I have found that the State of Rhode Island has absolutely no 3 digit US routes within its borders and the fact that the 3 US routes that are in the Ocean State actually transit between CT and MA.
Then Maine, has only both 1 and 3 digit US routes, but no 2 digits. In addition Maine's only primary US routes are both US 1 and US 2, while the child US routes are US 201, 202, and 302, both outnumbering the primary US route count by one.
Delaware, only to date has one three digit route that is within itself as the rest of the interstate highways are shared with other states.
New York State, for its size, has very few US designations within it. In fact NY City has only 2 US Routes within its borders considering that the largest city in the US should have more. Both even are N-S as no E-W routes pass through the five boroughs.
Then there is New Jersey and its one of a kind jug handles usage. Though some of PA near NJ has them.
California, and its alone interstates being they are one of the many that decommissioned US highway designations upon completion of the interstate system. However, many states still have some US routes kept near interstate freeways or co signed silently or very well. However being the former US routes that did once grace the Golden State, all ended there due to it being in the corner of the US, it had no routes on either side of it that were kept due to the ocean and Mexico preventing any US routes then to go in one end and out the other. Close to it is the northern segment of US 395, which is the only CA US route to transit the state because it enters Nevada to the east after coming down from Oregon in the north.
Any other interesting qualities that you can find about one state that is interesting.
California
- Every route that is under State Maintenance is considered to be the same thing no matter if it is a; US, State or Interstate designation in-field. That's the reason why number duplication is a no-go and things like I-238 happened.
- Caltrans uses their version of Post Mile paddles that count mileage by county rather than by the state wide distance in field.
- Caltrans has it's own MUTCD which leads to some interesting variations; most notably the cut-out shield designs.
- California has a network of lettered County Routes that denote what part of the state the route has an origin in. The lettered county routes are often some of the most bizarre and interesting through routes in the state.
- Expressways aren't considered fully limited access like a "freeway" but rather require some sort of grade separation that must be accessed via some sort of controlled intersection. Whats interesting is that California has a huge number of two-lane expressways that are often plotted out on land that was designed for four. US 101 between Los Angeles and San Francisco is mostly four-lane expressway but yet somehow doesn't have a single traffic light.
- The amount of incomplete and unbuilt state highways is absolutely huge. Many of them are still considered active projects simply because nobody wants to go to the legislature to officially cancel them.
- There is a huge push to relinquish urban highways which has led to some really weird oddities like CA 225 still technically existing for only 0.09 miles.
- Not all State Highways are actually signed which to me seems bizarre. Some examples that come to mind off the top of my head; CA 225, CA 283, CA 275, CA 109 and CA 114.
There are only 5 states where all the US and Interstate routes in the state end in that state. 4 of them are in the "corners" - ME, FL, CA, WA. The other is Michigan (counting the east and west parts of US-2 as separate routes)
Quote from: GaryV on September 08, 2019, 02:21:40 PM
There are only 5 states where all the US and Interstate routes in the state end in that state. 4 of them are in the "corners" - ME, FL, CA, WA. The other is Michigan (counting the east and west parts of US-2 as separate routes)
US 95
Arizona:
- There are several State Highways with dirt segments; AZ 88 and 288 come to mine most prominently.
- The original run of State Highways were given numbers consecutive to the original run of US Route which is why there are so many in the 60-99 range.
- State Highways often have child Routes which are three digits akin to 3D Interstates.
- Arizona has two colored shield era; first in the 50s/60s with US Route/State Highway shields and later with the Phoenix Loop Highways. Some signage on the Loop Highways remains in color.
- Arizona probably is the most controlling western state with mountain speed limits. Almost every mountain grade contains an absurd amount of speed limit signs and slow ones at that.
- Arizona has no 3D Interstates.
- Arizona has no tolled State Highways.
- Arizona has a surprisingly large number of hanging ends such as; AZ 99, AZ 238 and AZ 96.
- Arizona has numerous number duplications. AZ 95 and US 95 actually meet in Quartzsite.
- Both I-8 and I-10 borrowed from State Highways (AZ 84 and AZ 86) better alignments through the state over US 80.
- US Routes have State Highway family's. The family routes of US 66 still exist in AZ 266 and AZ 366, they were connected to US 66 by way of US 666.
I just thought of this- all five of Wisconsin's interstates come within a mile of (or cross) the Illinois border.
US 64 from Plymouth to Columbia is a freeway and there's very little traffic on it.
Quote from: mrhappy1261 on September 08, 2019, 06:17:31 PM
US 64 from Plymouth to Columbia is a freeway and there's very little traffic on it.
(!)
Might as well do one for Utah:
- All Interstates, US highways, and state routes are legislatively defined, and even different types of routes are equivalent in state law (for example, I-15 is legally just "route 15"). This means there is no route number duplication at all.
- With only two exceptions, all state-maintained highways are numbered routes, and all numbered routes are state-maintained highways.
- This results in a set of around thirty "institutional routes" numbered from 281 to 320, which consist of various road segments in Utah state institutions and parks that happen to be maintained by UDOT. Most of the institutional routes are unsigned, but several of the park routes are indeed signed as such.
- It also means Utah can't just give back random segments of road to cities as is done in the Northeast. If a city wants to maintain a small segment of a numbered route, it often results in a complex series of truncations, renumberings, and/or decommissionings.
- Another consequence of this principle is that state-maintained business routes (which is almost all of them) also have a state route designation which tends to be better signed than the BL. Only two segments of non-SR business loop exist: a portion of I-15 Business in Tremonton and most of US 6/191 Business in Helper. Because the state doesn't maintain these roads, BL signage is pretty poor on them.
- The two exceptions to the above rule are SR 900 and SR 901, which consist of a handful of BLM and county roads in the Skull Valley. They were created in the late 1990s so that the state could prevent construction of a nuclear waste-carrying rail line, which would have crossed those roads.
- Two unpaved segments of state highway still exist: the famous Moki Dugway on SR 261, and an unpaved portion on SR 153.
- State route numbering is largely done without any real organization in mind, but some vestiges of a former number-clustering system are present: the original routes in the 10s were located towards the southwestern area of the state, 20s were more in the central areas, 30s were generally northern and 40s more eastern. Numbers were assigned in order of creation for a while, but that gradually transitioned to a random assignment of previously-used numbers. Even today, route numbers with similar digits tend to be located relatively close to one another.
- Almost all exits, even those from non-interstates, are numbered.
- Despite widespread implementation of a rural 80 mph/urban 70 mph limit on interstates, there is still a statutory maximum of 65 mph for any non-interstate road, regardless of quality.
- In addition to the HOT express lanes on I-15, two toll roads exist and neither are state maintained. One is a privately owned connector road from I-84 to South Ogden, and the other is a county-maintained causeway used to access Antelope Island.
California:
- A couple interstates have long portions (significant fractions of the route) that have not seen much urban development despite existing for decades. I-5 in the Central Valley is well known for this, but I-280 from I-380 and CA-85 is largely rural and scenic for a SF Bay Area freeway.
- Signs exist denoting the mileage of the east termini of a few cross-country routes, mainly I-40, US 6, and US 50.
- One particular state route is signed as "California's shortest state highway" but is in fact not the shortest, both signed and unsigned.
- Some state routes that had to be renumbered (before the 1964 renumbering) still keep the same digits. CA 35 was once CA 5, CA 128 was once CA 28, CA 371 was once part of CA 71.
Quote from: Techknow on September 08, 2019, 10:12:52 PM
California:
- A couple interstates have long portions (significant fractions of the route) that have not seen much urban development despite existing for decades. I-5 in the Central Valley is well known for this, but I-280 from I-380 and CA-85 is largely rural and scenic for a SF Bay Area freeway.
- Signs exist denoting the mileage of the east termini of a few cross-country routes, mainly I-40, US 6, and US 50.
- One particular state route is signed as "California's shortest state highway" but is in fact not the shortest, both signed and unsigned.
- Some state routes that had to be renumbered (before the 1964 renumbering) still keep the same digits. CA 35 was once CA 5, CA 128 was once CA 28, CA 371 was once part of CA 71.
Heh...that whole thing with CA 77 sure threw a wrench in the "shortest signed" party for CA 153. CA 153 ranks behind; CA 225, CA 283, CA 275 and CA 77 in terms of actual field mileage.
