On a recent road trip from Harrisburg PA to Youngstown OH we took the Pennsylvania turnpike and it cost $31 in tolls. Cutting up to I-80 from Harrisburg would have avoided the tolls and according to Google Maps would have only been 4 minutes slower. Spending $31 for a 4 minute shorter trip isn't worth it to me.
Later on in the trip going from Youngstown OH to Detroit we took the Ohio turnpike and paid roughly $11 in tolls. But avoiding those tolls would have tacked on an extra 31 minutes to the drive (plus the non-toll route takes you along a lot of 2-lane roads). Spending $11 for a 31 minute shorter trip is worth it to me.
Of course in google maps it gives you the option to avoid toll roads, but you can't pick and choose which tolls to avoid. I guess are there any toll roads you don't mind driving and are there any toll roads you avoid like the plague because the cost to ride and/or the travel reduction time isn't worth it?
Toledo to Cleveland or vice versa taking OH-2 bypasses the toll road. There are a few other alternate routes around that too. OH-2 becomes a freeway at Port Clinton going towards Cleveland.
Often times I will avoid the Chicago Skyway and take the Borman to the Bishop Ford to the Dan Ryan. Which adds on 5 miles and the Skyway would actually be an advantage due to the traffic on the three freeways I named earlier. It's $9 just to cross the bridge on the Skyway.
When I go down to Delaware from NJ, many of my trips land me in Wilmington. Delaware Ave (DE 52) was my break-even point. If I was on that road or south, I'll take the Delaware Memorial Bridge and pay the $4 toll. If I was going to points north of that, I'd take the Commodore Barry Bridge and pay the $5 toll.
When I head to Ohio from NJ, I could take the PA Turnpike from the Schuylkill Expressway and points West, or take I-80 via the Northeast Extension. Because of the cost of tolls either way, it's more of a change-of-scenery type thing...I'd take one route going out and the other coming back. Weather plays a factor too. I did take the route Trade mentioned once. It wasn't a bad route, and with the cost of tolls in PA it's something to consider more often.
On a trip to Florida, I recently took DE 1 to US 301 to US 50 to I-95/495 South. On US 301 I paid the $4 toll, rather than exiting 301 at the final exit before the $4 toll point. It was my first time doing it so I didn't mind paying it. But this route also allowed me to avoid the $4 Delaware toll and $4 Baltimore toll on I-95. And the traffic was MUCH lighter than utilizing 95. So instead of paying $8, I paid $4. The $4 savings along with the much lighter traffic was well worth it. On the trip home I was aware traffic could be quite congested on this route approaching the Chesapeake Bay Bridge. Being it was midnight though, such traffic didn't exist. I still saved $8 by avoiding the $4 and $8 Maryland tolls and the $4 Delaware toll by paying the $4 Bridge toll and the $4 US 301 toll. I might have spent a few more minutes on the road, but again, the toll savings with the lighter traffic was worth it.
Many staying on I-95 will bypass the $4 Delaware toll plaza via DE 896 and MD 279. An extra 5 - 10 minutes saves the $4.
If I'm going to Sacramento from SF, I sometimes opt to take 101 to 37 to 80 - about 15-20 miles longer but allows me to bypass congestion around the MacArthur Maze and the Eastshore Freeway segment of I-80, all while avoiding the $6 Carquinez Bridge toll. No real way to avoid toll going to SF from Sacramento though without driving all the way into the San Jose area.
VA-168 Chesapeake Expressway in Chesapeake, VA. (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/36.6637208,-76.2304863/36.5746709,-76.199406/@36.6192393,-76.2046755,13z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0!5m1!1e1)
$3 one-way off-peak, and during summer weekends it's as high as $8 one-way. There's been talks recently of raising this to $4 one-way off-peak, and $9 one-way summer weekends.
The 6-mile toll road runs parallel to a 45-55 mph rural two-lane road that I would use any day, and so do a lot of tourist traffic avoiding the $8 one-way toll. Though, most of the tourists don't think twice and pay the toll anyways - and that's why it's so successful.
But I wouldn't pay it. I've used the road a few times just to try it out, it's a nice highway built to interstate standards, but the speed limit is only 55 mph. If the speed limit was 65 mph - my decision to use it may sway some with the incentive to be able to drive 65-75 mph. Not that tourists don't already... But 55 mph - I can easily do that on the two-lane road. That two-lane road used to be 55 mph all the way, so it's designed for that speed, the only reason it's mostly 45-50 mph now is because the city lowered it to sway shunpikers as opposed to the original plan to raise the expressway limit to 65 mph.
On the contrary, the city's other toll road, US-17 Dominion Blvd (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/36.756267,-76.2682927/36.7237718,-76.3084666/@36.7323497,-76.3115085,13z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0!5m1!1e1), I'd use any day. The toll is only $1.16 one-way, and shaves a good 15-30 minutes off taking any other route through urban roadways. The road used to be a free 2-lane road, but was expanded to a 4-lane freeway with a toll. You also cross a 95 foot fixed-span bridge over the Elizabeth River - only the bridge is tolled out of the entire 3-mile freeway - more interesting than $3-8 one-way for rural freeway.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 05, 2019, 12:56:15 PM
On a trip to Florida, I recently took DE 1 to US 301 to US 50 to I-95/495 South. On US 301 I paid the $4 toll, rather than exiting 301 at the final exit before the $4 toll point. It was my first time doing it so I didn't mind paying it. But this route also allowed me to avoid the $4 Delaware toll and $4 Baltimore toll on I-95. And the traffic was MUCH lighter than utilizing 95. So instead of paying $8, I paid $4. The $4 savings along with the much lighter traffic was well worth it. On the trip home I was aware traffic could be quite congested on this route approaching the Chesapeake Bay Bridge. Being it was midnight though, such traffic didn't exist. I still saved $8 by avoiding the $4 and $8 Maryland tolls and the $4 Delaware toll by paying the $4 Bridge toll and the $4 US 301 toll. I might have spent a few more minutes on the road, but again, the toll savings with the lighter traffic was worth it.
Eventually plan on heading up I-64 to I-95 to DC for something, and then through Baltimore to the NJ Turnpike north... a different routing than my usual US-13, US-113, and DE-1 route due to my stop in DC.
Is it worth taking US-301 / DE-1 from DC to Wilmington over I-95? Any big choke points on I-95 that could be avoided? Probably going to be there around 1-3 pm on a weekend. Because I'll go that way if it's better, less traffic, and faster, also would let me clinch the US-301 toll road.
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 05, 2019, 01:20:42 PM
VA-168 Chesapeake Expressway in Chesapeake, VA. (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/36.6637208,-76.2304863/36.5746709,-76.199406/@36.6192393,-76.2046755,13z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0!5m1!1e1)
$3 one-way off-peak, and during summer weekends it's as high as $8 one-way. There's been talks recently of raising this to $4 one-way off-peak, and $9 one-way summer weekends.
75 cents at all times even on peak weekends for regular users, and the membership fee would add about 10 cents to that for a commuter --
http://www.chesapeakeexpressway.com/
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 05, 2019, 01:20:42 PM
The 6-mile toll road runs parallel to a 45-55 mph rural two-lane road that I would use any day, and so do a lot of tourist traffic avoiding the $8 one-way toll. Though, most of the tourists don't think twice and pay the toll anyways - and that's why it's so successful. [...]
But 55 mph - I can easily do that on the two-lane road.
If the toll road wasn't there then Business VA-168 would be like ... ?
Actually I know, it was very congested even 20 years ago.
Quote from: Beltway on July 05, 2019, 01:32:32 PM
75 cents at all times even on peak weekends for regular users --
http://www.chesapeakeexpressway.com/
I'm not a regular user. Only about 9,500 AADT use it on weekdays, compared to 16,000 - 22,000 on Business VA-168.
If I was a regular user, I'd pay the toll.
But you can't just use it a lot and get the discount. You have to enroll in the Chesapeake Expressway Discount Program, and pay a $20 entrance fee, than $3.33 per month after that.
Certainly a savings for a regular user, and to bypass peak-hour congestion on Business VA-168 and get an easy ride, but for someone not local, that's not worth paying. The times I head south, I just use Business VA-168 and save $3 one-way, a total of $6.
Quote from: Beltway on July 05, 2019, 01:32:32 PM
If the toll road wasn't there then Business VA-168 would be like ... ?
Actually I know, it was very congested even 20 years ago.
Did I ever say the toll road was bad? I just said it was something worth avoiding for someone like me. I've seen Business VA-168 before the toll road... it was horrible. And quite frankly, while it's not as bad thanks to the toll road, Business VA-168 still has traffic issues. It carries double the traffic
(about 16,000 - 22,000) that the toll road carries still today
(9,500).
During the summer months is when the most relieve is seen because most of the tourists who clogged up Business VA-168 in the past stay with the toll road and pay the $8 one-way toll. About 30,000 VPD use it during peak weekends, and while it certainly helps Business VA-168, that road is also still packed and there are some backups at traffic signals.
But I'm not complaining about the toll road... it does it's job - mostly getting long-distance tourists off the local roads, and 1/3 of commuters off.
The biggest local complaints have been people moving to Moyock, NC because of the cheaper cost of living, then commuting to Norfolk, but shunpiking on Business VA-168. If you head down Business VA-168 during peak hours, you see a decent amount of North Carolina plates all heading south in the afternoon or north in the morning. Ditto with Elizabeth City and Dominion Blvd.
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 05, 2019, 01:41:42 PM
Quote from: Beltway on July 05, 2019, 01:32:32 PM
75 cents at all times even on peak weekends for regular users, and the membership fee would add about 10 cents to that for a commuter -- --
http://www.chesapeakeexpressway.com/
I'm not a regular user. Only about 9,500 AADT use it on weekdays, compared to 16,000 - 22,000 on Business VA-168.
If I was a regular user, I'd pay the toll.
But you can't just use it a lot and get the discount. You have to enroll in the Chesapeake Expressway Discount Program, and pay a $20 entrance fee, than $3.33 per month after that.
I am aware of that, and that is why I qualified it.
This is a general discussion not specific to an area, that is why I injected the regular user tolls (you didn't in your first post).
Quote from: Beltway on July 05, 2019, 01:48:29 PM
I am aware of that, and that is why I qualified it.
This is a general discussion not specific to an area, that is why I injected the regular user tolls (you didn't in your first post).
To be fair, I don't think anybody on this forum would be eligible for the regular user toll. That's why I didn't feel the need to include it.
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 05, 2019, 01:52:24 PM
Quote from: Beltway on July 05, 2019, 01:48:29 PM
I am aware of that, and that is why I qualified it.
This is a general discussion not specific to an area, that is why I injected the regular user tolls (you didn't in your first post).
To be fair, I don't think anybody on this forum would be eligible for the regular user toll. That's why I didn't feel the need to include it.
Someone out of town that might be considering a job offer or college education in the area?
Quote from: Beltway on July 05, 2019, 01:54:01 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 05, 2019, 01:52:24 PM
Quote from: Beltway on July 05, 2019, 01:48:29 PM
I am aware of that, and that is why I qualified it.
This is a general discussion not specific to an area, that is why I injected the regular user tolls (you didn't in your first post).
To be fair, I don't think anybody on this forum would be eligible for the regular user toll. That's why I didn't feel the need to include it.
Someone out of town that might be considering a job offer or college education in the area?
Maybe....
I'll put it this way - for a regular user who can afford the 75 cents per day (most can), it's worth it completely. Business VA-168 has peak hour congestion, especially the area between Hillcrest Pkwy and Centerville Tpke - a combination of traffic signals, a high school / middle school in one campus make for a mess with the traffic. Avoid it if you can, and the 75 cents is worth it.
For a non-regular, the $3 off-peak may be worth if there's congestion. If Business VA-168 is congestion-free, I wouldn't pay the toll. For the $8 peak toll, I would never pay that, even if there's congestion on Business VA-168. I'd either wait in the congestion, or for someone like me who's familiar with the area, take back roads.
It would be nice if Google Maps estimated the toll cost for a selected route. Drivers can independently research the tolls but it can be difficult to determine what toll roads are even going to be encountered. From my knowledge toll roads aren't differently color coded or anything in Google Maps. Maybe i'm missing a setting somewhere?
