Big Giant Sign?
Quote from: SoCal Kid on May 05, 2019, 08:51:54 PM
Big Giant Sign?
Big Green Sign. You'll see BBS (Big Brown Sign) sometimes used for similar (except for the color) signs on National Park Service roads.
And sometimes LGS for little green sign.
When I was new I didn't know what it meant either because it's not used much outside the roadgeek community, hence a Google search proved unsuccessful.
Quote from: webny99 on May 05, 2019, 09:08:12 PM
And sometimes LGS for little green sign.
When I was new I didn't know what it meant either because it's not used much outside the roadgeek community, hence a Google search proved unsuccessful.
A dictionary website i found via Google gave me a bunch of weird results, and yeah no actual answer. A result was Big Green S-word
Funny you mentioned this. This was one of the screening questions I had to answer to join the Roadgeekery FB discussion group. Guess I got it right since my request was accepted.
Yeah, "BGS" is a term that was invented back in the usenet days, by people in the roadgeek community who had no insight as to what the correct technical terminology might be.
There is now a greater level of awareness that "guide sign" is the proper technical term, but "BGS" has stuck around for casual use.
Guide sign is the MUTCD term for any sign whose principal purpose is to convey directional information, regardless of size. If you go to official sources from various state DOTs, you can see a variation in terminology used to refer to signs of the type discussed in MUTCD Chapter 2E (guide signs for freeways/expressways): large guide sign, large panel sign, sometimes just panel sign (if the agency uses single-sheet substrates for all other guide signs), etc. This is all tied to the forms of substrate construction the state DOT specifies in its standard plan sheets and for which it has created bid items. (Most state DOTs buy their large guide signing by the square foot, but not all do. Florida DOT, for example, counts signs desired for each of several categories based on range of square footage: so many signs with square footage between 25 and 40, so many signs with more than 40 square feet, etc.)
Kentucky's semi-official terminology for the large guide signs found on freeways is "panel sign." Kentucky uses extruded panel signs for its big guide signs on freeways, as opposed to other states (North Carolina, up until recently Virginia, New York, etc.) that use increment panel signs.
I'm unaware of any official term for the smaller signs found on surface routes. One engineer I work with calls them "green boards."
No big deal. It took me a while to figure out what BGS means. Then again, I'm used to deciphering new acronyms. I'm a retired government employee. I've had entire conversations in acronyms.
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on May 06, 2019, 12:06:06 AM
Funny you mentioned this. This was one of the screening questions I had to answer to join the Roadgeekery FB discussion group. Guess I got it right since my request was accepted.
One of the screening questions I had to answer to join a HO Model Railroading FB group a friend invited me to was "What is the airspeed of an unladen swallow?"
Quote from: roadman on May 06, 2019, 04:10:11 PM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on May 06, 2019, 12:06:06 AM
Funny you mentioned this. This was one of the screening questions I had to answer to join the Roadgeekery FB discussion group. Guess I got it right since my request was accepted.
One of the screening questions I had to answer to join a HO Model Railroading FB group a friend invited me to was "What is the airspeed of an unladen swallow?"
Is it an African swallow or a European swallow?
I think "BGS" is a perfectly good and appropriate term because it's descriptive. I use the term (spelled out the first time I use it) when I give directions–I'll say, for example, "The Big Green Sign lists Manassas and Front Royal" or whatever.
^ Appropriate when speaking strictly within the roadgeek community. Using it with DOT folks at public meetings may get you a blank face.
And on that note, I've noticed that my preference over the years has gravitated towards using proper/official terminology..."guide signage" in this case.
If I were to say it out loud I'd say "Big Green Sign," not "BGS," regardless of the person to whom I might be speaking.
BGS is definitely a roadgeek term, not an official one. I remember a bridge engineer friend of mine was once impressed when a text message of mine included the term "SPUI", but he had no clue what I meant later by "BGS".
I think Kurumi was the one who coined BGS, LGS, and BBS back on MTR.
Why is NJDOT one to use LGSes for supplemental guides on freeways and not large ones?
I have long feared that people may not know what "BGS" means, so I try to spell it out.
Lately, I've found myself gravitating towards "guide sign", as it's fewer syllables and a bit more well understood, even by non-roadgeeks. Day-to-day, I'm not conversing with roadgeeks, so using "BGS" would only serve to confuse people, so I don't find myself using that term anywhere except here, and even then, pretty rarely.
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 06, 2019, 04:26:19 PM
Is it an African swallow or a European swallow?
That was my answer. And I was admitted to the group.
Don't forget the other members of the BGS family.
Big Green Sign -- General guide signs for exits or control cities.
Big Yellow Sign -- Used for warnings, such as a lane drop not associated with a ramp, e.g., "Right Lane Ends 1 Mile"
Big Blue Sign -- Less common, since the services signs tend to be smaller -- though I have seen larger ones with 9 logos. But some larger, overhead blue signs exist for rest areas. (Were these once used in lieu of BGSs in Connecticut?)
