The proposed Mid-States Corridor now has a Tier 1 study underway. The proposed project, which is the first to be funded by a Regional Development Authority as authorized by the Indiana General Assembly in 2017, would connect I-165 in Kentucky with I-64 and I-69.
Lochmueller Group is doing the study, which should be done in 2021.
http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/story/40772909/proposed-southwest-indiana-highway-project-gains-speed
A map is available of the preliminary alternatives at the above link. The project is divided into three sections, which are as follows:
Section 1 - KY State Line to I-64
1A - Existing US 231 through Spencer County, which would be upgraded as needed
Section 2 - I-64 to Haysville
2A - Western bypass of Huntingburg and Jasper, north to SR 56 at Haysville
2B - Follows US 231 through Huntingburg and Jasper, north to Haysville
2C - Eastern bypass of Huntingburg and Jasper, north to Haysville
Section 3 - Haysville to either Petersburg, Washington, Crane, Bedford or Mitchell
3A - Follows SR 56 west from Jasper to I-69 at Petersburg
3B - New terrain route NW from Haysville to I-69 at Washington
3C - Follows US 231 north from Haysville, western bypass of Loogootee, and 231 north to I-69 at Crane
3D - Follows US 231 north from Haysville, eastern bypass of Loogootee, and 231 north to I-69 at Crane
3E - Follows US 231 north from Haysville, eastern bypass of Loogootee, and US 50/150 and SR 450 to SR 37 at Bedford
3F - Follows SR 56 east from Haysville through French Lick/West Baden Springs, NE over new terrain to SR 37 at Mitchell
From driving this area over 40 years, the Jasper/Huntingburg connection to I-64 should have been addressed 30+ years ago due to the various factories, etc in this area. In the 70s a super two was put in between the two towns and bypassed some auto dealerships, but did nothing whatsoever to lessen the traffic in Huntingburg or Jasper.
The less expensive way to connect it to I-69 would be either going on highway 56 or straight to Washington (a lot of the terrain is relatively flat). That being said, perhaps the best benefit would be to run it up near French Lick (got to have those tourism/casino tax dollars) and hook up near Mitchell or do an east bypass of Loogootee and shoot it along US 50, which would benefit that rural area and enhance the US-50 corridor across the state (but you are building through the Hoosier National Forest and the work might mess up Bluespring Caverns near Bedford).
I can see doing a bypass of Huntingburg and Jasper, but six-laning the rest of I-65 and I-70 should be a much bigger priority than converting any other parts of 231 to freeway.
Quote from: cabiness42 on July 15, 2019, 03:02:25 PM
I can see doing a bypass of Huntingburg and Jasper, but six-laning the rest of I-65 and I-70 should be a much bigger priority than converting any other parts of 231 to freeway.
The RDA has to figure out how to fund it. My understanding is that these authorities are a way to keep from eating up money intended for other things. I agree 65 and 70 need to be done ASAP.
Quote from: Life in Paradise on July 15, 2019, 12:21:30 PM
From driving this area over 40 years, the Jasper/Huntingburg connection to I-64 should have been addressed 30+ years ago due to the various factories, etc in this area. In the 70s a super two was put in between the two towns and bypassed some auto dealerships, but did nothing whatsoever to lessen the traffic in Huntingburg or Jasper.
The less expensive way to connect it to I-69 would be either going on highway 56 or straight to Washington (a lot of the terrain is relatively flat). That being said, perhaps the best benefit would be to run it up near French Lick (got to have those tourism/casino tax dollars) and hook up near Mitchell or do an east bypass of Loogootee and shoot it along US 50, which would benefit that rural area and enhance the US-50 corridor across the state (but you are building through the Hoosier National Forest and the work might mess up Bluespring Caverns near Bedford).
At first look, I think it's gonna be hard to pick a route. None of them will be cheap. I think the eastern options are going to fall away because of cost and environmental factors that just don't exist going west, northwest or north from Dubois County.