Quote from: tradephoric on July 05, 2019, 02:20:37 PM
It would be nice if Google Maps estimated the toll cost for a selected route. Drivers can independently research the tolls but it can be difficult to determine what toll roads are even going to be encountered. From my knowledge toll roads aren't differently color coded or anything in Google Maps. Maybe i'm missing a setting somewhere?
Google Maps does not provide toll information though this is an extremely useful site when it comes to trip planning and toll roads - https://tollguru.com/
Just enter your start and finish points, then it will route the quickest route and tell you the toll rates on it.
It may not be 100% reliable, though all of the times I've used it, it's accurate.
There's also a mobile app.
It would be the best if Google Maps did provide toll information, but this is the next best option.
^Thank you sprjus4 that is a pretty awesome site. I inputted that Harrisburg to Detroit trip and the cheapest route would save $45 in tolls (without the EZ pass) but would take an hour longer to drive. Now is a $45 dollar savings worth getting to your destination an hour earlier? If you make less than $45/hr in your regular job it could very well be worth it to avoid the tolls. Even if you do make more than $45/hr it could be worth it.
ON 407 is one of the most expensive in the nation. Should be avoided outside of peak hours, and even then it could be a tossup: depends on whether time or money is more valuable in the given context.
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 05, 2019, 02:03:00 PM
For a non-regular, the $3 off-peak may be worth if there's congestion. If Business VA-168 is congestion-free, I wouldn't pay the toll. For the $8 peak toll, I would never pay that, even if there's congestion on Business VA-168. I'd either wait in the congestion, or for someone like me who's familiar with the area, take back roads.
VA-168 is on the preferred route between Richmond and the Outer Banks. In peak hours unless I was sure that the business route was congestion-free, I would take the tollroad.
With EZPass and a $100 direct draft replenishment level, it is easy to average my tolls into the total cost of driving, and not look at the individual transaction. I take the Pocahontas Parkway probably more than I need to, and that is $4.50.
But as always YMMV.
Quote from: Beltway on July 05, 2019, 03:45:09 PM
VA-168 is on the preferred route between Richmond and the Outer Banks. In peak hours unless I was sure that the business route was congestion-free, I would take the tollroad.
For someone who would be considered long-distance traffic, that makes sense. For locals like myself, Business VA-168 is the way to go for most of us.
Considering the fact that most of the long-distance traffic is going down to the Outer Banks where they're going to spend hundreds, maybe even thousands of dollars, the toll is wash for most long-distance traffic and they could care or less.
I just don't see VA-168 worth $8 from my viewpoint as a local, even with a few red lights and 5-10 minutes added on from using the business route. It's not hard to avoid the toll and the business route usually doesn't have issues except during weekday rush hour, and at that point the toll is only $3.
I recall once at night, I was able to drive 55 mph from Hillcrest Pkwy to the bottom of the toll road without stopping once. I think I wasted a total of 2 minutes avoiding the toll, and saved $8 as it was on a peak weekend Saturday. Completely worth the money saved for a local trip.
It's not an issue for me that much though as I don't go down to North Carolina that often, and usually when I do, it's down US-17 towards the cities on those routes. I frequently use VA-168 down to the last free exit, but my destination is generally around there, so the toll road isn't even an option.
Quote from: Beltway on July 05, 2019, 03:45:09 PM
With EZPass and a $100 direct draft replenishment level, it is easy to average my tolls into the total cost of driving, and not look at the individual transaction. I take the Pocahontas Parkway probably more than I need to, and that is $4.50.
Speaking of the Pocahontas Pkwy, I decided to try it for the first time (I'd usually avoid it when in the Richmond area) last week, and it's certainly a nice highway, but for my entire trip from I-95 to I-295, I counted 8 cars total pass in the other direction. The road was desolate, and I don't think anybody passed me going eastbound, and I think I passed 3 cars total. It felt like driving on a closed highway.
Is it usually this empty? I've read before it's had problems with low traffic counts, under usage, toll revenue not meeting what it needs to be, etc.
I feel like if the toll was more reasonable, more people would use it. I'm curious what it's traffic would be like without a toll.
For instance, if VA-168 was untolled, it's traffic counts would likely jump to 20,000 - 30,000 AADT. It's around 30,000 AADT at the state line, but then decreases to 9,600 AADT on the tolled portion as Business VA-168 goes up to 16,000 - 22,000, then when the toll road ends, it skyrockets to 40,000 AADT.
EDIT - I see now on Google Maps the travel time on the toll road is 7 minutes, and 10 minutes on Business VA-168. This would be a time I would avoid the toll because it's only 3 additional minutes.
Quote from: Flint1979 on July 05, 2019, 12:22:23 PM
Toledo to Cleveland or vice versa taking OH-2 bypasses the toll road. There are a few other alternate routes around that too. OH-2 becomes a freeway at Port Clinton going towards Cleveland.
Often times I will avoid the Chicago Skyway and take the Borman to the Bishop Ford to the Dan Ryan. Which adds on 5 miles and the Skyway would actually be an advantage due to the traffic on the three freeways I named earlier. It's $9 just to cross the bridge on the Skyway.
It's only $5.30 for the Skyway itself, but still worth avoiding and using the Borman. It's $3.67 (EZ Pass) for the Indiana Toll Road.
Most of my friends who travel between Baltimore and the northeast shunpike the Delaware toll.
Off the top of my head, I can't think of any toll road I avoid purely because of the toll (as opposed to for other reasons, like avoiding the Pennsylvania Turnpike last week when I was coming down I-99 and I didn't want to deal with Breezewood). Most of the toll roads I use offer a significant time difference compared to the alternatives–for example, if I want to go out to Leesburg, the Dulles Toll Road/Dulles Greenway route is simply a lot faster than any other option such that the fairly hefty toll is worth it, and in Florida if we want to go from Fort Myers to Pembroke Pines it's well worth $3 for Alligator Alley versus going through small towns on FL-80 or taking the two-lane US-41.
Even when I was in college without a lot of money, I tended to opt for the Jersey Turnpike over I-295 most of the time because my experience was that you could get away with going a lot faster on the Turnpike, which to me made the toll worth it.
I can think of specific toll plazas I might avoid. The "Tourist Exit" in Maine is my favorite example, though I haven't been there since July 2008. Basically if you're headed north and are bound for Portland, you should take Exit 45 (free) instead of Exit 44 (tolled) because it's less than a mile out of the way. But of course you're still using the toll road (the Maine Turnpike) to get there.
The only time I frequently use toll roads is in Illinois. I don't go out of my way to avoid tollways, but if I can't decide which route to use because they're similar in time - 10 minute difference or less - tolls can be the deciding factor.
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 05, 2019, 04:42:04 PM
Quote from: Beltway on July 05, 2019, 03:45:09 PM
With EZPass and a $100 direct draft replenishment level, it is easy to average my tolls into the total cost of driving, and not look at the individual transaction. I take the Pocahontas Parkway probably more than I need to, and that is $4.50.
Speaking of the Pocahontas Pkwy, I decided to try it for the first time (I'd usually avoid it when in the Richmond area) last week, and it's certainly a nice highway, but for my entire trip from I-95 to I-295, I counted 8 cars total pass in the other direction. The road was desolate, and I don't think anybody passed me going eastbound, and I think I passed 3 cars total. It felt like driving on a closed highway.
Is it usually this empty? I've read before it's had problems with low traffic counts, under usage, toll revenue not meeting what it needs to be, etc.
I feel like if the toll was more reasonable, more people would use it. I'm curious what it's traffic would be like without a toll.
The toll is what is needed to support the bond issues, and the facility includes the airport connector which does not have its own toll.
I usually see a lot more traffic than that. It carries about 17,000 AADT.
Quote from: Beltway on July 05, 2019, 10:29:34 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 05, 2019, 04:42:04 PM
Quote from: Beltway on July 05, 2019, 03:45:09 PM
With EZPass and a $100 direct draft replenishment level, it is easy to average my tolls into the total cost of driving, and not look at the individual transaction. I take the Pocahontas Parkway probably more than I need to, and that is $4.50.
Speaking of the Pocahontas Pkwy, I decided to try it for the first time (I'd usually avoid it when in the Richmond area) last week, and it's certainly a nice highway, but for my entire trip from I-95 to I-295, I counted 8 cars total pass in the other direction. The road was desolate, and I don't think anybody passed me going eastbound, and I think I passed 3 cars total. It felt like driving on a closed highway.
Is it usually this empty? I've read before it's had problems with low traffic counts, under usage, toll revenue not meeting what it needs to be, etc.
I feel like if the toll was more reasonable, more people would use it. I'm curious what it's traffic would be like without a toll.
The toll is what is needed to support the bond issues, and the facility includes the airport connector which does not have its own toll.
I usually see a lot more traffic than that. It carries about 17,000 AADT.
Speaking of the Airport Connector, I also gave that a shot... it was like $2.50 to drive 1/2 mile on VA-895 to access it... I didn't realize that you have to pay a toll to access it from I-295... if had known that I would've just swung around to US 60 or I-64.
It looked like the Airport Connector was far over designed... there's stubs to something getting off 895, perhaps businesses they thought would move there? Then the two overpasses, while convenient, at-grade crossings would have sufficed. The road was dead when I used it, I didn't see a single car in sight. Leaving though, I went to I-64, and the access road that way was packed.
I suppose if you're willing to pay the toll, it's a nice freeway & airport access road, but I certainly wouldn't on a regular basis.
I'd be willing to bet if the toll was more reasonable like other Richmond toll roads, more people would use it. But who knows...
The Downtown Expressway was far more impressive IMO, and is only 70 cents. I was surprised to see $4.50 and $2.50 in my E-ZPass account for Pocahontas Parkway. I had originally assumed like $2 for the mainline, and free to access the airport connector road, especially based on how heavily the signage on I-295 is to get you to access the airport that way without alerting you it's $2.50 that way, and free if you want to go an extra 3 minutes to US-60.
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 05, 2019, 11:01:14 PM
Quote from: Beltway on July 05, 2019, 10:29:34 PM
The toll is what is needed to support the bond issues, and the facility includes the airport connector which does not have its own toll.
I usually see a lot more traffic than that. It carries about 17,000 AADT.
Speaking of the Airport Connector, I also gave that a shot... it was like $2.50 to drive 1/2 mile on VA-895 to access it... I didn't realize that you have to pay a toll to access it from I-295... if had known that I would've just swung around to US 60 or I-64.
The toll is for the 1.5 mile segment of VA-895, not for the connector. Provides good southerly access to the airport to/from I-295.
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 05, 2019, 11:01:14 PM
It looked like the Airport Connector was far over designed... there's stubs to something getting off 895, perhaps businesses they thought would move there? Then the two overpasses, while convenient, at-grade crossings would have sufficed.
Designed for business parks at those stub intersections. One bridge over the railroad, and it raises the grade high enough that an at-grade intersection at Sprouse Drive was infeasible. At-grade highway crossings of mainline railroads is highly discouraged by both the railroad and the highway agency.
Based on underperformance trafficwise, a 2-lane highway could have sufficed, but based on planned new business accesses, 4 lanes is probably wise.
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 05, 2019, 11:01:14 PM
The Downtown Expressway was far more impressive IMO, and is only 70 cents. I was surprised to see $4.50 and $2.50 in my E-ZPass account for Pocahontas Parkway.
You know that highway construction has gotten vastly more expensive in that time period. The Downtown Expressway cost $60 million and VA-895 cost $360 million.
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 05, 2019, 11:01:14 PM
I had originally assumed like $2 for the mainline, and free to access the airport connector road, especially based on how heavily the signage on I-295 is to get you to access the airport that way without alerting you it's $2.50 that way, and free if you want to go an extra 3 minutes to US-60.
The signs on I-295 do say that it is a toll road. So you go that way one time and if you don't like it you don't repeat.
It is not just a southerly access to the airport, but also more direct access to businesses to the west and south of the airport.
Quote from: Beltway on July 05, 2019, 11:40:54 PM
The toll is for the 1.5 mile segment of VA-895, not for the connector.
The mainline toll for VA-895 is $4.50 for 8.8 miles - 51 cents per mile.
The toll you pay should reflect how many miles you traveled.
