This really pissed me the fuck off. On I-20 in East Texas, they were running a work convoy in the left lane for the reason of weed spraying. They were causing a massive traffic jam. This was way worse than a stationary lane blockage because the blockage kept moving forward, getting farther away from me. Due to their movement, combined with unfair merging, it took forever to get past them. Traffic wasn't even heavy at all before getting to them.
A few counties later, I encountered another moving operation in the left lane, this time for striping. There was one big difference this time. A truck was on the right shoulder in advance with a message board saying "LEFT LANE CLOSED AHEAD". The merging was way smoother and more fair. I was able to get past then easily.
TxDOT really needs to re-evaluate how they handle moving operations. And they sure as hell don't need to be backing up traffic to spray weeds. That's just a dick move if you ask me.
I don't think OkDOT even sprays for weeds. It sure doesn't look like they do.
They used to spray Roundup along the shoulders to cut down on weed eating around guard rails. Haven't seen any of that recently.
4am on a Sunday is the time to perform trivial tasks such as weed spraying with no traffic to annoy. Whether the workers want to get up at such hours is another matter though.
I travel I-20 in East Texas several times a week and you get the same thing with the crew of three trucks that picks up the trash/large items off the roadway and shoulder. They only work one side each day, but if they are out in the afternoon, it backs up bad. I don't complain about it since there is so many pieces of tire that are generated everyday by the trucks, I am glad TxDOT has them picking almost every day. I would not want to be driving the back truck with the flashing arrow. I have seen many people almost run into the back of that truck trying to pass everyone who already moved to the open lane.
"Unfair merging" ?
Unfair merging is when some jerk-off sees all traffic has gone over to a single lane hundreds of yards in advance of the lane closure. All these cars are driving single file in one lane. Rather than merge in fairly behind the single file line of vehicles when he first encountered it, the jerk-off pulls a dick move by racing up in the empty lane right to the point where the lane closes and forces his way to cut in front of other drivers. That is unfair merging. And it is a total dick move because it slows the single file lane of traffic down to a crawl or a dead stop when the jerk-off cuts in line. Worse yet these jerk-off drivers don't exist in those situations as just one selfish motorist. No, there's always more. Just at the point where one jerk-off forces his way into cutting in line and the traffic starts to move again another jerk-off shows up to pull the same dick move. The line of cars would move past the obstruction much faster if all the motorists drove courteously. Unfortunately one jerk-off after another has to disrupt the constrained flow of traffic with his own selfish dick moves.
See https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=18745.0
There is a chain of thought out there that drivers should not line up single file in the open lane vacating the closing lane(s), and should occupy all lanes until the closing lane(s) are closed
I don't agree with the train of thought that both lanes should be occupied right up to the point where the lane closed sign blocking off the lane is placed. That is only a great formula for a full-on traffic jam where zero cars move at all. The dingbats who want to ride along in the lane that is fixing to be closed need to merge in to the free lane at the earliest opportunity. Otherwise they're going to be at the mercy of others who just won't let them into the free lane at all. Penalty for being a dope.
If I'm already in the correct lane and some nitwit is right there positioned at the lane closed sign and he wants to try to nose in front of me, even if there is no room to do so, I'm willing to trade paint with the jerk and cost him and his insurance a bunch of money over failure to yield the right of way. The dimwit insists on cutting in front of everyone else. He should have to wait for being a jerk.
In situations like that I feel like pulling a dick move of my own: straddling my pickup over the center line so these jerk-offs can't pass up to the front where the clear lane ends.
:-P
Meh. It has long been held by engineers that utilizing the full capacity of the road ensures better movement of traffic. The "fair merge" nonsense that Bobby is advocating is actually unfair to everyone since it ends up stymieing traffic, not helping it.
If the left lane is closed up ahead you merge to the right lane when you have an opening to do so. Simple as that. It's stupid to race up ahead where all the cars in one lane are bumper to bumper and try to force your way in there. Some drivers might let you in but many others will not.
YOU can move over miles in advance if that makes you happy. But you don't get to decide that an existing lane that's not closed to traffic is off-limits to everyone else. Why have that lane at all if your view were correct? That's stupid, provided traffic is slow already. If traffic is moving well, then you just get over at a good opportunity, but if traffic is slow, wasting available road space is moronic.
