A question I've been thinking about as of late is, when clinching a road that crosses a ferry, do you have to ride on the ferry to consider the road "clinched"? A few places I can think of this coming up would be US 9 between New Jersey and Delaware, US 10 between Michigan and Wisconsin, and the Trans-Canada between PEI and Nova Scotia. I can see a case either way; on the one hand, if you don't take the ferry, you haven't been on the points in between the ferry terminals, and one wouldn't count a road that goes over a large bridge as clinched if they haven't been on the bridge. On the other hand, Travel Mapping (and CHM before it) marks these roads as ending at the ferry terminal, and I do count state routes that end at a ferry to another state as clinched even if I haven't been on the ferry, even if there's another state route ending at the ferry terminal in the other state.
In California I'd say the answer is yes for the J-Mack Ferry since that is run by Caltrans on a cable pulley for CA 220. The Real McCoy II on CA 84 is engine propelled so a technical clinch would only have to include getting on the ferry itself. Some states do make it explicitly clear the ferry route is part of the highway where others do not.
Seeing as clinching highways is an arbitrary game that a person play with themselves, I think if you like ferry rides than yeah, consider the ferry ride as part of the clinch -- if, on the other hand, you don't like ferry rides, than don't count the ferry ride as a requirement for clinching a highway.
I don't clinch any roads below Interstate highways, but if I did, I'd probably not consider them clinched until I rode the ferry.
Then again, although I have seen maps with US 9 shields in the water, I haven't seen the same for US 10.
Glad I am sticking to Interstates. :D
Quote from: vdeane on July 29, 2019, 01:28:15 PM
On the other hand, Travel Mapping (and CHM before it) marks these roads as ending at the ferry terminal, and I do count state routes that end at a ferry to another state as clinched even if I haven't been on the ferry, even if there's another state route ending at the ferry terminal in the other state.
CHM's creator thought that was the appropriate way to handle ferry crossings, though he was prevailed upon to include several ferry crossings in the Northwest Territories (one since replaced with a bridge) on the theory that you could drive across the rivers on ice bridges in the winter. For Travel Mapping, I've tried to extend that precedent to SK 42 across Lake Diefenbaker (ferry most of the year, maybe an ice bridge in the winter), or the two short year-round ferry crossings carrying CA 84 and CA 220 to Ryer Island in the Sacramento River delta. No luck with either. Those will have to wait until TM adds a system for auto ferries.
My personal view is that for routes including ferry crossings, you need to take the ferry. Thus, to complete the Trans-Canada Highway system you need to take the BC Ferries routes from Horseshoe Bay on the mainland to Nanaimo on Vancouver Island for TCH 1, and from Prince Rupert to Skidegate on Haida Gwaii for TCH 16. Also, from PEI's Wood Islands to Pictou NS, and from North Sydney NS to Port aux Basques NL. But since TM doesn't map the ferries as part of the associated routes, you can clinch the road segments at each end and TM won't say whether or not you took the ferries.
Quote from: Rothman on July 29, 2019, 04:04:10 PM
I don't clinch any roads below Interstate highways, but if I did, I'd probably not consider them clinched until I rode the ferry.
Then again, although I have seen maps with US 9 shields in the water, I haven't seen the same for US 10.
AASHTO approved US 10 across Lake Michigan, and there are US 10 route markers both on the ferry and the ramp onto the ferry on the Wisconsin side (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=23627.msg2355598#msg2355598). However, signage on the Michigan side isn't consistent with that, even though the AASHTO application to add the ferry to US 10 was jointly submitted by the Wisconsin and Michigan DOTs.
Some states consider their ferries to be in the state highway system...
North Carolina has explicitly defined these routes to include their ferries: NC 12, NC 45, NC 211, NC 306, NC 615. To my knowledge neither NC 45 or NC 211 have been posted on the opposite side of their ferries (which had not previously been part of their routes).
NC 615 wasn't posted south of its ferry at first but is today.
I believe you have to clinch the ferry if the numbered route follows the ferry
In Washington, every WSF route is legally a state highway and thus I wouldn't count a clinch unless it included a ride.
