I was zooming around Google Earth, as I often am, and discovered that a relatively major intersection near the Port of Tacoma (in Washington State) was reconfigured in the 1990s so that the T-intersection no longer Tee'd Marine View Drive. Instead, Norpoint Way (coming down the hill) now Tee's at Marine View Drive, with a very U-turn-ish look:
https://goo.gl/maps/jRSrMLef5SwT74Bm6
(https://i.imgur.com/u1kGWs5.png)
Question for readers: Can you think of examples near you, where an intersection was totally reconfigured so that, even with an equal number of lanes, the operation was now totally different than before? I'm not thinking of things like roundabouts or flyovers. Just changes at sea level. Although I won't preclude either, if you think it's worth mentioning!
As another example, the straight up/down intersection in the right image slowly became the most popular maneuver. Eventually, the regular four-way intersection was eliminated, and replaced by two three-way T-intersections:
https://goo.gl/maps/R7HYRkFBFTeEPGv86
(https://i.imgur.com/FCCDiN2.png)
One that comes to mind is the junction of AZ 85/86 in Why. The original configuration was a Y (hence the name of the community) but it has been modified twice into a curved junction. All three alignments are plainly visible on Google Maps. Incidentally the name of the community was changed to "Why" when the legislature decided inhabited places needed to have at least three letters.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 10, 2019, 07:27:51 AM
One that comes to mind is the junction of AZ 85/86 in Why. The original configuration was a Y (hence the name of the community) but it has been modified twice into a curved junction. All three alignments are plainly visible on Google Maps. Incidentally the name of the community was changed to "Why" when the legislature decided inhabited places needed to have at least three letters.
I checked it out on historic aerials. Definitely some major modifications. Looks like AZ-85 was the more popular through movement?
Quote from: jakeroot on September 10, 2019, 01:37:32 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 10, 2019, 07:27:51 AM
One that comes to mind is the junction of AZ 85/86 in Why. The original configuration was a Y (hence the name of the community) but it has been modified twice into a curved junction. All three alignments are plainly visible on Google Maps. Incidentally the name of the community was changed to "Why" when the legislature decided inhabited places needed to have at least three letters.
Definitely, AZ 85 gets way more through traffic especially since a lot of Phoenix area residents use it's the primary through route to Rocky Point over the Mexican Border. AZ 86 is very lightly traveled eastward almost all the way to Tucson...and probably has the most Border Patrol vehicle of any State Highway I've ever driven.
I checked it out on historic aerials. Definitely some major modifications. Looks like AZ-85 was the more popular through movement?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 10, 2019, 01:44:28 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on September 10, 2019, 01:37:32 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 10, 2019, 07:27:51 AM
One that comes to mind is the junction of AZ 85/86 in Why. The original configuration was a Y (hence the name of the community) but it has been modified twice into a curved junction. All three alignments are plainly visible on Google Maps. Incidentally the name of the community was changed to "Why" when the legislature decided inhabited places needed to have at least three letters.
I checked it out on historic aerials. Definitely some major modifications. Looks like AZ-85 was the more popular through movement?
Definitely, AZ 85 gets way more through traffic especially since a lot of Phoenix area residents use it's the primary through route to Rocky Point over the Mexican Border. AZ 86 is very lightly traveled eastward almost all the way to Tucson...and probably has the most Border Patrol vehicle of any State Highway I've ever driven.
I'm guessing it wasn't always this way? The old Y-junction appears to favor the 85 to 86 movement.
This particular facet is what really makes this thread possible: how traffic patterns can change over time to favor a totally different movement through an intersection.
In my first image above, the traffic pattern used to do one thing in the area, but when a major bridge closed and a new freeway opened, suddenly traffic was going a totally different direction (black circle denotes junction location), warranting a redesign of the intersection:
(https://i.imgur.com/9p0Cx9U.png)
First thing that came to mind was the Bluff St/Sunset Blvd/Diagonal St/Valley View Dr intersections (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.1240704,-113.6000289,555m/data=!3m1!1e3) in St George, Utah, which has gone through a complex series of modifications.
Based on Historic Aerials, it looks like the original setup was a direct curve from Sunset into southbound Bluff, reflecting US 91's alignment on those roads. Bluff Street came off to the north at an angle, while Diagonal came in from the southeast, crossing Bluff and Sunset before turning southwest to connect into what is now Valley View Drive. However, Historic Aerials only goes back to 1950, and based on the alignments I wouldn't be surprised if Diagonal and Sunset were once a single road that carried US 91.
Anyway, around 1970 the intersection was split up: Valley View was shifted slightly to the north to end directly at Sunset, while the connections to Diagonal from Sunset and Valley View were removed.
The intersection got a major modification in the 1980s (after US 91 was removed from southern Utah), when Bluff Street was realigned to be the through movement with a signalized seagull intersection at Sunset. Diagonal became essentially a RIRO off of northbound Bluff, and the Valley View-Sunset intersection was moved even further west. However, this was partially undone in 2018, when the Sunset-southbound Bluff corridor once again became the through route.