Quote from: roadman65 on September 08, 2019, 10:23:27 AMHowever being the former US routes that did once grace the Golden State [i.e. California], all ended there due to it being in the corner of the US, it had no routes on either side of it that were kept due to the ocean and Mexico preventing any US routes then to go in one end and out the other. Close to it is the northern segment of US 395, which is the only CA US route to transit the state because it enters Nevada to the east after coming down from Oregon in the north.
I believe something was overlooked here...
Quote from: 1 on September 08, 2019, 04:48:18 PM
US 95
In GA, all freeways have 400-series route numbers assigned to them. With SR 400 being the lone exception, these numbers are hidden designations.
I-16--SR 404
I-20--SR 402
I-75--SR 401
I-85--SR 403
I-95--SR 405
I-516--SR 404 Spur
I-420--SR 414
I-520--SR 415
I-175--SR 412
I-475--SR 408
I-575--SR 417
I-675--SR 413
I-185--SR 411
I-285--SR 407
I-485--SR 410
I-985--SR 419
Maryland:
-The state's lowest state route number range, 2-37, is scattered sporadically throughout the state. Route 2-6 are present mainly in southern Maryland, 7-10 are outliers in various parts of the state, then 12-21 up the Eastern Shore from south to north, 22-24 all in Harford County, and then 25-32 between Baltimore and Frederick, and finally 34-37 through western Maryland. 11, 13, 15 and 29 are unused to avoid duplication with U.S. routes. Also, routes 17 and 33 are swapped, with 17 being in Frederick and Washington counties out west, and 33 in Talbot County on the Eastern Shore.
-A number of Maryland state routes are dead-end stubs that lead to State Highway Administration facilities.
-Some higher-numbered routes are old alignments of lower-numbered state routes and U.S. routes that run parallel to said routes. Some of these old alignments are county-maintained instead.
-Each county, excluding Baltimore city, has a range of designated state route number ranges between the numbers 38 and roughly 378. For example, Cecil County's state route number range is 268-285.
Maryland also tends to have numbers for old stretches of concrete left over from when a route was realigned, such as MD 856 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2981694,-76.0623412,166m/data=!3m1!1e3).
Quote from: epzik8 on September 09, 2019, 11:53:25 AM
Maryland:
...
-Some higher-numbered routes are old alignments of lower-numbered state routes and U.S. routes that run parallel to said routes. Some of these old alignments are county-maintained instead.
The route numbers seem to exist only for old alignments that the DOT has failed to fob off on a county or other local government. Maryland, like Hawaii, seems to assign a number to every scrap of state highway department-maintained pavement. But many of them are unsigned.
This was probably mentioned in another thread a while back. MA no longer has any route 40, 45, 50 or 55 in its state route system. Such were changed decades ago, usually to MA 1XX, to avoid potential confusion with corresponding speed limit signs... especially when the numeral fonts used for both the route numbers & speed limit numbers were the same.
Quote from: PHLBOS on September 09, 2019, 01:41:28 PM
This was probably mentioned in another thread a while back. MA no longer has any route 40, 45, 50 or 55 in its state route system. Such were changed decades ago, usually to MA 1XX, to avoid potential confusion with corresponding speed limit signs... especially when the numeral fonts used for both the route numbers & speed limit numbers were the same.
MA 40 exists. However, even if there was confusion, 40 is a reasonable speed for that road.
(Couple fixes in this list)
Quote from: Henry on September 09, 2019, 09:25:07 AM
In GA, all freeways have 400-series route numbers assigned to them. With SR 400 being the lone exception, these numbers are hidden designations.
I-16--SR 404
I-20--SR 402
I-75--SR 401
I-85--SR 403
I-95--SR 405
I-24--SR 409
I-59--SR 406
I-516--SR 404 Spur SR 421
I-420--SR 414
I-520--SR 415
I-175--SR 412
I-475--SR 408
I-575--SR 417
I-675--SR 413
I-185--SR 411
I-285--SR 407
I-485--SR 410
I-985--SR 419
Though I-485 died, GA 410 remains and is signed.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ften93.com%2Froadphotos%2Fnumbers%2Fga410_2.jpg&hash=b267c335c7665116f778b71d8d8b91a9ba2191e7)
404 Spur is a signed route along US 17 on the bridge over the Savannah River into South Carolina; I-516's unsigned number is 421.
There's also another (along with 400) not associated with an Interstate: 422, the Athens Perimeter. Unlike 400 and 410, though, that one's unsigned.
(SR 420 has, to my knowledge, never been used, maybe to prevent confusion with the cancelled I-420?)
MN has corridors that are defined in the state constitution going back to the initial creation of the state highway system, so as roads grew and evolved with the addition of US routes and later Interstates, those corridors still needed to be met by the new roads.
North Carolina, as far as I can tell, has no county routes. Secondary roads have a four digit SR code; signed on green street blades as SR 1101, as an example.
Also, I have only ever seen the "superstreet" highway concept in NC. This design is based heavily on U-turns. All roads intersecting such a highway can only turn right. Left turns, as well as straight across movements, must turn right and go through a U-turn. I am not a fan of the setup.
Quote from: fillup420 on September 09, 2019, 05:01:24 PM
Also, I have only ever seen the "superstreet" highway concept in NC. This design is based heavily on U-turns. All roads intersecting such a highway can only turn right. Left turns, as well as straight across movements, must turn right and go through a U-turn. I am not a fan of the setup.
Metro Detroit has a lot of them.
Quote from: Techknow on September 08, 2019, 10:12:52 PM
California:
- A couple interstates have long portions (significant fractions of the route) that have not seen much urban development despite existing for decades. I-5 in the Central Valley is well known for this, but I-280 from I-380 and CA-85 is largely rural and scenic for a SF Bay Area freeway.
- Signs exist denoting the mileage of the east termini of a few cross-country routes, mainly I-40, US 6, and US 50.
- One particular state route is signed as "California's shortest state highway" but is in fact not the shortest, both signed and unsigned.
- Some state routes that had to be renumbered (before the 1964 renumbering) still keep the same digits. CA 35 was once CA 5, CA 128 was once CA 28, CA 371 was once part of CA 71.
Except for a little bit of I-5 between Patterson and the I-580 split (as well as I-580 NW of there) there isn't much in the way of adjacent residential (or ancillary commercial) development along the San Joaquin Valley segment of I-5; the snippets of Patterson-area development are simply part of the Bay Area "affordable" housing spillover. The fact that it's remote and lacks much in the way of amenities only partially explains that dearth; the simple fact that most of the adjoining land from Wheeler Ridge to around the Gustine (CA 140) exit is owned by various forms of agribusiness, from cotton along the southern reaches south of the Kettleman Hills to the famous/notorious (just take a whiff!) Harris Ranch and its feedlot adjoining the CA 33/145 interchange. If the land is producing substantial income, its owners have little incentive to further develop it.
And speaking of derivative route numbers -- there's always CA 330, which was the original routing of the late CA 30 "up the hill" from Highland to Running Springs -- still the fastest way to get from the "flatlands" to the Big Bear area.
Here's one for all states:
a state's "missing 3di score" is the number of primary interstates that have a 3di in another state but not that one. For example I-24, I-59 and I-95 all enter Georgia, and have 3di's in other states (TN, AL, east coast) but not Georgia. So the Peachtree State's score is 3.
Yeah, it's not fair, because those routes cut through corners of GA (and I-16 takes the place of an x95 spur that would otherwise connect to Savannah), but that's how the score is calculated.
Several states have a score of zero: New Jersey takes care of I-76, 78, 80, and 95; and even New York has a 3di for every interstate that has any at all (I-86 and I-88 do not.)
What state has the highest score? Arizona has 3 (10, 15, 40). Indiana has 5 (70, 74, 80, 90, 94). But the winner has 6 -- and unlike the others, it has plenty of 3di's in-state (and 2 of its primary routes don't have 3di's anywhere else!)
What could this mystery state be?
Quote from: kurumi on September 10, 2019, 12:48:42 AM
Here's one for all states:
a state's "missing 3di score" is the number of primary interstates that have a 3di in another state but not that one. For example I-24, I-59 and I-95 all enter Georgia, and have 3di's in other states (TN, AL, east coast) but not Georgia. So the Peachtree State's score is 3.
Yeah, it's not fair, because those routes cut through corners of GA (and I-16 takes the place of an x95 spur that would otherwise connect to Savannah), but that's how the score is calculated.