Quote from: Life in Paradise on July 15, 2019, 12:21:30 PM
From driving this area over 40 years, the Jasper/Huntingburg connection to I-64 should have been addressed 30+ years ago due to the various factories, etc in this area. In the 70s a super two was put in between the two towns and bypassed some auto dealerships, but did nothing whatsoever to lessen the traffic in Huntingburg or Jasper.
The less expensive way to connect it to I-69 would be either going on highway 56 or straight to Washington (a lot of the terrain is relatively flat). That being said, perhaps the best benefit would be to run it up near French Lick (got to have those tourism/casino tax dollars) and hook up near Mitchell or do an east bypass of Loogootee and shoot it along US 50, which would benefit that rural area and enhance the US-50 corridor across the state (but you are building through the Hoosier National Forest and the work might mess up Bluespring Caverns near Bedford).
You are absolutely correct a bypass should've been completed decades ago. With that said, I feel a 4-lane bypass through Dubois county would be sufficient, then super-two lane 231 from haysville to I-69. I just don't see the need build a 4 lane any further. The cost and difficulty to do so would be too high.
I don't see the need for the project to go beyond a bypass of Jasper either unless their goal is to push a corridor such as they did in Northern Indiana with US 24 and US 30. In that case, the corridor would be NE or N. I don't think that there is enough traffic for it to be warranted otherwise.
Quote from: Life in Paradise on July 15, 2019, 07:37:55 PM
I don't see the need for the project to go beyond a bypass of Jasper either unless their goal is to push a corridor such as they did in Northern Indiana with US 24 and US 30. In that case, the corridor would be NE or N. I don't think that there is enough traffic for it to be warranted otherwise.
Nowhere in what I've read on this project do they call it a freeway, at least not yet. I believe a good Super 2, or a 4 lane with at-grade intersections like 231 in Spencer County, is the way to go.
Personally, given the recent development of Crane and its surrounding area, I'd take the thing straight north and tie in at I-69 there.
EDIT: Here is an article that really nicely explains what they're aiming for with this corridor ...
https://www.duboiscountyfreepress.com/midstate-corridor-updates-and-explanations/
It's worth nothing that a different "Northwest" routing (parallel to and just north of IN 56 and IN 356) was proposed 5 years ago as part of the "I-67" proposal (https://www.duboiscountyfreepress.com/new-dubois-county-highway-considered-a-good-project/#lightbox/).
Quote
Nowhere in what I've read on this project do they call it a freeway, at least not yet. I believe a good Super 2, or a 4 lane with at-grade intersections like 231 in Spencer County, is the way to go.
Personally, given the recent development of Crane and its surrounding area, I'd take the thing straight north and tie in at I-69 there.
EDIT: Here is an article that really nicely explains what they're aiming for with this corridor ...
https://www.duboiscountyfreepress.com/midstate-corridor-updates-and-explanations/
At some point I expect to see a push from the French Lick/Paoli businesses to have the road run through their area before going up to Orleans/Mitchell on 37. They will look at the road as an extension of current 37 and a direct route to Indianapolis customers (Paoli Peaks-ski resort, French Lick Springs Casino).
I also looked at the timetable, and they have a three year time looking at the first phase. While they are doing this, I-69 will be well into the construction between Martinsville and Indianapolis, perhaps even in the final phase of hooking into I-465. One project finishes, time to get another one. (Forgetting that the Ohio River Bridge for I-69 still looms).
I kind of chuckled when they called Jasper and Huntingsburg "economic powerhouses".
The biggest bang for the buck would be to upgrade US231 to US50.
Why they would consider IN-450 (old US-50) as an upgrade option is beyond me unless they think it will bring new connectivity from the south to Bedford.
Unless GM Powertrain makes trannys for the plant in Bowling Green, I can't see any other reason.
Unfortunately Bedford is dying. They have lost 3 railroads and only have US 50 and IN-37 from the north.
Quote from: Life in Paradise on July 16, 2019, 12:59:26 PM
Quote
Nowhere in what I've read on this project do they call it a freeway, at least not yet. I believe a good Super 2, or a 4 lane with at-grade intersections like 231 in Spencer County, is the way to go.
Personally, given the recent development of Crane and its surrounding area, I'd take the thing straight north and tie in at I-69 there.