WA 339 is the hardest, since it's a peak-only water taxi now.
Quote from: Bruce on July 29, 2019, 05:42:04 PM
In Washington, every WSF route is legally a state highway and thus I wouldn't count a clinch unless it included a ride.
WA 339 is the hardest, since it's a peak-only water taxi now.
Isn't there a WA state highway that's routed on a discontinued ferry line, making it impossible to clinch, or something along the lines of that? I could be wrong.
I don't know about US 9. However, the Badger only runs during the warmer months and was even out of commission for a while, so there's a reasonable argument not to include the Badger to clinch US 10.
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on July 29, 2019, 04:02:57 PM
Seeing as clinching highways is an arbitrary game that a person play with themselves, I think if you like ferry rides than yeah, consider the ferry ride as part of the clinch -- if, on the other hand, you don't like ferry rides, than don't count the ferry ride as a requirement for clinching a highway.
This is the correct answer
The way I see it is as follows:
Road - the physical surface on which a wheeled vehicle operates. When you drive to the end of the physical surface (i.e. the ferry terminal or a dead end), you've clinched the "road".
Route - a path which may be as simple as being coterminous with a single road, or quite complex (ferries, US routes in urban areas). To clinch the "route", you have to traverse the entirety of it, in whatever form it manifests itself.
roads = physical surfaces. Routes = a series of directions.
Quote from: corco on July 29, 2019, 04:33:43 PM
I believe you have to clinch the ferry if the numbered route follows the ferry
Agreed with this. If the ferry is officially defined as part of the numbered route (whether or not it's signed as such), it should be clinched.
Quote from: oscar on July 29, 2019, 04:20:30 PM
Those will have to wait until TM adds a system for auto ferries.
Is that a definite "will happen"? Not looking forward to the day I have to ride on a bunch of ferries in order to get NY to 100%. It might also make the maps look weird.
Quote
Also, from PEI's Wood Islands to Pictou NS
This is the troublesome one that I was hoping to avoid whenever I get around to visiting PEI. That ferry is
expensive, and you have to pay both ways if you want a reservation. I'm the type of person who wouldn't want to chance whether there would be room for me on the boat - or wait the extra amount of time before boarding they require of people without reservations.
Quote from: vdeane on July 29, 2019, 08:50:20 PM
Quote from: oscar on July 29, 2019, 04:20:30 PM
Those will have to wait until TM adds a system for auto ferries.
Is that a definite "will happen"? Not looking forward to the day I have to ride on a bunch of ferries in order to get NY to 100%. It might also make the maps look weird.
It's something I'll try to develop, once the two systems on my plate (Saskatchewan and California) are promoted to active systems. I'm the auto ferry geek on the TM team (lots of mileage in AK, BC, and the Maritime Provinces, bits and pieces elsewhere), so it's something I'm interested in. But basic issues, including avoiding weird maps, still need to be worked out.
I wonder if TM could be expanded into different "modules". What's currently there could be the "road" module, there could be a "ferry" (or perhaps a "crossings" module including major bridges/tunnels?) module, a "transit" module, etc.
Quote from: vdeane on July 29, 2019, 09:20:30 PM
I wonder if TM could be expanded into different "modules". What's currently there could be the "road" module, there could be a "ferry" (or perhaps a "crossings" module including major bridges/tunnels?) module, a "transit" module, etc.
I don't quite understand the "module" structure, but maybe you could explore the thought on TM's forum.
Quote from: vdeane on July 29, 2019, 08:50:20 PM
Quote
Also, from PEI's Wood Islands to Pictou NS
This is the troublesome one that I was hoping to avoid whenever I get around to visiting PEI. That ferry is expensive, and you have to pay both ways if you want a reservation. I'm the type of person who wouldn't want to chance whether there would be room for me on the boat - or wait the extra amount of time before boarding they require of people without reservations.
