https://www.wowt.com/content/news/Northern-tier-of-I-680-to-be-renamed-I-880-563078321.html
The Iowa Department of Transportation has re-designated part of I-680 to I-880 between I-29 near Loveland and I-80 near Neola.
(https://i.imgflip.com/3dbke7.jpg)
A bit of discussion over the past couple weeks on another thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=25766.0).
That's interesting, but makes sense.
Is Iowa DOT planning any changes at the I-680 and I-80 (Crescent) interchange? I thought I remember reading about a modification, but I can't find it, and am also tired.
I'm still not sure why they did this. A flooding event is an emergency situation whereby temporary detour signs need to be posted to cover the area affected. Standard routings should not IMO be changed for such a reason.
So now instead of having a I-680 alternate/bypass to I-80 thru the Omaha area, 3 different routes need to be followed. Why?
IowaDOT finally mentioned it yesterday afternoon, but the news release URL referenced does not work:
https://twitter.com/cnclbluffs511/status/1183808032993464320
I will reiterate that splitting the current I-680 into two segments makes sense, because that gets rid of the pointless and unnecessary concurrency with I-29 (which is also a needless waste of a great 3di). Thus, I support making the Loveland-Minden stretch into I-880.
Quote from: Henry on October 15, 2019, 09:35:30 AM
I will reiterate that splitting the current I-680 into two segments makes sense, because that gets rid of the pointless and unnecessary concurrency with I-29 (which is also a needless waste of a great 3di). Thus, I support making the Loveland-Minden stretch into I-880.
The I-29 overlap is part of the Interstate bypass of the area for I-80, and will remain so.
Quote from: Beltway on October 15, 2019, 07:13:44 AM
I'm still not sure why they did this. A flooding event is an emergency situation whereby temporary detour signs need to be posted to cover the area affected. Standard routings should not IMO be changed for such a reason.
So now instead of having a I-680 alternate/bypass to I-80 thru the Omaha area, 3 different routes need to be followed. Why?
Let's say you're heading on I-29 north. There's a sign saying a portion of I-29 is closed for flooding (as happens often these days) and to take I-80 and I-680 to detour around it. Which way do you go? Now the sign can say I-880, and people won't go the other way and then get stuck when they hit the closure.
Bear in mind that I-680 wasn't ever conceived of as some grand bypass of Omaha. It was originally designated only on the portion where it exists now. I-880 was I-80N. This is actually a return to how everything was originally designated (or as much as one can without bringing back suffixes). I think someone even posted here (or elsewhere) that they took I-680 around Omaha for a recent trip and didn't find that it would be worth bothering to do unless one needed to make a stop on that route. It's faster to just stay on I-80 even though there's currently a closure on the mainline at the eastern I-29 interchange.
Quote from: vdeane on October 15, 2019, 01:14:12 PM
Bear in mind that I-680 wasn't ever conceived of as some grand bypass of Omaha. It was originally designated only on the portion where it exists now. I-880 was I-80N. This is actually a return to how everything was originally designated (or as much as one can without bringing back suffixes). I think someone even posted here (or elsewhere) that they took I-680 around Omaha for a recent trip and didn't find that it would be worth bothering to do unless one needed to make a stop on that route. It's faster to just stay on I-80 even though there's currently a closure on the mainline at the eastern I-29 interchange.
Yes. 80 is usually the faster route. When I lived in Omaha, I would only take 680 the whole way if I was starting north of Maple or Dodge St. To me, it felt like most of the people taking that route into Iowa were going to continue north on 29 towards Sioux City rather than heading east towards I-80.
Quote from: vdeane on October 15, 2019, 01:14:12 PM
Quote from: Beltway on October 15, 2019, 07:13:44 AM
I'm still not sure why they did this. A flooding event is an emergency situation whereby temporary detour signs need to be posted to cover the area affected. Standard routings should not IMO be changed for such a reason.
So now instead of having a I-680 alternate/bypass to I-80 thru the Omaha area, 3 different routes need to be followed. Why?
