Kind of curious with the vast resources of this forum, if we can establish the oldest, still standing BGS?
I'm thinking it'll either be in California or Baltimore, MD.
The US 101 Bypass BGS on the Bayshore Freeway is probably way up there as a contender:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/1732/40976822470_450d1a29ad_4k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/25qYVH9)101USk (https://flic.kr/p/25qYVH9) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr
The green US Route shield is pre-1962 spec I'm to understand the "Bypass" placard is greened out.
I wouldn't be surprised to learn this "12th Street" sign in Washington, DC, is at least one of the oldest. It was still there as of Monday morning (I'll see later today whether it's still there, but I assume it is). DC has been getting more aggressive about replacing old signs, as seen with the demise of the legendary boarded-up signs near the Kennedy Center, so I suspect this one is not long for this world. When I passed it on Monday morning, it was still dark out as it was shortly before 7:00 AM and the sign was almost illegible in that sort of light.
I would understand if someone were to consider this an LGS rather than a BGS.
https://goo.gl/maps/oEuxusQPXA7R27Ex5
...also following this thread. I recall there were a few in the first pages of the Best of Road Signs thread which dates from the early-1960s, but I have no idea if they're still posted.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 16, 2019, 03:24:27 PM
Note; I'll fix the link to the above photo when I get to my computer tonight. For some reason the Flickr Phone app doesn't give me a Forum friendly URL.
I log into Flickr through the browser, then specify the Desktop site. It's clumsy, but it works.
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on October 16, 2019, 03:20:20 PM
Kind of curious with the vast resources of this forum, if we can establish the oldest, still standing BGS?
I'm thinking it'll either be in California or Baltimore, MD.
The question is "who adopted the GREEN signs first and has put in those which have stayed and not been replaced?"
California was using BLACK directional signs at least as late as 1968 (maybe even 1974) or so. If I remember right "yellow divides opposite direction traffic" was a fairly new concept in 1976 when I took driver training.
My guess is that there are green signs over I-80 in the East Bay and I-5 in LA that haven't been replaced since those roads became part of the Interstate system. Although, the I-5 signs would have had to have been changed from "Bakersfield" to "Sacramento" when I-5 was completed in roughly in 1981 (that's what "greenout" is for).
I have seen some US-50 signs (with black backgrounds, IIRC) in Oakland when tabs have fallen off of signs. I believe that someone else posted a picture of what I saw there in this forum.
Quote from: michravera on October 18, 2019, 11:37:54 AM
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on October 16, 2019, 03:20:20 PM
Kind of curious with the vast resources of this forum, if we can establish the oldest, still standing BGS?
I'm thinking it'll either be in California or Baltimore, MD.
The question is "who adopted the GREEN signs first and has put in those which have stayed and not been replaced?"
California was using BLACK directional signs at least as late as 1968 (maybe even 1974) or so. If I remember right "yellow divides opposite direction traffic" was a fairly new concept in 1976 when I took driver training.
My guess is that there are green signs over I-80 in the East Bay and I-5 in LA that haven't been replaced since those roads became part of the Interstate system. Although, the I-5 signs would have had to have been changed from "Bakersfield" to "Sacramento" when I-5 was completed in roughly in 1981 (that's what "greenout" is for).
I have seen some US-50 signs (with black backgrounds, IIRC) in Oakland when tabs have fallen off of signs. I believe that someone else posted a picture of what I saw there in this forum.
There is a bunch of older stuff on I-580 that appears to have been US 50 era vintage. It's hard to get a good gauge on how old those signs are compared to the US 101 Bypass I posted up thread since the US 50 shields have been replaced. I have a good photo stock of I-580 Westbound, I'll have a look and see what's trending older when I get an opportunity.
Quote from: michravera on October 18, 2019, 11:37:54 AM
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on October 16, 2019, 03:20:20 PM
Kind of curious with the vast resources of this forum, if we can establish the oldest, still standing BGS?
I'm thinking it'll either be in California or Baltimore, MD.
The question is "who adopted the GREEN signs first and has put in those which have stayed and not been replaced?"
California was using BLACK directional signs at least as late as 1968 (maybe even 1974) or so. If I remember right "yellow divides opposite direction traffic" was a fairly new concept in 1976 when I took driver training.
My guess is that there are green signs over I-80 in the East Bay and I-5 in LA that haven't been replaced since those roads became part of the Interstate system. Although, the I-5 signs would have had to have been changed from "Bakersfield" to "Sacramento" when I-5 was completed in roughly in 1981 (that's what "greenout" is for).
