has been home to many power brokers and influence in our state) and Interstate 40 - especially in the 1984 Senate and Governor races - was no exception.
It wanted to go to the beaches to Wilmington because it was the largest city and Greenville and Rocky Mount were sleepy towns i guess. Norfolk would have also been a great idea, but it never happened. I-40 is the best choice of going to Wilmington. They should put the Barstow sign up again and pray that it doesn't get stolen again.