Building off the Interstate discussion, I've decided to take it a step further. Note that this is only in the 48 contiguous states.
What is the largest city in the US where you must, at some point or another, take 2-lane highways to get out of? Also, what is the largest city pair without even a 4-lane highway (of any kind) connecting them? Also expanding, largest city without a freeway connection to the main network? Isolated freeways don't count as part of the network.
Lynchburg is the largest city in Virginia without freeway connection to the rest of the system.
Jacksonville is the largest for North Carolina.
They both have 4-lane highway access though.
In a few other states, the largest - off the top of my head - at least without a connection to the national freeway network:
Alabama - Dothan
Florida - Panama City (Key West next largest, must take a 2 lane highway out)
Georgia - Albany
Louisiana - Houma
Mississippi - Greenville
South Carolina - Myrtle Beach
Tennessee - all decent sized cities (i.e. over 25,000) have connections, not sure then?
In the Southeast at least, I think Key West is the largest that requires a 2-lane highway to connect out. On the Southeast mainland, I can't think of any cities over 25,000 without even a single access out that is all 4 lanes at least.
In general, I am thinking of places that are either over 25,000, or that are under 25,000 that serve as a regional center.
Quote from: RoadMaster09 on July 04, 2019, 11:18:13 PM
In general, I am thinking of places that are either over 25,000, or that are under 25,000 that serve as a regional center.
Lynchburg, VA has a population of 76,500, and Jacksonville, NC has a population of 72,500. Jacksonville, NC is also home to Camp Lejeune, a major military training facility.
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 04, 2019, 11:29:50 PM
Quote from: RoadMaster09 on July 04, 2019, 11:18:13 PM
In general, I am thinking of places that are either over 25,000, or that are under 25,000 that serve as a regional center.
Lynchburg, VA has a population of 76,500, and Jacksonville, NC has a population of 72,500. Jacksonville, NC is also home to Camp Lejeune, a major military training facility.
Indeed, those need to be connected badly. Both are key cities to their regions.
I believe Pennsylvania's largest is Lebanon, with a population of about 25,000, located in a weird place relative to the major Interstates. The Turnpike was put too far to the south to directly serve it and I-81 and I-78 were routed along US 22, which was built to bypass everything on what's now US 422 and 222 between Harrisburg and Allentown, including Lebanon. Every larger town or city is located on a freeway or at least has one four-lane connection.
Quote from: RoadMaster09 on July 04, 2019, 11:39:16 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 04, 2019, 11:29:50 PM
Quote from: RoadMaster09 on July 04, 2019, 11:18:13 PM
In general, I am thinking of places that are either over 25,000, or that are under 25,000 that serve as a regional center.
Lynchburg, VA has a population of 76,500, and Jacksonville, NC has a population of 72,500. Jacksonville, NC is also home to Camp Lejeune, a major military training facility.
Indeed, those need to be connected badly. Both are key cities to their regions.
Lynchburg, VA would likely come from a US-29 upgrade as US-29 is a major north-south route through the area. Could be an extension of I-785 which is slated to terminate at Danville, VA about 70 miles south of Lynchburg. Would require upgrading the existing freeway grade bypasses to interstate standards, and building new "bypass connectors".
As for Jacksonville, NC, a 16-mile stretch of 2-lane roadway through three towns north of there has projects scheduled to be completed at the end of the year that would bypass the towns with 70 mph freeway, and 4-lane the remainder. That could easily be upgraded to interstate standards down to Jacksonville, NC, and that connects to Future I-42, so could be called I-x42.
A few others in the Southeast I can think of:
Alabama - Florence
Arkansas - Hot Springs
Georgia - Athens, Rome
Louisiana - New Iberia
Mississippi - Columbus
In Texas, I can think of a bunch: Brownsville-Harlingen-McAllen (probably the largest metro area not in the freeway network), College Station, Del Rio (all 2 lanes!), Lufkin, Nacogdoches, San Angelo, Victoria, and probably others. I know I-69 once completed (as a freeway to those locations continuously in at least one direction) will remove the Rio Grande Valley, Lufkin, Nacogdoches and Victoria from that list though..