Several states have a score of zero: New Jersey takes care of I-76, 78, 80, and 95; and even New York has a 3di for every interstate that has any at all (I-86 and I-88 do not.)
What state has the highest score? Arizona has 3 (10, 15, 40). Indiana has 5 (70, 74, 80, 90, 94). But the winner has 6 -- and unlike the others, it has plenty of 3di's in-state (and 2 of its primary routes don't have 3di's anywhere else!)
What could this mystery state be?
And the answer is: Texas!
Indiana also has I-64 which has no 3dis in the state but the interstate has 3dis elsewhere (Kentucky and Virginia.) That would bring us up to six as well.
Quote from: kurumi on September 10, 2019, 12:48:42 AM
Here's one for all states:
a state's "missing 3di score" is the number of primary interstates that have a 3di in another state but not that one. For example I-24, I-59 and I-95 all enter Georgia, and have 3di's in other states (TN, AL, east coast) but not Georgia. So the Peachtree State's score is 3.
Yeah, it's not fair, because those routes cut through corners of GA (and I-16 takes the place of an x95 spur that would otherwise connect to Savannah), but that's how the score is calculated.
Several states have a score of zero: New Jersey takes care of I-76, 78, 80, and 95; and even New York has a 3di for every interstate that has any at all (I-86 and I-88 do not.)
What state has the highest score? Arizona has 3 (10, 15, 40). Indiana has 5 (70, 74, 80, 90, 94). But the winner has 6 -- and unlike the others, it has plenty of 3di's in-state (and 2 of its primary routes don't have 3di's anywhere else!)
What could this mystery state be?
Pennsylvania. I-70, I-78, I-81, I-84, I-86 and I-90 all enter Pennsylvania, but none have three-digit Interstates there.
The three-digit Interstates in Pennsylvania are:
I-176
I-180
I-276
I-279
I-283
I-295
I-376
I-380
I-476
I-579
I-676
:sombrero:
Quote from: 1 on September 09, 2019, 05:13:47 PM
Quote from: fillup420 on September 09, 2019, 05:01:24 PM
Also, I have only ever seen the "superstreet" highway concept in NC. This design is based heavily on U-turns. All roads intersecting such a highway can only turn right. Left turns, as well as straight across movements, must turn right and go through a U-turn. I am not a fan of the setup.
Metro Detroit has a lot of them.
I think you're confusing super streets with Michigan lefts.
Quote from: Gnutella on September 10, 2019, 05:35:26 AM
Quote from: kurumi on September 10, 2019, 12:48:42 AM
Here's one for all states:
a state's "missing 3di score" is the number of primary interstates that have a 3di in another state but not that one. For example I-24, I-59 and I-95 all enter Georgia, and have 3di's in other states (TN, AL, east coast) but not Georgia. So the Peachtree State's score is 3.
Yeah, it's not fair, because those routes cut through corners of GA (and I-16 takes the place of an x95 spur that would otherwise connect to Savannah), but that's how the score is calculated.
Several states have a score of zero: New Jersey takes care of I-76, 78, 80, and 95; and even New York has a 3di for every interstate that has any at all (I-86 and I-88 do not.)
What state has the highest score? Arizona has 3 (10, 15, 40). Indiana has 5 (70, 74, 80, 90, 94). But the winner has 6 -- and unlike the others, it has plenty of 3di's in-state (and 2 of its primary routes don't have 3di's anywhere else!)
What could this mystery state be?
Pennsylvania. I-70, I-78, I-81, I-84, I-86 and I-90 all enter Pennsylvania, but none have three-digit Interstates there.
The three-digit Interstates in Pennsylvania are:
I-176
I-180
I-276
I-279
I-283
I-295
I-376
I-380
I-476
I-579
I-676
:sombrero:
I-86 doesn't have any 3dis. Since I-295 was extended into Pennsylvania, its "score" is down to 5. The 6th was I-95.
Quote from: tdindy88 on September 10, 2019, 01:07:25 AM
Indiana also has I-64 which has no 3dis in the state but the interstate has 3dis elsewhere (Kentucky and Virginia.) That would bring us up to six as well.
If you expressed this score as a percentage instead of a number, Alaska and New Mexico would be at 100%, and Indiana would be next at 86%.
Quote from: 1 on September 09, 2019, 05:13:47 PM
Quote from: fillup420 on September 09, 2019, 05:01:24 PM
Also, I have only ever seen the "superstreet" highway concept in NC. This design is based heavily on U-turns. All roads intersecting such a highway can only turn right. Left turns, as well as straight across movements, must turn right and go through a U-turn. I am not a fan of the setup.
Metro Detroit has a lot of them.
It's definitely found elsewhere, but North Carolina has this particular obsession with them. Every single new divided road here seems to be one and ones that aren't are being changed to them.
As for the secondary road designations, signage for them can vary by division. We do not have county roads, yes, but these secondary roads are numbered at the county level and often reset on county lines. Nearly every single road that isn't a US highway, Interstate, city street, or NC highway has an SR number. Even my high school's student drop-off loop has one, SR 1383. The first digit rarely ever exceeds 2, and when it does, it doesn't go above 3, IIRC. Most divisions (like mine, division 10) sign them on black street blades on the top of stop signs, like this, state highways and US routes are sometimes signed like this as well:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.9786968,-80.5823739,3a,15y,150.71h,93.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfFK2dyxynCOkqaUp8Ym87g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@34.9786968,-80.5823739,3a,15y,150.71h,93.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfFK2dyxynCOkqaUp8Ym87g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
They also used to be signed like this:
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.0251036,-80.6611511,3a,15y,288.32h,89.81t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sdvIITerk0qDMmE7Aqg2fXA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DdvIITerk0qDMmE7Aqg2fXA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D101.27884%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100 (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.0251036,-80.6611511,3a,15y,288.32h,89.81t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sdvIITerk0qDMmE7Aqg2fXA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DdvIITerk0qDMmE7Aqg2fXA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D101.27884%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100)
Division 14 typically signs them vertically on stop sign posts, I can't find it on GSV right now and I can't illustrate it in Inkscape but it would look something like this:
1
3
0
8
->
South Carolina uses a similar system to this, and also has no county routes. The main difference is that the roads are numbered S-XX-XX. Even the street blades look the same.
They also sign them on overpasses like this, whereas NC just posts a small number on a green sign next to it:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.3628867,-80.997024,3a,17.1y,182.95h,98.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3leffVG0ku_aCtYPoEFKIw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@34.3628867,-80.997024,3a,17.1y,182.95h,98.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3leffVG0ku_aCtYPoEFKIw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
In general, South Carolina is a very unique state when it comes to roads, SCDOT design has a very unique look to it.
Quote from: tdindy88 on September 10, 2019, 01:07:25 AM
Indiana also has I-64 which has no 3dis in the state but the interstate has 3dis elsewhere (Kentucky and Virginia.) That would bring us up to six as well.
My bad. I sliced and diced the FHWA Route Log, which still included I-164.
Quote from: index on September 10, 2019, 09:47:42 AM
As for the secondary road designations, signage for them can vary by division. We do not have county roads, yes, but these secondary roads are numbered at the county level and often reset on county lines. Nearly every single road that isn't a US highway, Interstate, city street, or NC highway has an SR number. Even my high school's student drop-off loop has one, SR 1383. The first digit rarely ever exceeds 2, and when it does, it doesn't go above 3, IIRC. Most divisions (like mine, division 10) sign them on black street blades on the top of stop signs
In general, South Carolina is a very unique state when it comes to roads, SCDOT design has a very unique look to it.
I've only seen the black on-top-of stop sign version of NC Secondary signage in the Charlotte region.
Also, the more populous NC counties have secondary numbers that go as high as the 6000s.
Oconee County, SC has signed county routes like this - https://goo.gl/maps/XKTBsqajhPyDveGn8
Orangeburg County used to also have some but random GMSV suggests they may have deposted these
Greenville County has some sort of county marking grid system they post on the street signs - https://goo.gl/maps/5cLdRqmX1xD8wPTM7
Oklahoma has no idea what it's doing.
Quote from: 1 on September 09, 2019, 05:13:47 PM
Quote from: fillup420 on September 09, 2019, 05:01:24 PM
Also, I have only ever seen the "superstreet" highway concept in NC. This design is based heavily on U-turns. All roads intersecting such a highway can only turn right. Left turns, as well as straight across movements, must turn right and go through a U-turn. I am not a fan of the setup.