EDIT: Here is an article that really nicely explains what they're aiming for with this corridor ...
https://www.duboiscountyfreepress.com/midstate-corridor-updates-and-explanations/
At some point I expect to see a push from the French Lick/Paoli businesses to have the road run through their area before going up to Orleans/Mitchell on 37. They will look at the road as an extension of current 37 and a direct route to Indianapolis customers (Paoli Peaks-ski resort, French Lick Springs Casino).
I also looked at the timetable, and they have a three year time looking at the first phase. While they are doing this, I-69 will be well into the construction between Martinsville and Indianapolis, perhaps even in the final phase of hooking into I-465. One project finishes, time to get another one. (Forgetting that the Ohio River Bridge for I-69 still looms).
I'm a little perplexed that this group of local officials in southern Indiana are undertaking a Tier I EIS for a potential I-67, as from what I've read previously on the subject is that it appears to me that the FHWA and INDOT are not exactly onboard with the idea of building another interstate in the area. So how do these local officials intend to complete their EIS, when an EIS normally requires a federal agency sponsor (in this case, the FHWA)?
^ EIS's don't necessarily need a Federal or even state agency sponsor. Coordination with, sure, but I know of EIS's in Minnesota where the RGU (Responsible Government Unit) was at the county-level.
In this case, my guess is this regional development authority that covers the Midstate Corridor is the primary EIS sponsor...it appears state legislation passed in 2017 allows such.
Quote from: froggie on July 17, 2019, 08:06:28 AM
^ EIS's don't necessarily need a Federal or even state agency sponsor. Coordination with, sure, but I know of EIS's in Minnesota where the RGU (Responsible Government Unit) was at the county-level.
In this case, my guess is this regional development authority that covers the Midstate Corridor is the primary EIS sponsor...it appears state legislation passed in 2017 allows such.
Exactly. The RDA is paying for it - $7 million coming from cities, counties and interested parties (companies and so forth) along the route. INDOT is working with them on the study, but the local group is covering the cost.
Quote from: edwaleni on July 16, 2019, 01:40:55 PM
I kind of chuckled when they called Jasper and Huntingsburg "economic powerhouses".
The biggest bang for the buck would be to upgrade US231 to US50.
Why they would consider IN-450 (old US-50) as an upgrade option is beyond me unless they think it will bring new connectivity from the south to Bedford.
Unless GM Powertrain makes trannys for the plant in Bowling Green, I can't see any other reason.
Unfortunately Bedford is dying. They have lost 3 railroads and only have US 50 and IN-37 from the north.
Well, they really kind of
are economic powerhouses. Outside of Vanderburgh and Gibson counties, Dubois County has more industry than any other county in SW Indiana.
As I said before, I HIGHLY doubt any of the eastern/northeastern routes make the final cut. I can't imagine anyone wanting to take on an I-69-type environmental battle again, which I think you'd find whether you went up 450 or 50.
GM in Bedford makes parts for just about every car the General builds. In fact, they invested $127 million just 4 years ago to make big improvements to the plant for future products. That said, I don't believe it would be worth the investment in a new highway just on the basis of shipping parts to Bowling Green for a car that may or may not sell 20,000 units a year going forward.
Given how busy I-65 is in Kentucky between Bowling Green and Louisville, I don't see a problem with a bypass to points north for I-65. Whether that's called I-67 or not, that's anyone's guess. Unfortunately to get to I-69, it really has to go further west than would liked. Hey, you can shunpike the Louisville bridge at Owensboro - that makes all those billions worth it, right? :-D
This corridor should not be an Interstate IMO. I think they should just keep it US 231. Especially if the entire corridor is not built to freeway standards.
I attended Monday's meeting in Washington.
There was not much real information provided, only an invitation to comment and some one-on-one conversations.
You can get as much by visiting https://midstatescorridor.com/mapping/ (https://midstatescorridor.com/mapping/).