Let's say you're heading on I-29 north. There's a sign saying a portion of I-29 is closed for flooding (as happens often these days)
How often is that, how many days, in an average year? If it is 'often' then they need to plan to build levees, or relocate that part of I-29, or elevate it, and make it as near floodproof as possible.
Quote from: vdeane on October 15, 2019, 01:14:12 PM
and to take I-80 and I-680 to detour around it. Which way do you go? Now the sign can say I-880, and people won't go the other way and then get stuck when they hit the closure.
What if a section of I-80 or I-680 is flooded? Depends on the situation at hand.
In your situation, they could post orange trailblazer signs that route "Detour I-29" over I-80 and I-680.
Quote from: vdeane on October 15, 2019, 01:14:12 PM
Bear in mind that I-680 wasn't ever conceived of as some grand bypass of Omaha. It was originally designated only on the portion where it exists now. I-880 was I-80N. This is
When was the change, in the mid-1970s when suffixed routes were being renumbered nationwide?
Quote from: vdeane on October 15, 2019, 01:14:12 PMactually a return to how everything was originally designated (or as much as one can without bringing back suffixes). I think someone even posted here (or elsewhere) that they took I-680 around Omaha for a recent trip and didn't find that it would be worth bothering to do unless one needed to make a stop on that route. It's faster to just stay on I-80 even though there's currently a closure on the mainline at the eastern I-29 interchange.
Those segments were authorized back to 1950s. Traffic volumes today are to the point where many metros need outer bypasses, if they are feasible to build.
Quote from: Beltway on October 15, 2019, 01:37:00 PM
When was the change, in the mid-1970s when suffixed routes were being renumbered nationwide?
Yeah, around 1974 according to Wikipedia.
My knee jerk reaction was against it, but then I'm like, "Where else is Iowa gonna use another even x80?" Des Moines can use x35's for any current (nudge, nudge) or future loops. Iowa City and the Quads won't need more freeways this century, so fudge it. Long live 880.
Furthermore, the Avenue of the Saints is a future 2di waiting in the wings, so that gives a place like Cedar Rapids a new parent for any current or future loops. My fictional ideas are all still valid.
Quote from: Beltway on October 15, 2019, 12:38:20 PM
Quote from: Henry on October 15, 2019, 09:35:30 AM
I will reiterate that splitting the current I-680 into two segments makes sense, because that gets rid of the pointless and unnecessary concurrency with I-29 (which is also a needless waste of a great 3di). Thus, I support making the Loveland-Minden stretch into I-880.
The I-29 overlap is part of the Interstate bypass of the area for I-80, and will remain so.
I wouldn't really call it a bypass, as both routings traverse about 13 - 15 miles of urban area. Both routings are completely rural north of there, and I-80 is shorter distance than I-680. The only difference is I-680 bypasses the core Downtown area, but it still goes through the urban / traffic dense area nonetheless.
If I was traveling through the area, I'd probably remain on I-80 fully. I don't image much thru traffic would use that northern routing, unless there was traffic congestion on I-80 and none of I-680.
Now, if I-680 traveled through a completely rural area or suburban area with good interchange spacing, a lot of lanes, rural design on the facility itself, etc. (think I-295 around the outer Richmond suburbs in VA) and avoided all of the urban area, then it's a no-brainer to take that. But that's not the case.
So I wonder why they routed I-680 that way 40 years ago after I-80N was changed to I-680? Other than seeing I-680 as a bypass/alternate to I-80 thru Omaha?
Quote from: vdeane on October 15, 2019, 01:40:53 PM
Quote from: Beltway on October 15, 2019, 01:37:00 PM
When was the change, in the mid-1970s when suffixed routes were being renumbered nationwide?
Yeah, around 1974 according to Wikipedia.
Approved by AASHTO on November 10, 1973:
Quote
I-80N
Redesignation
Approved
Beginning at the intersection of I-680, I-29 and I-80N at the Crescent interchange, thence northerly overlapping I-29 and U.S. 75 to the interchange with present I-80N at Loveland, thence in an easterly direction overlapping I-80N to the intersection of present I-80 at Neola. Existing route I-80N to be redesignated I-680.
