AARoads Forum

The one I hate is the right turn lane that also goes straight, and people insist on parking it there so people can't right turn.

Also the red left turn arrow when you can see no one is coming.  Finally most of those are going to the blinking yellow.

And people turning left who don't get out into the intersection thus missing the light

No sympathy for #1. If it's straight-or-right, anything is fair game.

My beef is with people who honk at me when I don't right-on-red. There is no law (at least in Virginia) that says you must right-on-red. Instead, it gives the driver the choice.

Quote from: AlexandriaVA on July 29, 2019, 06:24:03 PM
My beef is with people who honk at me when I don't right-on-red. There is no law (at least in Virginia) that says you must right-on-red. Instead, it gives the driver the choice.

I disagree. If there's clearly no traffic or pedestrians and you aren't turning right on red, you're wasting the time of the people behind you. Might also subject you to unnecessary road rage.

Quote from: US 89 on July 29, 2019, 06:36:50 PM

Quote from: AlexandriaVA on July 29, 2019, 06:24:03 PM
My beef is with people who honk at me when I don't right-on-red. There is no law (at least in Virginia) that says you must right-on-red. Instead, it gives the driver the choice.

I disagree. If there's clearly no traffic or pedestrians and you aren't turning right on red, you're wasting the time of the people behind you. Might also subject you to unnecessary road rage.

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title46.2/chapter8/section46.2-835/

Quote§ 46.2-835. Right turn on steady red light after stopping.

Quote...vehicular traffic facing a steady red circular signal, after coming to a full stop, maycautiously enter the intersection and make a right turn.

"May" has a very specific legal meaning. If the legislature wanted to use "shall", they would have.

Quote from: US 89 on July 29, 2019, 06:36:50 PM

Quote from: AlexandriaVA on July 29, 2019, 06:24:03 PM
My beef is with people who honk at me when I don't right-on-red. There is no law (at least in Virginia) that says you must right-on-red. Instead, it gives the driver the choice.

I disagree. If there's clearly no traffic or pedestrians and you aren't turning right on red, you're wasting the time of the people behind you. Might also subject you to unnecessary road rage.

I agree. If it's clear, go. What are you waiting for? The people behind you to get mad? If you need to pull over and wait or do something, do it in a parking lot or on the shoulder, don't block the turning lane.

You might have the law on your side, but it's still a jack move.

I like how both of you guys are assuming that I don't right-on-red in patently clear situations...

I do, however, use considerable caution making rights-on-red in busy areas (having been struck myself by an inattentive ROR driver) A serious problem are yahoos coming in from the rural parts of the state and cutting off pedestrians whom have the right-of-way in ROR situations.

Quote from: AlexandriaVA on July 29, 2019, 07:41:23 PM
I like how both of you guys are assuming that I don't right-on-red in patently clear situations...

I do, however, use considerable caution making rights-on-red in busy areas (having been struck myself by an inattentive ROR driver) A serious problem are yahoos coming in from the rural parts of the state and cutting off pedestrians whom have the right-of-way in ROR situations.

Well that I do understand. I've encountered on multiple occasions where I find myself stuck behind a driver who refuses to turn right, even when the intersection is clear. There's no "No Turn on Red" signage, so there's no good reason there just blocking the intersection. Usually after honking the horn once though will get them to go. It's especially annoying when I'm in a hurry and don't have time to deal with silly things like that.

I have and still do sit at the red light even if it's clear and I'm checking something on my phone per se, directions, or something else, but I only do that if nobody is behind me. If someone pulls up behind me to turn, I'll put down my phone and turn when clear.

You need to understand that I basically don't drive outside the Beltway, and certainly not the DC Metro area. So I really don't have much experience at rural stoplights.

But most places I drive, there are often either pedestrians or side-approaching vehicles. I've been honked at before in situations where the honking driver simply doesn't see what I see (in many cases, a crossing pedestrian from the opposite side of the street, in which my car blocks the honkers line-of-sight).

People who drive way over the speed limit but some how take forever to accelerate from a stop sign/light. 

People who have no clue that the freeway entrance ramp is the acceleration lane and that they're supposed to be up to freeway speed prior to merging into traffic.  Jackasses around here tend to enter the freeway at 40-45 mph while traffic is moving at 60-75 mph.

Lately the thing that's been bugging me the most is the people who (1) stop a full carlength short of the stop bar, (2) leave tons of space between cars when stopped at red lights, and (3) slow down bigtime way in advance when approaching a red light. All of these things are a pain in the arse when they block you from accessing the left-turn lane or make it hard for you to access it, especially when the green arrow hasn't yet come on and you're trying to get there in time to turn. Then some of them become enraged if you beep the horn to ask them to move up so you can reach the turn lane. It's unacceptable to leave whole carlength gaps.

Semi-related: I do not understand this little fad these days where when you honk at an idiot, the idiot thinks honking back at you is somehow the proper reply instead of pulling up (as in the situation above) or just plain moving (when, for example, you honk at someone who doesn't move when the light turns green).

I have a few different honking methods:

1) Short and clipped: That's a "courtesy beep", as in I think you mean well, but you can afford to move up.
2) Two to three heavy blares - it's a green light and you're not moving. I use this one by far the most.
3) Three fast ones - it's a highway and you're drifting into my lane, possibly due your blind spot.

For me at least, honking is never personal. I understand that sometimes my own judgment is wrong (maybe you're not going on a green light due to an arriving fire truck), or that the motorist may not be aware of their 'fault'. But I figure, what's the point in not using the horn? It's there - use it!

I honk to let people know that they did something stupid.

Quote from: Rothman on July 29, 2019, 09:07:19 PM
I honk to let people know that they did something stupid.

Not for me to judge, doesn't add anything to the situation either (only escalates it).

Honking should be a technical move that used often - look at traffic in the developing world, you'll hear honking all the way.

Honking as a cathartic emotional exercise is counterproductive. Along with giving the finger, etc. You're never going to see these people again...what good does "teaching a lesson" do?

I don't use the horn very much - and very rarely is it  because someone didn't take off immediately from a stoplight. I don't find it necessary to honk in that situation. My two main uses of the horn are:

(1) when someone pulls out in front of me and I have to brake to avoid rear-ending them. I have also been known to accelerate and pass them, even when there's a double solid line as long as visibility is good enough.
(2) when someone goes blowing past a visible queue and attempts to cut in at the last second. I recall a few cases where I have counted to 15 while honking. It is satisfying, but not near so much as blocking them out, or, better yet, forcing them down an alternate route.

Quote from: webny99 on July 29, 2019, 09:22:02 PM
I don't use the horn very much - and very rarely is it  because someone didn't take off immediately from a stoplight. I don't find it necessary to honk in that situation. My two main uses of the horn are:

(1) when someone pulls out in front of me and I have to brake to avoid rear-ending them. I have also been known to accelerate and pass them, even when there's a double solid line as long as visibility is good enough.
(2) when someone goes blowing past a visible queue and attempts to cut in at the last second. I recall a few cases where I have counted to 15 while honking. It is satisfying, but not near so much as blocking them out, or, better yet, forcing them down an alternate route.

In both cases your honks do nothing. In situation (1), it's already too late - you need to be honking the moment you see the indicator light come on/his head turn/his wheels turn/his car drifts.

For (2), once they blow by you, it's too late also. They know they're breaking the rules, and an angry honk isn't going to deter them.

Honking should be defensive, not therapeutic.

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 29, 2019, 08:26:53 PM
People who drive way over the speed limit but some how take forever to accelerate from a stop sign/light. 

That's me, actually.  It's the #1 contributor to good gas mileage.  Whenever possible, I try to keep the tach needle below 2200 rpm when accelerating, yet my top speed is almost always at least 5 mph over the limit.

The opposite annoy me:  those who accelerate super fast and loud with a plume of diesel exhaust, and then end up going slower than me.

Quote from: Brandon on July 29, 2019, 08:36:54 PM
People who have no clue that the freeway entrance ramp is the acceleration lane and that they're supposed to be up to freeway speed prior to merging into traffic.  Jackasses around here tend to enter the freeway at 40-45 mph while traffic is moving at 60-75 mph.

That's a big Illinois problem, more so than anywhere else.

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 29, 2019, 08:26:53 PM
People who drive way over the speed limit but some how take forever to accelerate from a stop sign/light. 

Or...people that insist on doing the speed limit (because it's the law), yet don't come to a complete stop at a stop sign.

Idiots doing 90 mph on the highway and you are going 80 mph. Trust me, in North Carolina, there's a lot of speeders. I don't know why they are always rushing.

I've seen people get lots of speeding tickets down here  :-D

Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 29, 2019, 10:02:44 PM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 29, 2019, 08:26:53 PM
People who drive way over the speed limit but some how take forever to accelerate from a stop sign/light. 

don't come to a complete stop at a stop sign.

That's been happening sporadically now. I do it also. It shouldn't be a big deal, but if people are rushing from work then it happens way more frequently. I've seen people just drive through stop signs without even knowing! It's like passing a stopped school bus. I've seen that happen once and the person got a $400 ticket. Hahaha

Quote from: US 89 on July 29, 2019, 06:36:50 PM

Quote from: AlexandriaVA on July 29, 2019, 06:24:03 PM
My beef is with people who honk at me when I don't right-on-red. There is no law (at least in Virginia) that says you must right-on-red. Instead, it gives the driver the choice.

I disagree. If there’s clearly no traffic or pedestrians and you aren’t turning right on red, you’re wasting the time of the people behind you. Might also subject you to unnecessary road rage.

Maybe he drives a school bus?

Quote from: US 89 on July 29, 2019, 06:36:50 PM

Quote from: AlexandriaVA on July 29, 2019, 06:24:03 PM
My beef is with people who honk at me when I don't right-on-red. There is no law (at least in Virginia) that says you must right-on-red. Instead, it gives the driver the choice.

I disagree. If there’s clearly no traffic or pedestrians and you aren’t turning right on red, you’re wasting the time of the people behind you. Might also subject you to unnecessary road rage.

But sometimes it's not as clear to the person behind you. I stopped before making a right turn at the northbound off-ramp from Suncoast Parkway to FL 50 one time, because you're supposed to, and I heard a fire truck coming. The jackass behind me honked his horn demanding that I make a right turn, and I told him "no." The guy went around me and was nearly rear ended by that fire truck.

Quote from: mrhappy1261 on July 29, 2019, 10:03:37 PM
Idiots doing 90 mph on the highway and you are going 80 mph. Trust me, in North Carolina, there's a lot of speeders. I don't know why they are always rushing.

I've seen people get lots of speeding tickets down here  :-D

Whenever I drive in that state, at least on I-85 or I-95, everybody is doing at least 80+ mph, yet whenever I take I-64 between Williamsburg and Richmond, everybody is either doing 65 mph or 70 mph, where the speed limit is 70 mph. But as soon as you get west of Richmond, 80+ mph. Same on I-81.

Quote from: D-Dey65 on July 29, 2019, 10:17:42 PM

Quote from: US 89 on July 29, 2019, 06:36:50 PM

Quote from: AlexandriaVA on July 29, 2019, 06:24:03 PM
My beef is with people who honk at me when I don't right-on-red. There is no law (at least in Virginia) that says you must right-on-red. Instead, it gives the driver the choice.

I disagree. If there's clearly no traffic or pedestrians and you aren't turning right on red, you're wasting the time of the people behind you. Might also subject you to unnecessary road rage.

But sometimes it's not as clear to the person behind you. I stopped before making a right turn at the northbound off-ramp from Suncoast Parkway to FL 50 one time, because you're supposed to, and I heard a fire truck coming. The jackass behind me honked his horn demanding that I make a right turn, and I told him "no." The guy went around me and was nearly rear ended by that fire truck.

Maybe letting off the brake and inching up a bit to make it clear you are actively watching and attempting to go?

Things that have happened in the last week for me:

Being on a bike in a sharrow lane but getting all sorts of honking from drivers who are very eager to move 100 feet to sit at the next stoplight in gridlocked traffic. One threatened to run me over and instead got a nice talking to from the police (for a good 30 minutes).

A dozen cars passed through a marked crosswalk without stopping for myself and an elderly person, despite plenty of signs professing that it's the law (and it takes all of 20 seconds). Most were predictably going over the speed limit to save a few seconds of time while passing through a pedestrian-heavy area where an extra few mph could mean the difference between an injured pedestrian and a mangled corpse.

Drivers who take turns in parking lots at speed and get very close to hitting people who are just trying to walk from the street to their grocery store.

Plenty of illegal passes and ignorance around buses that I ride. Drivers love to cross into oncoming traffic to get around a bus that is already starting to move from an in-lane stop. They also love to ignore the clearly marked yield sign on buses who are coming out of a pullout stop (hence why pullout stops should be phased out in favor of in-lane, curb-out stops to prevent unnecessary bus delays).

Quote from: AlexandriaVA on July 29, 2019, 09:23:47 PM

Quote from: webny99 on July 29, 2019, 09:22:02 PM
I don't use the horn very much - and very rarely is it  because someone didn't take off immediately from a stoplight. I don't find it necessary to honk in that situation. My two main uses of the horn are:

(1) when someone pulls out in front of me and I have to brake to avoid rear-ending them. I have also been known to accelerate and pass them, even when there's a double solid line as long as visibility is good enough.
(2) when someone goes blowing past a visible queue and attempts to cut in at the last second. I recall a few cases where I have counted to 15 while honking. It is satisfying, but not near so much as blocking them out, or, better yet, forcing them down an alternate route.

In both cases your honks do nothing. In situation (1), it's already too late - you need to be honking the moment you see the indicator light come on/his head turn/his wheels turn/his car drifts.

For (2), once they blow by you, it's too late also. They know they're breaking the rules, and an angry honk isn't going to deter them.

Honking should be defensive, not therapeutic.

Respecting the zipper is not breaking the rules.

Quote from: Bruce on July 29, 2019, 10:29:06 PM
Things that have happened in the last week for me:

Being on a bike in a sharrow lane but getting all sorts of honking from drivers who are very eager to move 100 feet to sit at the next stoplight in gridlocked traffic. One threatened to run me over and instead got a nice talking to from the police (for a good 30 minutes).



Drivers who take turns in parking lots at speed and get very close to hitting people who are just trying to walk from the street to their grocery store.

True but a lot of people walk in parking lots and don't even look.  Having the right of way does not excuse trying to be safe.

Quote from: Rothman on July 29, 2019, 10:32:57 PM

Quote from: AlexandriaVA on July 29, 2019, 09:23:47 PM

Quote from: webny99 on July 29, 2019, 09:22:02 PM
(2) when someone goes blowing past a visible queue and attempts to cut in at the last second. I recall a few cases where I have counted to 15 while honking. It is satisfying, but not near so much as blocking them out, or, better yet, forcing them down an alternate route.

For (2), once they blow by you, it's too late also. They know they're breaking the rules

Respecting the zipper is not breaking the rules.

As I have noted multiple times in various threads, the zipper (which I am an advocate of) applies to merges only. It does not apply to exit ramps.

Quote from: webny99 on July 30, 2019, 12:29:09 PM

Quote from: Rothman on July 29, 2019, 10:32:57 PM

Quote from: AlexandriaVA on July 29, 2019, 09:23:47 PM

Quote from: webny99 on July 29, 2019, 09:22:02 PM
(2) when someone goes blowing past a visible queue and attempts to cut in at the last second. I recall a few cases where I have counted to 15 while honking. It is satisfying, but not near so much as blocking them out, or, better yet, forcing them down an alternate route.

For (2), once they blow by you, it's too late also. They know they're breaking the rules

Respecting the zipper is not breaking the rules.

As I have noted multiple times in various threads, the zipper (which I am an advocate of) applies to merges only. It does not apply to exit ramps.

What, people blowing by you on the shoulder of an exit ramp?

-People that brake, when approaching a green traffic signal with no one in front of them. Why!?!?
I understand you do have to brake and/or stop here the other 99 out of 100 times, but on this rare occasion can't you accelerate and allow those of us behind you to benefit from this rare opportunity as well?

-People that use mobile devices while driving. Not because it's illegal, but because you're not paying attention when you're distracted, and thus are prone to being unresponsive to situations that arise and/or doing something stupid. Besides, it is just not necessary. You're on the road - enjoy it! Your text messages can wait!

-People that pass at a snail's pace, and then speed up once they're finished passing, especially when they're hogging the left lane the whole time. Their speed up-slow down cycles are detrimental to the operations of the entire freeway, because no one can get ahead of them. I don't even have a chance to pass on the right when they're either passing at 65 mph, or doing 90 mph on the clear stretches. Frustrating to no end! Fortunately, I don't encounter it too often.

-People that don't discriminate between acceptable and unacceptable speed limits, and abide by them all, all the time. Obviously, this does not apply to roads with four or more lanes. Sometimes, the DOT or local jurisdiction sets a limit that just doesn't even make sense in the context of the system as a whole. I know that sign there says 35, but they actually meant 55, given that everyone on this road has many miles to travel. It's OK; you can speed up, no need to hold this ridiculously low speed until the line behind you is several hundred cars in length.