Quote from: Truvelo on March 29, 2019, 03:40:54 PM
4am on a Sunday is the time to perform trivial tasks such as weed spraying with no traffic to annoy. Whether the public wants to pay workers to get up at such hours is another matter though.
Fixed for you.
Quote from: 1995hooYOU can move over miles in advance if that makes you happy. But you don't get to decide that an existing lane that's not closed to traffic is off-limits to everyone else. Why have that lane at all if your view were correct? That's stupid, provided traffic is slow already. If traffic is moving well, then you just get over at a good opportunity, but if traffic is slow, wasting available road space is moronic.
Moving over miles in advance? I'm talking about moving the hell over when the last clear
and safe opportunity to do so is available. The thing that is moronic is racing up that last couple hundred yards and then expecting to force the vehicle into the lane when the cars are moving bumper to bumper at that point. The very last second merge attempt can often mean other cars having to slam their brakes, increasing the chance of rear-end collisions.
If the situation is a full-on traffic jam where most of the vehicles are stopped or barely creeping by, then yeah, one can expect any space to be filled up. Driving arrogantly, trying to butt into a lane where there is no damned space available to do so is what causes everything to deteriorate into a freaking traffic jam. Most people are not going to let the arrogant driver cut into their lane when he has reached the very end of his lane. He's going to be stuck and so are all the people who followed him up to that point.
This crap goes on in other traffic situations when the lanes are all open. Here in Lawton I see it all the time on NW Cache Road as it approaches I-44. Cache Road has only two lanes leading up to the interchange. The right lane splits to Westbound I-44 and 2nd Street and the left lane splits to I-44 Eastbound. More of the local traffic uses the right lane to go to WB I-44. Traffic will often be moving along nearly bumper to bumper approaching the interchange while the left lane is open. There's often at least one or two drivers that race up that left lane right to the point of the "Y" split and expect to cut in front of the other drivers who were already in the proper exit lane. They'll even come to dead stop in that exit lane trying to merge right.
And people not utilizing both lanes up to that merge point are not driving correctly.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on March 30, 2019, 02:27:43 AM
In situations like that I feel like pulling a dick move of my own: straddling my pickup over the center line so these jerk-offs can't pass up to the front where the clear lane ends.
People like that piss me the hell off. You are not a police officer. By the way, I'm not afraid to pass you on the shoulder just because you don't know how to drive between the lines. I've got an SUV with all-terrain tires, so I'll go in the gravel and grass if I need to.
If you and sixty other people want to sit in a single file at 0.0005 mph for five minutes with a wide-open lane next to you, that doesn't mean I want to also. There's no point. And I know how to merge over without making everybody stop, thank you very much. I don't come to a complete stop six inches from the road cones and try and merge from that spot. No, I gradually slow down to more or less match the other lane's speed
a little bit in advance of the road cones, then find a gap halfway big enough that I'm not an obstruction when sliding over–no doubt a similar maneuver to the one you made a quarter-mile farther back, except now I'm ahead of you. I know you think I should be behind you, but deal with it: you decided to get over earlier than necessary, and I didn't.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Quote from: kphoger on March 30, 2019, 08:01:35 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on March 30, 2019, 02:27:43 AM
In situations like that I feel like pulling a dick move of my own: straddling my pickup over the center line so these jerk-offs can't pass up to the front where the clear lane ends.
People like that piss me the hell off. You are not a police officer. By the way, I'm not afraid to pass you on the shoulder just because you don't know how to drive between the lines. I've got an SUV with all-terrain tires, so I'll go in the gravel and grass if I need to.
If you and sixty other people want to sit in a single file at 0.0005 mph for five minutes with a wide-open lane next to you, that doesn't mean I want to also. There's no point. And I know how to merge over without making everybody stop, thank you very much. I don't come to a complete stop six inches from the road cones and try and merge from that spot. No, I gradually slow down to more or less match the other lane's speed a little bit in advance of the road cones, then find a gap halfway big enough that I'm not an obstruction when sliding over–no doubt a similar maneuver to the one you made a quarter-mile farther back, except now I'm ahead of you. I know you think I should be behind you, but deal with it: you decided to get over earlier than necessary, and I didn't.