Well that was fast. They've updated it to I-880 on Google Maps (at least the icon). The part concurrent with I-29 still shows I-680 and if you do directions from Crescent Iowa to the I-80/I-880 interchange near Minden it still gives the directions for the I-880 part as I-680.
Quote from: mvak36 on October 16, 2019, 10:02:52 PM
Well that was fast. They've updated it to I-880 on Google Maps (at least the icon). The part concurrent with I-29 still shows I-680 and if you do directions from Crescent Iowa to the I-80/I-880 interchange near Minden it still gives the directions for the I-880 part as I-680.
All of Street View still labels it as I-680, even with the little map in the corner showing I-880. Guess we have to wait for them to drive it again.
Quote from: X99 on October 17, 2019, 12:14:28 PM
Quote from: mvak36 on October 16, 2019, 10:02:52 PM
Well that was fast. They've updated it to I-880 on Google Maps (at least the icon). The part concurrent with I-29 still shows I-680 and if you do directions from Crescent Iowa to the I-80/I-880 interchange near Minden it still gives the directions for the I-880 part as I-680.
All of Street View still labels it as I-680, even with the little map in the corner showing I-880. Guess we have to wait for them to drive it again.
Here maps should already have it updated, though I've not checked.
Why didn't they do this when the Interstate 80N designation was decommissioned in the 1970s? Personally, I think they should leave the existing 680 designation along this segment alone, and not renumber it to 880, even if no other roadway in Iowa would ever bear the 880 designation.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on October 17, 2019, 04:17:13 PM
Why didn't they do this when the Interstate 80N designation was decommissioned in the 1970s? Personally, I think they should leave the existing 680 designation along this segment alone, and not renumber it to 880, even if no other roadway in Iowa would ever bear the 880 designation.
Missouri River wasn't flooding on a regular basis back then.
Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on October 17, 2019, 11:22:29 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on October 17, 2019, 04:17:13 PM
Why didn't they do this when the Interstate 80N designation was decommissioned in the 1970s? Personally, I think they should leave the existing 680 designation along this segment alone, and not renumber it to 880, even if no other roadway in Iowa would ever bear the 880 designation.
Missouri River wasn't flooding on a regular basis back then.
How many days per year does it flood?
Quote from: Beltway on October 18, 2019, 12:03:16 AM
Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on October 17, 2019, 11:22:29 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on October 17, 2019, 04:17:13 PM
Why didn't they do this when the Interstate 80N designation was decommissioned in the 1970s? Personally, I think they should leave the existing 680 designation along this segment alone, and not renumber it to 880, even if no other roadway in Iowa would ever bear the 880 designation.
Missouri River wasn't flooding on a regular basis back then.
How many days per year does it flood?
Most years, not at all. Before this unusual year, the last flood was in 2011. Before that, sometime in the 1950's, prior to the 4 upstream dams in South Dakota being completed. The combination of the Spencer Dam on the Niobrara River failing in March, along with unusually wet weather that lasted into September, is the reason you're seeing I-29 and IA 2 (among others) being closed for lengthy periods of time on up to 4 separate occasions.
Google Maps already shows old 680 as 880. In any event, how soon will old 680's exit numbers remain the same? By my estimates, the new exit numbers will go as follows:
Interstate 29 South-Exit 0A or 1A
Interstate 29 North-Exit 0B or 1B
County L34-Old Exit 21/New Exit 8
IA 191 North/County G8L South-Old Exit 28/New Exit 15
Interstate 80 East-Old Exit 29A/New Exit 16A
Interstate 80 West-Old Exit 29B/New Exit 16B
Given this map (https://iowadot.gov/maps/MapParts/Section%206.pdf), the numbers might not change at all.
Didn't the Missouri flood pretty badly back in the early 1990s? Maybe 1992 or 93 or so? I remember contemplating a trip to Omaha and being concerned about flooding. I think I was going to take I-74 and I-80 one way, and I-64, I-70, and I-29 the other way. Never did make that trip, though.
And if flooding detours are a concern, if you're coming north on I-29, you can take I-80 and I-680 either way, can't you? Wouldn't signs say I-80 east to I-680 west? You're still going to have to tell drivers to use I-80 east even if you don't specify a direction on I-880.