I have seen some US-50 signs (with black backgrounds, IIRC) in Oakland when tabs have fallen off of signs. I believe that someone else posted a picture of what I saw there in this forum.
My memory is hazy on some of these things, but I do recall that California began transitioning from the black directional signs to green sometime in the later 1950s and by 1969 there were few black signs left. And California wasn't alone in that, several states made a similar transition from black to green and some of the black signs could be seen in large eastern cities too when I was little (I believe I saw them in MD, NJ and PA). FWIW, the NY Thruway and Connecticut Turnpike (I-95) used blue background directional signs in the 1950s and 1960s and I remember them still being around during the early 1970s.
As for pavement markings, my understanding (from my parents) is that the white to yellow transition was well underway by the time they moved to California in 1963 and that CA was ahead of many states in making this change. Their early adoption of the yellow line led to the dashed white line between two yellow, as that was a holdover from when all markings were white. You don't see that in many other states because the marking scheme change came a little later, by which time the dashed line in the middle had pretty much gone away.
My understanding was that the switch from black to green directional signage in California was 1958 spec.
Speaking of I-580 I didn't see anything in the MacAurthur Maze westbound that made me think any of the signs predated 1962 spec. There definitely wasn't any US 50 shields in my album that were covered by I-580:
https://www.gribblenation.org/2019/05/interstate-375-in-detroit-michigan.html?m=1
Speaking of US Route shields covered by another shield there is a 1962 spec US 60 (I noted the login tip with Flickr I just don't have my code on hand) shield covered by a CA 60 where the route splits from I-10 west in Beaumont:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48823887558_4b9fa6d9ec_4k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hopbLN)0 (https://flic.kr/p/2hopbLN) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on October 18, 2019, 12:32:53 PM
As for pavement markings, my understanding (from my parents) is that the white to yellow transition was well underway by the time they moved to California in 1963 and that CA was ahead of many states in making this change. Their early adoption of the yellow line led to the dashed white line between two yellow, as that was a holdover from when all markings were white. You don't see that in many other states because the marking scheme change came a little later, by which time the dashed line in the middle had pretty much gone away.
If the center was marked with a white dashed line, how were lanes in the same direction of travel delineated? If that was also a white dashed line as it is now, how did people tell them apart?
Quote from: vdeane on October 18, 2019, 01:03:50 PM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on October 18, 2019, 12:32:53 PM
As for pavement markings, my understanding (from my parents) is that the white to yellow transition was well underway by the time they moved to California in 1963 and that CA was ahead of many states in making this change. Their early adoption of the yellow line led to the dashed white line between two yellow, as that was a holdover from when all markings were white. You don't see that in many other states because the marking scheme change came a little later, by which time the dashed line in the middle had pretty much gone away.
If the center was marked with a white dashed line, how were lanes in the same direction of travel delineated? If that was also a white dashed line as it is now, how did people tell them apart?
They were also white, you just had to know the type of road you were driving. Probably what drove the standard to make them yellow for opposing traffic.
As for the black BGS, I-5 in San Clemente had them until it was widened in the early 80s. I think the green standard came in in the early 60s.
I think there was still a black BGS on I-5 up around the Newhall Pass until about a decade ago, if memory serves.
I had to drive to Berkeley and back the last couple days so I was keeping an eye out between there and West Sacramento for anything dating from the US 40 era. For both directions, I spotted only one such remaining sign, this one eastbound in Vacaville. It looks like that segment was completed in 1963-1964...so I don't think there's a contender on that portion of the freeway.
https://goo.gl/maps/KYmXzSx77E7m1sfn6 (https://goo.gl/maps/KYmXzSx77E7m1sfn6)
Quote from: ClassicHasClass on October 19, 2019, 02:57:10 PM
I think there was still a black BGS on I-5 up around the Newhall Pass until about a decade ago, if memory serves.
Until sometime between January and June 2017 actually, according to google streetview: https://goo.gl/maps/CW2ik7AgdCMXD2aV6
And I think this one on I-205 might be the oldest in Washington, it's actually still button copy! https://goo.gl/maps/RskcGCM1Cq6GrVYX9
Given my experiences of driving in L.A. traffic (which, BTW, was horrendous then like it is now), I'm being led to believe that CA has the oldest BGS' still up. As they say, they love everything old and reject anything new.
QuoteUntil sometime between January and June 2017 actually, according to google streetview: https://goo.gl/maps/CW2ik7AgdCMXD2aV6
That's the one. That's stupid that Google Maps blurred it out. Guess it looked like a license plate to their Sauron AI.
