Do you believe that states should take a page from the turnpike playbook and convert their rest areas into full-fledged travel plazas? For me, I believe it would be in states' best interest to do so, especially in states with large gaps between towns on their interstates (California and Texas are two that come to mind)
Quote from: planxtymcgillicuddy on November 12, 2019, 03:13:04 PM
Do you believe that states should take a page from the turnpike playbook and convert their rest areas into full-fledged travel plazas? For me, I believe it would be in states' best interest to do so, especially in states with large gaps between towns on their interstates (California and Texas are two that come to mind)
No. Because if you have large gaps between rest areas, that means the area is sparely populated. Where would you get the numerous employees needed for those travel plazas that want to drive 40 or 50 miles at minimum each way for minimal pay?
Also, if you are in an unpopulated area, chances are the volume of traffic wouldn't justify opening up a travel plaza with multiple services.
Most of the Turnpikes opened in an era before interstates, and before numerous options existed for food and fuel at the limited number of exits along their roadways. Toll roads opening today generally aren't building service plazas, and instead promote businesses off the exits. In fact, some toll roads have reduced the number of service plazas available (PA Turnpike comes to mind), although they have remodeled and expanded the offerings at others.
Quote from: planxtymcgillicuddy on November 12, 2019, 03:13:04 PM
Do you believe that states should take a page from the turnpike playbook and convert their rest areas into full-fledged travel plazas? For me, I believe it would be in states' best interest to do so, especially in states with large gaps between towns on their interstates (California and Texas are two that come to mind)
Yes. There was no really good reason to prohibit the commercialization of rest areas in the first place.
Quote from: Brandon on November 12, 2019, 03:42:44 PM
Quote from: planxtymcgillicuddy on November 12, 2019, 03:13:04 PM
Do you believe that states should take a page from the turnpike playbook and convert their rest areas into full-fledged travel plazas? For me, I believe it would be in states' best interest to do so, especially in states with large gaps between towns on their interstates (California and Texas are two that come to mind)
Yes. There was no really good reason to prohibit the commercialization of rest areas in the first place.
Guess we'll see how good the blind lobby is. At just about every rest area I've seen in any state, there are signs in the vending areas that proceeds from the machines go to that state's Department For The Blind (or whatever it's called.)
But they don't see a penny from me (pun intended) because I refuse to pay inflated prices for a bottle or can of pop or a candy bar.
Quote from: hbelkins on November 12, 2019, 04:19:54 PM
Guess we'll see how good the blind lobby is. At just about every rest area I've seen in any state, there are signs in the vending areas that proceeds from the machines go to that state's Department For The Blind (or whatever it's called.)
But they don't see a penny from me (pun intended) because I refuse to pay inflated prices for a bottle or can of pop or a candy bar.
The prices at both Iowa and Minnesota rest areas are quite reasonable.
Furthermore, god forbid we help people with a major disability. :rolleyes:
We had this thread before because the government wanted to open this idea up. And I'll repeat my point from that thread that most existing rest areas were not designed with major expansion in mind.
Quote from: Brandon on November 12, 2019, 03:42:44 PM
Quote from: planxtymcgillicuddy on November 12, 2019, 03:13:04 PM
Do you believe that states should take a page from the turnpike playbook and convert their rest areas into full-fledged travel plazas? For me, I believe it would be in states' best interest to do so, especially in states with large gaps between towns on their interstates (California and Texas are two that come to mind)
Yes. There was no really good reason to prohibit the commercialization of rest areas in the first place.
It was part of the deal to build federally-funded toll-free Interstate highways, and to not interfere with commercial businesses at the interchanges.
No, why would states who don't operate plazas want to pick up the burden of having them and contracting them out? I-5 in California generally proves the point that businesses will find a way to reach places where there are people in remote areas.
The commercialization of rest areas is now frowned upon as it is looked upon as competing with local businesses. NY got into some warm water with its Taste of NY stores, but somehow got out of it.
(personal opinion expressed)
Quote from: Rothman on November 12, 2019, 05:42:23 PM
The commercialization of rest areas is now frowned upon as it is looked upon as competing with local businesses. NY got into some warm water with its Taste of NY stores, but somehow got out of it.
The early Interstate era had relatively sparse services along the interchanges, back when the highways were still relatively new. Today it is massive, most rural Interstates have tons of businesses all along the route.
IMO rest areas should only be service plazas if they're located in an area without services for miles around and they would enhance driver safety.
I think most rest areas will become supercharger stations anyways.
Beltway has the correct answer. It was part of the deal to foster private enterprise at the exits and not to grant a quasi-monopoly, or at least an advantage, to a insider contractor.
That good idea still applies. With this caveat. In places where for a significant mileage, say 60 miles, has no exits where a motorist can easily exit into an uncomplicated easy return exit with sufficient services, where the exit traffic does not contribute to over-capacity of the side road, a service area could be an alternative to other fixes for that issue.
Quote from: SP Cook on November 13, 2019, 03:30:20 PM
Beltway has the correct answer. It was part of the deal to foster private enterprise at the exits and not to grant a quasi-monopoly, or at least an advantage, to a insider contractor.
That good idea still applies. With this caveat. In places where for a significant mileage, say 60 miles, has no exits where a motorist can easily exit into an uncomplicated easy return exit with sufficient services, where the exit traffic does not contribute to over-capacity of the side road, a service area could be an alternative to other fixes for that issue.
So if the free marketplace does not think there will be enough customers along 60 miles of road to open a business, who will run the business at the service area? Will the State supplement the income, give them incredible tax incentives, or what? Cuz you know if a private enterprise can't make money, the State sure isn't going to make money.