Big Orange Sign -- Used in construction zones, particularly those of a large enough scale that "oranging-out" parts of a BGS is not sufficient, and the traffic pattern change is significant. The recent Goethals Bridge rebuild used some of these. Most if not all have black lettering.
Big Brown Sign -- Used for tourist attractions, especially historical sites. Perhaps not coincidentally, highways run by the National Park Service use brown signs instead of green ones, usually with a different Palatino-like font. (The Southern State Parkway on Long Island used to use brown signs, but did they use the conventional highway gothic font?) Also used at some airports.
Big White Sign -- Presents information that doesn't neatly fit into the other categories, like transit info. Color of the lettering may vary depending on application. Also formerly used in places like the New York City expressways, with a dark grey lettering, before BGSs took over.
Big Black Sign -- Rare, might be an alternative to white signs. Sometimes used for upcoming weigh station instructions. (Did South Jersey use these for local roads at one time?)
Big Purple Sign -- Are these a new standard for routes with automatic toll collection? Also, Disney parks seem to use some of these on their access roads.
Big Red Sign -- Perhaps the rarest of all, indicating a stop ahead or a route to be avoided. One of the contraflow HOV lanes in Northern VA (Shirley Hwy?) used to have a red overhead sign reading "Do Not Enter" with white lettering posted over the wrong-way entrance ramps (in addition to the multiple lighted crossing-gate arms). Newer installs, however, use an oversized MUTCD Do Not Enter symbol/sign instead. Not sure if the recent reconstructions have replaced the older signs.
Quote from: lepidopteran on May 07, 2019, 10:42:39 AM
Big Red Sign -- Perhaps the rarest of all, indicating a stop ahead or a route to be avoided. One of the contraflow HOV lanes in Northern VA (Shirley Hwy?) used to have a red overhead sign reading "Do Not Enter" with white lettering posted over the wrong-way entrance ramps (in addition to the multiple lighted crossing-gate arms). Newer installs, however, use an oversized MUTCD Do Not Enter symbol/sign instead. Not sure if the recent reconstructions have replaced the older signs.
Or to indicate prohibitions on restricted routes, e.g. hazardous materials from the Lowry Hill Tunnel on I-94 (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9660909,-93.2693745,3a,45y,276.62h,93.65t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdiktK8Ad5mZATW7pogiZbA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).
The Shirley Highway Big Red "Do Not Enter" sign is still there but isn't long for this world. It, and its neighbor on the same assembly, will be replaced this summer as part of construction.
There are similar signs on I-66 outside the Beltway, BTW, at the two HOV on-ramps because of how they enter in the center of the highway. Edited to add Street View links at Stringfellow Road (https://goo.gl/maps/wkL7hB8uqxorKC2i8) and Monument Drive (https://goo.gl/maps/d6U3fSDt6EpJcE5E7). Good chance these may come down sometime in the next several years due to HO/T lane construction.
Big Blue Signs are relatively common in Ontario. Route 401 uses them in place of BGSs over the Collector Lanes in Toronto to distinguish signage from the BGSs over the Express Lanes. Tolled highways (407 and 412) also use Big Blue Signs, and signs on other highways guiding drivers to the toll roads are usually blue as well.
In terms of Big Black Signs, when I was a kid (early '70s), as God is my witness, I noticed those were used on in place of Big Green Signs on a stretch of freeway in the Webster Groves/St. Louis (MO) area, which I found strange, since I was used to green. (I guess even then I had a hard-wired accountant's brain.) Could have been I-44.
QuoteBig Brown Sign -- Used for tourist attractions, especially historical sites. Perhaps not coincidentally, highways run by the National Park Service use brown signs instead of green ones, usually with a different Palatino-like font. (The Southern State Parkway on Long Island used to use brown signs, but did they use the conventional highway gothic font?) Also used at some airports.
And some military bases:
https://goo.gl/maps/XnT7FYZf4nibg7h78
Quote from: kennyshark on May 07, 2019, 01:16:24 PM
In terms of Big Black Signs, when I was a kid (early '70s), as God is my witness, I noticed those were used on in place of Big Green Signs on a stretch of freeway in the Webster Groves/St. Louis (MO) area, which I found strange, since I was used to green. (I guess even then I had a hard-wired accountant's brain.) Could have been I-44.
Your comment reminds me that there used to be Big Black Signs over the Shirley Highway HOV lanes in Virginia. They were directional guide signs given a different color to clarify that they were for the center carriageway. The signs were replaced with boring green ones in the late 1980s or early 1990s; the only one remaining is a southbound "ALL TRAFFIC" pull-through sign at the Turkeycock ramp complex, and it will be replaced this year because it's for two lanes and the rebuilt road will have three lanes.