The mapping throws in some additional study corridors, adding;
- US 50 from Loogootee to Bedford
- US50/ SR60 from Loogootee to Mitchell
- A southern approach to French Lick
- Wider study area from Mitchell to Orleans
- A southern approach to Petersburg (staying on SR56 saves building a new exchange to I69)
- Western Jasper to Washington (roughly following SR257)
I can also echo the previous statement that there is no presumption this is an interstate study. In fact, I would assume the target of ROD by Summer 2021 would preclude any proposal for an Interstate.
First, I'd say forget the new terrain through Southern Daviess County over reclaimed coal mines.
Personally, I don't see much economic value added by the western routes to Petersburg or Washington. These are only appealing because they are shorter distances for road improvements.
SR257 to Washington, maybe. But as drawn, it isolates the fast growing north side of Jasper and would likely add a requirement for a new terrain east/west corridor to somewhere around Ireland to remedy this defect.
There's been a call to clean up US 231 for years. A bypass East or West of Loogootee should only need 3 or 4 miles of new terrain. The rest should be straitened, leveled and shouldered. I know, easier said than done, but no other proposed routes would be easy either.
Likewise, updates to US 50 have been discussed for years, but I don't see it as productive to this project.
SR60, SR450? I don't know where those come from. Just adding crazy routes to make the final selection look good?
French lick is interesting in a few other ways. A new terrain from French Lick to Orleans/Mitchell would also double as an extension of SR145 and cut travel time from points north to the casinos and tourist attractions including Patoka Lake.
My money is on a mix super 2/3/4 lane improvements to US231.
However I won't be surprised by similar improvements of SR56 to French Lick and 10 to 13 miles of new terrain from French Lick to the Orleans/Mitchell area. For those questioning environmental impact: SR145 was build with similar "concerns", so it can be done. The other side note: what would this mean to the routing of SR37 through Paoli?
I also could see the French Lick/Paoli option gaining ground since you have the two large casinos there, other tourist operations (Paoli Peaks), and some manufacturing in the area. That would tie in with the IN-37 corridor that ends its four lane in Mitchell and would be a significant mileage away from the I-69 corridor so there would be better highway service to other backward areas. I would think the super two with turn/hill passing lanes would be sufficient, except for the I-64 to Jasper (including the bypass) area, and that should be 4 lane. That stretch should have been done prior to I-69 being built.
There was a Paoli bypass project (INDOT even went so far as to number it as SR 237) on the books several years ago, but I don't know what ever happened to it.
As I'm sure we are all aware by now, the Tier 1 study is underway for the Midstates Corridor. Nothing new there... but I was curious the other day and got onto the INDOT's current projects website to see if I could find anything else interesting. Sure enough, I did.
https://calendar.in.gov/site/indot/event/public-hearing---us-231-intersection-improvement-at-sr-70-and-cr-800-north-in-spencer-county/
This link sends you to the INDOT website and shows a meeting that was held 2 days ago about adding MORE J-turns on US 231 south of I 64, at the intersection of IN 70 in Chrisney. Now my thought is, if they are planning to convert that stretch of highway to an interstate-standard stretch of road in the near future, why would they go to the trouble of adding something that will just get in their way in the future? What do you all think about this?
Quote from: royo6022 on October 25, 2019, 05:46:29 PM
As I'm sure we are all aware by now, the Tier 1 study is underway for the Midstates Corridor. Nothing new there... but I was curious the other day and got onto the INDOT's current projects website to see if I could find anything else interesting. Sure enough, I did.
https://calendar.in.gov/site/indot/event/public-hearing---us-231-intersection-improvement-at-sr-70-and-cr-800-north-in-spencer-county/
This link sends you to the INDOT website and shows a meeting that was held 2 days ago about adding MORE J-turns on US 231 south of I 64, at the intersection of IN 70 in Chrisney. Now my thought is, if they are planning to convert that stretch of highway to an interstate-standard stretch of road in the near future, why would they go to the trouble of adding something that will just get in their way in the future? What do you all think about this?
I don't normally see INDOT in this area of the state thinking long term, but short term (I think those people are located elsewhere in Indiana). The other side of it is that they aren't serious about upgrading US-231 to full freeway status anytime soon. I would be surprised to see any major change to that stretch in the next 20 years. About the best to wish for is a four lane extension to Jasper (which was needed back in the 80s).
https://duboiscountyherald.com/b/public-meetings-set-for-corridor-route-options
"The meetings are scheduled for Tuesday, Feb. 18 at Loogootee High School; Wednesday, Feb. 19, at Bedford Middle School; and Thursday, Feb. 20, at Jasper Middle School."