I see this every afternoon while traveling north on I235 in OKC. 3 lanes are open northbound until near the 50th Street exit yet people insist on coming to a near complete halt in the far left lane even though they do not have to get over for a mile or more. This stops EVERYBODY for no reason. Friday there was a large dually driving about 30 in that lane. He was pissing so many people off that they were passing him on the inside shoulder.
If you want to get over early then by all means go ahead and do so. It doesn't bother me to let people in who are LEGALLY using a lane that ends soon. If they signal and slow down, I let them in. It doesn't cost me any time and keeps my blood pressure low.
Quote from: RothmanAnd people not utilizing both lanes up to that merge point are not driving correctly.
If you're driving in the left lane exiting to Oklahoma City, but intend to go to Wichita Falls you gotta merge right when the safe opportunity presents itself. If you drive up right to the point of that "Y" split and the right lane is filled up with cars, you can only be mad at yourself if the cars force you to the left and onto the wrong on-ramp. A crowded lane filled with moving cars isn't always going to magically open a spot for someone wanting to cut in line at the very last second.
Quote from: kphogerPeople like that piss me the hell off. You are not a police officer. By the way, I'm not afraid to pass you on the shoulder just because you don't know how to drive between the lines. I've got an SUV with all-terrain tires, so I'll go in the gravel and grass if I need to.
Go back and
re-read what I wrote. I did not say I actually did that shit. I said I
feel like doing that when some jackass ignores the previous openings he had to safely merge and chooses to speed up past everyone in the right lane and then try to cut in line where there is no damned opening. That shit slows down everything to a stop.
You may feel like you can pass someone on the gravel shoulder. But if I'm driving along in the right lane rising up to freeway speed and I'm already pretty close to the rear bumper of the car in front of me you should have zero expectations of me allowing you to cut in front of me at the split point of the road.
Quote from: kphogerIf you and sixty other people want to sit in a single file at 0.0005 mph for five minutes with a wide-open lane next to you, that doesn't mean I want to also.
Who said anything about going the speed of smell? Somehow traffic jam etiquette got inserted into this "debate" when the original point was about Interstate lane closures: a situation where vehicles are usually still moving along at 30mph-40mph through the work/construction zone.
Quote from: rte66manIf you want to get over early then by all means go ahead and do so. It doesn't bother me to let people in who are LEGALLY using a lane that ends soon. If they signal and slow down, I let them in. It doesn't cost me any time and keeps my blood pressure low.
I'm not talking about merging right or left way the hell back. It's just a simple matter of looking at the situation up ahead. If there are openings up ahead and people immediately in front are driving too slow then yeah I'll pass around and get to that next opening. But it's still an actual opening. I'm not trying to jam my right fender in someone's way when there's no room to do it.
We've talked about the "zipper merge" before, and some states mandate it, while others specifically want you to get over to the open lane as soon as possible.
Myself, I prefer to move out of the open lane well in advance of its closure. If someone goes shooting up the lane that's being closed and wants to shove their way into traffic, I make sure you couldn't squeeze a hair between me and the bumper of the car in front of me if they want in. If someone tries to get over earlier, I may let them in, especially if I got caught in the lane that's running out and someone lets me in. But this is well in advance of the closure point.
I'd much prefer states sign "use both lanes to merge point, then take turns" directives, instead of it being a free-for-all.
In terms of recent practices I can only comment on how Oklahoma and Texas place signs for lane closures. Both tend to place the warning signs well in advance of the actual dead end of the closed lane. In some cases it seems like a good mile in advance. Obviously it's a repeated hint for vehicles to merge over into a single lane and do it ASAP. But they sign it way in advance because they understand there will always be arrogant dicks who insist on racing forward and then jamming their way in front of everyone else. So if the conflicts are going to happen they place the signs to try to get the conflicts done before the closed lane completely dead ends on itself.
But yeah, if I'm moving along around 40mph and almost close enough to trade paint with the car in front of me, I'm not going to be all that sympathetic to some tardy idiot who took his chances to try to cut in line and now he is trying to butt in front of me. He can just keep driving in that lane, even if it takes him to an on-ramp to the freeway going the opposite damned direction! I'm not going to slam on my brakes and possibly get rear-ended by the car behind me just to let that tardy jerk into the lane where he should have merged 2000 yards ago. He can pull over and stop in the median, drive the wrong way to the next exit to turn around or just go pound sand for all I care. Freaking merge in when you have the clear opening to do so. Don't rush up expecting to cut in front of everyone else! Duh!!!