The issue here is there are a lot of suburbs which technically don't have a freeway enter their limits, but for all intents and purposes are served by freeways (or four-lane roads) in neighboring cities.
For Utah specifically, the largest urban center without any freeway connections is Logan (pop. 51k, metro 130k), though it is connected to freeways by the four-lane US 91. If suburbs count, we go all the way up to West Jordan, with a population over 112k; although Bangerter Highway has been upgraded to freeway standard through almost all of West Jordan, it does not (yet) connect to any other freeways.
As for four-lane roads: the largest incorporated place in the state that isn't connected to a single four-lane road is Alpine (10k population), but that's just another suburb in the Utah County sprawl. When suburbs are excluded, the winner in that category becomes Vernal (also about 10k, micropolitan area 35k).
Quote from: US 89 on July 05, 2019, 01:24:19 AM
The issue here is there are a lot of suburbs which technically don't have a freeway enter their limits, but for all intents and purposes are served by freeways (or four-lane roads) in neighboring cities.
For Utah specifically, the largest urban center without any freeway connections is Logan (pop. 51k), though it is connected to freeways by the four-lane US 91. If suburbs count, we go all the way up to West Jordan, with a population over 112k; although Bangerter Highway has been upgraded to freeway standard through almost all of West Jordan, it does not (yet) connect to any other freeways.
As for four-lane roads: the largest incorporated place in the state that isn't connected to a single four-lane road is Alpine (10k population), but that's just another suburb in the Utah County sprawl. When suburbs are excluded, the winner in that category becomes Vernal (also about 10k).
I'm not really counting suburbs inside the sprawl, unless the entire metropolitan area is not served. Also I consider it served if the freeway doesn't enter city limits but enters the urban area or is effectively serviced at the fringes.
With the exception of a sliver of I-664 in the northeast part of Suffolk, no freeways really connect to Suffolk, VA.
And for a long-distance trip, it's unlikely a traveler would divert over to I-64 to go north or west unless of course being in that northeast sliver. They would use US-58 or US-460 for any long distance trips in any direction.
Suffolk, VA has population 90,000, and its core has no connecting freeways.
Of course, the only gap in preventing this is the limited-access 6-lane high speed expressway between I-64 and the Suffolk Bypass freeway, which has a few at-grade intersections. This is planned to eventually be upgraded to interstate standards which would close this gap, but nonetheless, travel between the cities isn't usually an issue. The expressway acts as a "freeway" being a 6-lane 60 mph limited-access expressway with heavy amounts of traffic.
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=14911
For Wisconsin, it might be Whitewater. It was Marshfield before US-10 was widened not long ago.
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 05, 2019, 02:26:11 AM
Suffolk, VA has population 90,000, and its core has no connecting freeways.
Of course, the only gap in preventing this is the limited-access 6-lane high speed expressway between I-64 and the Suffolk Bypass freeway, which has a few at-grade intersections. This is planned to eventually be upgraded to interstate standards which would close this gap, but nonetheless, travel between the cities isn't usually an issue. The expressway acts as a "freeway" being a 6-lane 60 mph limited-access expressway with heavy amounts of traffic.
... and with no traffic signals.
Need to keep in mind that Suffolk is an entire 429 square mile county that was incorporated as a city.
Present day Suffolk was formed in 1974 after consolidating with Nansemond County and the towns of Holland and Whaleyville.
The original city of Suffolk was just under 10,000 population before the consolidation, and the city limits would fit entirely within the current Suffolk Bypass.
Michigan: Traverse City or Marquette, and no long range plans include a four lane connection to either (even though TC is only ~25 miles from the northern end of the US-131 freeway; Grand Traverse County (the county in which Traverse City is in) is on pace to hit 100k population by 2030 and most of the infrastructure is built for a county of maybe 50k)
Quote from: Beltway on July 05, 2019, 09:58:42 AM
... and with no traffic signals.
<snip history lesson>
99% of the City of Suffolk present day is not connected to the state's freeway system. It doesn't fully count because of the sliver of I-664, so Lynchburg is still the biggest. But if that sliver of I-664 did not exist, it would not be connected.