-I know this one is going to require popcorn: roundabouts in general. They're actually preferred to four way stops, but American drivers don't know how to use them; usually stopping instead of yielding upon entry, and often waiting for theoretical cars that never end up crossing their path.

Quote from: Rothman on July 30, 2019, 12:47:03 PM

Quote from: webny99 on July 30, 2019, 12:29:09 PM
As I have noted multiple times in various threads, the zipper (which I am an advocate of) applies to merges only. It does not apply to exit ramps.

What, people blowing by you on the shoulder of an exit ramp?

No, people using the through lanes until the last second and then cutting in at the gore point, instead of joining the end of the existing line in the exit only lane.

How about people who don't know what to do at two way stops?

Unlike at a four way stop it has absolutely nothing to do with who got there first but people in Idaho at least seem to have no clue about this. Left turning traffic is supposed to yield to everybody else at a two way stop in all fifty states as far as I know.

My office is a left turn from a road just past an intersection on the right (https://www.google.com/maps/@30.4295543,-91.0236823,3a,75y,96.09h,89.92t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s8S7ceq8TNPP9D865_wHavw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D8S7ceq8TNPP9D865_wHavw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D166.13922%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656). In fact this GSMV just so happens to have a vehicle making a left turn from the oncoming lane right where I need to stop to make my left turn. I get honked quite a few times by people who apparently don't understand how double lines work. In fact, there's usually oncoming traffic, so I have to slow down or stop and wait for a hole in the oncoming traffic. And to make it richer, sometimes someone else who works in this complex will breach the center lane and pull up alongside me on the left to make their turn. This is an accident waiting to happen.

Quote from: webny99 on July 30, 2019, 01:00:08 PM
-People that use mobile devices while driving. Not because it's illegal, but because you're not paying attention when you're distracted, and thus are prone to being unresponsive to situations that arise and/or doing something stupid. Besides, it is just not necessary. You're on the road - enjoy it! Your text messages can wait!

...and its thoroughly annoying corollary:  People who use mobile devices while stopped at a traffic signal...and therefore stop paying attention to the light.  They end up sitting there after the light turns green, inviting a chorus of horns.

People who don't know what to do at an uncontrolled intersection.  Dude, we got there at around the same time, and you're on the right, so I will yield to you–and I'll just park it right here until you figure that out.

---

Quote from: Brandon on July 29, 2019, 08:36:54 PM
People who have no clue that the freeway entrance ramp is the acceleration lane and that they're supposed to be up to freeway speed prior to merging into traffic.  Jackasses around here tend to enter the freeway at 40-45 mph while traffic is moving at 60-75 mph.

I aim for about 5 to 10 mph below the speed limit when merging onto a highway.  Several reasons for this:

1.  I try to conserve gas during my acceleration.  Accelerating more quickly at on-ramps significantly affects my gas mileage.

2.  At least at typical interchanges, merging happens in the slow lane.  If traffic is at all heavy, especially in the city, that lane rarely gets above the speed limit or 5 over at most (around here anyway).

3.  Aiming for under the speed limit allows me two easy options to merge into a line of cars if I find myself immediately next to one at the merge point:  (a) easily drift back behind the car and merge in behind it, or (b) speed up to the speed limit and merge in front of it.  It's when I'm going the same speed as everyone else that merging becomes a battle, not when I'm slightly slower than everyone else.

Quote from: SidS1045 on July 30, 2019, 02:25:59 PM

Quote from: webny99 on July 30, 2019, 01:00:08 PM
-People that use mobile devices while driving. Not because it's illegal, but because you're not paying attention when you're distracted, and thus are prone to being unresponsive to situations that arise and/or doing something stupid. Besides, it is just not necessary. You're on the road - enjoy it! Your text messages can wait!

...and its thoroughly annoying corollary:  People who use mobile devices while stopped at a traffic signal...and therefore stop paying attention to the light.  They end up sitting there after the light turns green, inviting a chorus of horns.

But around here, a lot of people don't honk when that happens. I'll be fifth on line and I'll be the only person to honk. Makes me think all the other people are playing with their phones too.

Quote from: 1995hoo on July 30, 2019, 03:18:35 PM

Quote from: SidS1045 on July 30, 2019, 02:25:59 PM

Quote from: webny99 on July 30, 2019, 01:00:08 PM
-People that use mobile devices while driving. Not because it's illegal, but because you're not paying attention when you're distracted, and thus are prone to being unresponsive to situations that arise and/or doing something stupid. Besides, it is just not necessary. You're on the road - enjoy it! Your text messages can wait!

...and its thoroughly annoying corollary:  People who use mobile devices while stopped at a traffic signal...and therefore stop paying attention to the light.  They end up sitting there after the light turns green, inviting a chorus of horns.

But around here, a lot of people don't honk when that happens. I'll be fifth on line and I'll be the only person to honk. Makes me think all the other people are playing with their phones too.

This happens in Boise all the time too. I feel like I'm the only person in this city willing to use their horn sometimes

Quote from: SidS1045 on July 30, 2019, 02:25:59 PM

Quote from: webny99 on July 30, 2019, 01:00:08 PM
-People that use mobile devices while driving. Not because it's illegal, but because you're not paying attention when you're distracted, and thus are prone to being unresponsive to situations that arise and/or doing something stupid. Besides, it is just not necessary. You're on the road - enjoy it! Your text messages can wait!

...and its thoroughly annoying corollary:  People who use mobile devices while stopped at a traffic signal...and therefore stop paying attention to the light.  They end up sitting there after the light turns green, inviting a chorus of horns.

I'll do it occasionally, however at the same time I'm watching the light. I don't put all of my attention in my phone though like the people who don't realize the light turned green do, and when I do use my phone, it's usually quick like checking routing, etc. not sending a text message.

Anyone who I have the misfortune of driving nearby when there's a cop anywhere within 5 miles.

The random braking for a cop in the median, even if they're not speeding. They drive 10 under past the cop. Then they refuse to accelerate again until the cop is out of sight. I want to nuke all these people from orbit.

Hell, there are idiots who slam on their brakes for a cop engaged in a traffic stop on the other side of the road. Good lord. He's not going to stop what he's doing to come get you.

I experienced the other way on this.  I once got nailed at a light in Orlando and saw a cop next to me so I made sure I did not go over the stop line to receive a ticket (which he could give me if he wants).  I actually did so, however the guy in the third lane went 10 feet over the stop line and believe it or not, the cop did nothing.  I do not think he gave a rats ass about the formality of the situation.

Then a semi almost side swiped me with an Orange County Deputy behind us, who did nothing as he saw he carelessly was driving and could have injured me and damaged my car.  That one really pissed me off that he did nothing either.

So therefore cops in my state are not feared as much as other places.

Quote from: kphoger on July 29, 2019, 09:38:37 PM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 29, 2019, 08:26:53 PM
People who drive way over the speed limit but some how take forever to accelerate from a stop sign/light. 

That's me, actually.  It's the #1 contributor to good gas mileage.  Whenever possible, I try to keep the tach needle below 2200 rpm when accelerating, yet my top speed is almost always at least 5 mph over the limit.

The opposite annoy me:  those who accelerate super fast and loud with a plume of diesel exhaust, and then end up going slower than me.

I take the opposite approach and find I get rather good mileage, accelerate quickly through the gears to the highest one you need for the speed you're going, i.e. 4th at 30 mph, 5th at 40 mph, 6th at 50 mph.  That way, I waste less time and fuel in the more wasteful 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gears.

Quote from: Brandon on July 30, 2019, 04:55:42 PM

Quote from: kphoger on July 29, 2019, 09:38:37 PM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 29, 2019, 08:26:53 PM
People who drive way over the speed limit but some how take forever to accelerate from a stop sign/light. 

That's me, actually.  It's the #1 contributor to good gas mileage.  Whenever possible, I try to keep the tach needle below 2200 rpm when accelerating, yet my top speed is almost always at least 5 mph over the limit.

The opposite annoy me:  those who accelerate super fast and loud with a plume of diesel exhaust, and then end up going slower than me.

I take the opposite approach and find I get rather good mileage, accelerate quickly through the gears to the highest one you need for the speed you're going, i.e. 4th at 30 mph, 5th at 40 mph, 6th at 50 mph.  That way, I waste less time and fuel in the more wasteful 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gears.

You're making me miss having a manual transmission.   :-(

Quote from: Brandon on July 30, 2019, 04:55:42 PM

Quote from: kphoger on July 29, 2019, 09:38:37 PM

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 29, 2019, 08:26:53 PM
People who drive way over the speed limit but some how take forever to accelerate from a stop sign/light. 

That's me, actually.  It's the #1 contributor to good gas mileage.  Whenever possible, I try to keep the tach needle below 2200 rpm when accelerating, yet my top speed is almost always at least 5 mph over the limit.

The opposite annoy me:  those who accelerate super fast and loud with a plume of diesel exhaust, and then end up going slower than me.

I take the opposite approach and find I get rather good mileage, accelerate quickly through the gears to the highest one you need for the speed you're going, i.e. 4th at 30 mph, 5th at 40 mph, 6th at 50 mph.  That way, I waste less time and fuel in the more wasteful 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gears.

You know, I had someone suggested that when gas was near $5/gal after Katrina, and it actually worked, for me.  I had an automatic, and I would just accelerate to causing speed faster than I used to, and actually raised my city MPG from 19-20 to 23-24.  Once the fuel prices dropped back below $4, I stopped.

Nope, not me.  The rate of acceleration is the #1 or #2 contributor to fuel economy, in my experience.  The other is weather:  fuel economy stinks in the winter no matter what, and the constant a/c use in the heat of summer also negatively affects fuel economy.  Those two items affect it more than either top cruising speed (with the exception of speeds above 70-75 mph) or tire inflation.

Honestly...  Having driven probably 7000 or so total miles in Mexico over the years, not much really phases me on the road.  Down there, I've encountered turnpike doubles going 20 mph or less up a long hill on a tollway, horse carts on the shoulder, BMWs and Porsches going 100 mph, trucks and buses passing on blind hills and curves, unpainted speed bumps on the highway, pot holes, missing drain covers, burnt-out stoplights, drivers running red lights, drivers going on the wrong side of a divided highway, cars with no brake lights, disabled vehicles left in the travel lane, dead bloated animals on the shoulder, police and military checkpoints, livestock on the road...  Stuff that used to annoy me just doesn't really phase me at all anymore.

But probably the one thing that still annoys me to no end is people who tailgate really close on the highway.  Especially truckers who do that.  It makes me really uneasy.

Quote from: kphoger on July 31, 2019, 02:33:21 PM
Honestly...  Having driven probably 7000 or so total miles in Mexico over the years, not much really phases me on the road.  Down there, I've encountered turnpike doubles going 20 mph or less up a long hill on a tollway, horse carts on the shoulder, BMWs and Porsches going 100 mph, trucks and buses passing on blind hills and curves, unpainted speed bumps on the highway, pot holes, missing drain covers, burnt-out stoplights, drivers running red lights, drivers going on the wrong side of a divided highway, cars with no brake lights, disabled vehicles left in the travel lane, dead bloated animals on the shoulder, police and military checkpoints, livestock on the road...  Stuff that used to annoy me just doesn't really phase me at all anymore.

I've been in Punta Cana, Dominican Republic a few times.

Ditto.

Here's the thing - they have some extremely-high tech traffic lights.  Significant structures holding the lights.   The walk sign is an animated person walking.  Numerous lights each direction at the intersection...overhead and side mounted.  Countdown timers.  That said, they're high-tech when they work.  Repairs can take a while when they don't.

On the other hand, they have speed bumps or something similar to our Botts Dots across their main roads.  People driving at all speeds - very slow to very fast - on anything that resembles pavement, regardless of the lines.   Our taxi driver on our first trip avoided a right light by turning right, making a u-ey between cars, then turning back onto the main road.  People and animals piled in trucks and buses as best as they could fit.

Their route shields are similar to the US shield, which are red and blue with a similar shape.  And they have at least 1 'roundabout' that is about double the size of a traditional Jersey traffic circle, with about a 750 foot circumference!

Interesting place!

Sometimes, I wish the SOP of "anything goes / whatever works" in other countries applied more in the US, as well, rather than everything being so regulated. If there are safety concerns, make it tougher to get a license, not harder to have fun and be efficient as you see fit on the road.

Some things that we could abandon entirely that I would not miss are: four-way stops, speed limits, double solid yellow lines.

Quote from: texaskdog on July 29, 2019, 05:45:25 PM
The one I hate is the right turn lane that also goes straight, and people insist on parking it there so people can't right turn.

Town I moved out of in Mississippi actually got rid of the dedicated right turn lanes at a few heavy traffic intersections when they "improved" them a couple of years ago...guess what, they get backed up from people just trying to make a right turn because of ONE car!

QuoteAlso the red left turn arrow when you can see no one is coming.  Finally most of those are going to the blinking yellow.

I'm going to go to hell for this, but if I don't see LEOs around, I just run them (when there is no traffic, of course) where the DOT hasn't gotten with the program and the timing on the lights is ridiculous. I'm not going to sit around and wait for lights to go through a full cycle just to make a left turn across no traffic. Light to the road I live on in VA has one, and at least someone had half a brain and set it up to stop the opposing lanes to give a green to left turns without going through a complete cycle first. But those seem to be the exception, rather than the rule.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 31, 2019, 03:21:21 PM
Our taxi driver on our first trip avoided a right light by turning right, making a u-ey between cars, then turning back onto the main road.

Which seems crazy, until you realize it's only about two steps away from a Michigan Left.

Would also eliminate the need for nebulous following too closely laws so cops can more easily run checks on out of state drivers for driver safety.

Quote from: kphoger on July 31, 2019, 06:30:20 PM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 31, 2019, 03:21:21 PM
Our taxi driver on our first trip avoided a right light by turning right, making a u-ey between cars, then turning back onto the main road.

Which seems crazy, until you realize it's only about two steps away from a Michigan Left.

A right light is two steps away from a wrong left. Wait, what?  :-P

Quote from: webny99 on July 31, 2019, 07:50:54 PM

Quote from: kphoger on July 31, 2019, 06:30:20 PM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 31, 2019, 03:21:21 PM
Our taxi driver on our first trip avoided a right light by turning right, making a u-ey between cars, then turning back onto the main road.

Which seems crazy, until you realize it's only about two steps away from a Michigan Left.

A right light is two steps away from a wrong left. Wait, what?  :-P

Sorry, but only in Ohio is "Michigan" a synonym for "wrong".

I know its been said many times, but the left lane campers annoy me the most!   Then the exit right from the far left lane on the divided 10 lane freeways is the spontaneous thing about drivers (as camping is the norm) that irks me.

Not keeping up with resurfacing is the bad thing about roads (especially here in FL) and feeling the potholes and the ruts from the semis as you drive.

Extremely annoying things about roads?  Four-way stops!

Quote from: kphoger on July 31, 2019, 09:01:49 PM
Extremely annoying things about roads?  Four-way stops!

Only bad when a line of cars as you have no idea who is there first!

I like when a traffic signal is out and you (in Florida) are to treat it as a four way, but the much busier arterial goes through it like its not there.  One time in Orlando a signal was out on Sand Lake Road at Turkey Lake Road (both busy arterials) and both roads were not stopping at all.  Each one thought the other was a side street and kept on going.  It was a miracle I made it unscathed through that horrific moment as the power was out.

The out signals and their treatments annoy me too! 

Quote from: kphoger on July 31, 2019, 08:46:45 PM

Quote from: webny99 on July 31, 2019, 07:50:54 PM

Quote from: kphoger on July 31, 2019, 06:30:20 PM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 31, 2019, 03:21:21 PM
Our taxi driver on our first trip avoided a right light by turning right, making a u-ey between cars, then turning back onto the main road.

Which seems crazy, until you realize it's only about two steps away from a Michigan Left.

A right light is two steps away from a wrong left. Wait, what?  :-P

Sorry, but only in Ohio is "Michigan" a synonym for "wrong".

I don't necessarily think Michigan lefts are wrong.

I was just doing a play on "right light", which was probably supposed to be "red light".
"Wrong" and "left" happen to both be antonyms for "right", and in this case right was wrong, so I just couldn't resist throwing an extra curveball in there as well.

Quote from: webny99 on July 31, 2019, 09:12:33 PM

Quote from: kphoger on July 31, 2019, 08:46:45 PM

Quote from: webny99 on July 31, 2019, 07:50:54 PM

Quote from: kphoger on July 31, 2019, 06:30:20 PM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 31, 2019, 03:21:21 PM
Our taxi driver on our first trip avoided a right light by turning right, making a u-ey between cars, then turning back onto the main road.

Which seems crazy, until you realize it's only about two steps away from a Michigan Left.

A right light is two steps away from a wrong left. Wait, what?  :-P

Sorry, but only in Ohio is "Michigan" a synonym for "wrong".

I don't necessarily think Michigan lefts are wrong.