Quote from: Brian556 on March 29, 2019, 01:20:03 AM
This really pissed me the fuck off. On I-20 in East Texas, they were running a work convoy in the left lane for the reason of weed spraying. They were causing a massive traffic jam. This was way worse than a stationary lane blockage because the blockage kept moving forward, getting farther away from me. Due to their movement, combined with unfair merging, it took forever to get past them. Traffic wasn't even heavy at all before getting to them.
Just wondering...how big was the traffic jam?
And if you said there wasn't much traffic, then it's possible another issue was at play. All you need is someone going 15 mph for no reason to suddenly cause traffic to jam up for quite a while.
Being that I'm sure they do this spraying all over, it would be necessary to know if there huge jams are common, or was this just a one-off.
Placing warning signs in advance doesn't mean "get over now." Exit signs show up a mile or two ahead of the exit. I guess under Bobby5280's view of the world, that means you must try to exit the highway right then when you see those signs?
All this talk about "arrogant" while calling everyone else on the road nasty names makes me wonder if he really knows what the word "arrogant" means.
Quote from: kphoger on March 30, 2019, 08:01:35 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on March 30, 2019, 02:27:43 AM
In situations like that I feel like pulling a dick move of my own: straddling my pickup over the center line so these jerk-offs can't pass up to the front where the clear lane ends.
People like that piss me the hell off. You are not a police officer. By the way, I'm not afraid to pass you on the shoulder just because you don't know how to drive between the lines. I've got an SUV with all-terrain tires, so I'll go in the gravel and grass if I need to.
If you and sixty other people want to sit in a single file at 0.0005 mph for five minutes with a wide-open lane next to you, that doesn't mean I want to also. There's no point. And I know how to merge over without making everybody stop, thank you very much. I don't come to a complete stop six inches from the road cones and try and merge from that spot. No, I gradually slow down to more or less match the other lane's speed a little bit in advance of the road cones, then find a gap halfway big enough that I'm not an obstruction when sliding over–no doubt a similar maneuver to the one you made a quarter-mile farther back, except now I'm ahead of you. I know you think I should be behind you, but deal with it: you decided to get over earlier than necessary, and I didn't.
Last time I was in OKC I damn near got into a fist fight because someone did this to me at the I-235/I-44 construction zone. When I went around him on the shoulder because he was taking up two lanes, I gave him a nice little honk and wave and he became so enraged he decided to follow me and ride my bumper. He eventually gave it a little kiss and when I pulled over I surveyed the damage(or lack thereof) with this guy in my face the majority of the time screaming profanities at me and I opted to let it go because my little brother was in the car. Had he not been, I was pretty mad and against my better judgement I might have fought back more than pushing him back as he gave me a nice push upon first contact after getting out of the car.
The thing is, I drive fast but I'm a pretty mellow driver. This all could have been avoided if this guy didn't try and play Mr. Road Warrior Cop. This type of behavior infuriates me to no end when I see this. Honestly, this makes me madder than rubbernecking. Stay in your lane and mind your damn business! Sheesh!
I am not sure about other states as I haven't seen it, but I've seen a few occasions in rural interstates in Oklahoma where they have a "MERGE NOW STATE LAW" sign. I don't know know what the actual laws are regarding that. I have found that rather interesting.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on March 31, 2019, 01:00:06 AM
In terms of recent practices I can only comment on how Oklahoma and Texas place signs for lane closures. Both tend to place the warning signs well in advance of the actual dead end of the closed lane. In some cases it seems like a good mile in advance. Obviously it's a repeated hint for vehicles to merge over into a single lane and do it ASAP. But they sign it way in advance because they understand there will always be arrogant dicks who insist on racing forward and then jamming their way in front of everyone else. So if the conflicts are going to happen they place the signs to try to get the conflicts done before the closed lane completely dead ends on itself.
Oklahoma also has [MERGE NOW ->] signs well in advance of the lane closure, but Texas does not. Oklahoma officially expects you to move over before it's necessary, whereas Texas does not. Minnesota actually has signs that are the exact opposite of Oklahoma's, instructing drivers to use both lanes all the way to the merge point and then take turns. What you consider "unfair merging" is actually the law of the land in other places.
