I think it would be funny to see how many cars (or trucks, or SUVs,... well, everything with 4 wheels) you had in your life.
I let you talk first; my list is too long!
In order of acquisition, if memory serves
1963 MGB
1966 Oldsmobile Cutlass
1967 Volkswagen Type 3
1967 BMW 1600
1969 Austin America
1969 Volkswagen Type 1
1967 Volkswagen Type 2
1964 Volkswagen Type 2 (21 window)
1961 Volkswagen Type 2 (15 window)
1966 Volkswagen Type 1
1971 Volkswagen Type 2 (Single cab)
1967 Volkswagen Type 2 (Westphalia)
1964 Volvo 544
1972 Chevrolet Impala
1961 Volkswagen Type 2 (15 window)
1976 Chevrolet G20 Van
1967 Volvo 122 Wagon
1968 Volvo 142S
1979 Volvo 242 DL
1971 Volkswagen Type 2 (Westphalia)
1984 Volvo 242 DL
1980 Volvo 242 DL
1989 Chevy K-10 Blazer
1989 Chevy K-10 Blazer
1989 Volvo 245 DL
1994 Plymouth Voyager
2015 Volvo XC70 T6
I count 27.
I recently looked at a 2016 Volvo V60 Cross Country but I decided against buying it.
...great!
Here's my list. Not sure, I think one's missing.
1971 Pontiac Ventura II 2-door coupe, with a 307 V8, and a 3-speed automatic
1974 Oldsmobile Cutlass S 2-door coupe, 350 V8, A3
1981 Chevrolet Monte Carlo 2-door coupe, 267 V8, A3
1978 Chrysler LeBaron 2-door coupe, 318 V8, A3 (while I had the Monte Carlo)
1978 AMC Pacer 3-door wagon, 258 L6, M4
1979 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme 2-door coupe, 305 V8, A3
1978 Honda Civic 3-door hatchback, 75 L4, M4 (while I had the Cutlass Supreme)
1979 Pontiac Grand LeMans 4-door sedan, 267 V8, A3
1982 Ford EXP 2-door coupe, 97 L4, M4
1979 Chevrolet Monte Carlo 2-door coupe, 305 V8, A3
1978 Plymouth Caravelle 2-door coupe, 318 V8, A3
1984 Oldsmobile Firenza 3-door hatchback, 109 L4, A3
1976 Ford E-250 Cargo van, 302 V8, A3
1983 Renault Alliance 2-door coupe, 85 L4, M5 (while I had the van)
1981 Chevrolet Caprice Classic 4-door sedan, 305 V8, A3
1980 Chevrolet G10 Chevy-Van Cargo, 305 V8, A3 (while I had the Caprice)
1981 Chevrolet Malibu Classic 2-door coupe, 231 V6, A3
1986 Ford Taurus L 4-door sedan, 152 L4, A3
1992 Dodge Shadow ES 4-door hatchback, 181 V6, A4
1997 Plymouth Neon 4-door sedan, 121 L4, A3
1988 Chevrolet Cavalier Z24, 2-door coupe, 173 V6, M5
1988 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera 2-door coupe, 173 V6, A3
1985 Mercury Topaz LS 4-door sedan, 140 L4, A3
1994 Plymouth Voyager Minivan, 201 V6, A4
2002 Hyundai Accent L 3-door hatchback, 91 L4, M5
1987 Jeep Cherokee Chief 4wd 3-door SUV, 240 L6, M5 (while I had the Hyundai)
1999 Dodge Dakota Sport 4wd 2-door Club-cab pick-up, 318 V8, A4
1997 Plymouth Breeze 4-door sedan, 148 L4, A4 (while I had the Dakota)
2012 Dodge Charger 4-door sedan, 220 V6, A5 (actual vehicle)
2006 Dodge Durango Limited awd 4-door SUV, 345 V8, A5 (actual vehicle too)
As you can see, it happens regularly that I own two vehicles at a time.
Why do you need so many cars if cars generally last about 10 years?
Cars I had no say in obtaining:
1982 Aries K
1987 Reliant K
1984 Chevy Chevette
Cars I actually bought myself:
1989 Chevy cavalier (180k miles)
1996 Saturn SL (315k miles)
2003 Chevy Cavalier (203k miles)
2009 Saturn Aura (253k miles)
2016 Chevy Malibu (110k miles and counting)
1972 Datsun 1200
197_ Datsun B-210 (a co-purchase with my sisters, like the 1200, but this time they picked the car)
197_ Datsun 510 (for living off-campus my junior year at college)
1986 Honda Prelude (had to sell it at 20K to qualify for a mortgage)
19__ Toyota Corolla (bought used, after I bought my apartment)
19__ Plymouth Valiant (another stopgap)
1982 Honda Accord (bought at 102K miles, died at 282K; stickshift, I fried some clutches while learning it)
1996 BMW 328i (bought new, stickshift, totaled by a drunk driver at 194K in late 2007 while it was parked in front of my apartment)
2006 Nissan Titan pickup truck (bought new, died at 182K)
2008 Toyota Prius (bought new, 309K and counting)
2018 Subaru Forester (bought new, 46K and counting)
Beginning with the 1996 BMW, I overlapped my car purchases, generally using the newer car for long road trips and keeping the older one for local travel. But my latest car was bought with the plan to drop back to one car for the first time since 1996, once the Prius gives up the ghost.
1987 Chevy Celebrity
1998 Chevy Malibu
2005 Volvo S80
2000 Mercedes ML320 (mom)
2007 BMW X5 (mom)
2009 Mercedes ML350 (mom, to be replaced soon)
2011 Mercedes ML350 (dad)
Quote from: 1 on July 28, 2019, 08:02:24 AM
Why do you need so many cars if cars generally last about 10 years?
Need is totally ambiguous, when it comes to vehicle ownership. 50% of American drivers could literally get by on sub-compacts, but they like big cars, luxurious cars, and/or vehicles that can easily propel them far past posted speed limits.
Wants are a different matter; we don't all buy our clothes at the same places in which we buy our groceries (though that's 50% of my wardrobe), nor desire to live in apartments, et cetera.
1) People like to own multiple vehicles, and appreciate them for their differences/usefulness
2) need different one because the existing one doesn't meet their needs
3) don't want to risk driving around once the odometer hits a personal/physical limit where it feels like a liability
4) they lease them and then it's gone after 36-39 months
5) financially makes more sense to make payments on a new car than spend thousands on repairs
6) they drive it into the ground until it's unusable; or cheaper to buy another old car
7) work on them themselves (or arrange cheaper parts/labor), drive them for a while, and then sell them
8) paradoxically, some older cars didn't always last 10 years, while others can last for decades with the right care
9) they're really unfortunate/terrible/stunt drivers and they write them off frequently
----------------------
Six cars:
- 1988 Honda Accord LX - drove this for a few years; retirement communities were full of low-mileage machinery like this one.
- 1990 Eagle Talon TSi - drove this fun car for a year until I realized it was a terrible money pit.
- 1995 Dodge Neon - first new car, lasted 7 years w/o major issues until it met a red-light runner.
- 1993 Toyota Corolla - replaced junked previous car, paid just $48 for it; sold it 2 years later. Learned how to work on car for first time.
- 1994 Lexus GS 300 - spoiled myself on a low-mileage car, was fortunate enough to profit from a mysteriously eager buyer, five years later.
- 2009 Scion xD - current vehicle, going strong for 10 years, though only 90,000 miles. Trouble-free car, though I recommend the five-speed over the auto.
My wife has had three cars since we've been together; both of which I'd driven around a little:
- 1995 Saturn SL - an okay compact for its time. Had erratic transmission and starting issues we were tired of taking care of, traded it at 70K
- 2000 Honda CR-V (2WD) - the very definition of a trouble-free vehicle. Sold it at 110,000 miles for something with more seats.
- 2012 Mazda 5 - had early troubles (fuel tank vapor sensor, main wiring harness connectors), but has been reliable for past 6 years.
Quote from: formulanone on July 28, 2019, 10:42:52 AM
Quote from: 1 on July 28, 2019, 08:02:24 AM
Why do you need so many cars if cars generally last about 10 years?
2009 Scion xD - current vehicle, going strong for 10 years, though only 90,000 miles.
I didn't know you like subcompact cars. I'm a tall guy 6' 1" and I like big cars like Accord, Camry, and Avalon, or even Altima, or Maxima size.
Quote from: mrhappy1261 on July 28, 2019, 10:46:29 AM
Quote from: formulanone on July 28, 2019, 10:42:52 AM
Quote from: 1 on July 28, 2019, 08:02:24 AM
Why do you need so many cars if cars generally last about 10 years?
2009 Scion xD - current vehicle, going strong for 10 years, though only 90,000 miles.
I didn't know you like subcompact cars. I'm a tall guy 6' 1" and I like big cars like Accord, Camry, and Avalon, or even Altima, or Maxima size.
I like to go faster in a slow car than slow in a fast car, as they say. They just feel lighter and nimble, in my opinion. The problems (or benefits) are that they're usually missing lots of the latest gadgets, though there are plenty of electronic annoyances that I can do without.
It has the headroom/clearance for someone just over six foot tall (I've had technicians tell me they were amazed they fit in it), but it might be a squeeze for a taller family of four.
I don't put that many miles on my own car because I fly out to places for work, and drive all sorts of rental cars.
2009 Hyundai Elantra, bought it used in 2011, has about 80K on the odometer (I drive about 9,000 miles per year).
Quote from: formulanone on July 28, 2019, 10:52:52 AM
Quote from: mrhappy1261 on July 28, 2019, 10:46:29 AM
Quote from: formulanone on July 28, 2019, 10:42:52 AM
Quote from: 1 on July 28, 2019, 08:02:24 AM
Why do you need so many cars if cars generally last about 10 years?
2009 Scion xD - current vehicle, going strong for 10 years, though only 90,000 miles.
I didn't know you like subcompact cars. I'm a tall guy 6' 1" and I like big cars like Accord, Camry, and Avalon, or even Altima, or Maxima size.
I like to go faster in a slow car than slow in a fast car, as they say. They just feel lighter and nimble, in my opinion. The problems (or benefits) are that they're usually missing lots of the latest gadgets, though there are plenty of electronic annoyances that I can do without.
It has the headroom/clearance for someone just over six foot tall (I've had technicians tell me they were amazed they fit in it), but it might be a squeeze for a taller family of four.
I don't put that many miles on my own car because I fly out to places for work, and drive all sorts of rental cars.
I hate being cramped when I get inside a small car because I feel so cramped.
I see. My dad also doesn't put many miles on his car because he doesn't really travel.
A grand total of three.
2002 Chrysler PT Cruiser, 2.4L 4 cyl, automatic, 178,000 mi
2011 Dodge Caliber, 2.0L 4 cyl, 5-speed manual, 261,000 mi
2017 Jeep Renegade, 1.4L turbo, 4cyl, 6-speed manual, 101,000 mi and counting.
All three were bought new. I see no reason to inherit someone else's problems.