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on November 12, 2019, 04:25:44 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 12, 2019, 04:19:54 PM
Guess we'll see how good the blind lobby is. At just about every rest area I've seen in any state, there are signs in the vending areas that proceeds from the machines go to that state's Department For The Blind (or whatever it's called.)
But they don't see a penny from me (pun intended) because I refuse to pay inflated prices for a bottle or can of pop or a candy bar.
The prices at both Iowa and Minnesota rest areas are quite reasonable.
Furthermore, god forbid we help people with a major disability. :rolleyes:
I'm not against helping them, obviously, but paying $2.50 for a 20-oz. pop that I can get a lot cheaper elsewhere? Nope.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on November 13, 2019, 03:09:41 PM
IMO rest areas should only be service plazas if they're located in an area without services for miles around and they would enhance driver safety.
I think most rest areas will become supercharger stations anyways.
The private sector is already getting into that. Sheetz is installing Tesla charging stations at a lot of its locations.
Quote from: hbelkins on November 13, 2019, 04:46:29 PM
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on November 12, 2019, 04:25:44 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 12, 2019, 04:19:54 PM
Guess we'll see how good the blind lobby is. At just about every rest area I've seen in any state, there are signs in the vending areas that proceeds from the machines go to that state's Department For The Blind (or whatever it's called.)
But they don't see a penny from me (pun intended) because I refuse to pay inflated prices for a bottle or can of pop or a candy bar.
The prices at both Iowa and Minnesota rest areas are quite reasonable.
Furthermore, god forbid we help people with a major disability. :rolleyes:
I'm not against helping them, obviously, but paying $2.50 for a 20-oz. pop that I can get a lot cheaper elsewhere? Nope.
Many convenience stores are selling them at $1.99 - $2.09 now, so at $2.50 it's not really that much higher. My experience along I-95 shows that, in many cases, it was actually cheaper at $2 (with tax included) than getting a bottle off the highway, where tax would've added another 12 - 14 cents to the price.
Quote
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on November 13, 2019, 03:09:41 PM
IMO rest areas should only be service plazas if they're located in an area without services for miles around and they would enhance driver safety.
I think most rest areas will become supercharger stations anyways.
The private sector is already getting into that. Sheetz is installing Tesla charging stations at a lot of its locations.
To be technical, Tesla rents space from these stores. For examples near me: They are adding about a dozen stations at a mall off of NJ 42, and have added a few chargers to a Wawa off Exit 18 of I-295 in NJ. They look for locations just off highways that are convenient to Telsa travelers to pull off for a few minutes to charge up while giving the travelers the opportunity to hit the bathroom or grab a meal/snack. Since these parking spots exist usually to satisfy regulations regarding the number of spots needed based on the size of the building, the spots generally go unused anyway. The stores, and the town/county, is usually fine going along with the addition of the charging stations, and brings in a little extra income to the companies as well.
Quote from: GaryV on November 13, 2019, 03:37:42 PM
So if the free marketplace does not think there will be enough customers along 60 miles of road to open a business, who will run the business at the service area? Will the State supplement the income, give them incredible tax incentives, or what? Cuz you know if a private enterprise can't make money, the State sure isn't going to make money.
Actually I was talking about just the opposite. I really don't think there are places, at least east of the Mississippi, where there are not services for as much as 60 miles. I was thinking of places where the prosperity and growth are such that there are not good rural/suburban exits where one can do an easy off/easy on without getting tied up in, and tying up, local traffic on the side road.
I like the idea of travel plazas, although that would require a law change, unless you connect them to an external roadway, and just call it an exit.
One thing I would like to see, is Rest Areas universally getting Charging Stations. Most of them already have power, so it should be a doddle to either contract with a known company for services, or have the DOT purchase and install their own, and provide charging for free, or a nominal fee. It would easily help to close the gaps in current charging coverage, especially fast charging, and help to reduce range anxiety, making the vehicles more appealing.
Quote from: Beltway on November 12, 2019, 05:51:19 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 12, 2019, 05:42:23 PM
The commercialization of rest areas is now frowned upon as it is looked upon as competing with local businesses. NY got into some warm water with its Taste of NY stores, but somehow got out of it.
The early Interstate era had relatively sparse services along the interchanges, back when the highways were still relatively new. Today it is massive, most rural Interstates have tons of businesses all along the route.
If the Interstate (or the Turnpike/U.S. route routing it was assigned to) was completed before 1980. Stretches that opened later have had a much lower success rate in attracting businesses along the route. This goes new for non-Interstate limited access portions as well.
Quote from: GCrites80s on November 14, 2019, 10:20:06 PM
Quote from: Beltway on November 12, 2019, 05:51:19 PM
The early Interstate era had relatively sparse services along the interchanges, back when the highways were still relatively new. Today it is massive, most rural Interstates have tons of businesses all along the route.
If the Interstate (or the Turnpike/U.S. route routing it was assigned to) was completed before 1980. Stretches that opened later have had a much lower success rate in attracting businesses along the route. This goes new for non-Interstate limited access portions as well.
98% of the mainline Interstate mileage was completed by 1980.
Some highway that was completed 10 or 20 years ago would have had less time overall to attract businesses along the route.
When the early Interstates and other limited-access highways opened they didn't need more than a few years to attract significant business investment. They didn't sit there for 15-20 years with nothing or one thing at the exits that were at least remotely close to people or a major crossroad like today's new highways do. Obviously a lot of those old stone-clad motels, Googie gas stations, Stuckey's, and sit-down restaurants are gone now so it's harder to tell.