You really don't need a reservation except travelling on summer weekends (Fri and Sat to PEI and Sun return) or on a Holiday.....and even then you'd probably only have to wait 90 mins or so for the next crossing if you didn't have a reservation. The cost of a reservation is the same as travelling without one....$79
round-trip. And that's for a car including as many people as you can cram into it! Only if you wanted a
one-way reservation and just in the direction of NS over to PEI would you pay the $79. Travel without a reservation going to PEI is free.
I travelled to Prince Edward Island via the Confederation Bridge but plan to depart using the ferry. Where do I pay my ferry toll?
Like the Confederation Bridge, ferry fares are calculated for a round-trip and collected only when departing Prince Edward Island. Visitors who arrive on Prince Edward Island via the Confederation Bridge and depart via the ferry will pay only the ferry fare and vice versa.Do I need a reservation?
Reservations are recommended and are offered for one-way or return travel at the same cost, with a credit card. Please note that one-way travel from Caribou, Nova Scotia is available at no fee but on a first-come, first served basis. If travellers wish to make a one-way reservation from Caribou, Nova Scotia to Wood Islands, Prince Edward Island, a fee of $79 will apply.
*If a customer departing from Caribou, Nova Scotia travelling one-way to Wood Islands, Prince Edward Island chooses to make a reservation for their crossing and exits Prince Edward Island via the Confederation Bridge, they will pay both the ferry and the bridge toll.SO.....your best option is to travel over to PEI for free on the ferry.....then leave via the Confederation Bridge. Toll is $47.75.
Quote from: ghYHZ on July 30, 2019, 05:05:41 AM
You really don't need a reservation except travelling on summer weekends (Fri and Sat to PEI and Sun return) or on a Holiday.....and even then you'd probably only have to wait 90 mins or so for the next crossing if you didn't have a reservation. The cost of a reservation is the same as travelling without one....$79 round-trip. And that's for a car including as many people as you can cram into it! Only if you wanted a one-way reservation and just in the direction of NS over to PEI would you pay the $79. Travel without a reservation going to PEI is free.
Yeah, I'm not the type of person to consider "wait 90 minutes for the next ferry" to be an acceptable roadtrip delay, though if avoiding Friday/Saturday/holidays and/or going outside of the peak season is enough to avoid needing one, that's another matter. The requirement to be there an hour before departure (vs. half an hour with a reservation) is still annoying, though.
If the route is legally marked over the ferry, like TCH from PEI to Pictou, or the Washington State Routes over their ferries, then yes. If however, the ferry is not considered part of the route, but simply the joiner between two sections of the same route, it is not required to take the ferry.
Then again, I'm so happy I took the Pictou 30 years ago, so I get to count it, I just now need to cross Confederation Bridge to complete the route.
US 10 you can not clinch now that AASHTO considers the Ferry as part of US 10. Before you could drive from each side to its other terminus and considered it clinched but now you must buy the expensive ticket for you and your car to sail it to be a full clinch.
However, I guess taking a day cruise on it counts if you leave the car on either side and just ride it as a passenger is a clinch I guess.
Louisiana Highway 82 is an easy one. I think I waited 5 minutes, and then another 5-10 more for the entire process of loading, embarking, and unloading.
I say you have to have the ferry as it is part of the route.
Quote from: vdeane on July 30, 2019, 01:29:10 PM
Yeah, I'm not the type of person to consider "wait 90 minutes for the next ferry" to be an acceptable roadtrip delay, though if avoiding Friday/Saturday/holidays and/or going outside of the peak season is enough to avoid needing one, that's another matter. The requirement to be there an hour before departure (vs. half an hour with a reservation) is still annoying, though.
If it's enough of a priority, you'll find a way to accept it.
Quote from: roadman65 on July 30, 2019, 06:36:50 PM
US 10 you can not clinch now ... now you must buy the expensive ticket for you and your car to sail it to be a full clinch.
The second statement contradicts the first.
Quote from: froggie on July 30, 2019, 08:47:45 PM
If it's enough of a priority, you'll find a way to accept it.
And not the only ferry I'll have to deal with for my clinching goals (which include the entire TCH mainline and QC 199, although I may want to pick up US 9 at some point). At least I'm not aware of the others having a financial penalty for making a reservation. The long-haul ferries certainly require more logistics to work into a trip than the shorter ferries like the ones between NY and VT!