Saw an article recently stating that some officials in the French Lick/West Baden area were really trying to push for the proposed Route O (Bedford-Mitchell East Route).
In my opinion, that's probably the worst route to choose when keeping efficiency in mind for who will be using this road. Also, Route O looks like it would be cutting through a lot of forests and hills given the terrain in the Orange County area.
Quote from: royo6022 on February 21, 2020, 12:35:19 PM
Saw an article recently stating that some officials in the French Lick/West Baden area were really trying to push for the proposed Route O (Bedford-Mitchell East Route).
In my opinion, that's probably the worst route to choose when keeping efficiency in mind for who will be using this road. Also, Route O looks like it would be cutting through a lot of forests and hills given the terrain in the Orange County area.
On the other side of things, it puts a direct SR 37 route connector around Bedford, Mitchell, French Lick (for the casino fans) to Jasper. If they did this alternative, I would rather than route US 50 on I-69 to create a new interchange at SR 54, and shoot US50 down to Bedford or around the north side of Bedford. I'm one of those that thinks that the US 50 corridor should be 4 lanes through Central Southern Indiana.
Here is a link to the Inside Indiana Business article previously referenced about the French Lick Mid-States Alternative Route O - https://www.insideindianabusiness.com/story/41708707/public-hearings-for-midstates-corridor-project? An independent impact study for Route O (formerly Route 3F) has been conducted by the Indiana University Public Policy Institute and GINOVUS - it is referenced in the IIB coverage and can be downloaded at http://www.frenchlickparkwaycoalition.com/
Illinois was considering 4 laning 50 from Olney to Indiana and dropped it mysteriously in 2017. However a bypass of Lebanon is fully funded. Illinois does have the ROW for all but 30 miles. I had speculated it may have had something to Do with Indiana. Also traffic has been declining
Anyway we have been discussing in Southern Illinois notes.
Current traffic demand in south central Indiana has shifted to a north-south demand cycle.
Traffic between Vincennes and Seymour is not what it was in prior years. When US-50 was a pre-interstate arterial between Cincy and St Louis, it handled a large amount of regional east-west traffic. This has declined as the small industrial base moved to points closer to I-70 or I-64. North Vernon got a bypass due to the location of several suppliers relative to the Honda plant to the north.
The demand on US-50 from Olney to Vincennes is driven mostly by the Walmart Distro Center there and the prison in Lawrenceville. That center supplies Wal Mart's in south central Illinois and Indiana.
Anything below US-50 is going to Kentucky and anything above it going via Indianapolis. This leaves regional traffic to use I-69/I-74/US-41/IN-37 and now an updated US-231.
Got it. Also for St Louis Cincy it's not much shorter . Someone posted that years ago. Also 50 was out on the Illinois freeway system because of that. It has 4 lane ROW. For all but 30 miles. Also Illinois looked at 50 and Illinois 1 corridors in the sixties without looking at Indiana.
Quote from: 3467 on February 26, 2020, 05:49:53 PM
Got it. Also for St Louis Cincy it's not much shorter . Someone posted that years ago. Also 50 was out on the Illinois freeway system because of that. It has 4 lane ROW. For all but 30 miles. Also Illinois looked at 50 and Illinois 1 corridors in the sixties without looking at Indiana.
Yes, I think the difference in the Cincy to St Louis drive, there is currently only a difference of some 45 miles between US-50 and going by Indy.
However if US-50 was modernized on the entire route, I think the mileage gap would broaden somewhat in favor of US-50. But with these somewhat circuitous bypasses (like around Washington and North Vernon) and odd routings due to heritage rights of way (between Seymour & Loogootee) there are fewer and fewer opportunities to improve it.
The original interstate plan had it following US-150 east to Louisville which follows the old Buffalo Lick Trace. That would have routed Cincy-St Louis traffic that way instead of by Indy.