I don't find GCrites' argument to hold much water. I am thinking of I-79, which my family drove multiple times from Morgantown to Charleston. It has definitely built up over time, at least on the northern half.
While there are notable exceptions, I'm confident that an analysis of lane-miles vs. economic development dollars adjusted for inflation would highly favor road expansions performed before 1980 on a nationwide basis.
The newest portion of I-95 in Virginia, an upgrade of previous 4-lane non-limited-access US-301 between Emporia and Petersburg was completed in the 1980s, and despite most of the crossroads widening out to 4-lanes at the interchanges in anticipation for growth, only the interchange at Exit 33 - VA-602 - has seen any real developments. The rest are empty, surrounded by farmland and forest as they were when it was built.
I haven't really thought about which "side" I'm on for this, but as a born and bred New Jerseyan, the whole idea of non-commercialized rest areas is so foreign to me. Whenever I travel out of state and invariably end up looking for a rest area, I'm always shocked by the existence of these tiny little buildings with maybe a vending machine off of a major highway. Maybe I'm jus spoiled. But I almost feel... safer at a big, commercialized, populated service plaza than those little pull offs I stopped at in Virginia, for instance. And while we laugh about the cost of Turnpike gas in Jersey, at least shmucks like me who push it down to fumes sometimes are not likely to run out of gas on the turnpike, whereas I can see that being an issue on giant interstates through huge rural areas.
Quote from: GCrites80s on November 14, 2019, 11:07:31 PM
While there are notable exceptions, I'm confident that an analysis of lane-miles vs. economic development dollars adjusted for inflation would highly favor road expansions performed before 1980 on a nationwide basis.
You made the assertion; show us the data.
I don't think the analysis has been performed on a nationwide basis. Unfortunately it would require someone with greater resources than me. A bunch of anecdotes will not suffice since for every Southern highway expansion in popular areas such as Georgia, the Carolinas and Florida that people point to there are tons of Appalachian and Midwestern ones that didn't help.
Quote from: Rothman on November 14, 2019, 10:55:17 PM
I don't find GCrites' argument to hold much water. I am thinking of I-79, which my family drove multiple times from Morgantown to Charleston. It has definitely built up over time, at least on the northern half.
Still pretty desolate between Elkview and Flatwoods. And also between Flatwoods and Weston. From Weston northward, there's quite a bit, but you're going through three decent-sized towns (Clarksburg, Fairmont, and Morgantown).
Quote from: J3ebrules on November 14, 2019, 11:20:43 PM
I haven't really thought about which "side" I'm on for this, but as a born and bred New Jerseyan, the whole idea of non-commercialized rest areas is so foreign to me. Whenever I travel out of state and invariably end up looking for a rest area, I'm always shocked by the existence of these tiny little buildings with maybe a vending machine off of a major highway. Maybe I'm jus spoiled. But I almost feel... safer at a big, commercialized, populated service plaza than those little pull offs I stopped at in Virginia, for instance. And while we laugh about the cost of Turnpike gas in Jersey, at least shmucks like me who push it down to fumes sometimes are not likely to run out of gas on the turnpike, whereas I can see that being an issue on giant interstates through huge rural areas.
That's true on the toll roads, but the free interstates have standard rest areas instead of service places (or had; I know Jersey closed a lot of their rest areas after the governor got caught trolling for boyfriends at one).
Quote from: hbelkins on November 14, 2019, 11:40:49 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 14, 2019, 10:55:17 PM
I don't find GCrites' argument to hold much water. I am thinking of I-79, which my family drove multiple times from Morgantown to Charleston. It has definitely built up over time, at least on the northern half.
Quote from: J3ebrules on November 14, 2019, 11:20:43 PM
I haven't really thought about which "side" I'm on for this, but as a born and bred New Jerseyan, the whole idea of non-commercialized rest areas is so foreign to me. Whenever I travel out of state and invariably end up looking for a rest area, I'm always shocked by the existence of these tiny little buildings with maybe a vending machine off of a major highway. Maybe I'm jus spoiled. But I almost feel... safer at a big, commercialized, populated service plaza than those little pull offs I stopped at in Virginia, for instance. And while we laugh about the cost of Turnpike gas in Jersey, at least shmucks like me who push it down to fumes sometimes are not likely to run out of gas on the turnpike, whereas I can see that being an issue on giant interstates through huge rural areas.
That's true on the toll roads, but the free interstates have standard rest areas instead of service places (or had; I know Jersey closed a lot of their rest areas after the governor got caught trolling for boyfriends at one).
Wait what? If you're talking about McGreevy, he helped himself to his unpaid interns... a lot of them closed for remodeling because they were from the 50's and 60's, a few for getting simply insufficient traffic (the two on the Turnpike Extension, but that was in the 90's), and then the two on I295. And as for the latter, I think you're onto something with thinking about toll roads versus free interstates, although I can't figure out how that would matter. The turnpike's tolls pay for its own maintenance, policing, and emergency services. You think because they're owned by the state and don't get federal funds, so they have more leeway to contract with private companies, maybe?
Quote from: sprjus4 on November 14, 2019, 11:12:54 PM
The newest portion of I-95 in Virginia, an upgrade of previous 4-lane non-limited-access US-301 between Emporia and Petersburg was completed in the 1980s, and despite most of the crossroads widening out to 4-lanes at the interchanges in anticipation for growth, only the interchange at Exit 33 - VA-602 - has seen any real developments. The rest are empty, surrounded by farmland and forest as they were when it was built.
