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National Boards => General Highway Talk => Topic started by: roadman65 on August 05, 2019, 12:54:07 PM

Title: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: roadman65 on August 05, 2019, 12:54:07 PM
https://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/48462562916/in/dateposted-public/

Any others that are old school abbreviations like Ark instead of AR, or Mass instead of MA?
Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: oscar on August 05, 2019, 01:02:45 PM
Ohio is sometimes abbreviated as "O.", though I don't have photos on hand.
Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: Brandon on August 05, 2019, 01:11:53 PM
Quote from: oscar on August 05, 2019, 01:02:45 PM
Ohio is sometimes abbreviated as "O.", though I don't have photos on hand.

Such as "Columbus O." as used to be found in Indianapolis on the bgss.
Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: hbelkins on August 05, 2019, 01:16:25 PM
Lots of "Penna" Turnpike signs still around.
Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: chays on August 05, 2019, 01:19:24 PM
This reminds me of one of my favorite comedy bits.  6+ minutes of comedy about state abbreviations.

Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: 1995hoo on August 05, 2019, 01:38:45 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on August 05, 2019, 01:16:25 PM
Lots of "Penna" Turnpike signs still around.

There used to be an overhead LGS pull-through sign on the former I-95 near Trenton that used "Penna" as the control "city." I have no idea whether the sign is still there, nor whether they would have simply stuck an I-295 shield over the I-95 shield or whether they would have replaced the whole sign.
Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: Big John on August 05, 2019, 01:45:11 PM
Wisconsin boat registration uses WS as the state abbreviation.
Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: GaryV on August 05, 2019, 03:13:59 PM
Quote from: Big John on August 05, 2019, 01:45:11 PM
Wisconsin boat registration uses WS as the state abbreviation.

And Michigan uses MC.

As long as were're not mailing the boats, what does it matter?
Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: bulldog1979 on August 05, 2019, 03:58:41 PM
Wikipedia has a useful list of U.S. state abbreviations (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_abbreviations) that includes the Coast Guard's vessel number prefix abbreviations as well as the various traditional abbreviations.
Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: Brandon on August 05, 2019, 05:39:55 PM
Illinois (IDOT and ISTHA) commonly uses the older "ILL" and "Ill" on signage for state routes.
Examples would be like: "ILL Route 53" and "Ill Route 53".
Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: kphoger on August 05, 2019, 06:10:09 PM
I see KA for Kansas once in a blue moon.
Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on August 05, 2019, 06:22:39 PM
So once in about 11.7 nanohertz according to Mr. Google?

I use "Cali" for California, which is not included in the Wikipedia list linked above.
Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: marleythedog on August 05, 2019, 07:38:50 PM
I know that the approaches to the Fort Steuben Bridge in Steubenville were signed "Weirton, W.Va.," but it's been demolished and I can't find any other examples.

Years ago, I seem to recall some Indiana I-70 signage having a control city of "Columbus, O.H.," which isn't old school so much as just incorrect.
Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: US 89 on August 05, 2019, 07:47:46 PM
(https://live.staticflickr.com/894/42282391772_65b12f45cb_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/27qmiYG)

I-84 near Twin Falls, Idaho. Taken in 2010; looks like this sign disappeared during an interchange reconstruction sometime between 2012 and 2015. The second control city is now Sun Valley.
Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: jp the roadgeek on August 05, 2019, 10:30:39 PM
My mom still writes Conn instead of CT.

CTDOT uses Mass in a couple of cases. 

https://goo.gl/maps/EWPgBAryurH3hVwn7 (https://goo.gl/maps/EWPgBAryurH3hVwn7)

https://goo.gl/maps/n1FM14Ys98ES1TNQ7 (https://goo.gl/maps/n1FM14Ys98ES1TNQ7)

Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: DandyDan on August 06, 2019, 05:31:59 AM
I would be curious to know what Iowa's would be. Did they even have one? Since I moved here, every piece of mail my mother has sent me says Mason City, Iowa.
Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: roadman65 on August 06, 2019, 09:49:17 AM
Quote from: oscar on August 05, 2019, 01:02:45 PM
Ohio is sometimes abbreviated as "O.", though I don't have photos on hand.
in 1989 WV used it on a sign in Huntington for the US 52 bridge across the Ohio River.  Do not know if it was on US 52 or even I-64, but Chesapeake, O was written out.

Yes Indy used to use Columbus, O to distinguish it from Columbus, IN which is south on I-65 from there.  Columbus, OH is east on I-70, though both OH and IN now use Dayton as a control city and newer signs reflect that.  A few were still around in 2008 when I was there last.
Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: tdindy88 on August 06, 2019, 10:22:43 AM
A fairly new sign was installed when they rebuilt the South Split that keeps Columbus OH as the control city for I-70, but this is probably an outlier, still it is a new sign so Columbus will remain the control city at least somewhere.

https://goo.gl/maps/QDsxxAgkZUvSAZYM6

Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: SP Cook on August 06, 2019, 10:37:19 AM
West Virginia has no rhyme or reason to Ohio.  I have seen "OH" "O" "Ohio" and "Oh".  The rest seem to be the standard two capital letters from the USPS, although the usage is inconsistent.  Sometimes Columbus is just Columbus, sometimes it gets an Ohio, but Washington, a small town in Pennsylvania, is fine by itself in Morgantown, even though the capital of the United States is on the opposite interstate.