It costs $2.60 to travel 1.5 miles between I-295 and Airport Dr, while it also costs $2.60 to drive 5 miles between I-295 and Laburnum Ave. If you travel between Airport Dr and Laburnum Ave - 3.5 miles - it's also $2.60.
The two toll roads in North Carolina, NC-540 and US-74 Bypass use per-mile toll rates, with electronic gantries placed every mile collecting a small fixed rate each mile. The less you travel, the less you pay. And the amount you pay is the same per-mile no matter if you travel part of the road or all of it.
The current toll schedule is unreasonable, and you pay more in theory traveling in segments than traveling the whole road. Obviously, it's less for segments, but per-mile it's way more. You pay $1.73 per mile between I-295 and Airport Dr - 3.5x the per-mile rate for someone traveling the entire road.
Here's a reasonable per-mile schedule using 51 cents per mile, and still accomplishing $4.50 for the entire road, and less depending how many miles you travel.
Eastbound -
I-95 to Laburnum Ave - 3 miles - $1.53
Laburnum Ave to Airport Dr - 3 miles - $1.53
I-95 to Airport Dr - 7 miles - $3.57
Airport Dr to I-295 - 1.5 miles - $1.02
I-95 to I-295 - 8.8 miles - $4.50
Westbound -
Laburnum Ave to I-95 - 3 miles - $1.53
Airport Dr to Laburnum Ave - 3 miles - $1.53
Airport Dr to I-95 - 7 miles - $3.57
I-295 to Airport Dr - 1.5 miles - $1.02
I-295 to I-95 - 8.8 miles - $4.50
That would provide a fair and uniform toll-by-mile system compared to the current toll schedule. You would need to add toll gantries between the interchanges to accomplish this, 2 or 3 them total. I would be in favor of such of setup, and would be more fair and uniform.
Quote from: Beltway on July 05, 2019, 11:40:54 PM
Designed for business parks at those stub intersections.
Looks like they've been real successful! If anything got built there, I imagine most of the traffic would still come to/from I-64 via Airport Dr. It's kind of a poor location for a business park to locate IMO.
Quote from: Beltway on July 05, 2019, 11:40:54 PM
The signs on I-295 do say that it is a toll road.
Not the outrageous $1.73 per mile toll rate compared to the 51 cent per mile rate of the entire road.
Quote from: Beltway on July 05, 2019, 10:29:34 PM
It carries about 17,000 AADT.
15,000 AADT between Laburnum Ave and I-95, and 7,600 AADT between Laburnum Ave and I-295.
Very low numbers east of Laburnum Ave it appears. My observations traveling the road would say that number is pretty accurate.
That's why they make Laburnum Ave traffic from I-295 pay the full $4.50 toll rate instead of a fair $1.53 rate for only traveling 3 miles. It's the only "heavily"
(it's not even that heavy) traveled segment, so you have to charge the highest there.
I'd be interested to see the AADT on the Airport Rd Connector... I couldn't imagine anything over 2,000 AADT.
Overall the VA-895 toll road is a nice highway, and the Airport Rd connector is a nice roadway, but it's not that successful for a toll road, at least operationally.
Quote from: Beltway on July 05, 2019, 10:29:34 PM
planned new business accesses, 4 lanes is probably wise.
I don't think those business accesses have attracted any businesses... it's been what 7 years since the road opened?
It should have been two-lanes on a four-lane right of way. It would have saved a lot of money, and as we see today, much more wise.
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 06, 2019, 12:48:01 AM
Quote from: Beltway on July 05, 2019, 11:40:54 PM
The toll is for the 1.5 mile segment of VA-895, not for the connector.
The mainline toll for VA-895 is $4.50 for 8.8 miles - 51 cents per mile.
The toll you pay should reflect how many miles you traveled.
It costs $2.60 to travel 1.5 miles between I-295 and Airport Dr, while it also costs $2.60 to drive 5 miles between I-295 and Laburnum Ave. If you travel between Airport Dr and Laburnum Ave - 3.5 miles - it's also $2.60.
I should clarify that while the connector does not have a direct toll, its $60 million cost is supported by the mainline and ramp tolling.
[calculations based on those misconceptions snipped]
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 06, 2019, 12:48:01 AM
Quote from: Beltway on July 05, 2019, 11:40:54 PM
Designed for business parks at those stub intersections.
Looks like they've been real successful! If anything got built there, I imagine most of the traffic would still come to/from I-64 via Airport Dr. It's kind of a poor location for a business park to locate IMO.
It is a good area, as it has good highway access and would be an extension of the large developments of businesses to the west and south of the airport. Google Maps Satellite View shows those developments very well.
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 06, 2019, 12:48:01 AM
That's why they make Laburnum Ave traffic from I-295 pay the full $4.50 toll rate instead of a fair $1.53 rate for only traveling 3 miles.
Going to Chesterfield County, that is, and because the mainline toll plaza is near the James River Bridges and elevated I-95 interchange, where a disproportionately high amount of the money was spent to build the highway.
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 06, 2019, 12:48:01 AM
Quote from: Beltway on July 05, 2019, 10:29:34 PM
planned new business accesses, 4 lanes is probably wise.
I don't think those business accesses have attracted any businesses... it's been what 7 years since the road opened?
Give it time. Have you been on US-250 west of Short Pump? The 3 miles on either side of the county line was rebuilt from a 2-lane highway to a 6-lane highway about 1999-2000, and it is only the last 5 years or so that a lot of major development has taken place. Hardly anything at all for the first 10 years. The plan was for it to move a lot faster but it has taken longer. But it certainly needs those 6 lanes now.
Quote from: Beltway on July 06, 2019, 01:11:38 AM
Give it time. Have you been on US-250 west of Short Pump? The 3 miles on either side of the county line was rebuilt from a 2-lane highway to a 6-lane highway about 1999-2000, and it is only the last 5 years or so that a lot of major development has taken place. Hardly anything at all for the first 10 years. The plan was for it to move a lot faster but it has taken longer. But it certainly needs those 6 lanes now.
Growth gradually has been expanding west, and they're expecting even more to continue west to VA-623, then up VA-623 to I-64.
That growth was naturally coming, and the county expanded to road to accommodate that growth expected. The growth didn't just come because of "good access". There's a heavily developed area east of it, and it's expanding west naturally. Trust me, if it was still 2-lanes, the growth would still come. We see this down here in Chesapeake where the city fails to maintain and upgrade infrastructure to accommodate future growth. The growth comes anyways, it expands out from where it is existing.
Is there a master plan for the Airport Dr corridor? Interested to see if such exists, and if it does, what's included on it.
I suppose your argument is -somewhat- valid. Hillcrest Parkway was constructed with the VA-168 Chesapeake Expressway in 2001, and it sat vacant until about 2007-2009 when businesses started moving in and residential development began. Now there's a successful retail district off of a major highway - though this one naturally attracts most traffic from the north who doesn't pay a toll to access the area. The toll is one thing that may impact the development opportunities on the Airport Dr corridor, though I could be mistaken. We'll have to look back in 5-10 years from now.
Barrier tolls tend to have uneven toll rates based on per-mile driving. Use I-95 in Delaware as an example: To travel the entire 11 mile road, it's $4, or about 36 cents per mile. To go between Exit 1 and Maryland, it's $4, or about $2 per mile.
Every General Highway Talk thread seems to become a Mid-Atlantic thread at some point.
Quote from: thspfc on July 06, 2019, 08:27:19 AM
Every General Highway Talk thread seems to become a Mid-Atlantic thread at some point.
Not just that, but also the same two users arguing.
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 06, 2019, 01:27:17 AM
Is there a master plan for the Airport Dr corridor? Interested to see if such exists, and if it does, what's included on it.
Prime Economic Development Site #18, 575 acres, zoned industrial, with the Airport Connector passing thru the center of it.
https://henrico.us/pdfs/planning/2026plan/maps/2026-chap7-maps.pdf
https://henrico.us/pdfs/planning/2026plan/chap7.pdf [pg. 109]
https://henrico.us/planning/2026-comprehensive-plan/2026plan-2026chp7/
The 2026 Comprehensive Plan adopted on August 11, 2009 replaced the 2010 Comprehensive Plan as the official comprehensive plan for Henrico County.
21 parcels of land are listed for that site on pg. 109, and if you zoom in onto the map you can count them. So at least as of 2009 those parcels were already owned by developers.
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 06, 2019, 01:27:17 AM
I suppose your argument is -somewhat- valid.
It is not an "argument", just noting that planned development areas require developers to spend tens or hundreds of millions of dollars to build the actual businesses, and that can happen quickly or slowly based on a variety of factors.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 06, 2019, 08:21:25 AM
Barrier tolls tend to have uneven toll rates based on per-mile driving. Use I-95 in Delaware as an example: To travel the entire 11 mile road, it's $4, or about 36 cents per mile. To go between Exit 1 and Maryland, it's $4, or about $2 per mile.
I-95 in northeast Maryland. The mainline toll plaza supports the entire 42-mile JFK Highway / Northeastern Expressway.
Tolls are collected in the northbound direction only at the toll plaza located one mile north of the Millard E. Tydings Memorial Bridge over the Susquehanna River in northeast Maryland.
I always think of many of these tolls as extremely high. However, I'm just used to low tolls. The Mass Pike is about $10 through the state (to downtown Boston, not to the airport), and much lower if you only use it west of I-495. NY and ME have similar per-mile rates.
Quote from: Brandon on July 05, 2019, 05:58:37 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on July 05, 2019, 12:22:23 PM
Toledo to Cleveland or vice versa taking OH-2 bypasses the toll road. There are a few other alternate routes around that too. OH-2 becomes a freeway at Port Clinton going towards Cleveland.
Often times I will avoid the Chicago Skyway and take the Borman to the Bishop Ford to the Dan Ryan. Which adds on 5 miles and the Skyway would actually be an advantage due to the traffic on the three freeways I named earlier. It's $9 just to cross the bridge on the Skyway.
It's only $5.30 for the Skyway itself, but still worth avoiding and using the Borman. It's $3.67 (EZ Pass) for the Indiana Toll Road.
I thought you had to pay $9 at the plaza where McDonald's use to be. But yeah I avoid it if I can. I usually check the traffic along the way and will take Stony Island or Indianapolis into the Southside. I avoid the toll going to Milwaukee too, I know it takes longer to take US-41 but it avoids the Tri-State.
Quote from: thspfc on July 06, 2019, 08:27:19 AM
Every General Highway Talk thread seems to become a Mid-Atlantic thread at some point.
Well, what do you expect when the number of toll roads/number of users/number of roads in general is higher on the east coast than in the midwest?
A question about US 301 vs. I-95 from Washington into Delaware was asked upthread, and I am also curious about the answer...which offers the best cost to time saved ratio?
Quote from: csw on July 06, 2019, 01:21:11 PM
....
A question about US 301 vs. I-95 from Washington into Delaware was asked upthread, and I am also curious about the answer...which offers the best cost to time saved ratio?
I don't think there's any one good answer to that because the traffic on the US-50/301 route varies considerably depending on what day it is and what direction you're going. If you're headed east/north, for example, it's a bad idea to go that way on a Friday during the summer because of the backups approaching the Bay Bridge. There are still A LOT of people who persist in using cash to pay the toll, and there are still no highway-speed E-ZPass lanes. But on a Thursday morning, there's often very little eastbound traffic (I just went that way two weeks ago in order to clinch the new part of US-301).
Similarly, commuter traffic on the I-95 route can be heavy, and you have to plan for the possibility/probability that there will be some sort of crash or other incident that will delay things. The drive is likely to feel like more of a rat race than the US-301 route, and you'll probably get annoyed at the utter lack of lane discipline that runs rampant (I often find the far right lane to be the fastest on I-95 in Maryland).
If all things were equal, I-95 is probably faster. But all things are seldom equal! I enjoyed the US-301 way two weeks ago simply because it was a very relaxed drive, at least once we were beyond Kent Island.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 06, 2019, 02:48:24 PM
Quote from: csw on July 06, 2019, 01:21:11 PM
....
A question about US 301 vs. I-95 from Washington into Delaware was asked upthread, and I am also curious about the answer...which offers the best cost to time saved ratio?