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 31, 2019, 08:43:45 AM
Placing warning signs in advance doesn't mean "get over now." Exit signs show up a mile or two ahead of the exit. I guess under Bobby5280's view of the world, that means you must try to exit the highway right then when you see those signs?
More to the point, sometimes there is an exit in between the warning sign and the actual lane closure. I've had it happen before that everybody merged over early, leaving my lane wide open, then one or two truly arrogant drivers decided to straddle the lane dividing stripe so I couldn't "unfairly" pass everybody in the lane that was closing–except that I was actually exiting that lane
before the merge point. There have also been times that everybody moved into the other lane, even though the signs were wrong: the lane wasn't actually closed at the time. A traffic jam for no reason, all because people decided to get over in advance.
Quote from: 1955hooPlacing warning signs in advance doesn't mean "get over now." Exit signs show up a mile or two ahead of the exit. I guess under Bobby5280's view of the world, that means you must try to exit the highway right then when you see those signs?
That ridiculous comment just goes to show you totally don't understand my point. I'm not insisting that everyone merge over as soon as they see the first warning signs of the upcoming lane closure (or in my other example with the Cache Road "Y" split at I-44). My point is drivers should merge over when it looks like it's the last safe, clear
and obvious opportunity to do so. Merge over when there is still an open gap between moving vehicles to use. It's pretty simple. You can't always expect two vehicles moving bumper to bumper to create to a gap for you at the last second.
I do understand your point, and I'm saying that in already-slow traffic there isn't necessarily going to be a "clear and obvious" spot to get over. Getting over at the end of a line of stupeys who panic when they see a "lane ends 2 miles" sign is not a reasonable option.
A "Y" split, or any off-ramp, is a different situation because there a lane is not ending–it's exiting the highway. It's unacceptable to block the exit, or to stop on the gore area trying to shove over. (I see cabbies do this all the time in the Ninth Street Tunnel in DC.)
Quote from: Bobby5280 on March 30, 2019, 09:50:45 PM
Go back and re-read what I wrote. I did not say I actually did that shit. I said I feel like doing that ...
For what it's worth, I did read that you said you
felt like doing that. When I said "you" all those times, I didn't actually mean you specifically, but rather the hypothetical driver who
does actually straddle the center stripe to prevent people from driving in the other lane. Sorry for making it sound like it was all directed at you.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on March 30, 2019, 09:50:45 PM
... when some jackass ignores the previous openings he had to safely merge and chooses to speed up past everyone in the right lane and then try to cut in line where there is no damned opening. That shit slows down everything to a stop.
What I was replying to was your feeling like "straddling [your] pickup over the center line so these jerk-offs can't pass up to the front". So my question is this: how do you know there's no opening ahead of you and won't be when that other driver makes it to the road cones? That other driver is not yet trying "to cut in line", or else you wouldn't feel like "straddling ... the center line so [he] can't pass".
Quote from: Bobby5280 on March 30, 2019, 09:50:45 PM
a situation where vehicles are usually still moving along at 30mph-40mph through the work/construction zone.
So... if traffic is moving along at 30 to 40 mph, and you've already gotten over into the other lane, and I pass you by at 45 mph and then slow down and merge into an open space 300 yards ahead of you–then you have no problem with that, right? You don't know 300 yards (or 400 or 500 or whatever point you merged over at) whether there will be an open space by the time I reach the road cones, so you have no way to determine that
you chose the "correct" point at which to merge over. The only time there's clearly not going to be much space to merge over is when traffic is at a near-standstill and everyone is bumper to bumper–which you specifically clarified is
not the type of situation you were talking about.
Quote from: 1955hooI do understand your point, and I'm saying that in already-slow traffic there isn't necessarily going to be a "clear and obvious" spot to get over. Getting over at the end of a line of stupeys who panic when they see a "lane ends 2 miles" sign is not a reasonable option.