The intersection of Gallows Road and US-50 (Arlington Boulevard) in Northern Virginia (https://goo.gl/maps/rPPoiaDoM4Pb3feu6) was an ordinary, though busy, crossroads in the 1970s when I lived nearby. At some point they added a slip lane for right turns from northbound Gallows to eastbound 50 because that movement was very busy due to Beltway access (at the time, Gallows had only a half-interchange with the Beltway to the south, so if you wanted to go north towards Maryland you had to go to Route 50). In the mid-1980s, they rebuilt it into the SPUI that's still there today. It was a major construction project at the time.
I'm typing this on my phone, so I won't try to link Historic Aerials.
Quote from: jakeroot on September 10, 2019, 03:07:22 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 10, 2019, 01:44:28 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on September 10, 2019, 01:37:32 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 10, 2019, 07:27:51 AM
One that comes to mind is the junction of AZ 85/86 in Why. The original configuration was a Y (hence the name of the community) but it has been modified twice into a curved junction. All three alignments are plainly visible on Google Maps. Incidentally the name of the community was changed to "Why" when the legislature decided inhabited places needed to have at least three letters.
I checked it out on historic aerials. Definitely some major modifications. Looks like AZ-85 was the more popular through movement?
Definitely, AZ 85 gets way more through traffic especially since a lot of Phoenix area residents use it's the primary through route to Rocky Point over the Mexican Border. AZ 86 is very lightly traveled eastward almost all the way to Tucson...and probably has the most Border Patrol vehicle of any State Highway I've ever driven.
I'm guessing it wasn't always this way? The old Y-junction appears to favor the 85 to 86 movement.
I know AZ 85 was there first because of the mines in Ajo. I would assume back in the old days that getting haul to Tucson as fast possible was the priority. I'm fairly certain that was one of the driving forces behind getting AZ 86 west of Tucson in the first place.
Quote from: US 89 on September 10, 2019, 03:39:40 PM
First thing that came to mind was the Bluff St/Sunset Blvd/Diagonal St/Valley View Dr intersections (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.1240704,-113.6000289,555m/data=!3m1!1e3) in St George, Utah, which has gone through a complex series of modifications.
Based on Historic Aerials, it looks like the original setup was a direct curve from Sunset into southbound Bluff, reflecting US 91's alignment on those roads. Bluff Street came off to the north at an angle, while Diagonal came in from the southeast, crossing Bluff and Sunset before turning southwest to connect into what is now Valley View Drive. However, Historic Aerials only goes back to 1950, and based on the alignments I wouldn't be surprised if Diagonal and Sunset were once a single road that carried US 91.
Anyway, around 1970 the intersection was split up: Valley View was shifted slightly to the north to end directly at Sunset, while the connections to Diagonal from Sunset and Valley View were removed.
The intersection got a major modification in the 1980s (after US 91 was removed from southern Utah), when Bluff Street was realigned to be the through movement with a signalized seagull intersection at Sunset. Diagonal became essentially a RIRO off of northbound Bluff, and the Valley View-Sunset intersection was moved even further west. However, this was partially undone in 2018, when the Sunset-southbound Bluff corridor once again became the through route.
Damn, now that's an impressive set of changes! Amazing to think the patterns in the area have changed that frequently. It's understandable to me how a T-intersection, in particular, can be realigned to adjust to changing patterns. My original post, for example. But to then have it changed back, after however many years, seems quite funny to me.
Side-note: I am further and further-more blown away by Utah, and their seemingly-endless cash flow, allowing them to build some really impressive stuff. Apparently over and over!
I had actually marked that intersection on Google Maps as featuring a rare double-right-turn without any merge or signal. Guess I get to remove it now...
(https://i.imgur.com/fUTcH8G.png)
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 10, 2019, 03:52:33 PM
The intersection of Gallows Road and US-50 (Arlington Boulevard) in Northern Virginia (https://goo.gl/maps/rPPoiaDoM4Pb3feu6) was an ordinary, though busy, crossroads in the 1970s when I lived nearby. At some point they added a slip lane for right turns from northbound Gallows to eastbound 50 because that movement was very busy due to Beltway access (at the time, Gallows had only a half-interchange with the Beltway to the south, so if you wanted to go north towards Maryland you had to go to Route 50). In the mid-1980s, they rebuilt it into the SPUI that's still there today. It was a major construction project at the time.
I'm typing this on my phone, so I won't try to link Historic Aerials.
When you first posted this, and I opened the link, I originally thought it was this SPUI off I-66 and Lee Highway (https://goo.gl/maps/G1ryzfnaVzi7p91VA); the example at Lee Highway being one of the few SPUIs I've been on that was not part of a freeway. But although your example is closer to Arlington, I have not driven through it. Nevertheless, I think junctions like this make sense, especially when adjacent to a large service interchange.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 10, 2019, 04:51:56 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on September 10, 2019, 03:07:22 PM
I'm guessing it wasn't always this way? The old Y-junction appears to favor the 85 to 86 movement.
I know AZ 85 was there first because of the mines in Ajo. I would assume back in the old days that getting haul to Tucson as fast possible was the priority. I'm fairly certain that was one of the driving forces behind getting AZ 86 west of Tucson in the first place.