Quote from: ClassicHasClass on October 21, 2019, 09:49:19 PM
QuoteUntil sometime between January and June 2017 actually, according to google streetview: https://goo.gl/maps/CW2ik7AgdCMXD2aV6
That's the one. That's stupid that Google Maps blurred it out. Guess it looked like a license plate to their Sauron AI.
That sign's nice & clear from a straight-on view. (https://www.google.com/maps/@34.3157156,-118.489698,3a,75y,327.11h,91.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRXIYHItPaTl2jE3VSCCaOA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en)
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 22, 2019, 10:49:11 AM
Quote from: ClassicHasClass on October 21, 2019, 09:49:19 PM
QuoteUntil sometime between January and June 2017 actually, according to google streetview: https://goo.gl/maps/CW2ik7AgdCMXD2aV6
That's the one. That's stupid that Google Maps blurred it out. Guess it looked like a license plate to their Sauron AI.
That sign's nice & clear from a straight-on view. (https://www.google.com/maps/@34.3157156,-118.489698,3a,75y,327.11h,91.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRXIYHItPaTl2jE3VSCCaOA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en)
I'd imagine both those signs are the same age? (Autos and Truck Route) Maybe it was black b/c it was a TRUCK ROUTE? It doesn't look like black from like the 1950s era signs.
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on October 22, 2019, 04:21:48 PM
I'd imagine both those signs are the same age? (Autos and Truck Route) Maybe it was black b/c it was a TRUCK ROUTE? It doesn't look like black from like the 1950s era signs.
I had the same thought. I know I've seen old black legend weigh station/truck restriction signage in other states as late as late 90s/early 00s.
Quote from: marleythedog on October 22, 2019, 04:41:52 PM
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on October 22, 2019, 04:21:48 PM
I'd imagine both those signs are the same age? (Autos and Truck Route) Maybe it was black b/c it was a TRUCK ROUTE? It doesn't look like black from like the 1950s era signs.
I had the same thought. I know I've seen old black legend weigh station/truck restriction signage in other states as late as late 90s/early 00s.
Many states use white on black for the R13-1 "All Trucks Must Stop" Weigh Station signs instead of black on white. It's a permitted option in the MUTCD.
Quote from: roadman on October 22, 2019, 04:55:35 PM
Quote from: marleythedog on October 22, 2019, 04:41:52 PM
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on October 22, 2019, 04:21:48 PM
I'd imagine both those signs are the same age? (Autos and Truck Route) Maybe it was black b/c it was a TRUCK ROUTE? It doesn't look like black from like the 1950s era signs.
I had the same thought. I know I've seen old black legend weigh station/truck restriction signage in other states as late as late 90s/early 00s.
Many states use white on black for the R13-1 "All Trucks Must Stop" Weigh Station signs instead of black on white. It's a permitted option in the MUTCD.
Idaho uses white on black for weigh station regulatory signage:
(https://i.imgur.com/Mq6M2fT.jpg)
No idea how old this is exactly, but it would be a contender, at least in the Midwest. The classic Chicago Skyway sign. https://www.aaroads.com/shields/show.php?image=IN19610651
Quote from: stevashe on October 20, 2019, 12:56:02 AM
And I think this one on I-205 might be the oldest in Washington, it's actually still button copy! https://goo.gl/maps/RskcGCM1Cq6GrVYX9
I think Oregon maintains the whole bridge, even the portion in Washington. Anyway, it's slipped through the cracks.
After looking through my photos this crumbling US 101 Hollywood Freeway sign at the split for CA 134/Ventura Freeway caught my eye.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47939961143_e7f8e1d0fe_4k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2g3hQfc)IMG_0415 (https://flic.kr/p/2g3hQfc) by Max Rockatansky (https://www.flickr.com/photos/151828809@N08/), on Flickr
For Massachusetts, now that the Clarendon Street on ramp to I-90 has been closed, the oldest BGSes still in place are the button copy signs on Route 33 in Chicopee and South Hadley. These signs (and structures) are to be replaced under the I-391 Chicopee to Holyoke sign replacement project scheduled for advertisement this December.
These two (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2138162,-77.4753471,3a,78.4y,83.78h,86.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szjVsdIgByvqxgjPXWGGsjg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1) are among the oldest in the Rochester area, if not the entire state. I suppose they're not technically "standing", but they are BGS's, so they count as far as I'm concerned!
If it has an outline of Louisiana on it, it's a candidate for the oldest in Louisiana. This one on LA 1 south of Natchitoches (https://www.google.com/maps/@31.7185555,-93.0669356,3a,75y,3.89h,91.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sigtjLSgYTzLxmbEr4c66SQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) was still up as of May 2018.
