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National Boards => General Highway Talk => Topic started by: ozarkman417 on September 02, 2019, 09:41:20 PM

Title: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: ozarkman417 on September 02, 2019, 09:41:20 PM
Cities without an interstate going through them & cities without a 2di within a 10 mile radius don't count. Many larger cities have some sort of bypass or spur going around or through the urban center. Other cities just... don't have one, because a non-interstate route takes that role, it doesn't exist but should or should not be needed.

My example is... Springfield. There's three freeways going around it but it's not exactly a loop. There has in the past been talks about making an I-244 but those died off a while ago.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: Max Rockatansky on September 02, 2019, 09:51:31 PM
Phoenix, ADOT wanted them but couldn't get them added as early Interstate corridors.  AZ 51 is probably based off the proposed I-510 and the Loop 202 was planned as AZ 217. 
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: ilpt4u on September 02, 2019, 09:54:25 PM
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=20298.0

This thread has been had before...

Also, future reference, when alluding to a city named Springfield, add the state (tho I think MO can be inferred here by the 244 mention)

That said, I'll chime one in...NW Indiana. I-294 used to enter Indiana, but not for awhile now. Is NW IN part of Chicagoland? Its a big enough Hoosier population center and crossroads to justify one. Proposals have included both the "long"  and "short"  versions of the Illiana, tho I don't think those proposals got far enough to gather a potential 3DI number
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: ozarkman417 on September 02, 2019, 10:27:53 PM
"You can't delete your own topic in this board".... Great.  :banghead:
I'll let the mods take it from here.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: 1995hoo on September 03, 2019, 08:49:21 PM
Quote from: ozarkman417 on September 02, 2019, 10:27:53 PM
"You can't delete your own topic in this board".... Great.  :banghead:
I'll let the mods take it from here.

You can't delete a topic once there are replies.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: webny99 on September 03, 2019, 09:17:08 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 03, 2019, 08:49:21 PM
Quote from: ozarkman417 on September 02, 2019, 10:27:53 PM
"You can't delete your own topic in this board".... Great.  :banghead:
I'll let the mods take it from here.
You can't delete a topic once there are replies.

You can't delete it before it has replies, either. I've tried on various occasions, and always get a pop-up message: "You can't delete threads from just any board!"

As if there are some boards with special privileges or something.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: KeithE4Phx on September 03, 2019, 10:33:21 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 02, 2019, 09:51:31 PM
Phoenix, ADOT wanted them but couldn't get them added as early Interstate corridors.  AZ 51 is probably based off the proposed I-510 and the Loop 202 was planned as AZ 217.

The first section of what is now I-10 going north from the split with I-17 was originally signed as I-510 for a couple of years in the mid 1960s.  It ended at the entrance to Sky Harbor Airport, at Buckeye Rd.  It was later proposed as I-410, but that was never signed.

ADOT has never proposed or signed any 3DIs since, and there is no chance of any new ones in the future.  And, yes, AZ 51 was based on I-510, although no part of the 51 had been built while I-510 existed.  AZ 217 showed up on some 1980s maps as the number for the Red Mountain Freeway, but no part of that freeway was ever signed as such in the field.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: hbelkins on September 04, 2019, 01:22:20 PM
Biggest one in Kentucky, obviously, is Lexington.

Biggest one in West Virginia is Charleston. The biggest city in the state doesn't have a 3di, while Wheeling does.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: Mark68 on September 04, 2019, 02:12:40 PM
Colorado Springs
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: TEG24601 on September 04, 2019, 02:50:11 PM
Spokane, WA.  It really should get I-290, and perhaps a spur number for the new US395/2 freeway being built.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: thspfc on September 04, 2019, 09:41:20 PM
Madison and Rockford I believe are the largest in their respective states.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: amroad17 on September 04, 2019, 10:44:27 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 04, 2019, 01:22:20 PM
Biggest one in Kentucky, obviously, is Lexington.