Honestly, when I get around to doing long roadtrips is certainly going to be interesting given my tendency to not drive more than 8-9 hours per day and wanting to arrive at a hotel in time to watch the local news (a quirk of mine; I'm actually considering whether to establish a way to properly keep track of which media markets I've "clinched").
Quote from: index on July 29, 2019, 05:49:13 PM
Quote from: Bruce on July 29, 2019, 05:42:04 PM
In Washington, every WSF route is legally a state highway and thus I wouldn't count a clinch unless it included a ride.
WA 339 is the hardest, since it's a peak-only water taxi now.
Isn't there a WA state highway that's routed on a discontinued ferry line, making it impossible to clinch, or something along the lines of that? I could be wrong.
WA 339 was originally a state-run passenger-only ferry route that was turned over to the county in 2006. So it's a state route on a county ferry.
For US-10 I would say yes because the ferry is actually a part of the route. I'm not sure with other ones.
Quote from: Rothman on July 29, 2019, 04:04:10 PM
I don't clinch any roads below Interstate highways, but if I did, I'd probably not consider them clinched until I rode the ferry.
Then again, although I have seen maps with US 9 shields in the water, I haven't seen the same for US 10.
Glad I am sticking to Interstates. :D
I haven't seen any US-10 shields in the water either. However the ferry does have a US-10 shield on it.
AASHTO says you are on US 10 when you sail it? I do not think US 9 is on the Cape May Ferry the same way so US 9 in DE is severed from US 9 in NJ and NY then.
Quote from: index on July 29, 2019, 05:49:13 PM
Quote from: Bruce on July 29, 2019, 05:42:04 PM
In Washington, every WSF route is legally a state highway and thus I wouldn't count a clinch unless it included a ride.
WA 339 is the hardest, since it's a peak-only water taxi now.
Isn't there a WA state highway that's routed on a discontinued ferry line, making it impossible to clinch, or something along the lines of that? I could be wrong.
Louisiana has an abandoned state highway that has not been taken off the logs, yet. From Cameron to Monkey Island, the ferry got knocked out of service from Hurricane Rita in 2005, and although the few residents there were displaced, LA 1141 is still on the books and inaccessible.
iPhone
Quote from: bassoon1986 on July 31, 2019, 10:49:04 PM
Quote from: index on July 29, 2019, 05:49:13 PM
Quote from: Bruce on July 29, 2019, 05:42:04 PM
In Washington, every WSF route is legally a state highway and thus I wouldn't count a clinch unless it included a ride.
WA 339 is the hardest, since it's a peak-only water taxi now.
Isn't there a WA state highway that's routed on a discontinued ferry line, making it impossible to clinch, or something along the lines of that? I could be wrong.
Louisiana has an abandoned state highway that has not been taken off the logs, yet. From Cameron to Monkey Island, the ferry got knocked out of service from Hurricane Rita in 2005, and although the few residents there were displaced, LA 1141 is still on the books and inaccessible.
iPhone
Looks like there are a ton of abandoned buildings that are still standing on the island, that looks interesting as all hell. I suppose you could walk the majority of the route if you had a boat to access the south part of the island.
Quote from: oscar on July 29, 2019, 04:20:30 PMsince TM doesn't map the ferries as part of the associated routes, you can clinch the road segments at each end and TM won't say whether or not you took the ferries.
With E Roads, I've always put a point at where you can last turn off to not enter the port, and another for the ferry, and so routes are rather hard to clinch unless you take the ferry (OK, I have that bit - and only that bit - of IRL E20, despite taking a different ferry due to them leaving from the same place).
We don't however, have ferry->outside the port portions of E Roads that end with a ferry (E25 Palermo, E47 Helsingborg, E55 Helsingborg, E67 Helsinki, E265 Kapellskar, E840 Civitavecchia) or call somewhere in the middle of a crossing (E18 Mariehamn) - so if E40 was changed to begin "Dover ... Calais - Bruges" it would make no difference to the current "Calais - Bruges" as its signed into the Channel Tunnel terminal in France and we wouldn't add the English section unless it was explicitly signed (even the Swedes and Finns don't do that).