I don't think there's any one good answer to that because the traffic on the US-50/301 route varies considerably depending on what day it is and what direction you're going. If you're headed east/north, for example, it's a bad idea to go that way on a Friday during the summer because of the backups approaching the Bay Bridge. There are still A LOT of people who persist in using cash to pay the toll, and there are still no highway-speed E-ZPass lanes. But on a Thursday morning, there's often very little eastbound traffic (I just went that way two weeks ago in order to clinch the new part of US-301).
Similarly, commuter traffic on the I-95 route can be heavy, and you have to plan for the possibility/probability that there will be some sort of crash or other incident that will delay things. The drive is likely to feel like more of a rat race than the US-301 route, and you'll probably get annoyed at the utter lack of lane discipline that runs rampant (I often find the far right lane to be the fastest on I-95 in Maryland).
If all things were equal, I-95 is probably faster. But all things are seldom equal! I enjoyed the US-301 way two weeks ago simply because it was a very relaxed drive, at least once we were beyond Kent Island.
What would you say about a Sunday? That's the day of the week I'm looking to go up that way.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 06, 2019, 02:48:24 PM
Quote from: csw on July 06, 2019, 01:21:11 PM
A question about US 301 vs. I-95 from Washington into Delaware was asked upthread, and I am also curious about the answer...which offers the best cost to time saved ratio?
[...]
If all things were equal, I-95 is probably faster. But all things are seldom equal! I enjoyed the US-301 way two weeks ago simply because it was a very relaxed drive, at least once we were beyond Kent Island.
Free-flowing time estimates on Google Maps favor I-95, by 8 miles less and about 18 minutes less.
Right this minute northbound they are routing traffic by way of US-301 as being 2 minutes faster, due to several congestion points -- Beltsville, near Fort McHenry Tunnel, and near the JFK toll plaza area which collects northbound only.
Southbound, I-95 is 5 minutes faster. The trip pair is Fredericksburg and Philadelphia.
I used the new US-301 freeway on my trip 2 weeks ago, and it is very nice, being able to bypass all those signals and slow travel in Middletown.
Quote from: csw on July 06, 2019, 01:21:11 PM
A question about US 301 vs. I-95 from Washington into Delaware was asked upthread, and I am also curious about the answer...which offers the best cost to time saved ratio?
I know I stated upthread my experiences of using 301 rather than 95.
In free-flowing conditions you may lose a little time but your tolls will be cut in half. But you also have a lot less traffic to deal with.
On a Sunday, most likely going North/East you'll be ok until you hit DE 1 and 95 or DE 1 and 13/40. But you'll hit similar traffic staying on 95.
I couldn't say as to a Sunday simply because it's been too many years since I've gone that way on Sunday. In particular, I avoid being on the Eastern Shore on Sunday because the traffic coming back over the Bay Bridge can be very heavy and slow. Obviously that wouldn't affect you on the way north.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 06, 2019, 02:48:24 PM
f all things were equal, I-95 is probably faster. But all things are seldom equal! I enjoyed the US-301 way two weeks ago simply because it was a very relaxed drive, at least once we were beyond Kent Island.
I agree. US-301 is very low traffic once you're past Kent Island and especially past the US-50 split. However, I was recently coming home from Baltimore on a
Saturday at 3pm which was horrible. I was stuck in traffic for about 30-45 minutes waiting to get through the toll on the Bay Bridge (using the E-ZPass "express" lane). Once I passed that, we were moving about 40 MPH on the contraflow of the westbound span of the Bay Bridge and picked up some speed after passing Stevensville.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 06, 2019, 05:00:08 PM
I couldn't say as to a Sunday simply because it's been too many years since I've gone that way on Sunday. In particular, I avoid being on the Eastern Shore on Sunday because the traffic coming back over the Bay Bridge can be very heavy and slow. Obviously that wouldn't affect you on the way north.
From my experience heading northbound from Dover on summer Sundays, I just avoid DE-1 as much as I can, though I can't speak for 301/Bay Bridge. Last time I made that trip (from Dover to Newark), I entered DE-1 at Exit 104 (US-13 in North Dover) and got off at Exit 119 (US-13 in North Smyrna), just to bypass Smyrna on US-13, and took US-13 to DE-71 up through Middletown to eventually hit Newark on DE-896. DE-1 seems to be moving most of the way up, but the traffic is so heavy that I just find it very overwhelming to drive.
Here's what I'm getting for off-peak conditions between I-495 south of US-50 and Wilmington for northbound -
I-95 - 1 hour 41 minutes, 107 miles
$16 in tolls - $4 at Fort McHenry Tunnel, $8 at Tydings Bridge, and $4 at the Delaware State Line
US-301 to DE-1 - 1 hour 52 minutes, 111 miles
$8 in tolls - $4 at Chesapeake Bay Bridge, $4 at Delaware State Line
Here's what I'm getting for off-peak conditions between Wilmington and I-495 south of US-50 for southbound -
I-95 - 1 hour 41 minutes, 107 miles
$8 in tolls - $4 at Fort McHenry Tunnel, $4 at Delaware State Line
DE-1 to US-301 - 1 hour 52 minutes, 111 miles
$4 in tolls - $4 at Delaware State Line
Based on this, it appears for my northbound trip US-301 to DE-1 would be the better routing. For one, it's $8 cheaper, it bypasses Baltimore, and is only 11 minutes slower.
For my southbound trip, I-95 will likely be the better routing because it's only $4 more, and I can bypass the Delaware State Line toll by exiting I-95 then re-entering shaving off that $4. It will likely be night by the time I head through Baltimore, so I don't expect the city to be an issue. This will probably end up being a Saturday.
Since I usually use US-13 to US-113 to DE-1 as opposed to I-95 when heading north, this is a route I've not used before so this is why I'm asking for feedback. I have to use it this time due to having to stop in the DC area both directions.
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 07, 2019, 02:38:59 AM
For my southbound trip, I-95 will likely be the better routing because it's only $4 more, and I can bypass the Delaware State Line toll by exiting I-95 then re-entering shaving off that $4. It will likely be night by the time I head through Baltimore, so I don't expect the city to be an issue. This will probably end up being a Saturday.
I used DE-1 and US-301 on a recent trip from the Philadelphia area to Easton, MD. I was surprised at the deteriorated pavement condition of parts of US-301 in Maryland, at least surprising for Maryland given the generally good pavement conditions in that state.
As I type this, WTOP reports a 22-mile backup (or more) on US-50 heading to the westbound Bay Bridge. US-301 isn't as bad except, of course, that it dumps you onto Route 50 where you still have over 10 miles to go to the bridge. That's the sort of thing that requires the advance planning, and ongoing monitoring, in comparing routes.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 07, 2019, 02:09:23 PM
As I type this, WTOP reports a 22-mile backup (or more) on US-50 heading to the westbound Bay Bridge. US-301 isn't as bad except, of course, that it dumps you onto Route 50 where you still have over 10 miles to go to the bridge. That's the sort of thing that requires the advance planning, and ongoing monitoring, in comparing routes.
Anything unusual like a major incident that caused a 22-mile backup? Wonder what kind of average speeds in this "backup". A "backup" could have average speeds of 30 mph or it could be barely moving an inch.
I don't know, the report I saw didn't provide that level of detail and I don't want to play the audio report to find out because I'm sitting at my father's bedside and I think the audio would disturb him too much.
I lived in Portsmouth, VA from 2003-7 and regularly had to drive up to DC for the week, especially when I had training at the Navy Yard. (Hazards of being a fed employee.) I found it easier driving back using US 301/17 than dealing with I-95. The HOV lanes ended at Quantico Creek, causing nightmare backups on Friday afternoons and still miserable traffic to Fredericksburg. I happily paid the US 301 bridge toll even though normally it's about a half hour or so longer. It also gave me an excuse to stop at Captain Billy's for dinner rather than the chain crap surrounding Potomac Mills.
I have no idea what US 301 is north of Waldorf. But US 301/17 is a very nice, relaxing drive through some very scenic towns and rural areas in Eastern Virginia between DC and the Tidewater region. The toll on US 17 at Yorktown was northbound only, so it was only one toll and well worth the price.
I also regularly shunpiked the Chesapeake Expressway, but my trips to the Outer Banks were rare and done in off-peak hours so traffic was minimal.
Quote from: Beltway on July 07, 2019, 02:13:39 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 07, 2019, 02:09:23 PM
As I type this, WTOP reports a 22-mile backup (or more) on US-50 heading to the westbound Bay Bridge. US-301 isn't as bad except, of course, that it dumps you onto Route 50 where you still have over 10 miles to go to the bridge. That's the sort of thing that requires the advance planning, and ongoing monitoring, in comparing routes.
Anything unusual like a major incident that caused a 22-mile backup? Wonder what kind of average speeds in this "backup". A "backup" could have average speeds of 30 mph or it could be barely moving an inch.
Supposedly a major accident is causing the slowdown... likely lane closures.
Waze reports based on user data the average speed is 18 mph through a 14 mile course right now between the US 301 / US 50 interchange and the toll plaza across the Chesapeake Bay.
EDIT 3:53pm - Now up to 20 miles, spilling onto 5 miles of US-50 north of the freeway. US-301 has no issues until the interchange on the other hand.
Quote from: skluth on July 07, 2019, 03:05:29 PM
I lived in Portsmouth, VA from 2003-7 and regularly had to drive up to DC for the week, especially when I had training at the Navy Yard. (Hazards of being a fed employee.) I found it easier driving back using US 301/17 than dealing with I-95. The HOV lanes ended at Quantico Creek, causing nightmare backups on Friday afternoons and still miserable traffic to Fredericksburg. I happily paid the US 301 bridge toll even though normally it's about a half hour or so longer. It also gave me an excuse to stop at Captain Billy's for dinner rather than the chain crap surrounding Potomac Mills.
I have no idea what US 301 is north of Waldorf. But US 301/17 is a very nice, relaxing drive through some very scenic towns and rural areas in Eastern Virginia between DC and the Tidewater region. The toll on US 17 at Yorktown was northbound only, so it was only one toll and well worth the price.
I've tried US-17 and US-301, and it's a nice route, but it doesn't do any good when the HRBT and MMMBT are backed up and you're going to the south side.
In that case, US-301 to I-95 to US-460 could work... I-95 isn't that problematic south of Fredericksburg.
I've found myself usually just waiting out I-95 traffic.
Whenever I end up going up there, I'll be HOV on both the Saturday and Sunday trip so the HO/T lanes from Stafford northward will be beneficial and with no tolls.
Currently, the HO/T lanes are under construction all the way down to Fredericksburg, so that will be a nice relief for both the GP and HO/T traffic when they open. I've noticed the biggest choke points on I-95 South is where the lanes dump into the GP lanes. That massive choke point would be gone.
They're also building "local" and "thru" lanes between US-17 and VA-3 in Fredericksburg, including new bridges over the Rapphannack River. That would create 3 "local" and 3 "thru" lanes in each direction with none tolled. The HO/T lanes would tie seamlessly into the local and thru system at the north end.
I couldn't see the HO/T lanes extending farther south from here in the future mostly because the "local" and "thru" project is constructing lanes in the median, meaning there will be no room left to squeeze in HO/T lanes. Unless they elevated them or reconstructed the entire newly built lanes, it would be impossible.
Quote from: skluth on July 07, 2019, 03:05:29 PM
I also regularly shunpiked the Chesapeake Expressway, but my trips to the Outer Banks were rare and done in off-peak hours so traffic was minimal.
I've always shunpiked the Expressway, except once I used it a few years back simply to try it out since I've never used it - and it's a nice highway but only 55 mph and not much faster than Business VA-168 during off-peak hours. I've also ended up using it during peak hours simply to not deal with any traffic and for a one time trip, I have no issues paying the $3.
During peak weekends in the summer, I would never pay the $8 toll it is now.
When you lived in the area, you mentioned around 2007, the toll was only $2 all times, including peak weekends. It's now $3 regular, and $8 during weekends in the summer.
Quote from: thspfc on July 06, 2019, 08:27:19 AM
Every General Highway Talk thread seems to become a Mid-Atlantic thread at some point.
It's ok, almost every northeast thread becomes a mileage based exit discussion thread somehow.
But back on topic:
The round trip from CT to Baltimore using I-95 is about $60.
I've cut it down to $20 but that's going around the Delaware toll, using I-295 instead of the NJ Tpke both there and back.