Metro Detroit has a lot of them.
A Michigan left turn doesn't prohibit the straight movement though.
Quote from: Flint1979 on September 11, 2019, 08:48:38 PM
Quote from: 1 on September 09, 2019, 05:13:47 PM
Quote from: fillup420 on September 09, 2019, 05:01:24 PM
Also, I have only ever seen the "superstreet" highway concept in NC. This design is based heavily on U-turns. All roads intersecting such a highway can only turn right. Left turns, as well as straight across movements, must turn right and go through a U-turn. I am not a fan of the setup.
Metro Detroit has a lot of them.
A Michigan left turn doesn't prohibit the straight movement though.
Most of the Michigan Lefts on US-31 between New Holland St and Fillmore St force traffic going straight through to turn right and then U-turn (the only exception is at Port Sheldon St).
There are also several no-straight-thru Michigan Lefts on M-121 between Zeeland and Hudsonville, M-45 in the Allendale area, and US-12 between Ypsilanti and Wayne
Quote from: ftballfan on September 12, 2019, 10:03:49 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on September 11, 2019, 08:48:38 PM
Quote from: 1 on September 09, 2019, 05:13:47 PM
Quote from: fillup420 on September 09, 2019, 05:01:24 PM
Also, I have only ever seen the "superstreet" highway concept in NC. This design is based heavily on U-turns. All roads intersecting such a highway can only turn right. Left turns, as well as straight across movements, must turn right and go through a U-turn. I am not a fan of the setup.
Metro Detroit has a lot of them.
A Michigan left turn doesn't prohibit the straight movement though.
Most of the Michigan Lefts on US-31 between New Holland St and Fillmore St force traffic going straight through to turn right and then U-turn (the only exception is at Port Sheldon St).
There are also several no-straight-thru Michigan Lefts on M-121 between Zeeland and Hudsonville, M-45 in the Allendale area, and US-12 between Ypsilanti and Wayne
M-5 on Grand River Avenue had some prohibited lefts when I lived in the area. It still looks one at M-102/Eight Mile Road is still present.
Illinois has more 2di's than any other state.
In Michigan, Every interstate with the exception of I-194, I-275, I-296, I-475,and I-675 have a Interstate Business route (I-69, I-75, I-94, I-96, I-196, I-375, I-496, and I-696.)
Quote from: cwf1701 on September 12, 2019, 11:29:17 PM
In Michigan, Every interstate with the exception of I-194, I-275, I-296, I-475,and I-675 have a Interstate Business route (I-69, I-75, I-94, I-96, I-196, I-375, I-496, and I-696.)
What's so special about that? Out of 13 interstates 5 of them don't have business routes.
I'm guessing states which don't duplicate US and interstate route numbers counts in this thread? Connecticut has the following:
US Route 1
US Route 5
US Route 6
US Route 7
US Route 44
US Route 202
I-84
I-91
I-95
I-291
I-384
I-395
I-684 (clips the northwest corner of Greenwich)
I-691
Connecticut's highest numbered route in the field is 372 (from the Plainville/Bristol town line to Cromwell).
Connecticut also doesn't have any county routes. Interstate mileage is from state line to state line (about 97 and change for I-84, 58 for I-91 and about 110-ish for I-95).
Quote from: fillup420 on September 09, 2019, 05:01:24 PM
North Carolina, as far as I can tell, has no county routes. Secondary roads have a four digit SR code; signed on green street blades as SR 1101, as an example.
South Carolina has something similar. They have state designations like "S-27-172" for Gregorie Neck Road in Jasper County, and I've seen things like "S-25-2112" or something like that on similar local roads.
On the other side of North Carolina, Virginia seems to have two classes of State Secondary Routes. The most notable, are your black and white circles, which I remember an old crusade to have banned for other states back in the days when the internet first encountered roadgeeking, and routes of a lower class which only have street name signs.
Quote from: D-Dey65 on September 13, 2019, 11:01:23 AM
On the other side of North Carolina, Virginia seems to have two classes of State Secondary Routes. The most notable, are your black and white circles, which I remember an old crusade to have banned for other states back in the days when the internet first encountered roadgeeking, and routes of a lower class which only have street name signs.
Black and white circles are spelled out as the default route marker by the MUTCD. They were never in danger of getting "banned"–roadgeeks just don't like states using them because they're bland and uncreative. Notably, Oklahoma shifted away from them around the time roadgeeking started to pick up steam on the internet, but that had nothing to do with any sort of crusade against them–it was due to Oklahoma's centennial.
In addition to Virginia, MS, IA, KY, NJ, DE, and VT still use the circles in some capacity.
Quote from: kurumi on September 10, 2019, 12:48:42 AM
Here's one for all states:
a state's "missing 3di score" is the number of primary interstates that have a 3di in another state but not that one. For example I-24, I-59 and I-95 all enter Georgia, and have 3di's in other states (TN, AL, east coast) but not Georgia. So the Peachtree State's score is 3.
Yeah, it's not fair, because those routes cut through corners of GA (and I-16 takes the place of an x95 spur that would otherwise connect to Savannah), but that's how the score is calculated.
Several states have a score of zero: New Jersey takes care of I-76, 78, 80, and 95; and even New York has a 3di for every interstate that has any at all (I-86 and I-88 do not.)
What state has the highest score? Arizona has 3 (10, 15, 40). Indiana has 5 (70, 74, 80, 90, 94). But the winner has 6 -- and unlike the others, it has plenty of 3di's in-state (and 2 of its primary routes don't have 3di's anywhere else!)
What could this mystery state be?
I-64 traverses 6 states between Wentzville, MO and Chesapeake, VA over a 953 mile course, and with I-264 in Kentucky being the one exception, all of the 3d's for that route exist in Hampton Roads, Virginia - I-264, I-464, I-564, and I-664.
I-164 also used to exist in Indiana, but was replaced with I-69.
Quote from: D-Dey65 on September 13, 2019, 11:01:23 AM
On the other side of North Carolina, Virginia seems to have two classes of State Secondary Routes. The most notable, are your black and white circles, which I remember an old crusade to have banned for other states back in the days when the internet first encountered roadgeeking, and routes of a lower class which only have street name signs.
Virginia definitely has just one system of secondary state route. Not sure exactly what is meant by street name sign posting for secondary routes, but to my knowledge nowhere in Virginia are secondary routes routinely posted solely by references on green street blade signs.
Quote from: D-Dey65 on September 13, 2019, 11:01:23 AM
On the other side of North Carolina, Virginia seems to have two classes of State Secondary Routes. The most notable, are your black and white circles, which I remember an old crusade to have banned for other states back in the days when the internet first encountered roadgeeking, and routes of a lower class which only have street name signs.
There's no difference in the routes. A number of them are signed with both circular markers and the rectangular ones.
Quote from: Mapmikey on September 13, 2019, 11:24:08 PM
Quote from: D-Dey65 on September 13, 2019, 11:01:23 AM
On the other side of North Carolina, Virginia seems to have two classes of State Secondary Routes. The most notable, are your black and white circles, which I remember an old crusade to have banned for other states back in the days when the internet first encountered roadgeeking, and routes of a lower class which only have street name signs.
Virginia definitely has just one system of secondary state route. Not sure exactly what is meant by street name sign posting for secondary routes, but to my knowledge nowhere in Virginia are secondary routes routinely posted solely by references on green street blade signs.
Probably the rectangular markers such as the one you can see here.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmillenniumhwy.net%2Foldsigns%2Fva%2Fhalegap.jpg&hash=b453cc201f4d58b69a42e2417ab812a61f13504f)
Quote from: Mapmikey on September 13, 2019, 11:24:08 PM
Quote from: D-Dey65 on September 13, 2019, 11:01:23 AM
On the other side of North Carolina, Virginia seems to have two classes of State Secondary Routes. The most notable, are your black and white circles, which I remember an old crusade to have banned for other states back in the days when the internet first encountered roadgeeking, and routes of a lower class which only have street name signs.
Virginia definitely has just one system of secondary state route. Not sure exactly what is meant by street name sign posting for secondary routes, but to my knowledge nowhere in Virginia are secondary routes routinely posted solely by references on green street blade signs.