The original poster's example was a rural Interstate in East Texas. On rural Interstates I've driven through plenty of zones reduced to one lane for construction or other types of work without traffic slowing down to a crawl. I've experienced plenty of instances where the flow of traffic is trying to go 5-10mph
above the posted construction zone speed, even if the single lane is tightly flanked by Jersey barriers. I think this could be one reason why often here in Oklahoma I see OHP trooper vehicles nowadays parked at some construction zones with their emergency lights flashing.
The point is with many of these rural one-lane zones unless some kind of conflict happens, like someone cutting off another driver in the next lane and that other driver suddenly slamming the brakes to avoid trading paint. That kind of thing is likely to happen if one driver has completely run out of road and has to merge immediately.
Quote from: kphogerWhat I was replying to was your feeling like "straddling [your] pickup over the center line so these jerk-offs can't pass up to the front". So my question is this: how do you know there's no opening ahead of you and won't be when that other driver makes it to the road cones? That other driver is not yet trying "to cut in line", or else you wouldn't feel like "straddling ... the center line so [he] can't pass".
There's a lot of places around here where the roads go up and down hillsides or up and down river/creek valleys. With the example in Lawton of Cache Road approaching I-44 the road is going downhill enough that it's not hard to see the traffic situation down to the point of the "Y" split. I can usually see if cars are bunched up at the split or not. If there is still room to pass (and enough of the road left before my exit) then I'll certainly get around the slower folks.
Quote from: kphogerSo... if traffic is moving along at 30 to 40 mph, and you've already gotten over into the other lane, and I pass you by at 45 mph and then slow down and merge into an open space 300 yards ahead of you–then you have no problem with that, right?
I have no problem with that. If there's a gap up ahead then by all means use it. The problem I have is with folks who speed up and find no gap then literally try to cut someone off to force open a gap. That conflict slows down everyone else or (much worse) it causes an accident which slows everyone to a dead stop.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 01, 2019, 08:13:22 PM
Quote from: kphogerSo... if traffic is moving along at 30 to 40 mph, and you've already gotten over into the other lane, and I pass you by at 45 mph and then slow down and merge into an open space 300 yards ahead of you–then you have no problem with that, right?
I have no problem with that. If there's a gap up ahead then by all means use it. The problem I have is with folks who speed up and find no gap then literally try to cut someone off to force open a gap. That conflict slows down everyone else or (much worse) it causes an accident which slows everyone to a dead stop.
You don't know if you'll find a gap until you get there.
Isn't that what a combination of scanning ahead and driver's intuition is for?
I prefer merging into the last gap I can visibly SEE rather than speeding alongside a cluster of cars in the next lane gambling on a gap opening up at the last second.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 01, 2019, 11:43:50 PM
I prefer merging into the last gap I can visibly SEE rather than speeding alongside a cluster of cars in the next lane gambling on a gap opening up at the last second.
Fine. I prefer not. We can each live with the other's way of doing things.
Quote from: kphoger on April 01, 2019, 08:29:09 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 01, 2019, 08:13:22 PM
Quote from: kphogerSo... if traffic is moving along at 30 to 40 mph, and you've already gotten over into the other lane, and I pass you by at 45 mph and then slow down and merge into an open space 300 yards ahead of you–then you have no problem with that, right?
I have no problem with that. If there's a gap up ahead then by all means use it. The problem I have is with folks who speed up and find no gap then literally try to cut someone off to force open a gap. That conflict slows down everyone else or (much worse) it causes an accident which slows everyone to a dead stop.
You don't know if you'll find a gap until you get there.
"When you come to a gap in the road, take it." --Yogi Bear
1) zipper merging requires matching speed. As someone who prefers to not break the speed limit, I get out of the closing lane ASAP
2) attempting to pass while your lane is ending, especially if you're passing from the right, is just a bad idea so don't do it. If you match speed with the adjacent traffic they will more likely understand your intention and let you in when the time comes. You can still achieve some capacity increase without pissing people off.
3) zipper merging is efficient when people are in on the plan. of course, being America people are generally not in on the plan, and neither is the law. zipper merging doesn't work when 1 lane has right of way over the other. CYA.
We have discussed this before in other threads, and it can get quite interesting. It is actually a discussion that I quite enjoy.
I personally am a major advocate of zipper merging -- this is what Minnesota does, as mentioned -- and it works really well.