It's a bit harder with more minor routes/ferries (but it is possible, I guess - you might end up with very short section), but with E Roads it works as the ferries are big enough and so there's a terminal and such rather than a short ramp and pay on ferry. US10 could have similar (looking, TM could do with a little polish there anyway, especially MI) as its ferry is definitely big enough.
Quote from: english si on August 01, 2019, 08:16:19 AM
It's a bit harder with more minor routes/ferries (but it is possible, I guess - you might end up with very short section), but with E Roads it works as the ferries are big enough and so there's a terminal and such rather than a short ramp and pay on ferry. US10 could have similar (looking, TM could do with a little polish there anyway, especially MI) as its ferry is definitely big enough.
TM handles the WI and MI ends differently. The WI US 10 segment ends in TM more or less at the loading ramp onto the ferry (a little point drift there, the endpoint is in the water), which has the last US 10 route marker at the gate just before getting on the ferry. The MI US 10 segment ends in TM well short of the terminal, though then again there's an END US 10 sign around that point. Maybe the MI segment can be clinched, even for the most fussy, without getting on the ferry.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 31, 2019, 11:06:23 PM
Quote from: bassoon1986 on July 31, 2019, 10:49:04 PM
Quote from: index on July 29, 2019, 05:49:13 PM
Quote from: Bruce on July 29, 2019, 05:42:04 PM
In Washington, every WSF route is legally a state highway and thus I wouldn't count a clinch unless it included a ride.
WA 339 is the hardest, since it's a peak-only water taxi now.
Isn't there a WA state highway that's routed on a discontinued ferry line, making it impossible to clinch, or something along the lines of that? I could be wrong.
Louisiana has an abandoned state highway that has not been taken off the logs, yet. From Cameron to Monkey Island, the ferry got knocked out of service from Hurricane Rita in 2005, and although the few residents there were displaced, LA 1141 is still on the books and inaccessible.
iPhone
Looks like there are a ton of abandoned buildings that are still standing on the island, that looks interesting as all hell. I suppose you could walk the majority of the route if you had a boat to access the south part of the island.
I second this, that sounds pretty interesting. If I recall there's a thread for this type of stuff, in regards to routes being inaccessible but still on the books. Louisiana's highway system as a whole is pretty interesting, numbering and all, but I don't wanna go off topic here.
Do I really have to ferry my car from Nova Scotia to Newfoundland to clinch the TCH? It costs like a bajillion dollars....
Quote from: paulthemapguy on August 04, 2019, 09:24:19 PM
Do I really have to ferry my car from Nova Scotia to Newfoundland to clinch the TCH? It costs like a bajillion dollars....
Not a bajillion. I am about to take that ferry with a car and four passengers (Port Aux Basques) and it was about $300 Canadian.
Quote from: vdeane on July 30, 2019, 01:29:10 PM
Quote from: ghYHZ on July 30, 2019, 05:05:41 AM
You really don't need a reservation except travelling on summer weekends (Fri and Sat to PEI and Sun return) or on a Holiday.....and even then you'd probably only have to wait 90 mins or so for the next crossing if you didn't have a reservation. The cost of a reservation is the same as travelling without one....$79 round-trip. And that's for a car including as many people as you can cram into it! Only if you wanted a one-way reservation and just in the direction of NS over to PEI would you pay the $79. Travel without a reservation going to PEI is free.
Yeah, I'm not the type of person to consider "wait 90 minutes for the next ferry" to be an acceptable roadtrip delay, though if avoiding Friday/Saturday/holidays and/or going outside of the peak season is enough to avoid needing one, that's another matter. The requirement to be there an hour before departure (vs. half an hour with a reservation) is still annoying, though.