Some Big Brown Signs use Clearview for some of the text instead of the fancier NPS typeface. The GW Parkway in Virginia and DC has some brown signs with "NEXT EXIT" or similar text in all-caps Clearview.
What's the difference between BGS and LGS? What makes a sign big?
https://goo.gl/maps/F5w7qRZYiudAfznc6
The two on the left are big green signs. The one on the right is a white sign that tells truckers to stay out of the left lane. Is that a big white sign or a little one? I'd have to say that the ones with three vertical supports are big and the one with two are little. Similarly,
https://goo.gl/maps/8FLASKpw2CbbnbCp7
That's a big sign.
https://goo.gl/maps/VNFzW13rXuZJGuTB7
That's a little sign, with only two legs.
Is that the standard, 3+ makes a sign big? I like the childlike simplicity of the term "big green sign," but do we really need a size differentiation? Where does that differentiation happen? Is it a distinction without a difference? If a sign 72 inches wide is little and 73 inches wide is big, is there any reason for distinguishing? I'd rather distinguish between ground-mounted and overhead, because that affects how the sign is looked at, and sometimes whether or not it's seen. But I don't think we really need that, either. To me, they're all big green signs, because they're all bigger than street blades, and how big doesn't really make a difference to what they are.
Edit: Did I just write a self-esteem speech for short people?
Quote from: wxfree on May 07, 2019, 03:36:13 PM
What's the difference between BGS and LGS? What makes a sign big?
I've typically seen 'LGS' used to refer to ones such as
Nebraska's junction signs (https://goo.gl/maps/L6AyECtHeqQpKpwZ8).
But, to answer your question in another way: large ones are larger than small ones.
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 07, 2019, 02:47:33 PM
Quote from: kennyshark on May 07, 2019, 01:16:24 PM
In terms of Big Black Signs, when I was a kid (early '70s), as God is my witness, I noticed those were used on in place of Big Green Signs on a stretch of freeway in the Webster Groves/St. Louis (MO) area, which I found strange, since I was used to green. (I guess even then I had a hard-wired accountant's brain.) Could have been I-44.
Your comment reminds me that there used to be Big Black Signs over the Shirley Highway HOV lanes in Virginia. They were directional guide signs given a different color to clarify that they were for the center carriageway. The signs were replaced with boring green ones in the late 1980s or early 1990s; the only one remaining is a southbound "ALL TRAFFIC" pull-through sign at the Turkeycock ramp complex, and it will be replaced this year because it's for two lanes and the rebuilt road will have three lanes.
More discussion about the Big Black Signs can be found at: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=12351.msg299542#msg299542
Quote
Some Big Brown Signs use Clearview for some of the text instead of the fancier NPS typeface. The GW Parkway in Virginia and DC has some brown signs with "NEXT EXIT" or similar text in all-caps Clearview.
Current MassDOT standards for NPS signs on Interstates and freeways call for the text to be Highway Gothic Series D mixed-case instead of the NPS font.
Quote from: kphoger on May 07, 2019, 03:41:43 PM
Quote from: wxfree on May 07, 2019, 03:36:13 PM
What's the difference between BGS and LGS? What makes a sign big?
I've typically seen 'LGS' used to refer to ones such as Nebraska's junction signs (https://goo.gl/maps/L6AyECtHeqQpKpwZ8).
But, to answer your question in another way: large ones are larger than small ones.
I was thinking of smaller signs with one leg, like a route shield with a green background white border, like that sign with just the US 77 symbol on it, as a little green sign. I know I've seen them, but I can't remember where. I tend to be unnecessarily philosophical. To me, it's an interesting question whether we need a distinction, or if it was just made up because someone said "big green sign" to describe something and it seemed to warrant a distinction between big and little.
I've always considered the term BGS as applying to larger extruded or increment panel guide signs - both overhead and ground-mounted, found on Interstates and freeways (including entrance ramps at interchanges0, and the term LGS as applying to smaller sheet aluminum guide signs found on secondary roads.
Quote from: roadman on May 07, 2019, 03:43:40 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 07, 2019, 02:47:33 PM
Your comment reminds me that there used to be Big Black Signs over the Shirley Highway HOV lanes in Virginia. They were directional guide signs given a different color to clarify that they were for the center carriageway. The signs were replaced with boring green ones in the late 1980s or early 1990s; the only one remaining is a southbound "ALL TRAFFIC" pull-through sign at the Turkeycock ramp complex, and it will be replaced this year because it's for two lanes and the rebuilt road will have three lanes.
More discussion about the Big Black Signs can be found at: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=12351.msg299542#msg299542
....
My post earlier in that thread has a Street View link to the red and black signs I've mentioned in this thread.
Quote from: wxfree on May 07, 2019, 03:50:46 PMI was thinking of smaller signs with one leg, like a route shield with a green background white border, like that sign with just the US 77 symbol on it, as a little green sign. I know I've seen them, but I can't remember where. I tend to be unnecessarily philosophical. To me, it's an interesting question whether we need a distinction, or if it was just made up because someone said "big green sign" to describe something and it seemed to warrant a distinction between big and little.