Utah's oldest by far were these (https://goo.gl/maps/5HkjC3KVbmq5s3co8) two (https://goo.gl/maps/mN1GQB6HrtdTE3DAA) button copy pull-throughs on I-15 at exit 59 in Cedar City. Unfortunately, both were replaced sometime between 2009 and 2011. This pair on I-80 (https://goo.gl/maps/nBA9fsAu8UDsvuqQ7) would have been a great candidate as well, but they were removed in 2017. Almost everything good in this state has been replaced within the past 10 years. :(
Now...it's really hard to say, other than that it's probably on one of the freeways in Salt Lake that opened in the mid-1980s. At the rate UDOT replaces signs I can't keep track of what's still up and what's been replaced. One particular contender may be this sign (https://goo.gl/maps/FKAsuD4p6puc37AK8), given its location on a 1985 freeway segment and lack of an exit number.
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on October 22, 2019, 04:21:48 PM
Quote from: stevashe on October 20, 2019, 12:56:02 AM
Quote from: ClassicHasClass on October 19, 2019, 02:57:10 PM
I think there was still a black BGS on I-5 up around the Newhall Pass until about a decade ago, if memory serves.
Until sometime between January and June 2017 actually, according to google streetview: https://goo.gl/maps/CW2ik7AgdCMXD2aV6
I'd imagine both those signs are the same age? (Autos and Truck Route) Maybe it was black b/c it was a TRUCK ROUTE? It doesn't look like black from like the 1950s era signs.
Yeah that may be the case, especially since the replacement sign is white.
Quote from: roadman on October 23, 2019, 09:13:58 AMFor Massachusetts, now that the Clarendon Street on ramp to I-90 has been closed, the oldest BGSes still in place are the button copy signs on Route 33 in Chicopee and South Hadley.
I'm guessing that those are from either the late 60s or very early 1970s (no later than 1971). That MA 33 shield is likely not original. Back then, MassDPW typically used beige, rectangular route shields regardless of the number of digits a route number had. Those style shields didn't age too well reflectivity-wise and dirtied very easily to a point where the shields looked brown over time.
Once these signs are replaced, the oldest ones (sans the route shields) will be the surviving 1972-vintage signs at both ends of MA 49 in Sturbridge & Spencer. Next in line will be the 1973-vintage 3/4-mile advance sign for Old Sturbridge Village Rd. along US 20 westbound just beyond the I-84 interchange.
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 24, 2019, 01:19:21 PM
Quote from: roadman on October 23, 2019, 09:13:58 AMFor Massachusetts, now that the Clarendon Street on ramp to I-90 has been closed, the oldest BGSes still in place are the button copy signs on Route 33 in Chicopee and South Hadley.
I'm guessing that those are from either the late 60s or very early 1970s (no later than 1971). That MA 33 shield is likely not original. Back then, MassDPW typically used beige, rectangular route shields regardless of the number of digits a route number had. Those style shields didn't age too well reflectivity-wise and dirtied very easily to a point where the shields looked brown over time.
Once these signs are replaced, the oldest ones (sans the route shields) will be the surviving 1972-vintage signs at both ends of MA 49 in Sturbridge & Spencer. Next in line will be the 1973-vintage 3/4-mile advance sign for Old Sturbridge Village Rd. along US 20 westbound just beyond the I-84 interchange.
You have this on the US-5 connector and aren't there still 2 signs on US-6 in Fairhaven?
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48191688592_3bbbc67840_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gqx13C)
and
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48191483916_aa4a5b79a0_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gqvXcJ)
Fairhaven
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4427/36425188686_716b079586_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XuLByA)
For Maryland I'd nominate:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7818/32467152877_ef9229f66b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Rt1DpT)
For this one there's a pic somewhere online of showing this gantry as new from the 1960s.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48140311321_c2c47a6000_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gkZFnB)
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on October 24, 2019, 03:02:00 PM
You have this on the US-5 connector and aren't there still 2 signs on US-6 in Fairhaven?
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48191688592_3bbbc67840_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gqx13C)
If that BGS indeed dates back to when the connector extended to I-91 circa 1969-1971*, then yes. *best guess based on available historic aerials & topo maps. Note, that replacement I-90 shield likely dates back to the 1980s.
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on October 24, 2019, 03:02:00 PM
and
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48191483916_aa4a5b79a0_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gqvXcJ)
I believe that one is 1980s vintage; given the reflectorized green background.
Quote from: Mergingtraffic on October 24, 2019, 03:02:00 PM
Fairhaven
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4427/36425188686_716b079586_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/XuLByA)
Possibly, given that the US 6 shield once appeared to be beige when new. Although the MassDPW was using beige shields on their signs until 1974.