SB only: you can use the Garden State Pkwy to cutdown on tolls.
NB only: I've used parts of US-1 and I-287 to the NY Thruway to I-84 back towards CT. It adds a lot more time and mileage but I enjoyed the better scenery. Plus I refuse to pay the PANYNJ tolls if I don't have to.
I've said on other threads I completely avoid the Chesapeake Expwy, so that applies here as well.
I have avoided the Chicago Skyway at night. During the daytime I actually utilized it to duck at least some of the traffic in Chicago's south side en route to the ITR.
Quote from: thspfc on July 06, 2019, 08:27:19 AM
Every General Highway Talk thread seems to become a Mid-Atlantic thread at some point.
It makes sense here because there are a lot of tolls in the Mid-Atlantic region and many are avoidable. The Chesapeake Expressway and Pennsylvania Turnpike, for example. It's only when you need to cross water (pretty much any bridge or tunnel) that it often becomes unavoidable.
Around here (Bay area in general) one quickly learns a couple of toll-avoiding idioms: if humanly possible, plan any trips that require any bay crossings so that you're heading east rather than west (tolls are one-way west over both the S.F. and San Pablo bays and one-way north over the Carquinez Straits or the Delta (i.e., Antioch Bridge). For a few years I had to make a trip to Sacramento about every three weeks to visit a subcontractor who rebuilt speaker cones for me; as it was more or less an all-day trip there and back, I did the "Nascar" routine: counterclockwise, using the I-580/205/5 (or, alternately CA 99) route up there and I-80/680 back to San Jose (this generally was "contraflow" as well regarding commute traffic except for SB I-680 between Walnut Creek & Dublin). Complete avoidance of tolled facilities on the way up, and free direction coming back.
Chicago Skyway
Denver's expensive E-470. It's $22.55 for the whole length (approx. 45 miles). Even with Express Toll, it's $14.25.
Quote from: hbelkins on July 05, 2019, 06:07:21 PM
Most of my friends who travel between Baltimore and the northeast shunpike the Delaware toll.
If I'm going to New England (this only works if your destination is north of New York), I usually shunpike a lot of the NE tolls by going:
I-81 to I-84 and then only paying tolls on the last little bit of the Mass Pike. Very effective. Adds a little bit time though.
Quote from: sparker on July 10, 2019, 05:16:16 AM
Around here (Bay area in general) one quickly learns a couple of toll-avoiding idioms: if humanly possible, plan any trips that require any bay crossings so that you're heading east rather than west (tolls are one-way west over both the S.F. and San Pablo bays and one-way north over the Carquinez Straits or the Delta (i.e., Antioch Bridge). For a few years I had to make a trip to Sacramento about every three weeks to visit a subcontractor who rebuilt speaker cones for me; as it was more or less an all-day trip there and back, I did the "Nascar" routine: counterclockwise, using the I-580/205/5 (or, alternately CA 99) route up there and I-80/680 back to San Jose (this generally was "contraflow" as well regarding commute traffic except for SB I-680 between Walnut Creek & Dublin). Complete avoidance of tolled facilities on the way up, and free direction coming back.
One-way tolls generally have that capability, especially if there is a series of tolls to contend with, and especially if you are considering round trips.
To connect NJ with Brooklyn/Queens/Long Island, you pass through two sets of bridges (or Tunnels). The Port Authority bridges and tunnels connect NJ to Manhattan or Staten Island. The MTA (or NYCDOT) bridges and tunnels connecting Manhattan or Bronx or Staten Island to Brooklyn/Queens.
The Port Authority Bridges/Tunnels are one-way tolling (eastbound) and all are currently the same price. (Bridges further north up the Hudson River that are run by different agencies like the Tappan Zee are cheaper, the bridges north of the Tappan Zee are really cheap). So eastbound you may go out of your way to the Bear Mountain Bridge because it is cheap, but take the more direct PA bridge westbound since it's free.
Within NYC, the 4 East River bridges (Brooklyn, Manhattan, Williamsburg, Queensboro) are free - the other crossings are toll and the Verrazano is one-way toll (but at double the cost). So, if one were making a trip from NJ to LI, going through Staten Island, you will only pay the PA toll. Going through Manhattan and using an East River bridge, you will only pay the PA toll. Going through Manhattan and using a different East River crossing, you will pay two tolls, PA and MTA. Since Manhattan crossings would usually require busy surface streets, the Verrazano crossing eastbound is the preferred route for a lot of travel from NJ to LI. Going westbound, since the Verrazano toll is twice the other tolls, it is largely avoided. Taking a different MTA toll crossing (like the Midtown Tunnel or Triboro Bridge) would require paying the MTA toll. But taking one of the East River bridges would mean that the entire trip from LI to NJ, involving two water crossings but going through the heart of Manhattan, is entirely free, since the PA crossings are free in that direction. This is well known and many truckers are known to take a Manhattan Bridge-Canal Street-Holland Tunnel routing to avoid the tolls (which are very high for trucks). The congestion pricing schemes that should be put into effect in 2021 is an effort to avoid this toll avoidance.
------------------
With regards to the Bay Area, another favorite toll avoidance to go from SF to Sac is by taking CA-37, Sears Point Road. In that direction, the Golden Gate is free, so that is another way to avoid the Carquinez Strait/Delta toll crossings. It is probably preferred if you are on the west side of the Bay and too far north of the San Mateo Bridge to make the I-580/205/5 routing feasible.
On the Fictional threads, there are some people who complain about the lack of a freeway routing along CA-1 to connect the Golden Gate to San Mateo County. Going northbound, taking the existing 19th Avenue is the most direct way and is toll free, but you have to contend with multiple traffic signals. Oddly enough, though, going southbound there is an all-freeway bypass that actually has less toll than the direct routing. (Of course you do add mileage and possibly time, dependent on traffic.) From San Rafael, you can take I-580 and cross the upper SF Bay on the Richmond bridge for free and take I-580 to I-880 to CA-92 and cross the Bay again on the San Mateo bridge. You will pay toll on the San Mateo bridge, but the Bay crossings are always cheaper than the Golden Gate, plus you bypassed San Francisco and its surface streets.
[Normally bridges are so laden with traffic that it makes no sense to cross the same body of water twice. But it may be feasible in this instance.]
Quote from: sandwalk on July 10, 2019, 02:01:03 PM
Denver's expensive E-470. It's $22.55 for the whole length (approx. 45 miles). Even with Express Toll, it's $14.25.
Dang, it's cheaper to drive the 90-mile TX-130 bypass around Austin that's 80-85 mph.
Two from northern Mexico:
The northwestern bypass of Monterrey, Nuevo León, Mexico (https://goo.gl/maps/DBEodmikvH83VsBT9)
The free bypass had its last stoplight removed back in 2009 or so, and traffic generally flows at around 90 km/h. (I've only driven it on weekends, and maybe it's more congested on weekdays.) The toll bypass costs 197 pesos, which is more than 10 dollars. That's never been worth it to me. Now consider that the average hourly wage in Mexico is around 10 to 11 times less than that in the USA!
The toll road west of Saltillo, Coahuila, Mexico (https://goo.gl/maps/Uyy6T4ro9MMQ2hgcA)
The free road has no stoplights and only a handful of speed bumps. The speed bumps are all the easy 25-mph variety, too. Truck traffic can be heavy, but the highway is arrow-straight and level for the most part: passing is easy. The toll road, only 4½ miles shorter, costs 129 pesos, which is almost 7 dollars. Not worth it.
Quote from: sparker on July 10, 2019, 05:16:16 AM
Around here (Bay area in general) one quickly learns a couple of toll-avoiding idioms: if humanly possible, plan any trips that require any bay crossings so that you're heading east rather than west (tolls are one-way west over both the S.F. and San Pablo bays and one-way north over the Carquinez Straits or the Delta (i.e., Antioch Bridge). For a few years I had to make a trip to Sacramento about every three weeks to visit a subcontractor who rebuilt speaker cones for me; as it was more or less an all-day trip there and back, I did the "Nascar" routine: counterclockwise, using the I-580/205/5 (or, alternately CA 99) route up there and I-80/680 back to San Jose (this generally was "contraflow" as well regarding commute traffic except for SB I-680 between Walnut Creek & Dublin). Complete avoidance of tolled facilities on the way up, and free direction coming back.
In that vein:
When I used to live in the eastern part of Sacramento (2007-2014), I usually bypassed the Oakland area entirely to get to San Jose, by taking some variation of 99-4-5-205-580-84. Likewise, if I was dropping a friend off in the Atherton area, I would then head out of town via 84-Decoto/238-680-84-580-205-5-4-99.
For some parts of Fremont, using 237 from Milpitas to Mountain View works as a way to avoid the Dumbarton or San Mateo Bridge tolls heading towards San Mateo County.
Quote from: mrsman
On the Fictional threads, there are some people who complain about the lack of a freeway routing along CA-1 to connect the Golden Gate to San Mateo County. Going northbound, taking the existing 19th Avenue is the most direct way and is toll free, but you have to contend with multiple traffic signals. Oddly enough, though, going southbound there is an all-freeway bypass that actually has less toll than the direct routing. (Of course you do add mileage and possibly time, dependent on traffic.) From San Rafael, you can take I-580 and cross the upper SF Bay on the Richmond bridge for free and take I-580 to I-880 to CA-92 and cross the Bay again on the San Mateo bridge. You will pay toll on the San Mateo bridge, but the Bay crossings are always cheaper than the Golden Gate, plus you bypassed San Francisco and its surface streets.
I've done that before to get from Marin County to Menlo Park (580, 880, then 84 west). Any all-freeway routing from Marin to the Peninsula using 580 only works though if the MacArthur Maze and Eastshore Freeway aren't congested.
For that matter, the toll difference between the Golden Gate and the Bay crossings is only $1 or so (usually).
US-1 Toll bridge in Trenton NJ. Cars can detour up to Calhoun street easily and back down PA32 to meet US1, if you don't mind burning up a clutch merging onto US1 south.
Quote from: SteveG1988 on July 14, 2019, 04:16:37 PM
US-1 Toll bridge in Trenton NJ. Cars can detour up to Calhoun street easily and back down PA32 to meet US1, if you don't mind burning up a clutch merging onto US1 south.
Another option for that bridge is the Trenton makes bridge. When using that routing I don't turn left on pa-32, instead I continue straight and I eventually join in with us 1.
For a while this was my main routing between New York City and DC. Eventually I gave in to time constraints and avoid the entire Philly area by taking i-295. I now have to pay at the Delaware memorial bridge, but the toll is worth its to avoid Philly traffic.
Nexus 5X
I used to shunpike the I-95 Delaware toll plaza all the time. Tried that at the Tydings Bridge, but, well, that's hard to do.
Quote from: The Nature Boy on July 11, 2019, 09:45:00 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 05, 2019, 06:07:21 PM
Most of my friends who travel between Baltimore and the northeast shunpike the Delaware toll.
If I'm going to New England (this only works if your destination is north of New York), I usually shunpike a lot of the NE tolls by going:
I-81 to I-84 and then only paying tolls on the last little bit of the Mass Pike. Very effective. Adds a little bit time though.
My parents and I used to do that going to Maine. The ride through the Poconos and the Delaware Valley alone makes it worth it. And it's ANOTHER tri-state area that doesn't have as much traffic.
Quote from: mrsman on July 14, 2019, 05:45:10 PMEventually I gave in to time constraints and avoid the entire Philly area by taking i-295. I now have to pay at the Delaware memorial bridge, but the toll is worth its to avoid Philly traffic.
I-295 has its own traffic issues as well; mainly at the I-76/NJ 42 interchange, which has been exacerbated by the reconstruction/reconfiguration project that's been going on for a few years (it'll be nice when it's completed). I've seen southbound traffic back up as far north as the NJ 73 interchange (about 10 miles away) at times.
The other traffic hotspot is where I-295 & the NJ Turnpike (plus US 40) come together just prior to the Delaware Memorial Bridge. If one hits that area at the wrong time; there will be traffic back-ups along both roads (I-295 & the Turnpike).
Tried out the US-50, US-301, DE-1 routing on Sunday, and had no issues.