In practice, the distinction is based on size (usually letter height rather than some measure of total panel size), function, or substrate construction, with each of these receiving different degrees of emphasis in different jurisdictions. In the US we tend to play up the size distinction with signs for conventional roads being of different format and generally smaller (24" shields, 6" or 8" letter height) than signs for expressways or freeways of similar speed limit (36" shields, 16" or 20" letter height). Expressways and freeways are the natural habitat of large guide signs, but it does not follow that every guide sign used on them is a large guide sign. River crossing signs are an example of small guide signs that often appear on expressways and freeways.
In other countries the distinction between big and small is less hard-and-fast, with the same basic substrate construction being scaled up for higher-class roads. In Britain, for example, signing for all primary routes is drawn from the same basic menu, with ones we would classify as expressway and freeway tending to receive multiple advance signs for grade-separated junctions (similar to the action signing sequence on a US freeway) with a larger size of lettering.
And even in the US, some states emphasize the big/small distinction in overall look less than others. In California, for example, most guide signs use mixed-case Series E Modified (associated with freeways) for destination legend regardless of whether they are actually on freeways. All guide signs are classified as such (G or SG sign spec codes) with no big/small distinction, and conceptually all forms of substrate construction are available on all types of roads. But there are some types of G sign (such as the "Turn-Off 1/4 Mile" sign) that are not seen on freeways, and letter sizes reflect the
MUTCD big/small distinction.
P.S. Guide-sign route shield and cardinal direction word against a green background as a route confirmatory sign is a New Mexico thing (example (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1360056,-106.6042488,3a,15y,86.24h,88.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIlbaZP02D3DJkiQW2ywI3A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)). Functionally I regard it more as a variation of the unisign approach (itself a variation of the plain-vanilla
MUTCD Chapter 2D approach where the message is built out of physically separate independent-mount shields and cardinal direction tabs) than as something addressed by
MUTCD Chapter 2E.
Quote from: J N Winkler on May 07, 2019, 04:45:28 PM
P.S. Guide-sign route shield and cardinal direction word against a green background as a route confirmatory sign is a New Mexico thing (example (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1360056,-106.6042488,3a,15y,86.24h,88.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIlbaZP02D3DJkiQW2ywI3A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)). Functionally I regard it more as a variation of the unisign approach (itself a variation of the plain-vanilla MUTCD Chapter 2D approach where the message is built out of physically separate independent-mount shields and cardinal direction tabs) than as something addressed by MUTCD Chapter 2E.
These were incredibly common in Washington State until recently. Route markers are still single-piece panels, except for interstates, which have reverted to multiple-piece panels.
Quote from: wxfree on May 07, 2019, 03:36:13 PM
What's the difference between BGS and LGS? What makes a sign big?
An LGS is constructed under the guidance of Chapter 2D of the MUTCD, and a BGS uses Chapter 2E. That's the distinction that people are trying to get at–distinguishing between the large freeway-style signs that traditionally use mixed-case Series E(M), had button copy back in the day, etc. and the smaller conventional-road signs.
Um I think my answer has been answered more than once, don't understand the continuing discussion lol
Quote from: SoCal Kid on May 07, 2019, 06:44:07 PM
Um I think my answer has been answered more than once, don't understand the continuing discussion lol
Your subject is interesting to other people and they want to keep talking about it. This is not something you have control over or can stop.
BGS versus official terminology like large guide sign etc. is a perennial topic of discussion partly because there is a U/non-U (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_and_non-U_English) distinction involved.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 07, 2019, 06:59:20 PM
Quote from: SoCal Kid on May 07, 2019, 06:44:07 PM
Um I think my answer has been answered more than once, don't understand the continuing discussion lol
Your subject is interesting to other people and they want to keep talking about it. This is not something you have control over or can stop.
It's self-sustaining now. (https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/1417daab-fb5e-44b0-9040-c9455c44bf9a)
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on May 07, 2019, 11:32:14 AM
Quote from: lepidopteran on May 07, 2019, 10:42:39 AM
Big Red Sign -- Perhaps the rarest of all, indicating a stop ahead or a route to be avoided. One of the contraflow HOV lanes in Northern VA (Shirley Hwy?) used to have a red overhead sign reading "Do Not Enter" with white lettering posted over the wrong-way entrance ramps (in addition to the multiple lighted crossing-gate arms). Newer installs, however, use an oversized MUTCD Do Not Enter symbol/sign instead. Not sure if the recent reconstructions have replaced the older signs.
Or to indicate prohibitions on restricted routes, e.g. hazardous materials from the Lowry Hill Tunnel on I-94 (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9660909,-93.2693745,3a,45y,276.62h,93.65t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdiktK8Ad5mZATW7pogiZbA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).