Biggest one in West Virginia is Charleston. The biggest city in the state doesn't have a 3di, while Wheeling does.
At one time, wasn't the New Circle Freeway/Road proposed to be I-464 once brought up to Interstate standards?  Also, where would a possible 3di be in the Charleston area, short of upgrading US 119 to full I-standards for an I-x64 spur?

Phoenix is acknowledged to be the largest city without a 3di.  I nominate Orlando as a large city without a 3di.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: GaryV on September 05, 2019, 08:20:05 AM
In Michigan, it would be Ann Arbor.  It would take a lot of work to upgrade M-14 to Interstate standards just to be able to create a I-x94.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on September 05, 2019, 09:08:46 AM
In Indiana, it was South Bend, but now is Evansville, but may eventually be South Bend again, and could become Carmel either before or after reverting back to South Bend.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: sparker on September 05, 2019, 05:36:52 PM
I'm going to go ahead and speculate that Austin, TX may well be the largest city in the whole country without a 3di -- not that they're particularly interested in acquiring or even designating one!  OTOH, they've had a keen interest in deploying regional toll facilities -- functionally in place of any 3di's.  Time will tell whether this particular regional format will persist or, like other toll facilities, become freeways at some point (at which time it's possible that Interstate designations could be sought for some of these roads). 
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: sprjus4 on September 05, 2019, 05:40:14 PM
Quote from: sparker on September 05, 2019, 05:36:52 PM
I'm going to go ahead and speculate that Austin, TX may well be the largest city in the whole country without a 3di -- not that they're particularly interested in acquiring or even designating one!  OTOH, they've had a keen interest in deploying regional toll facilities -- functionally in place of any 3di's.  Time will tell whether this particular regional format will persist or, like other toll facilities, become freeways at some point (at which time it's possible that Interstate designations could be sought for some of these roads).
Population wise, it'd be Phoenix with 1.6 million. Austin is slightly under 1 million. But both cities are definitely close when it comes to population, and are distinctive for not having a 3-D.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: ftballfan on September 05, 2019, 05:41:57 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on September 05, 2019, 09:08:46 AM
In Indiana, it was South Bend, but now is Evansville, but may eventually be South Bend again, and could become Carmel either before or after reverting back to South Bend.

Does I-465 enter Carmel at all?
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: sparker on September 05, 2019, 06:37:27 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on September 05, 2019, 05:40:14 PM
Quote from: sparker on September 05, 2019, 05:36:52 PM
I'm going to go ahead and speculate that Austin, TX may well be the largest city in the whole country without a 3di -- not that they're particularly interested in acquiring or even designating one!  OTOH, they've had a keen interest in deploying regional toll facilities -- functionally in place of any 3di's.  Time will tell whether this particular regional format will persist or, like other toll facilities, become freeways at some point (at which time it's possible that Interstate designations could be sought for some of these roads).
Population wise, it'd be Phoenix with 1.6 million. Austin is slightly under 1 million. But both cities are definitely close when it comes to population, and are distinctive for not having a 3-D.

It's notable that both of these cities, Phoenix & Austin, have deployed rather extensive limited-access facilities outside the Interstate arena -- the first with their "loop" and connector system, the second with the aforementioned toll roadways.  Maybe either or both could be construed as the various jurisdictions' desire to minimize federal oversight of their locally-formulated plans as much as possible -- something not attainable with I-designated facilities (although some federally-sourced funding was undoubtedly part of the process in either instance). 
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on September 06, 2019, 07:36:03 AM
Quote from: ftballfan on September 05, 2019, 05:41:57 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on September 05, 2019, 09:08:46 AM
In Indiana, it was South Bend, but now is Evansville, but may eventually be South Bend again, and could become Carmel either before or after reverting back to South Bend.

Does I-465 enter Carmel at all?