I'm actually amazed I can't remember the years of all the cars I've had:
1981 Honda Civic
Early 1990s Toyota Camry
Mid 1990s Toyota Corolla (why my wife and I got rid of this one, I still don't know).
2000 Mercury Sable
2002 Dodge Stratus
2005 Nissan Sentra (lasted me forever)
2013 Hyundai Elantra
Quote from: Brandon on July 28, 2019, 12:15:54 PM
All three were bought new. I see no reason to inherit someone else's problems.
New cars depreciate considerably the moment you drive them off the lot. By buying my 2009 Elantra in 2011 (around 10K on it), I let the original owner take that hit. Car's been fine, I'll probably have it at least 5 more years.
Personally, 2
1) 1991 Off-White Ford Taurus - Drove it cross country for school from 2003-2009, then my daily commuter until spring 2014 when the heater core blew. Annoying to work on, and had some foibles, but a great little car.
2) 2012 Brown Chevrolet Malibu - The First car I bought. Loved it. Ran great. That is, until one of the cylinders died in April, and the car with it.
Fiancee, 1
1) 2017 Grey Ford Escapé - Wonderful car with a personality I've not seen in a vehicle. Only real flaw is that there is on ACC mode on the car, so at least once per Drive-In Movie, we have to turn on the car, and the lights come on. Also has an annoying habit of ignoring whatever device you have connected to play audio from, and switches to the radio, at a volume, far in excess of what you normally listen to.
Parents
1) 1978 Red Mercury Bobcat - My Mother's car when she and my dad got married. Had it shipped to Ohau when he was stationed there. Awesome car. My Half-sister inherited it when we moved back to the mainland. She ended up catching it on fire a few years later. It's hulk is likely haunting some property on the island.
2) 1986 Black Jeep Cherokee (AMC) - First car my parents bought together, in Hawaii. Built like a tank, and would run forever, thanks to its manual transmission. Mostly original parts for its life, aside from a rebuilding of the transmission at 240,000 miles. The vehicle I learned to drive stick in. Killed at 265,000 miles, by a boat.
3) 1985 Blue Chevrolet Luv - My dad bought it for commuting to work, largely because he could park it on the mainland and store is bicycle in the back, making it much easier to travel to, from, and around the Boeing plant. Sold to a friend.
4) 1977 Orange GMC C/K 15 (Sierra Grande) - Great truck, ended up ripping the camper off the back after 10 years of ownership to reduce drag. Was my primary vehicle in High School. Dual Fuel Tanks were awesome. Helped my dad rebuild the engine after the heads cracked. Took 4 months, but was an incredible experience. Donated to charity in 2013
5) 1995 White Ford Contour - Bought for Cash for $8000 in 1998. Car I got my license in. Fun to drive and nimble... just couldn't keep the interior of the windows clean without keeping the defroster on, year-around. Died when my parents were driving to Seattle, were cut-off by another driver, and in the act of breaking and hitting the soft shoulder, flipped the car. Afterwards, the rear axel was found broken, but no one know if it was the cause or the result of the crash.
6) 1985 White Toyota Camry - Another cash vehicle, to replace the Jeep as a daily driver. Helped my dad re-build the engine. Would go like a rocket, and get 40-45MPG. Sold to our house cleaner in 2014. Ended up getting T-Boned in 2018.
7) 2002 Candy Apple Red Chevrolet Corvette - I swear this car was nothing more than my parents' mid-life crisis. Bought less than 6-weeks after buying the Camry, used sparingly, but did force us to keep the garage clean. Was really fun to drive, of course. Wasn't allowed to tell most of my Dad's family about it, as they would want to see it or beg for money. I only got to drive it alone a few times. Traded in for #9.
8) 1995 Blue Honda Civic - Purchased for $75 dollars. Was an electrical and mechanical mess. Drove well, but the central locking didn't work, and you could only unlock the driver's side with the key. Fun car to drive for a few years, until it was donated, as it just wasn't a fit long-term.
9) 2003 Golden Toyota Tacoma - My Dad had wanted a Tacoma since 2004. He'd been talking and talking, and finally found one in 2009. He bought it, and loves it. It has been hunting, camping, prospecting, and squatch hunting; even went cross-country once. The front end was completely destroyed when a Tundra stopped short for a "deer". Was completely repaired (having gone up in value since purchase), and actually drives better than it did before. Currently my vehicle, while I save up for a replacement for mine.
10) 2011 Warm Grey Buick Regal Turbo (seriously, the color looks like Bender when he had a fever) - Another fun car bought to replace the Corvette as a better "family" car was needed than the Camry. Been great, aside from an odd sticky break issue. Been to every Canadian Province (just clinched Saskatchewan and Manitoba this summer), and everyone state north of Virgina, and the southwest. Parents love using it for a Grand Touring vehicle, and they can take the "grandkids" in it, much easier than the Tacoma.
Fewer than might be expected considering I'm a car person:
- 1992 Pontiac Sun Bird
- 1997 Chevy Silverado 4x4
- 2002 Ford Mustang V6
- 2010 Camaro 1SS
- 2011 Ford Fiesta SE
- 2014 Chevy Sonic LT Turbo
- 2016 Dodge Challenger Scat Pack 392
- 2019 Subaru Impreza
There was a 1997 Cadillac DeVille that kind of sort of counts given how long I drove it. My wife owns a 2006 Toyota Corolla and a 2018 Subaru Forester which I operate regularly.
I've owned six. All have been manual-shift. I've never owned a car with an automatic, although my wife has one now and I drive it fairly regularly.
–1977 Ford Granada (bought at age 16 from a family friend who worked with my father)
–1982 Honda Accord (bought from my father during my senior year of high school when he got a new car; I then sold the Granada to my brother)
–1986 Acura Legend (after I graduated from college, the '82 Accord failed state inspection due to undercarriage rust and my parents got me the Legend as a graduation present)
–1997 Honda Accord (in 1999 the Legend's maintenance bills simply got out of control, so I traded it in on the '97 Accord)
–2004 Acura TL (in August 2004 the '97 Accord was totalled when I got rear-ended by a Volvo wagon; I bought the TL a week later and I still have it and still love it)
–1988 Mazda RX-7 convertible (bought it from my then-girlfriend, now wife, in May 2005 when the maintenance was more than she could manage; at the same time, I gave her the down payment for a 2003 Acura RSX Type-S. We still have both cars.)
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on July 28, 2019, 01:12:59 PM
Quote from: Brandon on July 28, 2019, 12:15:54 PM
All three were bought new. I see no reason to inherit someone else's problems.
New cars depreciate considerably the moment you drive them off the lot. By buying my 2009 Elantra in 2011 (around 10K on it), I let the original owner take that hit. Car's been fine, I'll probably have it at least 5 more years.
I honestly don't give two shits about depreciation. I keep the car and run it for a long time and many miles. I'd rather have a warranty and a dependable machine over someone else's problems.
1971 Dodge Dart (hand-me-down from my mom)
1979 Olds Cutlass Supreme
1984 Chevy Camaro Z-28 (biggest piece of junk I ever owned)
1988 Chevy S-10 Blazer
1994 Saturn SC2
2000 Toyota Tacoma 4WD
2008 Saturn Vue
Still have the SC2 and Toyota, but neither are running at the moment.
I also have, inherited from my dad, a 1990 Chevy 2WD pickup. It's the oldest vehicle I have, but has the fewest miles on it.
Quote from: Brandon on July 28, 2019, 03:28:02 PM
I honestly don't give two shits about depreciation. I keep the car and run it for a long time and many miles. I'd rather have a warranty and a dependable machine over someone else's problems.
Very often, you'll get a warranty if you buy a used car. I bought my Saturn Vue used. The only reason the family traded it was because they needed a bigger vehicle (they traded it for a Toyota Highlander). I bought it with 24K miles, which meant I still had 76K miles on the warranty.
Quote from: Brandon on July 28, 2019, 03:28:02 PM
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on July 28, 2019, 01:12:59 PM
Quote from: Brandon on July 28, 2019, 12:15:54 PM
All three were bought new. I see no reason to inherit someone else's problems.
New cars depreciate considerably the moment you drive them off the lot. By buying my 2009 Elantra in 2011 (around 10K on it), I let the original owner take that hit. Car's been fine, I'll probably have it at least 5 more years.
I honestly don't give two shits about depreciation. I keep the car and run it for a long time and many miles. I'd rather have a warranty and a dependable machine over someone else's problems.
Lack of proper maintenance or even basic maintenance is a huge problem in the used car market. The 02 Mustang, 97 Silverado and 92 Sun Bird were all owned by other drivers previously, all of them gave me the biggest issues because proper/basic maintenance wasn't done on them. At the time those vehicles were what I could afford so often I found myself fixing problems myself in my garage with my own equipment to save money. I'd much rather get a cheap new small car these cars and drive it up to 150k-200k before giving it to a family member. At least when I've have control I can count on a car being maintained the way I want.
Quote from: Brandon on July 28, 2019, 03:28:02 PM
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on July 28, 2019, 01:12:59 PM
Quote from: Brandon on July 28, 2019, 12:15:54 PM
All three were bought new. I see no reason to inherit someone else's problems.
New cars depreciate considerably the moment you drive them off the lot. By buying my 2009 Elantra in 2011 (around 10K on it), I let the original owner take that hit. Car's been fine, I'll probably have it at least 5 more years.
I honestly don't give two shits about depreciation. I keep the car and run it for a long time and many miles. I'd rather have a warranty and a dependable machine over someone else's problems.
I am with AlexandriaVA on this one. I've only bought used and the only time I inherited problems was with the first car I bought myself -- I bought from a crook and was stupid on that one (timing belt blew on the first drive after I test drove and bought it!). But, the other cars I've purchased have been fine as I smartened up.
Warranties don't cover things that will go out up front -- and extended warranties are a fool's purchase.
So, yeah, I don't know if I'd ever buy new and will go with a recent year used car that I'll drive into the ground.
One thing about buying new is that you know it's been broken in and maintained properly (assuming you do so), although of course if you buy a car from a family member you'd probably have a good idea on that as well.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 28, 2019, 03:44:47 PM
One thing about buying new is that you know it's been broken in and maintained properly (assuming you do so), although of course if you buy a car from a family member you'd probably have a good idea on that as well.
"Broken in" new car? In what way? A brand new car doesn't have that many miles on it.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 28, 2019, 03:44:47 PM
One thing about buying new is that you know it's been broken in and maintained properly (assuming you do so), although of course if you buy a car from a family member you'd probably have a good idea on that as well.
Or known it's not a good idea to buy from family. Case and point, my Dad was a mechanic but it was also very clear to me once a vehicle hit 100k he stopped doing the basic maintenance as required because he was looking to dump it off on someone. I've found (at least in my family) that tends to be the M.O. when they are looking to get rid of an older car. That 97 Silverado I listed above was my Dad's and was something I took over payments on until I bought it. Some of the stuff he tried to peddle on to me at 16 was pretty bad in retrospect. At minimum I made him help me fix some of the body damage that he hid from me that found when I removed a bumper.