I kinda would have preferred 429. Meh.
Quote from: brad2971 on October 18, 2019, 07:34:30 AM
Quote from: Beltway on October 18, 2019, 12:03:16 AM
How many days per year does it flood?
Most years, not at all. Before this unusual year, the last flood was in 2011. Before that, sometime in the 1950's, prior to the 4 upstream dams in South Dakota being completed. The combination of the Spencer Dam on the Niobrara River failing in March, along with unusually wet weather that lasted into September, is the reason you're seeing I-29 and IA 2 (among others) being closed for lengthy periods of time on up to 4 separate occasions.
Still sounds like unusual events, if a few years are problematic and most years are zero.
Whatever routes are needed if a segment of I-29 is closed, they could use orange signs with "Detour I-29" temporary trailblazers.
They need to plan to build levees, or relocate that part of I-29, or elevate it, and make it as near floodproof as possible. Flooding over an Interstate highway shouldn't happen except under the most extreme conditions.
Quote from: Beltway on October 18, 2019, 05:16:08 PM
Quote from: brad2971 on October 18, 2019, 07:34:30 AM
Quote from: Beltway on October 18, 2019, 12:03:16 AM
How many days per year does it flood?
Most years, not at all. Before this unusual year, the last flood was in 2011. Before that, sometime in the 1950's, prior to the 4 upstream dams in South Dakota being completed. The combination of the Spencer Dam on the Niobrara River failing in March, along with unusually wet weather that lasted into September, is the reason you're seeing I-29 and IA 2 (among others) being closed for lengthy periods of time on up to 4 separate occasions.
Still sounds like unusual events, if a few years are problematic and most years are zero.
Whatever routes are needed if a segment of I-29 is closed, they could use orange signs with "Detour I-29" temporary trailblazers.
They need to plan to build levees, or relocate that part of I-29, or elevate it, and make it as near floodproof as possible. Flooding over an Interstate highway shouldn't happen except under the most extreme conditions.
Have you ever been to that part of the country? Seems like you are toting a lot of angst over something in the grand scheme doesn't affect you.
Quote from: Beltway on October 18, 2019, 05:16:08 PM
Quote from: brad2971 on October 18, 2019, 07:34:30 AM
Quote from: Beltway on October 18, 2019, 12:03:16 AM
How many days per year does it flood?
Most years, not at all. Before this unusual year, the last flood was in 2011. Before that, sometime in the 1950's, prior to the 4 upstream dams in South Dakota being completed. The combination of the Spencer Dam on the Niobrara River failing in March, along with unusually wet weather that lasted into September, is the reason you're seeing I-29 and IA 2 (among others) being closed for lengthy periods of time on up to 4 separate occasions.
Still sounds like unusual events, if a few years are problematic and most years are zero.
Whatever routes are needed if a segment of I-29 is closed, they could use orange signs with "Detour I-29" temporary trailblazers.
They need to plan to build levees, or relocate that part of I-29, or elevate it, and make it as near floodproof as possible. Flooding over an Interstate highway shouldn't happen except under the most extreme conditions.
How do you suggest we pay for it, considering we can't maintain what we currently have?
Quote from: Beltway on October 18, 2019, 05:16:08 PMStill sounds like unusual events, if a few years are problematic and most years are zero.
Whatever routes are needed if a segment of I-29 is closed, they could use orange signs with "Detour I-29" temporary trailblazers.
They need to plan to build levees, or relocate that part of I-29, or elevate it, and make it as near floodproof as possible. Flooding over an Interstate highway shouldn't happen except under the most extreme conditions.
In regard to H.B.'s comment upthread about flooding in the mid-1990's, a casual Google search turns up mention of a Missouri River flood in Omaha in 1993 as part of the Great Flood in that year, but I don't recall hearing that I-29 was underwater. I do remember the floods in 2011 (almost compromised the Calhoun nuclear power plant in Nebraska, which attracted national coverage since flooding was also the proximate cause of the ongoing Fukushima Daiichi disaster) and earlier this year. My concern is that near-annual inundation of I-29 between Omaha and Kansas City may represent a new normal.