Good bit of history.
Quote from: jakeroot on September 10, 2019, 05:20:21 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 10, 2019, 03:52:33 PM
The intersection of Gallows Road and US-50 (Arlington Boulevard) in Northern Virginia (https://goo.gl/maps/rPPoiaDoM4Pb3feu6) was an ordinary, though busy, crossroads in the 1970s when I lived nearby. At some point they added a slip lane for right turns from northbound Gallows to eastbound 50 because that movement was very busy due to Beltway access (at the time, Gallows had only a half-interchange with the Beltway to the south, so if you wanted to go north towards Maryland you had to go to Route 50). In the mid-1980s, they rebuilt it into the SPUI that's still there today. It was a major construction project at the time.
I'm typing this on my phone, so I won't try to link Historic Aerials.
When you first posted this, and I opened the link, I originally thought it was this SPUI off I-6466 and Lee Highway (https://goo.gl/maps/G1ryzfnaVzi7p91VA); the example at Lee Highway being one of the few SPUIs I've been on that was not part of a freeway. But although your example is closer to Arlington, I have not driven through it. Nevertheless, I think junctions like this make sense, especially when adjacent to a large service interchange.
....
Boldface denotes typo fix. I was definitely not thinking of Gainesville, although that was quite a big project too. The focus there was more on eliminating an at-grade railroad crossing than it was on modifying an intersection, which is one reason why I didn't think of it. But now that you bring it up, the Gainesville project did remind me in many ways of the Gallows Road/US-50 project. Gallows and 50 is the first SPUI I can recall seeing, though it was many years later before I heard or saw that term.
Funny, my mom and I had dinner Sunday night at a restaurant located immediately adjacent to the Gallows/50 interchange and we were remembering when it was rebuilt.
Quote from: jakeroot on September 10, 2019, 05:16:31 PM
Damn, now that's an impressive set of changes! Amazing to think the patterns in the area have changed that frequently. It's understandable to me how a T-intersection, in particular, can be realigned to adjust to changing patterns. My original post, for example. But to then have it changed back, after however many years, seems quite funny to me.
The original configuration made sense, as the primary traffic flow by far was US 91. After I-15 had been completed through the Virgin River Gorge, planners probably figured SR 18 would be the main through road.
What planners in 1980 didn't realize was that St George was about to begin a huge population explosion, a lot of it centered in the Santa Clara and Ivins area. Eventually that got to the point where Sunset-Bluff was again the majority movement, but for a completely different reason: now instead of long distance traffic, it's all local. According to the most recent data I could find, this is now the sixth busiest intersection in Utah and the busiest outside the Wasatch Front.
Quote from: jakeroot on September 10, 2019, 05:16:31 PM
Side-note: I am further and further-more blown away by Utah, and their seemingly-endless cash flow, allowing them to build some really impressive stuff. Apparently over and over!
Funny you mention that - the result of the recent project was actually watered down significantly from the original proposal, which would have put a full freeway interchange here with Sunset-Bluff as the freeway. They did keep the pedestrian tunnels from the initial plans, though.
Quote from: jakeroot on September 10, 2019, 05:16:31 PM
I had actually marked that intersection on Google Maps as featuring a rare double-right-turn without any merge or signal. Guess I get to remove it now...
snipped image
Heh, I never noticed that because I was always more interested in the triple left turn from Bluff northbound to Sunset. That triple left disappeared in the reconstruction, but the new configuration has a new one on southbound Bluff.
Quote from: jakeroot on September 10, 2019, 05:16:31 PM
I had actually marked that intersection on Google Maps as featuring a rare double-right-turn without any merge or signal. Guess I get to remove it now...
Here's an interesting intersection off Greenbrier Pkwy in Chesapeake, VA that features the double-right-turn movement w/ no traffic control devices - https://www.google.com/maps/@36.7791737,-76.231543,224m/data=!3m1!1e3
Also, just south of that location is an exit from Greenbrier Mall which features a double right turn simply controlled by a stop sign. From my experience though, people tend to manage it and maintain lanes properly.
Look at this intersection in Beltsville, MD:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Beltsville,+MD/@39.0510555,-76.9264376,17z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x89b7c375724da991:0x675f88e616c0377b!8m2!3d39.0348317!4d-76.9074739
Powder Mill/Old Gunpowder/Ammendale.
The original configuration was to have Powder Mill as one road. (i.e. Powder Mill over I-95 directly connected to Powder Mill to the east.) 34th Place directly connected to Old Gunpowder. And Ammendale ended at Old Gunpowder at a T-intersection.
With the development of Konterra, (where current MD 212 meets US 1) and the MD-200 toll road which of course aided development as well , the DOT determined that this was the main flow of traffic. It helps to provide Konterra with an extra access to I-95. So two intersections got brought into one and correctly accounts for the traffic. What is also interesting is that MD 212 was moved (east of this intersection) from Powder Mill to Ammendale.
I don't live too close, but I've seen this project taking place over the past few years. It is helpful that Ammendale was always wide, whereas Powder Mill was only 1 lane in each direction and was often backed up. This intersection reconstruction improved a lot of area traffic.