Before I-77 and Corridor Q were built in Virginia, Virginia had mileage signs not to Princeton but to "W. VA. TURNPIKE" on the predecessor roads.  Some of these are still around.
Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: briantroutman on August 06, 2019, 12:45:39 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on August 05, 2019, 01:16:25 PM
Lots of "Penna" Turnpike signs still around.

Those aren't merely stragglers. "PENNA"  is still standard for the Turnpike's sign-mounted keystone shields (like this recently installed sign (https://goo.gl/maps/hWeAVbAWvD4VEqaW7) at the I-95 interchange) as well as the insignias used on PTC vehicles (https://media.nbcphiladelphia.com/images/1200*679/Pennsylvania+Turnpike+Generic+PA+Turnpike+Generic.JPG), equipment, letterhead, etc.

The PTC does use "PA"  on its numbered non-Interstate markers, however–such as 43 and 66.

Quote from: 1995hoo on August 05, 2019, 01:38:45 PM
There used to be an overhead LGS pull-through sign on the former I-95 near Trenton that used "Penna" as the control "city."

There's also the "New York City - VIA PENNA (https://goo.gl/maps/bnNroVe8nmPAjGUG9)"   signage at the I-80/I-76 "bump"  in Ohio.
Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: hbelkins on August 06, 2019, 04:10:41 PM
Quote from: marleythedog on August 05, 2019, 07:38:50 PM
I know that the approaches to the Fort Steuben Bridge in Steubenville were signed "Weirton, W.Va.," but it's been demolished and I can't find any other examples.

Years ago, I seem to recall some Indiana I-70 signage having a control city of "Columbus, O.H.," which isn't old school so much as just incorrect.

"Huntington. W. Va." is in use on either US 52 or OH 7, or both, just north of the river.
Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: sparker on August 06, 2019, 04:14:30 PM
Back in the '50's and into the early '60's the term "Calif." (more often with than without the period) was used in newspapers and magazines in reference to, of course, California.  Obviously not utilized in the broadcast media, it disappeared about the time that the two-letter state references became S.O.P. for more than simply mail delivery.  I didn't hear the term "Cali" until the late '70's; and not commonly for at least another ten years after that. 
Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: hotdogPi on August 06, 2019, 06:06:07 PM
I'm interested to know if anything exists (doesn't have to be road-related) using the original two-letter abbreviation for Nebraska. When they were created in 1963, Nebraska was NB; it was changed to NE in 1969 to avoid conflicts with New Brunswick.
Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: sandwalk on August 07, 2019, 02:41:14 AM
"Peoria IL." on I-74 in Indiana:

https://goo.gl/maps/GvrrHiaMa6BYVCLF9
Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: Brian556 on August 10, 2019, 12:03:42 AM
In Flagler Beach, FL, The Pier/Restaurant building still says "FLA"
https://www.google.com/maps/@29.4793475,-81.1266067,3a,21.4y,4.33h,91.27t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s2aC4QIWIcIMlU6Q0FlOeSg!2e0!5s20181101T000000!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@29.4793475,-81.1266067,3a,21.4y,4.33h,91.27t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s2aC4QIWIcIMlU6Q0FlOeSg!2e0!5s20181101T000000!7i16384!8i8192)
Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: Big John on August 10, 2019, 12:21:18 AM
"Walk on the Wild Side" lyric says Miami F-L-A
Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on August 10, 2019, 12:27:02 AM
Quote from: Big John on August 10, 2019, 12:21:18 AM
"Walk on the Wild Side" lyric says Miami F-L-A

But that was for the sake of a rhyme, just like the Beach Boys "Californ-Eye-Yay"
Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: jp the roadgeek on August 10, 2019, 01:41:15 PM
What drives me crazy is when a state's DOT uses a 2 letter abbreviation, but the 2nd letter is lower case.  A couple of examples:

On the Baltimore Beltway:

https://goo.gl/maps/PtiSXjN2ucy4p8m98

where is York Ma? (and I don't mean Massachusetts)

On US 6 in Providence:

https://goo.gl/maps/eTQEaJigjZBBKyKLA

Is there a street named Hartford Court?
Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: Brandon on August 10, 2019, 02:25:58 PM
^^ In that same vein, IDOT themselves will use "Il"  instead of Ill or IL on the signage.
Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: 1995hoo on August 10, 2019, 03:12:24 PM
Of course, an exception would be where the "traditional" abbreviation had two letters, such as "Va" or "Md," in which case the lowercase letter is acceptable.

I find it mildly amusing how the abbreviations differ in different contexts. The main legal citation guide (the "Bluebook") uses "Cal." for California, for example.
Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: hbelkins on August 10, 2019, 08:26:44 PM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on August 10, 2019, 01:41:15 PM
What drives me crazy is when a state's DOT uses a 2 letter abbreviation, but the 2nd letter is lower case.