I'm not complaining about the connection - it's an easy, 6-lane 60 mph expressway that's limited-access with a couple of at-grade intersections. But it's still technically not linked by a freeway until and if ever the US-58 / US-460 / US-13 Connector is upgraded to a freeway.
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 05, 2019, 01:47:57 PM
Quote from: Beltway on July 05, 2019, 09:58:42 AM
... and with no traffic signals.
<snip history lesson>
99% of the City of Suffolk present day is not connected to the state's freeway system. It doesn't fully count because of the sliver of I-664, so Lynchburg is still the biggest. But if that sliver of I-664 did not exist, it would not be connected.
How much in the highly developed area within 3 miles of I-664? 15 or 20 thousand people?
City of Suffolk present day is still an entire county that was incorporated into a city.
Quote from: Beltway on July 05, 2019, 01:51:39 PM
How much in the highly developed area within 3 miles of I-664? 15 or 20 thousand people?
City of Suffolk present day is still an entire county that was incorporated into a city.
I'd estimate closer to about 10,000, though I don't have an exact number. It's just neighborhoods in the Harbor View area, and some more spread out development on the US-17 corridor.
A lot of growth has also been happening in "real" Suffolk, especially off of the north side of the US-58 Bypass. A lot of new developments being built up that way, along with new schools, a new hospital was built there about a decade ago.
It's not just North Suffolk.
I'd be curious to see the separate population counts between the "real" Suffolk area, North Suffolk, and the rural areas.
OK, we have definitely done this before. I actually started a variant myself last year:
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=23291
Quote from: webny99 on July 05, 2019, 02:57:27 PM
OK, we have definitely done this before. I actually started a variant myself last year:
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=23291
Freeway connection has not been done IIRC. Most of these cities have four-lane access, but not freeway access to the rest of the network.
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 05, 2019, 03:02:12 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 05, 2019, 02:57:27 PM
OK, we have definitely done this before. I actually started a variant myself last year:
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=23291
Freeway connection has not been done IIRC. Most of these cities have four-lane access, but not freeway access to the rest of the network.
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=11189
Quote from: 1 on July 05, 2019, 03:05:01 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 05, 2019, 03:02:12 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 05, 2019, 02:57:27 PM
OK, we have definitely done this before. I actually started a variant myself last year:
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=23291
Freeway connection has not been done IIRC. Most of these cities have four-lane access, but not freeway access to the rest of the network.
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=11189
Is that having no freeway at all, or no freeway
connection to the rest of the system?
Because most of these cities have local freeways but when you leave the city / metro area, you have to take arterial roads to the interstate.
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 05, 2019, 03:02:12 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 05, 2019, 02:57:27 PM
OK, we have definitely done this before. I actually started a variant myself last year:
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=23291
Freeway connection has not been done IIRC. Most of these cities have four-lane access, but not freeway access to the rest of the network.
From the OP, a variant of the question I asked in the thread linked:
Quote from: RoadMaster09 on July 04, 2019, 10:39:25 PM
What is the largest city in the US where you must, at some point or another, take 2-lane highways to get out of?
^
QuoteAlso expanding, largest city without a freeway connection to the main network? Isolated freeways don't count as part of the network.
The point is that both questions have threads devoted to them. Whether this one gets merged is up to the mods, but it has been sufficiently stated that there are threads where all of the above can be discussed.
Quote from: webny99 on July 05, 2019, 03:20:39 PM
The point is that both questions have threads devoted to them. Whether this one gets merged is up to the mods, but it has been sufficiently stated that there are threads where all of the above can be discussed.
Yet to see a thread that talks about cities without freeway links to the network.
The threads so far existing are cities without freeways at all, and cities without four-lane.
Brownsville, TX
I believe that Durango (population approximately 19k, micropolitan statistical area population over 50k) would be the largest city in Colorado not served by either a freeway or four-lane connection to the main network.
Quote from: 1 on July 05, 2019, 03:45:10 PM
Brownsville, TX
What about US-77 (soon to be I-69E) or US-83 (soon to be I-2)?