Quote from: mrsman on September 11, 2019, 10:34:09 PM
Look at this intersection in Beltsville, MD:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Beltsville,+MD/@39.0510555,-76.9264376,17z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x89b7c375724da991:0x675f88e616c0377b!8m2!3d39.0348317!4d-76.9074739
Powder Mill/Old Gunpowder/Ammendale.
The original configuration was to have Powder Mill as one road. (i.e. Powder Mill over I-95 directly connected to Powder Mill to the east.) 34th Place directly connected to Old Gunpowder. And Ammendale ended at Old Gunpowder at a T-intersection.
With the development of Konterra, (where current MD 212 meets US 1) and the MD-200 toll road which of course aided development as well , the DOT determined that this was the main flow of traffic. It helps to provide Konterra with an extra access to I-95. So two intersections got brought into one and correctly accounts for the traffic. What is also interesting is that MD 212 was moved (east of this intersection) from Powder Mill to Ammendale.
I don't live too close, but I've seen this project taking place over the past few years. It is helpful that Ammendale was always wide, whereas Powder Mill was only 1 lane in each direction and was often backed up. This intersection reconstruction improved a lot of area traffic.
I went onto historic aerials to check out some of the past construction. Definitely a candidate for this thread!
It's strange, looking at satellite view, the curve that MD-212 makes after it crosses over 95 going east; definitely not a natural curve, as it ties into Ammendale Road (since, of course, it was reconstructed to make that curve). I suppose the average Joe, perhaps unfamiliar with the past construction, might also wonder why Powder Mill Road makes such a strange jog at that intersection. Of course we know why, but sometimes I wonder if renaming one of the roads might be better in this scenario? According to Google Maps, Powder Mill Road is still the name of the old road, so it
technically intersects itself (https://goo.gl/maps/G4ukubvQAX7hqAZu6) just to the south of the new 4-way junction. Bizarre!
Quote from: jakeroot on September 14, 2019, 06:44:41 PM
Quote from: mrsman on September 11, 2019, 10:34:09 PM
Look at this intersection in Beltsville, MD:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Beltsville,+MD/@39.0510555,-76.9264376,17z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x89b7c375724da991:0x675f88e616c0377b!8m2!3d39.0348317!4d-76.9074739
Powder Mill/Old Gunpowder/Ammendale.
The original configuration was to have Powder Mill as one road. (i.e. Powder Mill over I-95 directly connected to Powder Mill to the east.) 34th Place directly connected to Old Gunpowder. And Ammendale ended at Old Gunpowder at a T-intersection.
With the development of Konterra, (where current MD 212 meets US 1) and the MD-200 toll road which of course aided development as well , the DOT determined that this was the main flow of traffic. It helps to provide Konterra with an extra access to I-95. So two intersections got brought into one and correctly accounts for the traffic. What is also interesting is that MD 212 was moved (east of this intersection) from Powder Mill to Ammendale.
I don't live too close, but I've seen this project taking place over the past few years. It is helpful that Ammendale was always wide, whereas Powder Mill was only 1 lane in each direction and was often backed up. This intersection reconstruction improved a lot of area traffic.
I went onto historic aerials to check out some of the past construction. Definitely a candidate for this thread!
It's strange, looking at satellite view, the curve that MD-212 makes after it crosses over 95 going east; definitely not a natural curve, as it ties into Ammendale Road (since, of course, it was reconstructed to make that curve). I suppose the average Joe, perhaps unfamiliar with the past construction, might also wonder why Powder Mill Road makes such a strange jog at that intersection. Of course we know why, but sometimes I wonder if renaming one of the roads might be better in this scenario? According to Google Maps, Powder Mill Road is still the name of the old road, so it technically intersects itself (https://goo.gl/maps/G4ukubvQAX7hqAZu6) just to the south of the new 4-way junction. Bizarre!
I think the old names were kept, so that few addresses would have to be changed. People really hate having to tell all their friends and colleauges about a new address, especially if they never moved.
I guess to make it simpler, they could have Old Gunpowder as the N-S street in the intersection, with a sign suggesting to Powder Mill Road, to reach those houses. But other than for the few houses in the immediate area, it is not really confusing. Powder Mill turns, but the vast majority of traffic is happy to continue on a wider street (Ammendale) to reach US 1.
Quote from: jakeroot on September 14, 2019, 06:44:41 PM
I suppose the average Joe, perhaps unfamiliar with the past construction, might also wonder why Powder Mill Road makes such a strange jog at that intersection. Of course we know why, but sometimes I wonder if renaming one of the roads might be better in this scenario? According to Google Maps, Powder Mill Road is still the name of the old road, so it technically intersects itself (https://goo.gl/maps/G4ukubvQAX7hqAZu6) just to the south of the new 4-way junction. Bizarre!
It's not too bizarre, roads changing names at turns isn't uncommon, at least where I'm at.