Overhead signage at the airport in Cleveland used to be all red. It was replaced before the Streetview era though.
Quote from: Duke87 on May 07, 2019, 09:27:48 PM
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on May 07, 2019, 11:32:14 AM
Quote from: lepidopteran on May 07, 2019, 10:42:39 AM
Big Red Sign -- Perhaps the rarest of all, indicating a stop ahead or a route to be avoided. One of the contraflow HOV lanes in Northern VA (Shirley Hwy?) used to have a red overhead sign reading "Do Not Enter" with white lettering posted over the wrong-way entrance ramps (in addition to the multiple lighted crossing-gate arms). Newer installs, however, use an oversized MUTCD Do Not Enter symbol/sign instead. Not sure if the recent reconstructions have replaced the older signs.
Or to indicate prohibitions on restricted routes, e.g. hazardous materials from the Lowry Hill Tunnel on I-94 (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9660909,-93.2693745,3a,45y,276.62h,93.65t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdiktK8Ad5mZATW7pogiZbA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).
Overhead signage at the airport in Cleveland used to be all red. It was replaced before the Streetview era though.
Yeah, but...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.roadfan.com%2Fairport1.jpg&hash=6202d117434c3d5c87af4b87fb6f4a3507f3b369)
Quote from: kennyshark on May 07, 2019, 01:16:24 PM
In terms of Big Black Signs, when I was a kid (early '70s), as God is my witness, I noticed those were used on in place of Big Green Signs on a stretch of freeway in the Webster Groves/St. Louis (MO) area, which I found strange, since I was used to green. (I guess even then I had a hard-wired accountant's brain.) Could have been I-44.
We had big black signs out in California for a long time and a number of them persisted. I remember "black signs" still up in the Newhall Pass on I-5 around a decade ago for the truck bypass.
There were a few in Alabama when I drove through Birmingham in 2006.
The first black signs I ever saw were from this scene in the Disney short Dad, Can I Borrow the Car? I thought it was a California thing.
https://youtu.be/qsAv5akyi5A?t=1233
Quote from: SoCal Kid on May 07, 2019, 06:44:07 PM
Um I think my answer has been answered more than once, don't understand the continuing discussion lol
Welcome to how I felt after posting this thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4274) eight years ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=535Zy_rf4NU
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on May 08, 2019, 01:13:05 AM
The first black signs I ever saw were from this scene in the Disney short Dad, Can I Borrow the Car? I thought it was a California thing.
https://youtu.be/qsAv5akyi5A?t=1233
Dad, Can I Borrow The Car wasn't a short, but a full length episode of the original
Wonderful World Of Disney TV series. It was available on DVD at one point.
Quote from: lepidopteran on May 07, 2019, 10:42:39 AM
Don't forget the other members of the BGS family.
Big Green Sign -- General guide signs for exits or control cities.
Big Yellow Sign -- Used for warnings, such as a lane drop not associated with a ramp, e.g., "Right Lane Ends 1 Mile"
Big Blue Sign -- Less common, since the services signs tend to be smaller -- though I have seen larger ones with 9 logos. But some larger, overhead blue signs exist for rest areas. (Were these once used in lieu of BGSs in Connecticut?)
Big Orange Sign -- Used in construction zones, particularly those of a large enough scale that "oranging-out" parts of a BGS is not sufficient, and the traffic pattern change is significant. The recent Goethals Bridge rebuild used some of these. Most if not all have black lettering.
Big Brown Sign -- Used for tourist attractions, especially historical sites. Perhaps not coincidentally, highways run by the National Park Service use brown signs instead of green ones, usually with a different Palatino-like font. (The Southern State Parkway on Long Island used to use brown signs, but did they use the conventional highway gothic font?) Also used at some airports.
Big White Sign -- Presents information that doesn't neatly fit into the other categories, like transit info. Color of the lettering may vary depending on application. Also formerly used in places like the New York City expressways, with a dark grey lettering, before BGSs took over.
Big Black Sign -- Rare, might be an alternative to white signs. Sometimes used for upcoming weigh station instructions. (Did South Jersey use these for local roads at one time?)
Big Purple Sign -- Are these a new standard for routes with automatic toll collection? Also, Disney parks seem to use some of these on their access roads.
Big Red Sign -- Perhaps the rarest of all, indicating a stop ahead or a route to be avoided. One of the contraflow HOV lanes in Northern VA (Shirley Hwy?) used to have a red overhead sign reading "Do Not Enter" with white lettering posted over the wrong-way entrance ramps (in addition to the multiple lighted crossing-gate arms). Newer installs, however, use an oversized MUTCD Do Not Enter symbol/sign instead. Not sure if the recent reconstructions have replaced the older signs.
In short, these would be known as BGS, BYS, BBS, BOS, BBrS, BWS, BBlS, BPS and BRS, respectively.