I've seen "F" routes, presumably Frontage Roads, but they're marked on the traditional circle route shield with F-XXX
Quote from: sprjus4 on September 13, 2019, 11:30:20 PM
Quote from: Mapmikey on September 13, 2019, 11:24:08 PM
Quote from: D-Dey65 on September 13, 2019, 11:01:23 AM
On the other side of North Carolina, Virginia seems to have two classes of State Secondary Routes. The most notable, are your black and white circles, which I remember an old crusade to have banned for other states back in the days when the internet first encountered roadgeeking, and routes of a lower class which only have street name signs.
Virginia definitely has just one system of secondary state route. Not sure exactly what is meant by street name sign posting for secondary routes, but to my knowledge nowhere in Virginia are secondary routes routinely posted solely by references on green street blade signs.
I've seen "F" routes, presumably Frontage Roads, but they're marked on the traditional circle route shield with F-XXX
I've seen them in the rectangles as well, along with "T" routes.
Quote from: kurumi on September 10, 2019, 12:48:42 AM
Here's one for all states:
a state's "missing 3di score" is the number of primary interstates that have a 3di in another state but not that one. For example I-24, I-59 and I-95 all enter Georgia, and have 3di's in other states (TN, AL, east coast) but not Georgia. So the Peachtree State's score is 3.
Yeah, it's not fair, because those routes cut through corners of GA (and I-16 takes the place of an x95 spur that would otherwise connect to Savannah), but that's how the score is calculated.
Several states have a score of zero: New Jersey takes care of I-76, 78, 80, and 95; and even New York has a 3di for every interstate that has any at all (I-86 and I-88 do not.)
What state has the highest score? Arizona has 3 (10, 15, 40). Indiana has 5 (70, 74, 80, 90, 94). But the winner has 6 -- and unlike the others, it has plenty of 3di's in-state (and 2 of its primary routes don't have 3di's anywhere else!)
What could this mystery state be?
Is it Texas?
Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on September 10, 2019, 12:53:39 AM
Quote from: kurumi on September 10, 2019, 12:48:42 AM
Here's one for all states:
a state's "missing 3di score" is the number of primary interstates that have a 3di in another state but not that one. For example I-24, I-59 and I-95 all enter Georgia, and have 3di's in other states (TN, AL, east coast) but not Georgia. So the Peachtree State's score is 3.
Yeah, it's not fair, because those routes cut through corners of GA (and I-16 takes the place of an x95 spur that would otherwise connect to Savannah), but that's how the score is calculated.
Several states have a score of zero: New Jersey takes care of I-76, 78, 80, and 95; and even New York has a 3di for every interstate that has any at all (I-86 and I-88 do not.)
What state has the highest score? Arizona has 3 (10, 15, 40). Indiana has 5 (70, 74, 80, 90, 94). But the winner has 6 -- and unlike the others, it has plenty of 3di's in-state (and 2 of its primary routes don't have 3di's anywhere else!)
What could this mystery state be?
And the answer is: Texas!
Good thing it only took me about a minute to figure that out. I didn't scroll down this far and thought it was a new post lol.
Quote from: sprjus4 on September 13, 2019, 11:30:20 PM
Quote from: Mapmikey on September 13, 2019, 11:24:08 PM
Quote from: D-Dey65 on September 13, 2019, 11:01:23 AM
On the other side of North Carolina, Virginia seems to have two classes of State Secondary Routes. The most notable, are your black and white circles, which I remember an old crusade to have banned for other states back in the days when the internet first encountered roadgeeking, and routes of a lower class which only have street name signs.
Virginia definitely has just one system of secondary state route. Not sure exactly what is meant by street name sign posting for secondary routes, but to my knowledge nowhere in Virginia are secondary routes routinely posted solely by references on green street blade signs.
I've seen "F" routes, presumably Frontage Roads, but they're marked on the traditional circle route shield with F-XXX
F routes are technically in the primary system. T routes are in the same secondary system and indicate that an incorporated town's roads are maintained by VDOT.
Quote from: index on September 10, 2019, 09:47:42 AM
In general, South Carolina is a very unique state when it comes to roads, SCDOT design has a very unique look to it.
I lived in SC for a bit, and this is very true. the material used for BGSs on interstates is quite odd looking compared to NC, and the state route shield on BGS doesn't always match what is on the route itself. Although this is due to the change in state route shield design in like 2005.
also SC seems to have been a fan of directional intersections in the past. for example:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.2307707,-80.8872823,17z
Many have been reconfigured to a more standard approach over the years, but usually evidence of them can be seen. Some still remain and I always enjoy coming across one.
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 13, 2019, 10:43:10 PM
Black and white circles are spelled out as the default route marker by the MUTCD. They were never in danger of getting "banned"–roadgeeks just don't like states using them because they're bland and uncreative.
Yes, but this crusade to do away with them still existed.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 13, 2019, 11:29:54 PM
Probably the rectangular markers such as the one you can see here.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmillenniumhwy.net%2Foldsigns%2Fva%2Fhalegap.jpg&hash=b453cc201f4d58b69a42e2417ab812a61f13504f)
That's them.
Quote from: fillup420 on September 15, 2019, 07:28:33 AM
also SC seems to have been a fan of directional intersections in the past. for example:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.2307707,-80.8872823,17z
I want to see that at US 301 and NC 48 in Pleasant Hill, NC, but with additional lanes for the post office there.
Quote from: D-Dey65 on September 15, 2019, 10:06:02 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 13, 2019, 10:43:10 PM
Black and white circles are spelled out as the default route marker by the MUTCD. They were never in danger of getting "banned"–roadgeeks just don't like states using them because they're bland and uncreative.
Yes, but this crusade to do away with them still existed.
I remember no crusade to do away with them. I know most don't like them, but there was no official crusade to eliminate them.
i do, however, remember the Butterfly Crusade. :bigass:
Quote from: hbelkins on September 15, 2019, 07:44:17 PM
Quote from: D-Dey65 on September 15, 2019, 10:06:02 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 13, 2019, 10:43:10 PM
Black and white circles are spelled out as the default route marker by the MUTCD. They were never in danger of getting "banned"–roadgeeks just don't like states using them because they're bland and uncreative.
Yes, but this crusade to do away with them still existed.
I remember no crusade to do away with them. I know most don't like them, but there was no official crusade to eliminate them.
i do, however, remember the Butterfly Crusade. :bigass:
Oh shoot, not this again.
We will never forget the horrors that were unleashed in the final days of the Caterpillar War.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 08, 2019, 05:13:46 PM
Arizona:
- There are several State Highways with dirt segments; AZ 88 and 288 come to mine most prominently.
- The original run of State Highways were given numbers consecutive to the original run of US Route which is why there are so many in the 60-99 range.
- State Highways often have child Routes which are three digits akin to 3D Interstates.
- Arizona has two colored shield era; first in the 50s/60s with US Route/State Highway shields and later with the Phoenix Loop Highways. Some signage on the Loop Highways remains in color.
- Arizona probably is the most controlling western state with mountain speed limits. Almost every mountain grade contains an absurd amount of speed limit signs and slow ones at that.
- Arizona has no 3D Interstates.
- Arizona has no tolled State Highways.
- Arizona has a surprisingly large number of hanging ends such as; AZ 99, AZ 238 and AZ 96.
- Arizona has numerous number duplications. AZ 95 and US 95 actually meet in Quartzsite.
- Both I-8 and I-10 borrowed from State Highways (AZ 84 and AZ 86) better alignments through the state over US 80.
- US Routes have State Highway family's. The family routes of US 66 still exist in AZ 266 and AZ 366, they were connected to US 66 by way of US 666.
No AZ State Highways Numbered under 24
AZ 210 does not meet any other Numbered Highway (I, US, AZ)
AZ 95 has 2 disconnected signed segments
AZ 87 has 4 signed sections but all are connected (Mesa & Chandler Maintain The Route thru their cities) (I-10 Eloy to Hunt Highway Chandler, 1/4 Mile N/S @ Loop 202 San Tan Freeway Chandler, 1/4 Mile N/S @ US 60 Superstition Freeway Mesa & Loop 202 Red Mountain Freeway Mesa to AZ 264 Second Mesa, Hopi Nation)
CT:
I-684 passes through Greenwich, is maintained by NYSDOT but is under CT's jurisdiction.