The topic was services ... mainly fuel, and of the 8 interchanges on that 28-mile section, the only two that don't have any are at VA-645 Exit 24 and US-301 Exit 17. And I think all of the stations have at least some convenience store products such as packaged food items.
Only 3 of the crossroads widen out to 4 lanes and briefly. That segment goes thru some very rural areas, and Sussex County has only about 11,300 population today and has 493 square miles.
That's why it is the role of the public sector to provide restroom, water, vending and
truck parking facilities to areas that the private sector sees no opportunity for profit -- through rest areas.
Quote from: J3ebrules on November 14, 2019, 11:20:43 PM
I haven't really thought about which "side" I'm on for this, but as a born and bred New Jerseyan, the whole idea of non-commercialized rest areas is so foreign to me. Whenever I travel out of state and invariably end up looking for a rest area, I'm always shocked by the existence of these tiny little buildings with maybe a vending machine off of a major highway. Maybe I'm jus spoiled. But I almost feel... safer at a big, commercialized, populated service plaza than those little pull offs I stopped at in Virginia, for instance. And while we laugh about the cost of Turnpike gas in Jersey, at least shmucks like me who push it down to fumes sometimes are not likely to run out of gas on the turnpike, whereas I can see that being an issue on giant interstates through huge rural areas.
Being an ex-Long Islander, I was pretty envious of those tiny little buildings with vending machines and actual restrooms off of major highways the first time I saw them, let alone the huge commercialized rest areas on the New Jersey Turnpike and other toll roads that you're so used to. We may have had gas stations in the medians on the parkways but they were for cars only. On roads like the Long Island Expressway, Sunrise Highway, and even NY 24, all we had were those pull-off areas, occasionally with picnic tables and public grilles. After this, I spent much of my youth wondering why we can't have anything like what you have on Long Island... or even the ones they had on I-95 south of DC.
Quote from: GCrites80s on November 14, 2019, 11:07:31 PM
While there are notable exceptions, I'm confident that an analysis of lane-miles vs. economic development dollars adjusted for inflation would highly favor road expansions performed before 1980 on a nationwide basis.
Can easily be a reverse dependence. Routes with higher demand potential were built first and attracted more business, while less premium ones have less funding priority and less attractiveness.
Quote from: hbelkins on November 14, 2019, 11:40:49 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 14, 2019, 10:55:17 PM
I don't find GCrites' argument to hold much water. I am thinking of I-79, which my family drove multiple times from Morgantown to Charleston. It has definitely built up over time, at least on the northern half.
Still pretty desolate between Elkview and Flatwoods. And also between Flatwoods and Weston. From Weston northward, there's quite a bit, but you're going through three decent-sized towns (Clarksburg, Fairmont, and Morgantown).
Sure, but those decent-sized towns were not so decent-sized in the 1980s, at least within view of I-79. The development, especially around Clarksburg and Fairmont, has been very, very noticeable and attributable to the building of I-79.
I don't think it was ever envisioned that every single exit along the interstates would see development. Some interchanges were built to accept additional traffic, but to think that there would be some sort of metro area at every interchange is well beyond what was ever projected.
Quote from: J3ebrules on November 14, 2019, 11:48:43 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 14, 2019, 11:40:49 PM
Quote from: J3ebrules on November 14, 2019, 11:20:43 PM
I haven't really thought about which "side" I'm on for this, but as a born and bred New Jerseyan, the whole idea of non-commercialized rest areas is so foreign to me. Whenever I travel out of state and invariably end up looking for a rest area, I'm always shocked by the existence of these tiny little buildings with maybe a vending machine off of a major highway. Maybe I'm jus spoiled. But I almost feel... safer at a big, commercialized, populated service plaza than those little pull offs I stopped at in Virginia, for instance. And while we laugh about the cost of Turnpike gas in Jersey, at least shmucks like me who push it down to fumes sometimes are not likely to run out of gas on the turnpike, whereas I can see that being an issue on giant interstates through huge rural areas.
That's true on the toll roads, but the free interstates have standard rest areas instead of service places (or had; I know Jersey closed a lot of their rest areas after the governor got caught trolling for boyfriends at one).
Wait what? If you're talking about McGreevy, he helped himself to his unpaid interns... a lot of them closed for remodeling because they were from the 50's and 60's, a few for getting simply insufficient traffic (the two on the Turnpike Extension, but that was in the 90's), and then the two on I295. And as for the latter, I think you're onto something with thinking about toll roads versus free interstates, although I can't figure out how that would matter. The turnpike's tolls pay for its own maintenance, policing, and emergency services. You think because they're owned by the state and don't get federal funds, so they have more leeway to contract with private companies, maybe?
You're confusing the two.
Rest Areas are literally that - a place to rest for a few minutes. They have bathrooms, maybe a tourist assistance area, and a few vending machines.
You're mostly referring to Service Plazas, which have gas, food, a service station to repair your vehicle, and other things found in a rest area.
No governor had anything to do with the service plazas on the NJ Turnpike. That's up to the NJTA to decide what they wanted opened or closed.
I'm pretty sure McGreevey was caught with a boyfriend on the beach in Cape May, not lurking around the rest areas. Their closure had nothing to do with his sexual preferences.
Basically, country-wide, if a service plaza existed before the Interstate Highway system was created, they were allowed to remain. Connecticut is a perfect example of this. So is Delaware and Maryland, where one can easily get to their service plazas and exit the roadway without paying a toll.