Quote from: sprjus4 on September 15, 2019, 04:05:00 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on September 14, 2019, 06:44:41 PM
I suppose the average Joe, perhaps unfamiliar with the past construction, might also wonder why Powder Mill Road makes such a strange jog at that intersection. Of course we know why, but sometimes I wonder if renaming one of the roads might be better in this scenario? According to Google Maps, Powder Mill Road is still the name of the old road, so it technically intersects itself (https://goo.gl/maps/G4ukubvQAX7hqAZu6) just to the south of the new 4-way junction. Bizarre!
It's not too bizarre, roads changing names at turns isn't uncommon, at least where I'm at.
Road names do turn, yes, but they very seldom have a side-street off themselves with the same name. That old section of Powder Mill is signed as "Powder Mill Road 4100-4200".
Quote from: jakeroot on September 15, 2019, 06:20:55 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on September 15, 2019, 04:05:00 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on September 14, 2019, 06:44:41 PM
I suppose the average Joe, perhaps unfamiliar with the past construction, might also wonder why Powder Mill Road makes such a strange jog at that intersection. Of course we know why, but sometimes I wonder if renaming one of the roads might be better in this scenario? According to Google Maps, Powder Mill Road is still the name of the old road, so it technically intersects itself (https://goo.gl/maps/G4ukubvQAX7hqAZu6) just to the south of the new 4-way junction. Bizarre!
It's not too bizarre, roads changing names at turns isn't uncommon, at least where I'm at.
Road names do turn, yes, but they very seldom have a side-street off themselves with the same name. That old section of Powder Mill is signed as "Powder Mill Road 4100-4200".
I'm actually surprised they didn't change the name somehow to distinguish the two for clarity (e.g. E911 purposes), such as "Old Powder Mill Road" or "Powder Mill Drive".
Here's another one: Isleta Blvd/Arenal Rd/Goff Blvd (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.0534597,-106.6772985,301m/data=!3m1!1e3) in Albuquerque.
As you might guess, in the original configuration the through route was Isleta, which carried US 85. The major intersection was Isleta/Arenal, but access across Isleta was not possible (see 1981 historic aerials (https://www.historicaerials.com/location/35.05362873583296/-106.67682414570655/1981/18)). Meanwhile, Goff Blvd split from Arenal at a much smaller intersection just west of Isleta.
In the 1980s, after I-25 had been built in the area and US 85 was no longer a major through route, this intersection received a significant overhaul. The Arenal-Isleta junction was moved west to Goff to create a new 4-way intersection, while access to eastbound Arenal was restricted to a small offramp from northbound Isleta. The main access to the eastern segment of Arenal Road is now done through Montrose Place, a small connector road just to the east.
Quote from: US 89 on September 16, 2019, 05:45:30 PM
Here's another one: Isleta Blvd/Arenal Rd/Goff Blvd (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.0534597,-106.6772985,301m/data=!3m1!1e3) in Albuquerque.
As you might guess, in the original configuration the through route was Isleta, which carried US 85. The major intersection was Isleta/Arenal, but access across Isleta was not possible (see 1981 historic aerials (https://www.historicaerials.com/location/35.05362873583296/-106.67682414570655/1981/18)). Meanwhile, Goff Blvd split from Arenal at a much smaller intersection just west of Isleta.
In the 1980s, after I-25 had been built in the area and US 85 was no longer a major through route, this intersection received a significant overhaul. The Arenal-Isleta junction was moved west to Goff to create a new 4-way intersection, while access to eastbound Arenal was restricted to a small offramp from northbound Isleta. The main access to the eastern segment of Arenal Road is now done through Montrose Place, a small connector road just to the east.
Logical rerouting for sure. Seems that stuff like this would be particularly common after new freeway construction. My first example was rebuilt the way it was after a freeway rerouted a bunch of traffic.
That signal is rather interesting... the southbound left turn is a "yield on green" setup, but the oncoming double right turn (that occurs via the slip lane) has two green arrows...
who has the right of way? Disregard. The double right turn is red during the through phase, to account for this. Very interesting!
Here's another one, Culver and Washington in Culver City, CA.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/10000+Washington+Blvd,+Culver+City,+CA+90232/@34.0232079,-118.3968862,17z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x80c2ba28c8ab1ea3:0x79352b07fd8d2461!8m2!3d34.0207047!4d-118.3980664
Culver City sits at the intersection of three old Red Car (Pacific Electric interurban railway) lines. There were railways along Venice Blvd, Exposition Blvd, and Culver Blvd. Culver and Venice eventually became wide streets utilizing the ROW. Exposition is a wide street in South LA, but is really only an intermittent street in this area. The ROW along Exposition is currently used for an MTA light rail line.
Washington Blvd is parallel to Venice. Originally, Washington just went straight across the RR tracks. Then, it went straight across Culver with the RR tracks in the middle of Culver. Eventually, it was decided to reorient the intersection so that Washington met with Culver in two locations, and that Washington's traffic would essentially merge into Culver. Because Culver had the RR tracks, it stayed straight, and Washington was made to adjust (even though Washington is far busier and longer, especially east of the intersection -- Washington went all the way to Downtown LA and Culver ended at Venice only 4 blocks further).