MA: MASSDOT doesn't allow SR/US/Int. number duplicates, with one exception: MA 295 in Berkshire County and I-295 outside Providence.
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 13, 2019, 10:43:10 PM
Black and white circles are spelled out as the default route marker by the MUTCD. They were never in danger of getting "banned"—roadgeeks just don't like states using them because they're bland and uncreative.
If given the choice between the square or the circle, I think I'd choose the latter; squares and rectangles are used for so many other signage purposes.
Quote
In addition to Virginia, MS, IA, KY, NJ, DE, and VT still use the circles in some capacity.
...as well as Puerto Rico's tertiary routes, and the Virgin Islands.
TxDOT seems to have put more effort into their FM & associated "secondary" route field indicators than their decidedly bland square state highway shields. IMO they're long overdue for a redesign -- maybe redo the state highway shields with the state outline but reverse the shading -- white numbers on a black state shape on a white background with "state" above the state outline and "highway" below. Or possibly go "retro" and add some color to the mix.
Quote from: sparker on September 18, 2019, 04:43:00 AM
TxDOT seems to have put more effort into their FM & associated "secondary" route field indicators than their decidedly bland square state highway shields. IMO they're long overdue for a redesign -- maybe redo the state highway shields with the state outline but reverse the shading -- white numbers on a black state shape on a white background with "state" above the state outline and "highway" below. Or possibly go "retro" and add some color to the mix.
Yet the boring square with the state outline tossed in is not all that old. Prior to the rollout of those (was it in the 90's?), state highway shields in TN were the same upside down rounded triangle now used for secondary routes. So the odds aren't good. All that said, I do agree with you. I'm no fan of square state highway shields and find them boring as hell. If worse comes to worse, I even (much) prefer the circle shield to the square. The square is a state DOT's version of mailing it in - and adding some do-dad design to it (which often fades) doesn't help much.
Speaking of which, how awful is the OK meat cleaver? Their signage looked so much better using the simple circle than with that ugly off-centered design.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on September 17, 2019, 07:21:10 PM
MA: MASSDOT doesn't allow SR/US/Int. number duplicates, with one exception: MA 295 in Berkshire County and I-295 outside Providence.
US 3 and MA 3 would like to have a word with you.
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on September 18, 2019, 10:19:03 AM
Speaking of which, how awful is the OK meat cleaver? Their signage looked so much better using the simple circle than with that ugly off-centered design.
It's not Oklahoma's fault that their state has a very asymmetrical shape. Any deviation from the boring circle is an improvement imo.
Quote from: roadman on September 18, 2019, 10:25:45 AM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on September 17, 2019, 07:21:10 PM
MA: MASSDOT doesn't allow SR/US/Int. number duplicates, with one exception: MA 295 in Berkshire County and I-295 outside Providence.
US 3 and MA 3 would like to have a word with you.
That's an extension, not a duplicate. MA doesn't even consider them to be separate roads.
Quote from: roadman on September 18, 2019, 10:25:45 AM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on September 17, 2019, 07:21:10 PM
MA: MASSDOT doesn't allow SR/US/Int. number duplicates, with one exception: MA 295 in Berkshire County and I-295 outside Providence.
US 3 and MA 3 would like to have a word with you.
MASSDOT internally considers both numbers to be MA 3.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on September 18, 2019, 04:50:24 PM
Quote from: roadman on September 18, 2019, 10:25:45 AM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on September 17, 2019, 07:21:10 PM
MA: MASSDOT doesn't allow SR/US/Int. number duplicates, with one exception: MA 295 in Berkshire County and I-295 outside Providence.
US 3 and MA 3 would like to have a word with you.
MASSDOT internally considers both numbers to be MA 3.
Essentially the same thing in CA: e.g. I-110/CA 110, I-15/CA 15, I-210/CA 210 (our own WTF dilemma!), etc. Sometimes the CA state numbers are simply placeholders (ostensibly 15 & 210); CA 110 simply denotes a portion of that particular corridor that is not and will never be Interstate standard.
Don't know if this is what you're looking for, but in New York, I don't think any part of US 1's speed limit is controlled by NYSDOT. In NYC, even while concurrent with I-95, the limit is controlled by NYCDOT. In Westchester, US 1 goes through the villages or cities of Pelham Manor, New Rochelle, Mamaroneck, Rye, and Port Chester. In NYS, villages and cities set the speed limit on all surface roads within its borders. The only town is the town of Mamaroneck (not to be confused with the village) which is legally suburban and can set its own limits.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 08, 2019, 05:13:46 PM
Arizona:
- There are several State Highways with dirt segments; AZ 88 and 288 come to mine most prominently.
AZ 83 was partially dirt (or gravel?) at one time, but I believe it's all paved now. ADOT tried to pave AZ 88 east of Tortilla Flat a couple decades ago, but public opinion killed it.
Quote- The original run of State Highways were given numbers consecutive to the original run of US Route which is why there are so many in the 60-99 range.
US 60 didn't enter Arizona until the early 1930s, but there was no AZ 60 before that, either.
Quote- Arizona has two colored shield era; first in the 50s/60s with US Route/State Highway shields and later with the Phoenix Loop Highways. Some signage on the Loop Highways remains in color.
I think 90% of the Loop signs have been replaced now. The problem with them was fading colors due to the sun and heat. I thought the Feds made ADOT get rid of the colors in the late '60s, same as in Florida years later.
Quote- Arizona has no 3D Interstates.
Not since the mid/late 1960s, when the original section of what is now I-10 between I-17 and Sky Harbor Airport was called I-410 for a couple years, then briefly I-510.
Quote- Arizona has no tolled State Highways.
And we'd like to keep it that way! :)
Quote- Arizona has a surprisingly large number of hanging ends such as; AZ 99, AZ 238 and AZ 96.
AZ 96 originally didn't connect to the rest of the state highway network at all. Before AZ 97 was built to connect it to AZ (now US) 93 which was built after the war, it was a standalone road between Bagdad and Hillside. AZ 210 (Aviation Pkwy) in Tucson is another standalone highway, at least right now.
Those "hanging ends" actually continue as county roads (96, 238) or National Forest roads (99, 288). AZ 83 ends at the entrance to Parker Canyon Lake.
Quote- Arizona has numerous number duplications. AZ 95 and US 95 actually meet in Quartzsite.
AFAIK, 95 is the only duplicated number that still exists. AZ 93 was replaced by US 93 between I-40 and Wickenburg, and discontinued in the rest of the state. Both AZ and US 93 existed before that.
Arizona also has several highways that they maintain but don't sign:
The Sky Harbor spur from the Loop 202 is on the books as AZ 202S.
Main St. in the unincorporated parts of east Mesa is US 60X.
Fain Rd. in Prescott Valley is unsigned AZ 89S (once proposed as AZ 48 but that was never adopted).
Tangerine Rd. in Tucson has a bridge that is still ADOT maintained as AZ 989, but is not signed.
There is one glaring gap that ADOT used to maintain and sign, but they no longer do:
AZ 87, Country Club Dr. in Mesa/Arizona Ave. in Chandler, between McKellips Rd in Mesa and the Chandler/Gila River Indian Community border where AZ 87 and 587 split. Other than at the overpass/ramps over US 60 that have one overhead sign in each direction, these sections of 87 were turned over to those cities years ago. The signs for Arizona Ave. on the Loop 202 Santan Fwy show AZ 87, but once you get off the freeway, no indication of a state highway exists as it's within the city limits of Chandler.
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on September 18, 2019, 10:19:03 AM
Speaking of which, how awful is the OK meat cleaver? Their signage looked so much better using the simple circle than with that ugly off-centered design.
It actually looked worse beforehand, because replacing every state highway shield in the state gave ODOT a chance to more or less standardize the appearance of the shield (though there are a few variants). Before that, shields varied greatly throughout the state in terms of width of digits used, size of letter suffix on secondary routes, and even whether a true oval or a flat-sided capsule shape was used on wide shields.
Quote from: paulthemapguy on September 18, 2019, 10:46:52 AM
It's not Oklahoma's fault that their state has a very asymmetrical shape. Any deviation from the boring circle is an improvement imo.
This is something that is uniquely true for Oklahoma–Indian Territory was basically what was left over when all of the surrounding states were formed. The panhandle, in particular, was land that Texas didn't want for its own panhandle because it was north of the Missouri Compromise line.