Quote from: Rothman on July 28, 2019, 03:48:54 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 28, 2019, 03:44:47 PM
One thing about buying new is that you know it's been broken in and maintained properly (assuming you do so), although of course if you buy a car from a family member you'd probably have a good idea on that as well.
"Broken in" new car? In what way? A brand new car doesn't have that many miles on it.
Most cars when new have a break-in schedule usually for the first 500-1,000 miles. Usually the user manual is very specific on how what RPMs to avoid and not going to certain speeds.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 28, 2019, 03:54:09 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 28, 2019, 03:48:54 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 28, 2019, 03:44:47 PM
One thing about buying new is that you know it's been broken in and maintained properly (assuming you do so), although of course if you buy a car from a family member you'd probably have a good idea on that as well.
"Broken in" new car? In what way? A brand new car doesn't have that many miles on it.
Most cars when new have a break-in schedule usually for the first 500-1,000 miles. Usually the user manual is very specific on how what RPMs to avoid and not going to certain speeds.
Oh, so he's saying that you know that you have broken it in rather than buying it as already "broken in."
Quote from: Rothman on July 28, 2019, 04:26:48 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 28, 2019, 03:54:09 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 28, 2019, 03:48:54 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 28, 2019, 03:44:47 PM
One thing about buying new is that you know it's been broken in and maintained properly (assuming you do so), although of course if you buy a car from a family member you'd probably have a good idea on that as well.
"Broken in" new car? In what way? A brand new car doesn't have that many miles on it.
Most cars when new have a break-in schedule usually for the first 500-1,000 miles. Usually the user manual is very specific on how what RPMs to avoid and not going to certain speeds.
Oh, so he's saying that you know that you have broken it in rather than buying it as already "broken in."
That's what I assumed he meant. Most people don't pay attention to the break-in period which can sometimes lead to engine damage or more typically leaks that might void a powertrain warranty. That kind of problem is more typical of a performance car where someone is more likely to try to drive it harshly fresh off the lot.
Not counting my parents' cars while I was still living at home (years are approximate)...
1995 Toyota Corolla (stick), 1999
1988 Toyota Corolla DX (stick), 2003-2004
1999 Dodge Stratus (married into my wife's car), 2006-2007
2004 Dodge Grand Caravan SXT, 2007-2015
2007 Nissan Pathfinder 4WD, 2015-2016
2006 Nissan Pathfinder SE 4WD, 2016-current
I've only ever had two passenger cars in my life:
1984 Toyota Tercel (1992-1994) (no power steering)
1994 Toyota Pickup 2wd single-cab (1994-1998) (no power steering, stick shift) (the "˜95 model year was when Toyota started calling them Tacoma)
1994 GMC Sonoma 2wd extended cab (1998-2001) (stick shift)
1998 Jeep Cherokee Classic 4wd (2001-2007)
1995 Nissan Altima (2004)
2004 Honda Element AWD (2004-2007)
2005 GMC Sierra SLT Z71 4wd extended cab (2007-now)
I only drive my current vehicle on weekends, as since 2013 I have had two company vehicles, both plain white work vans:
2013 Ford Transit Connect XL (2013-2017)
2010 Chevy Express 2500 (2017-now)
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on July 28, 2019, 01:12:59 PM
Quote from: Brandon on July 28, 2019, 12:15:54 PM
All three were bought new. I see no reason to inherit someone else's problems.
New cars depreciate considerably the moment you drive them off the lot. By buying my 2009 Elantra in 2011 (around 10K on it), I let the original owner take that hit. Car's been fine, I'll probably have it at least 5 more years.
But if you keep the car long enough, my new car didn't cost me much...$1500 a year ($125/month). My company pays me back fifty cents a mile for work usage, about 80% of my driving. So I pay even less, essentially. Makes sense for me to buy new and cheap.
I think folks just like idea of having no up-front major maintenance headaches, or at least the perception of it. You pay one way or another in the maintenance game, though results are quite random for the first 10 years / 100,000 miles; then it's a lot more "anything goes".
^ I agree that the depreciation hit upon driving the car off the lot isn't a big deal, if your plan is spread that hit over 200K miles or longer.
I tend to buy new just to get exactly the car and options I want. In one instance, what I wanted was at a dealer on Long Island, so that was transported (cost me a few hundred dollars) to a local dealer in the D.C. area.
Quote from: oscar on July 28, 2019, 08:06:55 PM
^ I agree that the depreciation hit upon driving the car off the lot isn't a big deal, if your plan is spread that hit over 200K miles or longer.
I tend to buy new just to get exactly the car and options I want. In one instance, what I wanted was at a dealer on Long Island, so that was transported (cost me a few hundred dollars) to a local dealer in the D.C. area.
I try to buy cars under 75k mileage. I think it's the best idea. Do under 130K if your budget is low or as a first car. What's the best car brand?
Quote from: mrhappy1261 on July 28, 2019, 08:12:24 PM
Quote from: oscar on July 28, 2019, 08:06:55 PM
^ I agree that the depreciation hit upon driving the car off the lot isn't a big deal, if your plan is spread that hit over 200K miles or longer.
I tend to buy new just to get exactly the car and options I want. In one instance, what I wanted was at a dealer on Long Island, so that was transported (cost me a few hundred dollars) to a local dealer in the D.C. area.
I try to buy cars under 75k mileage. I think it's the best idea. Do under 130K if your budget is low or as a first car. What's the best car brand?
There really such a thing as "best car" brand with a used car. If you're buying over 100k in mileage you're going to have maintenance no matter what. To what degree depends on if the owner/s beforehand took care of the vehicle. About the only thing I would add is that domestic OEM parts traditionally are cheaper over imports but that gap seems to be closing with time. Even in the domain of new cars there isn't much separation from the worst reviewed cars for reliably to the best. The age of Pintos and Yugos is long gone.
Starting with cars my parents bought that I used
1964 rambler 2-door coupe
1968 amc 4-door with on the column 3-speed manual that rattled while idling
1972 plymouth fury III
1974 mercury capri
1971 volkswagon camper van
1973 toyota celica
1974 toyota celica, was the car I first insured myself
1978 buick riviera
first car purchased:
1991 honda accord 4 dr
1999 honda civic 4 dr
2000 dodge caravan sport
2006 honda odyssey (the only car I owned that I can't remember how to spell)
2007 ford mustang (I still own this)
2011 honda odyssey
2012 honda cr-v
2019 honda cr-v (I just bought this)
I'm in high school, so i'm talking about my parents cars. We've had 7 or 8 cars. I forgot the model of them I think it was
Volvo 740
and a red Volvo 940 i think. see more for my following post back up
Let's see if I can remember the details...
In 1986, I was given a 1972 Buick Skylark by my grandmother when she got a somewhat newer used car. I don't remember the mileage. It was a light yellow with at least as much rust and primer as original paint. It didn't last all that long but it got me around. It was my only car that ran on leaded gasoline. When it died, we paid a local junk yard a small amount of money to take it off my hands, as it wasn't really worth anything to them.
I believe it was 1987 when I purchased my 1980 Buick Skylark. Again I don't remember mileage details, but I'm pretty sure I paid $800, all from my savings. I had this one for a year or two, and I remember when I had it for sale, water had started to seep up into the carpets from underneath when driving in the rain. I also recall that a large person who came to look at it when I was selling it caused part of the floor to drop some. I am pretty sure I got very little for it in the end.
Next I bought a Mercury Topaz from my grandmother, which was previously my father's company car. I'd guess the model year was a 1986 or 1987. I had that for a few years, and drove it beyond 100,000 miles for sure.
My 1988 Cutlass Supreme came next, bought from a family friend. This one served me well for a couple years, and got me back and forth as I commuted to college.
In 1994, I got my first new car, a Saturn SL2. It was very reliable and got over 135,000 miles, including drives to Minnesota and Florida in 1997 and a cross-country trip in 1999. I sold it to a friend's son, who drove it a little while longer.
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In 2001, I bought a new Audi A4, and promptly put a bunch of miles on it starting with my Alaska trip just a few weeks after I bought it. It had its first oil change in Edmonton on the way there. The car was mostly fantasic other than some ignition coil problems that were repaired under warranty. I traded it in with 248,900 miles, at which point it was really time. It had begun to stall at highway speeds and the repair was going to be far more than the value of the car.
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I replaced it in 2010 with a 2008 Volvo S60, purchased with 42,000 miles on it. It also went on many trips and some of my longer commutes. It was still going strong when I sold it last year with 189,000+ miles, but it was starting to rack up too many costly repairs.
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Last fall, I found a 2015 Audi A3 with only about 8,000 miles on it, and that one has been great so far. I liked the Volvo, but the Audis are so much more fun to drive.
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12, in 32 years.
1964 Mercury Comet we drove from DE to AK.
1966 Ford Falcon with 3 on the tree.
1971 Mercury Comet
1969 Chevy Chevelle. It came with a 6 cylinder (grandads' car) I was going to put a 351 in it but got t-boned & totalled car.
1971 VW Bug. Rolled it in a soybean field on my 21st birthday, no one was hurt so we just rolled it back to 4 wheels & partied on.
1973 Ford Galaxie
1976 Ford Galaxie s/w
Yamaha 350 motorcycle. Rode it year-round in DE, one winter on my way to work rain changed to sleet but the roads stayed wet. My raincoat was frozen covered in ice, it was difficult to get off the bike.
1974 Plymouth Satellite. It was the taxi I drove for 5 yrs. We drove it from DE to FL with stops in Detroit & Rockford, IL pulling a large U-Haul trlr jammed packed with our furniture & stuff.
1982 Nissan Sentra 1st brand new car
12 cars in 36yrs
1988 Toyota Corolla
2000 Buick LaSabre
Quote from: allniter89 on July 28, 2019, 11:08:51 PM
1973 Ford Galaxy
1976 Ford Galaxy s/w
You mean Galaxie? Because the Galaxy is a much newer car that's an suv.
I have had the following:
1979 Dodge Adventurer 100 (or 150?) from 2002-03
1993 Ford Mustang 2.3 2003-06
2005 Kia Rio 2006-10 (first car I bought relatively new)
1995 Pontiac Grand Am 2010-11
1997 Honda Accord 2011
2007 Saturn Aura XE 2011-17
1999 Ford Ranger 2019-?
I'm buying the Ranger from my brother. He has had it about two years. It has some issues, but it gets him to and from every day. He is selling it to me, because he is getting ready to buy his wife a newer car and start driving her old car. I'm getting the family discount on it. :sombrero:
In my case, with approximately 40 years of adulthood, surprisingly few - just four!
All purchased new, all (except the current one) driven until they basically died.
1981 Plymouth Reliant K about 57,000 miles; some idiot ran a stop sign, hit me, and totaled it (nobody was hurt). Was starting to fall apart anyway; cheaply made.