(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/hoosiertimes.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/3/4e/34e76649-799e-5c59-9dad-75ca74685a4b/5c0707ac731a5.image.jpg)
Maybe if Interstate 64 had been built along this corridor, US 460 would still continue to St. Louis, and would not have been truncated to Frankfort, KY.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 27, 2020, 03:57:56 PM
Maybe if Interstate 64 had been built along this corridor, US 460 would still continue to St. Louis, and would not have been truncated to Frankfort, KY.
Evansville, IN and Mount Vernon, IL successfully lobbied hard, and won, getting the I-64 St Louis <-> Louisville Interstate Corridor pushed to the current "southern" route of roughly Old US 460
Vincennes, IN and Olney, IL were not successful, in lobbying to keep I-64 on the early proposed US 50 (IL)/US 150 (IN) "northern" route
Quote from: ilpt4u on February 28, 2020, 08:25:00 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 27, 2020, 03:57:56 PM
Maybe if Interstate 64 had been built along this corridor, US 460 would still continue to St. Louis, and would not have been truncated to Frankfort, KY.
Evansville, IN and Mount Vernon, IL successfully lobbied hard, and won, getting the I-64 St Louis <-> Louisville Interstate Corridor pushed to the current "southern" route of roughly Old US 460
Vincennes, IN and Olney, IL were not successful, in lobbying to keep I-64 on the early proposed US 50 (IL)/US 150 (IN) "northern" route
Evansville had more clout during the 1960s than perhaps even now with Vance Hartke as one of Indiana's senators and the city had a significantly larger population. Although it would be further out of the way of the direct line between Louisville and St. Louis, what if they had been successful in moving the road even further south such as coming in on the south side of Mt. Vernon, IL from the west, and going directly to Evansville (perhaps rolling by Carmi, IL instead of 15 miles north, and then putting an expressway straight through Evansville as they did with the Lloyd Expressway? Indiana wouldn't have had to pony up all those millions in the 80s for that expressway or I-164. Then KY could have made a plea for a I-164 from I-64 in Southern Indiana to Owensboro (which could have been what is now US 231).
https://www.insideindianabusiness.com/story/44084011/holcomb-announces-dollar475m-in-infrastructure-projects
"The state will invest $75 million for the design and construction of additional travel lanes, passing lanes and intersection improvements at specific locations along a 48-mile stretch of U.S. 231 between I-64 and I-69. The governor's office says the improvements will "significantly reduce" congestion in the Jasper and Huntingburg areas.
Construction is expected to begin by late 2022."
The commissioner says the planned Mid-States Corridor project, which would run from the Ohio River through Dubois County and connect to I-69, played a factor in the decision to make the announced improvements. The project team is currently working to complete a Tier 1 Draft Environmental Impact Study, which will also identify a preferred route that could involve U.S. 231.
"That helped us identify some of these projects that may have not been on our radar before the Tier 1 began, and so it identified some needs that we need to address today and so that's why we're happy to make this announcement because we know long-term, regardless of a bypass or a new road or new corridor, these improvements must be made."
The governor announced the projects Friday during the Southwest Indiana Chamber of Commerce's annual "Lunch with the Governor" event.
Quote from: SW Indiana on June 12, 2021, 12:25:27 PM
https://www.insideindianabusiness.com/story/44084011/holcomb-announces-dollar475m-in-infrastructure-projects
"The state will invest $75 million for the design and construction of additional travel lanes, passing lanes and intersection improvements at specific locations along a 48-mile stretch of U.S. 231 between I-64 and I-69. The governor's office says the improvements will "significantly reduce" congestion in the Jasper and Huntingburg areas.
Construction is expected to begin by late 2022."
The commissioner says the planned Mid-States Corridor project, which would run from the Ohio River through Dubois County and connect to I-69, played a factor in the decision to make the announced improvements. The project team is currently working to complete a Tier 1 Draft Environmental Impact Study, which will also identify a preferred route that could involve U.S. 231.