I went to Prince Edward Island on Saturday...arriving about a half hour before departure and 15 minutes before loading began. I had no problem getting on without a reservation.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48461788956_471862afa3_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gQpkts)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48461788721_8b77bf0e4b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gQpkpp)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48461788526_d00326d336_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gQpkm3)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48461788346_bf6c8887b4_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gQpkhW)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48461952937_aa8679c949_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gQqbdH)
Same thing coming back on Saturday evening......no reservation and lots of space.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48461787656_29935f8b9c_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gQpk63)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48461952612_9158898f8d_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gQqb87)
I was on the "˜Holiday Island' (both ways) ...a highly functional double-decker holding 150 cars but with all the esthetics of a parking lot that floated out to sea. It's a former CN Ferry and was transferred to NFL (Northumberland Ferries) after the Bridge opened between New Brunswick and PEI.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48461952737_fab244851e_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gQqbag)
The other boat on the run is the "˜Confederation' with much more appealing lines. It holds 220 cars
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48461952147_cb3c4aa147_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gQqaZ6)
Quote from: Rothman on August 04, 2019, 09:44:37 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on August 04, 2019, 09:24:19 PM
Do I really have to ferry my car from Nova Scotia to Newfoundland to clinch the TCH? It costs like a bajillion dollars....
Not a bajillion. I am about to take that ferry with a car and four passengers (Port Aux Basques) and it was about $300 Canadian.
The cost of the ferry is not excessive when you consider the crossing to Port-aux-Basques (Port oh Bask) is 6 hours and 150 km .....or a 15 hour 500km overnight run to Argentia. The ferries are big.....carrying 500 cars with cabins or "˜business class' type seating, dining rooms and lounges.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-s_t1WKBwRQc/VCcJMF-gbiI/AAAAAAAAM8I/vV6wZQ0Muno/s800/IMG_3382.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-BVJHkzUPaMo/VCcKxJqcNiI/AAAAAAAAM8o/py4zvLcAV4k/s800/IMG_3419.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-bUN9BdMaFdk/VCcMfix_pBI/AAAAAAAAM9Q/rRXdfz1tHJ4/s800/IMG_3512.JPG)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48255232212_849db7117c_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gw9Fmh)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48255164716_f7963ed9e0_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gw9khy)
Quote from: paulthemapguy on August 04, 2019, 09:24:19 PM
Do I really have to ferry my car from Nova Scotia to Newfoundland to clinch the TCH? It costs like a bajillion dollars....
You could always take a bike instead. Last time I was in that area, we encountered two guys near Antigonish who were riding across Canada on recumbent trikes and needed to reach the ferry by the following evening.
^^^ How long is the ferry crossing across Northumberland Strait?
Quote from: froggie on August 05, 2019, 08:40:11 AM
^^^ How long is the ferry crossing across Northumberland Strait?
One hour and 10 minutes
Quote from: ghYHZ on August 05, 2019, 07:20:33 AM
I went to Prince Edward Island on Saturday...arriving about a half hour before departure and 15 minutes before loading began. I had no problem getting on without a reservation.
Interesting... I take it I should take the website with a grain of salt when they say things like "show up an hour before departure" and "reservations are recommended"?
Quote from: vdeane on August 05, 2019, 12:54:37 PM
Quote from: ghYHZ on August 05, 2019, 07:20:33 AM
I went to Prince Edward Island on Saturday...arriving about a half hour before departure and 15 minutes before loading began. I had no problem getting on without a reservation.
Interesting... I take it I should take the website with a grain of salt when they say things like "show up an hour before departure" and "reservations are recommended"?
All depends on when you want to travel. I travel enough to know what crossings to avoid.
Arriving one hour before without a reservation is a recommendation.......and that you'll probably be far enough ahead in the lineup that there's a pretty good chance you'll get on the next crossing.
Today (Aug 5) is a holiday here. It was a sunny and warm weekend so I'm sure there's a lineup on the PEI side right now and if you don't have a reservation you might miss a crossing and have to wait for the next.
Quote from: ghYHZ on August 05, 2019, 01:24:00 PM
Quote from: vdeane on August 05, 2019, 12:54:37 PM
Quote from: ghYHZ on August 05, 2019, 07:20:33 AM
I went to Prince Edward Island on Saturday...arriving about a half hour before departure and 15 minutes before loading began. I had no problem getting on without a reservation.