1990 Plymouth Laser about 128,000 miles; driven until it died
1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse about 247,000 miles; driven until it died
2015 Hyundai Sonata about 75,000 miles and counting. Outside of normal maintenance it has yet to require any unscheduled repair - super reliable so far
Best looking and the most fun to drive - the Laser.
Best technology features - the Sonata, and not even close.
I did have a well used 1968 Cadillac Coupe de Ville while in college in the late 1970's (belonged to parents).
In order:
1997 Jeep Wrangler (2003-2007)
This was actually my parents' car but I was the primary driver through high school and took it to college with me freshman year. Four cylinder 5-speed manual. A fantastic car for high school - fun to drive, great in the very snowy climate I lived in (though the soft top was less than ideal at times), popular with the ladies, but with a 4-banger it was too slow to do anything really stupid. I do credit this car with making me really appreciate that it's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow though.
1976 Subaru Wagon, 4 Speed Manual (2006)
This vehicle was on its very last legs. purchased as a joke for $200 with some friends during the summer following senior year of high school. We had the car for a total of a week as we jumped it and destroyed it. I had the title in my name. In hindsight I feel guilty about what we did to that car because the 1976 Subaru is quite a rare beast and I don't think we appreciated what we had at the time. It was a total rust bucket though so probably not actually restorable anyway.
2002 Jeep Liberty (2007-Present)
I inherited this vehicle from my uncle who passed away in 2007. I've had it ever since. It's life highlights were being stolen in 2011 and taken for a rally through the Arizona desert and a trip to Alaska up the Dalton last year. It's been my rock through most of my adult life. It's been in second car duty for most of this decade so only has 138K on it. I expect to keep it for a long time because it's cheap to keep around and a new vehicle with its capabilities (towing a decent amount of weight, real 4WD with low range) is insanely expensive given how often I actually need those features.
1990 Dodge Colt (2007-2008)
I bought this vehicle for $600 as gas was getting really expensive in Seattle. Great car - four on the floor, no power anything (even manual steering), had a rolled back odometer. The car was bulletproof though and like driving a go-cart. I sold it after almost two years before I moved to Wyoming for $800.
1997 Ford Escort (2011-2012)
This had been my grandma's car but she stopped driving so it was just sitting up in Idaho. When my Liberty was stolen I used this vehicle most of the time and parked the Liberty in a secure location as it was getting fixed. It was a car - automatic transmission and no guts whatsoever. Even though I lived in Tucson I almost never ran the A/C because the car would barely move with it on. As I left Arizona I gave the car back to my parents, who promptly sold it.
2001 Honda Accord (2013-2015)
Another free vehicle - a very close family friend passed away and I ended up with it. It was a great roadtrip car - I got it in 2013 with only 72,000 miles. It was a 4-cylinder automatic. I put 50K on it over a couple years before trading it in.
2015 VW Golf (2015-Present)
My first new vehicle purchase. It's one of very few Golf 7 three-doors in the states that is not a GTI. It's got a 1.8 liter turbo and 5-speed manual though so is fun to drive. It's the absolute perfect roadtrip car for one person, a ton of fun to drive, and gets well over 40 MPG on the highway, so I intend to keep it for a very long time. It'll be paid off in a few months too so that will be awesome.
Got my first car in July of 1992. The list:
1983 Buick Lesabre (The Boat, V8, rear wheel drive) July 1992-August 1997
1997 Chevy Malibu (Nothing but trouble. Steering system made constant grinding sound). August 1997-December 1998
1999 Chevy Lumina. Drove it like crazy. December 1998-July 2003
2001 Chevy Impala: Traded in the Lumina after the alternator blew out on it. July 2003-November 2004
2005 Chevy Impala: Decided to get a new one when the 01 had problems. Had a Ford Excursion as a rental. November 2004-February 2010
2008 Ford Edge Limited: Wanted an SUV with AWD. February 2010-present
My first car was my dad's 1996 Toyota RAV4, drove it to pass my license test in 2003, then it became my full time car in 2007. Had it for only seven months before I got rear-ended hard on Howe Avenue in the Sacramento suburb of Arden. Put about 10K miles on it when I had it.
Next car - inspired by my best friend who had a Ford Focus at the time - was a 2004 Ford Focus with Zetec engine. Had it for 3 years before it was totaled when an older driver who wasn't wearing his glasses blew a stop sign in midtown Sacramento and I ran into his Buick. I put probably 75-80K on that car.
After that, my dad helped get me another Focus, this time a 2009 model. Got it at 43K miles, it's currently at 161K miles. I still have it and got it smog checked yesterday, but that's no longer my primary car.
In 2017, inspired by the idea of "cheap fun V8 craigslist car!" in my head and also by growing up watching NASCAR, I got a 1997 Ford Thunderbird that was at 82K miles. As others in this thread who've bought used can attest, maintenance for older vehicles can be tricky if the previous owners cut corners, and the first few months I had it, it was definitely a lot of backtracking. But it is also the car I have enjoyed the absolute most (aided in part by the TCCOA community on Facebook) due to its torque, handling, plush leather seats, and spaciousness. Currently in nearly 2 years of ownership, I've gotten the car up to 111K miles so far.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/1838/41186526430_1bd4c8fc49_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/25KvHoE)DSC_2247 (https://flic.kr/p/25KvHoE) by Chris Sampang (https://www.flickr.com/photos/csampang/), on Flickr
2011 Ford Crown Victoria LX (2016-present)
2007 Ford Mustang Pony Package convertible (2007-present)
1997 Ford Crown Victoria LX (1996-2016)
1976 Ford LTD Landau coupe (1993-2010)
1989 Chevy Caprice Classic sedan (1992-1996)
1985 Mercury Grand Marquis LS sedan (1988-1992)
1976 Ford LTD 4-door pillared-hardtop (1985-1988)
1974 Chevy Impala 4-door hardtop (1984)
1969 Ford LTD Brougham 4-door sedan (1982-1984)
So far, I've owned four vehicles since I graduated high school in 1988:
1988 Olds Calais (1988-94)
1994 Ford Explorer (1994-98)
1998 Chevy Tahoe (1998-2019)
2019 Chevy Equinox (2019-now)
I've had just two, unlikely to change soon:
2000 Ford Taurus (2006—09; don't remember mileage)
2010 Mazda 3 (2009–; currently 68k miles)
A total of five:
1975 Buick Century wagon - willed to me in 1987 when my father passed away
1984 Ford Tempo sedan - bought used in 1987
1988 Honda Prelude SI - bought used in 1993
1999 Ford Contour sedan - bought used in 2000
2012 Ford Focus sedan - bought used in 2014
Six cars altogether that I have owned and operated.
1987 Pontiac Sunbird -- bought new in May 1987, traded in
1994 Geo Prizm -- bought new in October 1993, met an unfortunate end
2001 Saturn L200 -- bought new in January 2001, met an unfortunate end
2009 Hyundai Sonata -- bought used (from rental fleet) in January 2009, my son now has it
2009 Hyundai Genesis -- bought used in October 2013, low mileage, traded in
2016 Hyundai Genesis -- bought new in December 2015
The first three I put on over 130k miles. The Sonata, between my son and me, has about 120k on it and is still kicking.
I traded the first Genesis in when the new model went to all-wheel drive.
I have some overlap as I'll be including both my and my wife's cars...
1987ish Dodge Colt Hatchback (Used)
1992 Nissan Sentra (Used)
1997 Chrysler Sebring Convertible (Used)
2002 Toyota Camry (New; eventually had a Lemon Law lawsuit on it separate from the brake issue years later. Got a settlement; kept the car)
2004 Honda Pilot (Lease)
2005 Honda Accord (Lease)
2007 Honda Ridgeline (Lease)
2009 Honda CRV (New, bought)
2011 Honda Pilot (New, bought)
2019 Honda Insight (New, bought, some day I'll write up a new car summary about it here)
1995 Pontiac Sunfire, bought new, 135K miles, ran until dead (head gasket)
1998 Dodge Neon, bought used with 18K miles, sold it at 120K miles to person to use as a beater
1996 Chevy Lumina, bought from friend's grandmother at 42K miles, 137K miles, ran until dead (blown cylinder)
2004 Subaru Legacy, bought new, gave to my ex wife on divorce, I believe she had it until 120K miles until a bad catalytic converter
2011 Subaru Legacy, bought new, totaled in accident where overturning truck toppled on top at 29K miles (I walked out of that accident uninjured)
2013 Subaru Legacy, bought new, 135K miles and no issues so far at all
The list includes all cars in my name, and cars in my wife's name during our marriage (including cars we owned that were driven by our kids). An * indicates it was bought used.
1972 Chevrolet Vega* (total lemon - I was young and naive)
1976 Dodge Colt
1979 Ford Fairmont
1981 Dodge Colt
1983 Ford Escort
1984 Mercury Lynx*
1986 Chevrolet Celebrity (another lemon - notice a trend?)
1987 Mitsubishi Mirage
1990 Ford Conversion Van*
1990 Ford Taurus*
1997 Geo Metro*
1997 Ford Escort
1998 Ford Escort* - finally died at 240K miles.
1998 Dodge Conversion Van
1999 Pontiac Grand Prix* (loved this car but it was also a lemon - you could not pay me to buy a GM car today).
2001 Ford Escape*
2002 Dodge Durango*
2006 Ford Fusion
2016 Nissan Rogue
1. 1981 Plymouth Champ - manual 4 speed, sporty little car with split differential, so could effectively drive it as a 5 speed overdrive before that was a thing. Also, effectively a 2 speed reverse! Totalled it out looking for my buddies car in the grocery store parking lot instead of at the 3/4 ton Ford pickup stopped to turn left at the post office. Had 110K miles when killed by my inattentiveness.
2. 1976 Chevrolet Custom Deluxe Heavy Half ton - 350 2bbl that had to get swapped to 4 bbl Holley with Edelbrock intake manifold. Also modified with dual exhaust with Turbo mufflers and a flex fan. 3 speed auto. Vinyl seats and rubber flooring, so could just clean it inside and out at the carwash. Had 130K miles when sold.
3. 1985 Olds Cutlass Supreme - 3.8 V6 and 3 speed auto. Only motor I ever had to rebuild despite religious maintenance. Sold to my dad after his 3rd divorce and ultimately had to repo it from him. Lots of poor life choices involved there on his part, but tried to be a father to him somewhat that he never was for me and failed as he pretty much drank himself to death. Ended up trading the car to my best friend for a .58 muzzle loader. Still have the gun, but he definitely doesn't still have the car. Had 120K miles when parted with.
4. 2000 Dodge 3500 dually - Cummins 6 speed manual 4x4 - only vehicle I ever bought new, because you couldn't find used diesel trucks in 2000. Diesel went up in price a couple of years after buying it, but still cheaper to drive than a V10 version. Hauled a camper and my boat at the same time without much stress. Still have the truck and in fact drove it to work today since my daily driver is getting a new bumper and paint job. Has 180K miles and counting.