That's routine for West Virginia. Ky, Md, Pa, and Va are commonly seen.
Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on August 10, 2019, 08:34:42 PM
I've seen "Minn."  on some signs in Iowa recently on IA 4 and IA 60.
Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: jay8g on August 11, 2019, 02:47:33 AM
WSDOT often uses "Wash. (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6489637,-122.3224967,3a,23y,6.42h,97.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slqZlXNydwmrcSdJOsyEESg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en)" (sometimes without the period (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6451218,-122.2898865,3a,75y,276.81h,86.79t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sojhCw7tHl7NsJSQMJ6AGfg!2e0!3e11!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en) on newer signs) in the context of the University of Washington.
Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: sbeaver44 on August 11, 2019, 02:41:00 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on August 06, 2019, 04:10:41 PM
Quote from: marleythedog on August 05, 2019, 07:38:50 PM
I know that the approaches to the Fort Steuben Bridge in Steubenville were signed "Weirton, W.Va.," but it's been demolished and I can't find any other examples.

Years ago, I seem to recall some Indiana I-70 signage having a control city of "Columbus, O.H.," which isn't old school so much as just incorrect.

"Huntington. W. Va." is in use on either US 52 or OH 7, or both, just north of the river.
At the beginning of US 48 at I-81, the signs on the ramp list "Wardensville W Va" as the control city
Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: briantroutman on August 11, 2019, 09:14:28 PM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on August 10, 2019, 01:41:15 PM
What drives me crazy is when a state's DOT uses a 2 letter abbreviation, but the 2nd letter is lower case.

Abbreviations like Pa. and Md. are arguably not incorrect. Abbreviations aren't all caps; acronyms are. And the fact that the U.S.P.S. standardized two-letter capitalized state codes in 1963 to make room for a ZIP code on envelopes and to make mail sorting easier shouldn't necessarily have a bearing on how the English-speaking world abbreviates states names in visual communications. Most people merely accept the Postal Service's state codes because mailing labels are likely the most common context in which they either write or read state abbreviations. But a document drafted by the Government Printing Office or the Associated Press would still abbreviate Pennsylvania as Pa. or Maryland as Md.

On the other hand, what drives me crazy is when people needlessly print an abbreviation of a single word in all capital letters. A Macintosh is not a MAC, an avenue is not an AVE, and a mister is not a MR.
Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: 1995hoo on August 12, 2019, 08:41:50 AM
Quote from: briantroutman on August 11, 2019, 09:14:28 PM
....

On the other hand, what drives me crazy is when people needlessly print an abbreviation of a single word in all capital letters. A Macintosh is not a MAC, an avenue is not an AVE, and a mister is not a MR.

There are people here in the DC area who insist on writing the word "Metro," referring to the transit system, as "METRO." It's neither an abbreviation nor an acronym–it's simply the name. (The acronym for the transit agency is "WMATA.") I suspect some of them may be older people who saw BART and MARTA, both of which opened their rail systems in the 1970s (Metro opened in 1976), and just assumed these things are written in all-caps.

Then there are some people and media outlets that just do weird things. The New York Times strangely and wrongly insists on inserting periods in even the most standard abbreviations (example: they inexplicably think the NHL and the NFL are the "N.H.L." and the "N.F.L."). But that would lead to very awkward results on acronyms like "NASCAR," so on that one they omit the periods and turn it into a word instead ("Nascar").
Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: Ian on August 13, 2019, 08:53:14 AM
Not a state, but MaineDOT uses the former abbreviation for Quebec (PQ) (https://goo.gl/maps/fLAYsTvAUhY9kpzu7) along I-95 northbound approaching exit 133 in Fairfield.
Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: kphoger on August 14, 2019, 02:18:26 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 12, 2019, 08:41:50 AM
There are people here in the DC area who insist on writing the word "Metro," referring to the transit system, as "METRO." It's neither an abbreviation nor an acronym–it's simply the name.

For Chicago's commuter rail network, I'm torn.  I want to write it as MetRa as an allusion to the fact that its name comes from Metropolitan Rail.  However, as far as I'm aware, the agency has never stylized its name that way:  it's always been a lowercase r.
Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: bemybear on August 21, 2019, 01:05:16 PM
Penna works my nerves for some reason. 

Not totally related but old US-6 between Scranton and Carbondale is marked on many signs as Scr-C'Dale Hwy.  We like to say it (skurr-ka-dale) but it's pretty awkward looking and sometimes its on enormous signs where the shortening of the name seems superfluous.
Title: Re: Old state abbreviation usage
Post by: webny99 on August 21, 2019, 07:37:04 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on August 06, 2019, 12:45:39 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 05, 2019, 01:38:45 PM
There used to be an overhead LGS pull-through sign on the former I-95 near Trenton that used "Penna" as the control "city."
There's also the "New York City - VIA PENNA (https://goo.gl/maps/bnNroVe8nmPAjGUG9)"   signage at the I-80/I-76 "bump"  in Ohio.

I always thought "PENNA" was specific to the Turnpike, i.e., used to refer to the road, not the state. But given that it's used for I-80 there, it's obviously referring to the state, which is disgusting!  X-(