I was just doing a play on "right light", which was probably supposed to be "red light".
"Wrong" and "left" happen to both be antonyms for "right", and in this case right was wrong, so I just couldn't resist throwing an extra curveball in there as well.

Michigan lefts are no more wrong than NJ's jughandles.  However, both do have a great purpose. NJ at least keeps slow traffic on the right, and Michigan frees up an extra signal phase or two as you do not have the left turn signals.

1. Drivers that wait until the cones force them to merge into one lane instead of doing it 2 miles ago like the signs advised them to do. This is 100% how traffic jams in construction sites happen.
2. As mentioned previously, drivers that lose their shit and go 10 under at the first sign of police lights.
3. Virginia specific: the "right-turn entry" lanes (https://goo.gl/maps/TWTkQtRQLrhSWhTH9) (idk what they're called) that allow you to turn right on red without stopping while oncoming traffic continues. People use these lanes as an excuse to not stop and wait for clear traffic then back things up trying to merge. I suppose that's what the Yield sign is for but everyone just uses Yield signs as an excuse to not stop.
4. Virginia/Maryland specific: where the hell are the shoulders on divided highways?! (https://goo.gl/maps/9fiJAHWbtxPYr6rN9) Who thought it was safe to have only 1" in between the lane marking and the grass?!

Quote from: csw on July 31, 2019, 10:15:45 PM
1. Drivers that wait until the cones force them to merge into one lane instead of doing it 2 miles ago like the signs advised them to do. This is 100% how traffic jams in construction sites happen.

It's called doing a zipper merge, which actually makes traffic flow smoother. In theory it would be better if everyone got over, but you'd be backed up even farther and waiting longer if they all did.

Quote from: csw on July 31, 2019, 10:15:45 PM
2. As mentioned previously, drivers that lose their shit and go 10 under at the first sign of police lights.

Agreed. I'll bring it down to the speed limit or 2-4 mph over, especially if I see on Waze there's a police trap ahead, etc, but I don't go -below- the speed limit. What's even more annoying is when you're on the interstate, you're in the left lane, and the person in front of you doing 5-10 mph over with cars all around them slams their brakes and goes 5-10 mph -under- the speed limit at the sight of each and every median break, especially when the median is forested, then speed back up. Look person, you're not getting pulled over when 100 people are all doing 5-10 mph above behind and in front of you. You just caused every -else- behind you to all hit their brakes too (because that's what drivers do, one hits their brakes, everyone or most others does too).

Quote from: csw on July 31, 2019, 10:15:45 PM
4. Virginia/Maryland specific: where the hell are the shoulders on divided highways?! (https://goo.gl/maps/9fiJAHWbtxPYr6rN9) Who thought it was safe to have only 1" in between the lane marking and the grass?!

Maryland from what I've seen has good access management standards and has full paved shoulders on a lot of divided highways.

Virginia is different though. A significant amount of the divided highways across the state were widened to that in the 60s, 70s, and 80s simply by constructing a parallel carriageway to the existing, older road. No thought for shoulders. The newer widenings from the 90s forward still follow that concept, however the new carriageways have full shoulders, and they now reconstruct the old roadway to also have full shoulders. You'll see a lot of this on parts of US-58, between Courtland and Emporia, South Hill to Boydton, and in other parts east of Hillsville. A lot nicer roadways. The only issue is - most divided highways were built before this standard, so there's not a lot of new ones to do. The only thing that could be done now is massively improving the older divided highways, however that would be quite expensive and we know how VDOT is when it comes to expensive things.

Another state that doesn't use shoulders often, even on newer widenings, is North Carolina. Don't fully agree with that standard, but they usually will have a graded shoulder that is suitable for stopping on, albeit still being grass. A 4 ft paved shoulder is given though.

In New York, at least, it is unnecessary to slow down to the speed limit when you see a speed trap. As long as you are doing speed limit +10 or less, you have nothing to worry about. I often cruise at approximately speed limit +15 on freeways, so I'll usually slow very slightly, but never using the brakes to do so. No need to disrupt traffic flow, especially on roads operating at or near capacity.

Quote from: csw on July 31, 2019, 10:15:45 PM
1. Drivers that wait until the cones force them to merge into one lane instead of doing it 2 miles ago like the signs advised them to do. This is 100% how traffic jams in construction sites happen.

Increasingly, signs are not instructing people to merge early, because it creates a lot of wasted space and unnecessary slow. Hence, the zipper merge. Lining up in two lanes instead of one cuts the length of the line in half and reduces aggressive behavior, both by people trying to get to the front of the line, and by those trying to stop them.

On something of a different note, one of the the things I hate about roads, and not the drivers on them, is when you're crossing what appears to be a beautiful river or gorge and the railings on the side of the bridge are too high for me to see over. I understand the safety element here, but it's just always a letdown that this is a view that I all too often miss.

Streets departments that fill potholes by just dumping a bunch of hot mix in, seemingly stomping on it with their work boots a couple of times, and calling it good.

Quote from: kphoger on August 01, 2019, 03:29:03 PM
Streets departments that fill potholes by just dumping a bunch of hot mix in, seemingly stomping on it with their work boots a couple of times, and calling it good.

Oh, man, you would go crazy driving down NY 286. It hasn't been paved in over 20 years, and they do more and more of this every year.

Quote from: kphoger on August 01, 2019, 03:29:03 PM
Streets departments that fill potholes by just dumping a bunch of hot mix in, seemingly stomping on it with their work boots a couple of times, and calling it good.

I saw that called a "throw and go" technique, though I don't remember where I saw that term.

Quote from: 1995hoo on August 01, 2019, 08:47:25 PM

Quote from: kphoger on August 01, 2019, 03:29:03 PM
Streets departments that fill potholes by just dumping a bunch of hot mix in, seemingly stomping on it with their work boots a couple of times, and calling it good.

I saw that called a "throw and go" technique, though I don't remember where I saw that term.

https://www.americanasphalt.com/asphalt-repair-techniques/

QuoteThrow-and-go asphalt patching: A temporary repair technique typically used in an emergency or during inclement weather– liquid asphalt is filled into a hole and then rolled over.

Here's a video showing it in process.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLZQvfGdcPw

When a traffic light is out of power and everyone just blows through it instead of doing an all way stop like you are suppose to.

Left lane campers, people who can't maintain the speed limit (the cause of traffic backups) like today I was traveling in a 45 mph zone with light traffic but the cars in front of me are moving 35 mph and then a traffic light goes red that you would have made had you been going 45 mph.

My biggest annoyance about the roads themselves is some areas with a huge lack of right turn lanes. Then on said roads, the people who seemingly do not understand that you can and should travel more to the left and not leave the right lane backed up for miles. One road near me has the right lane often backed up for miles, making it super hard for the opposing traffic to turn left, the traffic on side streets to exit onto the main road, and with the traffic in the left 2 lanes moving soooo much faster then the right lane, often even dangerous to travel in the same direction as the idiots.

Another annoying thing is when people turning do not move all the way over.  Imagine a street in an area with significant pedestrian traffic.  The street has parking lanes on both sides of the street.  If you are making a right turn, pull over into the parking lane to make your turn, so that the thru traffic behind you doesn't have to wait for the pedestrians to clear as you yield to them when turning right.

I've seen this too often.  Even at places with wide parking lanes and no parking right at the curb.  There is usually enough room for right turners to get out of the way, but they don't.

Quote from: mrsman on August 11, 2019, 03:39:31 PM
Another annoying thing is when people turning do not move all the way over.  Imagine a street in an area with significant pedestrian traffic.  The street has parking lanes on both sides of the street.  If you are making a right turn, pull over into the parking lane to make your turn, so that the thru traffic behind you doesn't have to wait for the pedestrians to clear as you yield to them when turning right.

I've seen this too often.  Even at places with wide parking lanes and no parking right at the curb.  There is usually enough room for right turners to get out of the way, but they don't.

Yup on the same note, when vehicles are turning left at permissive intersections, and pull all the way to the right side of the lane and sit there making it hard for you to make the opposing left.

Also, when people pull into the turn lanes, but feel they need to start braking before they enter said turn lane. Unless the turn lane queue is mostly full, you're supposed to slow down in the turn lane so you don't slow down all the people behind you going straight.

I don't typically stop short, and have no problem with it. And people around here are very consistent that they've simply been trained wrong: They hit the brake usually at the same point regardless of the length of turning lane or how many people are in it: right prior to starting to move over into the turn lane. Infact, many seem to hit the brake while changing lanes, then let go of the brake, before hitting it again when they need it. Sure, there are exceptions, but for way too many, its the norm.

Like the damn bus drivers who don't know how to handle speed bumps:
You are supposed to brake BEFORE hitting the speed bump, and release the brake or even accelerate while going over it. Hitting the brake while hitting the speed bump makes the force in both different directions far worse.

Also dump truck drivers who seemingly are trying to make the dump truck door slam less while putting it down by trying to stop each time the door is going to slam against the truck. That just makes it slam louder.  If you just drive at a slow, continual speed forward, the impact from the door to the truck will be minimized.

What really seems to piss me off on the road is when you're trying to pass someone who is going slower than the speed limit, and then they suddenly increase their speed. What also annoys me is when someone speeds past you, gets in front of you, then starts slowing down.

Quote from: CJResotko on December 08, 2019, 02:12:16 PM
What really seems to piss me off on the road is when you're try to pass someone who is going slower than the speed limit, and then they suddenly increase their speed. What also annoys me is when someone speeds past you, gets in front of you, then starts slowing down.

Add to that people who don't speed up to pass large trucks.

People are stupid, trust yourself and your driving skills.

Quote from: CJResotko on December 08, 2019, 02:12:16 PM
What really seems to piss me off on the road is when you're try to pass someone who is going slower than the speed limit, and then they suddenly increase their speed. What also annoys me is when someone speeds past you, gets in front of you, then starts slowing down.

This was especially annoying when I was driving an Isuzu cab-over box truck for a living.  With the pedal all the way to the floor, my top speed was just barely faster than the flow of traffic.  So, when someone would accelerate while I was passing, it was really quite dangerous:  I couldn't accelerate any further to complete the maneuver.

Quote from: roadman on December 09, 2019, 01:21:24 PM

Quote from: CJResotko on December 08, 2019, 02:12:16 PM
What really seems to piss me off on the road is when you're try to pass someone who is going slower than the speed limit, and then they suddenly increase their speed. What also annoys me is when someone speeds past you, gets in front of you, then starts slowing down.

Add to that people who don't speed up to pass large trucks.

Yeah that one really irks me. I was on I-75 riding behind a pickup truck that was in the left lane and was passing a semi. The speed limit in this area is 75 miles an hour and I have my cruise set at 80 this guy does 75 basically the same speed that the semi is moving to try to pass him.

Quote from: Flint1979 on December 30, 2019, 06:36:38 PM

Quote from: roadman on December 09, 2019, 01:21:24 PM

Quote from: CJResotko on December 08, 2019, 02:12:16 PM
What really seems to piss me off on the road is when you're try to pass someone who is going slower than the speed limit, and then they suddenly increase their speed. What also annoys me is when someone speeds past you, gets in front of you, then starts slowing down.

Add to that people who don't speed up to pass large trucks.

Yeah that one really irks me. I was on I-75 riding behind a pickup truck that was in the left lane and was passing a semi. The speed limit in this area is 75 miles an hour and I have my cruise set at 80 this guy does 75 basically the same speed that the semi is moving to try to pass him.

Agreed. I still get annoyed, but can understand somewhat when it's a semi micro-passing another semi (or worse, passing multiple semis in one move), but when someone in a car, pickup truck, or small vehicle that can clearly go much faster is micro-passing, I mean come on just hit 80 mph, get in front, then go back to your speed.

Quote from: sprjus4 on December 30, 2019, 06:47:24 PM

Quote from: Flint1979 on December 30, 2019, 06:36:38 PM

Quote from: roadman on December 09, 2019, 01:21:24 PM

Quote from: CJResotko on December 08, 2019, 02:12:16 PM
What really seems to piss me off on the road is when you're try to pass someone who is going slower than the speed limit, and then they suddenly increase their speed. What also annoys me is when someone speeds past you, gets in front of you, then starts slowing down.

Add to that people who don't speed up to pass large trucks.

Yeah that one really irks me. I was on I-75 riding behind a pickup truck that was in the left lane and was passing a semi. The speed limit in this area is 75 miles an hour and I have my cruise set at 80 this guy does 75 basically the same speed that the semi is moving to try to pass him.

Agreed. I still get annoyed, but can understand somewhat when it's a semi micro-passing another semi (or worse, passing multiple semis in one move), but when someone in a car, pickup truck, or small vehicle that can clearly go much faster is micro-passing, I mean come on just hit 80 mph, get in front, then go back to your speed.

Exactly. I'm pretty sure everyone wants to pass the semi. My goal is to always pass every semi I can. I just hate riding near them.

Quote from: Flint1979 on December 30, 2019, 06:56:16 PM
Exactly. I'm pretty sure everyone wants to pass the semi. My goal is to always pass every semi I can. I just hate riding near them.

If I'm behind it with some distance maintaining the same speed, I'm fine with it, but if I'm in the left lane beside it, I want to be there for the shortest amount of time I can be. The last thing I want is that thing to swerve slightly into my lane, and worst case scenario cause an accident, especially on a curve.

It's even worse when it's a narrow non-freeway 4-lane divided highway. I wait for a straightaway, and fly past then decrease speed back down. No way I'm micro-passing when the truck can barely fit in the lane and uses both lanes from time to time just to stay on the pavement.

People speeding past you and cutting you off.

Quote from: sprjus4 on December 30, 2019, 07:21:42 PM

Quote from: Flint1979 on December 30, 2019, 06:56:16 PM
Exactly. I'm pretty sure everyone wants to pass the semi. My goal is to always pass every semi I can. I just hate riding near them.

If I'm behind it with some distance maintaining the same speed, I'm fine with it, but if I'm in the left lane beside it, I want to be there for the shortest amount of time I can be. The last thing I want is that thing to swerve slightly into my lane, and worst case scenario cause an accident, especially on a curve.

It's even worse when it's a narrow non-freeway 4-lane divided highway. I wait for a straightaway, and fly past then decrease speed back down. No way I'm micro-passing when the truck can barely fit in the lane and uses both lanes from time to time just to stay on the pavement.

That makes sense. Earlier today I was doing 80 mph again on I-75 and was driving over the Zilwaukee Bridge which crosses the Saginaw River at a height of 125 feet in 40 mph winds. I came up next to a semi and just tilted away from him as I was passing him. My car was drifting pretty good. I've gone across the Mackinac Bridge in a blizzard before just before they shut the bridge down because of the weather and got stuck in the UP for the night that one was pretty bad especially as I was on the suspension part of the bridge I could feel it rocking back and forth.

I know people on here probably aren't familiar with my area. But the other night I was traveling south on Mackinaw Road approaching Tittabawassee Road in Kochville Township, just outside of Saginaw.

A little north of the intersection with Tittabawassee is a curve and the traffic light has a 90 second red cycle. The light was just going red and I knew it was still going to be red when I got to it so I started slowing down and behind and a truck is approaching me as I'm about 500 feet from the light this truck decides to pass me in the left turn lane and still have to stop for the light. What exactly the purpose of passing me only to stop at a red light I have no idea. So after the light turned green the truck is starting out slow as ever, we got past the turning lane for the oncoming traffic and I passed him back. I just don't understand why people are so stupid. He passed me in a turning lane. I passed him back legally.

I don't see the point in racing up to a red light.

Quote from: Flint1979 on December 31, 2019, 08:09:31 AM
I know people on here probably aren't familiar with my area. But the other night I was traveling south on Mackinaw Road approaching Tittabawassee Road in Kochville Township, just outside of Saginaw.

A little north of the intersection with Tittabawassee is a curve and the traffic light has a 90 second red cycle. The light was just going red and I knew it was still going to be red when I got to it so I started slowing down and behind and a truck is approaching me as I'm about 500 feet from the light this truck decides to pass me in the left turn lane and still have to stop for the light. What exactly the purpose of passing me only to stop at a red light I have no idea. So after the light turned green the truck is starting out slow as ever, we got past the turning lane for the oncoming traffic and I passed him back. I just don't understand why people are so stupid. He passed me in a turning lane. I passed him back legally.

I don't see the point in racing up to a red light.

Depends how slow you were going approaching that light.  If you were driving at such a slow speed that the trucker was able to pass you and fully get back into the proper lane, you were probably driving a little too slow.  Yes, there's no sense in slamming the brakes at a light, but at the same time you can't inch along as well.  I will sometimes take my foot off the gas approaching a light from a far distance away, but I'm doing so without any traffic behind me.  As always, consider others on the road - because while you may think you know what you're doing, the others have no clue what you're doing.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 31, 2019, 10:08:24 AM

Quote from: Flint1979 on December 31, 2019, 08:09:31 AM
I know people on here probably aren't familiar with my area. But the other night I was traveling south on Mackinaw Road approaching Tittabawassee Road in Kochville Township, just outside of Saginaw.