Interesting... I take it I should take the website with a grain of salt when they say things like "show up an hour before departure" and "reservations are recommended"?
All depends on when you want to travel. I travel enough to know what crossings to avoid
Drove to the end of TCH106 at Caribou NS this afternoon...and no need to worry about a reservation to get over to Prince Edward Island for some sun, sand and surf as the marshalling area is a skating rink! Ferries go back on May 1.
I have to go to the Island next week.....but it will be the long way 'round via the Confederation Bridge.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49512611761_900b7acc2c_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2irg5u2)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49512101548_518f17ef00_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2irdsPf)
I'm of the general mindset that ferries are not roads, and therefore fall outside the scope of clinching roads, even if they are administratively defined as part of a route.
Of course, when part of a route is on an island that is only accessible by ferry, this becomes rather moot.
Quote from: Duke87 on February 11, 2020, 08:58:57 AM
I'm of the general mindset that ferries are not roads, and therefore fall outside the scope of clinching roads, even if they are administratively defined as part of a route.
Given a route is simply a path something follows, and they can be designated over anything, (especially in the case of legislatively defined routes) by this definition, does this mean routes such as WA SR 339 (a pedestrian-only water taxi, existing only on water) are impossible to clinch? You'd still be traveling the entire length of a route, even if not on a road.
Quote from: index on February 11, 2020, 02:29:46 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on February 11, 2020, 08:58:57 AM
I'm of the general mindset that ferries are not roads, and therefore fall outside the scope of clinching roads, even if they are administratively defined as part of a route.
Given a route is simply a path something follows, and they can be designated over anything, (especially in the case of legislatively defined routes) by this definition, does this mean routes such as WA SR 339 (a pedestrian-only water taxi, existing only on water) are impossible to clinch? You'd still be traveling the entire length of a route, even if not on a road.
Look carefully, and you'll see that
Duke87 didn't say anything about "clinching routes", nor does the thread title. That is to say, he didn't say you can't clinch WA SR 339–merely that such has nothing to do with clinching roads.
He may have said that because a number of roadgeeks think clinching roads = clinching routes. As the past few posts have shown, the two are not always intertwined...
Quote from: froggie on February 12, 2020, 07:31:15 AM
He may have said that because a number of roadgeeks think clinching roads = clinching routes. As the past few posts have shown, the two are not always intertwined...
That's about what I meant. To add to that in a tangentially related way, some of the names states use (such as State Road) for their routes being designated over ferries only further complicates that with the whole road versus route dichotomy. See: Florida State
Road A1A being designated on the Mayport
Ferry.
I would say that, effectively, you have to take the ferry crossing. Even if it isn't a road, you have to follow it in order to clinch a highway if the highway is designated along it. But besides any of that, you would still have to drive up to the loading point in order to clinch the road, but you would not be able to do that unless boarding the ferry. To me, that's like clinching a highway that crosses a border or restricted gate. I would consider turning around at the last available point to be a near-clinch. If the highway doesn't go over the ferry and you drive up to the landing yard and turn around, that's a near-clinch.
While researching TX 87, I found that the highway was designated up to one ferry landing, and then starting from the other landing. It isn't designated in between. But on the Statewide Planning Map, TxDOT shows the route over the water, including distance from origin numbers. Even more interesting, I noticed that they consider the Intracoastal Waterway to be State Highway 8000.
Northern Europe has ferries that are part of the "E" system of highways.
I think all are operated by the private sector.
E39 crosses the Skagerak between Hirsthals, Denmark and Kristiansand, Norway.
E18 crosses the Baltic between Kapellskär, Sweden and NÃ¥dendal, Finland.
E20 crosses the Baltic between Stockholm, Sweden and Tallinn, Estonia or alternatively between Kapellskär, Sweden and Paldiski, Estonia.
NÃ¥dendal is better known as Naantali. All these ferries except the Stockholm-Tallinn one are featured in Euro Truck Simulator 2.
Now, good luck trying to get from Barcelona, Spain to Mazara del Vallo, Sicily, Italy. Supposedly E90 takes that route, but there is no direct ferry between those two places.