Quote from: thspfc on July 05, 2019, 06:29:33 PM
Quote from: 1 on July 05, 2019, 03:45:10 PM
Brownsville, TX
What about US-77 (soon to be I-69E) or US-83 (soon to be I-2)?
Doesn't connect with the rest of the system yet.
Isolated freeways don't count. If it drops to an arterial then that is not a freeway connection. It builds on the Interstate question.
Quote from: ftballfan on July 05, 2019, 10:13:30 AM
Michigan: Traverse City or Marquette, and no long range plans include a four lane connection to either (even though TC is only ~25 miles from the northern end of the US-131 freeway; Grand Traverse County (the county in which Traverse City is in) is on pace to hit 100k population by 2030 and most of the infrastructure is built for a county of maybe 50k)
Marquette is larger than Traverse City. (Interestingly enough, Garfield Twp just to the south of TC is bigger than TC.)
Both of them have 4-lanes, but the roads turn into 2 lane highways as you leave town.
The question is what to consider a "4-lane connection" means in the context of this thread. US 31 is 4-lane as it goes from TC to Garfield Twp. Does that eliminate them from consideration, as they both have a 4-lane "connection" to somewhere outside their specific borders?
As for Marquette, US-41/M-28 is 4 lane from Marquette out through the township and into Negaunee - I would submit that qualifies as a "connection" to somewhere and so Marquette is DQ'd.
What about Adrian? It has a higher population than TC too - and while the 4-lane US-223 exits the city to the township, it doesn't "connect" to anything beyond that.
Quote from: GaryV on July 05, 2019, 09:24:29 PM
Quote from: ftballfan on July 05, 2019, 10:13:30 AM
Michigan: Traverse City or Marquette, and no long range plans include a four lane connection to either (even though TC is only ~25 miles from the northern end of the US-131 freeway; Grand Traverse County (the county in which Traverse City is in) is on pace to hit 100k population by 2030 and most of the infrastructure is built for a county of maybe 50k)
Marquette is larger than Traverse City. (Interestingly enough, Garfield Twp just to the south of TC is bigger than TC.)
Both of them have 4-lanes, but the roads turn into 2 lane highways as you leave town.
The question is what to consider a "4-lane connection" means in the context of this thread. US 31 is 4-lane as it goes from TC to Garfield Twp. Does that eliminate them from consideration, as they both have a 4-lane "connection" to somewhere outside their specific borders?
As for Marquette, US-41/M-28 is 4 lane from Marquette out through the township and into Negaunee - I would submit that qualifies as a "connection" to somewhere and so Marquette is DQ'd.
What about Adrian? It has a higher population than TC too - and while the 4-lane US-223 exits the city to the township, it doesn't "connect" to anything beyond that.
4-lane connection is referring to a 4-lane connection to the state's freeway system. In order for a freeway to be apart of the state's system, it has to link directly into an interstate highway - also interstate highways themselves are apart of the system.
A standalone or isolated freeway (for instance a freeway within an area, but then it drops off onto a non-limited-access roadway) is not apart of the system as it does not connect into the interstate highway system directly.
For the Pacific Coast states, it looks like there are some significant metro areas (over 100K @) within each of them that do require travel on a 2-lane road at some point to reach the "outside world":
CA: Eureka (Humboldt County); metro area (2017) approximately 110K population. Both US 101 in either direction and CA 299 (and CA 36 as well) to the east have unavoidable 2-lane sections.
OR: Bend (Deschutes County); metro area (again, 2017) approximately 175K. No avoiding 2-lane sections to get out of town. Metro area includes Redmond & Prineville.
WA: Wenatchee (Chelan County); metro area -- 2017 -- approximately 115K. Same thing; 2-lane segments in all directions.
Ithaca is noteworthy in NY as being the only metro area large enough to have an MPO that requires using two-lane roads to head anywhere else. Population 102k. Poughkeepsie is close (population 424k), but has US 9 as a multi-lane route to the south.
Quote from: vdeane on July 10, 2019, 12:46:23 PM
Ithaca is noteworthy in NY as being the only metro area large enough to have an MPO that requires using two-lane roads to head anywhere else. Population 102k.