A little north of the intersection with Tittabawassee is a curve and the traffic light has a 90 second red cycle. The light was just going red and I knew it was still going to be red when I got to it so I started slowing down and behind and a truck is approaching me as I'm about 500 feet from the light this truck decides to pass me in the left turn lane and still have to stop for the light. What exactly the purpose of passing me only to stop at a red light I have no idea. So after the light turned green the truck is starting out slow as ever, we got past the turning lane for the oncoming traffic and I passed him back. I just don't understand why people are so stupid. He passed me in a turning lane. I passed him back legally.

I don't see the point in racing up to a red light.

Depends how slow you were going approaching that light.  If you were driving at such a slow speed that the trucker was able to pass you and fully get back into the proper lane, you were probably driving a little too slow.  Yes, there's no sense in slamming the brakes at a light, but at the same time you can't inch along as well.  I will sometimes take my foot off the gas approaching a light from a far distance away, but I'm doing so without any traffic behind me.  As always, consider others on the road - because while you may think you know what you're doing, the others have no clue what you're doing.

I was going about 25 mph and close to the light. He illegally passed me using the left turn lane to pass me in so that is how close to the light I was. If a cop had seen him do that he would have got a ticket

Quote from: CJResotko on January 03, 2020, 04:51:14 PM

Quote from: Flint1979 on January 01, 2020, 05:17:43 AM
Um 80 is the normal speed on a highway in Michigan. I'm not changing how I drive for someone that doesn't understand that the left lane is not a travel lane. I'm driving within the law.

The normal speed limit for a highway in Michigan is 70 mph. It's 75 on some areas as of 2017.

FTFY.  Flint1979 didn't mention the speed limit.

There's no reason you need to drive the speed limit in the left lane and block anybody from passing 5-10 mph over. Keep right except to pass.

While technically "illegal", if you're passing a vehicle traveling roughly the same speed as you, pick it up a few mph over and get past them. You're not going to get stopped by a cop for doing 78 mph in a 75 mph with traffic around you flowing 80+ mph. You're not some large semi who can't travel faster than 70 mph, stop micro-passing.

Quote from: sprjus4 on January 03, 2020, 05:03:18 PM
You're not going to get stopped by a cop for doing 78 mph in a 75 mph with traffic around you flowing 80+ mph.

Especially when the car behind is very clearly not a cop and therefore can't pull you over anyway.

Quote from: kphoger on January 03, 2020, 05:08:05 PM

Quote from: sprjus4 on January 03, 2020, 05:03:18 PM
You're not going to get stopped by a cop for doing 78 mph in a 75 mph with traffic around you flowing 80+ mph.

Especially when the car behind is very clearly not a cop and therefore can't pull you over anyway.

Especially if that car rides up way faster than you, and is tailgating you. I don't think a cop would be driving like that, and even if for whatever reason it was, he certainly isn't going to pull you over.

IME, cops are just as likely to race up behind me and tailgate me as anyone else.

Quote from: sprjus4 on January 03, 2020, 05:09:37 PM

Quote from: kphoger on January 03, 2020, 05:08:05 PM

Quote from: sprjus4 on January 03, 2020, 05:03:18 PM
You're not going to get stopped by a cop for doing 78 mph in a 75 mph with traffic around you flowing 80+ mph.

Especially when the car behind is very clearly not a cop and therefore can't pull you over anyway.

Especially if that car rides up way faster than you, and is tailgating you. I don't think a cop would be driving like that, and even if for whatever reason it was, he certainly isn't going to pull you over.

Cops tailgate just as bad, and in many times, worse than anyone else.  I've lost count of the number of state troopers and county sheriff's police that race up and ride my tail just so they can go faster.  They also tend to speed far worse than the average population from what I've observed.

^

My point was if the cop is driving that way, which I also have seen, he's certainly not pulling you over for speeding.

Quote from: sprjus4 on January 03, 2020, 05:03:18 PM
There's no reason you need to drive the speed limit in the left lane and block anybody from passing 5-10 mph over. Keep right except to pass.

While technically "illegal", if you're passing a vehicle traveling roughly the same speed as you, pick it up a few mph over and get past them. You're not going to get stopped by a cop for doing 78 mph in a 75 mph with traffic around you flowing 80+ mph. You're not some large semi who can't travel faster than 70 mph, stop micro-passing.

Exactly

Something that's been happening more and more often, although perhaps I'm just starting to notice it, is, when I'm driving on the interstate, I will spot someone following behind me, not especially closely, but for miles and miles and miles, all without passing or falling behind. If I slow down a bit, they slow down to match, and if I speed up a bit, they match that too.

It drives me crazy, especially at night, when the glare from their headlights in my side mirrors never moves.

For whatever reason, this happened again and again when I was on I-75 in Florida, but recently it's also been happening about once a day elsewhere. It used to be much more rare, though.

Now, I've realized that sometimes, these are just people who are getting off at the next exit, and so passing me isn't really an option for them, but at other times, I've had to slow down quite a bit, down to 45 miles an hour or so, just to get them to finally move ahead of me.

Quote from: CJResotko on July 18, 2020, 10:13:31 PM
Michigan: The Land of Lead-Foots

Really? You don't think motorists in other states go 10 mph over the limit? That's minor.

Quote from: CtrlAltDel on July 19, 2020, 02:24:28 AM
Something that's been happening more and more often, although perhaps I'm just starting to notice it, is, when I'm driving on the interstate, I will spot someone following behind me, not especially closely, but for miles and miles and miles, all without passing or falling behind. If I slow down a bit, they slow down to match, and if I speed up a bit, they match that too.

Some of that can be due to acclimated cruise control, which keeps a motorist a certain distance behind another vehicle. The system is so smooth the driver doesn't realize they have slowed down a bit.

Quote from: CtrlAltDel on July 19, 2020, 02:24:28 AM
Something that’s been happening more and more often, although perhaps I’m just starting to notice it, is, when I’m driving on the interstate, I will spot someone following behind me, not especially closely, but for miles and miles and miles, all without passing or falling behind. If I slow down a bit, they slow down to match, and if I speed up a bit, they match that too.

It drives me crazy, especially at night, when the glare from their headlights in my side mirrors never moves.

For whatever reason, this happened again and again when I was on I-75 in Florida, but recently it’s also been happening about once a day elsewhere. It used to be much more rare, though.

It’s even worse if they’re match your speed while sitting in your blind spot, which makes it almost impossible to pass cars going just a few mph less than you. Every time I’ve seen this, the speed-matching car has California plates.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 19, 2020, 03:31:09 AM

Quote from: CJResotko on July 18, 2020, 10:13:31 PM
Michigan: The Land of Lead-Foots

Really? You don't think motorists in other states go 10 mph over the limit? That's minor.

Quote from: CtrlAltDel on July 19, 2020, 02:24:28 AM
Something that's been happening more and more often, although perhaps I'm just starting to notice it, is, when I'm driving on the interstate, I will spot someone following behind me, not especially closely, but for miles and miles and miles, all without passing or falling behind. If I slow down a bit, they slow down to match, and if I speed up a bit, they match that too.

Some of that can be due to acclimated cruise control, which keeps a motorist a certain distance behind another vehicle. The system is so smooth the driver doesn't realize they have slowed down a bit.

They go more than just 10 mph over the speed limit. I was on I-75 yesterday doing 80 mph, the speed limit is 70 and I'm getting passed like I'm standing still.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 19, 2020, 03:31:09 AM

Quote from: CtrlAltDel on July 19, 2020, 02:24:28 AM
Something that's been happening more and more often, although perhaps I'm just starting to notice it, is, when I'm driving on the interstate, I will spot someone following behind me, not especially closely, but for miles and miles and miles, all without passing or falling behind. If I slow down a bit, they slow down to match, and if I speed up a bit, they match that too.

Some of that can be due to acclimated cruise control, which keeps a motorist a certain distance behind another vehicle. The system is so smooth the driver doesn't realize they have slowed down a bit.

Do you happen know, offhand, if there's a specific speed range for this type of cruise control? Because, if there is, I could perhaps avoid having to slow down so dramatically.

Quote from: US 89 on July 19, 2020, 11:03:45 AM

Quote from: CtrlAltDel on July 19, 2020, 02:24:28 AM
Something that's been happening more and more often, although perhaps I'm just starting to notice it, is, when I'm driving on the interstate, I will spot someone following behind me, not especially closely, but for miles and miles and miles, all without passing or falling behind. If I slow down a bit, they slow down to match, and if I speed up a bit, they match that too.
...

It's even worse if they're match your speed while sitting in your blind spot, which makes it almost impossible to pass cars going just a few mph less than you. Every time I've seen this, the speed-matching car has California plates.

Agreed (except for the part about California: plenty of native NY'ers do this to me too). This is one of my biggest pet peeves. It's the mindset of "I am in the fast lane, therefore, I must go faster than the car(s) on the right, even if it's 0.0001 mph faster!"

It's like they think that moving up into my blind spot somehow gives them "rights" to the fast lane, because hey, they're passing! Maybe. At some point. Someday. Argh!! Either speed up and go past, or admit this is fast enough! But no, some people just aren't satisfied with me driving "fast" speeds in the right lane, and must instead hang out in my blind spot and make me repeatedly speed up and/or slow down to properly adhere to KRETP.

Quote from: webny99 on July 19, 2020, 09:39:23 PM

Quote from: US 89 on July 19, 2020, 11:03:45 AM

Quote from: CtrlAltDel on July 19, 2020, 02:24:28 AM
Something that's been happening more and more often, although perhaps I'm just starting to notice it, is, when I'm driving on the interstate, I will spot someone following behind me, not especially closely, but for miles and miles and miles, all without passing or falling behind. If I slow down a bit, they slow down to match, and if I speed up a bit, they match that too.
...

It's even worse if they're match your speed while sitting in your blind spot, which makes it almost impossible to pass cars going just a few mph less than you. Every time I've seen this, the speed-matching car has California plates.

Agreed (except for the part about California: plenty of native NY'ers do this to me too). This is one of my biggest pet peeves. It's the mindset of "I am in the fast lane, therefore, I must go faster than the car(s) on the right, even if it's 0.0001 mph faster!"

It's like they think that moving up into my blind spot somehow gives them "rights" to the fast lane, because hey, they're passing! Maybe. At some point. Someday. Argh!! Either speed up and go past, or admit this is fast enough! But no, some people just aren't satisfied with me driving "fast" speeds in the right lane, and must instead hang out in my blind spot and make me repeatedly speed up and/or slow down to properly adhere to KRETP.

Being in the "fast lane" has nothing to do with it.  Happens to me all the time (or did, prior to 2020) passing someone who is in the right lane.

Quote from: vdeane on July 19, 2020, 10:18:27 PM
Being in the "fast lane" has nothing to do with it.  Happens to me all the time (or did, prior to 2020) passing someone who is in the right lane.

I'm not sure I agree. The right lane is the travel lane, so the person on the left is ultimately responsible to be actively passing. If it's you, and someone comes up on the right and parks in your blind spot, speed up a little and move right. Problem solved.

You know what I hate?  When I'm approaching someone in the left lane from behind, and before the gap starts to become inadequate following distance, I put on my signal, and if the right lane is clear, I calmly move to the right lane while maintaining my speed, and then the car I was about to pass immediately moves to the right lane in front of me because "ZOMG NO, CAN'T LET SOMEONE PASS ME ON THE RIGHT!"

Quote from: stridentweasel on July 20, 2020, 12:58:26 PM
You know what I hate?  When I'm approaching someone in the left lane from behind, and before the gap starts to become inadequate following distance, I put on my signal, and if the right lane is clear, I calmly move to the right lane while maintaining my speed, and then the car I was about to pass immediately moves to the right lane in front of me because "ZOMG NO, CAN'T LET SOMEONE PASS ME ON THE RIGHT!"

I'm OK with that. They should have been on the right to begin with: It's unfortunate they waited until you moved right, but at least they did what they were supposed to, even if it was delayed.

Quote from: CtrlAltDel on July 19, 2020, 02:24:28 AM
Something that's been happening more and more often, although perhaps I'm just starting to notice it, is, when I'm driving on the interstate, I will spot someone following behind me, not especially closely, but for miles and miles and miles, all without passing or falling behind. If I slow down a bit, they slow down to match, and if I speed up a bit, they match that too.

It drives me crazy, especially at night, when the glare from their headlights in my side mirrors never moves.

For whatever reason, this happened again and again when I was on I-75 in Florida, but recently it's also been happening about once a day elsewhere. It used to be much more rare, though.

Now, I've realized that sometimes, these are just people who are getting off at the next exit, and so passing me isn't really an option for them, but at other times, I've had to slow down quite a bit, down to 45 miles an hour or so, just to get them to finally move ahead of me.

A lot of newer cars (even cheap cars) have radar cruise control that matches the speed of the car in front within reason - this could be part of the problem. I agree it's annoying.

What's even more annoying is driving a car with one of those. We rented a car that had that once and I hated it–I would come up behind someone who was going slower, and before I could change lanes and pass them, the adaptive cruise would kick in and slow me down. Then the entire population of Kansas would pile into the left lane to pass both of us, and I was stuck dawdling behind the slower car.

There was no way to turn it off completely, only reduce the distance that was triggering it. If I owned a car that had that I'd see if I could get a mechanic to aim the sensor at the sky or something.

Quote from: webny99 on July 20, 2020, 01:11:53 PM

Quote from: stridentweasel on July 20, 2020, 12:58:26 PM
You know what I hate?  When I'm approaching someone in the left lane from behind, and before the gap starts to become inadequate following distance, I put on my signal, and if the right lane is clear, I calmly move to the right lane while maintaining my speed, and then the car I was about to pass immediately moves to the right lane in front of me because "ZOMG NO, CAN'T LET SOMEONE PASS ME ON THE RIGHT!"

I'm OK with that. They should have been on the right to begin with: It's unfortunate they waited until you moved right, but at least they did what they were supposed to, even if it was delayed.

I'm OK with it too.

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 20, 2020, 02:09:00 PM
What's even more annoying is driving a car with one of those. We rented a car that had that once and I hated it–I would come up behind someone who was going slower, and before I could change lanes and pass them, the adaptive cruise would kick in and slow me down. Then the entire population of Kansas would pile into the left lane to pass both of us, and I was stuck dawdling behind the slower car.

LOL. You would love the NYS Thruway. That happens even without adaptive cruise control.

Quote from: kphoger on July 20, 2020, 03:35:47 PM

Quote from: webny99 on July 20, 2020, 01:11:53 PM

Quote from: stridentweasel on July 20, 2020, 12:58:26 PM
You know what I hate?  When I'm approaching someone in the left lane from behind, and before the gap starts to become inadequate following distance, I put on my signal, and if the right lane is clear, I calmly move to the right lane while maintaining my speed, and then the car I was about to pass immediately moves to the right lane in front of me because "ZOMG NO, CAN'T LET SOMEONE PASS ME ON THE RIGHT!"

I'm OK with that. They should have been on the right to begin with: It's unfortunate they waited until you moved right, but at least they did what they were supposed to, even if it was delayed.

I'm OK with it too.

I get that the other driver should have been in the right lane to begin with, but should've, could've, would've--we've all been there.  If you can see that someone's about to pass you on the right, just wait a few seconds and then move over when the lane's clear.  Don't cut off the passing driver just to prove your sudden stroke of enlightenment about which lane to be in!

There's a real reason why this annoys me so much.  When you're approaching someone slower in the left lane and you want to pass, there are three ways to go about it: the smart way, the dumb and dangerous way, and the pointless way.  The smart way is to make a careful lane change to the right when you notice other driver is going slower, and pass the other driver on the right ("careful lane change" meaning, be sure the lane is clear and don't just shove your way in).  The dumb and dangerous way is to tailgate the other driver (i.e., illegally follow too closely) until they change lanes, under the simultaneous assumptions that they actually care and won't brake-check you.  The pointless way is to follow the driver in the left lane at a two-second following distance until the other driver moves over, which might be never.  If you don't want to waste time, do it the smart way.  If the other driver pulls a "ZOMG, NO PASSING ON THE RIGHT!" move on you, then the other driver is wasting your time just to prove a point that really doesn't help anyone in said situation at said time.

Quote from: webny99 on July 20, 2020, 12:30:44 PM

Quote from: vdeane on July 19, 2020, 10:18:27 PM
Being in the "fast lane" has nothing to do with it.  Happens to me all the time (or did, prior to 2020) passing someone who is in the right lane.

I'm not sure I agree. The right lane is the travel lane, so the person on the left is ultimately responsible to be actively passing. If it's you, and someone comes up on the right and parks in your blind spot, speed up a little and move right. Problem solved.

They don't come up from behind.  I start passing them and they speed up.

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 20, 2020, 02:09:00 PM
What's even more annoying is driving a car with one of those. We rented a car that had that once and I hated it–I would come up behind someone who was going slower, and before I could change lanes and pass them, the adaptive cruise would kick in and slow me down. Then the entire population of Kansas would pile into the left lane to pass both of us, and I was stuck dawdling behind the slower car.

