I've noticed now that almost all states save for a couple have shifted to mileage-based exits for any number of reasons including travel distance calculation, emergency services, spacing for future exits, clarity when exits might disappear (Massachusetts and its NEXT EXIT 31 signs, etc.), and sign replacement.
So, why not take the next step and do something similar for rest areas, parking areas, and number them by mileage? Certainly in states with multiple rest areas on the same interstate, it requires knowing the name of the rest area or service area or plaza to specify where one is, or how far the location is from one's current location.
So, what would such exit gore signage and advance notification look like? My own thought has always been that instead of EXIT NN (which implies leaving the freeway) that these special areas should have "area tabs" AREA NN (white text on blue sign) and [REST|SERVICE|etc.] AREA NN gore signs for these; SIDE NN for weigh stations, agriculture customs, etc. Interested in thoughts on this....
Utah used to number all of its rest areas, ports of entry, view areas, etc. Most of those numbers were removed sometime in the mid-2000s, but a few still stand, such as this one on I-80:
(https://i.imgur.com/pGxEam9.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/phCx2x2.jpg)
Arizona does this at its Sunset Point rest area off I-17 (Exit 252). NB signage, then SB signage:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.1875693,-112.1328324,3a,75y,25.06h,93.84t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIJOaIK4GT6BMRr4w6jgHWg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.1983167,-112.1289334,3a,75y,231.4h,77.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svxq2Z2Pznk2VQRgVO26vzA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Ohio Turnpike for the east and west gate tolls. Toll Plaza 2, and Toll Plaza 239.
Thank you all for showing some examples of this! Sure makes sense then for motorist benefit to get this to the MUTCD-level. Massachusetts for example with its inconsistent use of Parking Area and Rest Area, sure could use some standardization including with Service Plazas now that MassDOT was created from the remains of Mass Pike and Mass Highway... Hard to know what has a bathroom and what doesn't, etc.
Washington does this in a sense. They're not all signed, and they're more like reference markers rather than actually meant for guidance, but at least some rest areas have little signs with what their exit number would be.
Bow, Washington
https://maps.app.goo.gl/2FSbqfsjXPiMopZt6
MA actually had sequential numbers on the toll barriers on the MassPike. That's why I-95 (14/15) and Allston/Brighton (18/20) have different numbers going each way. The NJ Turnpike does something similar at the endpoints.
I've seen this done with turnarounds in NY. Many are mile-based (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9591316,-76.935979,3a,50y,242.6h,82.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s37B-MPW5b2wtTHfuiw7H0g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) (especially on the Thruway), but I-81 has some sequential (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2683529,-76.1310548,3a,51.1y,326.18h,88.84t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sT2Tobf6MzZH9ZyWL4zAK9A!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DT2Tobf6MzZH9ZyWL4zAK9A%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D129.91692%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656) (numbered from the Onondaga/Oswego County line; south of there uses the same mile-based signage as the Thruway) ones!
Quote from: vdeane on November 14, 2019, 01:15:04 PM
MA actually had sequential numbers on the toll barriers on the MassPike. That's why I-95 (14/15) and Allston/Brighton (18/20) have different numbers going each way. The NJ Turnpike does something similar at the endpoints.
The mainline barrier plaza at Weston was designated Exit 15 principally for accounting purposes. Same with Allston-Brighton, where 18 denoted the eastbound exit plaza, 19 the mainline barrier plaza, and 20 the westbound exit plaza.
Quote from: vdeane on November 14, 2019, 01:15:04 PM
MA actually had sequential numbers on the toll barriers on the MassPike. That's why I-95 (14/15) and Allston/Brighton (18/20) have different numbers going each way. The NJ Turnpike does something similar at the endpoints.
I've seen this done with turnarounds in NY. Many are mile-based (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9591316,-76.935979,3a,50y,242.6h,82.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s37B-MPW5b2wtTHfuiw7H0g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) (especially on the Thruway), but I-81 has some sequential (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2683529,-76.1310548,3a,51.1y,326.18h,88.84t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sT2Tobf6MzZH9ZyWL4zAK9A!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DT2Tobf6MzZH9ZyWL4zAK9A%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D129.91692%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656) (numbered from the Onondaga/Oswego County line; south of there uses the same mile-based signage as the Thruway) ones!