I wonder what effect that is having on the growth of the area. It adds to the charm of the region, but the lack of connectivity could also hamper growth.
They're happy enough without growth, especially as tourists descend en masse in the region every summer.
Quote from: RoadMaster09 on July 05, 2019, 12:23:39 AM
A few others in the Southeast I can think of:
Alabama - Florence
Arkansas - Hot Springs
Georgia - Athens, Rome
Louisiana - New Iberia
Mississippi - Columbus
In Texas, I can think of a bunch: Brownsville-Harlingen-McAllen (probably the largest metro area not in the freeway network), College Station, Del Rio (all 2 lanes!), Lufkin, Nacogdoches, San Angelo, Victoria, and probably others. I know I-69 once completed (as a freeway to those locations continuously in at least one direction) will remove the Rio Grande Valley, Lufkin, Nacogdoches and Victoria from that list though..
Hot Springs is off the list now that ARDOT has expanded US 70 to 5-lane all the way to I-30. According to the most recent official state map it appears that El Dorado now wears the dubious belt.
ADD: Hot Springs shouldn't have been listed in the first place because US 270 has been 4-lane to I-30 at Malvern.
Quote from: Road Hog on July 11, 2019, 02:41:50 AM
Quote from: RoadMaster09 on July 05, 2019, 12:23:39 AM
A few others in the Southeast I can think of:
Alabama - Florence
Arkansas - Hot Springs
Georgia - Athens, Rome
Louisiana - New Iberia
Mississippi - Columbus
In Texas, I can think of a bunch: Brownsville-Harlingen-McAllen (probably the largest metro area not in the freeway network), College Station, Del Rio (all 2 lanes!), Lufkin, Nacogdoches, San Angelo, Victoria, and probably others. I know I-69 once completed (as a freeway to those locations continuously in at least one direction) will remove the Rio Grande Valley, Lufkin, Nacogdoches and Victoria from that list though..
Hot Springs is off the list now that ARDOT has expanded US 70 to 5-lane all the way to I-30. According to the most recent official state map it appears that El Dorado now wears the dubious belt.
ADD: Hot Springs shouldn't have been listed in the first place because US 270 has been 4-lane to I-30 at Malvern.
That list was referring to cities without a -freeway- connection. Most or all of them have 4-lane connection.
US-270 or US-70 is not a -freeway- to I-30, so it does not have a -freeway- connection.
Quote from: Rothman on July 10, 2019, 02:16:32 PM
They're happy enough without growth, especially as tourists descend en masse in the region every summer.
I would consider that growth... growth of the tourism industry.
I would agree on the Bend, OR area.
Mike
For Indiana, I'm going with Jasper as the largest city with no 4 lane highways connecting it with the outside world, although there is a plan, and it's probably listed in either a new thread or Indiana Notes (Mid-States Corridor Project).
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 05, 2019, 10:01:47 PM
Quote from: GaryV on July 05, 2019, 09:24:29 PM
Quote from: ftballfan on July 05, 2019, 10:13:30 AM
Michigan: Traverse City or Marquette, and no long range plans include a four lane connection to either (even though TC is only ~25 miles from the northern end of the US-131 freeway; Grand Traverse County (the county in which Traverse City is in) is on pace to hit 100k population by 2030 and most of the infrastructure is built for a county of maybe 50k)
Marquette is larger than Traverse City. (Interestingly enough, Garfield Twp just to the south of TC is bigger than TC.)
Both of them have 4-lanes, but the roads turn into 2 lane highways as you leave town.
The question is what to consider a "4-lane connection" means in the context of this thread. US 31 is 4-lane as it goes from TC to Garfield Twp. Does that eliminate them from consideration, as they both have a 4-lane "connection" to somewhere outside their specific borders?
As for Marquette, US-41/M-28 is 4 lane from Marquette out through the township and into Negaunee - I would submit that qualifies as a "connection" to somewhere and so Marquette is DQ'd.
What about Adrian? It has a higher population than TC too - and while the 4-lane US-223 exits the city to the township, it doesn't "connect" to anything beyond that.