I'm a life-long NJ resident, and not surprised whatsoever when I only encounter rest areas in other states.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 15, 2019, 08:14:46 AM
I don't think it was ever envisioned that every single exit along the interstates would see development. Some interchanges were built to accept additional traffic, but to think that there would be some sort of metro area at every interchange is well beyond what was ever projected.
I would think about I-65 between Chicago and Indy. While no large metro areas, density of travel plazas at exits is impressive... I assume supply and demand are at work.
Quote from: kalvado on November 15, 2019, 03:01:04 AM
Quote from: GCrites80s on November 14, 2019, 11:07:31 PM
While there are notable exceptions, I'm confident that an analysis of lane-miles vs. economic development dollars adjusted for inflation would highly favor road expansions performed before 1980 on a nationwide basis.
Can easily be a reverse dependence. Routes with higher demand potential were built first and attracted more business, while less premium ones have less funding priority and less attractiveness.
Yes. The controls that were established early were the important ones and, for the most part, continue to be the important ones today.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 15, 2019, 08:14:46 AMRest Areas are literally that - a place to rest for a few minutes. They have bathrooms, maybe a tourist assistance area, and a few vending machines.
What you're describing is more of a state's Welcome Centers that are typically located in Rest Areas. I'm not sure of NJ, but many Rest Areas in
other states at least in MA are just simply just a parking lot with maybe a picnic table or two and typically don't have sanitary facilities (not even porta-johns).
This bare-bones Rest Area (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sturbridge,+MA/@42.0424249,-72.1246792,549m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89e6a24d2dc6b9c7:0xcedbfdbb3b3eb8a7!8m2!3d42.1084122!4d-72.0787059) along I-84 eastbound in Sturbridge, MA is signed as both a Picnic Area as well as a Rest Area.
In addition to Service Plazas, the PA Turnpike (at least the East-West Turnpike) used to have
pull-off areas with a picnic table/bench or two. Those have since been converted to Emergency Stopping/Pull-Off spots.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 15, 2019, 08:14:46 AMI'm pretty sure McGreevey was caught with a boyfriend on the beach in Cape May, not lurking around the rest areas. Their closure had nothing to do with his sexual preferences.
IIRC, those Rest Area closures occurred in 2003/during the McGreevey Administration due to funding issues. Such included the infamous Howard Stern Rest Stop (dedicated in 1995) along I-295 northbound in Springfield Township, Burlington County..
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 15, 2019, 08:14:46 AMBasically, country-wide, if a service plaza existed before the Interstate Highway system was created, they were allowed to remain.
In short,
grandfathered.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 15, 2019, 08:14:46 AMConnecticut is a perfect example of this. So is Delaware and Maryland, where one can easily get to their service plazas and exit the roadway without paying a toll.
In MA, such grandfathering wasn't just for toll roads that received Interstate designations either from the get-go or years later; several free highways in MA had Service Areas/Plazas that were allowed to stay even after such received Interstate designations years later. Two of such that are still remaining (more on that below) are the ones along the portion of MA 128 that's now part of I-95 in Newton & Lexington.
However, if such highway was widened and overhauled; the service plazas were usually eliminated. The mid-70s overhaul of I-95 between Topsfield & Newburyport (originally constructed as Relocated US 1 in the 1950s) eliminated all Rest Areas as well as Service Areas. Note: the Weigh Stations between the MA 97/Exit 53 & MA 133/Exit 54 interchanges were added during the 1980s. When the Southeast Expressway, originally built in the 1950s & designated as I-93 since 1975, underwent a full-blown overhaul during the mid-80s; the Service Plaza in Braintree, just north of the
Split that included a Howard Johnson's, was torn down.
To my knowledge, two free non-Interstate highways in eastern MA still have Service Areas/Plazas: MA 24 has two of them, one on each side, at the I-495 interchange in Bridgewater and MA 128 northbound in Beverly just beyond Exit 19 (Sohier Rd./Brimbal Ave.) has one as well.
Quote from: PHLBOS on November 15, 2019, 11:02:32 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 15, 2019, 08:14:46 AMRest Areas are literally that - a place to rest for a few minutes. They have bathrooms, maybe a tourist assistance area, and a few vending machines.
What you're describing is more of a state's Welcome Centers that are typically located in Rest Areas. I'm not sure of NJ, but many Rest Areas in other states are just simply just a parking lot with maybe a picnic table or two and typically don't have sanitary facilities (not even porta-johns).
This bare-bones Rest Area (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sturbridge,+MA/@42.0424249,-72.1246792,549m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89e6a24d2dc6b9c7:0xcedbfdbb3b3eb8a7!8m2!3d42.1084122!4d-72.0787059) along I-84 eastbound in Sturbridge, MA is signed as both a Picnic Area as well as a Rest Area.
Actually, that's quite common for a rest area west of the Appalachians. You have restrooms, a parking area, some picnic tables, vending machines, and a bit of tourist information. A welcome center typically has a staff running it and far more tourist information. And, believe it or not, these are actually open 24/7, unlike in the Northeast, where I guess they expect you to use a port-a-potty after banker's hours.
Examples:
Illinois: https://goo.gl/maps/FwTfbNz7Ss865SUs5 Three Rivers westbound on I-80.
Indiana: https://goo.gl/maps/GrxAmJYPdk8sN19H8 & https://goo.gl/maps/zDzEug959UojjBw89 I-94 westbound, the hut off to the side is for the vending machines.