[This was akin to how the Washington DC area treated the intersection of Constitution and Pennsylvania. It is probably a good way of dealing with an intersection of two busy streets at a very acute angle.]
https://www.google.com/maps/place/400+Pennsylvania+Ave+NW,+Washington,+DC+20565/@38.8912904,-77.0204147,899m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89b7b785c7bb7cd7:0xbe2e7057cc933811!8m2!3d38.8919543!4d-77.0176784
Up until the 1990's, even though other intersections along both Culver and Washington had traffic signals, the left turn from Washington to Culver was accomplished by means of facing a stop sign. To some extent, the intersection had a bit of a free for all feel to it, somewhat akin to a roundabout. Traffic along Culver would be stopped at some traffic signal, and that would be the opportunity for traffic along washington to make the left turn, or at least to wait in Culver's wide median for the opportunity to complete the turn. [I think the pendulum has gone too far the other way, since it now seems that every little intersection has some kind of traffic signal, making the movement of traffic through this area somewhat tough.]
Eventually, this got sorted out and traffic signals were installed. The western intersection, other than the traffic signals, remained as it was. The eastern approach to Washington was pedestrianized and the traffic was directed to intersect with Culver at Main. (Main, the shortest Main street in LA County, originally existed from Washington to the alley south of Venice - which marked the city line with L.A. and the street was named Bagley Ave. Washington's traffic took over the block of Main between Culver and Washington.
But now more recently, things have changed again. Due to new development, Main now ends at Culver and Washington's traffic took over the ROW from Ince Blvd and now intersects with Culver even further east.
So, what was once a direct intersection between Culver and Washington has now been separated by a distance of about 1/4 mile into two totally separate intersections.
^^
Interesting. The current curve in Washington, where it intersects with Ince Blvd, definitely doesn't look natural. Obviously because it's not, but not until the end of your post did I realize that this was the second realignment of Washington. Nuts that a development can get an entire road rerouted, especially one as important as Washington Blvd.
Do you know of any photos of that old intersection with the stop signs? I love seeing old intersections like that with bizarre layouts, but they're obviously rarer and rarer.
Quite a few around the Rochester area.
NY 33A (Chili Avenue)/NY 386 (Chili Coldwater Road)/former NY 252A (Paul Road) (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1080164,-77.7480969,1385m/data=!3m1!1e3); Paul Road was realigned to break the intersection into two (original (https://www.historicaerials.com/location/43.108064100347335/-77.74567365646364/map/15))
Northern end of NY 590/Sea Breeze Drive (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2340418,-77.5396696,509m/data=!3m1!1e3); the parking lot on the right with the cul de sac follows the old alignment (may be more of a realignment than something for this thread, though; the operation is largely the same, just moved)
Dewey Avenue/Driving Park Avenue (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1809797,-77.6398551,354m/data=!3m1!1e3); originally, both sections of Dewey met Driving Park at T intersections, but the city realigned the north end by demolishing a dollar store (it's recent enough the show up in historic street view)
NY 404 (Ridge Road)/Hard Road/Shoecraft Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2080511,-77.4623824,366m/data=!3m1!1e3) is actually hard to tell it was another way, because of all the development (original/under construction (https://www.historicaerials.com/location/43.20797542805683/-77.4619147932361/2002/17))
Quote from: vdeane on September 21, 2019, 10:05:59 PM
Quite a few around the Rochester area.
NY 33A (Chili Avenue)/NY 386 (Chili Coldwater Road)/former NY 252A (Paul Road) (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1080164,-77.7480969,1385m/data=!3m1!1e3); Paul Road was realigned to break the intersection into two (original (https://www.historicaerials.com/location/43.108064100347335/-77.74567365646364/map/15))
Northern end of NY 590/Sea Breeze Drive (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2340418,-77.5396696,509m/data=!3m1!1e3); the parking lot on the right with the cul de sac follows the old alignment (may be more of a realignment than something for this thread, though; the operation is largely the same, just moved)
Dewey Avenue/Driving Park Avenue (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1809797,-77.6398551,354m/data=!3m1!1e3); originally, both sections of Dewey met Driving Park at T intersections, but the city realigned the north end by demolishing a dollar store (it's recent enough the show up in historic street view)
NY 404 (Ridge Road)/Hard Road/Shoecraft Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2080511,-77.4623824,366m/data=!3m1!1e3) is actually hard to tell it was another way, because of all the development (original/under construction (https://www.historicaerials.com/location/43.20797542805683/-77.4619147932361/2002/17))
This is a particularly interesting intersection to me. Operationally, having a four-way intersection makes a lot more sense (although there are exceptions, such as my second post in this thread). But the amount of developable land around that intersection has really been diminished by that new road. Maybe a gas station could squeeze in on the NW corner, and with that slip lane (strange angle on that slip lane, btw), I don't think anything could go in the NE corner. For all I know, the last thing this area needs is more undeveloped land, although my instinct would be to minimize ROW usage in urban areas.