"That helped us identify some of these projects that may have not been on our radar before the Tier 1 began, and so it identified some needs that we need to address today and so that's why we're happy to make this announcement because we know long-term, regardless of a bypass or a new road or new corridor, these improvements must be made."
The governor announced the projects Friday during the Southwest Indiana Chamber of Commerce's annual "Lunch with the Governor" event.
Based on what I've read so far, the plans to upgrade US 231 through Crane are not what the group had in mind. I didn't read any new four lane roads or bypasses of Jasper or Huntingburg. That would make the cost much more than the 75 million dollars that is budgeted.
https://www.courierpress.com/story/news/local/2022/04/11/indot-chooses-preferred-route-controversial-mid-states-corridor/7277119001/
Looks like corridor P is the chosen route
SM-G996U
A bit more specifically (of interest to me) is the route P-East (of Loogootee).
The actual announcement will not be out until Friday according to the Evansville Courier Press article.
https://www.duboiscountyfreepress.com/mid-states-corridor-route-recommendation-announced-environmental-impact-statement-to-be-released-friday/ (https://www.duboiscountyfreepress.com/mid-states-corridor-route-recommendation-announced-environmental-impact-statement-to-be-released-friday/)
Really comes down to what people believe to be a "better road".
If a road is built for safety and limited access, then why make it go through the downtowns of these small towns, it appears so they don't lose business.
But if the roads bring more business, just not through downtown, or provide an opportunity to get more business for economic development, then it will increase the tax base long term.
Trying to build safer road on existing ROW's almost always require the acquisition of private property. So while I understand its an issue, one must remember that no matter what, if they want a road improvement, property will be required period no matter how it is routed.
How crucial is building a Mid-States Corridor along US 231 in Indiana? Interstate 69 is not too far to the west. In my opinion, if upgrades are truly needed for the corridor, I'd expand US 231 to 4 lanes along its existing alignment as much as possible with bypasses around each city and town it passes through.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 11, 2022, 10:57:17 PM
How crucial is building a Mid-States Corridor along US 231 in Indiana? Interstate 69 is not too far to the west. In my opinion, if upgrades are truly needed for the corridor, I'd expand US 231 to 4 lanes along its existing alignment as much as possible with bypasses around each city and town it passes through.
That's probably what they're going to do. There's only two mid-sized cities to bypass – Jasper, Huntingburg – and one small one, Loogootee. Bypasses around Jasper and Huntingburg are pretty much no-brainers, as shifting truck traffic away from their respective downtowns is long overdue. And, of course, the highway can't and won't go through Loogootee. Looking 40 or 50 years out, the expressway option may be more beneficial than a Super 2.
Quote from: ITB on April 12, 2022, 03:05:11 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 11, 2022, 10:57:17 PM
How crucial is building a Mid-States Corridor along US 231 in Indiana? Interstate 69 is not too far to the west. In my opinion, if upgrades are truly needed for the corridor, I'd expand US 231 to 4 lanes along its existing alignment as much as possible with bypasses around each city and town it passes through.
That's probably what they're going to do. There's only two mid-sized cities to bypass – Jasper, Huntingburg – and one small one, Loogootee. Bypasses around Jasper and Huntingburg are pretty much no-brainers, as shifting truck traffic away from their respective downtowns is long overdue. And, of course, the highway can't and won't go through Loogootee. Looking 40 or 50 years out, the expressway option may be more beneficial than a Super 2.
The study represents a part of the fundamental shift in national traffic patterns (IMHO). More N/S highway research underway across the country (like the Ports to Plains effort, I-57/I-49 in Arkansas) due to this.
The US population has been slowly migrating south (mostly SW) and so this has increased the amount of N/S traffic overall.
Quote from: ITB on April 12, 2022, 03:05:11 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 11, 2022, 10:57:17 PM
How crucial is building a Mid-States Corridor along US 231 in Indiana? Interstate 69 is not too far to the west. In my opinion, if upgrades are truly needed for the corridor, I'd expand US 231 to 4 lanes along its existing alignment as much as possible with bypasses around each city and town it passes through.