Was able to maintain 70 - 75 mph on US-50 out to the Bay Bridge, and 40-55 mph over the bridge, then back up to 70 - 75 mph up US-301.
It was not packed, but enough traffic that I was able to get with a "group" of traffic the entire way and maintain that 70 - 75 mph without standing out per se. I can say first hand -nobody- obeyed the 55 mph speed limit on the entire drive, and even at 70 - 75 mph, was still passed by traffic doing 75 - 85 mph.
US-301 through Maryland is a very high-quality roadway, has a large median, limited-access, and has an interstate cross section. The 55 mph speed limit is absurdly slow. Like said above, easily able to maintain 70 - 75 mph without any issues, sharp curves, blind intersections, etc.
Overall, the US-50 / US-301 overlap could be 60 mph, then US-301 north of there could be 65 mph or even 70 mph.
At the state line, they had a lane closed and a 45 mph speed limit and what looked like repaving operations, but once in Delaware, it opened back up straight onto the new US-301 toll road, back up to 65 mph and onto DE-1. The $4 toll wasn't an issue for a one-time trip. Probably worth it rather than taking back roads and through Middletown to DE-1. My only concern with the toll road is that you are charged $4 for crossing the state line, but if you choose to get off and stop at a restaurant, store, gas station, etc, you are charged an additional $1 for re-entering, but if you don't stop at all, you don't get double-charged. There needs to be a way that once you pay the $4, you aren't charged again. I had wanted to stop in Middletown for gas, but I did not because I did not want to be double-charged.
In Maryland, there were two signs 11 miles and 7 miles in advanced warning about the toll road in Delaware. No signage directing how to avoid it though, no "last exit before toll" signage, simply indicating there was a toll road ahead.
IMO, US-50 / US-301 was better than I-95 because it avoided Baltimore, it saved $8, and it avoided what looked like a lot of reported congestion on I-95 north of Baltimore. Crossing the Chesapeake Bay Bridge was also a nice bonus.
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 07, 2019, 03:18:40 PM
Quote from: skluth on July 07, 2019, 03:05:29 PM
I also regularly shunpiked the Chesapeake Expressway, but my trips to the Outer Banks were rare and done in off-peak hours so traffic was minimal.
I've always shunpiked the Expressway, except once I used it a few years back simply to try it out since I've never used it - and it's a nice highway but only 55 mph and not much faster than Business VA-168 during off-peak hours. I've also ended up using it during peak hours simply to not deal with any traffic and for a one time trip, I have no issues paying the $3.
During peak weekends in the summer, I would never pay the $8 toll it is now.
When you lived in the area, you mentioned around 2007, the toll was only $2 all times, including peak weekends. It's now $3 regular, and $8 during weekends in the summer.
Yeah, thanks to that $8 toll I always avoid the Expressway when traveling to the OBX during the summer. VA 168 Business has a 45-mph speed limit and typically doesn't have a whole lot of traffic (though traffic occasionally backs up at the stoplight at the end of the expressway), so it's worth it to me.
Driving to the east this weekend from SE WI and will be taking I-94 through MI (and then crossing S. ON) to avoid the horrible Indiana Toll Road. Avoiding the OH Turnpike is an extra plus. The Indiana Toll Road is constantly under construction; a construction project that often narrows I-80/90 (the main east-west route across the USA) to one freakin' lane in each direction. Summer traffic can be epic, even sitting in the middle of nowhere. Indiana absolutely sucks with thoughtlessly designed construction to begin with, but this one has been the worst. So, this one has nothing to do with the cost of the tolls, it has to do with condition of the road. And the IN Toll Road will be avoided both ways on this trip.
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on July 16, 2019, 01:34:15 PM
Driving to the east this weekend from SE WI and will be taking I-94 through MI (and then crossing S. ON) to avoid the horrible Indiana Toll Road. Avoiding the OH Turnpike is an extra plus. The Indiana Toll Road is constantly under construction; a construction project that often narrows I-80/90 (the main east-west route across the USA) to one freakin' lane in each direction. Summer traffic can be epic, even sitting in the middle of nowhere. Indiana absolutely sucks with thoughtlessly designed construction to begin with, but this one has been the worst. So, this one has nothing to do with the cost of the tolls, it has to do with condition of the road. And the IN Toll Road will be avoided both ways on this trip.
I-94 isn't much better.
Quote from: mrsman on July 14, 2019, 05:45:10 PM
Quote from: SteveG1988 on July 14, 2019, 04:16:37 PM
US-1 Toll bridge in Trenton NJ. Cars can detour up to Calhoun street easily and back down PA32 to meet US1, if you don't mind burning up a clutch merging onto US1 south.
Another option for that bridge is the Trenton makes bridge. When using that routing I don't turn left on pa-32, instead I continue straight and I eventually join in with us 1.
these are the same bridge. edit: i am the dumb.
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on July 16, 2019, 01:34:15 PM
Driving to the east this weekend from SE WI and will be taking I-94 through MI (and then crossing S. ON) to avoid the horrible Indiana Toll Road. Avoiding the OH Turnpike is an extra plus.
It's that easy to get through both Canadian and US Customs right now? I think I would take a few two lane non-freeway segments or a stoplight-infested four lane route through Indiana over going through Canada.
Quote from: odditude on July 19, 2019, 01:43:05 PM
Quote from: mrsman on July 14, 2019, 05:45:10 PM
Quote from: SteveG1988 on July 14, 2019, 04:16:37 PM
US-1 Toll bridge in Trenton NJ. Cars can detour up to Calhoun street easily and back down PA32 to meet US1, if you don't mind burning up a clutch merging onto US1 south.
Another option for that bridge is the Trenton makes bridge. When using that routing I don't turn left on pa-32, instead I continue straight and I eventually join in with us 1.
these are the same bridge.
Steve referred to the Calhoun Street Bridge; Mrsman referred to the Trenton Makes Bridge. The Trenton Makes Bridge directly parallel and next to US 1, and then there's the Calhoun Street Bridge about a 1 mile north of Trenton Makes. From NJ 29 or US 1, you can get to either bridge, then turn left and take PA 32 to US 1, or continue straight off the bridge and access US 1 further down the road.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 20, 2019, 12:38:53 PM
Quote from: odditude on July 19, 2019, 01:43:05 PM
Quote from: mrsman on July 14, 2019, 05:45:10 PM
Quote from: SteveG1988 on July 14, 2019, 04:16:37 PM
US-1 Toll bridge in Trenton NJ. Cars can detour up to Calhoun street easily and back down PA32 to meet US1, if you don't mind burning up a clutch merging onto US1 south.
Another option for that bridge is the Trenton makes bridge. When using that routing I don't turn left on pa-32, instead I continue straight and I eventually join in with us 1.
these are the same bridge.
Steve referred to the Calhoun Street Bridge; Mrsman referred to the Trenton Makes Bridge. The Trenton Makes Bridge directly parallel and next to US 1, and then there's the Calhoun Street Bridge about a 1 mile north of Trenton Makes. From NJ 29 or US 1, you can get to either bridge, then turn left and take PA 32 to US 1, or continue straight off the bridge and access US 1 further down the road.
yeah, had a stupid moment there. apologies.
it's extra embarrassing since i used to drive past there every day on 29 - my brain just melded the two and I was misremembering the "Trenton Makes" as being on the Calhoun St. bridge (and completely forgetting about the bridge it's actually on).
Quote from: Revive 755 on July 20, 2019, 12:22:36 PM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on July 16, 2019, 01:34:15 PM
Driving to the east this weekend from SE WI and will be taking I-94 through MI (and then crossing S. ON) to avoid the horrible Indiana Toll Road. Avoiding the OH Turnpike is an extra plus.
It's that easy to get through both Canadian and US Customs right now? I think I would take a few two lane non-freeway segments or a stoplight-infested four lane route through Indiana over going through Canada.
We waited less than ten minutes at US Customs at the Peace Bridge last month. Northbound a few days earlier we waited about 15 minutes at the Thousand Islands Bridge because there weren't enough lanes open. In both instances, we were at the Customs booth for less than two minutes.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 20, 2019, 05:53:33 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on July 20, 2019, 12:22:36 PM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on July 16, 2019, 01:34:15 PM
Driving to the east this weekend from SE WI and will be taking I-94 through MI (and then crossing S. ON) to avoid the horrible Indiana Toll Road. Avoiding the OH Turnpike is an extra plus.
It's that easy to get through both Canadian and US Customs right now? I think I would take a few two lane non-freeway segments or a stoplight-infested four lane route through Indiana over going through Canada.
We waited less than ten minutes at US Customs at the Peace Bridge last month. Northbound a few days earlier we waited about 15 minutes at the Thousand Islands Bridge because there weren't enough lanes open. In both instances, we were at the Customs booth for less than two minutes.
It also depends on if it is your first time. Your Virgin crossing both ways can take longer. Second time is like 5 minutes tops, I took the Queenston Lewiston back in march, was 5 mins each way once at the booth, 10 minutes wait into canada, 0 minute into USA.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 20, 2019, 05:53:33 PM
We waited less than ten minutes at US Customs at the Peace Bridge last month. Northbound a few days earlier we waited about 15 minutes at the Thousand Islands Bridge because there weren't enough lanes open.
I cross at the Buffalo/Niagara crossings all the time, which might be why the I-81/Thousand Islands crossing seems extremely antiquated to me. You can tell even by the quantity and type of questions they ask that they don't get much traffic compared to the crossings I'm used to. The bridges are only 2 lanes, and they don't even accept EZPass for the bridge toll - the entire experience feels like stepping 50 years back in time!
Quote from: webny99 on July 22, 2019, 10:37:59 AM
I cross at the Buffalo/Niagara crossings all the time, which might be why the I-81/Thousand Islands crossing seems extremely antiquated to me. You can tell even by the quantity and type of questions they ask that they don't get much traffic compared to the crossings I'm used to. The bridges are only 2 lanes, and they don't even accept EZPass for the bridge toll - the entire experience feels like stepping 50 years back in time!
They do now (https://www.wwnytv.com/2019/06/27/e-zpass-comes-thousand-islands-bridge/). US Customs is also upgrading their plaza, as is visible on street view (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.3412224,-75.9813105,3a,52y,351.19h,83.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6XXdATDFBzTIAMuarhRymA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).
The Canadian Plaza was just upgraded at the Thousands Islands Bridge as well. It's much nicer than the old pre-historic facility.
Quote from: vdeane on July 22, 2019, 12:46:07 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 22, 2019, 10:37:59 AM
they don't even accept EZPass for the bridge toll
They do now (https://www.wwnytv.com/2019/06/27/e-zpass-comes-thousand-islands-bridge/).
OK, so it hasn't even been a month yet. I figured it must be recent, as I last used that crossing about a year ago.
I actually haven't used the US crossing as much as the Canadian one, because on several occasions we've returned from the Kingston area via Wolfe Island (and thus crossed into the US at Cape Vincent instead). The US plaza at the Thousand Islands as I remember it may have been outdated, but there's no way it takes priority over Lewiston (which has a
major capacity shortage in addition to the aging facility), so I'm glad both are happening and not Thousand Islands at the expense of Lewiston.
The Thousand Islands Bridge did not accept E-ZPass when we crossed it on June 21. I was trying to remember the last time I'd paid a cash toll prior to then and I think it was in 2013 at the Oldtown Low Water Toll Bridge between West Virginia and Maryland.
The Toll Road to avoid is the Bay Bridge Toll Plaza given that its the most jammed road in the Bay Area.
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 16, 2019, 10:34:41 AM
Tried out the US-50, US-301, DE-1 routing on Sunday, and had no issues.
Was able to maintain 70 - 75 mph on US-50 out to the Bay Bridge, and 40-55 mph over the bridge, then back up to 70 - 75 mph up US-301.
It was not packed, but enough traffic that I was able to get with a "group" of traffic the entire way and maintain that 70 - 75 mph without standing out per se. I can say first hand -nobody- obeyed the 55 mph speed limit on the entire drive, and even at 70 - 75 mph, was still passed by traffic doing 75 - 85 mph.
US-301 through Maryland is a very high-quality roadway, has a large median, limited-access, and has an interstate cross section. The 55 mph speed limit is absurdly slow. Like said above, easily able to maintain 70 - 75 mph without any issues, sharp curves, blind intersections, etc.