It seems like it's a project that was a long time coming. I wonder why the roads were set up that way?
https://spectrumlocalnews.com/tx/austin/top-stories/2017/07/5/dewey-avenue-and-driving-park
https://www.cityofrochester.gov/article.aspx?id=8589971291
Quote from: vdeane on September 22, 2019, 08:27:16 PM
It seems like it's a project that was a long time coming. I wonder why the roads were set up that way?
https://spectrumlocalnews.com/tx/austin/top-stories/2017/07/5/dewey-avenue-and-driving-park
https://www.cityofrochester.gov/article.aspx?id=8589971291
There was some similar reconstruction in my area, although it involved building an entirely new road. A large strip mall, which originally ran north-south for about six solid blocks with only one stopping point (where the new road runs), was broken up about six years ago
by a new arterial (https://goo.gl/maps/9YGQiiMErqszSa3L9). They had to demolish a bank to build the road, but the new road did provide new opportunities for commercial development to the east. The road configuration shown in your link probably improved traffic flow, although any chance of redevelopment at this corner seems pretty-well unlikely at this point.
Lafayette, LA, has quite a few examples of building a new roadway to make two separate roads connect at a four-way:
* Bayou Pkwy/Feu Follet at Kaliste Saloom Rd. (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lafayette,+LA/@30.1829491,-92.0174661,17z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x86249c4364c5d89b:0xc94a752492f7ff13!8m2!3d30.2240897!4d-92.0198427)
* Verot School at Pinhook (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lafayette,+LA/@30.1764847,-92.0052782,17z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x86249c4364c5d89b:0xc94a752492f7ff13!8m2!3d30.2240897!4d-92.0198427) (this was originally two separate junctions for Verot School; the old road is now named Aymar)
More apropos to the OP:
Guilbeau Rd/Camilia Blvd at Johnston (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lafayette,+LA/@30.1938365,-92.0588794,18z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x86249c4364c5d89b:0xc94a752492f7ff13!8m2!3d30.2240897!4d-92.0198427): Looks like Frier Rd was the original alignment of Guilbeau Rd. When this intersection was redone as a continuous-flow intersection, Frier was commandeered for the left-turn lanes of Guilbeau onto Johnston (or straight through to Rena).
US 90 at LA 182 in Broussard (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lafayette,+LA/@30.1347204,-91.9470528,16z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x86249c4364c5d89b:0xc94a752492f7ff13!8m2!3d30.2240897!4d-92.0198427): This interchange was reconfigured during recent work in which the intersection with Albertson Pkwy. and St. Nazaire Road is now grade-separated.
Bertrand Drive "split" at Billeaud/Dulles (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lafayette,+LA/@30.2239049,-92.0538637,17z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x86249c4364c5d89b:0xc94a752492f7ff13!8m2!3d30.2240897!4d-92.0198427l): The original alignment (still numbered LA 3025) goes to the east. The alignment to the west (LA 3184) is a boulevard connecting to Ambassador Caffery to I-10. Later, the city reconfigured the intersection to line up Billeaud and Dulles, and in the process removed the old eastward branch of Bertrand, turning that intersection into a T. (Lagniappe: Just north, at the intersection of westward Bertrand and Eraste Landry, you can see a street that is broken in two and a cul-de-sac that used to empty to Eraste Landry.
For whatever strange reason, L.A. was laid out with a lot of broken grids. As in the previous examples, this means that a cross street is slightly askew as it crosses the main street, essentially meeting the main street in two intersections (2 T intersections). Traffic on the side streets certainly move better if it was formed as a simple 4-way intersection instead, and in some cases property was acquired to make that happen.
These all occurred a long time ago, but it is somewhat clear how the intersection was modified.
Santa Monica @ Gardner/Vista.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Los+Angeles,+CA/@34.0906127,-118.3530074,119m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x80c2c75ddc27da13:0xe22fdf6f254608f4!8m2!3d34.0522342!4d-118.2436849
Every N-S street in this area seems to shift about 1/32 mile to the east as it crosses SM. Originally Gardner and Vista did as well. Then, the northern part of Gardner was connected to the southern part of Vista (and Gardner-Vista widened to be significnatly wider than parallel streets) to create what now exists.
Pico @ Fairfax is also similar
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Los+Angeles,+CA/@34.0510373,-118.3665338,476m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x80c2c75ddc27da13:0xe22fdf6f254608f4!8m2!3d34.0522342!4d-118.2436849
Gage does it twice at both Vermont and Hoover:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/6400+S+Vermont+Ave,+Los+Angeles,+CA+90044/@33.9814043,-118.291863,958m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x80c2c82ef0619db7:0x97efa680d8846365!8m2!3d33.9808754!4d-118.2912718
Van Ness / Arlington does it too near Slauson:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/6400+S+Vermont+Ave,+Los+Angeles,+CA+90044/@33.9904266,-118.3171797,959m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x80c2c82ef0619db7:0x97efa680d8846365!8m2!3d33.9808754!4d-118.2912718
[Again, these were very old realignments. The ones that I mentioned in earlier threads occurred in my lifetime and I remember the progress. These probably occurred close to 60 years ago.]
I'll post one more: US 89/Harrison Blvd (SR 203)/1550 East/Ridgeline Drive (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.1555571,-111.939533,443m/data=!3m1!1e3) in South Ogden, Utah.