Wisconsin: https://goo.gl/maps/pSvWRzXDtG4tHECX8 Portage eastbound on I-90/94 (& I-39).
Michigan: https://goo.gl/maps/RntJWBGYfV6zb7e59 Galesburg, westbound on I-94.
Iowa: https://goo.gl/maps/jYLPNbPUCj9FG18V7 Davenport, I-80 westbound (not the welcome center - that's the next rest area
after I-280 merges in).
Missouri: https://goo.gl/maps/XcHUzMaN1QfZ21GB9 St. Clair, I-44.
Minnesota: https://goo.gl/maps/qpLMSFCFNDp138gGA Cass Lake, US-2.
Quote from: Brandon on November 15, 2019, 11:25:26 AMA welcome center typically has a staff running it and far more tourist information. And, believe it or not, these are actually open 24/7, unlike in the Northeast, where I guess they expect you to use a port-a-potty after banker's hours.
That debacle in CT has thankfully been rescinded; shortly after Lamont become Governor. At least the bathroom portion of the Welcome Centers are now open 24/7 again.
In Michigan, rest areas started as having pit toilets in an outhouse - just a little bit glorified from the one out back of the farmhouse with the moon cutout on the door. When I was a kid and we traveled to Florida in the winter, we tried our best to "hold it" until we reached Indiana.
Some time in the 70's or maybe still late 60's we started getting indoor bathrooms. The one pictured from Galesburg above looks like it's probably the 2nd or 3rd generation style of buildings. Often these will have a rack with tourist brochures.
Michigan Welcome Centers are located along 4 freeways near the IN and OH border with access and parking similar to rest areas, at the first exit on I-75 south in Sault Ste Marie, and along 3 US or State highways coming in from WS. There are also some "welcome" centers in the interior of the State - in the median of US-10/US-127 near Clare, along US-41 east of Marquette, and at both St Ignace (rest area type access) and Mackinaw City (exit). These have attended (daytime) desks where you can ask for information, and extensive racks of tourist info.
Edit: None of the centers have restaurants or gas stations.
Quote from: PHLBOS on November 15, 2019, 11:02:32 AM
To my knowledge, two free non-Interstate highways in eastern MA still have Service Areas/Plazas: MA 24 has two of them, one on each side, at the I-495 interchange in Bridgewater and MA 128 northbound in Beverly just beyond Exit 19 (Sohier Rd./Brimbal Ave.) has one as well.
There's also one on MA 3 around Plymouth.
Quote from: vdeane on November 15, 2019, 01:11:40 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on November 15, 2019, 11:02:32 AM
To my knowledge, two free non-Interstate highways in eastern MA still have Service Areas/Plazas: MA 24 has two of them, one on each side, at the I-495 interchange in Bridgewater and MA 128 northbound in Beverly just beyond Exit 19 (Sohier Rd./Brimbal Ave.) has one as well.
There's also one on MA 3 around Plymouth.
Within the Long Pond Road (Exit 5) interchange to be exact.
Quote from: PHLBOS on November 15, 2019, 11:02:32 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 15, 2019, 08:14:46 AMRest Areas are literally that - a place to rest for a few minutes. They have bathrooms, maybe a tourist assistance area, and a few vending machines.
What you're describing is more of a state's Welcome Centers that are typically located in Rest Areas. I'm not sure of NJ, but many Rest Areas in other states are just simply just a parking lot with maybe a picnic table or two and typically don't have sanitary facilities (not even porta-johns).
All up and down I-95 from Virginia to Florida - every rest area has actual bathrooms in buildings and vending machines. Many are Welcome Centers or more extensive than just empty buildings..
https://goo.gl/maps/btKX7bzECCjbyeJ89 brings you here... https://goo.gl/maps/oZFQ5k6gdKQD1a2A9
https://goo.gl/maps/EfHWmedi8pharfbx5 brings you here... https://goo.gl/maps/nGecvUV9ziYsHGi38
https://goo.gl/maps/oFtTH4SoEQWgK7Lg9 brings you here... https://goo.gl/maps/dskSHQ97MD5Xb6ra9
Quote from: roadman on November 15, 2019, 01:19:38 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 15, 2019, 01:11:40 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on November 15, 2019, 11:02:32 AM
To my knowledge, two free non-Interstate highways in eastern MA still have Service Areas/Plazas: MA 24 has two of them, one on each side, at the I-495 interchange in Bridgewater and MA 128 northbound in Beverly just beyond Exit 19 (Sohier Rd./Brimbal Ave.) has one as well.
There's also one on MA 3 around Plymouth.
Within the Long Pond Road (Exit 5) interchange to be exact.
Based on Historic Aerials (between 1995 & 1971), that one was constructed sometime during the early 1990s. The last time I was on that stretch of MA 3 was 1989 (a week prior to my job layoff) and that service area/plaza was not there back then. That's why I didn't remember/recall it. Placing such there makes sense to the summer gridlock of Cape-bound traffic.
Quote from: PHLBOS on November 15, 2019, 11:02:32 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 15, 2019, 08:14:46 AMRest Areas are literally that - a place to rest for a few minutes. They have bathrooms, maybe a tourist assistance area, and a few vending machines.
What you're describing is more of a state's Welcome Centers that are typically located in Rest Areas. I'm not sure of NJ, but many Rest Areas in other states at least in MA are just simply just a parking lot with maybe a picnic table or two and typically don't have sanitary facilities (not even porta-johns).