Quote from: 1 on May 08, 2019, 08:39:57 PM
Quote from: Henry on May 08, 2019, 08:38:58 PM
BBlS
BKS, for any of you that use printers.
BSOC, for people who subscribe to political correctness jargon.
Quote from: roadman on May 08, 2019, 02:26:09 PM
Dad, Can I Borrow The Car wasn't a short, but a full length episode of the original Wonderful World Of Disney TV series. It was available on DVD at one point.
Leonard Maltin's
The Disney Films lists it as a theatrical short subject, from 1970.
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on May 08, 2019, 11:36:25 PM
Quote from: roadman on May 08, 2019, 02:26:09 PM
Dad, Can I Borrow The Car wasn't a short, but a full length episode of the original Wonderful World Of Disney TV series. It was available on DVD at one point.
Leonard Maltin's The Disney Films lists it as a theatrical short subject, from 1970.
Never knew that. Thanks for the information.
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 08, 2019, 10:19:49 PM
Quote from: 1 on May 08, 2019, 08:39:57 PM
Quote from: Henry on May 08, 2019, 08:38:58 PM
BBlS
BKS, for any of you that use printers.
BSOC, for people who subscribe to political correctness jargon.
It took me a minute, but... good one!
Quote from: kphoger on May 09, 2019, 01:37:33 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 08, 2019, 10:19:49 PM
Quote from: 1 on May 08, 2019, 08:39:57 PM
Quote from: Henry on May 08, 2019, 08:38:58 PM
BBlS
BKS, for any of you that use printers.
BSOC, for people who subscribe to political correctness jargon.
It took me a minute, but... good one!
Except it can apply to black, brown, red, and yellow signs.
Quote from: skluth on May 09, 2019, 06:33:17 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 09, 2019, 01:37:33 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 08, 2019, 10:19:49 PM
Quote from: 1 on May 08, 2019, 08:39:57 PM
Quote from: Henry on May 08, 2019, 08:38:58 PM
BBlS
BKS, for any of you that use printers.
BSOC, for people who subscribe to political correctness jargon.
It took me a minute, but... good one!
Except it can apply to black, brown, red, and yellow signs.
Always gonna be someone who can't just accept a joke and has to overanalyze. :rolleyes:
Quote from: skluth on May 09, 2019, 06:33:17 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 09, 2019, 01:37:33 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 08, 2019, 10:19:49 PM
Quote from: 1 on May 08, 2019, 08:39:57 PM
Quote from: Henry on May 08, 2019, 08:38:58 PM
BBlS
BKS, for any of you that use printers.
BSOC, for people who subscribe to political correctness jargon.
It took me a minute, but... good one!
Except it can apply to black, brown, red, and yellow signs.
In theory only, not in practice.
Wow, we managed to make a 50+ post thread out of a question that had a clear, simple, 3 word answer.
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 09, 2019, 08:49:24 PM
Quote from: skluth on May 09, 2019, 06:33:17 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 09, 2019, 01:37:33 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 08, 2019, 10:19:49 PM
Quote from: 1 on May 08, 2019, 08:39:57 PM
Quote from: Henry on May 08, 2019, 08:38:58 PM
BBlS
BKS, for any of you that use printers.
BSOC, for people who subscribe to political correctness jargon.
It took me a minute, but... good one!
Except it can apply to black, brown, red, and yellow signs.
Always gonna be someone who can't just accept a joke and has to overanalyze. :rolleyes:
I've dated both Asians and Hispanics, and was in a long relationship with a Native American. You tell them they're not POC.
White is a color.
"People of color." Is that anything like "people of Florida" or "people of Walmart?"
I never got this whole "of color" thing anyway. The term really doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If people can be "of color," does that also mean they can be "of penis" or "of vagina" or "of long/short/curly/straight/blonde/brown/red/(pick your descriptive term) hair?"
Quote from: hbelkins on May 10, 2019, 06:11:25 PM
"People of color." Is that anything like "people of Florida" or "people of Walmart?"
I never got this whole "of color" thing anyway. The term really doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If people can be "of color," does that also mean they can be "of penis" or "of vagina" or "of long/short/curly/straight/blonde/brown/red/(pick your descriptive term) hair?"
No, it means that they are minorities that were typically victims of racist policies. You know, like how segregation was legal in Kentucky up until my mother was a kid and she wondered why people got out of Wheelwright's pool when a black kid dared to get in after the pool was forced to be integrated.
We were on vacation with a friend of ours. When we went golfing, she called her orange golf ball a "ball of color"! Lol. We were cracking up. No idea why she does that because otherwise she doesn't use that term.
Quote from: hbelkins on May 10, 2019, 06:11:25 PM
"People of color." Is that anything like "people of Florida" or "people of Walmart?"
I never got this whole "of color" thing anyway. The term really doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If people can be "of color," does that also mean they can be "of penis" or "of vagina" or "of long/short/curly/straight/blonde/brown/red/(pick your descriptive term) hair?"