In the original configuration, Harrison directly connected to 1550 East, intersecting US 89 at an angle, and Ridgeline Drive didn't exist yet. (Though looking at some historic aerials, I'm not sure if you could continue straight through northbound.) At any rate, this was changed at some point between 1965 and 1971; the original four-way intersection was split into two three-way junctions. US 89 met 1550 East at a typical three-way intersection, while the junction between US 89 and Harrison became a seagull intersection. The old alignment of Harrison was used for a northbound free-right.
However, that was a relatively short-term arrangement. The roads were moved back to their original skewed intersection by 1978, probably to allow for a southbound dual left onto 89. In the mid-1990s, Ridgeline Drive was built, though it did not connect to US 89 because it was too close to the Harrison/1550 East intersection.
This configuration remained until 2016, when it was essentially shifted back to a larger version of the early 1970s alignments. However, this time the 1550 East intersection is restricted to RIRO, and Harrison now connects with Ridgeline. The modern junction features a rare triple left turn from Harrison as well as a dual left from Ridgeline.
Although it doesn't crack the top 10, this is probably one of the busiest intersections in Utah, and even then UDOT isn't done improving it. Currently ongoing construction will add another lane to the westbound right turn, making this a rare example of a double free right turn.
This may be stretching the scope of the topic, but check out Perkins Road at I-10 (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Baton+Rouge,+LA/@30.351061,-91.0352887,1886m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x86243867325f74cb:0x2123f1db91579a1d!8m2!3d30.4514677!4d-91.1871466) in Baton Rouge. There are two significant reroutings here: first; the rerouting of Perkins Road to eliminate crossing the railroad track twice; and second; the elimination of the straight-through intersection of Perkins Road with Highland Road to let I-10 through.
Quote from: vdeane on September 21, 2019, 10:05:59 PM
Quite a few around the Rochester area.
I wonder if NY 31, Lee Rd, and the NY 390 NB ramps would count for this thread.
You can sort of see what's going on (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1637981,-77.6794892,809m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1) in Google's satellite view. It's a conceptually similar situation to NY 404/Shoecraft Rd in that two closely spaced T intersections were combined into one 4-way intersection.* The biggest differences are that NY 31/Lee Rd was more notoriously congested, has much higher truck traffic (causing problems every time a truck tried to weave from 390 NB to Lee Rd), and the fix/realignment is just one part of a much larger project.
*I suppose we might as well go macro and mention the Can of Worms (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Can_of_Worms_(interchange)) interchange in this regard as well! :)
The multiple connections of Main St, Rochester Rd, Crooks Rd, Gardenia and Catalpa in Royal Oak have been modified over the years.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4985256,-83.1451297,401m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en
Rochester evolved from the Paint Creek trail and Crooks from the Saginaw Trail. About a mile north on Crooks, where it turns due north, you can still see the old Saginaw Trail as a depression in the ground.
As you can see, Rochester at some time was "divided" at it's southernmost extremity, so that SB traffic comes to a traffic light just south of Crooks.
Gardenia used to continue straight east to terminate at Main St; that is now a dead-end parking area. Gardenia now meets directly across Main from Catalpa. The signal there is coordinated with the signals at SB Rochester and at Crooks for thru traffic. Although it guarantees that once you turn off SB Rochester onto Main, you will be stopped by the light at Catalpa/Gardenia.
Quote from: US 89 on September 30, 2019, 06:49:28 PM
I'll post one more: US 89/Harrison Blvd (SR 203)/1550 East/Ridgeline Drive (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.1555571,-111.939533,443m/data=!3m1!1e3) in South Ogden, Utah.
In the original configuration, Harrison directly connected to 1550 East, intersecting US 89 at an angle, and Ridgeline Drive didn't exist yet. (Though looking at some historic aerials, I'm not sure if you could continue straight through northbound.) At any rate, this was changed at some point between 1965 and 1971; the original four-way intersection was split into two three-way junctions. US 89 met 1550 East at a typical three-way intersection, while the junction between US 89 and Harrison became a seagull intersection. The old alignment of Harrison was used for a northbound free-right.
However, that was a relatively short-term arrangement. The roads were moved back to their original skewed intersection by 1978, probably to allow for a southbound dual left onto 89. In the mid-1990s, Ridgeline Drive was built, though it did not connect to US 89 because it was too close to the Harrison/1550 East intersection.
This configuration remained until 2016, when it was essentially shifted back to a larger version of the early 1970s alignments. However, this time the 1550 East intersection is restricted to RIRO, and Harrison now connects with Ridgeline. The modern junction features a rare triple left turn from Harrison as well as a dual left from Ridgeline.
Although it doesn't crack the top 10, this is probably one of the busiest intersections in Utah, and even then UDOT isn't done improving it. Currently ongoing construction will add another lane to the westbound right turn, making this a rare example of a double free right turn.
Isn't this one of the intersections poised to become an interchange when US 89 is upgraded to a freeway there?
UPDATE: Never mind, that's the segment south of I-84 that's to be upgraded; this intersection is north of I-84. Sorry. my mistake.