That's probably what they're going to do. There's only two mid-sized cities to bypass – Jasper, Huntingburg – and one small one, Loogootee. Bypasses around Jasper and Huntingburg are pretty much no-brainers, as shifting truck traffic away from their respective downtowns is long overdue. And, of course, the highway can't and won't go through Loogootee. Looking 40 or 50 years out, the expressway option may be more beneficial than a Super 2.
My guess is that this decision was mostly due to overall cost considerations compared to benefits. The best benefit would have gone up through Jasper and then veered north east near the Patoka Lake area then up to French Lick, bypass Paoli to the NW and hook up with 4 lane IN 37 between Paoli and Orleans. Problem with that is that it would have been very expensive to buy the property needed and then construct a four lane. My guess is that they will make this 4 lane from Jasper to I-64 (if not, there is a major problem), bypass Huntingburg and Jasper along with a four lane bypass of Loogootee (and possibly include US50/US150 with it), and the rest a super two using mostly the ROW of US 231 as it exists now as a starting point.
The DEIS is finally available;
https://midstatescorridor.com/deis/ (https://midstatescorridor.com/deis/)
from the website;
Begins at I-64/US 231 interchange
Travels east of Huntingburg and Jasper
Avoids developed areas near those cities
Parallels existing US 231 alignment to the west
Includes western bypass of Loogootee
Avoids West Boggs Lake to the east
Crosses back west of existing US 231
Continues north
Ends at I-69 interchange at US 231
Includes 9 local improvements along existing US 231
Other than the Loogootee bypass, why can't this follow existing 231 north of Haysville? What's the point of it wiggling around the existing ROW?
Quote from: bmeiser on April 15, 2022, 10:04:44 AM
Other than the Loogootee bypass, why can't this follow existing 231 north of Haysville? What's the point of it wiggling around the existing ROW?
I've not read the report yet so I'm just opining here.
At first, I'm inclined to agree about the lack of existing alignment, but what maps don't show are the hills along the current route. Flattening the current alignment would have major impact on many existing improvements along the road.
Quote from: bmeiser on April 15, 2022, 10:04:44 AM
Other than the Loogootee bypass, why can't this follow existing 231 north of Haysville? What's the point of it wiggling around the existing ROW?
A quick survey shows a significant number of homes with driveways off the original ROW.
Another issue may be the fact there is a river that flows N/S along the west side of the current ROW.
I would surmise that a new ROW would mitigate any environmental issues trying to work around it.
Quote from: edwaleni on April 15, 2022, 12:48:38 PM
Quote from: bmeiser on April 15, 2022, 10:04:44 AM
Other than the Loogootee bypass, why can't this follow existing 231 north of Haysville? What's the point of it wiggling around the existing ROW?
A quick survey shows a significant number of homes with driveways off the original ROW.
Another issue may be the fact there is a river that flows N/S along the west side of the current ROW.
I would surmise that a new ROW would mitigate any environmental issues trying to work around it.
A super 2 would suffice along the current roadway north of Jasper, imo. 2021 traffic counts on 231 show 5,521 on north edge of Loogootee and that drops to 4,601 at West Boggs Lake. South of Loogootee, its 6,186 and 5,622 just north of Haysville.
Even a bypass around Loogootee is sketchy. Even during peak traffic times and getting stopped at each of the three traffic lights, it takes at most 5-7 minutes to get through town.
It's nice around Loogootee. Wonder if a bypass would ruin it.
Quote from: Rothman on April 15, 2022, 03:03:48 PM
It's nice around Loogootee. Wonder if a bypass would ruin it.
IMHO: Southern Indiana is a very cool place and not like the rest of Indiana at all. Lots of history, beautiful hills and valleys, great camping and some hidden motorcycling gems.
I used to ride and camp near Spencer (McCormicks Creek), French Lick, Paoli Peaks for winter skiing.
The steepest railroad grade in Madison, the underground caves in Corydon. Swimming in Lake Shakamak, the real lake, not the water park they have their now. Jumping off the 12 foot platform or heaven forbid the 20 footer!
The abandoned rail tunnel near Owensburg (almost collapsed now).
So much to explore and see.
Here is a story about the corridor:
https://indianapublicmedia.org/news/topics/indiana-newsdesk.php