I wondered why "colored people" is now considered unacceptable yet "people of color" is apparently OK. Supposedly the difference is that the latter is said to emphasize that they are people, while the former is said to emphasize their race.
Getting back to road signs, my grandmother would have viewed BGSs as equivalent to the "BSOC" type of thing–insofar as "green" in the sense of olive tinge or light green is a skin color sometimes associated with Italians, my grandmother (who was a flaming racist) would equate "green" with "black" because she had a similar contempt for Italians as she had for black people.
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 10, 2019, 06:50:41 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 10, 2019, 06:11:25 PM
"People of color." Is that anything like "people of Florida" or "people of Walmart?"
I never got this whole "of color" thing anyway. The term really doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If people can be "of color," does that also mean they can be "of penis" or "of vagina" or "of long/short/curly/straight/blonde/brown/red/(pick your descriptive term) hair?"
I wondered why "colored people" is now considered unacceptable yet "people of color" is apparently OK. Supposedly the difference is that the latter is said to emphasize that they are people, while the former is said to emphasize their race.
There are entire books on how language changes, making some words acceptable and others unacceptable. George Carlin had several wonderful routines about it. Colored was already becoming offensive when I was a kid in the early 60's when Negro was the preferred term (and the female equivalent Negress, a cringeworthy word under any circumstance). Then it was black and now it's African-American. I understand the reasoning, but it's very frustrating and those making these determinations often tick people off (to put it mildly) by being overly judgmental when you haven't kept up with the latest PC lingo. I try to be somewhat PC, but at the same time the PC police are their own worst enemies by being both insulting and condescending way too often when language use doesn't keep up the PC language police's political speech dogma. I have no problems ignoring them when they freak out over things like Jim Jeffries' Bruce/ Caitlin Jenner comedy routine, quite possibly the funniest routine I've seen about some of the absurdities of PC speech.
This thread is doomed.
Quote from: ClassicHasClass on May 10, 2019, 07:10:02 PM
This thread is doomed.
That's a word that would go with a different BGS: Big Goldenrod Sign.
Quote from: ClassicHasClass on May 10, 2019, 07:10:02 PM
This thread is doomed.
If the green sign is no longer back-lit, is it
dimmed?
PoC seems like an inelegant construction but 1995hoo posted an explanation that I never considered.
What I am really wondering about is why K stands for Bl.
Quote from: jon daly on May 10, 2019, 07:59:00 PM
PoC seems like an inelegant construction but 1995hoo posted an explanation that I never considered.
What I am really wondering about is why K stands for Bl.
Color printers print using four colors: cyan, magenta, yellow, and "key" , which is black.
Quote from: US 89 on May 10, 2019, 08:03:21 PM
Quote from: jon daly on May 10, 2019, 07:59:00 PM
PoC seems like an inelegant construction but 1995hoo posted an explanation that I never considered.
What I am really wondering about is why K stands for Bl.
Color printers print using four colors: cyan, magenta, yellow, and "key" , which is black.
Ah! I knew the other three but forgot about key.
Thanks.
Quote from: US 89 on May 10, 2019, 08:03:21 PM
Quote from: jon daly on May 10, 2019, 07:59:00 PM
PoC seems like an inelegant construction but 1995hoo posted an explanation that I never considered.
What I am really wondering about is why K stands for Bl.
Color printers print using four colors: cyan, magenta, yellow, and "key" , which is black.
Most useful post of the day right here. :)
Quote from: cabiness42 on May 10, 2019, 01:40:59 PM
Wow, we managed to make a 50+ post thread out of a question that had a clear, simple, 3 word answer.
Hey, we made it even further by talking about race! :spin:
In other news, I have nothing more to add about the term 'BGS'.
What would a Big Gray Sign be abbreviated as?
Quote from: 1 on May 10, 2019, 10:37:19 PM
What would a Big Gray Sign be abbreviated as?
BSOC. See
Reply #51 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=24951.msg2415105#msg2415105).
Quote from: kphoger on May 10, 2019, 04:28:21 PM
White is a color.
Mom I learned something new today!
In b4 lock ... :no:
The various abbreviations prompted me to remember that when I was in college, there was one particular bus stop that was popular as a place for black students to congregate (I have no idea why that particular one), to the point where it became known as the "Black Bus Stop" and even the black students started calling it the "BBS." No idea whether that's still the case today.
(For anyone familiar with Charlottesville, it was the UTS bus stop on Central Grounds at the stairs between Monroe Hall and Maury Hall.)
Quote from: Rothman on May 10, 2019, 06:20:15 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 10, 2019, 06:11:25 PM
"People of color." Is that anything like "people of Florida" or "people of Walmart?"
I never got this whole "of color" thing anyway. The term really doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If people can be "of color," does that also mean they can be "of penis" or "of vagina" or "of long/short/curly/straight/blonde/brown/red/(pick your descriptive term) hair?"