There was no way to turn it off completely, only reduce the distance that was triggering it. If I owned a car that had that I'd see if I could get a mechanic to aim the sensor at the sky or something.

Huh.  Last rental I rented had the capability to switch between adaptive and traditional cruise control.

Adaptive cruise control is just annoying and inefficient.

My wife's Acura has adaptive cruise control. It can be switched to work like a traditional cruise control, but the way to do it is not intuitive (I'd have to look it up in the owner's manual). Neither of us has ever done it, and I'm not inclined to change it because of the obvious safety concern if I forget to change it back and then my wife uses the cruise control thinking it's the adaptive one that's active.

I've gotten to like the adaptive cruise, but it did take some getting used to and adjusting. The default following distance was too far, so people would cut into the gap, which in turn makes adaptive cruise control self-defeating because it'll slow down when someone cuts in. So we changed the setting to have to follow more closely than the default. More important is to get a sense for what will cause it to brake and when it's likely to do so, in order to allow us to hit "cancel" on a preemptive basis to prevent abrupt braking or similar when we don't want it to slow down. (An example of this might be the situation Scott5114 cites. If we're on a highway that has a reasonable amount of other traffic such that the passing lane won't be empty when we catch that truck up ahead, for example, I'll often cancel the cruise control in advance of catching the truck in order to ensure the system won't slow me down when I'm getting ready to change lanes–essentially, in other words, I want to be prepared to put the hammer down at any time. Not a big deal to me now that I'm used to how it works. I do appreciate that Acura has long included a "Cancel" button on its cruise control controls, as that allows you to deactivate it without hitting the brake or turning off the master cruise switch that then erases the set speed memory.)

Once you get used to it, it can be a nice feature to have. I use it in heavier traffic than I'm willing to use the conventional cruise control on our other cars. It just sometimes requires a little more thinking ahead as you drive, which is never entirely a bad thing. I also sometimes use it on surface streets when I want to keep my speed down. I use the cruise control in all of our cars at 26 mph on the 25-mph street leading in and out of our neighborhood just to annoy the people who want to go 45 to 50.

One day just for fun I didn't hit the brakes approaching a stopped car at a red light (though my foot was poised to slam on the pedal). The adaptive cruise brought the car to a stop behind the stopped car. Downside was, it accelerated too slowly when he started moving again and I wound up taking back control myself.

The feature my wife complains about is "lane-keeping assist." At speeds higher than 45 mph, if you try to change lanes without a signal, it'll push back. She complained about that and she didn't like my answer when I said it's easy to avoid that by using your blinker like you're supposed to, especially in her Acura where a quick flick of the stalk gives three blinks (and is enough to satisfy the lane-keeping assist). I don't know why she thinks she's exempt from using her blinkers.


(Edited twice to add additional comments I thought of later.)

Quote from: vdeane on July 20, 2020, 09:26:12 PM

Quote from: webny99 on July 20, 2020, 12:30:44 PM

Quote from: vdeane on July 19, 2020, 10:18:27 PM
Being in the "fast lane" has nothing to do with it.  Happens to me all the time (or did, prior to 2020) passing someone who is in the right lane.

I'm not sure I agree. The right lane is the travel lane, so the person on the left is ultimately responsible to be actively passing. If it's you, and someone comes up on the right and parks in your blind spot, speed up a little and move right. Problem solved.

They don't come up from behind.  I start passing them and they speed up.

This happens A LOT.  I once read somewhere that if the person you're passing isn't using cruise control and they aren't really paying attention, it's a natural reaction for that person to subconsciously try to match the speed of your car since it's a specific reference point vs nothing at all.   

I was on US-23 yesterday and had a white Cadillac doing about 60 mph in the left lane between I-94 and M-14. After the M-14 interchange it runs multiplexed with US-23 for a couple miles and the freeway gets a third lane. So I'm on the stretch between I-94 and M-14 behind a white Cadillac that refused to move over to the right lane while traveling at about 60 mph. I was able to pass the Cadillac just before Plymouth Road and kept looking back and that Cadillac just remained in the left lane doing 60 mph. I was like I don't at all understand why that Cadillac won't move over, there was a massive line forming behind the Cadillac and he just stays there in the left lane thinking oh I'm not doing anything wrong. The hell you aren't you are impeding the flow of traffic.

Quote from: stridentweasel on July 20, 2020, 05:21:03 PM

Quote from: kphoger on July 20, 2020, 03:35:47 PM

Quote from: webny99 on July 20, 2020, 01:11:53 PM

Quote from: stridentweasel on July 20, 2020, 12:58:26 PM
You know what I hate?  When I'm approaching someone in the left lane from behind, and before the gap starts to become inadequate following distance, I put on my signal, and if the right lane is clear, I calmly move to the right lane while maintaining my speed, and then the car I was about to pass immediately moves to the right lane in front of me because "ZOMG NO, CAN'T LET SOMEONE PASS ME ON THE RIGHT!"

I'm OK with that. They should have been on the right to begin with: It's unfortunate they waited until you moved right, but at least they did what they were supposed to, even if it was delayed.

I'm OK with it too.

I get that the other driver should have been in the right lane to begin with, but should've, could've, would've--we've all been there.  If you can see that someone's about to pass you on the right, just wait a few seconds and then move over when the lane's clear.  Don't cut off the passing driver just to prove your sudden stroke of enlightenment about which lane to be in!

There's a real reason why this annoys me so much.  When you're approaching someone slower in the left lane and you want to pass, there are three ways to go about it: the smart way, the dumb and dangerous way, and the pointless way.  The smart way is to make a careful lane change to the right when you notice other driver is going slower, and pass the other driver on the right ("careful lane change" meaning, be sure the lane is clear and don't just shove your way in).  The dumb and dangerous way is to tailgate the other driver (i.e., illegally follow too closely) until they change lanes, under the simultaneous assumptions that they actually care and won't brake-check you.  The pointless way is to follow the driver in the left lane at a two-second following distance until the other driver moves over, which might be never.  If you don't want to waste time, do it the smart way.  If the other driver pulls a "ZOMG, NO PASSING ON THE RIGHT!" move on you, then the other driver is wasting your time just to prove a point that really doesn't help anyone in said situation at said time.

I don't assume that someone changing lanes wants to pass me.  There have been many times I've been in the situation you described (either as the faster or slower driver), and the faster driver was actually changing lanes in preparation to exit the highway.  In that case, the slower driver basically just got out of the way of the other faster drivers wishing to pass on the left.

Quote from: kphoger on July 21, 2020, 11:54:22 AM
I don't assume that someone changing lanes wants to pass me.  There have been many times I've been in the situation you described (either as the faster or slower driver), and the faster driver was actually changing lanes in preparation to exit the highway.  In that case, the slower driver basically just got out of the way of the other faster drivers wishing to pass on the left.

I'd agree that this sort of thing varies from situation to situation.  I understand, generally agree with, and try to abide by the "keep right except to pass" rule (law in some places).  But in practice, I think it's more like "keep right, except to pass, and except any other reason that warrants being in the left lane for a little bit."

If I was in the left lane and saw someone approaching from behind on the right, if I could see that car approaching me faster than my own speed, I would wait for them to pass, and then I would move to the right.  If it didn't look like they wanted to pass on the right, I would move to the right as soon as I found it clear and prudent to do so.

And sure, maybe some drivers who change lanes to the right in front of a faster driver don't have a clear impression that the driver from behind is already trying to pass on the right, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and not be so annoyed if they're way ahead of me.  But there are some times where it seems pretty blatant that they just want to block someone from passing on the right, because their sense of pride doesn't want to allow them to be passed on the right, because they know they should have been in the right lane but were a bit late to move over.  It's the people who pull that sudden move just to prove a point who really get on my nerves.

I get why you might find it irksome, but personally, I don't mind being the one that's slightly inconvenienced, if it means the system will now work as intended for the next five or ten cars that want to pass.

Quote from: stridentweasel on July 21, 2020, 01:11:13 PM
And sure, maybe some drivers who change lanes to the right in front of a faster driver don't have a clear impression that the driver from behind is already trying to pass on the right, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and not be so annoyed if they're way ahead of me.  But there are some times where it seems pretty blatant that they just want to block someone from passing on the right, because their sense of pride doesn't want to allow them to be passed on the right, because they know they should have been in the right lane but were a bit late to move over.  It's the people who pull that sudden move just to prove a point who really get on my nerves.

You can tell their motives by that?

I sometimes move right in that situation precisely because I don't want the other driver to be annoyed that I made them pass me on the right.  Not pride, but rather consideration. 

Quote from: webny99 on July 21, 2020, 01:54:41 PM
I get why you might find it irksome, but personally, I don't mind being the one that's slightly inconvenienced, if it means the system will now work as intended for the next five or ten cars that want to pass.

Agreed.  If someone does that to me, I gladly shift back to the left and pass them–happy, in fact, that they finally moved over to the right and allowed the highway to function as intended.

In these situations, I rarely find only the two vehicles in play.  Generally, the driver moving right ends up allowing multiple drivers to pass on the left.  If he waits for the first driver to pass on the right, it may be too late to then move right, because five other drivers have decided to pass on the right as well by then.

Quote from: kphoger on July 21, 2020, 01:58:56 PM
You can tell their motives by that?

Sometimes the Force is with you, and sometimes the Force, well, isn't.

Quote from: webny99 on July 20, 2020, 03:46:41 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 20, 2020, 02:09:00 PM
What's even more annoying is driving a car with one of those. We rented a car that had that once and I hated it–I would come up behind someone who was going slower, and before I could change lanes and pass them, the adaptive cruise would kick in and slow me down. Then the entire population of Kansas would pile into the left lane to pass both of us, and I was stuck dawdling behind the slower car.

LOL. You would love the NYS Thruway. That happens even without adaptive cruise control.

If the entire population of Kansas were on the NYS Thruway, then I could finally realize my dream of taking over the state of Kansas while they're all up there.

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 22, 2020, 06:34:51 AM
If the entire population of Kansas were on the NYS Thruway, then I could finally realize my dream of taking over the state of Kansas while they're all up there.

How are you going to fix all of Oklahoma's signs from up here?

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 22, 2020, 06:34:51 AM

Quote from: webny99 on July 20, 2020, 03:46:41 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 20, 2020, 02:09:00 PM
What's even more annoying is driving a car with one of those. We rented a car that had that once and I hated it–I would come up behind someone who was going slower, and before I could change lanes and pass them, the adaptive cruise would kick in and slow me down. Then the entire population of Kansas would pile into the left lane to pass both of us, and I was stuck dawdling behind the slower car.

LOL. You would love the NYS Thruway. That happens even without adaptive cruise control.

If the entire population of Kansas were on the NYS Thruway, then I could finally realize my dream of taking over the state of Kansas while they're all up there.

Oh, they're not all Kansans, but the entire population of Kansas was a good approximation.  (Sorry to spoil your plans :))

Quote from: stridentweasel on July 22, 2020, 07:32:41 AM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 22, 2020, 06:34:51 AM
If the entire population of Kansas were on the NYS Thruway, then I could finally realize my dream of taking over the state of Kansas while they're all up there.

How are you going to fix all of Oklahoma's signs from up here?

I'm just going to enjoy yours, and let the Texans deal with everything south of Braman, I guess. :D

Why is it that so many idiots forget the "ON RED" part of RTOR? That means when you clearly see me making a U-turn while you have a red light, YOUR ASS SHOULD NOT BE MOVING INTO MY TRAVEL PATH (unless "U-Turn Yield to Right Turn" sign is present).

Quote from: Scott5114 on September 10, 2020, 03:08:15 PM
for no reason?

Are you saying...  keeping TheHighwayMan394 from occasionally getting annoyed isn't reason enough to annoy 85% of drivers on the road every day?

Quote from: kphoger on September 10, 2020, 03:15:10 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on September 10, 2020, 03:08:15 PM
for no reason?

Are you saying...  keeping TheHighwayMan394 from occasionally getting annoyed isn't reason enough to annoy 85% of drivers on the road every day?

I would say almost getting into an accident because morons not understanding that RTOR is a privilege, not a right, is a little more than "occasionally getting annoyed".

My biggest beef is with the folks who keep their blinker on for miles; like could you turn already or what?

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on September 10, 2020, 04:06:41 PM

Quote from: kphoger on September 10, 2020, 03:15:10 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on September 10, 2020, 03:08:15 PM
for no reason?

Are you saying...  keeping TheHighwayMan394 from occasionally getting annoyed isn't reason enough to annoy 85% of drivers on the road every day?

I would say almost getting into an accident because morons not understanding that RTOR is a privilege, not a right, is a little more than "occasionally getting annoyed".

Well, yeah, but you're putting the blame where it belongs, onto the morons who aren't following the rules, not advocating the abolition of RTOR.

Yeah, I just figure people can't hear the blinker clicking for whatever reason.  It annoys me, but I'm gradually learning to get over it.

Nothing beats getting stuck behind a semi truck in a construction zone on an Interstate highway.

Quote from: Flint1979 on September 10, 2020, 11:08:18 PM
Nothing beats getting stuck behind a semi truck in a construction zone on an Interstate highway.

Had that happen once on I-85 in North Carolina, the interstate was down to 1 lane for about 15 miles, the work zone speed limit was 55 mph, and a semi was leading the group at a smooth 35 - 40 mph with no passing opportunity. Nobody was in front of them the entire time. Keep in mind, this work zone had a 12 foot lane, and at least 4 foot shoulders on both sides. It was plenty wide with room for error, it's not like it was extremely narrow with 11 foot lanes, walls on both sides with no shoulders, etc. that would naturally make a trucker want to drive slower.

If a semi is doing the speed limit or greater, it doesn't bother me (even if it's doing 55 mph and I'd otherwise be doing 60 - 65 mph, it's still acceptable). If you're going to crawl at 15 - 20 mph under the speed limit, well...

Quote from: sprjus4 on September 11, 2020, 12:16:59 AM

Quote from: Flint1979 on September 10, 2020, 11:08:18 PM
Nothing beats getting stuck behind a semi truck in a construction zone on an Interstate highway.

Had that happen once on I-85 in North Carolina, the interstate was down to 1 lane for about 15 miles, the work zone speed limit was 55 mph, and a semi was leading the group at a smooth 35 - 40 mph with no passing opportunity. Nobody was in front of them the entire time. Keep in mind, this work zone had a 12 foot lane, and at least 4 foot shoulders on both sides. It was plenty wide with room for error, it's not like it was extremely narrow with 11 foot lanes, walls on both sides with no shoulders, etc. that would naturally make a trucker want to drive slower.

If a semi is doing the speed limit or greater, it doesn't bother me (even if it's doing 55 mph and I'd otherwise be doing 60 - 65 mph, it's still acceptable). If you're going to crawl at 15 - 20 mph under the speed limit, well...

I was just on I-74 in Illinois last week and you'd go through a construction zone, then five miles later there's another construction zone, then that ends and it seemed like every five miles or so you were hitting a construction zone through most of the state. Then I-74 at the Illinois River is closed down so I had to take I-474 around Peoria which wasn't bad but still too much construction on one highway.

So, for example, you would not turn right on red at this random location (https://goo.gl/maps/p9YZo2NaQ5q8Uw6Y8).

So your answer is "yes":  You never turn right on red.

?

Seems like based on your various assessments, NTOR signage would be posted, and green cycles aren't long enough support the traffic flowing thru these intersections.

Tulsa traffic does suck, though, gotta give him that.

^
If the vision is zero, let's reduce the national speed limit to 35 mph to reduce fatal crashes with camera enforcement for anybody speeding on all roads. We'll figure out how to pay for that later. Better yet, let's just ban cars.

Quote from: sprjus4 on September 11, 2020, 12:48:08 PM
Better yet, let's just ban cars.

I would not be surprised if that is indeed the end goal of at least a few of the advocates.  Privately-owned cars and human-driven cars, at least.  Subscription-based self-driving ridesharing fleets summoned with smartphone apps and shared with other people will, of course, be allowed as a supplement to public transit and bicycling.

The only people who oppose turns on red don't drive.

At least I hope they don't.

:popcorn:

Quote from: sprjus4 on September 11, 2020, 12:48:08 PM
^
If the vision is zero, let's reduce the national speed limit to 35 mph to reduce fatal crashes with camera enforcement for anybody speeding on all roads. We'll figure out how to pay for that later. Better yet, let's just ban cars.

Joan Claybrook, is that you?

A better Tulsa example.  If the grey car in this GSV shot (https://goo.gl/maps/oM1iv2WwLG3Z3JC86) is turning right, what would be dangerous about doing so against the red light?

- No vehicles at all coming from the left.
- Opposing traffic has red lights.
- No pedestrians in sight.

I'll say this about RTOR:

If turning right on a red light after coming to a full stop was always inherently more dangerous than turning right at a stop sign, then I would be more inclined to ban it everywhere.  But be honest, is it?

Do I support RTOR prohibitions at more intersections?  Yes.  Do I support a 100% blanket RTOR prohibition?  No.

Quote from: stridentweasel on September 11, 2020, 01:59:56 PM
If turning right on a red light after coming to a full stop was always inherently more dangerous than turning right at a stop sign, then I would be more inclined to ban it everywhere.  But be honest, is it?