Interesting about the sequential turnarounds on I-81 north of Syracuse, there's one north of Exit 34 marked "9A". That crossover was added in the mid 1970s when I-81 was under construction and all traffic had been moved over to the SB lanes (two way traffic). It provided the on ramp for NB traffic. The crossovers were numbered decades after that crossover was built but it still was marked with a "9A" designation.
Quote from: sturmde on November 13, 2019, 03:00:03 PM
So, why not take the next step and do something similar for rest areas, parking areas, and number them by mileage? Certainly in states with multiple rest areas on the same interstate, it requires knowing the name of the rest area or service area or plaza to specify where one is, or how far the location is from one's current location.
ISTM there is very little need for anyone in the general public to specify which rest area, etc. Most people care about how far it'll be to the next one. Some states are better at that than others, but assigning "exit" numbers isn't needed for that purpose. One can always look for the sign saying how long it'll be to the next area, and the current milemarker or mile-based exit number, and add or subtract the first from the second as appropriate, if you want to do a countdown for your next pee break. (Assuming, of course, that the "next area" isn't closed for construction, etc. -- something often not mentioned in "next area" signs, especially in jurisdictions that selectively close areas in the winter to turn off the heat and water.)
Seems this is a solution in search of a problem.
Quote from: oscar on November 15, 2019, 01:46:39 PM
Quote from: sturmde on November 13, 2019, 03:00:03 PM
So, why not take the next step and do something similar for rest areas, parking areas, and number them by mileage? Certainly in states with multiple rest areas on the same interstate, it requires knowing the name of the rest area or service area or plaza to specify where one is, or how far the location is from one's current location.
ISTM there is very little need for anyone in the general public to specify which rest area, etc. Most people care about how far it'll be to the next one. Some states are better at that than others, but assigning "exit" numbers isn't needed for that purpose. One can always look for the sign saying how long it'll be to the next area, and the current milemarker or mile-based exit number, and add or subtract the first from the second as appropriate, if you want to do a countdown for your next pee break. (Assuming, of course, that the "next area" isn't closed for construction, etc. -- something often not mentioned in "next area" signs, especially in jurisdictions that selectively close areas in the winter to turn off the heat and water.)
Seems this is a solution in search of a problem.
Agreed. "Rest Area 1 Mile" and "Next Rest Area 37 Miles" seems to be enough. When you get to the rest area if you need to figure out where you're at most of them have a map or a sign.
Quote from: oscar on November 15, 2019, 01:46:39 PM
...
Seems this is a solution in search of a problem.
No, it's an observation of an inconsistency from state to state (as others have now shown with examples) that could stand to have a recommended common method of signing in the MUTCD. Viz. Massachusetts with Parking Areas and Welcome Centers and Rest Areas and Service Plaza... guess which ones have a bathroom? Or, call 911 and not be able to tell an emergency operator "which" one you're calling from. Or determining where on the Maine Turnpike the "Hotel & Conf. Center" actually is. It's a problem in search of a recommendation in the MUTCD.
Quote from: sturmde on November 15, 2019, 01:51:23 PM
Quote from: oscar on November 15, 2019, 01:46:39 PM
...
Seems this is a solution in search of a problem.
No, it's an observation of an inconsistency from state to state (as others have now shown with examples) that could stand to have a recommended common method of signing in the MUTCD. Viz. Massachusetts with Parking Areas and Welcome Centers and Rest Areas and Service Plaza... guess which ones have a bathroom? Or, call 911 and not be able to tell an emergency operator "which" one you're calling from. Or determining where on the Maine Turnpike the "Hotel & Conf. Center" actually is. It's a problem in search of a recommendation in the MUTCD.
That recommendation already exists. From the 2009 MUTCD:
Section 2I.05 Rest Area and Other Roadside Area SignsStandard:
Rest Area signs (see Figure 2I-5) shall have a retroreflective white legend and border on a blue background.