No, it means that they are minorities that were typically victims of racist policies. You know, like how segregation was legal in Kentucky up until my mother was a kid and she wondered why people got out of Wheelwright's pool when a black kid dared to get in after the pool was forced to be integrated.
Your reply does nothing to explain the terminology.
Read the first sentence again. The rest of my post was just to provide you a relevant example.
Quote from: jon daly on May 10, 2019, 08:07:41 PM
Quote from: US 89 on May 10, 2019, 08:03:21 PM
Quote from: jon daly on May 10, 2019, 07:59:00 PM
PoC seems like an inelegant construction but 1995hoo posted an explanation that I never considered.
What I am really wondering about is why K stands for Bl.
Color printers print using four colors: cyan, magenta, yellow, and "key" , which is black.
Ah! I knew the other three but forgot about key.
Thanks.
Also, because using "B" could cause someone to confuse it for blue/cyan (cyan ink looks like a much deeper blue before it is printed).
Quote from: hbelkins on May 11, 2019, 01:55:15 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 10, 2019, 06:20:15 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 10, 2019, 06:11:25 PM
"People of color." Is that anything like "people of Florida" or "people of Walmart?"
I never got this whole "of color" thing anyway. The term really doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If people can be "of color," does that also mean they can be "of penis" or "of vagina" or "of long/short/curly/straight/blonde/brown/red/(pick your descriptive term) hair?"
No, it means that they are minorities that were typically victims of racist policies. You know, like how segregation was legal in Kentucky up until my mother was a kid and she wondered why people got out of Wheelwright's pool when a black kid dared to get in after the pool was forced to be integrated.
Your reply does nothing to explain the terminology.
A term was needed to mean "people other than Caucasians" to discuss that group in general terms, and "people of color" is the term that became popular.
It's best not to get hung up on why particular English phrases or words are what they are, because you'll just drive yourself mad. I remember when I thought the word "blog" was really dumb-sounding and inelegant, but despite my objections, people kept saying "blog", and now I operate one and call it a blog because that is the way English works. I may as well go down to the Canadian River and shout at it to change its course for all the good it would do.
The Wikipedia article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person_of_color) has a fair etymological discussion.
I heard that blog was short for weblog. However, I don't think I hard the term "weblog" that often.
My main online passion was baseball and there used to be all sorts of baseball blogs, but I think most of them died off after bigger media companies got involved.
Quote from: jon daly on May 11, 2019, 03:59:28 PM
I heard that blog was short for weblog. However, I don't think I hard the term "weblog" that often.
I think you would be correct. And "vlog" is short for "video log" or "video blog."
In other terminology, is 'Unisign' a roadgeek term, or is that a universal transportation term?
^^ WisDOT calls unisigns J-Assembly signs as they use a "J" prefix to the sign identification.
I certainly haven't seen unisign with the usual roadgeek meaning outside roadgeek contexts (it is apparently also the trading name of a sign company in China). There is also little uniformity among the state DOTs that use unisigns in how they are made.
WisDOT unisigns are basically the MUTCD-standard designs for independent-mount route markers and tabs laid on top of a black substrate that forms a rectangle that is precisely trimmed to the outer edges of the overall assembly. Since the gaps between the various elements are controlled, this creates a single panel with a neat, uniform appearance that can withstand a rigorous winter climate without stiffeners or back bracing. (MnDOT, which has a similar winter climate but does not use unisigns, relies on both for "sign salad" confected out of single-sheet signs, and is also more likely to use guide signs with guide-sign shields for applications that attract "sign salad" elsewhere. Wyoming DOT uses stiffeners on marker and tab signs unless the substrate is plywood.) When isolated examples of unisigns are found in other states (e.g., Virginia), they tend to represent local variations of the basic WisDOT method.
On the other hand, WSDOT unisigns are basically "two in one" versions of common MUTCD marker/tab combinations where modified designs of marker and tab are unified on a single blank (no special stiffening or bracing) with a shared border. Each such unisign design has its own WSDOT-specific MUTCD-like sign code in the WSDOT Sign Fabrication Manual.
Ohio DOT's approach of unifying route marker, arrow(s), and cardinal direction word(s) on a single sheet blank--oblong horizontally, often mounted as a mast arm sign--represents a third way that doesn't copy MUTCD tabs. As with WSDOT, these signs have their own MUTCD-like codes in the Ohio DOT Sign Design Manual.
Quote from: J N Winkler on May 12, 2019, 11:54:18 AM
On the other hand, WSDOT unisigns are basically "two in one" versions of common MUTCD marker/tab combinations where modified designs of marker and tab are unified on a single blank (no special stiffening or bracing) with a shared border. Each such unisign design has its own WSDOT-specific MUTCD-like sign code in the WSDOT Sign Fabrication Manual.
I think I mentioned this already, but there was a lengthy period where the reassurance markers, manufactured by WSDOT, were against a green background.