4-lane connection is referring to a 4-lane connection to the state's freeway system. In order for a freeway to be apart of the state's system, it has to link directly into an interstate highway - also interstate highways themselves are apart of the system.
A standalone or isolated freeway (for instance a freeway within an area, but then it drops off onto a non-limited-access roadway) is not apart of the system as it does not connect into the interstate highway system directly.
To clarify things a bit, in Michigan I'm looking at county populations instead of that of the cities:
Delta County (Escanaba) - 35,965
Marquette County (Marquette) - 66,502
Grand Traverse County (Traverse City) - 91,807 (125,438 with Benzie & Leelanau counties included)
Lenawee County (Adrian) - 98,623
Take anywhere in the U.P. off the table in the "largest cities" race. Adrian (20,689) beats Marquette (20,629) in that contest. When you factor in county populations, Lenawee trumps Marquette before even factoring in population density.
Adrian beats Traverse City in population (20,689 to 15,515), but the county populations better defines the traffic demands of the area. That doesn't take summer tourism into account - Grand Traverse County's summer population is considerably higher during the summer than Lenawee County's (though Lenawee also has a fair number of summer-only residents).
If you're looking at an area in Michigan that desperately needs 4-lane highway access, Traverse City is it. Ideally, it would have connections to the south to US-131 and east to I-75 near Grayling. The 2-lanes into and out of the area are highly overworked.
Lenawee County gets an honorable mention - a freeway connecting Jackson to Toledo would take a lot of pressure off US-23 between Brighton and Toledo, and thus have statewide benefit. 4-lane highways to Traverse City would basically serve just that area.
Quote from: sparker on July 10, 2019, 05:49:26 AM
For the Pacific Coast states, it looks like there are some significant metro areas (over 100K @) within each of them that do require travel on a 2-lane road at some point to reach the "outside world":
CA: Eureka (Humboldt County); metro area (2017) approximately 110K population. Both US 101 in either direction and CA 299 (and CA 36 as well) to the east have unavoidable 2-lane sections.
OR: Bend (Deschutes County); metro area (again, 2017) approximately 175K. No avoiding 2-lane sections to get out of town. Metro area includes Redmond & Prineville.
WA: Wenatchee (Chelan County); metro area -- 2017 -- approximately 115K. Same thing; 2-lane segments in all directions.
A bit off topic - but I find the city of Wenatchee (35K population) interesting in that there are literally only 2 roads out of town that connect Wenatchee to the rest of America. 285 across the Wenatchee River or 285 across the Columbia River. Any other road out of town inevitably dead ends in the mountains.
That's a fairly large population in a wildfire-prone area with limited egress.
I know there is a plan for a 3rd way out of town - on the north end across the Wenatchee River.
Oak Harbor, WA - Connected to the outside world by 2-lane roads connecting to two ferry routes and an 80-year old bridge (which needs a bypass for a majority of the traffic). Through downtown the highway is 4-lane, but reduces to 2 at the city limits. Home of NAS Whidbey Island. City population around 25,000, much more in the surrounding community.
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 11, 2019, 03:44:18 AM
Quote from: Road Hog on July 11, 2019, 02:41:50 AM
Quote from: RoadMaster09 on July 05, 2019, 12:23:39 AM
A few others in the Southeast I can think of:
Alabama - Florence
Arkansas - Hot Springs
Georgia - Athens, Rome
Louisiana - New Iberia
Mississippi - Columbus
In Texas, I can think of a bunch: Brownsville-Harlingen-McAllen (probably the largest metro area not in the freeway network), College Station, Del Rio (all 2 lanes!), Lufkin, Nacogdoches, San Angelo, Victoria, and probably others. I know I-69 once completed (as a freeway to those locations continuously in at least one direction) will remove the Rio Grande Valley, Lufkin, Nacogdoches and Victoria from that list though..
Hot Springs is off the list now that ARDOT has expanded US 70 to 5-lane all the way to I-30. According to the most recent official state map it appears that El Dorado now wears the dubious belt.
ADD: Hot Springs shouldn't have been listed in the first place because US 270 has been 4-lane to I-30 at Malvern.