Forgot about that sliver of 465 that enters Carmel.  So it's Evansville for now, but when the I-69 Ohio River bridge is built, that would leave a stub of the existing I-69 that might become I-169, so it could go back to South Bend.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: Brandon on September 06, 2019, 10:39:55 AM
Quote from: thspfc on September 04, 2019, 09:41:20 PM
Madison and Rockford Aurora I believe are the largest in their respective states.

Aurora, although part of Metro Chicago, does not have a 3di of its own.  And it's bigger than Rockford.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: hbelkins on September 06, 2019, 03:09:50 PM
Quote from: amroad17 on September 04, 2019, 10:44:27 PM

At one time, wasn't the New Circle Freeway/Road proposed to be I-464 once brought up to Interstate standards?  [/quote]

No. That's most likely someone's drug-fueled fantasy. Besides, it would have to connect to the existing interstate system.

QuoteAlso, where would a possible 3di be in the Charleston area, short of upgrading US 119 to full I-standards for an I-x64 spur?

I can't really think of any existing routes that would qualify, and there's too much development along Corridor G to upgrade it. Any possible 3di would be some sort of downtown bypass, which really isn't economically feasible.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on September 06, 2019, 08:29:58 PM
MN is Rochester, though technically St. Paul has none within city limits.  :sombrero:

It's been endlessly speculated on this board if Rochester will get an x90 someday, but MN's current practices seem to indicate it'll just stay US 52.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: pianocello on September 07, 2019, 08:27:15 PM
In Iowa, the largest is Iowa City. I-380 is close, but it never enters the city limits.

Honorable mention: I-380 in Iowa has potential as a 2di corridor, so if it is renumbered as such (it won't), it will leave Cedar Rapids and possibly Waterloo as the largest cities in Iowa without a 3di.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: ozarkman417 on September 07, 2019, 08:40:29 PM
Quote from: pianocello on September 07, 2019, 08:27:15 PM
Honorable mention: I-380 in Iowa has potential as a 2di corridor.
I incorporated the entirety of 380 in a fictional 2di Interstate here: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=25552.0 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=25552.0)
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: TBKS1 on September 08, 2019, 01:54:39 PM
For Arkansas, depends on if you're asking before 2014 or after 2014 (the year that Interstate 49 was signed)

After 2014 is definitely Fayetteville (about 80,000)
Before 2014 is probably Conway (about 60,000)

There's also the opposite of this too where some cities don't have a 2di, Jonesboro (I-555) and Pine Bluff (I-530) are the two biggest.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: tolbs17 on September 10, 2019, 10:52:02 PM
Fresno, CA. (Should get I-7)

Greenville, NC. Largest city in the state with no interstate (although, it's getting I-587 pretty soon).
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: froggie on September 11, 2019, 07:49:09 AM
^ But not the largest city in NC without a 3-digit Interstate.  That would currently be Durham, at least until I-885 is completed.  Then it will be High Point.  Greenville is a distant 5th (4th if you count Cary touching I-540, though 540 is technically not WITHIN Cary).
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: vdeane on September 11, 2019, 08:33:40 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on September 11, 2019, 05:21:50 PM
Quote from: froggie on September 11, 2019, 07:49:09 AM
^ But not the largest city in NC without a 3-digit Interstate.  That would currently be Durham, at least until I-885 is completed.  Then it will be High Point.  Greenville is a distant 5th (4th if you count Cary touching I-540, though 540 is technically not WITHIN Cary).
I-74 goes through High Point city limits, I-85 goes through Durham city limits, and segments of I-40 cross into Cary city limits. What's the other one?
I-74, I-85, and I-40 are not three digit interstates.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: sprjus4 on September 11, 2019, 10:19:33 PM
Quote from: vdeane on September 11, 2019, 08:33:40 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on September 11, 2019, 05:21:50 PM
Quote from: froggie on September 11, 2019, 07:49:09 AM
^ But not the largest city in NC without a 3-digit Interstate.  That would currently be Durham, at least until I-885 is completed.  Then it will be High Point.  Greenville is a distant 5th (4th if you count Cary touching I-540, though 540 is technically not WITHIN Cary).
I-74 goes through High Point city limits, I-85 goes through Durham city limits, and segments of I-40 cross into Cary city limits. What's the other one?
I-74, I-85, and I-40 are not three digit interstates.
That's my mistake, I thought he was referring to any interstates. I mis-read the post.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: Verlanka on September 12, 2019, 05:17:43 AM
For Florida it's Orlando.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: bing101 on September 12, 2019, 11:00:36 AM
Sacramento, CA does not have a signed 3di route  but its listed as a hidden route as I-305.