Overall, the US-50 / US-301 overlap could be 60 mph, then US-301 north of there could be 65 mph or even 70 mph.
At the state line, they had a lane closed and a 45 mph speed limit and what looked like repaving operations, but once in Delaware, it opened back up straight onto the new US-301 toll road, back up to 65 mph and onto DE-1. The $4 toll wasn't an issue for a one-time trip. Probably worth it rather than taking back roads and through Middletown to DE-1. My only concern with the toll road is that you are charged $4 for crossing the state line, but if you choose to get off and stop at a restaurant, store, gas station, etc, you are charged an additional $1 for re-entering, but if you don't stop at all, you don't get double-charged. There needs to be a way that once you pay the $4, you aren't charged again. I had wanted to stop in Middletown for gas, but I did not because I did not want to be double-charged.
In Maryland, there were two signs 11 miles and 7 miles in advanced warning about the toll road in Delaware. No signage directing how to avoid it though, no "last exit before toll" signage, simply indicating there was a toll road ahead.
IMO, US-50 / US-301 was better than I-95 because it avoided Baltimore, it saved $8, and it avoided what looked like a lot of reported congestion on I-95 north of Baltimore. Crossing the Chesapeake Bay Bridge was also a nice bonus.
Used US-50 / US-301 / DE-1 on the return again between I-495 and I-295 / NJTP.. I probably won't be using that overall portion of the I-95 / US-301 corridor in the future anymore, this last trip was due to having to go through DC for something, my usual routing is simply US-13 to US-113 to DE-1 from Norfolk, but if I ever go up the I-64 to I-95 routing again, US-50 / US-301 / DE-1 will likely be my preferred routing unless of course it's a peak travel time with backups near the Bay Bridge.
It's 5-10 minutes slower, but there's overall less traffic, and north of the US-50 / US-301 split, the traffic is light and is easy to maintain 70 mph mostly because everybody else on the road, including a lot of trucks, is at least going 65 - 75 mph. Not to mention, you completely avoid Baltimore and heavy I-95 thru traffic, and the tolls are less on that route compared to I-95. The Chesapeake Bay Bridge also is a nice and interesting crossing as well, something I-95 does not feature. It's easy to jump from US-301 to DE-1 now thanks to the Middletown Bypass, and connecting from DE-1 to the NJTP & I-295 is an easy connection taking US-13 - also a place to stop for food and/or gas since that short stretch is arterial.
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 24, 2019, 07:05:39 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 16, 2019, 10:34:41 AM
Tried out the US-50, US-301, DE-1 routing on Sunday, and had no issues.
Was able to maintain 70 - 75 mph on US-50 out to the Bay Bridge, and 40-55 mph over the bridge, then back up to 70 - 75 mph up US-301.
It was not packed, but enough traffic that I was able to get with a "group" of traffic the entire way and maintain that 70 - 75 mph without standing out per se. I can say first hand -nobody- obeyed the 55 mph speed limit on the entire drive, and even at 70 - 75 mph, was still passed by traffic doing 75 - 85 mph.
US-301 through Maryland is a very high-quality roadway, has a large median, limited-access, and has an interstate cross section. The 55 mph speed limit is absurdly slow. Like said above, easily able to maintain 70 - 75 mph without any issues, sharp curves, blind intersections, etc.
Overall, the US-50 / US-301 overlap could be 60 mph, then US-301 north of there could be 65 mph or even 70 mph.
At the state line, they had a lane closed and a 45 mph speed limit and what looked like repaving operations, but once in Delaware, it opened back up straight onto the new US-301 toll road, back up to 65 mph and onto DE-1. The $4 toll wasn't an issue for a one-time trip. Probably worth it rather than taking back roads and through Middletown to DE-1. My only concern with the toll road is that you are charged $4 for crossing the state line, but if you choose to get off and stop at a restaurant, store, gas station, etc, you are charged an additional $1 for re-entering, but if you don't stop at all, you don't get double-charged. There needs to be a way that once you pay the $4, you aren't charged again. I had wanted to stop in Middletown for gas, but I did not because I did not want to be double-charged.
In Maryland, there were two signs 11 miles and 7 miles in advanced warning about the toll road in Delaware. No signage directing how to avoid it though, no "last exit before toll" signage, simply indicating there was a toll road ahead.
IMO, US-50 / US-301 was better than I-95 because it avoided Baltimore, it saved $8, and it avoided what looked like a lot of reported congestion on I-95 north of Baltimore. Crossing the Chesapeake Bay Bridge was also a nice bonus.
Used US-50 / US-301 / DE-1 on the return again between I-495 and I-295 / NJTP.. I probably won't be using that overall portion of the I-95 / US-301 corridor in the future anymore, this last trip was due to having to go through DC for something, my usual routing is simply US-13 to US-113 to DE-1 from Norfolk, but if I ever go up the I-64 to I-95 routing again, US-50 / US-301 / DE-1 will likely be my preferred routing unless of course it's a peak travel time with backups near the Bay Bridge.
It's 5-10 minutes slower, but there's overall less traffic, and north of the US-50 / US-301 split, the traffic is light and is easy to maintain 70 mph mostly because everybody else on the road, including a lot of trucks, is at least going 65 - 75 mph. Not to mention, you completely avoid Baltimore and heavy I-95 thru traffic, and the tolls are less on that route compared to I-95. The Chesapeake Bay Bridge also is a nice and interesting crossing as well, something I-95 does not feature. It's easy to jump from US-301 to DE-1 now thanks to the Middletown Bypass, and connecting from DE-1 to the NJTP & I-295 is an easy connection taking US-13 - also a place to stop for food and/or gas since that short stretch is arterial.
Totally agree on the 1/301/50 routing for anything between northern Delaware and the DC area. What a wonderful ride compared to dealing with I-95!
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 24, 2019, 07:47:35 AM
What a wonderful ride compared to dealing with I-95!
Agreed. I never tried that stretch of I-95 yet, and even with two opportunities, I chose to avoid it both times. Both times looking on Google Maps and Waze just showed orange and red spots in the Baltimore area and on the rural stretches north of there. Plus you have to pay more to deal with that mess? No thank you!
Quote from: bing101 on July 23, 2019, 08:29:07 PM
The Toll Road to avoid is the Bay Bridge Toll Plaza given that its the most jammed road in the Bay Area.
So what's your preferred route from, say, Oakland to the Mission district?
I wish NC 540 was never tolled. I hate toll roads! I'm glad I-95 was never tolled!
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 05, 2019, 06:10:59 PM
Most of the toll roads I use offer a significant time difference compared to the alternatives–for example, if I want to go out to Leesburg, the Dulles Toll Road/Dulles Greenway route is simply a lot faster than any other option such that the fairly hefty toll is worth it
VDOT is removing two of the red lights on VA-7, Cardinal Park Dr and Battlefield Pkwy, in the next two years, which means that the Greenway will only avoid one red light after 2021. I could see Lexington Dr being converted to right-in/out since there is easy access to the interchange at Ashburn Village Blvd. As it stands right now, there's only about a 2-3 minute difference between VA-28 and the Leesburg Bypass taking the Greenway vs VA-7 during off peak traffic times.
http://www.virginiadot.org/projects/northernvirginia/rt_7_at_battlefield_pkwy.asp
Quote from: byoungblood on July 31, 2019, 10:31:45 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 05, 2019, 06:10:59 PM
Most of the toll roads I use offer a significant time difference compared to the alternatives–for example, if I want to go out to Leesburg, the Dulles Toll Road/Dulles Greenway route is simply a lot faster than any other option such that the fairly hefty toll is worth it
VDOT is removing two of the red lights on VA-7, Cardinal Park Dr and Battlefield Pkwy, in the next two years, which means that the Greenway will only avoid one red light after 2021. I could see Lexington Dr being converted to right-in/out since there is easy access to the interchange at Ashburn Village Blvd. As it stands right now, there's only about a 2-3 minute difference between VA-28 and the Leesburg Bypass taking the Greenway vs VA-7 during off peak traffic times.
http://www.virginiadot.org/projects/northernvirginia/rt_7_at_battlefield_pkwy.asp
The few times I've headed up to Leesburg, I've always used VA-28 and VA-7. I took the toll road once, and saved at best 3-4 minutes.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 05, 2019, 12:56:15 PMWhen I go down to Delaware from NJ, many of my trips land me in Wilmington. Delaware Ave (DE 52) was my break-even point. If I was on that road or south, I'll take the Delaware Memorial Bridge and pay the $4 toll. If I was going to points north of that, I'd take the Commodore Barry Bridge and pay the $5 toll.
No doubt you know this but for those who may not know; the toll on the Delaware Memorial Bridge increased to $5 earlier this year, so there's no longer a
cost advantage for using this bridge over the Commodore Barry.
Quote from: tradephoric on July 05, 2019, 12:03:37 PM
On a recent road trip from Harrisburg PA to Youngstown OH we took the Pennsylvania turnpike and it cost $31 in tolls. Cutting up to I-80 from Harrisburg would have avoided the tolls and according to Google Maps would have only been 4 minutes slower. Spending $31 for a 4 minute shorter trip isn't worth it to me.
Later on in the trip going from Youngstown OH to Detroit we took the Ohio turnpike and paid roughly $11 in tolls. But avoiding those tolls would have tacked on an extra 31 minutes to the drive (plus the non-toll route takes you along a lot of 2-lane roads). Spending $11 for a 31 minute shorter trip is worth it to me.
While planning a for a road trip to Kentucky (staying somewhere between Lexington & Cincinnati depending on lodging prices) during my upcoming vacation; I did some routing & toll comparisons.
The quickest route, based on Google Maps would be to use the PA Turnpike (I-76) to New Stanton where I would follow I-70 into Ohio & pick up I-71 (via I-270) in Columbus & follow to Cincinnati & I-75 towards Lexington The E-ZPass toll for the Turnpike from Valley Forge/Exit 326 to New Stanton/Exit 75 is $25.70.
Another routing that avoids the PA Turnpike completely would be to use I-95 towards Baltimore (I would shunpike the $4 Delaware toll) and follow I-695 to I-70. From I-70, (the E-ZPass toll for the I-70/76 concurrency along the PA Turnpike is $9.60) I would take I-68 to I-79 in WV to I-64 and then follow I-64 towards Lexington and take I-75.
The calculated Google Maps time for the above-shunpike routing is just over an hour longer than the I-76 to I-70 routing. The return-trip would incur an $8 toll for the I-95 northbound Susquehanna River (Tydings Bridge) crossing in MD (avoiding the Delaware toll of course).
Using the PA Turnpike (I-76) only as far as Harrisburg East (I-283) would incur an $8.30 toll (E-ZPass). From there, one would use I-283 to I-83 to PA 581 to I-81 south to I-70 west to I-68 west and so forth. That routing, in reverse, is only a few minutes longer than the I-95 routing with only a $0.30 difference in tolls (if one avoids the $4 Delaware toll).
Based on the above, I'll probably use the fore-mentioned I-95/495/95/DE 896/SR 279/I-95/695/70/68/79/64/75 routing for the journey in and use I-75/64/79/68/70/81/PA 581/83/283/76/476 routing for my return trip.
If my lodging winds up being in or closer to Cincinnati, I may use I-79 north instead of south in WV (where I-68 ends) and follow that route to I-70.
Quote from: byoungblood on July 31, 2019, 10:31:45 AM
VDOT is removing two of the red lights on VA-7, Cardinal Park Dr and Battlefield Pkwy, in the next two years, which means that the Greenway will only avoid one red light after 2021. I could see Lexington Dr being converted to right-in/out since there is easy access to the interchange at Ashburn Village Blvd. As it stands right now, there's only about a 2-3 minute difference between VA-28 and the Leesburg Bypass taking the Greenway vs VA-7 during off peak traffic times.
The Dulles Greenway already had to be widened to 6 lanes 10 years ago, so the upgrades on VA-7 may actually help them, and to avoid the need for another widening program.
Any toll road that uses AET when you have a rental car. FYI rental companies charge a daily usage fee after the first toll is run through. According to Hertz, they say that the middle man must be paid as neither them or the state (or county agencies that run the facilities) sends out the unpaid toll notices or tracks the car's plates. The third party has all the rental cars tags on their computer databases and assumes the responsibility in getting the renter to pay the toll, so they get their cut.