Heck, just look at the difference in how Illinois and Missouri treat right turn slip lanes.

Right turn slip with stoplight control (https://goo.gl/maps/d5TxZSuqo9FKqB8Z8)
Right turn slip with yield sign control (https://goo.gl/maps/Z87YAL9aTpcpHaGd9)

I tend to think some places could do with part-time restrictions on turning on red. For example, intersections in downtown business districts that experience high pedestrian volume during the workday but that empty out for the evenings and overnight could have "No Turn on Red 7:00 AM to 7:00 PM Weekdays" as the restriction, except perhaps in specific locations where the volume is higher at different hours, such as near sports arenas or the like.

Quote from: 1995hoo on September 11, 2020, 02:34:48 PM
I tend to think some places could do with part-time restrictions on turning on red. For example, intersections in downtown business districts that experience high pedestrian volume during the workday but that empty out for the evenings and overnight could have "No Turn on Red 7:00 AM to 7:00 PM Weekdays" as the restriction, except perhaps in specific locations where the volume is higher at different hours, such as near sports arenas or the like.

Which would suck on holidays during which 80% of the workforce in that area is at home firing up the grill.

Also, I'm not sure how different 10:15 AM would really be from 8:15 PM w/r/t pedestrian traffic in such areas.

Just to spray some gas on the debate: anyone against RTOR should automatically be totally against any roundabouts, since those are essentially RTOR with red light always on. 

Quote from: kphoger on September 11, 2020, 02:50:33 PM

Quote from: 1995hoo on September 11, 2020, 02:34:48 PM
I tend to think some places could do with part-time restrictions on turning on red. For example, intersections in downtown business districts that experience high pedestrian volume during the workday but that empty out for the evenings and overnight could have "No Turn on Red 7:00 AM to 7:00 PM Weekdays" as the restriction, except perhaps in specific locations where the volume is higher at different hours, such as near sports arenas or the like.

Which would suck on holidays during which 80% of the workforce in that area is at home firing up the grill.

....

It would, but it's better than the 24/7 no turn on red restrictions that places like DC have been trending towards.

We do have places in Northern Virginia where the no turn on red applies only during the day, though I can't think of any where it's weekdays-only. That's part of what prompted me to mention the idea. There are also a lot of them in Alexandria where the sign says "No Turn on Red When Pedestrians Are Present." That might be one way to address your issue as to holidays. (One problem I have with the concept of "holidays" as a delineator is that the workforce presence can vary greatly depending on which holiday it is, as there are some holidays that aren't observed by large segments of the private sector.)

Quote from: kalvado on September 11, 2020, 02:56:51 PM
Just to spray some gas on the debate: anyone against RTOR should automatically be totally against any roundabouts, since those are essentially RTOR with red light always on.

No, those are a yield.  Stopping first isn't necessary if the roundabout is clear.  Whether that's safer at a particular intersection vs. always stopping first (to stridentweasel's point) is another matter.

I was rather confused by some of the remarks regarding when RTOR was introduced, and so I did a little research.

ROTR was introduced in Los Angeles in 1925.  In fact, until 1929, you didn't even have to stop before turning (too many people don't even now).  It was California-wide after 1947, and other Western states followed suit. By the end of 1972, there were 13 states that allowed RTOR at any intersection unless specifically prohibited. I remember US maps and atlases with state lists that included (along with things like highway speed limits) whether you could RTOR there.

It did become much more widespread during the mid-1970s fuel embargo.

Since I grew up in California in the 60s-70s, I never thought of RTOR as something new or unusual -- it wasn't, for us.

Sources:
https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/citydig-the-history-of-turning-right-in-los-angeles/ (https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/citydig-the-history-of-turning-right-in-los-angeles/)
https://www.cga.ct.gov/ps99/rpt/olr/htm/99-r-1021.htm (https://www.cga.ct.gov/ps99/rpt/olr/htm/99-r-1021.htm)

Quote from: wanderer2575 on September 11, 2020, 03:15:31 PM

Quote from: kalvado on September 11, 2020, 02:56:51 PM
Just to spray some gas on the debate: anyone against RTOR should automatically be totally against any roundabouts, since those are essentially RTOR with red light always on.

No, those are a yield. Stopping first isn't necessary if the roundabout is clear. ....

I wish more people understood that second point (applies to flashing yellow arrows, too). The failure of American drivers to signal properly doesn't help, of course.

Quote from: GaryA on September 11, 2020, 03:16:31 PM
I was rather confused by some of the remarks regarding when RTOR was introduced, and so I did a little research.

ROTR was introduced in Los Angeles in 1925.  In fact, until 1929, you didn't even have to stop before turning (too many people don't even now).  It was California-wide after 1947, and other Western states followed suit. By the end of 1972, there were 13 states that allowed RTOR at any intersection unless specifically prohibited. I remember US maps and atlases with state lists that included (along with things like highway speed limits) whether you could RTOR there.

It did become much more widespread during the mid-1970s fuel embargo.

Since I grew up in California in the 60s-70s, I never thought of RTOR as something new or unusual -- it wasn't, for us.

Sources:
https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/citydig-the-history-of-turning-right-in-los-angeles/ (https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/citydig-the-history-of-turning-right-in-los-angeles/)
https://www.cga.ct.gov/ps99/rpt/olr/htm/99-r-1021.htm (https://www.cga.ct.gov/ps99/rpt/olr/htm/99-r-1021.htm)

Those facts don't fit the theory, though, so they should be disregarded.

Quote from: wanderer2575 on September 11, 2020, 03:15:31 PM

Quote from: kalvado on September 11, 2020, 02:56:51 PM
Just to spray some gas on the debate: anyone against RTOR should automatically be totally against any roundabouts, since those are essentially RTOR with red light always on.

No, those are a yield.  Stopping first isn't necessary if the roundabout is clear.  Whether that's safer at a particular intersection vs. always stopping first (to stridentweasel's point) is another matter.

Well, I have to agree - RTOR is safer than a roundabout.

No way you can call a two-lane roundabout more dangerous for pedestrians than a four-way stop between four-lane roads with turn lanes.

Quote from: 1995hoo on September 11, 2020, 03:03:11 PM

Quote from: kphoger on September 11, 2020, 02:50:33 PM

Quote from: 1995hoo on September 11, 2020, 02:34:48 PM
I tend to think some places could do with part-time restrictions on turning on red. For example, intersections in downtown business districts that experience high pedestrian volume during the workday but that empty out for the evenings and overnight could have "No Turn on Red 7:00 AM to 7:00 PM Weekdays" as the restriction, except perhaps in specific locations where the volume is higher at different hours, such as near sports arenas or the like.

Which would suck on holidays during which 80% of the workforce in that area is at home firing up the grill.

....

It would, but it's better than the 24/7 no turn on red restrictions that places like DC have been trending towards.

We do have places in Northern Virginia where the no turn on red applies only during the day, though I can't think of any where it's weekdays-only. That's part of what prompted me to mention the idea. There are also a lot of them in Alexandria where the sign says "No Turn on Red When Pedestrians Are Present." That might be one way to address your issue as to holidays. (One problem I have with the concept of "holidays" as a delineator is that the workforce presence can vary greatly depending on which holiday it is, as there are some holidays that aren't observed by large segments of the private sector.)

Instead of setting a fixed time range and specific days of the week, why not just use a sign that lights up when needed?  https://goo.gl/maps/7Cnk57zcNiVtobuW8

(In this specific example, I think the RTOR prohibition applies when southbound traffic has its protected left turn phase, so the permitted U-turn occurs without conflict.  Whether it also applies during a pedestrian phase, I don't know, but it's possible.)

For every million cars turning right on red, you have significantly less than one crash. (I don't know the exact numbers.)

Quote from: 1 on September 13, 2020, 10:49:04 AM
For every million cars turning right on red, you have significantly less than one crash. (I don't know the exact numbers.)

Yet someone will take the time to make a chart about it ...

Quote from: 1 on September 13, 2020, 10:49:04 AM
For every million cars turning right on red, you have significantly less than one crash. (I don't know the exact numbers.)

Especially considering that the vast majority of RTOR maneuvers take place at intersections where there are negligible levels of conflicting traffic (little pedestrian use and even fewer U-turns).

Quote from: 1995hoo on September 11, 2020, 02:34:48 PM
I tend to think some places could do with part-time restrictions on turning on red. For example, intersections in downtown business districts that experience high pedestrian volume during the workday but that empty out for the evenings and overnight could have "No Turn on Red 7:00 AM to 7:00 PM Weekdays" as the restriction, except perhaps in specific locations where the volume is higher at different hours, such as near sports arenas or the like.

I have seen NTOR restrictions that are time limited to 7-4 for school days only (near certain schools).  So it kind of gets to the same concept and also would likely cover most of the bigger holidays.

Of course school days restrictions have their own ball of problems as you can't assume that the drivers are aware of the school calendar.  But for the most part, at least near a public school, its a proxy for weekdays and excludes the major holidays and Christmas week.  [Can't assume summer as there are some year round schools.]

Quote from: mrsman on September 14, 2020, 07:45:17 AM

Quote from: 1995hoo on September 11, 2020, 02:34:48 PM
I tend to think some places could do with part-time restrictions on turning on red. For example, intersections in downtown business districts that experience high pedestrian volume during the workday but that empty out for the evenings and overnight could have "No Turn on Red 7:00 AM to 7:00 PM Weekdays" as the restriction, except perhaps in specific locations where the volume is higher at different hours, such as near sports arenas or the like.

I have seen NTOR restrictions that are time limited to 7-4 for school days only (near certain schools).  So it kind of gets to the same concept and also would likely cover most of the bigger holidays.

Of course school days restrictions have their own ball of problems as you can't assume that the drivers are aware of the school calendar.  But for the most part, at least near a public school, its a proxy for weekdays and excludes the major holidays and Christmas week.  [Can't assume summer as there are some year round schools.]

One NTOR during school hours sign near us remained in place for a year or more after the school had closed.

I've actually found that I'm a calmer driver and less prone to getting worked up since the pandemic started. Traffic isn't as intense, which has helped, but I'm also viewing traveling as more of a privilege than a right, which wasn't really the case before this year.

Quote from: webny99 on October 22, 2020, 08:11:10 AM
I've actually found that I'm a calmer driver and less prone to getting worked up since the pandemic started. Traffic isn't as intense, which has helped, but I'm also viewing traveling as more of a privilege than a right, which wasn't really the case before this year.

On this subject, sometimes I have to remember that I know a few women that are not able to drive (or have not been able to in the past) due to having seizures.  It definitely humbles myself very quickly knowing how much I hate to be dependent on others.

Usually, I am calmer when I have expectations for what is coming (even in heavy congestion).  Avoidable situations are what leads to me being angry in life including on the road.

A couple things I find annoying about roads:

- Obstructions in the median and/or on the corner blocking the line of sight at a intersection, especially if it's a 4-way stop
Local example: the intersection of Memorial Boulevard and Medical Park Drive at the area hospital - GSV hasn't updated to match the current situation, but there's a line of trees in the median on the east side of the intersection (along Memorial) and a parking garage on the corner of the intersection that block the line of sight of hospital-exiting Medical Park Drive traffic bound for US 29 or the nearby mall. Please cut some of them down Atrium.
- Disappearing pavement features/lane lines due to lack of maintenance
Kannapolis Parkway has a section that's rather old and hasn't had its lane lines painted in quite a while. There aren't any cats' eyes, street lights, or other reflective pavement features to guide you either. At night the lines are basically nonexistent.

Some more things I find extremely annoying about the idiots who use the roads:

- People who J-walk
Please just use the crossings that have been provided for you, okay?
- People who feel the need to get on my bumper while I am going at the speed limit
Yes, I try to stay around the posted speed limit (and stay to the right) unless I can't for whatever reason, but some people seem to find this rude. Hey, it's their ticket to pay for, not mine.
I've experienced many an occasion where an impatient driver passes me but we both get to the next light while it was still red.
- People who stop at the last minute, especially if they are behind me
At red lights I try to slow to a stop more gradually. Sometimes I can time the light change well and get to the light just after it turned green.
- People who overly honk as their full-time employment
Extra-long honking doesn't make people any more aware that something is happening, it just makes the honker look like an ass.
- People who think they are Dale Earnhardt Jr./Jeff Gordon/[name your favorite NASCAR driver] and drive at 90 or 100 on area highways (which have speed limits ranging between 55-70 MPH)
A couple years ago, while merging onto I-485 off of US 74, I almost got sideswiped (missed by what felt like a few inches) by a pickup highly exceeding the speed limit. The pickup was also driving on the shoulder, which was barely wide enough to fit said pickup.
On a somewhat related note, I'm curious about how many speeding tickets are issued in cities that have televised motor racing events, compared to similarly-sized cities that lack them.

Quote from: Katavia on October 22, 2020, 11:18:55 AM
- People who J-walk

Please just use the crossings that have been provided for you, okay?

Here's another one:  people who think crossing the street anywhere other than a crosswalk constitutes jaywalking.

Generally, except in very specific circumstances, pedestrians are legally permitted to cross the street wherever they please, so long as they yield right-of-way to vehicular traffic when doing so at a location other than a crosswalk (the only exception in the UVC highlighted below).

Quote from: Uniform Vehicle Code, Millennium Edition
Article V – Pedestrians' Rights and Duties

§ 11-503 – Crossing at other than crosswalks

(a) Every pedestrian crossing a roadway at any point other than within a marked crosswalk or within an unmarked crosswalk at an intersection shall yield the right of way to all vehicles upon the roadway.

(b) Any pedestrian crossing a roadway at a point where a pedestrian tunnel or overhead pedestrian crossing has been provided shall yield the right of way to all vehicles upon the roadway.

(c) Between adjacent intersections at which traffic-control signals are in operation pedestrians shall not cross at any place except in a marked crosswalk.

(d) No pedestrian shall cross a roadway intersection diagonally unless authorized by official traffic-control devices; and when authorized to cross diagonally, pedestrians shall cross only in accordance with the official traffic-control devices pertaining to such crossing movements.

Basically, unless there's a stoplight at both intersections nearest to you, then you are permitted to walk across the street wherever the heck you want.  Just make sure and yield to traffic when you do so.

Does part d there mean that I can't cross residential streets diagonally even if they have very few cars?

Quote from: Katavia on October 22, 2020, 11:18:55 AM
....

- People who stop at the last minute, especially if they are behind me
At red lights I try to slow to a stop more gradually. Sometimes I can time the light change well and get to the light just after it turned green.
....

In this situation, I may honk if the person slows down to the point where it's impeding my ability to get into the left-turn lane so as to get to the line and trip the green arrow.

Quote from: 1995hoo on October 22, 2020, 12:24:12 PM

Quote from: Katavia on October 22, 2020, 11:18:55 AM
- People who stop at the last minute, especially if they are behind me
At red lights I try to slow to a stop more gradually. Sometimes I can time the light change well and get to the light just after it turned green.

In this situation, I may honk if the person slows down to the point where it's impeding my ability to get into the left-turn lane so as to get to the line and trip the green arrow.

Sounds like a one-off, uncommon type of problem... except I know exactly what you're talking about because it happens all the time at this location (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2223891,-77.388754,3a,29.2y,71.68h,88.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8CthZlf-as-p-17liIoHtg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1) and along this part of the NY 104 corridor in general.

Meanwhile, I find people who slow down very gradually (outside of snow/ice conditions, where it's actually necessary) to be annoying.  I just want to stop and put the car in neutral so I can take my foot off the clutch, not ride my brakes!

Also, one thing to keep in mind is that some people are more annoyed by driving slowly than they are at being stopped at the light.  Although that does bring me to something I find very annoying (and can't remember if it's been mentioned before in this thread, by myself or anyone else): when I'm stuck behind a slowpoke for a while and they just barely cruise through a light that I end up stuck at, but which I would have easily made had I not been stuck behind the slowpoke all that time.

Quote from: vdeane on October 22, 2020, 12:47:30 PM
Meanwhile, I find people who slow down very gradually (outside of snow/ice conditions, where it's actually necessary) to be annoying.  I just want to stop and put the car in neutral so I can take my foot off the clutch, not ride my brakes!

I'm one of those people who slows down very gradually, because I figure it's both more fuel efficient and saves wear on my brakes to just let off the gas and coast when I see that a signal ahead is red. I guess this explains why my brakes last longer than average and I average better fuel economy than my car is supposed to...

Quote from: vdeane on October 22, 2020, 12:47:30 PM
Meanwhile, I find people who slow down very gradually (outside of snow/ice conditions, where it's actually necessary) to be annoying.  I just want to stop and put the car in neutral so I can take my foot off the clutch, not ride my brakes!

I do this more often now in my Insight due to the hybrid nature of the vehicle and the regen braking.  That said, I try not to do it when people are behind me for your very reason.  Or, I may start slowing further back slowing from, say, 40 to 30 mph, but as I get closer I'll just apply the brakes as normal.