When it comes to temporary lane closures for construction, it is actually best if drivers don't even know what lane is closed. All they need to know is that the two lanes are going to come together in X miles, and (a) if traffic is free flowing, normal expectations of keep right apply until the merge point, and (b) if traffic is not free flowing, stay in your lane and take turns when you get to the merge point. It really does not matter what lane you are going to be using in the construction zone. Very simple.
Where my view gets a bit more complicated is in cases of exits, where either the mainline or the exit ramp is free-flowing, while the other one is jammed. It is usually not fair to apply zipper merging in these cases, because (a) there is no predetermined merge point, and (b) it is nonsensical to interfere with traffic making the free flowing movement. Yet some people do it anyways and try to jam in at the last second, and that really does make me mad -- the key difference from above being that they are not simply taking advantage of a wasted lane (and if they were, I would have no qualms). Rather, there is an existing stream of traffic that has full rights to that lane, and for you to hammer the brakes in their lane and try to squeeze into a non-existent space is just not acceptable.
I-490 WB at I-590 (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1402478,-77.5408671,3a,31.8y,312.43h,89.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stj3tewetqAFyjH3RgTnIvg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) is the location where I have discussed this happening in the past, as a high percentage of the traffic tries to cram into the far right lane during afternoon rush hour. It still happens, and it still frustrates me, but I don't have reason to take that route home as much as I used to, which I think has been good for my blood pressure! :-D
Big freaking deal! I personally don't mind those sprayers being out there, as long as it's not during the commuting hours.
Quote from: webny99 on April 03, 2019, 08:04:08 AM
When it comes to temporary lane closures for construction, it is actually best if drivers don't even know what lane is closed. All they need to know is that the two lanes are going to come together in X miles
I like this. A lot.
In fact, I'd advocate striping to indicate
both the right and left lanes converging to the middle. Even if the construction is clearly on one side of the other, signage and striping doesn't
have to favor one lane or the other. The whole issue as it is leads to drivers in the continuing lane behaving like "
I deserve to be in this lane and you don't" and drivers in the terminating lane behaving like "
I deserve to be in that lane just as much as you". Take away the distinction between continuing and terminating lanes, and that should resolve the conflict.
(https://i.imgur.com/6lHskXB.png)
Quote from: kphoger on April 03, 2019, 02:12:26 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 03, 2019, 08:04:08 AM
When it comes to temporary lane closures for construction, it is actually best if drivers don't even know what lane is closed. All they need to know is that the two lanes are going to come together in X miles
I like this. A lot.
In fact, I'd advocate striping to indicate both the right and left lanes converging to the middle. Even if the construction is clearly on one side of the other, signage and striping doesn't have to favor one lane or the other. The whole issue as it is leads to drivers in the continuing lane behaving like "I deserve to be in this lane and you don't" and drivers in the terminating lane behaving like "I deserve to be in that lane just as much as you". Take away the distinction between continuing and terminating lanes, and that should resolve the conflict.
(https://i.imgur.com/6lHskXB.png)
But they don't.
Instead, I have encountered signs that say:
"STATE LAW
MERGE NOW"
The traffic did not back up. Putting the signs far from the road work gives the motorists enough time to merge into the open lane. Everybody let every body else merge into the lane. It seems to be just as effective as restripeing.
On the other hand, they have to restripe them anyways since the open lane is usually a shoulder.
Quote from: In_Correct on April 03, 2019, 02:51:18 PM
Instead, I have encountered signs that say:
"STATE LAW
MERGE NOW"
The only state I've ever seen those signs in is Oklahoma.
Quote from: qguy on April 03, 2019, 06:14:51 AM
Quote from: kphoger on April 01, 2019, 08:29:09 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 01, 2019, 08:13:22 PM
Quote from: kphogerSo... if traffic is moving along at 30 to 40 mph, and you've already gotten over into the other lane, and I pass you by at 45 mph and then slow down and merge into an open space 300 yards ahead of you–then you have no problem with that, right?
I have no problem with that. If there's a gap up ahead then by all means use it. The problem I have is with folks who speed up and find no gap then literally try to cut someone off to force open a gap. That conflict slows down everyone else or (much worse) it causes an accident which slows everyone to a dead stop.
You don't know if you'll find a gap until you get there.
"When you come to a gap in the road, take it." --Yogi Bear
heh heh (see my sig)