5. 2001 Mazda Protege 2.0 - 2.0 l 4 speed auto - best automatic by far that I've had. My brother got another car and had it trucked to me from Seattle to Fayetteville, AR with the title in the glove box since he couldn't get squat in trade and needed something to drive when he came to visit. Became my daily driver to save on diesel, until timing belt let go at 170,000. Got a head job and new belt, but started blowing smoke on startup, likely from valve seal popping. Donated to my church and had it hauled off after sitting a few months. Had 198K miles.
6. 2006 Honda Odyssey EX-L - 3.5 V6 VTEC/VCM and 5 speed auto - my wife's van, which I end up driving as much as her for the sake of our family and the motoring public. Replaced a 2001 Subaru Forester that I totalled out pulling out in front of a Cadillac blowing past a line of traffic turning into Wal-Mart doing about 40MPH. Flipped us on our side it hit so hard, but not a scratch on any of us. She got to pick the van since I killed her SUV, and even though it isn't much fun to drive, handles well for a van and will flat out scoot when VTEC kicks in around 5K RPM. Still have and fixing to haul a bunch of girls to church camp in it. Has 178K miles and counting.
7. 2013 Subaru WRX hatchback - base model 2.5 flat four turbo with 5 speed manual. Only options original purchaser got was STI short throw shifter and cat back dual exhaust from factory. Kept it bone stock, unlike virtually every other WRX. Car is an absolute blast and I have a tendency to get into a little trouble in it. My wife got in a hurry a few weeks ago and ran the back half of the right side of the Odyssey along the front left bumper, so it's getting a new bumper and paint at the moment. Has 78K miles and counting.
Quote from: mrhappy1261 on July 28, 2019, 11:13:13 PM
Quote from: allniter89 on July 28, 2019, 11:08:51 PM
1973 Ford Galaxy
1976 Ford Galaxy s/w
You mean Galaxie? Because the Galaxy is a much newer car that's an suv.
If the above wasn't a typo; I'm guessing that the above weren't North American market ones. For such market, all Galaxies had the
500 suffix (Galaxie 500) from '64 onward and the final year for the Galaxie 500 was '7
4. For '76, aside from the fleet & Canadian-only Custom 500s, all full-size Fords in the North American market were LTDs of sorts (base, Brougham, Landau).
Car owned | Year bought |
1974 Monte Carlo | June 1984 |
1979 Olds Cutlass | 1986 |
1980 Olds Starfire Firenza | 1988 |
1987 Ford Mustang | April 1990 |
1983 Buick Skylark T-Type | ??? |
1987 Chevy Cavalier Z24 | ??? |
1989 Dodge Spirit | ??? |
1989 Olds Cutlass Supreme Intl Series (5-speed, rare) | ??? |
1992 Pontiac Grand Prix STE | 1994 |
1993 Chrysler Concorde | 1995 |
1988 Chevy Truck | 1996 |
1990 Ford Mustang | 1996 |
1997 Chevy Truck | 2005 |
2001 Ford Mustang | October 2000 |
2005 Honda Pilot | April 2015 to June 2016 |
2007 Ford F-150 | March 2011 |
2008 Ford Mustang | October 2008 |
2011 Ford F-150 Lariat Limited | Dec 2016 - Currently own |
2017 Chevy SS | March 2017 - Currently own |
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 28, 2019, 04:29:53 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 28, 2019, 04:26:48 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 28, 2019, 03:54:09 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 28, 2019, 03:48:54 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 28, 2019, 03:44:47 PM
One thing about buying new is that you know it's been broken in and maintained properly (assuming you do so), although of course if you buy a car from a family member you'd probably have a good idea on that as well.
"Broken in" new car? In what way? A brand new car doesn't have that many miles on it.
Most cars when new have a break-in schedule usually for the first 500-1,000 miles. Usually the user manual is very specific on how what RPMs to avoid and not going to certain speeds.
Oh, so he's saying that you know that you have broken it in rather than buying it as already "broken in."
That's what I assumed he meant. Most people don't pay attention to the break-in period which can sometimes lead to engine damage or more typically leaks that might void a powertrain warranty. That kind of problem is more typical of a performance car where someone is more likely to try to drive it harshly fresh off the lot.
Yes, that's what I meant–if you buy a new car and you pay attention to the proper break-in procedure, you'll know it's been done properly, whereas with a used car you usually won't have any idea. (Hence why I said "assuming you do so." )
I've only had 2 cars properly registered in my name (IE, that weren't shared or parents' cars):
* A 2008 Honda Accord EX-L that I received from my father and drove to ~140K before selling in 2019;
* My current car, a 2018 Audi A5 Prestige that I bought used at 9000 miles in April. I've already put ~5000 miles on it in the 3 months I've owned it.
Other cars I've daily driven:
* A 2003 Honda Civic LX that I shared with my sister until she totalled it in 2013;
* A 2012 Honda Civic EX that I drove for a couple years before swapping it with the '08 Accord.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 29, 2019, 05:07:56 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 28, 2019, 04:29:53 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 28, 2019, 04:26:48 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 28, 2019, 03:54:09 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 28, 2019, 03:48:54 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 28, 2019, 03:44:47 PM
One thing about buying new is that you know it's been broken in and maintained properly (assuming you do so), although of course if you buy a car from a family member you'd probably have a good idea on that as well.
"Broken in" new car? In what way? A brand new car doesn't have that many miles on it.
Most cars when new have a break-in schedule usually for the first 500-1,000 miles. Usually the user manual is very specific on how what RPMs to avoid and not going to certain speeds.
Oh, so he's saying that you know that you have broken it in rather than buying it as already "broken in."
That's what I assumed he meant. Most people don't pay attention to the break-in period which can sometimes lead to engine damage or more typically leaks that might void a powertrain warranty. That kind of problem is more typical of a performance car where someone is more likely to try to drive it harshly fresh off the lot.
Yes, that's what I meant–if you buy a new car and you pay attention to the proper break-in procedure, you'll know it's been done properly, whereas with a used car you usually won't have any idea. (Hence why I said "assuming you do so." )
Your logic is circular:
1) New cars are properly broken-in
2) Used cars weren't necessarily correctly broken-in
But, all used cars were at once new cars. So where do you distinguish between "new cars that are properly broken-in" and "new cars that are not properly broken in and then make their way to the secondary market"?
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on July 29, 2019, 07:36:49 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 29, 2019, 05:07:56 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 28, 2019, 04:29:53 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 28, 2019, 04:26:48 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 28, 2019, 03:54:09 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 28, 2019, 03:48:54 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 28, 2019, 03:44:47 PM
One thing about buying new is that you know it's been broken in and maintained properly (assuming you do so), although of course if you buy a car from a family member you'd probably have a good idea on that as well.
"Broken in" new car? In what way? A brand new car doesn't have that many miles on it.
Most cars when new have a break-in schedule usually for the first 500-1,000 miles. Usually the user manual is very specific on how what RPMs to avoid and not going to certain speeds.
Oh, so he's saying that you know that you have broken it in rather than buying it as already "broken in."
That's what I assumed he meant. Most people don't pay attention to the break-in period which can sometimes lead to engine damage or more typically leaks that might void a powertrain warranty. That kind of problem is more typical of a performance car where someone is more likely to try to drive it harshly fresh off the lot.
Yes, that's what I meant–if you buy a new car and you pay attention to the proper break-in procedure, you'll know it's been done properly, whereas with a used car you usually won't have any idea. (Hence why I said "assuming you do so." )
Your logic is circular:
1) New cars are properly broken-in
2) Used cars weren't necessarily correctly broken-in
But, all used cars were at once new cars. So where do you distinguish between "new cars that are properly broken-in" and "new cars that are not properly broken in and then make their way to the secondary market"?
It's not circular at all. I said if you buy a new car and break it in properly, you know it's been properly broken in. Surely you aren't going to disagree with that rather obvious proposition.
If you buy a used car, you don't know whether it was properly broken in unless you know the prior owner and know he did so (example: I know my father broke his cars in correctly). The used car MAY have been. It may not have been. Doesn't mean buying a used car is a bad thing, of course.
The price will reflect it - if the used car lot knows it was handled poorly, it will price it to move.
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on July 29, 2019, 08:05:03 PM
The price will reflect it - if the used car lot knows it was handled poorly, it will price it to move.
Unless the lot doesn't know, or doesn't care. How obvious to used-car buyers that a car wasn't properly broken in? I have a mechanic check it out to catch stuff like that, but not everyone is that careful.
Quote from: oscar on July 29, 2019, 08:10:27 PM
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on July 29, 2019, 08:05:03 PM
The price will reflect it - if the used car lot knows it was handled poorly, it will price it to move.
Unless the lot doesn't know, or doesn't care. How obvious to used-car buyers that a car wasn't properly broken in? I have a mechanic check it out to catch stuff like that, but not everyone is that careful.
When I bought my used car, I insisted that the dealer include a rider on the sale contract that I could take the car to an independent garage, with a full-price return contingency upon the mechanic's suggestion. Gave me piece of mind at the time, the dealer didn't hesitate (which was an encouraging sign), and car still runs great 8 years later.
Quote from: oscar on July 28, 2019, 08:06:55 PM
^ I agree that the depreciation hit upon driving the car off the lot isn't a big deal, if your plan is spread that hit over 200K miles or longer.
I tend to buy new just to get exactly the car and options I want. In one instance, what I wanted was at a dealer on Long Island, so that was transported (cost me a few hundred dollars) to a local dealer in the D.C. area.
Likewise, but I'm a bit surprised they charged you for it. I did the same through the same dealer twice for my vehicles and wasn't charged at all for the service. One, the Caliber, was on a lot in Springfield, Illinois. They traded a minivan (Grand Caravan) for it. Those move faster than manual transmission Calibers. The Renegade was on a lot in eastern Ohio. I think they traded a minivan or a Cherokee for it. Either one goes faster than a manual transmission Renegade.
Just four on my list, two of which I still drive: 1978 Chevrolet Impala, 1986 Nissan Maxima, 1994 Saturn SL2, and 2005 Toyota Camry.
I maintain my vehicles, so I have never gotten rid of a car as a result of powertrain failure. The 1978 Impala went because it was an under-featured base model, and the 1986 Maxima went because it was 22 years old, had been parked outdoors for 12 years, and had developed increasingly intractable body systems problems such as wheel arch rust, indelible staining on the driver's seat, etc. The Saturn is my current daily driver and turned 25 last February. I think it is good to go for at least another five years, though it too has body systems problems (peeling headliner cover, unsecured trim pieces, etc.) and non-functional A/C that I do not think can be economically rendered leakproof unless I train myself to undertake all of the work and invest in (expensive) tools for auto A/C repair.