This bare-bones Rest Area (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sturbridge,+MA/@42.0424249,-72.1246792,549m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89e6a24d2dc6b9c7:0xcedbfdbb3b3eb8a7!8m2!3d42.1084122!4d-72.0787059) along I-84 eastbound in Sturbridge, MA is signed as both a Picnic Area as well as a Rest Area.
In addition to Service Plazas, the PA Turnpike (at least the East-West Turnpike) used to have pull-off areas with a picnic table/bench or two. Those have since been converted to Emergency Stopping/Pull-Off spots.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 15, 2019, 08:14:46 AMI'm pretty sure McGreevey was caught with a boyfriend on the beach in Cape May, not lurking around the rest areas. Their closure had nothing to do with his sexual preferences.
IIRC, those Rest Area closures occurred in 2003/during the McGreevey Administration due to funding issues. Such included the infamous Howard Stern Rest Stop (dedicated in 1995) along I-295 northbound in Springfield Township, Burlington County..
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 15, 2019, 08:14:46 AMBasically, country-wide, if a service plaza existed before the Interstate Highway system was created, they were allowed to remain.
In short, grandfathered.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 15, 2019, 08:14:46 AMConnecticut is a perfect example of this. So is Delaware and Maryland, where one can easily get to their service plazas and exit the roadway without paying a toll.
In MA, such grandfathering wasn't just for toll roads that received Interstate designations either from the get-go or years later; several free highways in MA had Service Areas/Plazas that were allowed to stay even after such received Interstate designations years later. Two of such that are still remaining (more on that below) are the ones along the portion of MA 128 that's now part of I-95 in Newton & Lexington.
However, if such highway was widened and overhauled; the service plazas were usually eliminated. The mid-70s overhaul of I-95 between Topsfield & Newburyport (originally constructed as Relocated US 1 in the 1950s) eliminated all Rest Areas as well as Service Areas. Note: the Weigh Stations between the MA 97/Exit 53 & MA 133/Exit 54 interchanges were added during the 1980s. When the Southeast Expressway, originally built in the 1950s & designated as I-93 since 1975, underwent a full-blown overhaul during the mid-80s; the Service Plaza in Braintree, just north of the Split that included a Howard Johnson's, was torn down.
To my knowledge, two free non-Interstate highways in eastern MA still have Service Areas/Plazas: MA 24 has two of them, one on each side, at the I-495 interchange in Bridgewater and MA 128 northbound in Beverly just beyond Exit 19 (Sohier Rd./Brimbal Ave.) has one as well.
I would also consider the service area at Exit 6 on the Mid-Cape Highway to be a service plaza. Its access isn't limited but its obvious that its there to serve travelers.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on November 15, 2019, 03:31:12 PMI would also consider the service area at Exit 6 on the Mid-Cape Highway to be a service plaza. Its access isn't limited but its obvious that its there to serve travelers.
That's actually the Cape Cod Chamber of Commerce office/headquarters; which is likely why access to it is not limited to just US 6/Mid-Cape Highway.
While such indeed offers traveler services; it's not either a state-run or toll-road agency-run service plaza. One could argue whether such counts as a
highway rest area/service plaza/area.
Quote from: Brandon on November 15, 2019, 11:25:26 AM
And, believe it or not, these are actually open 24/7, unlike in the Northeast, where I guess they expect you to use a port-a-potty after banker's hours.
It blows my mind that rest areas would actually close at all. What in the world? Highways have travelers at all hours, not just when it's convenient to be open.
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on November 16, 2019, 12:28:33 AM
Quote from: Brandon on November 15, 2019, 11:25:26 AM
And, believe it or not, these are actually open 24/7, unlike in the Northeast, where I guess they expect you to use a port-a-potty after banker's hours.
It blows my mind that rest areas would actually close at all. What in the world? Highways have travelers at all hours, not just when it's convenient to be open.
What I often find on the ones along I-95 from Florida to Virginia are that the rest areas and welcome centers are open 24/7, but the welcome centers are only open during "banker's hours" as Brandon puts it. The rest of the time, they close up their tourist info buildings, and you can simply use them like the other rest areas. At least that seems to be the deal in North Carolina.
US-301 in Maryland has a rest area facility in a fairly rural area with limited services, and the restrooms are only open until 5 pm. If you come after that, sucks to be you.
Should be 24/7 IMO. The whole situation with a welcome / visitors center only being open certain hours is fine, as long as the restrooms are 24/7.
Quote from: sprjus4 on November 16, 2019, 02:01:05 PM
US-301 in Maryland has a rest area facility in a fairly rural area with limited services, and the restrooms are only open until 5 pm. If you come after that, sucks to be you.
Should be 24/7 IMO. The whole situation with a welcome / visitors center only being open certain hours is fine, as long as the restrooms are 24/7.
Any outhouses there? I will gladly take that over not having anything.
Quote from: Beltway on November 16, 2019, 06:18:57 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on November 16, 2019, 02:01:05 PM
US-301 in Maryland has a rest area facility in a fairly rural area with limited services, and the restrooms are only open until 5 pm. If you come after that, sucks to be you.
Should be 24/7 IMO. The whole situation with a welcome / visitors center only being open certain hours is fine, as long as the restrooms are 24/7.
Any outhouses there? I will gladly take that over not having anything.
The one time I stopped there in the summer about 6 pm, there was nothing else. Ended up just continuing on and stopping in Grasonville. In an emergency, there's always the bush!
Quote from: sprjus4 on November 16, 2019, 06:26:58 PM
Quote from: Beltway on November 16, 2019, 06:18:57 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on November 16, 2019, 02:01:05 PM
US-301 in Maryland has a rest area facility in a fairly rural area with limited services, and the restrooms are only open until 5 pm. If you come after that, sucks to be you.