That is why I did not clinch the Sam Houston or Hardy Toll Roads in Houston nor drove TX SH 130 further west even to see the 85 mph speed limit sign.
I've always disliked the northern part of the NJ Tpke; for no other reason than I find it boring, ugly, and depressing.
Quote from: mb2001 on July 31, 2019, 09:50:34 PM
I’ve always disliked the northern part of the NJ Tpke; for no other reason than I find it boring, ugly, and depressing.
I found one worse than that part along the Chemical Coast. Its not a toll road but go to Texas and drive SH 225 and you will find more industry than the Arthur Kill has from Perth Amboy (Sewaren technically for the NJ Turnpike) to Elizabeth.
Talk about boring, but back to tolls yes I lived in Union and Middlesex Counties in NJ and can verify your observation there. Though sometimes that road is most useful and worth taking despite the view it has.
Quote from: roadman65 on July 31, 2019, 09:41:08 PM
Any toll road that uses AET when you have a rental car. FYI rental companies charge a daily usage fee after the first toll is run through. According to Hertz, they say that the middle man must be paid as neither them or the state (or county agencies that run the facilities) sends out the unpaid toll notices or tracks the car's plates. The third party has all the rental cars tags on their computer databases and assumes the responsibility in getting the renter to pay the toll, so they get their cut.
That is why I did not clinch the Sam Houston or Hardy Toll Roads in Houston nor drove TX SH 130 further west even to see the 85 mph speed limit sign.
The one reason I hate AET. I like it for all other reasons besides this. When I visited California, I avoided toll roads like the plague. Some may have had toll booths still but did not take a chance.
If you had driven the part of US-183 that acts as the one way frontage roads to TX-130 while in Texas, you would have at least viewed the 85 mph sign. The speed limit on the "frontage roads" (which is really US-183 - 2 lanes in each direction) is still at least 65 mph though, so it's at least somewhat decent. There's also no stoplights or stop signs on the frontage roads, only side streets have to stop. And there's at least once instance where the frontage roads has its own ramp to the intersecting road and the frontage roads also cross over the intersecting road with TX-130.
Cross-posting from an older thread, figured it was pertinent.
Quote from: kphoger on May 01, 2018, 03:51:51 PM
Allow me to share my experience with pay-by-plate.
In 2010 or so, the Camino Colombia (TX-255) removed its toll booths. From that point on, you had to either (a) have a TxTag or (b) set up a prepaid "day pass" account. Option (b) is pay-by-plate, except that you never actually get a bill in the mail; the amount just comes out of the account.
We live in Kansas, we take annual trips to Mexico with multiple vehicles, and exactly what vehicles are going changes year to year. So I decided to set up a day pass account. I would then add the other person's vehicle (or people's vehicles, plural) onto my account in advance of travel each year. The following year, I would call and update the info: change my license plate on file if I had gotten a new one, remove last year's secondary vehicle(s) and add this year's. It was a little awkward, but the system worked.
Unbeknownst to me, however, there were a few times that I neglected to make sure all vehicle info was correct. That meant that, at those times, the gantry read a license plate for which it had no TxTag or day pass account to match. As Texas and Kansas did not share DMV info back then, there was no way for TxTag to send me a bill in the mail. And I had no idea, because I used the account very infrequently and only enquired of my balance once a year.
Then in 2014, we took TX-130 down from Georgetown to Seguin as part of our route. The last stretch of that is cashless so, for the first time, I decided to do pay-by-mail. After returning to the States, I got the expected bill from TxTag. And–here's the important part–it didn't just have those recent charges on it. No, suddenly TxTag was able to match all those missing tolls to a billing address. I ended up with toll charges from multiple years and multiple vehicles tacked on.
Quote from: kphoger on May 02, 2018, 04:37:03 PM
Hopefully you can agree that my situation was quite complicated, and it would have been much less complicated if I could have simply planned on being able to pay cash every time.
Quote from: kphoger on August 01, 2019, 03:17:17 PM
Cross-posting from an older thread, figured it was pertinent.
Quote from: kphoger on May 01, 2018, 03:51:51 PM
Allow me to share my experience with pay-by-plate.
In 2010 or so, the Camino Colombia (TX-255) removed its toll booths. From that point on, you had to either (a) have a TxTag or (b) set up a prepaid "day pass" account. Option (b) is pay-by-plate, except that you never actually get a bill in the mail; the amount just comes out of the account.
We live in Kansas, we take annual trips to Mexico with multiple vehicles, and exactly what vehicles are going changes year to year. So I decided to set up a day pass account. I would then add the other person's vehicle (or people's vehicles, plural) onto my account in advance of travel each year. The following year, I would call and update the info: change my license plate on file if I had gotten a new one, remove last year's secondary vehicle(s) and add this year's. It was a little awkward, but the system worked.
Unbeknownst to me, however, there were a few times that I neglected to make sure all vehicle info was correct. That meant that, at those times, the gantry read a license plate for which it had no TxTag or day pass account to match. As Texas and Kansas did not share DMV info back then, there was no way for TxTag to send me a bill in the mail. And I had no idea, because I used the account very infrequently and only enquired of my balance once a year.
Then in 2014, we took TX-130 down from Georgetown to Seguin as part of our route. The last stretch of that is cashless so, for the first time, I decided to do pay-by-mail. After returning to the States, I got the expected bill from TxTag. And–here's the important part–it didn't just have those recent charges on it. No, suddenly TxTag was able to match all those missing tolls to a billing address. I ended up with toll charges from multiple years and multiple vehicles tacked on.
Quote from: kphoger on May 02, 2018, 04:37:03 PM
Hopefully you can agree that my situation was quite complicated, and it would have been much less complicated if I could have simply planned on being able to pay cash every time.
I don't know how it was then, but I know at least on TX-130 you can go to https://www.txtag.org/vector/invoices/invoiceInquiry.do and pay your toll online without waiting to get in the mail. It's a lot quicker and easy to do IMO. That's what I've done in the past. Just enter your license plate and it will find recent transactions and you pay it.
Quote from: sprjus4 on August 01, 2019, 07:16:36 PM
I don't know how it was then, but I know at least on TX-130 you can go to https://www.txtag.org/vector/invoices/invoiceInquiry.do and pay your toll online without waiting to get in the mail. It's a lot quicker and easy to do IMO. That's what I've done in the past. Just enter your license plate and it will find recent transactions and you pay it.
Wouldn't have done me any good, even if that were a thing. I didn't know I had any unpaid tolls to begin with and, if I had, a bunch of them wouldn't have been under my own license plate number(s).
Quote from: Flint1979 on July 18, 2019, 10:12:17 PM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on July 16, 2019, 01:34:15 PM
Driving to the east this weekend from SE WI and will be taking I-94 through MI (and then crossing S. ON) to avoid the horrible Indiana Toll Road. Avoiding the OH Turnpike is an extra plus. The Indiana Toll Road is constantly under construction; a construction project that often narrows I-80/90 (the main east-west route across the USA) to one freakin' lane in each direction. Summer traffic can be epic, even sitting in the middle of nowhere. Indiana absolutely sucks with thoughtlessly designed construction to begin with, but this one has been the worst. So, this one has nothing to do with the cost of the tolls, it has to do with condition of the road. And the IN Toll Road will be avoided both ways on this trip.
I-94 isn't much better.
I-94 through MI is aggrivating because it's still 4 lane as if it's 1972 and trucks/semis have to go slower than the rest of us - resulting in the occasional mega rat pack. Still, it was way better than the massive sh!t show that is the Indiana Toll Road (where I was stuck in a 20 mile backup at 9 pm on a Friday last summer). Anyhow we got through nicely in both directions using 94, then M-14 to 96 to the Ambassador Bridge.
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on August 15, 2019, 12:06:08 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on July 18, 2019, 10:12:17 PM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on July 16, 2019, 01:34:15 PM
Driving to the east this weekend from SE WI and will be taking I-94 through MI (and then crossing S. ON) to avoid the horrible Indiana Toll Road. Avoiding the OH Turnpike is an extra plus. The Indiana Toll Road is constantly under construction; a construction project that often narrows I-80/90 (the main east-west route across the USA) to one freakin' lane in each direction. Summer traffic can be epic, even sitting in the middle of nowhere. Indiana absolutely sucks with thoughtlessly designed construction to begin with, but this one has been the worst. So, this one has nothing to do with the cost of the tolls, it has to do with condition of the road. And the IN Toll Road will be avoided both ways on this trip.
I-94 isn't much better.
I-94 through MI is aggrivating because it's still 4 lane as if it's 1972 and trucks/semis have to go slower than the rest of us - resulting in the occasional mega rat pack. Still, it was way better than the massive sh!t show that is the Indiana Toll Road (where I was stuck in a 20 mile backup at 9 pm on a Friday last summer). Anyhow we got through nicely in both directions using 94, then M-14 to 96 to the Ambassador Bridge.
Yeah I-94 really needs an upgrade throughout entire state. The last 20 miles to Port Huron are probably ok but the rest of it is pretty obsolete especially some of those interchanges in Detroit like at the Lodge. Yeah taking M-14 to I-96 is in fact a better route than staying on I-94 even though you cross I-94 again.
Quote from: TheStranger on July 05, 2019, 01:16:21 PM
If I'm going to Sacramento from SF, I sometimes opt to take 101 to 37 to 80 - about 15-20 miles longer but allows me to bypass congestion around the MacArthur Maze and the Eastshore Freeway segment of I-80, all while avoiding the $6 Carquinez Bridge toll. No real way to avoid toll going to SF from Sacramento though without driving all the way into the San Jose area.
I always liked I-80W-I-680S-CA-24W and across the Bay bridge. Seems like people were less nutty on the Northern reaches of I-680 than the equivalent piece of I-80 and I liked seeing the mothballed ships in Suisun Bay and I love all of 24.
Quote from: Revive 755 on July 20, 2019, 12:22:36 PM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on July 16, 2019, 01:34:15 PM
Driving to the east this weekend from SE WI and will be taking I-94 through MI (and then crossing S. ON) to avoid the horrible Indiana Toll Road. Avoiding the OH Turnpike is an extra plus.
It's that easy to get through both Canadian and US Customs right now? I think I would take a few two lane non-freeway segments or a stoplight-infested four lane route through Indiana over going through Canada.
Just joined AARoads so I know I'm coming to this late.
I did this in June - Chicago to upstate NY both ways via Ontario. With the caveat that my wife and I have Nexus, the only issue was the pathetically slow toll collection both ways at the Blue Water Bridge (Mich DOT collects going to Canada and the owner of the Canadian half collects going to the U.S.). It made me wonder if they're deliberately slow to meter traffic into Customs/Immigration on the other side.
EB mid-afternoon on a Tuesday, about a two to three minute backup at the BWB toll booth, then once across the bridge, no line at the Nexus lane, two to three quick questions and on my way. At the Queenston-Lewiston Bridge early evening, no toll that direction and no lines at all at CBP (no Nexus at that hour but right up to an inspector). Again, two to three questions and I was on my way.
WB on a Sunday, using the Peace Bridge into Canada, no line at the Nexus lane, one question via a remote inspector (booth was unmanned), then through the toll booth with EZ-Pass and we were on our way.
But the real mess was at the BWB. Long line for the toll booth which seemed to be processing about two cars per minute per lane (two were open). Then the lane we were in closed and re-opened a minute later as an automated lane (credit cards and exact change only IIRC). We crept forward and then it came to a total stop. Finally forced our way into the adjacent manned lane and saw that a bridge worker was trying to assist someone in backing out of the automated lane. No idea why but the only logical explanation would be didn't have exact change. Given that the lane had just changed and that there was a worker there assisting the back up move, wouldn't just getting change for the driver from the manned booth have been faster? Finally through in about 10 minutes.
One oddity is that they have the toll booth set up as cars on the left and trucks on the right but once on the bridge, CBP wants trucks on the left and cars on the right with the middle "Restricted Lane" for Nexus and Buses only. So a giant weaving area coming out of the toll booth. Given we were the only car I saw in the middle lane and there was no one waiting at the Nexus booth, not a lot of Nexus use on a Sunday afternoon. A couple of quick questions and we were on our way.