Signs that include the legend REST AREA shall be used only where parking and restroom facilities
are available.Guidance:
A roadside area that does not contain restroom facilities should be signed to indicate the major road user
service that is provided. For example, the sign legends for an area with only parking should use the words
PARKING AREA instead of REST AREA. The sign legends for an area with only picnic tables and parking
should use words such as PICNIC AREA, ROADSIDE TABLE, or ROADSIDE PARK instead of REST AREA.
Rest areas that have tourist information and welcome centers should be signed as discussed in Section 2I.08.
Scenic area signing should be consistent with that provided for rest areas, except that the legends should use
words such as SCENIC AREA, SCENIC VIEW, or SCENIC OVERLOOK instead of REST AREA.
If a rest area or other roadside area is provided on a conventional road, a D5-1 and/or D5-1b sign should be
installed in advance of the rest area or other roadside area to permit the driver to reduce speed in preparation for
leaving the highway. A D5-5 sign (or a D5-2 sign if an exit ramp is provided) should be installed at the turnoff
point where the driver needs to leave the highway to access the rest area or other roadside area.
If a rest area or other roadside area is provided on a freeway or expressway, a D5-1 sign should be placed
1 mile and/or 2 miles in advance of the rest area.
Standard:
A D5-2 sign shall be placed at the rest area or other roadside area exit gore.
^ That recommendation does not seem to require or prohibit the designation of exit numbers for freeway/expressway rest areas. Not something for which uniformity is required (or even useful IMO), especially when some freeways and expressways don't have exit numbers.
I was responding to this comment
QuoteViz. Massachusetts with Parking Areas and Welcome Centers and Rest Areas and Service Plaza... guess which ones have a bathroom?
Quote from: sturmde on November 13, 2019, 03:00:03 PM
So, what would such exit gore signage and advance notification look like? My own thought has always been that instead of EXIT NN (which implies leaving the freeway) that these special areas should have "area tabs" AREA NN (white text on blue sign) and [REST|SERVICE|etc.] AREA NN gore signs for these; SIDE NN for weigh stations, agriculture customs, etc. Interested in thoughts on this....
I think you're on to something here. I've often thought it would be beneficial from a trip-planning perspective to know exactly where a rest area is, in precisely the same way it works with exits, and this would help in that regard. Probably the only thing against it is that rest areas are more or less interchangeable with one another and so it's not usually necessary to go to a specific one, like it is with exits, but I think that's really only a minor point against the idea.
I have no problem with [EXIT ##]. You are, after all, exiting the mainline of the highway.
Quote from: kphoger on November 18, 2019, 03:47:26 PM
I have no problem with [EXIT ##]. You are, after all, exiting the mainline of the highway.
But at the vast majority of rest areas, you have no choice but to re-enter. “Exit” implies leaving the freeway for good.
Quote from: US 89 on November 18, 2019, 03:50:23 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 18, 2019, 03:47:26 PM
I have no problem with [EXIT ##]. You are, after all, exiting the mainline of the highway.
But at the vast majority of rest areas, you have no choice but to re-enter. "Exit" implies leaving the freeway for good.
It doesn't imply that to me.
Exit 880 on I-10 West, Texas Travel Information Center (https://www.google.com/maps/@30.1244925,-93.7081383,3a,48.4y,277.91h,88.15t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svNQmstDZ40nrVMjA1H5KAQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
I think it's the highest exit number in the United States as well.
Exit #502
I-35 Southbound
Rest Area / Texas Travel Info Center
(https://goo.gl/maps/LvSqV4PKrhZSq7jN7)
Given examples of Exits that don't Exit... One could see that it is a means of exiting the flow of traffic. In that regard it's an exit.
.
But, that's exactly why I wasn't proposing [EXIT ##], but a new version for areas of all types that are sidings, not vehicular exits completely from the ongoing route. And that proposal is [AREA ##] .
.
The only downside, is that [AREA 51] tabs and gore signs would never survive! They'd all have to be [AREA 50.99] :D
All the Rest Areas on I-70 in Colorado WEST of Denver have exit numbers, as they are technically all off the interstate and shared by both directions. However the Scenic View and Parking Area ramps are not.