Should be 24/7 IMO. The whole situation with a welcome / visitors center only being open certain hours is fine, as long as the restrooms are 24/7.
Any outhouses there? I will gladly take that over not having anything.
The one time I stopped there in the summer about 6 pm, there was nothing else. Ended up just continuing on and stopping in Grasonville. In an emergency, there's always the bush!
True for #1 but #2 is more complicated, especially with winter temps.
Quote from: sprjus4 on November 16, 2019, 02:01:05 PM
US-301 in Maryland has a rest area facility in a fairly rural area with limited services, and the restrooms are only open until 5 pm. If you come after that, sucks to be you.
Should be 24/7 IMO. The whole situation with a welcome / visitors center only being open certain hours is fine, as long as the restrooms are 24/7.
Are you talking about this one?
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Bay_Country_Welcome_Center_(Maryland) (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Bay_Country_Welcome_Center_(Maryland))
Because the one near the Harry Nice bridge isn't so urban either.
You know, maybe I should request a geotag for that category.
Quote from: sprjus4 on November 16, 2019, 02:01:05 PM
US-301 in Maryland has a rest area facility in a fairly rural area with limited services, and the restrooms are only open until 5 pm. If you come after that, sucks to be you.
Similar setup in Emmitsburg on US 15, though there are services in that community, as well as across the state line in Gettysburg.
I miss the rest area on MA 116 just south of Sunderland Center. I believe it is still a parking area, but for authorized vehicles only.
Used to be marked with a rectangular blue sign with a long horizontal arrow pointing right on NB MA 116.
Quote from: D-Dey65 on November 16, 2019, 10:57:09 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on November 16, 2019, 02:01:05 PM
US-301 in Maryland has a rest area facility in a fairly rural area with limited services, and the restrooms are only open until 5 pm. If you come after that, sucks to be you.
Should be 24/7 IMO. The whole situation with a welcome / visitors center only being open certain hours is fine, as long as the restrooms are 24/7.
Are you talking about this one?
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Bay_Country_Welcome_Center_(Maryland) (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Bay_Country_Welcome_Center_(Maryland))
Because the one near the Harry Nice bridge isn't so urban either.
There are services on the other side of the Nice bridge in Virginia, including at least two Sheetz locations along US 301 not too far south of the Potomac.
I saw the new design proposal for the Southbound I-95 Welcome Center yesterday as I was driving home. It looks like a post-modern suburban house, and I've been told it was meant to appeal to RV owners who's houses are designed to contain their motorhomes. Should I post an image of the sign to imgur and post the link here?
Quote from: D-Dey65 on December 05, 2019, 11:07:17 PM
I saw the new design proposal for the Southbound I-95 Welcome Center yesterday as I was driving home. It looks like a post-modern suburban house, and I've been told it was meant to appeal to RV owners who's houses are designed to contain their motorhomes. Should I post an image of the sign to imgur and post the link here?
Where at on I-95?
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 06, 2019, 07:08:56 AM
Quote from: D-Dey65 on December 05, 2019, 11:07:17 PM
I saw the new design proposal for the Southbound I-95 Welcome Center yesterday as I was driving home. It looks like a post-modern suburban house, and I've been told it was meant to appeal to RV owners who's houses are designed to contain their motorhomes. Should I post an image of the sign to imgur and post the link here?
Where at on I-95?
Southbound in Dillon County.
So apparently that's in South Carolina. ??
Quote from: kphoger on December 06, 2019, 03:36:36 PM
So apparently that's in South Carolina. ??
I thought I mentioned that, and I see I didn't.
I don't see it on SCDOT's website:
https://www.scdot.org/projects/current-projects.aspx
But the contractor has it:
https://www.jefflewisaia.com/on-the-boards
https://www.jefflewisaia.com/on-the-boards?lightbox=dataItem-jls8solo
My favorite rest area in the US is the Sideling Hill rest area and welcome center on I-68:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sideling+Hill+Welcome+Center/@39.7167264,-78.2850477,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x89ca6aa5025c1cd7:0x25d5a10810e1c94a!8m2!3d39.7185926!4d-78.2808092
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on December 11, 2019, 12:37:15 PM
My favorite rest area in the US is the Sideling Hill rest area and welcome center on I-68:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sideling+Hill+Welcome+Center/@39.7167264,-78.2850477,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x89ca6aa5025c1cd7:0x25d5a10810e1c94a!8m2!3d39.7185926!4d-78.2808092
I need an excuse to go there before I die.
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on December 11, 2019, 12:37:15 PM
My favorite rest area in the US is the Sideling Hill rest area and welcome center on I-68:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sideling+Hill+Welcome+Center/@39.7167264,-78.2850477,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x89ca6aa5025c1cd7:0x25d5a10810e1c94a!8m2!3d39.7185926!4d-78.2808092
Wasn't this one closed for a while?
Quote from: GCrites80s on December 11, 2019, 08:30:54 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on December 11, 2019, 12:37:15 PM
My favorite rest area in the US is the Sideling Hill rest area and welcome center on I-68:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sideling+Hill+Welcome+Center/@39.7167264,-78.2850477,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x89ca6aa5025c1cd7:0x25d5a10810e1c94a!8m2!3d39.7185926!4d-78.2808092
Wasn't this one closed for a while?
The museum in the westbound rest stop closed several years ago. The entire building was also closed for a few years but has since been partially reopened. The rest stop itself has never been closed, to my knowledge.