As for buying used, in my family we typically buy new but have had good experiences (late 1990's) with low-mileage used. Low mileage cuts down on the possibility of problems due to variability in maintenance, but I think it is still worth investigating repair histories associated with a given candidate make/model/design generation, to ensure you aren't buying into design mistakes you are not prepared to deal with. With recent vehicles, a lot of maintenance tends to fall due at around the 100,000-mile mark--things like brake pads, possibly brake rotors, coolant (at least the first change, if not the second), spark plugs, and timing belt if the engine is so equipped. If I were buying used to keep for an extended time, my starting point would be to buy before much of this maintenance is performed, to ensure it is done correctly and with parts and fluids of good quality.
As for Formulaone's observation about 60% of Americans being able to get by with subcompacts, I agree in general, but in the American market subcompacts are so strongly positioned as entry-level vehicles that I have to move up to compacts to reach my personal sweet spot in terms of features and NVH suppression. I don't like rear drums and 3-1 downshift logic.
Quote from: J N Winkler on July 29, 2019, 11:08:24 PM
As for Formulaone's observation about 60% of Americans being able to get by with subcompacts, I agree in general, but in the American market subcompacts are so strongly positioned as entry-level vehicles that I have to move up to compacts to reach my personal sweet spot in terms of features and NVH suppression. I don't like rear drums and 3-1 downshift logic.
Sub-Compact or Compact tends to be what I'm buying nowadays for daily drivers. The only stipulation I'm finding is that I do get a lot of use of things like four wheel disc brakes and I'm finding AWD very handy since it lets me avoid low level chain controls in the winter. Either way I don't feel so bad about an entry level car getting some cosmetic damage, being sold off on the cheap or handed down to a family member.
1. Hand-me-down from Mom, a 1979 AMC Spirit. She didn't give it to me for free, I had to pay $1500 which was about $1400 more than that POS was worth.
2. 1986 Honda Civic CRX. I drove it for about 100K miles. Mom returned from overseas after she and her then-husband broke up and she had no money and I gave that thing to her for free (though it had some mechanical issues at that point, which was my revenge for the AMC thing).
3. 1996 Toyota RAV4 which was one of the first RAV4's ever sold by that dealership. I had considered a Ford Explorer but wanted something smaller, saw that this new thing called a RAV4 was about to come on the market and waited about 3 months without any car at all after giving the CRX to Mom until a RAV4 finally showed up in America. I drove that one until 2012, about 180K miles.
4. 2012 RAV4 now has a little over 80K miles on it.
Quote from: 1 on July 28, 2019, 08:02:24 AM
Why do you need so many cars if cars generally last about 10 years?
I bought almost all those cars as wrecks (under 500$), so at a certain moment, I changed car twice a year.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 30, 2019, 12:32:21 AM
Quote from: J N Winkler on July 29, 2019, 11:08:24 PM
As for Formulaone's observation about 60% of Americans being able to get by with subcompacts, I agree in general, but in the American market subcompacts are so strongly positioned as entry-level vehicles that I have to move up to compacts to reach my personal sweet spot in terms of features and NVH suppression.
Sub-Compact or Compact tends to be what I'm buying nowadays for daily drivers.
As far as buying new vehicles are concerned; trying to buy a new domestic-branded subcompact or compact car recently became harder if not impossible. Dodge (& Chrysler) don't have anything in that category (the last year for the compact Dart was 2017 IIRC). Chevy just recently killed off its Cruze (for a shortened 2019 model year) and I believe (not 100% sure) the subcompact Sonic & the Spark are also gone as well. For 2019, the only small car available at Ford is the subcompact Fiesta; I would've thought the compact Focus would've outlasted the Fiesta production-wise due to its higher sales numbers.
Should gas ever soar past $4/gallon
nationwide again; the so-called Big-Three may regret their recent IMHO penny-wise/dollar-foolish manuvers
Quote from: PHLBOS on July 30, 2019, 09:18:35 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 30, 2019, 12:32:21 AM
Quote from: J N Winkler on July 29, 2019, 11:08:24 PM
As for Formulaone's observation about 60% of Americans being able to get by with subcompacts, I agree in general, but in the American market subcompacts are so strongly positioned as entry-level vehicles that I have to move up to compacts to reach my personal sweet spot in terms of features and NVH suppression.
Sub-Compact or Compact tends to be what I'm buying nowadays for daily drivers.
As far as buying new vehicles are concerned; trying to buy a new domestic-branded subcompact or compact car recently became harder if not impossible. Dodge (& Chrysler) don't have anything in that category (the last year for the compact Dart was 2017 IIRC). Chevy just recently killed off its Cruze (for a shortened 2019 model year) and I believe (not 100% sure) the subcompact Sonic & the Spark are also gone as well. For 2019, the only small car available at Ford is the subcompact Fiesta; I would've thought the compact Focus would've outlasted the Fiesta production-wise due to its higher sales numbers.
Should gas ever soar past $4/gallon nationwide again; the so-called Big-Three may regret their recent IMHO penny-wise/dollar-foolish manuvers
I can't speak for the others, but Ford is still making those cars overseas in some form or another. Should gas trends rise significantly, they'll just ship those designs to NA. Ford's current Ranger largely came from abroad, as did the first gen Focus and Fiesta. However, it seems like they'll electrify or hybridize their current CUV/SUV/truck line-up before going back to small cars.
Quote from: DaBigE on July 30, 2019, 10:35:45 AM
I can't speak for the others, but Ford is still making those cars overseas in some form or another. Should gas trends rise significantly, they'll just ship those designs to NA. Ford's current Ranger largely came from abroad, as did the first gen Focus and Fiesta. However, it seems like they'll electrify or hybridize their current CUV/SUV/truck line-up before going back to small cars.
You're right that the Ford Motor Company isn't getting entirely out of the business of producing smaller cars on a global level, but I think it's a bit of an oversimplification to say that Ford will just "ship those designs to North America" if and when fuel prices spike and demand for smaller cars increases. In addition to the major effort associated with modifying a vehicle just to comply with U.S. safety and emissions regulations, automakers go to considerable lengths to tailor designs, equipment packages, marketing approaches, etc. to meet the specific demands of the North American marketplace. And with little exception these days, North American-ized versions of global designs are assembled in North American plants to take advantage of favorable trade agreements.
To the best of my knowledge, the closest America has seen to an unmodified, untailored import in recent history was when GM rebadged the Belgium-built Opel Astra as the Saturn Astra in 2008. Auto enthusiast magazines praised the car's undiluted European handling and styling, but American consumers complained about such ancillary points as the Astra's awkward, small cupholders and the lack of iPod integration–and the car didn't sell.
But even a quick badge engineering job like the Astra takes a little bit of time. And if Ford is already up against stalwart competitors like Honda and Toyota–still churning out American-tuned Civics and Corollas from plants in Indiana, Mississippi, and Ontario–the blue oval brand will be starting a small car sales race that it routinely loses from even farther behind.
Quote from: briantroutman on July 30, 2019, 11:10:45 AM
Quote from: DaBigE on July 30, 2019, 10:35:45 AM
I can't speak for the others, but Ford is still making those cars overseas in some form or another. Should gas trends rise significantly, they'll just ship those designs to NA. Ford's current Ranger largely came from abroad, as did the first gen Focus and Fiesta. However, it seems like they'll electrify or hybridize their current CUV/SUV/truck line-up before going back to small cars.
You're right that the Ford Motor Company isn't getting entirely out of the business of producing smaller cars on a global level, but I think it's a bit of an oversimplification to say that Ford will just "ship those designs to North America" if and when fuel prices spike and demand for smaller cars increases. In addition to the major effort associated with modifying a vehicle just to comply with U.S. safety and emissions regulations, automakers go to considerable lengths to tailor designs, equipment packages, marketing approaches, etc. to meet the specific demands of the North American marketplace. And with little exception these days, North American-ized versions of global designs are assembled in North American plants to take advantage of favorable trade agreements.
I never said it would be an overnight process, neither in manufacturing nor long-term fuel price changes. But I think you're over-complicating the situation and not giving these now highly global companies enough credit. Moving a vehicle from one market to another is nothing new. The base design/R&D is largely done (chassis, major body components, engine), a process which sucks up a lot of time, resources, and money. Both the Ranger and Focus took time to adapt the design to the US market and didn't hit the streets immediately following the press releases that the models would be coming to the US, but it didn't take a decade either. Similar could be said for the Transit and Transit Connect vans. As far as regulations go, in some cases, US standards are behind those of say, Europe.
Quote from: DaBigE on July 30, 2019, 11:35:19 AM
I never said it would be an overnight process, neither in manufacturing nor long-term fuel price changes.
That's just it; most if not all of the fuel price changes (mainly increases) during the last 46 years usually happen with very little advance notice. Auto manufacturers that already have production models in their line-up that can better cope with high fuel prices were already ahead of the game. While we can laugh & mock at vehicles like the AMC Gremlin, the Chevy Vega, the Ford Pinto and the then-newly-released Mustang II (one of the better-timed new-car releases); sales of those models soared when gas prices skyrocketed during the fall of '73 and Chrysler, which had no real small cars of their own in their line-up outside of the Mitsubishi-based Colt & the British-built Cricket, was literally caught with their pants down & bled the most red ink during those years. The subcompact FWD-based Omni/Horizon wouldn't roll out until the 1978 model year; they needed such a car in their line-up 4 years earlier.
Conversely & in reaction to gas prices soaring in 1979-1980, as well as increasing CAFE standards for each model year, Ford planned to offer a very fuel-efficient diesel variant of their upcoming US-marketed Escort; but the release of that option wasn't offered until the Escort was already in the market for 3 years and gas prices started crashing down (something that
nobody predicted would happen just a few years earlier). As a result, sales of the diesel-powered Escort weren't enough to keep it around & Ford quietly dropped that option after two years.
Quote from: DaBigE on July 30, 2019, 11:35:19 AMBoth the Ranger and Focus took time to adapt the design to the US market and didn't hit the streets immediately following the press releases that the models would be coming to the US, but it didn't take a decade either.
In the US-market, the Focus had/has a continuous model run since 2000. While it may have taken longer to bring the newer-design model into the US market (for 2012); Ford
still offered its existing Focus model during that time. So while such was an older-design vehicle at the time; the market was still covered. When gas prices ballooned circa 2007-2008, the Focus became Ford's best selling model.
Such was the opposite in the case of the Ranger, there were
still a several year gap period between when the prior Ranger truck was offered and when this new one rolled out into the US market. During those years, Ford literally had
nothing to offer for those wanting a
non-full-size pick-up truck. As a result, Toyota, Nissan & even Chevy/GMC were probably more than glad to accommodate those would-be customers.
Quote from: DaBigE on July 30, 2019, 11:35:19 AMSimilar could be said for the Transit and Transit Connect vans.
In the case of the full-size Transit van; Ford was still offering its older E-series vans (which were still best-sellers in their class) during the Transit van's development.
Quote from: DaBigE on July 30, 2019, 11:35:19 AMAs far as regulations go, in some cases, US standards are behind those of say, Europe.