Quote from: vdeane on October 22, 2020, 12:47:30 PM
Also, one thing to keep in mind is that some people are more annoyed by driving slowly than they are at being stopped at the light.  Although that does bring me to something I find very annoying (and can't remember if it's been mentioned before in this thread, by myself or anyone else): when I'm stuck behind a slowpoke for a while and they just barely cruise through a light that I end up stuck at, but which I would have easily made had I not been stuck behind the slowpoke all that time.

I imagine they get a certain amount of glee from doing this. 

Even more annoying for me - the same slowpokes that are going at or below the speed limit "because it's the law", then roll thru a stop sign or making a right turn on red, probably thinking they did stop when they never truly did.

QuotePeople who think they are Dale Earnhardt Jr./Jeff Gordon/[name your favorite NASCAR driver] and drive at 90 or 100 on area highways (which have speed limits ranging between 55-70 MPH)

Kyle Busch (my favorite driver) has done that away from the racetrack. (https://www.sbnation.com/nascar/2011/5/24/2188265/kyle-busch-reckless-driving-speeding-ticket-128-mph-nascar-driver-joe-gibbs-racing-2011)

Missoula seems to be a hotbed for drivers not paying much mind to cyclists and cyclists not paying much mind to drivers. The two major roadways that annoy me a lot are Broadway and Reserve, sometimes Russell Street, but not often. That stretch of Reserve at the folded fork intersection with Broadway all the way down to where Brooks Street/US 93-12 meet up tend to be a bitch during moderate traffic hours (7-9 AM, 12-2 PM and between 5 to 8 PM). The University area gets a bit tricky when the students are out and about and especially on game days. Note Madison Street over the bridge to 5th Street outbound, 6th Street inbound, Arthur Street, Eddy Street, and Beckwith Street. Those spots can somewhat irk me when I go through there. Then you have the Orange and Van Buren Street roundabouts at I-90. Ooooh. Can't say I hate it, but I get leery when I go through both of them. I mention these not so much as to say I hate driving these roads, but more so to say that I can get easily annoyed at times when I feel someone is a little too close for my comfort level.

I have seen at times drivers come out of the side roads in Missoula right as I am crossing the intersection. They will start to come out of the posted stop zone they had just passed and begin to roll. Every time I see that, I think "You really want your nose to get clipped off, right?"

US 93 from Missoula to the Bitterroot Valley can get a little nerve racking for first-timers going through Montana from the "boot" section of Idaho. The scarier section of US 93/MT 200 is The Wye up to Polson city limits before US 93 meets with MT 35.

When I feel someone is dogging me, I try and find a spot to pull over and let them by. It's always hit or miss. Often I'll be having to drive a certain distance with the hot-dogging runt behind my tail waiting for it to turn off somewhere or me finally finding that pullout area to let them by.

Quote from: 1 on October 22, 2020, 12:17:06 PM
Does part d there mean that I can't cross residential streets diagonally even if they have very few cars?

Yes it does.  Funny thing is, I've taught my children to cross diagonally in our residential neighborhood, because they can check all four directions and then only have to cross once.  Oh no, I'm teaching them to be lawbreakers.

Quote from: deathtopumpkins on October 22, 2020, 12:59:33 PM
I'm one of those people who slows down very gradually, because I figure it's both more fuel efficient and saves wear on my brakes to just let off the gas and coast when I see that a signal ahead is red. I guess this explains why my brakes last longer than average and I average better fuel economy than my car is supposed to...

I don't think coasting vs braking makes any difference as to fuel economy.  Both save fuel over keeping your foot on the gas till the last minute–unless you then have to accelerate more than you would have because the light turns green–but coasting and braking both have your foot off the gas.  However, I do think braking gradually saves wear and tear on your brakes vs braking precipitously.  Even though it requires the same amount of force to come to a stop, and therefore theoretically the same brake pad wear, the peak heat reached by those pads will be higher if you brake precipitously.  Higher peak heat leads to shorter brake life, I think.

Quote from: deathtopumpkins on October 22, 2020, 12:59:33 PM

Quote from: vdeane on October 22, 2020, 12:47:30 PM
Meanwhile, I find people who slow down very gradually (outside of snow/ice conditions, where it's actually necessary) to be annoying.  I just want to stop and put the car in neutral so I can take my foot off the clutch, not ride my brakes!

I'm one of those people who slows down very gradually, because I figure it's both more fuel efficient and saves wear on my brakes to just let off the gas and coast when I see that a signal ahead is red. I guess this explains why my brakes last longer than average and I average better fuel economy than my car is supposed to...

It's one thing if you're just coasting to avoid brake use.  It's another if you're just spending a really long time lightly holding the brakes and extending the whole thing out (and thereby forcing everyone behind you to do the same or stop and then creep forward).

Quote from: vdeane on October 22, 2020, 09:06:54 PM
It's one thing if you're just coasting to avoid brake use.  It's another if you're just spending a really long time lightly holding the brakes and extending the whole thing out (and thereby forcing everyone behind you to do the same or stop and then creep forward).

Yeah, coasting vs. braking where I was thinking of heading with this conversation, too. I'll definitely coast if I think doing so will avoid future braking.

People who don't signal, people who don't use their lights at certain times of the day and in certain conditions, and people who are impatient at red lights.

Quote from: 74/171FAN on October 22, 2020, 03:17:14 PM

QuotePeople who think they are Dale Earnhardt Jr./Jeff Gordon/[name your favorite NASCAR driver] and drive at 90 or 100 on area highways (which have speed limits ranging between 55-70 MPH)

Kyle Busch (my favorite driver) has done that away from the racetrack. (https://www.sbnation.com/nascar/2011/5/24/2188265/kyle-busch-reckless-driving-speeding-ticket-128-mph-nascar-driver-joe-gibbs-racing-2011)

My favorite NASCAR driver is Joey Logano

Quote from: epzik8 on October 23, 2020, 06:18:08 AM
People who don't signal, people who don't use their lights at certain times of the day and in certain conditions, and people who are impatient at red lights.

I was out for a walk at around 6:30 the other day, walking on a sidewalk more or less due west into the setting sun. I almost tried to take a picture of the invisible cars approaching–people who refuse to use their headlights and are thus rendered more or less invisible at a distance due to the setting sun directly behind them.

I'll keep this simple....

Roads:
1) Lack of proper signage and/or passing zones makes for an annoying road.
2) Freeways that have only 4 lanes (2 each dir) in states that have a lower speed limit for semis than for cars.  You always end up with truckers causing a multi-mile moving roadblock.  This sucks.  And Michigan, I'm looking straight at you and I-94. 

Drivers:
1) Numbskulls who don't use their turn signals.  Easiest thing in the world to do, yet many don't show the slightest respect for others around them by using them.
2) You're on a two lane uncontrolled access road. You're moving along at 45, 50, 55, maybe even 60 mph and see a car on a side road, sitting at a stop sign.  And this idiot watches you approach and then decides to peel rubber like a drag racer to jump in front of you (even though nobody is behind you).  And then he goes 35. Asshole.  It's enough to make you wish your vehicle was armed with torpedoes...
3) Left lane hogs!  The left lane is for passing, if you're not passing move over! You're not the speed police and I don't give a shit if you're going 65 and decide to force the rest of us to. GTF out of the way!  This last one pisses me off the most, btw.

What all three here have in common is a total lack of consideration for others. 

Quote from: StogieGuy7 on October 23, 2020, 12:14:44 PM

2) You're on a two lane uncontrolled access road. You're moving along at 45, 50, 55, maybe even 60 mph and see a car on a side road, sitting at a stop sign.  And this idiot watches you approach and then decides to peel rubber like a drag racer to jump in front of you (even though nobody is behind you).  And then he goes 35. Asshole.  It's enough to make you wish your vehicle was armed with torpedoes...

I get this All.  The.  Time.  I am convinced there is a team of operatives out there monitoring me and planning all these moves.  They're also experts at just squeezing through the next yellow light and forcing me to stop at the red.  On the rare occasion I'm actually on a lonely road and someone on a side road comes up to the intersection as I'm passing through, I always think it's someone who blew his assignment and is going to be raked over the coals by the Big Boss.

Quote from: epzik8 on October 23, 2020, 06:18:08 AM
People who don't signal ...

A related one:

People who engage their turn signal 0.005 seconds before turning or changing lanes.  What's even point by then?  Especially if you've already been braking to slow down for a turn, I've already figured out by then what you're doing.  Signals are to tell us in advance what you're going to do!  Not what you're already doing.

Today, on my way to work, a driver had accelerated on the on-ramp to about 5-7 mph over the speed limit–just barely slower than the speed I was going.  I had a driver approaching from behind on my left, and the accel/decel lane is 0.6 miles long (https://goo.gl/maps/zDL8k1XDfR1ZBsPSA).  Just as I was about to pass the entering driver up, they suddenly moved over into my lane.  (I'm in a loaner car from the mechanic, and the horn doesn't work, by the way.)  So I stepped on the brakes, let the car on my left pass me, then got over into the second lane.  Then the car changed back into the accel/decel lane and took the next exit.  WTF??

tl;dr – People who change out of the right lane for no bloody reason, impeding the flow of traffic, then exit the highway shortly thereafter.

I had an incident a couple months ago where I was in the right lane on TX-288 heading south and was being tailgated by a lifted truck for a couple miles. I pulled into the left lane to let someone else merge in from an entrance ramp, but after I switched lanes, the lifted truck behind me floored it, almost cutting off the guy trying to merge in, and blowing black smoke out his tailpipe straight at me.

I don't know if he was trying to bully me for gOiNG tOO sLoW (i.e. going the speed limit), or if he was impatient. Whatever the case, the passing lane beside me was wide open the entire time and he could've easily passed me if he wanted to. I could only laugh at him.

tl;dr: People who bully you into driving faster or over the limit by tailgating you for long periods of time and not passing you, even when the opportunity to pass is present, and endangering others by doing so.

Quote from: CoreySamson on October 23, 2020, 05:07:07 PM
I had an incident a couple months ago where I was in the right lane on TX-288 heading south and was being tailgated by a lifted truck for a couple miles. I pulled into the left lane to let someone else merge in from an entrance ramp, but after I switched lanes, the lifted truck behind me floored it, almost cutting off the guy trying to merge in, and blowing black smoke out his tailpipe straight at me.

I don't know if he was trying to bully me for gOiNG tOO sLoW (i.e. going the speed limit), or if he was impatient. Whatever the case, the passing lane beside me was wide open the entire time and he could've easily passed me if he wanted to. I could only laugh at him.

tl;dr: People who bully you into driving faster or over the limit by tailgating you for long periods of time and not passing you, even when the opportunity to pass is present, and endangering others by doing so.

I absolutely hate that. Just a little while ago today even I was traveling eastbound on Mount Morris Road a little north west of Flint and was being tailgated by a Chevy Silverado and only maybe about three car links ahead of me was a Chevy Impala I'm thinking to myself what the hell do you want me to do crash into the back of the car in front of me or something? It's like what the hell you know.

Quote from: 74/171FAN on October 22, 2020, 03:17:14 PM

QuotePeople who think they are Dale Earnhardt Jr./Jeff Gordon/[name your favorite NASCAR driver] and drive at 90 or 100 on area highways (which have speed limits ranging between 55-70 MPH)

Kyle Busch (my favorite driver) has done that away from the racetrack. (https://www.sbnation.com/nascar/2011/5/24/2188265/kyle-busch-reckless-driving-speeding-ticket-128-mph-nascar-driver-joe-gibbs-racing-2011)

Haven't watched NASCAR as regularly as I used to, but glad to know I'm not weird for liking a driver who is almost never mentioned outside when he wins (in my experience).

As for the ticket, I can totally understand why that happened. If you drive for a living, and routinely go 100+, I can see how you could find yourself going that fast*, though in this case, it seems as though he knew he was going faster than he should have.

*Please don't go that fast. I'm all for "reasonable and prudent"  speeds, but 120+ isn't reasonable OR prudent.

Quote from: vdeane on October 22, 2020, 12:47:30 PM
Meanwhile, I find people who slow down very gradually (outside of snow/ice conditions, where it's actually necessary) to be annoying.  I just want to stop and put the car in neutral so I can take my foot off the clutch, not ride my brakes!

Also, one thing to keep in mind is that some people are more annoyed by driving slowly than they are at being stopped at the light.  Although that does bring me to something I find very annoying (and can't remember if it's been mentioned before in this thread, by myself or anyone else): when I'm stuck behind a slowpoke for a while and they just barely cruise through a light that I end up stuck at, but which I would have easily made had I not been stuck behind the slowpoke all that time.

I'm totally with you on everything here. It makes me mad when people can't function properly. I'm usually like, "if you don't feel like driving the way you should be driving then pull over and just quit driving."

Another one that pisses me off to no end is when you're on a four lane freeway with two lanes in each direction two cars side by side going the exact same speed and it's either the speed limit or very close to it. You are thinking I know I can get away with going over the speed limit I just can't stand people being in my way.

Quote from: CoreySamson on October 23, 2020, 05:07:07 PM
tl;dr: People who bully you into driving faster or over the limit by tailgating you for long periods of time and not passing you, even when the opportunity to pass is present, and endangering others by doing so.

I absolutely hate that. Just a little while ago today even I was traveling eastbound on Mount Morris Road a little north west of Flint and was being tailgated by a Chevy Silverado and only maybe about three car links ahead of me was a Chevy Impala I'm thinking to myself what the hell do you want me to do crash into the back of the car in front of me or something? It's like what the hell you know.
[/quote]

you can only go as fast as the car in front of you. this happens all the time where i live, if i'm not in the city its all 2-lane roads with passing zones. if i'm already going the speed limit (or a little over as is often the case) then i have no sympathy for the coal-roller behind me. pass me when you can, otherwise, enjoy looking at the back of my head.

if i know i'm going slow (looking for something etc.) then i will use a pullout to let people by, but if i'm around the posted speed, too bad.

Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on October 25, 2020, 09:22:06 AM
you can only go as fast as the car in front of you. this happens all the time where i live, if i'm not in the city its all 2-lane roads with passing zones. if i'm already going the speed limit (or a little over as is often the case) then i have no sympathy for the coal-roller behind me. pass me when you can, otherwise, enjoy looking at the back of my head.

if i know i'm going slow (looking for something etc.) then i will use a pullout to let people by, but if i'm around the posted speed, too bad.

That...is not how pullouts work. Someone wants to go faster than you, you use the pullout. Even if you're going above the speed limit. Not doing that makes you a dick.

Quote from: cl94 on October 25, 2020, 04:42:17 PM

Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on October 25, 2020, 09:22:06 AM
you can only go as fast as the car in front of you. this happens all the time where i live, if i'm not in the city its all 2-lane roads with passing zones. if i'm already going the speed limit (or a little over as is often the case) then i have no sympathy for the coal-roller behind me. pass me when you can, otherwise, enjoy looking at the back of my head.

if i know i'm going slow (looking for something etc.) then i will use a pullout to let people by, but if i'm around the posted speed, too bad.

That...is not how pullouts work. Someone wants to go faster than you, you use the pullout. Even of you're going above the speed limit. Not doing that makes you a dick.

Agreed. And it's actually illegal to not use the pullouts in a lot of western states if you have a certain number of cars lined up behind you.

If I'm on some winding road with not a lot of opportunities to pass, and there's someone on my ass, I will absolutely let him through when I get a chance. It makes us both happier.

edit: fixed quote string

This is why I don't get why some DOTs, like Oklahoma, stripe the pullout as just a lane added to the right edge of the roadway. In other states, like Michigan, the yellow line forces you to the right as the pavement widens, and then the new lane is added to the left. Helps enforce KRETP way better.

Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on October 25, 2020, 09:22:06 AM

Quote from: CoreySamson on October 23, 2020, 05:07:07 PM
tl;dr: People who bully you into driving faster or over the limit by tailgating you for long periods of time and not passing you, even when the opportunity to pass is present, and endangering others by doing so.

I absolutely hate that. Just a little while ago today even I was traveling eastbound on Mount Morris Road a little north west of Flint and was being tailgated by a Chevy Silverado and only maybe about three car links ahead of me was a Chevy Impala I'm thinking to myself what the hell do you want me to do crash into the back of the car in front of me or something? It's like what the hell you know.

you can only go as fast as the car in front of you. this happens all the time where i live, if i'm not in the city its all 2-lane roads with passing zones. if i'm already going the speed limit (or a little over as is often the case) then i have no sympathy for the coal-roller behind me. pass me when you can, otherwise, enjoy looking at the back of my head.

if i know i'm going slow (looking for something etc.) then i will use a pullout to let people by, but if i'm around the posted speed, too bad.
[/quote]

Depends on the road for me - if there are actually passing opportunities on a generally straight road, then yes, fully agreed. If it's a mountain road where there are curves/straightaways, then I'm probably not going exactly the posted speed limit around the curves and there might be somebody behind me who is comfortable going a bit faster around the corners. In this case I will always use the first available pullout to let that person by. It takes like two seconds and makes for a more pleasant driving experience for everybody (I'm not enraged that there is somebody tailgating me, the person tailgating me gets to drive the speed they want to drive).