Quote from: KeithE4Phx on September 19, 2019, 04:33:19 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 08, 2019, 05:13:46 PM
Arizona:
- There are several State Highways with dirt segments; AZ 88 and 288 come to mine most prominently.
AZ 83 was partially dirt (or gravel?) at one time, but I believe it's all paved now. ADOT tried to pave AZ 88 east of Tortilla Flat a couple decades ago, but public opinion killed it.
Quote- The original run of State Highways were given numbers consecutive to the original run of US Route which is why there are so many in the 60-99 range.
US 60 didn't enter Arizona until the early 1930s, but there was no AZ 60 before that, either.
Quote- Arizona has two colored shield era; first in the 50s/60s with US Route/State Highway shields and later with the Phoenix Loop Highways. Some signage on the Loop Highways remains in color.
I think 90% of the Loop signs have been replaced now. The problem with them was fading colors due to the sun and heat. I thought the Feds made ADOT get rid of the colors in the late '60s, same as in Florida years later.
Quote- Arizona has no 3D Interstates.
Not since the mid/late 1960s, when the original section of what is now I-10 between I-17 and Sky Harbor Airport was called I-410 for a couple years, then briefly I-510.
Quote- Arizona has no tolled State Highways.
And we'd like to keep it that way! :)
Quote- Arizona has a surprisingly large number of hanging ends such as; AZ 99, AZ 238 and AZ 96.
AZ 96 originally didn't connect to the rest of the state highway network at all. Before AZ 97 was built to connect it to AZ (now US) 93 which was built after the war, it was a standalone road between Bagdad and Hillside. AZ 210 (Aviation Pkwy) in Tucson is another standalone highway, at least right now.
Those "hanging ends" actually continue as county roads (96, 238) or National Forest roads (99, 288). AZ 83 ends at the entrance to Parker Canyon Lake.
Quote- Arizona has numerous number duplications. AZ 95 and US 95 actually meet in Quartzsite.
AFAIK, 95 is the only duplicated number that still exists. AZ 93 was replaced by US 93 between I-40 and Wickenburg, and discontinued in the rest of the state. Both AZ and US 93 existed before that.
Arizona also has several highways that they maintain but don't sign:
The Sky Harbor spur from the Loop 202 is on the books as AZ 202S.
Main St. in the unincorporated parts of east Mesa is US 60X.
Fain Rd. in Prescott Valley is unsigned AZ 89S (once proposed as AZ 48 but that was never adopted).
Tangerine Rd. in Tucson has a bridge that is still ADOT maintained as AZ 989, but is not signed.
There is one glaring gap that ADOT used to maintain and sign, but they no longer do:
AZ 87, Country Club Dr. in Mesa/Arizona Ave. in Chandler, between McKellips Rd in Mesa and the Chandler/Gila River Indian Community border where AZ 87 and 587 split. Other than at the overpass/ramps over US 60 that have one overhead sign in each direction, these sections of 87 were turned over to those cities years ago. The signs for Arizona Ave. on the Loop 202 Santan Fwy show AZ 87, but once you get off the freeway, no indication of a state highway exists as it's within the city limits of Chandler.
I want to say that AZ 366 had an unpaved portion near it's western terminus before it becomes a Forest Service Road. Similarly I believe the south terminus of AZ 473 at Hawley Lake was also dirt. I believe you are correct that AZ 83 had a segment of badly eroded asphalt was top layered in gravel.
Regarding US 60, the original intended route was what became US 66. Interestingly AZ 88 was initially planned AZ 66 but got switched when US 66 came to be.
Arizona seems to have always been doing their own thing with the Loop Freeways and under cut the Feds from the process completely. I've often heard rumors the snubs for early 3D Interstates played a large part why the Loop Freeways never were submitted to be part of the system.
AZ 89, AZ 89A and US 89 are all duplicated route numbers...I believe there was once a AZ 89L in Page? US 180 and AZ 180A technically kind of sort of duplicate as well. US 64 and AZ 64 also exist within Arizona.
Wisconsin:
* as noted above - every Interstate except one comes into close proximity or crosses the Illinois state line
* The only state to have triple concurrencies of Interstate routes. 2 to be exact.
* In fact, WI will often have quadruple concurrencies and all be prominent routes - Take the Madison Beltline - 4 US Routes, and Milwaukee having 3 Interstates and 1 US Route on a single freeway - one of which is redundant (I-894)
* One of two states to have a duplication of two route classes on the same road. It also has duplication in different areas - this is thanks to federal legislation.
* no state highways exist under 11 (10 is a US route as are 2 and 8)
* speaking of 8, WI has the dominating mileage of that route, with only small amounts in MN and MI.
* County routes, or rather legally county trunk highways are lettered. some letter patterns reference people or places. (no, this isn't intentionally with HHH).
* Most everyone in WI will call a number route "Highway #(#(#))" and before being replaced with shields on signs - the distance signs used "HWY". (HWY 94, HWY 11, HWY 8, HWY X, etc)
* Why 894 and 794? They must have an agreement with IL and MN.
* WI's two only 3d US routes start and end with a "1"
* WI uses a single sign board for it's "sign salads" - it's not unusual to see giant boards with more than six sets on them.
* WI is not a fan of 36x24 shaped shields outside Interstates (though it eased up for BGSs). All state and US routes use squares. The unusual ones are WI-794 (the Hoan Bridge southern approach) and US-151 (on CTH-PD in Fitchburg)
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 19, 2019, 07:23:38 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on September 18, 2019, 10:46:52 AM
It's not Oklahoma's fault that their state has a very asymmetrical shape. Any deviation from the boring circle is an improvement imo.
This is something that is uniquely true for Oklahoma–Indian Territory was basically what was left over when all of the surrounding states were formed. The panhandle, in particular, was land that Texas didn't want for its own panhandle because it was north of the Missouri Compromise line.
Most states do have an asymmetrical shape. What is Maryland's excuse, for example? Can't imagine anything more asymmetrical! :-|
Quote from: Beltway on September 21, 2019, 09:33:19 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 19, 2019, 07:23:38 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on September 18, 2019, 10:46:52 AM
It's not Oklahoma's fault that their state has a very asymmetrical shape. Any deviation from the boring circle is an improvement imo.
This is something that is uniquely true for Oklahoma—Indian Territory was basically what was left over when all of the surrounding states were formed. The panhandle, in particular, was land that Texas didn't want for its own panhandle because it was north of the Missouri Compromise line.
Most states do have an asymmetrical shape. What is Maryland's excuse, for example? Can't imagine anything more asymmetrical! :-|
Maryland definitely is, although I tend to consider West Virginia as one of the most asymmetrical.
Edit: On further reflection, I think "oddly-shaped" may be a better description than asymmetrical in this case.
Quote from: dlsterner on September 21, 2019, 11:59:26 PM
Quote from: Beltway on September 21, 2019, 09:33:19 AM
Most states do have an asymmetrical shape. What is Maryland's excuse, for example? Can't imagine anything more asymmetrical! :-|
Maryland definitely is, although I tend to consider West Virginia as one of the most asymmetrical.
Edit: On further reflection, I think "oddly-shaped" may be a better description than asymmetrical in this case.
WV is pretty close to symmetrical; the dividing line goes SW-NE.
Quote from: 1 on September 22, 2019, 07:16:35 AM
Quote from: dlsterner on September 21, 2019, 11:59:26 PM
Quote from: Beltway on September 21, 2019, 09:33:19 AM
Most states do have an asymmetrical shape. What is Maryland's excuse, for example? Can't imagine anything more asymmetrical! :-|
Maryland definitely is, although I tend to consider West Virginia as one of the most asymmetrical.
Edit: On further reflection, I think "oddly-shaped" may be a better description than asymmetrical in this case.
WV is pretty close to symmetrical; the dividing line goes SW-NE.
Indeed, hence my edit about "oddly-shaped".
I sometimes wondered if Connecticut's upside down panhandle (lower Fairfield County) was ever considered part of New York state?
The line shown here seems to line up with the current border north of the "panhandle". If this border was originally straight all the way to Long Island Sound, some of each state has switched.
This line is to the west of what I mentioned above by a few miles.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.babcock-acres.com%2FMisceallaneous%2Fconn1636.jpg&hash=eada830fa661e930842fdc0493d083d4d770e58d)
Quote from: Beltway on September 21, 2019, 09:33:19 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 19, 2019, 07:23:38 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on September 18, 2019, 10:46:52 AM
It's not Oklahoma's fault that their state has a very asymmetrical shape. Any deviation from the boring circle is an improvement imo.