Part of the problem is that levees within this portion of the I-29 corridor are maintained largely by small and chronically underfunded local boards. Technical solutions are available but money for implementation is basically nonexistent.
Quote from: US71 on October 20, 2019, 12:39:27 PM
Quote from: Beltway on October 18, 2019, 05:16:08 PM
Still sounds like unusual events, if a few years are problematic and most years are zero.
Whatever routes are needed if a segment of I-29 is closed, they could use orange signs with "Detour I-29" temporary trailblazers.
They need to plan to build levees, or relocate that part of I-29, or elevate it, and make it as near floodproof as possible. Flooding over an Interstate highway shouldn't happen except under the most extreme conditions.
How do you suggest we pay for it, considering we can't maintain what we currently have?
Federal funding special allocations above and beyond normal annual allocations?
NOLA got something like $15 billion in such allocations for flood control projects since 2005.
I was wondering what was going on. I saw google maps had changed it a few days ago. I myself wish it would stay the way it was but it wont bother me (much) hehe.
Quote from: vdeane on October 18, 2019, 02:21:18 PM
Given this map (https://iowadot.gov/maps/MapParts/Section%206.pdf), the numbers might not change at all.
I asked the Iowa DOT on Facebook about the exit numbering situation when they made the announcement, and they said the exit numbers were changing.
I'm finally getting around to making site updates today even though signs apparently haven't changed in the field yet.
Yeah, the change is present in Google Maps. But it hasn't found its way into Google Earth yet. It's still numbered as I-680 in Apple Maps as well.
Wikipedia says the exits along old 680/present 880 has already had its exits renumbered to correspond with the highways new mileage. Has Wikipedia jumped the gun on listing the new exit numbers on Interstate 880, given it's been just under a month since the 680-to-880 conversion was approved?
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on October 29, 2019, 05:01:25 PM
Wikipedia says the exits along old 680/present 880 has already had its exits renumbered to correspond with the highways new mileage. Has Wikipedia jumped the gun on listing the new exit numbers on Interstate 880, given it's been just under a month since the 680-to-880 conversion was approved?
I'm pretty sure no signage has changed yet. Perhaps later this week I'll drive out there to verify.
Quote from: Beltway on October 15, 2019, 07:13:44 AM
I'm still not sure why they did this. A flooding event is an emergency situation whereby temporary detour signs need to be posted to cover the area affected. Standard routings should not IMO be changed for such a reason.
So now instead of having a I-680 alternate/bypass to I-80 thru the Omaha area, 3 different routes need to be followed. Why?
I feel the same way I-680 is a bypass pf Omaha it made sense to have one route number.
Is there any chance of extending 680 past 29 to meet up north of Council Bluffs, like the map showed? Seems like the change would be much more appropriate in this case as it now would allow for such a thing.
There was a time where we would use the entire 680 route as an Omaha bypass, usually westbound, but as far as time goes we think it only made a difference if there was heavy traffic as the (now 880) section was always very, very light.
Quote from: mrose on November 07, 2019, 08:58:51 PM
Is there any chance of extending 680 past 29 to meet up north of Council Bluffs, like the map showed? Seems like the change would be much more appropriate in this case as it now would allow for such a thing.
There was a time where we would use the entire 680 route as an Omaha bypass, usually westbound, but as far as time goes we think it only made a difference if there was heavy traffic as the (now 880) section was always very, very light.
First of all, you would have to obliterate the railroad crossing immediately east of the I-680 interchange. From there, you'd have to come up with a way to bypass the city of Crescent and get over the bluffs on the east side of the Missouri River valley. I imagine it's possible, but to have a road between Crescent and Underwood may be a challenge too big for the Iowa DoT.
Quote from: DandyDan on November 09, 2019, 01:32:32 AM
First of all, you would have to obliterate the railroad crossing immediately east of the I-680 interchange.
Doesn't look to hard - just raise the mainline and add bridges on the outer ramps. On streetview it appears there is a good downgrade between the bridges over I-29 and the railroad.