That list was referring to cities without a -freeway- connection. Most or all of them have 4-lane connection.
US-270 or US-70 is not a -freeway- to I-30, so it does not have a -freeway- connection.
Thread title is 4-lane/freeway.
Quote from: Road Hog on July 13, 2019, 06:08:28 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 11, 2019, 03:44:18 AM
Quote from: Road Hog on July 11, 2019, 02:41:50 AM
Quote from: RoadMaster09 on July 05, 2019, 12:23:39 AM
A few others in the Southeast I can think of:
Alabama - Florence
Arkansas - Hot Springs
Georgia - Athens, Rome
Louisiana - New Iberia
Mississippi - Columbus
In Texas, I can think of a bunch: Brownsville-Harlingen-McAllen (probably the largest metro area not in the freeway network), College Station, Del Rio (all 2 lanes!), Lufkin, Nacogdoches, San Angelo, Victoria, and probably others. I know I-69 once completed (as a freeway to those locations continuously in at least one direction) will remove the Rio Grande Valley, Lufkin, Nacogdoches and Victoria from that list though..
Hot Springs is off the list now that ARDOT has expanded US 70 to 5-lane all the way to I-30. According to the most recent official state map it appears that El Dorado now wears the dubious belt.
ADD: Hot Springs shouldn't have been listed in the first place because US 270 has been 4-lane to I-30 at Malvern.
That list was referring to cities without a -freeway- connection. Most or all of them have 4-lane connection.
US-270 or US-70 is not a -freeway- to I-30, so it does not have a -freeway- connection.
Thread title is 4-lane/freeway.
But you were saying a lot of his cities were wrong in the context of 4-lane connection. The thread is either or, but in his particular post, he was specifically referring to freeway connections, which none of those have.
Quote from: sparker on July 10, 2019, 05:49:26 AM
For the Pacific Coast states, it looks like there are some significant metro areas (over 100K @) within each of them that do require travel on a 2-lane road at some point to reach the "outside world":
CA: Eureka (Humboldt County); metro area (2017) approximately 110K population. Both US 101 in either direction and CA 299 (and CA 36 as well) to the east have unavoidable 2-lane sections.
OR: Bend (Deschutes County); metro area (again, 2017) approximately 175K. No avoiding 2-lane sections to get out of town. Metro area includes Redmond & Prineville.
WA: Wenatchee (Chelan County); metro area -- 2017 -- approximately 115K. Same thing; 2-lane segments in all directions.
IMO, those need to be fixed. A metro area of 100,000 ideally should have an Interstate, but at a minimum a high quality 4-lane.
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 13, 2019, 06:16:49 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on July 13, 2019, 06:08:28 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 11, 2019, 03:44:18 AM
Quote from: Road Hog on July 11, 2019, 02:41:50 AM
Quote from: RoadMaster09 on July 05, 2019, 12:23:39 AM
A few others in the Southeast I can think of:
Alabama - Florence
Arkansas - Hot Springs
Georgia - Athens, Rome
Louisiana - New Iberia
Mississippi - Columbus
In Texas, I can think of a bunch: Brownsville-Harlingen-McAllen (probably the largest metro area not in the freeway network), College Station, Del Rio (all 2 lanes!), Lufkin, Nacogdoches, San Angelo, Victoria, and probably others. I know I-69 once completed (as a freeway to those locations continuously in at least one direction) will remove the Rio Grande Valley, Lufkin, Nacogdoches and Victoria from that list though..
Hot Springs is off the list now that ARDOT has expanded US 70 to 5-lane all the way to I-30. According to the most recent official state map it appears that El Dorado now wears the dubious belt.
ADD: Hot Springs shouldn't have been listed in the first place because US 270 has been 4-lane to I-30 at Malvern.
That list was referring to cities without a -freeway- connection. Most or all of them have 4-lane connection.
US-270 or US-70 is not a -freeway- to I-30, so it does not have a -freeway- connection.
Thread title is 4-lane/freeway.
But you were saying a lot of his cities were wrong in the context of 4-lane connection. The thread is either or, but in his particular post, he was specifically referring to freeway connections, which none of those have.