This is something that is uniquely true for Oklahoma–Indian Territory was basically what was left over when all of the surrounding states were formed. The panhandle, in particular, was land that Texas didn't want for its own panhandle because it was north of the Missouri Compromise line.
Most states do have an asymmetrical shape. What is Maryland's excuse, for example? Can't imagine anything more asymmetrical! :-|
Maryland's "excuse", so to speak, was that it was caught in the middle between PA, which claimed all the territory north of the Mason-Dixon line (the current & historic E-W state line) and the original VA territory, which extended to the Potomac River. Since the distance between the Mason-Dixon and VA was exceptionally small at the "Hancock Narrows", there wasn't much MD could do without altering the original colonial-era configuration. But the western mostly triangular portion of the state west of the "narrows" was the site of some of the more productive early coal fields, so while a bit unwieldly in terms of the state's physical layout, there was never any chance that MD would give up its western reaches as long as there were resources to extract (which became an even more efficient undertaking in the mid/late 19th century when both the B & O and Western Maryland rail lines tapped those coalfields, with Cumberland as the region's principal collection point). So even though intrastate traffic has to squeeze into a narrow jurisdictional passage (as the combination of I-70 and I-68 does so today), the odd state outline doesn't make for much of an obstacle, commercial-wise.
Quote from: sparker on September 24, 2019, 07:45:56 AM
Quote from: Beltway on September 21, 2019, 09:33:19 AM
Most states do have an asymmetrical shape. What is Maryland's excuse, for example? Can't imagine anything more asymmetrical! :-|
Maryland's "excuse", so to speak, was that it was caught in the middle between PA, which claimed all the territory north of the Mason-Dixon line (the current & historic E-W state line) and the original VA territory, which extended to the Potomac River. Since the distance between the Mason-Dixon and VA was exceptionally small at the "Hancock Narrows", there wasn't much MD could do without altering the original colonial-era configuration. But the western mostly triangular portion of the state west of the "narrows" was the site of some of the more productive early coal fields, so while a bit unwieldly in terms of the state's physical layout, there was never any chance that MD would give up its western reaches as long as there were resources to extract (which became an even more efficient undertaking in the mid/late 19th century when both the B & O and Western Maryland rail lines tapped those coalfields, with Cumberland as the region's principal collection point). So even though intrastate traffic has to squeeze into a narrow jurisdictional passage (as the combination of I-70 and I-68 does so today), the odd state outline doesn't make for much of an obstacle, commercial-wise.
The B&O Railroad reached Cumberland in 1842 and was later extended westward.
Plus the C&O Canal --
The Chesapeake and Ohio Canal, abbreviated as the C&O Canal and occasionally called the "Grand Old Ditch," operated from 1831 until 1924 along the Potomac River from Washington, D.C., to Cumberland, Maryland. The canal's principal cargo was coal from the Allegheny Mountains. [Wikipedia]
Looking at the land only, eastern Virginia and Maryland looks odd, but if rightly considering the Chesapeake Bay as part of the state territory, it doesn't look odd.
Quote from: SSOWorld on September 21, 2019, 09:19:24 AM
Wisconsin:
* One of two states to have a duplication of two route classes on the same road.
There are at least 3 such states; in addition to Wisconsin, you have North Carolina (I-74/US 74) and Georgia (US 23/GA 23).
Quote from: Eth on September 24, 2019, 12:36:42 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on September 21, 2019, 09:19:24 AM
Wisconsin:
* One of two states to have a duplication of two route classes on the same road.
There are at least 3 such states; in addition to Wisconsin, you have North Carolina (I-74/US 74) and Georgia (US 23/GA 23).
And in NC it's about to increase to
three when the initial section of the Winston-Salem bypass opens as NC 74 -- a simple placeholder for eventual I-74 signage.
Washington has a very strict numbering system (with spur routes using the first one or two digits to identify a parent) that hasn't been broken often since it was implemented in 1964. As part of this system, some US highways are assigned "hidden" parent numbers to fit the grid that aren't actually used for anything (as they are legally state routes that match their US number), e.g. SR 29 for US 395 or SR 15 for US 97 (which also has a few child 97Xs).
When US 12 was extended west across Washington in 1967, it took over SR 14 and thus all the parent routes had to change. old SR 121 became SR 141, old SR 141 became SR 121 (and is now severed from US 12)...huge messes just to keep the numbering scheme going.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 15, 2019, 07:44:17 PM
i do, however, remember the Butterfly Crusade. :bigass:
Quote from: thspfc on September 15, 2019, 08:08:29 PM
Oh shoot, not this again.
Quote from: vdeane on September 15, 2019, 08:27:53 PM
We will never forget the horrors that were unleashed in the final days of the Caterpillar War.
. . . must . . . resist . . . satan . . .
Quote from: kphoger on September 24, 2019, 09:05:23 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 15, 2019, 07:44:17 PM
i do, however, remember the Butterfly Crusade. :bigass:
Quote from: thspfc on September 15, 2019, 08:08:29 PM
Oh shoot, not this again.
Quote from: vdeane on September 15, 2019, 08:27:53 PM
We will never forget the horrors that were unleashed in the final days of the Caterpillar War.
. . . must . . . resist . . . satan . . .
Goat Jesus saves.
You're not helping.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 24, 2019, 10:00:57 PM
Quote from: kphoger on September 24, 2019, 09:05:23 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 15, 2019, 07:44:17 PM
i do, however, remember the Butterfly Crusade. :bigass:
Quote from: thspfc on September 15, 2019, 08:08:29 PM
Oh shoot, not this again.
Quote from: vdeane on September 15, 2019, 08:27:53 PM
We will never forget the horrors that were unleashed in the final days of the Caterpillar War.
. . . must . . . resist . . . satan . . .
Goat Jesus saves.
and does not save
Quote from: hbelkins on September 25, 2019, 02:25:46 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 24, 2019, 10:00:57 PM
Quote from: kphoger on September 24, 2019, 09:05:23 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 15, 2019, 07:44:17 PM
i do, however, remember the Butterfly Crusade. :bigass:
Quote from: thspfc on September 15, 2019, 08:08:29 PM
Oh shoot, not this again.
Quote from: vdeane on September 15, 2019, 08:27:53 PM
We will never forget the horrors that were unleashed in the final days of the Caterpillar War.
. . . must . . . resist . . . satan . . .
Goat Jesus saves.
and does not save
Neither does the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Quote from: KEVIN_224 on September 22, 2019, 03:39:37 PM
I sometimes wondered if Connecticut's upside down panhandle (lower Fairfield County) was ever considered part of New York state?
Yes. The panhandle was disputed land, as was a strip 1.81 miles wide stretching the height of Connecticut along the west border of the state north to MA. NY got the strip, CT got the panhandle.
Speaking of New York...
- US Routes were not signed in New York until several years after system was designated
- New York allows suffixed routes, usually along alternate routes or old alignments. US 9 currently has 10 suffixed state routes and 1 suffixed US route.
- NY allows route number duplication. Normally, US and NY routes are separate, but there are currently two exceptions: US/NY 2 and US/NY 15. Officially, US 2 is designated Route 2U. NY 15 is the former north end of US 15.
- The internal designation for all Interstates is the route number with an I as the suffix (i.e. 95I, 87I, etc.)
- Interstate and NY 90 cross each other west of Syracuse, but without an interchange
- Unsigned Interstate 878 in Queens is the only Interstate existing in only one direction
- NY has a robust system of car-only freeways ("parkways"), mostly in the NYC metro area
- When construction is completed next year, Interstate 587 in Kingston will be the only Interstate to have both termini at roundabouts
- NYCDOT
maintains (but does not necessarily
own) all free roads within New York City limits that are not airport access roads, including Interstates. I-695 in the Bronx and I-878 are thus the only Interstates that are 100% city-maintained.
- NY 3 and NY 28 each change signed direction twice along their routes. Several other routes change signed direction once, including NY 7 and NY 17
- NY 431 is the highest state-numbered route in the northeastern United States in terms of elevation, topping out at around 4,600 feet
- Interstate 278 is the only route to enter all 5 boroughs of New York City
- NY 171 east of Utica is the only route with no direct connection to the rest of the state highway system