Because of that variation in comfortable speed around corners, failure to use designated pullouts (usually pullouts only exist on twisty mountain roads) is a violation of state law in several western states (with varying numbers of vehicles behind you), even if you're "around the posted speed" - not sure about Colorado. But yes - the burden would be on the first car in line to do this, and I would argue the burden falls on the second car in line to kind of help push the first car to use the pullout if they demonstrate a lack of awareness of this law, either by light flashing or tailgating or whatever the case may be.

Quote from: US 89 on October 25, 2020, 04:43:11 PM

Quote from: cl94 on October 25, 2020, 04:42:17 PM

Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on October 25, 2020, 09:22:06 AM

Quote from: CoreySamson on October 23, 2020, 05:07:07 PM
tl;dr: People who bully you into driving faster or over the limit by tailgating you for long periods of time and not passing you, even when the opportunity to pass is present, and endangering others by doing so.

I absolutely hate that. Just a little while ago today even I was traveling eastbound on Mount Morris Road a little north west of Flint and was being tailgated by a Chevy Silverado and only maybe about three car links ahead of me was a Chevy Impala I'm thinking to myself what the hell do you want me to do crash into the back of the car in front of me or something? It's like what the hell you know.

you can only go as fast as the car in front of you. this happens all the time where i live, if i'm not in the city its all 2-lane roads with passing zones. if i'm already going the speed limit (or a little over as is often the case) then i have no sympathy for the coal-roller behind me. pass me when you can, otherwise, enjoy looking at the back of my head.

if i know i'm going slow (looking for something etc.) then i will use a pullout to let people by, but if i'm around the posted speed, too bad.

That...is not how pullouts work. Someone wants to go faster than you, you use the pullout. Even of you're going above the speed limit. Not doing that makes you a dick.

Agreed. And it's actually illegal to not use the pullouts in a lot of western states if you have a certain number of cars lined up behind you.

If I'm on some winding road with not a lot of opportunities to pass, and there's someone on my ass, I will absolutely let him through when I get a chance. It makes us both happier.
[/quote]

i guess i'm a dick then... pullouts on my road are just .. little patches of dirt where people park sometimes.
and yall are right.. i think in colorado its 4 cars
point taken.

How about those who creep while turning right?

I find them annoying cause you either have to weave around them or brake to a stop. Sea World employees are the worst. They stop before turning off Central Florida Parkway into their employee entrance. It would be so irritating as I used to pass there on the way to my work.

Quote from: Flint1979 on October 24, 2020, 08:52:10 PM
I'm usually like, "if you don't feel like driving the way you should be driving then pull over and just quit driving."

And I'm usually like, "If you can't tolerate people who drive differently than you would prefer, then pull over and just quit driving."

Some people go slower, some go faster, some accelerate and/or brake gradually, some accelerate and/or brake precipitously, and these facts will never change.

not really an annoyance.. but i find this interesting...

i'm the sort that when i see a light turning (or already) red ahead, i will start coasting at that point, if i'm in a stickshift, in neutral, until i see the traffic moving ahead of me.. then select an appopriate gear, and continue

i find i make the same time as the guy that zooms up, stands on the brakes, and zooms up to the next one.. i see trucks doing the coast thing, and granted its a little harder to get a truck moving vs. my little honda, but still...

Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on October 28, 2020, 08:37:15 AM
not really an annoyance.. but i find this interesting...

i'm the sort that when i see a light turning (or already) red ahead, i will start coasting at that point, if i'm in a stickshift, in neutral, until i see the traffic moving ahead of me.. then select an appopriate gear, and continue

i find i make the same time as the guy that zooms up, stands on the brakes, and zooms up to the next one.. i see trucks doing the coast thing, and granted its a little harder to get a truck moving vs. my little honda, but still...

I would say - it depends. If traffic is light - there is little problem in general.  If you're coasting on a level road - there is probably little slowdown anyway.
If there is a dedicated turn lane, and you're blocking access to that lane by staying back - you're a problem for those turning. 
If there is a lot of traffic and you make light backup extend further down the road - you may be a problem as those further back may incur time penalty, to the point that light will sense a gap too big and turn red for cars further down the road.

Quote from: kalvado on October 28, 2020, 09:35:32 AM

Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on October 28, 2020, 08:37:15 AM
not really an annoyance.. but i find this interesting...

i'm the sort that when i see a light turning (or already) red ahead, i will start coasting at that point, if i'm in a stickshift, in neutral, until i see the traffic moving ahead of me.. then select an appopriate gear, and continue

i find i make the same time as the guy that zooms up, stands on the brakes, and zooms up to the next one.. i see trucks doing the coast thing, and granted its a little harder to get a truck moving vs. my little honda, but still...

I would say - it depends. If traffic is light - there is little problem in general.  If you're coasting on a level road - there is probably little slowdown anyway.
If there is a dedicated turn lane, and you're blocking access to that lane by staying back - you're a problem for those turning. 
If there is a lot of traffic and you make light backup extend further down the road - you may be a problem as those further back may incur time penalty, to the point that light will sense a gap too big and turn red for cars further down the road.

i really try not to be a dick about it... and i get what you're saying..and in heavy traffic in the city, yeah i get it.. a lot of my driving is on more rural roads with the occasional light

When someone in your vehicle is extremely picky about parking spaces. In any lot, there's exactly one best space, and they'll want to find it no matter how long it takes. Every other space is too far, too small, too busy, too shady (69.9 deg F and below), not enough shade (70.0 deg F and above), bad feng shui, was on top of a cemetery where they only moved the headstones, etc.

In a busy lot, they'll want to vulch (a verb meaning follow someone walking to their spot, like a "vulcher")

Quote from: kurumi on October 28, 2020, 01:01:35 PM
When someone in your vehicle is extremely picky about parking spaces. In any lot, there's exactly one best space, and they'll want to find it no matter how long it takes. Every other space is too far, too small, too busy, too shady (69.9 deg F and below), not enough shade (70.0 deg F and above), bad feng shui, was on top of a cemetery where they only moved the headstones, etc.

In a busy lot, they'll want to vulch (a verb meaning follow someone walking to their spot, like a "vulcher")

"Just drop me off here, and I'll walk to the door.  Thanks."

Quote from: kphoger on October 28, 2020, 02:00:27 PM

Quote from: kurumi on October 28, 2020, 01:01:35 PM
When someone in your vehicle is extremely picky about parking spaces. In any lot, there's exactly one best space, and they'll want to find it no matter how long it takes. Every other space is too far, too small, too busy, too shady (69.9 deg F and below), not enough shade (70.0 deg F and above), bad feng shui, was on top of a cemetery where they only moved the headstones, etc.

In a busy lot, they'll want to vulch (a verb meaning follow someone walking to their spot, like a "vulcher")

"Just drop me off here, and I'll walk to the door.  Thanks."

But what if you're a driver?

Quote from: kalvado on October 28, 2020, 02:05:48 PM

Quote from: kphoger on October 28, 2020, 02:00:27 PM

Quote from: kurumi on October 28, 2020, 01:01:35 PM
When someone in your vehicle is extremely picky about parking spaces. In any lot, there's exactly one best space, and they'll want to find it no matter how long it takes. Every other space is too far, too small, too busy, too shady (69.9 deg F and below), not enough shade (70.0 deg F and above), bad feng shui, was on top of a cemetery where they only moved the headstones, etc.

In a busy lot, they'll want to vulch (a verb meaning follow someone walking to their spot, like a "vulcher")

"Just drop me off here, and I'll walk to the door.  Thanks."

But what if you're a driver?

Then why are you listening to where the passengers want you to park?  Ain't nobody got time for that.

Quote from: kphoger on October 28, 2020, 02:11:27 PM

Quote from: kalvado on October 28, 2020, 02:05:48 PM

Quote from: kphoger on October 28, 2020, 02:00:27 PM

Quote from: kurumi on October 28, 2020, 01:01:35 PM
When someone in your vehicle is extremely picky about parking spaces. In any lot, there's exactly one best space, and they'll want to find it no matter how long it takes. Every other space is too far, too small, too busy, too shady (69.9 deg F and below), not enough shade (70.0 deg F and above), bad feng shui, was on top of a cemetery where they only moved the headstones, etc.

In a busy lot, they'll want to vulch (a verb meaning follow someone walking to their spot, like a "vulcher")

"Just drop me off here, and I'll walk to the door.  Thanks."

But what if you're a driver?

Then why are you listening to where the passengers want you to park?  Ain't nobody got time for that.

Were you ever married?

Quote from: kalvado on October 28, 2020, 02:22:48 PM

Quote from: kphoger on October 28, 2020, 02:11:27 PM

Quote from: kalvado on October 28, 2020, 02:05:48 PM

Quote from: kphoger on October 28, 2020, 02:00:27 PM

Quote from: kurumi on October 28, 2020, 01:01:35 PM
When someone in your vehicle is extremely picky about parking spaces. In any lot, there's exactly one best space, and they'll want to find it no matter how long it takes. Every other space is too far, too small, too busy, too shady (69.9 deg F and below), not enough shade (70.0 deg F and above), bad feng shui, was on top of a cemetery where they only moved the headstones, etc.

In a busy lot, they'll want to vulch (a verb meaning follow someone walking to their spot, like a "vulcher")

"Just drop me off here, and I'll walk to the door.  Thanks."

But what if you're a driver?

Then why are you listening to where the passengers want you to park?  Ain't nobody got time for that.

Were you ever married?

"Shush, baby.  Shush."

Quote from: kalvado on October 28, 2020, 02:22:48 PM
Were you ever married?

I've been happily married for 14½ years and going strong.  [emoji127]  I do almost all the driving (except on long trips, during which we take turns to avoid fatigue).  I park wherever I choose.  When she's driving, she parks wherever she chooses.  If my wife thinks it was a strange spot for me to pick, I guess she might ask me why I chose it, but she certainly wouldn't try to get me to park somewhere else instead.

About the closest thing would be if there isn't enough room between the other vehicles for her to open the door and get out.  In that case, she just has me pull forward for her, then I back in again after she's shut the door.

Well, I encountered a wrong-way driver on Front Street in Missoula today! Front Street is an eastbound one-way street, and this imbecile in a Durango had my blue deuce Malibu Maxx in its crosshairs for literally nothing to do other than to try and make me shit my pants, which the Durango failed spectacularly. But, on the happier flip side, after I gave the idiot Durango the flashing lights and the horn, disaster was averted. I can't help but wonder how Missoulian drivers, well, every kind of driver in Missoula for that matter, can be ever so STUPID!

I could have sworn there was a thread recently about people who stop at the end of right-turn slip lanes when the lane continues and there's no reason to stop.  But now I can't find it.  Did it get deleted?  Anyway, that annoys the **** out of me, too.

Oh, it was this thread: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=27986.msg2547664

I was reading that and thinking, shouldn't that go here?

Quote from: Billy F 1988 on November 14, 2020, 05:54:20 PM
Well, I encountered a wrong-way driver on Front Street in Missoula today! Front Street is an eastbound one-way street, and this imbecile in a Durango had my blue deuce Malibu Maxx in its crosshairs for literally nothing to do other than to try and make me shit my pants, which the Durango failed spectacularly. But, on the happier flip side, after I gave the idiot Durango the flashing lights and the horn, disaster was averted. I can't help but wonder how Missoulian drivers, well, every kind of driver in Missoula for that matter, can be ever so STUPID!

You sure they were locals?

Quote from: stridentweasel on November 15, 2020, 03:38:17 PM
I could have sworn there was a thread recently about people who stop at the end of right-turn slip lanes when the lane continues and there's no reason to stop.  But now I can't find it.  Did it get deleted?  Anyway, that annoys the **** out of me, too.

Oh, it was this thread: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=27986.msg2547664

I was reading that and thinking, shouldn't that go here?

But that raises the question of who is the annoying idiot, if you read the rest of that thread.

Quote from: kphoger on November 20, 2020, 01:48:29 PM

Quote from: Billy F 1988 on November 14, 2020, 05:54:20 PM
Well, I encountered a wrong-way driver on Front Street in Missoula today! Front Street is an eastbound one-way street, and this imbecile in a Durango had my blue deuce Malibu Maxx in its crosshairs for literally nothing to do other than to try and make me shit my pants, which the Durango failed spectacularly. But, on the happier flip side, after I gave the idiot Durango the flashing lights and the horn, disaster was averted. I can't help but wonder how Missoulian drivers, well, every kind of driver in Missoula for that matter, can be ever so STUPID!

You sure they were locals?

  :-D :-D :-D The hell if I know.

Quote from: Billy F 1988 on November 20, 2020, 03:24:13 PM

Quote from: kphoger on November 20, 2020, 01:48:29 PM

Quote from: Billy F 1988 on November 14, 2020, 05:54:20 PM
Well, I encountered a wrong-way driver on Front Street in Missoula today! Front Street is an eastbound one-way street, and this imbecile in a Durango had my blue deuce Malibu Maxx in its crosshairs for literally nothing to do other than to try and make me shit my pants, which the Durango failed spectacularly. But, on the happier flip side, after I gave the idiot Durango the flashing lights and the horn, disaster was averted. I can't help but wonder how Missoulian drivers, well, every kind of driver in Missoula for that matter, can be ever so STUPID!

You sure they were locals?

  :-D :-D :-D The hell if I know.

Well, if I'm from out of town–coming in on a visit, say, from a rural town of 300 people–and I'm trying to get some place, reading directions, looking all around... and I end up going the wrong way down a one-way street... that doesn't make me "ever so STUPID".

FWIW, I've seen several wrong-way drivers here in Wichita.  Not stupid, just turned around, I'm sure.

I can understand a wrong-way driver on a one-way city street. The interstate, though, is a completely different matter.

Quote from: kphoger on November 20, 2020, 03:35:35 PM

Quote from: Billy F 1988 on November 20, 2020, 03:24:13 PM

Quote from: kphoger on November 20, 2020, 01:48:29 PM

Quote from: Billy F 1988 on November 14, 2020, 05:54:20 PM
Well, I encountered a wrong-way driver on Front Street in Missoula today! Front Street is an eastbound one-way street, and this imbecile in a Durango had my blue deuce Malibu Maxx in its crosshairs for literally nothing to do other than to try and make me shit my pants, which the Durango failed spectacularly. But, on the happier flip side, after I gave the idiot Durango the flashing lights and the horn, disaster was averted. I can't help but wonder how Missoulian drivers, well, every kind of driver in Missoula for that matter, can be ever so STUPID!

You sure they were locals?

  :-D :-D :-D The hell if I know.

Well, if I'm from out of town–coming in on a visit, say, from a rural town of 300 people–and I'm trying to get some place, reading directions, looking all around... and I end up going the wrong way down a one-way street... that doesn't make me "ever so STUPID".

FWIW, I've seen several wrong-way drivers here in Wichita.  Not stupid, just turned around, I'm sure.

Quote from: webny99 on November 20, 2020, 04:09:39 PM
I can understand a wrong-way driver on a one-way city street. The interstate, though, is a completely different matter.

Yep.  Of which Front Street in Missoula is the former.

I don't know if it has been mentioned upthread, but it is somewhat common at least here in eastern Wisconsin, it is unwarranted, unnecessary politeness, such as when someone else clearly has priority at, let's say, a four-way STOP intersection and yet tries to wave others through or in, etc.  This can really slow things down and muck up the traffic flow.

"Don't you remember your Drivers' Ed classes???"

:pan:

Mike

but what about the childr.........

Quote from: kphoger on November 20, 2020, 03:35:35 PM

Quote from: Billy F 1988 on November 20, 2020, 03:24:13 PM

Quote from: kphoger on November 20, 2020, 01:48:29 PM

Quote from: Billy F 1988 on November 14, 2020, 05:54:20 PM
Well, I encountered a wrong-way driver on Front Street in Missoula today! Front Street is an eastbound one-way street, and this imbecile in a Durango had my blue deuce Malibu Maxx in its crosshairs for literally nothing to do other than to try and make me shit my pants, which the Durango failed spectacularly. But, on the happier flip side, after I gave the idiot Durango the flashing lights and the horn, disaster was averted. I can't help but wonder how Missoulian drivers, well, every kind of driver in Missoula for that matter, can be ever so STUPID!

You sure they were locals?

  :-D :-D :-D The hell if I know.

Well, if I'm from out of town–coming in on a visit, say, from a rural town of 300 people–and I'm trying to get some place, reading directions, looking all around... and I end up going the wrong way down a one-way street... that doesn't make me "ever so STUPID".

FWIW, I've seen several wrong-way drivers here in Wichita.  Not stupid, just turned around, I'm sure.

I'm not implying that all out-of-town drivers are stupid, but some tend to get on my nerves. And that's mainly because of my driving anxiety that tends to drive such a thought out. I never used to have driving anxiety over ten years ago. I'll take the bump admitting I was too crass with saying "I can't help but wonder how Missoulian drivers, well, every kind of driver in Missoula for that matter, can be ever so STUPID!"