Actually, the US has had safety & emissions/pollution controls standards since the 1960s (maybe even earlier for safety); and such were upgraded/added
multiple times since their inceptions. Standards for fuel economy (CAFE) were initially signed into law circa 1975 and have been in effect since the 1978 model year. Over the years if not decades, such IMHO has indeed created the unintended consequences of manufacturers designing & selling larger, heavier vehicles in the form of SUVs and CUVs. And while some will say
oh those can be offered in electric and/or hybrid form; the truth of the matter is until such is perfected, the gasoline-powered variants will still dominate the sales under normal economic conditions.
Quote from: PHLBOS on July 30, 2019, 12:34:59 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on July 30, 2019, 11:35:19 AMBoth the Ranger and Focus took time to adapt the design to the US market and didn't hit the streets immediately following the press releases that the models would be coming to the US, but it didn't take a decade either.
In the US-market, the Focus had/has a continuous model run since 2000. While it may have taken longer to bring the newer-design model into the US market (for 2012); Ford still offered its existing Focus model during that time. So while such was an older-design vehicle at the time; the market was still covered. When gas prices ballooned circa 2007-2008, the Focus became Ford's best selling model.
Such was the opposite in the case of the Ranger, there were still a several year gap period between when the prior Ranger truck was offered and when this new one rolled out into the US market. During those years, Ford literally had nothing to offer for those wanting a non-full-size pick-up truck. As a result, Toyota, Nissan & even Chevy/GMC were probably more than glad to accommodate those would-be customers.
I'm focusing purely on product development and where they were developed, not design refreshes. The original (pre-2000 US-model) Focus was originally a European vehicle brought over and adapted to the US. As for the Ranger, IIRC, the 2019+ version the US knows today originated from Australia. The years 2012-2018 for the Ranger in the US are largely irrelevant to the discussion, as Ford purposely ended US production. How long it took to reappear in the US market isn't the point of what I am talking about. Similar with the Transit & Transit Connect - yes, the E-Series is still in production, but the Transit & Transit Connect vans were models created elsewhere and brought to the US market. Conversely, the Mustang was designed in the US, but is now available in markets outside the US.
Quote from: DaBigE on July 30, 2019, 01:12:42 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on July 30, 2019, 12:34:59 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on July 30, 2019, 11:35:19 AMBoth the Ranger and Focus took time to adapt the design to the US market and didn't hit the streets immediately following the press releases that the models would be coming to the US, but it didn't take a decade either.
In the US-market, the Focus had/has a continuous model run since 2000. While it may have taken longer to bring the newer-design model into the US market (for 2012); Ford still offered its existing Focus model during that time. So while such was an older-design vehicle at the time; the market was still covered. When gas prices ballooned circa 2007-2008, the Focus became Ford's best selling model.
Such was the opposite in the case of the Ranger, there were still a several year gap period between when the prior Ranger truck was offered and when this new one rolled out into the US market. During those years, Ford literally had nothing to offer for those wanting a non-full-size pick-up truck. As a result, Toyota, Nissan & even Chevy/GMC were probably more than glad to accommodate those would-be customers.
I'm focusing purely on product development and where they were developed, not design refreshes. The original (pre-2000 US-model) Focus was originally a European vehicle brought over and adapted to the US. As for the Ranger, IIRC, the 2019+ version the US knows today originated from Australia. The years 2012-2018 for the Ranger in the US are largely irrelevant to the discussion, as Ford purposely ended US production. How long it took to reappear in the US market isn't the point of what I am talking about. Similar with the Transit & Transit Connect - yes, the E-Series is still in production, but the Transit & Transit Connect vans were models created elsewhere and brought to the US market. Conversely, the Mustang was designed in the US, but is now available in markets outside the US.
The bottom line here & in the eyes of the general public who typically don't give a flip about a product that's in the design process (they're only interested in what's available
today not three to five years from now) is that when there's a sizeable time-gap in a manufacturer's product line-up, like there was in the case of the fore-mentioned Ranger; such can have a lasting consequence in both current & future sales.
A would-be Ranger buyer shunned by Ford (before the new Ranger rolled out) would probably go to a Toyota dealer and buy a Tacoma truck instead. Years later, if that said-customer want to upsize to a full-size truck & is happy with the treatment that Toyota gave; that individual's more likely to look at and even buy Toyota's larger Tundra truck instead of a Ford F-series. As a result, Ford just lost that potential customer because they didn't have something smaller (& cheaper) in the mix.
Yes, it was Ford's own decision to end production of the old Ranger without having a successor truck immediately ready for the US market. More recently, it was also their decision to not sell nor offer most car lines in the US market anymore. The sales fallout from the former
could possibly be repeated for the latter (this is why such is relevant for discussion) should fuel prices & the economy go the wrong way... even for a short duration (months).
'88 Chevy Spectrum Express (Isuzu i-Mark). Sold to a family friend, who ran it into the ground in about six months.
'95 Honda Civic LX. Totaled at about 130,000 miles. I walked away from the accident.
'02 Saturn SL2 Sedan. I liked this car a lot. It was inexpensive but decently roomy, the plastic, sorry, polymer doors were a big salespoint, and it didn't weigh a lot so the engine felt faster than it was specced. Ditched at around 172,000 miles after the shifter broke (!) and I was getting worried about the suspension.
'08 Honda Civic Si Sedan. The eighth-gen was the last good non-turbo Si. Ditched at 279,000 miles when the starter got iffy. That was the last straw; it was already having sway bar issues, it was due for new brakes and tires, and had taken a bit of damage when I accidentally caught it on a high curb.
'18 Honda Civic Si Sedan. Up to about 30,000 miles so far.
All manuals. Never owned an automatic.
Including the now ex-wife:
- 1979 VW Rabbit Diesel. Solid engine, but the build quality (USA assembled) was not up to the German standard.
- 1985 Plymouth Reliant. Base model. Not a bad car really.
- 1986 Dodge Aries. Totaled, bought from insurance company for $200 for parts for the above.
- 1986 Chevrolet Celebrity. Piece of garbage. Pieces fell off the car.
- 1990 Ford Tempo. Unremarkable. Until it burnt to a crisp beside the interstate.
- 1992 Ford Tempo. Unremarkable. Striped "base model".
- 1993 Ford Taurus. Good car.
- 1998 Ford Contour. Poor build quality.
- 1995 Ford Escort. Not a bad car, really.
- 1996 Ford Explorer. Bad build quaility. In major wreck, insurance company refused to total it, never was right after that.
- 1999 GMC pickup. Inherited from my father. Sold as soon as I could.
- 2001 Audi A4 station wagon. Awful build quality. Dealer was a Ford and Toyota lot, sold like 4 Audis a month, and thus had no service men who had any skills on the thing. 14 warranty claims.
- 2005 Lexus RX 300. Solid as any Toyota. Still running.
- 2006 Jeep Comander. Not bad. Too big.
- 2007 Jeep Wrangler. Thing might as well have been a 1957. Mechanicals were out of date, drank the gas, and leaked like a sieve. Paint peeled off. Garbage.
- 2007 Toyota Camry. Rear ended by a shirtless drunk on Christmas eve. In front of a cop, who beat the s*** out of him.
- 2007 Toyota Prius. Really not underpowered and really did get a zillion miles to the gallon. Until the battery wore out and a new one was $4500. Donated it for the tax write off. Until they fix battery life, not a car for serious people to buy.
- 1982 M-B C107. Ex wife bought off internet, spent $1000s on making semi road worthy and drove about 8 times.
- 2009 Toyota Venza. Esentually a Camry station wagon. Not bad.
- 2015 Lincoln MKC. Hit a deer.
- 2015 VW Jetta Diesel. Solid. VW bought it back for $2700 more than I paid for it due to the Diesel thing after 50K miles.
- 2017 Alfa Romeo Giulia. Current car. Nice, but the infotainment system was out of date compared to other brands. Has had more warranty issues than I care for so far.
Forgot one. I also briefly owned an old (1990s?) Honda Civic with more than 300,000 miles on it. But I never got it insured or tagged before getting rid of it. Honestly, I only ever really drove it once because the clutch was nearly shot.
Quote from: SP Cook on July 30, 2019, 02:48:11 PM
- 2015 VW Jetta Diesel. Solid. VW bought it back for $2700 more than I paid for it due to the Diesel thing after 50K miles.
I buddy of mine had his 9 years (but low mileage) and received about 75% of what he paid for it, thanks to their buy-back program. "Worst emissions scandal" led to the "best owner's resale value" I've ever heard of for daily drivers.
Quote
- 2017 Alfa Romeo Giulia. Current car. Nice, but the infotainment system was out of date compared to other brands. Has had more warranty issues than I care for so far.
Interesting choice. Fun to drive?
How's the Alfa's reliability? Car and Driver did a 40,000-mile test and said it was nonstop problems.
Shocker! Italian cars have poor reliability!
Quote from: kphoger on July 30, 2019, 08:45:46 PM
Shocker! Italian cars have poor reliability!
Heh. The Car and Driver review went way beyond mere "poor reliability" !!!!!
Quote from: kphoger on July 30, 2019, 08:45:46 PM
Shocker! Italian cars have poor reliability!
When I grew up, Fiat stood for "Fix It Again, Tony".
(I'm not a racist. Some of my best friends have been Italian cars. I believe that the world should be inclusive of all cars, no matter their national identity or maintenance schedule.)
Alfa Romeo. Fun to drive, heck yes. 0-whatever you want in 2 seconds. Also got a great deal.
Issues at 25K
- Four recalls. All for piddly stuff, but still.
- Auto stop start means there are two starter circuits. One failed, which meant the car would not restart when that was the one that was selected, which I suppose is just random. Left me in the middle of the highway. Had to clear the check engine to get it to reset, choose the other circuit and start.
- Oil pressure sensor failed. Engine has no dipstick, so it is 100% dependent on the sensor. No real way to tell if it is low on oil or failed sensor.
- Infotainment system gets a sat radio delivered update, mostly to the maps, every couple months. Which is fine, but it resets everything to back home, meaning metric and time measured in 24 hours w/o AM-PM.
That is more than I am used to with Toyota, but I'm old and it is fun to drive. Really the big issue is the infotainment system, which was way out of date. The 19s have the corporate Mopar system, which why they did not use that in the first place.
As with every other car I have owned with an Alexa/Siri like voice recognition system, it never understands a darn thing I say. Same with the VW and two Toyotas.
Starting in 1991 ...