Quote from: DandyDan on November 09, 2019, 01:32:32 AMFrom there, you'd have to come up with a way to bypass the city of Crescent and get over the bluffs on the east side of the Missouri River valley. I imagine it's possible, but to have a road between Crescent and Underwood may be a challenge too big for the Iowa DoT.
Maybe a financial challenge, but I think Iowa could figure it out if the need arose, considering they built US 34 through Burlington and some of the roadways around Dubuque. But I don't think the need will be there for decades unless there is a large population boom in the area. IIRC back during the Omaha beltway study, it was stated the rebuild of I-29 and I-80 should be have enough extra capacity to preclude the need for a bypass on the Iowa side.
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on October 29, 2019, 05:18:14 PM
I'm pretty sure no signage has changed yet. Perhaps later this week I'll drive out there to verify.
Having driven through the area this past weekend (apologies for no photos), I can confirm that 880 is signed on the overhead gantries along both eastbound and westbound I-80 near the 80/880 interchange (using the clip/square patch style that IDOT seems to like to use for gantry updates). There is also a regular cutout 880 sign on a wooden post along 80 westbound, complete with the state name in the new shield as well.
I drove over I-880 and I-29 north of Council Bluffs today. I-680 is still signed on I-29, at least northbound. It feels like you're driving through a lake once you get past the Honey Creek exit. I hope they don't have another flood. I'm surprised they have "IOWA" posted on the I-880 signs, considering they have older I-29 and I-80 signs without it.
Quote from: DandyDan on December 01, 2019, 09:18:33 PM
I drove over I-880 and I-29 north of Council Bluffs today. I-680 is still signed on I-29, at least northbound. It feels like you're driving through a lake once you get past the Honey Creek exit. I hope they don't have another flood. I'm surprised they have "IOWA" posted on the I-880 signs, considering they have older I-29 and I-80 signs without it.
I feel like I am repeating myself, but a year and a half later, the I-680 signs on I-29 are still up. Signs that suggest EB I-680 continues on NB I-29 continue to exist as you approach the I-29/I-680 interchange. I-680 signs also exist at the Honey Creek interchange. I didn't go further north, but it struck me as being too lazy to take old signs down.
Quote from: DandyDan on July 14, 2021, 08:14:12 PM
Quote from: DandyDan on December 01, 2019, 09:18:33 PM
I drove over I-880 and I-29 north of Council Bluffs today. I-680 is still signed on I-29, at least northbound. It feels like you're driving through a lake once you get past the Honey Creek exit. I hope they don't have another flood. I'm surprised they have "IOWA" posted on the I-880 signs, considering they have older I-29 and I-80 signs without it.
I feel like I am repeating myself, but a year and a half later, the I-680 signs on I-29 are still up. Signs that suggest EB I-680 continues on NB I-29 continue to exist as you approach the I-29/I-680 interchange. I-680 signs also exist at the Honey Creek interchange. I didn't go further north, but it struck me as being too lazy to take old signs down.
That's what it seemed like to me over Christmas; the signage was such you could make the argument I-680 ended at the I-880/I-29 interchange after a 6-mile pointless multiplex.
Quote from: SD Mapman on August 30, 2021, 12:59:16 AM
Quote from: DandyDan on July 14, 2021, 08:14:12 PM
Quote from: DandyDan on December 01, 2019, 09:18:33 PM
I drove over I-880 and I-29 north of Council Bluffs today. I-680 is still signed on I-29, at least northbound. It feels like you're driving through a lake once you get past the Honey Creek exit. I hope they don't have another flood. I'm surprised they have "IOWA" posted on the I-880 signs, considering they have older I-29 and I-80 signs without it.
I feel like I am repeating myself, but a year and a half later, the I-680 signs on I-29 are still up. Signs that suggest EB I-680 continues on NB I-29 continue to exist as you approach the I-29/I-680 interchange. I-680 signs also exist at the Honey Creek interchange. I didn't go further north, but it struck me as being too lazy to take old signs down.
That's what it seemed like to me over Christmas; the signage was such you could make the argument I-680 ended at the I-880/I-29 interchange after a 6-mile pointless multiplex.
That's IowaDOT for ya.