Um, the thread title is the thread title, which I was referring to. But nice try.
^
"Largest Cities without a 4-lane/freeway connection"
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 14, 2019, 10:50:40 PM
^
"Largest Cities without a 4-lane/freeway connection"
I should have asked it better, but they meant to be two separate questions. Revised to make it clearer.
Very interesting question. I did a systematic search of all metro areas in the lower 48 with >100,000 population. There are just a handful of these that don't have any sort of four-lane connection, and the top three came up in the discussion already (I also tried to determine the distance from the city center of these to the nearest four-lane highway):
Chico, CA -- 230,000 -- 20 mi to I-5 at Orland
Bend, OR -- 190,000 -- 115 mi to I-5 at Halsey
Wenatchee, WA -- 110,000 -- 41 mi to I-90 at George
Ithaca, NY -- 105,000 -- 25 mi to I-81 at Cortland
There are also about 20 metro areas that do have a four-lane connection, but not in the form of a limited-access highway. These are
Myrtle Beach, SC (connected to Charleston & Florence)
Salisbury, MD (connected to Annapolis & Dover)
Santa Cruz, CA (connected to San Jose)
Lynchburg, VA (connected to Charlottesville & Roanoke)
Prescott, AZ (connected to I-17)
Houma, LA (connected to Lafayette & I-310)
Panama City, FL (connected to Pensacola & I-10)
Jacksonville, NC (connected to Wilmington & I-40)
Yuba City, CA (connected to Sacramento)
Albany, GA (connected to I-10, I-75, & I-185)
Jefferson City, MO (connected to I-70)
Dothan, AL (connected to I-10)
Homosassa Springs, FL (connected to I-75)
Florence, AL (connected to I-65 & I-840)
Logan, UT (connected to I-15)
New Bern, NC (connected to I-795)
Farmington, NM (connected to Albuquerque)
San Angelo, TX (connected to I-20)
California, MD (connected to Washington)
Sebring, FL (connected to Miami & Orlando)
Gettysburg, PA (connected to Harrisburg & Frederick)
Mankato, MN (connected to I-35)
The second list has a lot more eastern cities than I was expecting. There's enough of these that some geographic patterns do start to emerge, though.
Minor correction to Jefferson City, MO - it has several 4-lane connections (depends on what you count). There is US 63 at the very least, but depending on what you'd count, US 50 and US 54.
^ On that note, Mankato, MN also has 4-lane connections to Sioux City, IA and I-90 (via US 169/MN 60) and the Twin Cities (via US 169)...not just a connection to I-35.
And technically, Rochester, MN proper does not have a freeway connection either...the city limits have yet to cross I-90 and neither the US 52 nor the US 63 interchanges with I-90 are freeway-to-freeway.
Of you count 4 lane and it freeway you have to go down to 10000 in Illinois. One Canton is basically going to be connected in this plan leaving only Kewanee and Streator which are both near freeways and have 4 lanes through town.
The suburban areas of McHenry and Kendall counties will get or just got multi lane connections.
You have to go really low in Iowa. Carroll on US 30 is barely over 10000.
Lots of nuances here.
Cochise County, Arizona is over 6,200 square miles. The Sierra Vista- Douglas Metropolitan Statistical Area is defined as Cochise County. The population density is about 21 persons per square mile, and the vast majority of the land area in the county is decidedly rural.
There are over 90 miles of Interstate 10 in Cochise County, but it doesn't get within 25 miles of Sierra Vista, and I can't imagine that it gets within 50 miles of Douglas.
Sierra Vista is connected to Interstate 10 by a four lane (mostly) divided highway, but it is not limited access, and has a handful of stoplights.
So, based on the above, is Sierra Vista without a freeway connection or not?
For Kentucky I would say Pikeville.
SM-G950U
Quote from: ibthebigd on November 17, 2019, 07:10:22 PM
For Kentucky I would say Pikeville.
SM-G950U
How is 23/460 not a four-lane? Heck, my relatives in Prestonsburg refer to 23/460 as "The Four Lane." :D