Bakersfield, CA and Fresno, CA are the largest cities in the nation without a 3di or 2di at all.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: sprjus4 on September 12, 2019, 04:51:52 PM
For Virginia, it's Lynchburg. It's also the largest city in the state without any interstate highway.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: sprjus4 on September 12, 2019, 04:54:35 PM
Quote from: bing101 on September 12, 2019, 11:00:36 AM
Bakersfield, CA and Fresno, CA are the largest cities in the nation without a 3di or 2di at all.
Bakersfield comes within 12 miles of I-5, and also the city limits follow the Kern River to where it touches I-5, so technically a sliver is within city limits. And the whole area is served by I-5, at least from the south.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: ozarkman417 on September 12, 2019, 04:59:56 PM
Jeff City is the largest capital without an Interstate though US 63 and 54 are four-lane divided highways up to I-70 which is 25 mi to the north.

SM-G965U

Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: bing101 on September 12, 2019, 10:28:08 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on September 12, 2019, 04:54:35 PM
Quote from: bing101 on September 12, 2019, 11:00:36 AM
Bakersfield, CA and Fresno, CA are the largest cities in the nation without a 3di or 2di at all.
Bakersfield comes within 12 miles of I-5, and also the city limits follow the Kern River to where it touches I-5, so technically a sliver is within city limits. And the whole area is served by I-5, at least from the south.
But nearly 40 years ago Caltrans removed Bakersfield as a control city on I-5 north of the I-10 freeway for Sacramento.
Note CA-170, I-405 and I-210 also have Sacramento as a control city. Was Bakersfield city limits expanded to reach I-5 in the past 4 decades?

Boat Section in Sacramento was opened 4 decades ago.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: Max Rockatansky on September 12, 2019, 11:48:41 PM
Quote from: bing101 on September 12, 2019, 10:28:08 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on September 12, 2019, 04:54:35 PM
Quote from: bing101 on September 12, 2019, 11:00:36 AM
Bakersfield, CA and Fresno, CA are the largest cities in the nation without a 3di or 2di at all.
Bakersfield comes within 12 miles of I-5, and also the city limits follow the Kern River to where it touches I-5, so technically a sliver is within city limits. And the whole area is served by I-5, at least from the south.
But nearly 40 years ago Caltrans removed Bakersfield as a control city on I-5 north of the I-10 freeway for Sacramento.
Note CA-170, I-405 and I-210 also have Sacramento as a control city. Was Bakersfield city limits expanded to reach I-5 in the past 4 decades?

Boat Section in Sacramento was opened 4 decades ago.

Considering how remote the western City Limit of Bakersfield is as it touches I-5 it doesn't warrant being a control city.   CA 99 traverses the core of Bakersfield, I-5 doesn't even come close to downtown. 
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: cjk374 on September 15, 2019, 06:43:20 AM
In Louisiana it would be Monroe, Alexandria, and Lafayette. In about 30-50 years you could add the Ruston/Grambling area to the list.
Title: Re: Largest cities without a 3di interstate route
Post by: thspfc on September 15, 2019, 08:17:17 PM
When talking about metro areas rather than city proper, Iowa's largest w/o a 3di is Ames, the seventh largest in the state. Pretty small. If you count Ames as part of the Des Moines area, it's Dubuque, the 11th largest.