1985 Chrysler LeBaron GTS
1991 GMC S15 Sierra
1994 Saturn SL1 (new)
1965 Ford Mustang (project car)
1997 Dodge Avenger (new lemon)
1989 Chevy Caprice (work car)
1998 Ford Mustang (new)
1982 Chrysler Cordoba (rescue)
2001 Ford Mustang (new)
1975 Chrysler Cordoba (eBay car)
1987 Chevy Sprint ER (work car)
2005 PT Cruiser Convertible (new lease)
2006 Ford Freestar (bought off-lease at 36k miles)
2009 Chevy Colorado (used)
1998 Ford Mustang (another one - used)
2015 Honda Civic (new-present)
2001 Saab 9-3 Viggen Convertible (for the gf...Swedish Automobile, Always Broken)
2009 Honda Fit (inherited last year...waiting for title)
Also in there that never got titled or registered
1961 Cadillac limo
1964 Cadillac limo
1983 Dodge 600 Convertible
And somewhere in the early 2000s
1986 Chevy Step Van (for work)
I think that's all but it seems like I'm forgetting something.
Quote from: jasonh300 on July 31, 2019, 09:28:03 AM
... Saab ... Always Broken
That's the Saab life.
You don't buy a used Swedish car unless you plan to make repairs every other weekend.
There have been several more vehicles in the family, but these are the one's that played some role in my life somehow:
197? Oldsmobile Cutlass (1970s - 1990/1): mom's car, first car I have vivid memories of (especially the huge, heavy doors)
198? Ford Tempo (1980s - 1992): dad's car
1990/1 Chevy Lumina* (1990/1 - 1998): first new car my parent's ever bought; turned into a huge lemon after the warranty expired (A/C out every summer, parking brake cable every couple of years - soured my parents' view of GM); given to my brother
1987 Mercury Sable (1992 - 2000): dad's car after totaling the Tempo
1997 Ford Mustang (1998 - 2008): brother's car, bought used shortly after acquiring the Lumina (couldn't stand the Chevy Lumina)
1998 Mercury Villager* (1998 - 2005): mom's car after disposing of the Lumina
2000 Ford Focus* (2000 - 2003): shared this car with my dad, learned how to drive with this car; only sold because my dad couldn't pass-up an offer
2003 Ford Focus* (2003 - 2010): shared this car with my dad, became mine outright in 2007 (most reliable car I've had to-date)
2005 Ford Freestyle* (2005 - 2016): dad's car, most reliable vehicle they've ever owned (only sold because my uncle convinced my dad it was time for something new)
2010 Ford Fusion* (2010 - 2018): my first new car, was reliable, but wanted something with a bit more room for hauling
2013 Ford Fiesta (2015 - present): wife's replacement car after she totaled her previous car
2018 Ford Escape* (2018 - present): first new car of my married life
* Bought new
1980 Chevy Citation
1983 Pontiac Grand Prix LJ
1998 Ford F-150
1998 Ford Ranger
2011 Dodge Challenger
2018 Dodge Challenger...so a total of 6.
1997 Pontiac Grand AM
2013 Dodge Dart RallyE
1968-1970: 1961 Chevy Bel Air; dad's company's old fleet car, got it for $240. Eventually replaced engine & transmission (upgraded from 283 to 327). Resold it to cousin who wanted to fix it up; got in its place:
1970-1973: "Frankenlotuscortina": Bought a wrecked 1966 Lotus Cortina; pulled engine; it was to have been transplanted into a 1965 Cortina body, which I and a few buddies subsequently did. Never got around to repainting it into the L.C. "white/green" standard. Maintenance hog; in late 1970 met my 1st wife, so ended up mostly driving her 1970 orange Datsun 510 station wagon. Still had the L.C. when we split up in '73, but it gave up the ghost soon afterward.
1973-75: Snagged my folks' old '64 Chevy Impala when they bought a Camaro in '73, drove it until early '75, when I bought...........
1975-77: an on-sale-at-end-of-model-year Fiat 128 sedan. That was with me for my initial move to the Bay Area from SoCal, it got wrecked during a rainstorm in mid-'77; sold it for scrap.
1977-81:Leased a Datsun 210 for a couple of years, but gave it up after a job change at the end of '81; did without a car, using transit to get around for about a year and a half.
1983-92: In '83, bought a Mazda 2000 truck; added a camper shell. That lasted me for 9 years, until the fall of '92 (I put on 270K miles), when I got:
1992-2011: a Dodge Ram 50, also w/shell added. My mom & dad passed away from 1997-99; I inherited their old '73 Camaro (my mom would never give that car up!) and their '91 New Yorker. The latter had more problems than driveability (damn pneumatic suspension; the strut bags kept rupturing. So I ended up donating it to Kars 4 Kids for a writeoff. Met my current GF during that time; so we shared the Camaro, Ram 50, and her '97 Mercury Cougar. I sold the Camaro to a friend of a friend who wanted to fully restore it; bought:
2001-2017: Kia Sportage. Kept the Ram 50 at my office, which had a roll-up door for the warehouse; used it for business. GF had to go back to Atlanta to take care of her sick dad, so the Cougar went with her at the end of 2001. Did the long-distance thing until 2007, when we (temporarily) called it quits due to simple logistics (she got a surgical-nurse job in Atlanta after her dad was well enough to be on his own). Alternated the Kia (which underwent a couple of recalls from 2004 to 2007) and Ram 50 until the latter developed serious electrical issues around 2009-10. So I sold it off (got more money for the shell than the truck itself!) and kept the Kia, which was around for my move back to the Bay Area in 2012. Reunited with my GF the following year when she decided to return to CA (nurses make a hell of a lot more money out here!); by that time she had run the pants off the Cougar and had bought an '01 Nissan Sentra, which I drove back from Atlanta (gingerly; it had fuel-injector issues). Both the Kia and Nissan developed fatal problems in 2016-17; and a friend had two Toyota vehicles for sale courtesy of a divorce:
2017-present: (1) 1997 Camry and (2) 1998 4-Runner. I normally drive the former; she the latter (better for her carpool to work in Fremont), although we switch off if I have some heavy items to move for my business. I can attest to the Toyota adage that they'll run forever if you treat them well (synthetic oil w/regular changes, use coolant mix). Right now I need new shocks for the Camry; it'll be going in in a week or so for that. So far, all is well in Toyotaland!
If you're counting, that makes 11 vehicles I've owned and/or inherited.
Quote from: kphoger on July 31, 2019, 01:31:30 PM
Quote from: jasonh300 on July 31, 2019, 09:28:03 AM
... Saab ... Always Broken
That's the Saab life.
You don't buy a used Swedish car unless you plan to make repairs every other weekend.
Currently waiting on the foreign car guy to have room in his shop so I can have AAA tow it over there. This is probably going to cost more than I paid for the car.
Quote from: jasonh300 on August 08, 2019, 02:48:28 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 31, 2019, 01:31:30 PM
Quote from: jasonh300 on July 31, 2019, 09:28:03 AM
... Saab ... Always Broken
That's the Saab life.
You don't buy a used Swedish car unless you plan to make repairs every other weekend.
Currently waiting on the foreign car guy to have room in his shop so I can have AAA tow it over there. This is probably going to cost more than I paid for the car.
There was this one guy who used to around here that might have been some help but he wanted to bulldoze half of Chicago.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 08, 2019, 03:07:32 PM
Quote from: jasonh300 on August 08, 2019, 02:48:28 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 31, 2019, 01:31:30 PM
Quote from: jasonh300 on July 31, 2019, 09:28:03 AM
... Saab ... Always Broken
That's the Saab life.
You don't buy a used Swedish car unless you plan to make repairs every other weekend.
Currently waiting on the foreign car guy to have room in his shop so I can have AAA tow it over there. This is probably going to cost more than I paid for the car.
There was this one guy who used to around here that might have been some help but he wanted to bulldoze half of Chicago.
Yeah, his Hypotenuse Expressway.
Had 5 so far, with a 6th on the way soon:
1. 1994 Chevrolet Cavalier- It was a nice car til I rolled it over.
2.1991 Mercury Topaz- It was terrible. Had to get a new starter put in 4 times. It also leaked various liquids. I eventually fixed those problems, but by then, it was paid off, and since I never really wanted to buy it in the first place, I traded it in as fast as possible.
3. 1999 Saturn SL2- Ran well, and never had a major problem til the end.
4. 2007 Saturn Ion- My first new car, and in retrospect, not hard to see why. I got it after the 2008 Saturns had come out, and I bet they were glad to see me liberate the piece of junk I bought from them. I had an incident with a deer and while it didn't kill it, neither they nor my designated Chevy dealer could figure out my engine problems. Went to my local mechanic who said it would be a $3000 repair and I traded it in.
5. 2013 Hyundai Elantra- I loved it at first and it mostly wasn't a problem, but I have the engine ticking problem that Hyundais are supposed to be known to have and I would love to trade it in, but have not yet done so.
6. ? Hope to have a new set of wheels soon.
Quote from: jasonh300 on August 08, 2019, 02:48:28 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 31, 2019, 01:31:30 PM
Quote from: jasonh300 on July 31, 2019, 09:28:03 AM
... Saab ... Always Broken
That's the Saab life.
You don't buy a used Swedish car unless you plan to make repairs every other weekend.
Currently waiting on the foreign car guy to have room in his shop so I can have AAA tow it over there. This is probably going to cost more than I paid for the car.
There's still domestic and foreign repairmen for vehicles? I thought that was a 1980's thing.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 09, 2019, 06:09:03 AM
Quote from: jasonh300 on August 08, 2019, 02:48:28 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 31, 2019, 01:31:30 PM
Quote from: jasonh300 on July 31, 2019, 09:28:03 AM
... Saab ... Always Broken
That's the Saab life.
You don't buy a used Swedish car unless you plan to make repairs every other weekend.
Currently waiting on the foreign car guy to have room in his shop so I can have AAA tow it over there. This is probably going to cost more than I paid for the car.
There's still domestic and foreign repairmen for vehicles? I thought that was a 1980's thing.
Still depends on the model year. Pre-GM the parts for Saab would be considerably harder to come by and some shops might just say they can't help you.
There are some independent shops that specialize in just one make or group thereof and market themselves regionally rather than locally. The sell is that you pay a little more for greater assurance of quality work.
I have, for example, considered driving the Camry to Minneapolis when its timing belt replacement falls due, since there is a Toyota specialist in the Twin Cities. The Toyota dealer in town has a bad reputation, and while there are independent shops that can handle the work, I would have no guarantee that quality (preferably OEM) parts were used unless I bought a timing belt kit myself. Timing belt jobs on Toyotas can be tricky because it is easy to get the new belt one tooth off if there is no accounting for parallax error. The reputation of the shop matters also, since if you opt for a "full" replacement--which in the FSM is actually described as a "partial overhaul"--the camshaft and crankshaft oil seals have to be replaced and once the timing belt cover is back in place, there is no easy way to tell whether the shop is billing for parts and labor for new seals while the existing ones are still in place.
Given that the nearest other Toyota dealer is in Hutchinson, 40 miles away, and the nearest large metro with multiple Toyota franchises is Kansas City, 190 miles away, it starts to look appealing to schedule a mini-vacation in a large city with good public transit while the work is done.
The 3 cars i have owned:
1996 Impala SS (1999-present)
1996 Cadillac Deville (2004-2009)
2005 Cadillac STS (2009-present)